Captain America and more Emirates P.R.

[uplock]

Looks like the EK PR Department are at it again Full page article in the Chicargo Tribune here (http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0702040344feb04,0,3146572.story)
in part For the first time since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, all major U.S. airlines are hiring pilots or recalling those laid off during the industry's five-year downturn.

But the airlines are discovering that many of the 10,000 pilots who lost their jobs during those bleak years aren't interested in returning to their old lives.

Many pilots, faced with salary cuts of 35 percent or more, moved to overseas carriers, such as Emirates Airline and Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. Others took higher-paying jobs with overnight carriers such as FedEx Corp. and United Parcel Service Inc.

Joe Marquardt, 50, left a 17-year career at Northwest Airlines last year for Emirates, as the Minnesota-based carrier phased out the DC-9 jets he flew.

He already had lost one-third of his salary in pay cuts, Marquardt said, and he faced a demotion to a smaller plane, which would mean another pay reduction.

"It got to the point where we couldn't keep the house," Marquardt said.
Now, Marquardt enjoys a life of golf and beachcombing in Dubai, as well as the free housing provided by Emirates, which employs him as a Boeing 777 captain."It's hard to match that back home," Marquardt said.

Even so, old-line carriers no longer can claim a monopoly on hiring the best and the brightest pilots.

The best recruiters, the overseas airliners are discovering, are the pilots themselves. Marquardt, for one, has started a blog for pilots pondering following in his footsteps.

http://jetcareers.com/images/avatars/avatar2467_13.gifhttp://jetcareers.com/images/avatars/avatar2467_13.gifhttp://jetcareers.com/images/avatars/avatar2467_13.gifhttp://jetcareers.com/images/avatars/avatar2467_13.gif

[MR8]

Well. these people have the right to feel how they feel. I think there is a big difference between the bloke here and Captain America. At least this guy isn't trying to defend himself with dual identities and saying nice things about himself pretending to be someone else.
Where Captain America was (is) just a patethic looser and liar, this guy might just like it here.
I did however try to find his blog, just wondering if it's all sunshine and honeymoon sweetness, or is the guy also writing about the undeniable negative aspects of Dubai? So if anybody knows about the blog, please post the address here, or pm me if you think it's unappropriate to link it in public..

MR8

[typhoonpilot]

Hey uplock, you spelled Chicargo just like my dad used to teach. Chicken on the car, car won't go, that's how you spell ChiCAgo. Said in his best New York accent of course :ok:


TP

[akerosid]

In fairness to EK, it's not hard to believe stories like this. NW, after all, is an airline that put out advice to employees which advocated delving into dumpsters for food! By all accounts, morale at this airline in particular - whatever about others - is very poor.

[Capt737AA]

I tried to find the blog on google with no luck.

Anyone else have some info on the supposed blog?

Pat

[145qrh]

So DC9 to 777....well done Capt Joe....Is this the level of experience that EK are now down to?....

EK must base recruitment on how much good PR these folks can generate, how sad, used to be on ability:ugh: :ugh:

[Scooter Rassmussin]

:{ At age 50 working 10 years for EK will shave 10-20 years of his life, no need for a retirement fund .....

[Wizofoz]

Scooter,
A quick check shows that you've been bitching about EK since 2005. Surley enough time to find alternate employment?:confused:

146qrh,

Just to confirm, you are using this public web-site to impune this gentlemans ability?

[Ahad Adump]

wizofoz

I will impune his ability.
He is a load mouth and his biggest sin is ........ he plays golf with sandals.

[Scooter Rassmussin]

Well bad luck Wiz cause I have a new job and im pretty sure its the same place you are at.
Your right the middle east is a disaster and im proud to be outta here.........

[Trashed Aviator]

Isnt the thread supposed to be about this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq2_YKQGE_U

Where did ya go scoot cause im bustin to get outta here.........

[Wizofoz]

In that case, Scoot, the words "Frying Pan" and "Fire" spring to mind!!

[Trashed Aviator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIAQifqS96M&mode=related&search=
This one's about the driving in Dubai. Unfortunately its mostly the innocent ones getting killed.
Deny this Captain America,maybe when ED takes the fall for the lack of recruits, even though its caused by the incompetent upper management , but a white boy has to take the blame for it , you can have his job. And boy you will need a mighty shield.

[tbaylx]

145QRH,
Yeah,really scraping the bottom of the barrel there, cause obviously a DC 9 driver who has been with a US major for 17 years has no clue how to operate a jet and would clearly be a huge liability. Guess all the good 777 recruits magically were born flying on type and have decades of experience.

