Extreme "Bandboxing"

[Midland 331]

"Bandboxing" - Combining several air traffic sectors normally handled separately by a specific controller. Or so I understand..

I wonder if anyone knows the record for this at LATCC? Swanwick is a bit after my time.

I dozed through Christmas Eve night into Christmas Day one year, "two-way entertainment" provided by both Pole Hill and Daventry sectors. I seem to recall an outbound KLM being asked to report passing Land's End. Would a single controller be looking after everything from the Scottish FIR boundary to all points west/south in situations like this?

I also recall one year, in the dead of night, an aircraft was given an extravagant direct routing, and informed that it was the only thing in the air over the UK at that particular time. The US crew were impressed.

(Oh, and some wag broadcast "jingle bells" from his musical socks over the R/T at about 2AM.)

r

[BOAC]

Sorry, Midland, but you will have to be brave and face the correct forum for this one:)

[Midland 331]

Omigoodness.

Could we change this to a thread about liveries, please, and send me back, way beyond the perimeter fence?

The softest part of these folks is their teeth....

r

[Gonzo]

Midland,

There are limitations on bandboxing, namely that the ATCO has to have a current validation for all the sectors under his/her control.

I would imagine it very improbable that someone had Clacton, North Sea, Daventry, Lakes, Bristol/Brecon etc etc validations at the same time, but I'm prepared to be corrected!

This limitation is a real headache for area units on nights....many newly qualified ATCOs are only valid on one sector group (say, North Sea), and so when it gets quiet enough to bandbox on to Clacton (for example), those only valid on North Sea cannot work.

[Midland 331]

My other thought on this were that all the outbound R/T was squirting out on all of the sectors' frequencies, as transmissions such as the one I've mentioned (i.e., clearly not for that sector) were ground-to-air, and the response not audible, although within range of "the listening post".

(But, then again, what do I know?)

r

[Talkdownman]

Gonze, you're welcome to look at my licence as was 76-82.
Radars and Wings: CLN/TMA/DTY/DTY LOW/LIC/POL/IRS
Wings: BRS/20/23/DVR/LYD/SFD/WOR/HUR
Procedural: S25/S25E N. SEA
FIR N/E/W + DFR
Not unusual to bandbox North down to one with crosscoupling facilities in the days when nights were slack. DANDI to the north, COA to the east, TOLKA to the west, WOD to the south.
Latterly CLN and DTY B/B onto TMA, NSEA, FIRN, IRS onto POL.
I remember it used to get cold at night, presumably because there was a mere fraction of people in the room. Strip transfer was usually by parabolic trajectory.

[Midland 331]

>Strip transfer was usually by parabolic trajectory.

Great to hear that we were in safe hands. :-)

Post-airline, one of my jobs was supplying radiopagers to LATCC. Apparently, ATCOs were famous for dropping them down the loo.

r

[Talkdownman]

So that's where it went.
And I thought I'd had a happy event..........

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<I would imagine it very improbable that someone had Clacton, North Sea, Daventry, Lakes, Bristol/Brecon etc etc validations at the same time, but I'm prepared to be corrected!>.
Blimey, Talkdownman, these kids haven't lived have they???? A "roomful" was not uncommon in the "old days" way before SSR, SMF and other clever toys... Men were men in those days.

PS. I hasten to add that I was never among those elite beings.... that yellow stripe down my back was too precious!

[Standard Noise]

Extreme "Bandboxing"
That looked like a promising title, you know the sort of thing, be-hatted ATCO's transmitting from the north face of the Eiger and all that.
Not to worry, back to sleep then....:zzz:

[Widger]

Heathrow Director,

Whilst not wishing to take any of your achievements from you, I think you will find that the rise in traffic levels in the past 5 years has been phenomenal. Additionally, sectorised ops, do not lend themselves easily to bandboxing, mainly because it takes so damn long to train in each sector.

Just to get a full lot of Westend, you will now need 6, 9, 5, 23, 25, 35 and 36, each one of those positions takes time as opposed to the good old days of just Berry Head and Bristol Strumble.

As the airspace gets busier, the sectors become more fragmented. South is next in March with the addition of Sector 22, yet another validation to achieve.

[Gonzo]

Yes, sorry, should have made it clear to the old guys :E, I was talking about the situation now, not back in the dark ages! :p

[Arkady]

The new sectors are confusing!!! S25 is LMS West not part of the BRS/STU/BHD group. If memory serves correctly the West End are now Sectors 5,6,8,9,23,35 and 36. And if I'm wrong I'm sure they'll be another smart@rse out there to put me right. :O

[Talkdownman]

I get the feeling that Midland 331 might have been around during some of those 'Dark Ages'..............
(But, then again, what does he, HD and I know?)
And if anybody is interested I have some very nice pictures (B & W, of course) of B watch, SATCC, August 1959......un-bandboxed.....

[Ppdude]

I am another smart arse, but you are right

[Midland 331]

1985-1994.

I guess that it's a bit different now.

My only contact with Swanwick was visiting on business circa 1996/7, when it seemed like some very posh and spaceous coffee bar with fancy gardens.

r

[Widger]

Smart arse!



My point remains the same.

My only contact with Swanwick was visiting on business circa 1996/7, when it seemed like some very posh and spaceous coffee bar with fancy gardens

It still is!

:ok:

[Gonzo]

Perhaps no longer posh though?

[Talkdownman]

331, that was after my time.
What is Swanwick................? :}

[Midland 331]

A landscaped Starbucks with some interesting team arcade games, so I understand.

r

[ayrprox]

bma331
i'm afraid long gone are the times when one controller at scottish does the high level sectors and one the low level ones at night. Equipment limitations, validations held and rising traffic numbers have put paid to that. Typically when its quiet,one controller controls high level from from aberdeen to the fir boundaries with copenhagen and maastricht, one controls low level ie tma antrim and tay, and one controller controls the rest of the high level sectors so in theory he is controlling from sumburgh all the way out to 10 west a total of five seperate sectors and about 400x250 miles. When the oceanic traffic kicks in then those obviously split. it becomes difficult up here to cover more as we do no have cross coupled frequencies, so pilots cannnot hear each other if they are on seperate frequencies, you can narrow those frequencies down by using those with the biggest coverage but you can still get three aircraft calling at once!! Also, radar coverage is a problem as we have to manually select the best radars because we don't have a mosaic radar picture where you get a composite picture made from the various radar inputs, we're still living in the past technology wise, still stroll on 2010 and the new centre with equipment only 20 years old!!.Personally i have 8 sectors (10 if you count the ones that split when busy) both radar and planner. the best direct routing we give these days is probably direct begok from 10 west.
:ok:

[Bandbox4Training]

Bandboxing, what's that? :p

[clicker]

"Bandboxing, what's that? "

When you get a collection of match boxes and wrap an elastic band to keep them all together. :E

... exit stage left at speed ...