Adam Air B737 Heavy Landing

[PK-KAR]

Another accident/incident today involving Adam Air, reported hard/baulked landing at Surabaya.
Runway was blocked, airport closed, several injuries including pax trapped in the aircraft. Conflicting reports as to the extent of the damage.
Aircraft has been towed to Merpati Maintenance Center.

No matter how many accidents/incidents/writeoffs/loss of life, if they don't change, this will continue unfortunately. I guess they'll have to lower their lowest fares again now!

PK-KAR

[PK-KAR]

OK, airframe bent behind emergency exit, by about >3 degrees by the looks of it.

Windshear suspected.

[FlexibleResponse]

Fuselage bent?

[bnt]

That's what the news reports say e.g. Reuters (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=:ePkh8BM9EyLRDiOBDS6bLp168zc0-aeFjda3vQsBWaAQtA/0-1&fp=45dc5c0d70bbddf7&ei=T1ncRbmpBq-wwQH827mTBQ&url=http%3A//www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/JAK40045.htm&cid=1113822441) and the Herald Tribune (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/02/21/asia/AS-GEN-Indonesia-Hard-Landing.php). Very bent, due to a hard landing. :{

[gengis]

2g landing? Arghhhhhh........................ airplane abuse? I beg your pardon!

Well i s'pose, they'd be able to hire some guys to fly the airplane for 2,000,000 rupiahs (US$200). Good luck, guys

:ugh:

[bnt]

Reuters has a picture, here (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/pictures/JAK11.htm). Any Boeing employees should exercise caution when viewing this image. :eek:

[PK-KAR]

Tis bent indeed my friend... my friends in Surabaya are already placing their bets on the price of aluminium saucepans for next month! :rolleyes:
http://www.liputan6.com/files/daerah/pic/210207cadamair.jpg
Bent? Hell yea!
PK-KAR

[gengis]

What bout slipped discs among the passengers????????? Or whiplash????

[macam2ada]

I am surprised that they are still operating. Why do people still want to fly with them?

[readywhenreaching]

for a closer look:

http://www.indoflyer.net/indoforum/tm.asp?m=112409&mpage=4&key=

[maxalt]

Bit late on the round-out Hoskins......

[G-UNIT]

http://www.alertnet.org/thefacts/imagerepository/RTRPICT/2007-02-21T131849Z_01_JAK11_RTRIDSP_2_INDONESIA-PLANE_articleimage.jpg

[tightcircuit]

Better pictures here, sorry its so long! http://foto.detik.com/index.php/home.readfoto/tahun/2007/bulan/02/tgl/21/time/194233/idnews/745338/idkanal/157/id/1

[BTDT]

Natalia Budihardjo, a regional spokeswoman for PT Adam Skyconnections Airlines, said "The sudden stop of the plane was the best decision by the pilot for the safety of the 130 passengers,"

:ugh:

[Slats One]

You have all been duped my friends.

That is the new aerodynamic test bed for the Dreamliner Constellation series of Boeing- with banana shaped substitutes for drag reducing fairings once called Whitcombe bodies- a la Convair C990.

See how the excess heat of Indonesia has bent the locally cured carbon fried fibre?

Sour buyer it happende at you say - you better Adam Air and believe it...

You want bendy boeing mister- cheap cheap....

[Beaver diver]

Jesus Christ, how long can a family owned company run for???

Non acceptable standards at all, but they keep on doing it...maybe they have some big shot in the government, who knows, sounds like it otherwise they'd be out of business long time ago...

Their logo should be; "Adam air, everytime you fly us you are closer to heaven"

Hehehehe....

[hikoushi]

Or rather closer to hell, since they seem more adept at attempting to drive their airplanes down INTO the earth than keeping them above it.:ugh:

[act700]

A better business plan for Adam Air:

Why not chose or let passengers fly the trips, sort of like a car rental? They could save the ridiculous high pilot wages they pay!!!

This could also make a new reality TV show-like Airline.

[barit1]

maxalt quotes Roger Bacon -
Bit late on the round-out Hoskins......