[Wizofoz]

I think you'll find that to be a DC9 Captain at a US legacy carrier, he's flown every thing with wings as an FO (Not to mention that I believe he's an ex U2 Pilot!!).

The whole DEC question may be contentious, but to let it run over into questioning a guys ability just because he answers a reporters questions is not cricket (or Baseball either!).

[145qrh]

No one is questioning his ability, well I am not, but as Seaman said he has little or no relevant expereince, EK needs relevant expereince. U2 pilot , :confused: great, if we ever need to take overhead shots of the places we fly to otherwise not much good. As for everthing with wings I pretty much doubt that he flew them in command .

Emirates lacks experience at the moment, over half the 777 crew have been with EK less than 18 months , and most of them had no longhall, or heavy jet before joining .

So where does that leave us....up effluent creek without a human interface self power unit...no doubt as ED, sorry CAPT Ed would say in Americanese

The Americas seem to be a fertile recruiting gound for Ek at them moment, for which I have no beef, but it screws the rest out of a descent payrise as they are willing to work for piss poor T's and C's, and seem to be happy with that because its better than back home. They seem to miss the fact that although it's better than home it's not the going rate for the job.

Roll on the revolution.:)

[411A]

It is not likely to change, guys.
If EK needs direct entry Captains, they will hire 'em, like it or not.
Notice I said CAPTAINS.
Not co-pilots, upgrading to the LHS.
If, on the other hand, you had wanted to be a Captain at EK, you should have hired in as one...not complain now that you didn't.:rolleyes:

[typhoonpilot]

The Americas seem to be a fertile recruiting gound for Ek at them moment, for which I have no beef, but it screws the rest out of a descent payrise as they are willing to work for piss poor T's and C's, and seem to be happy with that because its better than back home. They seem to miss the fact that although it's better than home it's not the going rate for the job.


Hmmm, just looking at numbers here for a second. In 2004 the pay raise was 1.5%. That year the hiring demographic was primarily English, Australian, and Canadian. Maybe that was the year Australians were banned, but the point is that it wasn't a lot of Americans. Since larger numbers of Americans have started coming the pay raises have been 7, 8, and now 6 percent. Just scratching my head and doing the math here, but it would appear that the English and Australians kept the pay very low for a long time by turning up in huge numbers. So while you were willing to work for significantly lower T & Cs when you joined, it's now the American's fault for you not getting a 20% pay raise :confused: :yuk:


TP

[uplock]

:) Hey TP I used my spill chucker this time...

Depends which numbers you would like to look at and what side of the pond your from:ok:

Where most of us have taken huge broad sides and direct hits has been the devaluation of the American Dollar against the Euro and The Pound and the Australian , New Zealand and Canadian Dollars.

With the AED or Dirham tied to the US $ it has been a pay rise for those who have assets or income back in the States.

On paper it looks like a pay rise ... and yes your doing ok if your from the US however in real terms my buying power today is much less than what it was when I joined ( over 30% less) due to the exchange rate and this sucks.

[ruserious]

I think you'll find that to be a DC9 Captain at a US legacy carrier, he's flown every thing with wings as an FO (Not to mention that I believe he's an ex U2 Pilot!!).

Oh FFS are all you lot as thick as your president :\ . Successfully operating a modern airliner, on a significantly diverse route structure is not about whether you have lots of Chuck Yeager'ish skill flying a Beaver/DC9/737/U2 aircraft in the US. Its about relevant domain experience, that's what many of our new DEC's are missing, it takes time to get, pure and simple. There is no doubt its not brain surgery, but you would not give a brain surgeon the job of heading up an orthopedics department.

[ruserious]

Talking about domain experience, here is an up to date list of our destinations, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_destinations If you are bored count the Continents, Countries, languages, FIR's, regulators, war zones and members of the axis of evil :eek:

Edited with a link instead of a long list, due to comments below

[411A]

<<....but it would appear that the English and Australians kept the pay very low for a long time by turning up in huge numbers.>>

The same was true at SQ in the late 1970's, and it lasted quite a long time.
Wherever the Brits (especially) have worked, the wages are many times less than satisfactory.
Hardly surprising.:ugh:

[TangoUniform]

ruserious,
rufrigginserious? http://www.nwa.com/travel/world/frommers/destination_search.html Take a look, pal, at the NWA destinations. Do you really think this guy only flew DC-9s for his entire career? Using your logic then there should be NO upgrades here unless you have flown captain on the Boeing or Airbus previously in the theaters you mention. And whether or not a U2 pilot has what it takes.......He probably has forgotten more about flying than you will ever know. Give it up, ruserious, no one will ever be good enough or qualified enough for your little prejudices.

