Basic Training Manuals

[rickypbrown]

Hello. Just a quick note to ask, does anyone know of any good training books/manuals which would help with NATS ATCO training?

Cheers,

Ricky Brown

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Ricky.. There maybe such as thing, but I've never heard of it. Go to:
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?categoryid=33&pagetype=65&applicationid=11&mode=detail&id=222
Click "Open document in new window" and if you have ADOBE Reader installed you can read it and save it. It's the Manual of ATS Part 1 - the ATC Bible. You'll have to know a great deal of that so nothing like getting on with it now!
Best of luck..

[Gonzo]

Ricky,

It might help those who would wish to help you to know in more detail what you're seeking.

A general all-round 'textbook'? (no such thing I'm afraid) Or books covering specific areas you're struggling with (Nav, Met, Law etc?)

Are you at the College now?

Are you undergoing the selection process?

etc etc.
:ok:

[SACrIGGER]

A really good book to get to grips with met, is the Trevor Thom Law and Met PPL text book (ISBN-10: 1843360667 ).

It is the book that we use at the college to supplement our met lessons, and my course as a whole have found it very useful.

[rickypbrown]

Indeed, as a private pilot, I am prone to giving less information than is needed!

I have deferred entry to the college until June, 2007 so that I can finish a (pointless) degree in Teaching. Just wondered if I there were any manuals I could use to get a head-start on the training. I still have somewhere in the attic my PPL training manuals, but was wondering if there was anything out there more ATCO based.

Thank you for the link to the bible! I'll be sure to start ploughing my way through that! And thanks for all the other comments! Additionally, at the college do you get given a hard copy of CAP 493? Or would it be worth using university resources to print off a copy? ;)

Ricky.

[richyinnewcastle]

Sorry to hijack your thread ricky :).. I'm starting later this year too (another pointless degree :p) and I seem to remember at my interview one of the ATC's mentioning that one of the first tasks at the college is to learn a large list of A/C characteristics.. don't suppose anyone has a link for that one as I'm sure along with the bible HD supplied earlier it'll make some lovely evening reading..

:ok:

Thankyaaa

[Defruiter]

You will get given a hard copy of CAP493 when you start at the college.

As for the aircraft, again, you will be given this list once you start at the college. I have a powerpoint that people on my course created kicking about somewhere. If I find it, I will pass it on

DF

[rickypbrown]

No worries Richard. When do you start? And thanks for letting me know...still might waste uni resources!

[niknak]

Ricky,
I can assure you that a degree in teaching will get you absolutely nowhere as an ATCO, I would go as far as to say that if you really are serious about either profession, make a commitment now and stop fannying about.

If, 30 seconds after reading my post, you decide to go for the first ATCO training course which is avaliable, then you might just make it as an ATCO.

If not, stick to teaching, which is an admirable career choice, but not one given to a constantly changing working environment where every decision you make has to be correct, first time, every time.

I make absolutely no apology if that sounds harsh, but the truth is out there.

[Number2]

A little harsh niknak. Give the guy a break. He may as well finish the degree he's spent the last few years working on. I don't believe he's displaying a lack of commitment because he doesn't throw that all away to join NATS for 10k a year. With failure rates as they are, it's probably more sensible to have something to fall back on.

Good luck in June. You'll need it.

[ShuttleSixYankee]

On the contrary niknak, NATS advised me to finish my degree after being turned down last year. Re-applying at the moment, whilst finishing the degree.

[Married a Canadian]

Nik Nak

How many degrees are directly related to ATC?

We should start a thread for weird degrees before becoming an Atco. I would come pretty high up it with a joint honours in Economics and music.

I think the commitment to finish something you started is a laudable aim..and one that will help in ATC training.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Agree 10,000% with Niknak. Why waste time on something you may never use. Most degrees have little relevance to what people do later in life and I can't think of any which have any relevance to operational ATC. I have seen plenty of people with degrees fail in ATC and plenty of dummies (me for a start - 2 O levels) have a fantastic career..

Good luck anyway with whatever you do..

[Gonzo]

I don't see it as a waste. It's being sensible, if Ricky finishes in June, why quit now? At least it gives a fall back option.

Anyway Ricky, In your situation there's not a lot that would help to be honest. Perhaps have a search for a book by Graham Duke about UK ATC, that might give you a bit more background about it.

As for the MATS 1, it is a very dry publication, and easily mis-interpreted. By very wary of studying it too much before you have the benefit of the classroom lessons that the College provides.

[Arkady]

There are plenty of excellent ATCOs, some have degrees some do not. In Rickys case he will have a very useful qualification for an ATCO. One of the greatest weaknesses in NATS is the complete lack of education qualifications in the training side of the business. Almost every ATCO in NATS will be heavily involved in training through most of his/her career, yet selection does not take into account suitability for this role.

Ricky, your degree will only be pointless if you let it. Keep the text books and notes and be prepared to revisit them as you progress, for your benefit and for the benefit of your student ATCOs.

[AlanM]

niknak
Probably the best OJTI I have had was once a school teacher. He really got the point across. ATCOs lack training techniques - and a 5 day drinkathon in Bournemouth can only do so much - but that's another thread....

As you are so close to finishing, and NATS will hold your place, then finish it. You never know when it may come in handy.

Good luck.

Oh - and for all those that think that having a teaching degree is of little use ask GM LTCC what his previous jobs were.......

P.S. MAC>>> MUSIC?!!?! That explains a lot mate... (Sounds almost as boring as my Accounting with Law...... zzzzz)

[fly bhoy]

I'm another one with a pointless degree (Forensic and Analytical Chemistry!!!:confused: :8 ), but if I had to start over I'd do it all the same again, as there's no guarantee of success in ATC until your first validation.It is good to have something to fall back on just in case.