ROFL!

Hey, it looks ferriable to me...

[jet_noseover]

Hey, it looks ferriable to me...

Watch ebay closely. :rolleyes:

Sad, really.

[Freehills]

Heh, just outside Juanda airport are large Maspion factories. Maspion is Indonesia's largest maker of aluminium items (pots/ pans etc.)

Now I know why they are there - inexhaustable supply of cheap scrap metal!

[jet_noseover]

Seems the Adamair's B737-300 (all 7 of them) have been grounded.

PK-KAR,

Adam Air officials explained that Wednesday's accident occurred after the aircraft encountered poor weather conditions - heavy rains and strong wind.
'A few minutes before landing, it was reported that the plane received wind pressure from above, or what we call a downdraft,' Hartono, Adam Air's safety and security director, was quoted as saying by The Jakarta Post.
Television footage showed the Boeing 737-300 stranded on the airport runway with its rear section bent downwards and apparently a vertical split in the fuselage.

Seems the weather knocked this 'chine out.


The incident caused the body of the plane cracking, creating an angle of some 35 decrees, according to the television. But there is no report of serious wound and casualty from the incident.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailgeneral.asp?fileid=20070221183226&irec=6


http://news.monstersandcritics.com/asiapacific/news/article_1267224.php/Indonesia_grounds_Adam_Airs_planes_after_hard_landing


http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/02/21/indonesia.adamair.reut/index.html

[Rush2112]

Having lived in Indonesia (and having an Indonesian wife) I can assure you that people will continue to fly with these clowns, until (if) they are closed down - which given their connections is unlikely.

Why? 1. They are cheap. 2. Indonesians generally have no concept of "what would happen if..." - look at how they cram 5 people on a moped and set off across Jakarta to visit the inlaws.

[twenty eight]

They did not waste any time painting the whole aircraft white.
picture (http://foto.detik.com/index.php/home.readfoto/tahun/2007/bulan/02/tgl/22/time/132251/idnews/745650/idkanal/157/id/1)

[discostu]

Nah....this is just the test bed for the drooping tail option, copied from the kneeling bus. Saves the need for airstairs....

[Say again s l o w l y]

With their reputation, I'm not surprised they were prepared to get the a/c painted as fast as they did. They unfortunately seem to get plenty of practise.

[abeb]

:D
Some official comments on 'painted white incident', rough translation.

Angkasa Pura (Juanda Airport) Head of PR, Edmundus Priyono :
"It's just temporary, no problemo, it's their plane anyway"
"It's their plane, they own the plane, it is their rigth to do so"

Chairman Subcommittee of KNKT (National Transportation Safety Committee),
Indonesian Agency responsible for investigating transportation accident, Fran Wenas :
"Team is already in Juanda, color alteration does not interfere with investigation process."
"Maybe they (Adam Air) did not want their airplane to be so obvious"

Both are not consulted first by Adam Air before repainting the aircraft white. Those comments disregard Indonesian Law and ICAO adopted as a Legal Framework for KNKT regarding evidence. Clearly Adam Air has tempered with the evidence.

[Dude~]

it is quite common for airline liveries to be covered after incidents. Air France were quick to blank the tail of that Fokker that got bent last month, and Brittania did the same with the 757 that broke up after leaving the runway a few years back. No idea whether or not its interference with evidence though.

[xetroV]

I believe it's due to ownership reasons: an airplane that's written-off in an accident becomes property of the insurance company. Hence the removal of markings and registrations. (Or something like that.) However, painting a wreck this thoroughly seems pretty remarkable to me.

[Raggyman]

Very much a missed marketing opportunity really... why white? Would have thought bright banana yellow would have been more appropriate.

Ouch, when that hit the ground that woud have definitely hurt a little.. hope the poor passengers were ok.

[SOPS]

mmmmm.....must have been a very very hard hit:confused:

[Ben_S]

Ouch.

Hard to beleive people will still fly with clowns like this given that the wreckage of their last crash still hasn't been found.

Is stuff like this covered up over there so people don't know about it or are people really stupid enough to keep using them?

