Rolled Airliners

[TheGorrilla]

Not sure if this has been a thread on here before, if so I'd appreciate a redirection. However, my question is which airliners have been rolled in the past, during testing or otherwise? I know Concorde and B707 were rolled for sure, dunno about 727, 747, 737, Airbuses etc.....

Reason for asking is simply one of those trivial discussions in a bar. Before anyone asks!!!! :ouch:

[extreme P]

Not sure about rolls during testing but although I have never had the opportunity I can vouch the 737-200 has been rolled many a time on empty legs...

[Clandestino]

Boeing 720s were rolled. Not always succesfully :( (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19640715-0&lang=en)

C99 make lousy rollers too. (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19930428-0&lang=en)

[zlin77]

Did QANTAS roll "The Bahrain Bomber" (B707) a long time ago or only get half way round?...

[GASCAN]

There is this video titled "Boeing 747 barrell roll" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVzRaliTuks

It's actually the video of Tex Johnson rolling the 707 & not a 747.

Enjoy

Gascan

[411A]

Some pilots are absolute loons.
Trying to roll a transport jet is definately the product of a drug induced 'thought' process, for which the offender should have his privates sliced off.
With a dull knife...:ugh:

[Bob Lenahan]

727's been rolled.

[formulav]

The best bet would be to get some RETIRED PILOTS on this thread. You would probably get some answers.

[dv8]

Citation roll

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwsCOam4r4Q

[Trogdor]

Not exactly a big airliner, but the Beech 1900 has been rolled.

[TheGorrilla]

Thanks chaps. 411A has clearly never been upside down in his life and thinks it's dangerous!!

Seriously, It's nice to know test pilots have done this sort of thing and proved the aircrafts capability. We practise jet upsets in the sim and wonder just how much point there is to it..... Then take the BA 747 Nairobi incident. Million to one chance of it ever happening eh?

I personally think there is still a place for doing this sort of think in airliner test flying...... Well, maybe cos it's fun, mostly cos it may happen some day!! :\

[False Capture]

I've rolled an RJ100/BAe146 in a simulator ... with the motion turned off.

[av8boy]

Re the C99... and I quote:

Subsequently, the flying pilot said, "I bet it would be real easy to just take it right on over." The pilots then discussed rolling airplanes. At 23:49:52, the flying pilot referred to his experience rolling Cessna 152 and 172 airplanes, and said, "...I guess we've got enough speed right now. And you just kinda start coming in like this, pullin up ... and keep positive Gs on it. Take it all the way around, unload ... and then point straight for the ground." The recording ended after this last remark, at 23:50:35.

Of course, the C99's not a transport jet. Perhaps TheGorrilla has a point and it IS safer in a transport jet and 411A IS foolish. Of course, 411A IS old, experienced, and alive. so perhaps HE has a point. Go ahead and do what you think is right ape-man. Don't forget, take it all the way around, unload ... and then point straight for the ground. :D

[Agaricus bisporus]

There must be an appropriate name, probably of Anglo-Saxon origin, for the sort of "person", if I may misuse that word for a sub-human, who does this to an airframe that one of his colleagues will have to fly the next day.

Sadly I doubt it would be printable.

The guys in the Beech and 707 did the gene pool a great favour. Good riddance.

[TheGorrilla]

Beech is probably capable of being rolled...... By someone who knows how. It would seem those chaps didn't, idiots! Hence it's something only a test pilot should attempt, rather than some gash line bloke merely guessing what the correct tecnique is. Line pilots should only ever do this in a sim, as part of the unusual attitude or upset training. Part of my 777 training was a recovery from inverted. However, I don't think any Boeing test pilot has ever rolled a B777?

:hmm:

[xetroV]

http://www.707sim.com/images/texrole.jpg
Famous picture of the Tex Johnson 707 roll.

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

It's a good way to get to know your local NTSB investigator ...

Cargo Pilots’ Aileron Roll Attempt Damages Learjet

At about 3:30 a.m. on January 10, the pilots flying a cargo-carrying Learjet 35 from Jacksonville, Fla., to Columbus, Ohio, for Airnet Systems attempted an aileron roll, according to the NTSB, but the maneuver wasn’t entirely successful. “The crew reported they did an intentional roll,” said NTSB investigator-in-charge Todd Fox. “There was substantial damage. The elevators were bent, and there was some stabilizer damage. Major damage was to the left wing; there was a large crease in the stainless-steel leading edge.” Fox was told that this was the last flight for the Learjet captain before he was to move on to a new job flying passengers for a Part 121 airline. Fox’s Chicago NTSB office will release, probably this week, a data-collection report on the incident. Data-collection reports are a new short form that is a combination of the typical preliminary and factual reports, Fox explained.