[jumbo1]

Ruserious and others,
While I am no friend of the DEC program at all, (I am totally opposed to it), constant ranting about this American has only flown DC_9's around the US etc smacks of ignorance. Not being from the US I have a friend at Northwest who is now an A320 Captain. In a previous life (as an FO, SO) he has flown internationally on wide body aircraft, to a large destination base. In fact I met him at an international destination and ruined his liver(remember those days?) These guys probably also have more high altitude/adverse,cold weather experience than our company put together. Everyone has something to offer/add to all of us.
Guys get over your prejudice and get on with it. When you came here (from your LCC - oops I'm being prejudiced) did you have the relevant experience? I didn't think so. DO your job as the professional that I hope you are and get on with it. When you fly with a DEC who has never flown through Nicosia, help him out - you are on the flight deck too. When you got here the Captains you flew with helped and guided you in unfamiliar areas. Guys, don't slate others' abilities/character etc when you know nothing about them. Lets stand together (I doubt it's possible) as flightcrew and ensure a safe, professional environment.
As a closer - not one person in this company when they leave EK will have the slightest compunction about going to a new company as a DEC, be it Korean, Easyjet, Jetstar, Jet Airways, China Air etc etc. You know this to be true. The company is at fault, not the individual!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Take care out there and watch your backs fellas. The little knives are sharp!
Jumbo
:ok:

[Trashed Aviator]

But NWA doesnt fly to Australia and thats where all the best pilots come from...

[max AB]

C'mon mate this is a Rumour site...don't post obvious facts here..

[BBJ King]

Boys, this is getting embarrasing. What about mutual support? It's our job to keep some dignity left is this business...

[ruserious]

When you came here (from your LCC - oops I'm being prejudiced) did you have the relevant experience?
No I did not, that's why I started as an F/O and did my prerequisite 4 years in the right hand seat before upgrade (and that was before LCC where around in Europe :) )

While there is no doubt you can name plenty of DC9 Captains who have significant international experience, the FACT is the vast majority of DEC's arriving here do not. Ask any F/O who has to fly with them just how much support they have to give. While some support is inevitable in a new domain, the Captain needs to have relevant domain experience and be the quality control on the aircraft. The reason for this is simply, he may not always get an F/O who is experienced on the route, network or aircraft.

Fundamentally its all about situation awareness and decision making. How can you make good decisions in a challenging environment, without significant domain experience. Again just ask your president :ugh:

[MR8]

I don't know this guy. I have no idea what his experience level is, and I will not attack someone for joining EK as a DEC. If somebody is against this whole DEC stuff, hell, it will be me. But why blame the guys for taking a shot at a DEC position if one is being offered. Again, (how many time has this been written before?) the only one to blame is the company for offering the DEC positions!!
ruserious, I do get you. Actually, I completely agree with you.
What is the relevant experience of Capt. AMerica? Think he was briefly a FO on the 767, flying across the US, coast to coast, probably with the odd trip ALL WAY into Mexico!! And... erh... that's it!
Or do you guys remember that Brazilian guy who had a hard GPWS in Nairobi about 2 years ago... think he wasn't used to work with Jep plates and found himself very close to that mountain just left of centerline on the 06. (Coming in from Entebbe).
Or how many of us FO's have felt ashamed by the lack of captaincy shown at any European outstation where de-icing/anti-icing was required?
What about this DEC B777, young guy, never flew anything else then Air Berlin B737. WHat's he doing in OUR left seat?
But although I get completely p1$$3d off by this, I still can't blame the individual. It's different though when one of these DEC's starts giving interviews with a load of BS, (Which floor is the concierge level anyway???), trying to lure his countrymen into EK based on lies, just for personal benefits. I did have a personal discussion with Capt America about the DEC program, and he does absolutely disgust me. He actually believes he it God's gift to EK flight ops, and we are in need of his (in my opinion lack of) experience!
Again, I can't find anything of that in this interview, just an opinion about life in Dubai, and he obviously likes it here...
I do wish to find that blog though.... Anyone????
MR8

[chinawladi]

Isn't there a thing called "confidential crew performance report" or similar?
As long as this wh****r, or any low performing DEC, doesn't get loads of such, there's only us to blame. Admittedly it's not a fine thing to do, but should prove more effective than just bitching around here. If there's hard facts, we (and i include myself) should have the balls to speak up. :}
Just my 5 cents.