[abeb]

They did it in less than 24 hours after the incident, before any formal investigation took place. For me that's kindda odd. :bored:

And now the owner + management is denying the cracking body of the airplane, said it's fine and sitting in the Merpati Hangar in front of reporters and jurnalist, saw that in Metro TV (Indonesian CNN-like). What do they expect us to believe, that the airplane is in for a tire change? Their denials is out of this world. Everybody in Indonesia knows it's bullsh*t, every people I've talked to said it was cracked and bented like a hump whale. They KNOW!

Adamair ticked box employee was interviewed by Metro reporter and was asked why Adamair canceled/delayed other fligths and were there any customer returning tickets, demanding refunds. His response was business is as usual. "The one you see in the information board (cancelled) has already departed an hour ago, full sitting". Yeah ..right. And that there were no ticket cancelation by customer. After that interview, Metro runned a footage of qeuing tickets holder returning them and wanting refunds. Gotcha, again.

Apparantly denials is their game now. Nice company damage control startegy.:ok:

[Ndicho Moja]

Last year Indonesia had an aviation incident or accident, on average, every ten days. This info compliments of the Idonesia aviation authorities.
Jakarta and Juanda airspace, on a good day is chaotic and on a bad day just down right dangerous.

[CargoOne]

For me is a bit strange that landing gear didn't collapsed first...

[barit1]

Having lived in Indonesia (and having an Indonesian wife) I can assure you that people will continue to fly with these clowns, until (if) they are closed down - which given their connections is unlikely.

Why? 1. They are cheap. 2. Indonesians generally have no concept of "what would happen if..." - look at how they cram 5 people on a moped and set off across Jakarta to visit the inlaws.

Why is it I am reminded of -

"There are three kinds of people:
Those who learn from their own mistakes,
those who learn from others' mistakes, and
those who never learn." :(

[OldChinaHand]

I suppose we have all heard of Official white washes in the past......But this paint job takes the biscuit !!!!!.

[PK-KAR]

(Self-EDITed: erroneous info)

PK-KAR

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Learned contributors,
Will the FDR be able to give details such as rate of decent and G loadings?
Be lucky
David

[G-CPTN]

They did not waste any time painting the whole aircraft white.
Maybe there was more than one . . . ?
For me is a bit strange that landing gear didn't collapsed first...
Maybe the load-distribution (and total) were 'unusual'?
look at how they cram 5 people on a moped and set off across Jakarta to visit the inlaws.

[Bobbsy]

A question from an SLF member...

Is it really likely that damage like that could occur unless there was something pretty seriously wrong with the airframe already? I'd have guessed the gear would collapse first and/or some pretty extensive injuries to pax before the frame would buckle like that...unless there were cracks or corrosion or something.

Bobbsy

[Austrian Simon]

I'd have guessed the gear would collapse first and/or some pretty extensive injuries to pax before the frame would buckle like that...unless there were cracks or corrosion or something.


I think, the following video explains, how such a crack can occur - there's quite some shock wave running through the fuselage ... And no, the gear didn't collapse on that flight either, though the plane really broke apart and lost its whole tail.

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/MD-80.mpeg

Servus, Simon

[seacue]

Don't some of the MD-80 family have their tails held on with exploding bolts? The idea being to blow the tail off and use the hole for escape after a crash.

Could this video snip just show that those bolts exceeded the strength limit before something else gave way? I don't think that you can extrapolate to other types of aircraft.

[Yarra]

Does anyone have an opinion on the Adam Air "hard landing" in Indonesia. It appears that the structural damage is more consistent with air frame failure through fatigue.

Yarra

[FCS Explorer]

the gear assembly consists of two really tough metal "legs". if you drop the aircraft flat down, they will punch upwards into the wing, just like with smaller aircraft. you will see wrinkles on the upper wing surface. those heavy duty metal parts of the gear will always be the last to be deformed. it's like the motor block in a car. compared to this part everything else is rather "soft".
seeing the damage in this current case i yet would assume an combination of high G loads and fatigue of the frame.