A good book to look through is Air Traffic Control by Graham Duke, but its fairly basic and wouldn't be used as a training manual at the college. Its brilliant for putting things in laymans terms though and if you've not started at the college it gives a fairly reasonable grounding for understanding the more difficult subjects when you get there.

FB:ok:

[anotherthing]

Ricky

some of the best advice so far has come late in this thread - that is finish your degree.

Do not listen to the likes of NikNak, HD et al.... you just need to search previous threads to see these and other people whingeing about todays youth and it's lack of standards compared to days gone by.

They whinge and complain about todays youngsters (who have been brought up in the computer age), asking for advice on the internet instead of going down to the library etc... then they tell you to throw away a degree you have already done the majority of work for!! Fools IMHO and very, very poor advice.

One of the whinges about todays youth is the lack of commitment - something throwing your degree away would display admirably.

NATS is a good employer, but it could do many things better, including OJTI selection and training (though given the resources and limited leeway he has, Adrian Bowden and his team do marvels)... there are many 'pointless' degrees out there - a skill in teaching is, as Alan M points out, more worthwhile than most in ATC.

The NATS course is not easy, and given the restructuring of the course, some would say it is more difficult for someone off the street to validate now (no 3 year cadetships where you get to learn the ropes properly etc etc); you would be stupid not to have something to fall back on as it is so very nearly complete.

Good luck when you go to the college, and with your degree

[Mutsilver]

I must agree with the members that suggest / advise you finish your degree.

Let me put a brief scenario across.

'You quit your degree, you join the ATCO training system, qualify, a few years working and then you become ill! It could be an accident, or long term medical issue which renders your medical from the CAA void (with no option of renewal)! You are a human being, it can happen. This is a realistic scenerio.'

What would you do for employment? You could work within NATS, doing whatever but, there may not be the oppurtunity, or what is available may be the last thing you want to do!

Finish your degree. It is a 'fall-back' mechanism. It shows a high level of commitment, a high level of education and a wide variety of transferable skills, these are obviously all useful life skills, surely required in a busy NATS environment.

It will do no harm to complete your Higher Education. Education is the key to a successful society, a teaching degree is not pointless, even if you never use it.

[spekesoftly]

I think it's all too easy to dismiss a particular degree subject as being irrelevant to ATC. There's a lot more to be gained from time at University than just the academics (no, I'm not just referring to an energetic social life!). Having seen the opportunities and activities available to our two daughters when they went through Uni, some years ago, I'm convinced is was a valuable experience, no matter what career they subsequently chose to follow.

[rickypbrown]

Thank you all. My my, this thread has taken an entirely different path to my initial intentions!

Don't worry, I will be finishing my teaching degree; not because I only have only 3 months left, but because additionally it will stand me in an extremely good stead both within NATS, if I'm successful or in other careers if I do not qualify, especially as I plan to do my best to become an OJTI.

Believe me, I am extremely commited to being an ATCO. Aviation has been my life since I was very young indeed and a career in aviation has always been my goal. However, having as many strings to your bow as possible makes a more rounded individual - or that is what the NATS interviewers told me when they were impressed with the maturity with which I made my decisions. Doing the teaching degree has not only increased career security but, as has been aforementioned in this thread, has taught me many skills which will no doubt prove useful in my career as an ATCO, which I would not have possessed had I not started the degree.

I understand, in my initial thread I said that my degree seemed pointless- but that is only because I am itching to start training and do something I know I will truly love. You cannot even begin to understand Nic Nac how long and hard I have spent thinking about this; arguing the points for continuing and finishing my degree when every part of my body wants to start as an ATCO, but then common sense kicks in and always sways me round to this way of thinking...I can start in June as an ATCO with a degree, or start 3 months earlier, without. For the sake of 3 months, I don't think it's a sensible idea to throw away something I have worked hard for over the last 3 and 3/4 years.

Please do not think that this shows a lack of commitment. I am whole-heartedly and entirely commited to becoming the best ATCO I could possibly be.

[CRC]

I recommend all my students obtain a copy of
Michael S. Nolan's "Fundamentals of Air Traffic Control"
(Brooks/Cole Pub. Co - Publication date Aug 2004 - 4th edition)
ISBN - 10: 0534393888 / ISBN -13: 97805349885

It may be 'FAA/american' but the basics are extremely well presented.

Regards,
CRC

[Singe]

Did you get your degree, did you go to NATS?
Come on, what's the score. I need to know.

[Dances with Boffins]

Well, there is a Ricky Brown currently doing the TATC-Tango at Hurn, so I guess he decided to stick with the ATCO thing. He's rattling through the Airports course at the moment, so will be pitching up at either an aerodrome under the LTMA in May or elsewhere in UK around September.

Go Ricky:ok:

Hope you got the teaching degree. We could do with a few more good teachers in the company.

[Ivor_Novello]

There is not a lot you can do with an ATCO qualification and no medical, on the other hand there's a lot you can do with a teaching degree and no medical.

Also you don't know if you still want to be an ATCO in 10 years time.
I loved my teaching job when I started, and that was only 4 years ago.

Ricky if you have a PPL you shouldn't worry too much about CAP493, or pre college studies... In my many visits at the NATS units I always mentioned I had a PPL, to save them from explaining basic things but they still thought I wouldn't know how to read a METAR etc etc... I know some PPLs have shocking R/T because they never get away from their comfort areas, but if you get frequently in and out of CAS the whole R/T subject shouldn't be too much of a problem.