[MR8]

china,

I'm not going to report someone behind his back to the company because he isn't the smooth operator I expect him to be... You can only use those things when:
1. something went quite wrong
2. you did confront the guy with your problems towards the situation
3. he doesn't want to accept anything happened

Again, MOST of the DEC's are very nice guys, quite a few lack the experience, but it's NOT their fault. They have been given an opportunity and took it, I would most probably have done the same thing. It's just, live low profile and don't start patronizing people because you're brought in as a hot shot DEC, all way from the US of A....

MR8

[chinawladi]

10/4, MR8.
However by the rant of some guys, your points 1 + 3 were insinuated, thus my remark.
Only reflection to your remarks:
You sort of connect lack of experience to smooth operation. That would not be a problem, beeing still safe. This lack however may very suddenly turn into point 1. Then point 2 applies, definitely, or you run out of credibility and professionalism. If point 3 then appears, a report is stringent, in the name of safety.

[orangutan]

Actually this guy was on the DC-10. Northwest began phasing out the 10 last year. The DC-9 is the smallest Northwest has, so there's no way he could have been getting bumped down to something smaller than that.

[145qrh]

Yup he was on the Dc10, as a F/o.

But it's not about him as a person, or a pilot , it's about the mess that EK has got itself into. I have no compaint when we have a genuine need for DEC's( my next job will be as one...somewhere) , I'm pretty sure that we could have got away with many fewer, but if you are going to take them at least make sure they have relevant expeceince...and we have taken quite a few who have been rated and current on type...one particular 777 Capt springs to mind ex-American Airlines, really nice guy,no longer with EK..... I dont think he will be writing recruitement articles in the Chicago Post or Washington Times..

[Thylakoid]

The company is happy with the DECs. They hire them, regardless of the relevant experience, give them minimum training and then, put them to fly with the more senior F/os. The F/o will finish their training for free:}

[ruserious]

Yep, when it all comes down to it, its all about minimum (short term) cost to the organisation

[TangoUniform]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/report.php?p=3126907) DEC
The company is happy with the DECs. They hire them, regardless of the relevant experience, give them minimum training and then, put them to fly with the more senior F/os. The F/o will finish their training for free:}

Minimum training? 26 sectors and over 120 hours? Senior F/Os? Most I have flown with have been here for less time than I.

And back to our NWA pilot. The company would not have hired him as a DEC without the requisite glass experience on the Boeing or Airbus, believe it. So here's the question. Since the DEC program is a reality (and will be winding down for awhile in April), what, pray tell, would you consider adequate experience? In other words, would only prior 777 or 330 captains from SIA or KAL be sufficient? But wait, they may not have the experience to fly the Atlantic. Perhaps if your first language is not English that should disqualify you also. Maybe only former Gulf Air or Ethihad, English only speaking TRE/TRIs that used to work in Oz who learned their flying not in the military but in the UK, who.....nevermind. A DEC will never be qualified enough in the eyes of some.

[L1011]

Tried to stay out of this (rather shrill) thread, but finally someone got my goat.
TU - guess you are a relative newbie - judging by your posts. A quick history lesson for you buddy.
EK did hire DECs - a long time in the days of the 310. It was done because the airline was small and we needed the experience. The guys who came in had to be type rated - that was the whole point. They were a diverse bunch - Canucks, Yanks (ex-Saudia and SQ) Jamaicans, Kenyans, Brits etc. I flew with many of them - good people on the whole and I learnt a lot from them.
When we had the critical mass to promote from within, that's what we did. GJ set the policy, bless his socks.
This time around it is a different story. It is being done now because the Redhead screwed it up, and won't admit his mistake. TCAS doesn't care and Ed is using it to build his powerbase. (Just wait and see who the next DCPA will be - a Yank is my bet).
The manner in which it is being done and lthe lack of planning is what is driving me nuts. There are scores of competent pilots in the right seat who are being discrminated against due to this short sighted and opportunistic policy. Some of them have as much LHS time as Ed's buddies. What ru and some of us are trying to do is speak up for these guys. It really doesn't make a bit of difference to me. I am appalled at what is being done in the name of expedience and wondering what has happened to a once fine company.
Rant over.

[ruserious]

But it was a well founded rant, all the same. :ok:

[Trashed Aviator]

It seems for sure there will be no way to crew the EK Expansion .

[MR8]

145qrh,

You're saying that this guy was on the DC10 as a FO. In that case he does NOT meet the DEC criteria. No matter how much command you have had before, you must be a captain when joining EK in order to be eligible for DEC.