[Tjosan]

[quote)Don't some of the MD-80 family have their tails held on with exploding bolts? The idea being to blow the tail off and use the hole for escape after a crash.[/quote]


It's only the tailcone, not the tail that you can separate from the fuselage for evacuating purposes.

[VH-Cheer Up]

Another article on the subject here (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/02/22/212267/picture-indonesias-dgac-grounds-adam-air-737-300-fleet-after-latest.html)

Tea and bickies with the CP, Hoskins?

[SOPS]

and they want to fly from Perth to Bali.....???????:eek:

[WHBM]

Two questions :

1. How do these guys get airframe insurance ? What sort of rates are they paying now ? Who would even offer it to them ?

2. Painting the remains white because of all the bad publicity photos that will be taken seems a wasted opportunity. Should they not have repainted it in the colours of their rivals Garuda ? !

[Elroy Jettson]

Appropriate captions?

FO politely asks... "Anything for the tech log Skipper?"

"Have you ever noticed that 73s look a bit skewed when they taxi?"

[vapilot2004]

It appears that the structural damage is more consistent with air frame failure through fatigue.


While I will gladly defer to an engineer's take on this, I am pretty confident that an airframe that collapsed like the Adam Air 733 pictured , even considering a moderate amount of overstress during landing, would have been found unairworthy long before this sort of thing could have happened.

"Have you ever noticed that 73s look a bit skewed when they taxi?"

It's not nice to poke fun at such things inherent. :p

[frozen man]

B737's always look a bit bent on taxi, something to do with a small amount of main gear stearing:) :)

[flightleader]

Do you mean crab instead of bend?? Definately not bent like Adam air's,almost tail between the legs.

[27/09]

"Have you ever noticed that 73s look a bit skewed when they taxi?"

'Tis because nose leg is offset from the aircrafts centre line, so when viewed from behind looks like it's crabbing.

[Wizofoz]

'Tis because nose leg is offset from the aircrafts centre line, so when viewed from behind looks like it's crabbing

Not on any 737 I flew (which would number about 100)!

There is some play in the main gear.Thats how the aircraft, which has no Rudder control on Auto Pilot, is able to autoland in a cross wind.

[Ye Olde Pilot]

Seems like the Adams family are par for the course!
http://www.mediafling.com/store/images/ADAMS%20FAMILY%20-%20WS.bmp

Not too good on the ground or at sea either:}
From the BBC website:

Indonesian ferry suddenly sinks

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42611000/jpg/_42611183_afp203bodyferry.jpg The burned out ferry was sitting in waters just off Jakarta

An Indonesian ferry involved in a deadly mid-voyage fire on Thursday has sunk with several safety investigators, police and journalists on board.
Medical workers said a TV cameraman had died, two people were seriously hurt and an unknown number are missing.
It is not known how many were aboard when the Levina I ferry suddenly leaned over and sank off Jakarta's port.
Earlier, the death toll from Thursday's fire rose to 41 after rescuers found 21 bodies drifting at sea, officials said.
The BBC's Lucy Williamson in Jakarta says that the charred hulk had been towed to waters just off Jakarta's Tanjung Priok port so officials trying to uncover the cause of Thursday's fire could begin their examination.
'Fighting for life'
"It had been anchored at the time, but it was tilting on one side," Lieutenant-Colonel Hendra Pakan told the Reuters news agency.
Medical workers at the port said a cameraman working for Indonesian television had been confirmed dead and another was in emergency care after being rescued from the sinking ship.
An investigator who was examining the ferry when it sank was also said to be fighting for her life.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifRECENT INDONESIAN DISASTERS
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42599000/gif/_42599965_indo_bangka_feb07.gif
Ferry fire 22 Feb 2007: At least seven die as Bangka ferry catches fire
Train crash 16 Jan 2007: At least five die as train falls from bridge in Java
Landslide 12 Jan 2007: Landslide kills at least 16 on island of Sangihe
Plane crash 1 Jan 2007: Passenger plane carrying 102 people crashes in sea west of Sulawesi island
Ferry sinks 30 Dec 2006: More than 350 lost as ferry sinks between Borneo and Java
Stampede 20 Dec 2006: 10 killed, dozens injured in a stampede at Java pop concert
Earthquake 18 Dec 2006: Seven killed, about 100 injured in a quake in Sumatra

