Laser pointers used against aircraft

[robo283]

I am researching incidents of laser pointers (red or green) being directed at aircraft in flight (there is a genuine reason for this research). Can anyone who has experienced this please PM me?

[Lil Bro]

i seem to remember a SkyWest crew getting a green laser on final into KMFR about 2 years ago. seems like it was an EMB120.

[Lemper]

Hi Robot,
Ask on a US site and forum: I remember some complains about US airlines pilots being "flashed" at 30.000' and above while overflying the vicinity of KLAS. It was the Pyramids hotel laser and they had to do something about it.
All the best

[Victim Air]

There were several incidents of this at the local field, which is a reasonably busy regional strip with jet RPT traffic. I understand the authorities did not take it lightly at all, and the police became particularly interested. It was detected from a residence under the flightpath. Last I heard the villans were apprehended. I have since moved from that area and don't know the outcomes in terms of charges or convictions. I'll make some enquiries and get back to you.

[robo283]

I am aware of lasers being used in the UK recently. In particular I understand that pointers the size of a ball point pen are effective up to a mile so are potentially a threat to aircraft on approach.

[rack 'n stack]

Robo

Many instances of green lasers pointed at aircraft in YPPH and YMML. As recently as this week.

Does not appear to be restricted to aircraft type either as last one in Perth was a PA44 and the recent in ML was B738.

rgds

[18-Wheeler]

Many instances of green lasers pointed at aircraft in YPPH and YMML. As recently as this week.

I have sent a PM to Robbo to that effect- I got 'zapped' by a green laser on approach to RWY27 into Melbourne late last year.
I think about 8 miles out?
The tower took it seriously and sent a guy around in a car to the plane to get more details. I drew a rought map of the area I saw, etc.
If that's the same spot, they obviously haven't caught the person yet.

[Floppy Link]

We got zapped by a red one while on task over Glasgow last year...unfortunately the police task took priority and we couldn't pinpoint the location.
I did take control of the nitesun and fire it back down the beam, so to speak. "Mine's bigger than yours, and we know where you are" - it soon stopped...:E

[MSP Aviation]

i don't know if you're looking for newspaper articles as well, but there should be some back issues of the Denver Post with laser incidents in it if you want to sign up (and probably pay for) the website.

[SilsoeSid]

In addition to the thread on rotorheads, occasionally we have the odd torch/laser shone at aircraft on App to 15 at BHX from the flats.
Again, a knock on the door sorts them out. Always denied until they are told it is on video and are asked if they they wanted to discuss the matter further!

I believe some scrote 'oop north has just received 100hrs community service from the magistrate for shining a laser at a helicopter. (Endangering an aircraft).

[Bob Down]

Hi Robo (or is it Robot or Robbo...;) )

How are you doin'? How's the wee man...over his ear infection??

In Switzerland there have been a number of lunatics carrying out lunar antics (sic) with 1m candela torches, just because someone has the temerity to overfly their houses. The local Stasi have taken a slightly dim view of this (dimmer than the torches unfortunately), leading to some 'wrist slapping' and 'don't do it agains'. Actually pointing out the penal servitude time should they cause the aircraft to crash focused the attention some what.

What sort of info do you want on this? Is it only hearsay or actually hard facts that you need?

Cheers

BD

[robo283]

Ear infection sorted thanks, BD! Wee man running round like a lunatic so obviously OK.

I'm after hard facts on the effects and the likelihood of significant impairment to vision, and also successful countermeasures (inevitably involving a knock on a door sometime later).

There seem to be two schools of thought; (1) don't worry, it isn't really a problem or (2) this could be catastrophic.

It's another of these things that help me stay awake at night :ooh:

[Cee of Gee]

robo283,
there used to be a disgruntled home owner at one end of BGY. Many crews reported a laser being pointed at the freighters flight deck.
Not sure what action was taken, but he reverted to a certain comment on a bed sheet hanging from the window!

[visibility3miles]

I know there was a thread on this topic on pprune before, but I can't find it.

The thread started from this incident, when a man was arrested for "tagging" an aircraft and initially said his 7-year-old duaghter had done it before saying, yes he was the one.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,143371,00.html
NEWARK, N.J. — A man charged with temporarily blinding the pilot and co-pilot of an airplane with a laser beam claims he was simply using the device to look at stars with his 7-year-old daughter.

It could lead to a temporary loss of night vision, as well as being a distraction.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/04/laser.beam.charges/index.html

P.S., Here's the thread:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=168393

[Double Zero]

The military had the idea in the 1980's to use powerful ' pilot incapacitating' lasers (PIL) - during the Falklands war a ship fitted with 'Flasher' was sent down, but the official story is it wasn't used in combat.

The Geneva Convention now declares these systems illegal, but when one's back is against the wall ...

As for idiots pointing at airliners, I can only think this should have a major police reaction, but might involve some hard work.

When using laser designators on a test range, I was first given goggles with sensors which would 'black - out' if hit by laser.