[old,not bold]

In the early 70's a French exec jet (Falcon?) sales team took the Ruler of Abu Dhabi, also President of UAE, for a short trip, in an attempt to sell the aircraft for the Royal Flight. All went well, and the Ruler disembarked, very impressed. The Sales team then asked him to watch a demonstration around the airfield of the aircraft's real capabilities. It was very light, with very little fuel and 2 crew.

The French pilot began with a stunning, climbing, hesitation roll immediately after leaving the ground, with the gear still coming in as it started.

By the time the roll was finshed the Ruler was in his car, having announced that never, ever, would he contemplate buying an aeroplane that did that.
I think I heard him mutter that he would have the local agent locked up for suggesting he should buy such a dangerous machine.

[411A]

Flying the aeroplane the way is was intended to be flown, or showing off, with possible unfavorable consequences?

The NTSB/AAIB etc reports are full of folks who sometimes do foolish maneuvers.

The latter folks should be locked up, and the key thrown away....:uhoh: :ugh:

Professional pilots are paid to fly the aeroplane the way specified, instead of making it up as they go along.:sad:

[Dave Gittins]

The TV series "Reaching for the Skies" from about 15 years back has footage of the Tex Johnson roll (it was actually in the Dash 80 - the pre production 707 prototype) and there was also footage of another smaller aeroplane (think it may have been a JetStar or Sabreliner but cannot remember type) allegedly full of Air Force Generals where to demonstrate a roll maintaining positive G, somebody puts a cup on the glareshield and pours tea from a teapot whilst the horizon does a full 360 in the background.

Bob Hoover often flew some extraordinary manoevers in an Aero Commander demonstrating the use of momentum conservation to effectively do a run and break with power off and topping it out with a loop or roll to position on about a 200 metre final.

To take a leaf out of 411A's book, I think the FAA DID try and have him certified insane and he was in constant battles with them to keep his medical certification.
DGG

[Ace Rimmer]

I know of people who may (or may not) have (or have not) rolled a Dash 8...

[False Capture]

Didn't a couple of clowns in British Regional Airlines Ltd (BRAL) roll a Jetstream J31 on a positioning flight?

[On-MarkBob]

The infamous Alan Dix rolled a BAC 1-11 on airtest just before he left to join the Rothmans Aerobatic team. Pulled just a little over 1G all the way round, apparently so as not to empty the loos into the cabin!! He said it went very well, which is exactly what you would expect from a British aeroplane.

[esreverlluf]

Does this count?http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/ci642/1.jpg

[TheGorrilla]

Oh dear. Looks a bit like a louse on it's back wriggling around!! Hmmmm..... Maybe I drink too much!:O

[TourDriver]

Not sure, but someone once told me that Concorde was rolled as part of its cerification tests......?

TD

[TheGorrilla]

It was.... Twice, once by Andrew Turcat and once by Brian Warpole. Andrew went first and then told Brian to "unwind" it. Went round well apparently.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Walpole???? Oo? Oh, yer mean Trubshaw?

Oh dear!

But they were test pilots, which places them, and the airframes that they might overstress in a quite different category. Quite apart from the fact that had they overstressed the airframe they'd be responsible enough to admit it...

Airline pilots who commit aerobatics in their airliners are in the same box as child molesters as far as I am concerned.

[TheGorrilla]

Think it was Warpole. Trubshaw would have told Andrew where to go. :* Could be wrong though, I'll have to check again...

I agree airline pilots rolling aeroplanes are stupid idiots who may fiddle with kiddies when they get bored of fiddling with themselves. However, test pilots doing it is very different. Especially since Concorde was not overstressed or did not (unintentionally) exceed any parameter on the flight in question.

[Ladytech]

There are old pilots and bold pilots.
I don't think there are any old bold pilots!
These guys are a tech's nightmare!

[Brian Abraham]

Bristol Freighter of a certain airforce was aerobatted and a subsequent crew had the unfortunate experience of the wings clapping hands while on a routine flight. Guy also put on performance in a 748 for his final flight, only to tell the CO on landing he had been practicing for a month so he better get the techs to check all the other AC in the squadron as well.