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/inline_dashed_line.gif

Indonesia's public perils (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6270797.stm)


Thursday's fire was the latest in a string of deadly transport incidents in Indonesia, leading to concern over its safety record.
The Levina I ferry was 80km (50 miles) from port Tanjung Priok when a fire broke out.
Some 250 passengers are known to have survived, but there are fears that some people are still missing.
Navy officials said the bodies found earlier on Sunday were discovered by navy vessels and fishing boats. The previous figure for the dead was 20.
"Some were picked up directly from the sea by the warships while others were found by fishermen around two nearby islands," Indonesia's navy spokesman Lt Col Hendra Pakan told the Associated Press news agency.
"They were all discovered about 30 miles (48km) away from the scene," the spokesman said.
Navy ships are still continuing the search for survivors.
Officials fear there could have been many more people on board than the 307 registered passengers, as Indonesian ferries regularly have stowaways, trying to avoid paying fares.
[B]Transport perils
The Levina I was on its way from Jakarta to Bangka island off Sumatra when the blaze broke out on Thursday morning.
Many of the survivors from the fire hurled themselves off the blazing vessel into the sea, to escape the flames.
Yas Rijal, 33, was with his wife and son on the upper deck when the fire broke out.
"Suddenly flames burst from the lower deck. The crew ordered us to put on yellow life vests and we jumped," he told the AP news agency.
The accident is the most deadly sea disaster since a passenger ferry carrying around 600 people capsized in late December off Java island, killing more than half of the passengers.
Indonesia, an archipelago of thousands of islands, relies on ferries to provide a cheap and extensive passenger network.
But many vessels are badly maintained, and there have been a number of recent accidents. Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono has recently formed a team to look into transport safety.

[Few Cloudy]

Quite remarkable that the airframe held as well as it did! What you don't see are all the ruined systems / hydraulics /avionics in there.

The remark about frying pans is pretty near the mark. There are quite a few throw away components - from the gear on up - maybe even the wing structure.

The MD - 80 has no explosive bolts - the tail cone is jettisonable if required by the cabin crew (with the rear stairs still retracted) and then a slide deploys.

[Graybeard]

"I think, the following video explains, how such a crack can occur - there's quite some shock wave running through the fuselage ... And no, the gear didn't collapse on that flight either, though the plane really broke apart and lost its whole tail.
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photoga...eos/MD-80.mpeg
Servus, Simon"

Thanks for the link, Simon. That MD-80, fus. 909, had less than 1,000 hours, and was still in Douglas Fright Test program when an FAA pilot made that great landing. One broken ankle was the only human casualty. A few years later, that plane was repaired and put back in fright test program, and later sold.

So, no, it did not require prior damage for the Adam 737 to break like that.

About the same time that DAC fus. 909 lost it's tail, a second MD-80 in fright test, fus. 917, belonging to Swissair, skidded off the runway at Yuma after an intentional no-flaps landing, and the gear collapsed. They brought in a brand new crane to lift the plane and put it back on its gear. Unfortunately, the crane's boom went right down and sliced the plane in half.

Swissair sent a telex: "Get OUR name off YOUR plane." That plane was never repaired.

GB

[PK-KAR]

So, now 18 more pilots grounded, 150 staff told to pack their bags...

All this perhaps due to someone(s) wanting to put something extra without the pilot knowing... perhaps the standard old trick of slapping 800kg-1.2tons of stuff at the bottom but still recording the right numbers on the aircraft... adding an unnoticeable 2 - 5kt to handling difference...

PK-KAR

[FCS Explorer]

if u want 2-5 knots Vref difference you will need way more than one extra ton. on the 737NG 1 ton more or less equals 1 knot in Vref. should be roughly the same on the classics since the airframe is very much the same.

