Question/Query

[Lomcovack]

Can I have some feed back.

I am on a route from A-B on an IFR flight plan. At a FL that takes me above class D airspace I am recieving a RIS from this class D airspace radar.

Due to being bumped about decide to descend which takes me through the class D airspace.

Rt requesting descent.

Cleared for descent.

During descent after just entering the class D airspace controller asks if I would like a clearance through the airspace I have just entered.

Yes please.

Now I assume by the letter of the law I should of asked for clearance through the class D airspace at the same time as requesting the descent.

I assumed that as I had a RIS and informed the controller of the route and requested descent, that as the descent request was cleared. I had clearance through the zone.

As usual did I assume too much !!

Many thanks

[discountinvestigator]

What airspace were you in at the higher level?

How do you know that the RIS controller is the same as the Class D airspace controller, or do you mean the same ATC centre/approach unit etc?

Were you radar identified?

Were you commercial or private?

Sorry, but the answers will help solve the original question!

[Lomcovack]

Discount investigator

Class G

Dont know freq passed from previous RIS

Yes radar identified

Private would it make a difference

[spekesoftly]

Did your request for descent specify a new level, and/or could the controller have thought that you were simply descending to a lower level that was still above the Class D CAS ?

[Lomcovack]

No requested descent to specific altitude and recieved clearence to descend to new altitude.

[ATCO Two]

How can descent clearance be given in Class G airspace?

[Inverted81]

Neither wrong nor right i fear.
Ok if it were to happen to me in my class D zone (with a top FL100), if you were VFR i would give "no known traffic to effect the descent (say) alt5000' cleared to transit the zone VFR not above etc etc.." If you requested a specific level then i would then assume that you would like to transit.

if you were IFR on a RIS, then still no difference to the above really.

Overall not a real issue. :rolleyes:

[Chilli Monster]

Slack controlling.

ATCO should have:

A) informed you of the upper limit of CAS and given you a "not below (CAS upper level)" instruction; or

B) ascertained what level you were likely to descend to and issued a clearance accordingly.

Admittedly you shouldn't have entered CAS without a clearance, but you weren't helped by the lack of thought from the person on the ground.

[Odi]

I'm with Chilli on this one.
"Nothing known to affect descent to remain clear of CAS (or level restriction if more appropriate)"
or
"Nothing known to affect descent cleared to enter CAS etc etc"
Odi

[Lomcovack]

So I assumed correctly when given descent that i had clearence but would have been better asking for clearance into CAS at the same time as the descent request ? to avoid any confusion.

pedantic I know, but trying to learn whats wrong and whats right in the practical sense is some times harder than what is wrong from right in the book.

[Chilli Monster]

So I assumed correctly when given descent that i had clearence

Eh? How do you work that one out?

Rule 1 in aviation - assume nothing!

You were in the right up to the point where you entered CAS. Class 'G', you can do what you wish.

However, you didn't hear the magical words "Cleared to enter Controlled Airspace" - you were, technically, BOTH in the wrong. The ATCO however more so due to causing the uncertainty by his shoddy use (or the lack of) of phraseology.

[Lomcovack]

Understood and point taken,

thanks