I wondered if the things could work sufficiently to beat the speed of light !

Later we were given what appeared to be modified sunglasses - maybe they should be aircrew issue ?

[llondel]

Not an incident as such, but a potential for one: a colleague at work just bought a laser sight for his telescope. So here we have lasers being marketed for an application where they are intended to be pointed skywards. He says they can actually be used as pointers to stars under typical UK conditions because the beam has enough backscatter to be visible.

[robo283]

Thanks for the lead to the earlier stories in the press.

"A report for the FAA in June 2004 examined the effect of laser beams on pilots.

Of 34 pilots who were exposed to lasers during simulated flights, 67 percent experienced adverse visual effects at even the lowest level of laser exposure.

Two high-exposure levels resulted in significantly greater performance difficulties, and nine aborted landings."

Clearly it is taken seriously.

If anyone on this thread flies into LBA regularly please PM me and I'll pass you my contact details. Basically I would like to know if you see any lasers on approach even if they do not actually constitute an aviation incident. Time and location will be useful in tracking the source.

[ixion17]

FYI there is a CAA pamphlet detailing the regulatory approach to this issue (just google it to find the actual number). It also contains a host of useful contact numbers depending on how keen you are to get further information. You could also contact SRG at Gatwick and ask them how many ASR's have been filed on this topic (not many!) - they may even be able to tell you how many instances have occurred at LBA.
Hope this helps

[freightdoggy dog]

Robo,
The answers you want are only 50 yards from you !! :=
Go and rabbit to some of our fine B757 flight deck who used to fly the mighty A300 freighters into Bergamo.
As C of G pointed out, an Italian geezer used to shine a laser pen into the Channex aircraft from his gaff at the holding point.
So the local rozzers went round, blew the bloody doors orf, and put a horses head in his bed. Sorted !

[AN2 Driver]

In Switzerland there have been a number of lunatics carrying out lunar antics (sic) with 1m candela torches, just because someone has the temerity to overfly their houses. The local Stasi have taken a slightly dim view of this (dimmer than the torches unfortunately), leading to some 'wrist slapping' and 'don't do it agains'. Actually pointing out the penal servitude time should they cause the aircraft to crash focused the attention some what.


Bob,

Didn't do much... still going on, with bright lights anyhow. Nobody does anything by the looks of it. If you call the police investigating this STASI, wonder why... I reckon they would have liked to move in much harder on these characters but were told not to by those who feel there are political solutions to such problems......

Best regards
AN2 Driver

[Bob Down]

Hi AN2,

Ummm, hadn't heard it was still going on, though doesn't surprise me. As we know political solutions in Switzerland are simply a way of pushing the problem away to someone else...let's have a referendum on it, only need 100,000 signatures for it to become a 'national' issue!!!!

Better solution would be to get you to do circuits round the perpetrators house in that wonderful bi-plane of yours...scare them rigid :E

BD

[MSP Aviation]

not to hijack this thread (are you allowed to say that on an aviation forum?), but what do you all think would be appropriate punishments? i personally think an example needs to be set, and some poor guy needs to get a jail sentence/probation so people will realize that this could be a serious issue, especially as more and more powerful lasers become available to Joe Civilian.

[robo283]

Following any conviction for Endangering the Safety of an Aircraft, imprisonment ought to be taken as read. If prison is appropriate for idiots delaying an aircraft through a bomb hoax, then there can be no sensible case (in my opinion) for imposing a lesser sentence for a more tangible menace.

[command]

I think this is an extremly serious issue. what the hell was the magistrate thinking only giving an offender 100 hrs community service, i think a hefty fine of around $10,000 and at least 10 years in prison would be much more appropriate. We need to get serious, I think an offence such as this is just as bad as sabbotage of an aircraft component, it puts the lives of everyone on board at risk and i think that it is just not on. It is almost an act of terrorism.
just my opinion.:=

[toothpic]

Double Zero wrote;
The military had the idea in the 1980's to use powerful ' pilot incapacitating' lasers (PIL) - during the Falklands war a ship fitted with 'Flasher' was sent down, but the official story is it wasn't used in combat.

Spent a happy couple of weeks running out of Gibraltar in the early eighties, doing tests on a British PIL, seemed very hush hush at the time.
They werent really supposed to incapacitate/blind the pilot, they were mainly designed to dazzle and interfere with the HUD and force the pilot to look down at his instruments at a critical phase of his attack, (at low level that could be pretty hairy:} )
I remember one ship a year or two later visited the City of London forgot to cover up the aforementioned laser projectors when the ship was opened to visitors. Someone got a major b*****king for that :rolleyes:
Toothpic

[StraightLevel]

Hi Robo,

Would be worth speaking to Cranfield Airport as they had an incident around november/december 2005?? i think when there was a laser put ontop of a building in Milton Keynes(think it was the theartre) which shone in the eyes of a few pilots on the approach to R21.

Regards,

straightlevel.