[PK-KAR]

FCS, it would be a small number on the Vref, in the case of Adam, I guess someone figured it out that to add that weight would affect the speed attaining positive rate by a negligeable margin... and shouldn't affect approach handling... otherwise the pilots would notice. The "culprits" have been said to set such a limit also to keep CG within the 'expected'.

Now to add to the story, yesterday an Adam Air 732 RTB'ed, after something got stuck, either the flaps/slats or stabilizer. pax reported hearing "a horn like explosion", but that was denied by the company, whose official word was "something wrong with the slaps (yes, they said slaps), the horizontal piece behind the wing, that it would not go to 5 degrees"... Whatever that means...

A release came out on KKV, today stating that "no structural weaknesses were found", either that was in reference to the condition of the aircraft before the incident or after, I dunno, I hope the former though...

PK-KAR

[fox niner]

Regarding the Adam Air 737....

Did they recover the Flight Data Recorder to read out how with many G's they hit the runway?
Or has all evidence 'mysteriously' disappeared?

[Longtimer]

Seems to me the maintence record is more important than the age when considering older aircraft.

"Last Updated 01/03/2007, 04:33:43

Indonesia's transport minister says new limits on the age of commercial aircraft are being considered to improve air safety.

Most Indonesian commercial airlines use refurbished aircraft, but Hatta Rajasa told reporters in Jakarta the government is considering preventing planes older than 10 years from entering the domestic fleet.

Under current regulations, planes can be up to 20 years old when they're first used, and can operate for another 15 years.

The proposal follows the crash of an 18-year-old Adam Air plane into the sea off Sulawesi on New Year's Day, in which more than 100 people are believed to have died. "

[discountinvestigator]

I was in Adam Air country last year. I pointed out all the wrinkles along the rear fuselage of a couple of their aircraft to an insurance underwriter who was rather glad that I took a good look at the Garuda 737 before we got on it.

On the subject of windshear, there are many things wrong with the current regulations. Do not laugh all you professional pilots, it is quite possible with the current meteorological readouts from ATC, you could be the next victim. I am working at it behind the scenes, and hope that ICAO will change the rules in November 07.

When there is frontal activity, or when Cbs are in the area, you need instant wind and not 2 minute average. You need wind readouts when they are relevant, not just at 10 miles to go in a procedural environment with your landing clearance.

Yes, the FDR, if working, will give you various G readings, but actually they are not that accurate for short term transients as they depend on sampling rate, when they sample in the one second cycle, the mounting in the airframe in relation to the event etc.

Happy landings

Discount

[ZAGORFLY]

I heard tonigt that this plane was overladed by an encreased seat capacity at the rear.
it may have landed Hard but as you can see the gear did not collapsed under such violent stress. I may incline to think that maybe the teory of an over load after section is a contribuiting factor credible.

knowing then that its president Owner is a guy named Adam and is only 26 year old that likes planes (like Me/us) make me wonder all the rest...but this is possible in indonesia.

[Ahua]

Anyone, want to check out the number if currect AD's out for the 737 Classics, relaing to fuselage cracking. It is possible that the mass crack on this is related to that, something there that just got bigger as it hit the deck. interesting that the crack is just aft of the belly fairing, and this is known to be one of the most vunerable areas. :ooh:

[Lasham Geezer]

Ahua, could you quantify that load of gobbledy gook? Which AD are you referring to? :confused:

[ZAGORFLY]

It was a 6G landing.

[J430]

I am no Boeing expert but 6G's is a hell of a lot for anyone......i bet they are not built for that load........I hope it gets scrapped and not repaired:eek:

J:ok:

[barit1]

I don't think there's any way to validate the 6G number based on FDR data - the data sampling rate won't support that kind of analysis.

If it was obtained via Boeing's stress analysis of the observed deformation, then I might place some credence in that 6G number.

[Lasham Geezer]

J430,
B737-300, broken in half, mmmmmmmmmmmmm, repair or scrap, thats a tricky one. Considering the facts l think you can sleep safely in your bed knowing that it will be SCRAPPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is an ex- aeroplane, it has gone to meet its maker, it has shuffled of its mortal coil. Boeings SRM makes no mention of how to "cut and shut" its products. you might be able to salvage a couple of soap holders, but thats yer lot matey!

[J430]

Have to agree that one is pretty well stuffed, however a B744 in Germany was the victim of a jacking stuff up and had a few creases ironed out of its rear end some time back, and I believe it went back into service. Not quite as bent as the B737 banana, but still nothing would surprise me:eek:

This is the link to a thread on another forum, and its titled A340, but it was in fact a B747.

http://www.**********/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3982

J:ok:

[theamrad]

I think you're right there Barit1 - since it's more a consideration of impulse as opposed to force - esp in terms of data acquisition rate. If v/s recorded at touchdown, then have to derive rate of change of v/s - and that will only lead to an approximation. I am genuinely curious to know who came up with the figure of 6G and how they arrived at it.

[FCS Explorer]

.... makes two 737-150 !!!!!:}
and if there is some kind of inertial nav sys built in it should very well record the G's along the three axes. on the 737NG you can look up for example the G's during touchdown or the min and max G during flight.

[ChristiaanJ]

barit1,
If you're referring to the sampling rate for the vertical acceleration on the FDR, I concur.
However, if you take the last few data points for vertical speed, combine that with the landing gear geometry, and apply some basic physics, I would think you'd get a reasonable approximation for max. G. Structural analysis would then provide a cross check.

[lomapaseo]

barit1,
If you're referring to the sampling rate for the vertical acceleration on the FDR, I concur.
However, if you take the last few data points for vertical speed, combine that with the landing gear geometry, and apply some basic physics, I would think you'd get a reasonable approximation for max. G. Structural analysis would then provide a cross check.

I believe that was what he was refering

You do the input modeling first, as you have said, and then you tweak a couple of input varriables until you match the damage. In the end, once the model has closed on the damage, without violating known DFDR data input points, then you can interpolate missing data like vertical acceleration.

[PK-KAR]

Well, for this accident, though not yet released, the reputation of the captain and operator wouldn't surprise anyone that it is "highly likely that this accident is caused by poor judgement of the pilot, whose actions have lead the aircraft into an unstable approach, or whose actions by not deferring the approach resulted in the aircraft being affected by windshear conditions."
If the investigations were full, it should go on to "Contributory to the decision not to defer the approach is the management's view disliking wasting money for actions in the interest of safety when its benefit are not directly visibile on the company finances"...

Hey, forget the last bit, it's subjective....

:E

PK-KAR

[salju]

Adam Air braces for possible closure after string of plane accidents

JAKARTA (AP): Adam Air was bracing for possible closure Friday after the Indonesian government announced plans to shut down an unspecified local carrier following a string of aviation accidents, officials said.
Director General of Air Transportation Budi Mulyawan Suyitno did not identify the airline that would have its license revoked, saying only that it had recently been plagued by "frequent accidents."

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.aspx?feed=AP&Date=20070316&ID=6623681

[BOAC]

Apologies for the outbreak of anorakism:) , but is there a readable airframe reg in any of those pics?

[CaptainSandL]

PK-KKV was visible before the aircraft was painted white.

[BOAC]

Thanks Captain:)

[punkalouver]

AAIC (http://www.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_aviation/aaic.htm)

Not a huge amount of details in the report. Captain took over controls at about 200 feet as he felt they were too high on approach. Over a 2,000 fpm descent(momentarily 2400) made below 200 feet. Looks from the FDR as a major nose-down input was made by the captain. There was also a temporary runway excusion on one side. 5 G touchdown, keel beam was broken.

According to the report, the aircraft came to a stop near taxiway N3. There is no taxiway chart shown in the report, but this taxiway is about halfway down the 9843' runway. There was a thunderstorm at the airport during the incident although the given weather seems reasonable. No approach briefing on the CVR(perhaps done earlier), however, no checklists read out.

[BOAC]

Over a 2,000 fpm descent(momentarily 2400) made below 200 feet. - I guess he was probably ex Fleet Air Arm?