TangUniform,
And back to our NWA pilot. The company would not have hired him as a DEC without the requisite glass experience on the Boeing or Airbus, believe it.
I don't believe you... Actually, did you ever fly with that Zim DEC? As far as I know, he joined EK with only B747 classic and DC8. Never flew pax, never flew without a flight engineer, never seen a glass cockpit... I stand to be corrected though.

You know when the company is scr3w1ng up big time when they don't care about the requirements anymore.
Since about a year, we are advertising for DEC's with min 8000TT, while the FOM states the minimum is 10000TT!!
This whole DEC program is taking the airline down. Experienced FO's do not want to come anymore: their career path is to uncertain. A lot of the current EK FO's are disgusted by the way they have been treated and are looking for a way out. And although EK loves to patronize it's FO's, you still can't fly aircraft without them. But these things you won't find in the papers...

MR8

PS: Anyone success with the yanks blog??

[atiuta]

Interesting figures here...

DC-9-10 90,700 lb (41,100 kg)
DC-9-21 98,000 lb (44,500 kg)
DC-9-30 110,000 lb (49,900 kg)
DC-9-40 114,000 lb (51,700 kg)
DC-9-50 121,000 lb (54,900 kg)

Max takeoff weight if you were wondering

[Mysalami]

With Jobs Scarce, U.S. Pilots Sign On At Foreign Airlines
By Susan Carey in Chicago, Bruce Stanley in Hong Kong, and John Larkin in Mumbai
Word Count: 1,959 | Companies Featured in This Article: US Airways, Cathay Pacific Airways, Singapore Airlines, Northwest Airlines, Japan Airlines, China Southern Airlines
Nearly two years ago, at age 51, Brian Murray took early retirement from US Airways. The pilot was outraged by the airline's termination of his pension plan and worried about his future with a carrier sliding toward bankruptcy court for the second time.
But Capt. Murray's flying career was far from over. Today he lives in Dubai and flies wide-body Airbus A330s for fast-growing Emirates Airlines, winging to exotic destinations in Europe, Africa and Asia. He's home more than he ever was at US Airways, and his total compensation package -- including health care, housing allowance, retirement plan and vacation ...
• THE FULL WSJ.com ARTICLE IS ONLY AVAILABLE TO SUBSCRIBERS.• IF YOU ARE ALREADY A SUBSCRIBER, PLEASE LOG IN AT THE TOP RIGHT OF THE PAGE.

I was emailed this from a friend flying heavy metal in the states asking if it was all true. Unfortunately you have to subscribe to read the full article. But I guess you can work out what its all about.

I had the pleasure of meeting a Kiwi EK HR type a little while ago. He went to great pains to explain to me how he use to be a pilot but found it not very challenging and decided to hand in his wings and go HR instead. He seemed quite confident that there are plenty of CRJ (and equivalent) pilots out there that are only too willing to fly for EK. When I mentioned that these were a bit different from the pilots that EK targeted in the past, he said it did not matter much as commands are expected to take 7 plus years now for new joiners.

[uplock]

Full article featuring The Real Captain America still can be read online in full here (http://www.jobbankusa.com/News/Jobs/jobs_scarce_pilots_sign_foreign_airlines.html)

May 8, 2006

Pilots Needed: Travel Required (http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/briefs/192184-1.html)
By Russ Niles, Newswriter, Editor

It may be the ultimate irony that airline pilots can easily find lucrative jobs -- as long as they're willing to travel. According to a recent report in The Wall Street Journal, American pilots are flying the coop on cash-starved, morale-depressed, pension-gutting domestic carriers and landing high-paying jobs in Singapore, Hong Kong and Dubai. Former U.S. Airways pilot Brian Murray now works for Emirates Airlines and says it's like returning to the Golden Age of aviation in the U.S. He told the Journal that pilots are "treated with respect in this part of the world. We're driven to work. We're put in four- and five-star hotels, on the concierge floors. Captains are treated as vice presidents of the organization." And there's no shortage of work.

[PITA]

For Christ' s sake boys and girls, this subject is old news and I for one am sick of reading about it. Yes the man screwed the pooch. Get over it already and move on.
Now get back to the subject.

[Marooned]

The fact is that EK have taken the cheap, short term route to its crewing problem... a route which was unnecessary, which is divisive and will be more expensive in the long term... short term gain - long term pain.

Whether they like it or not the DEC policy has produced lower experience pilots than they intended to recruit. We wanted glass-intercontinental-heavy jet pilots but they are simply not what we have got primarily due to the price EK is prepared to pay.

It is a misguided policy that, in conjunction with others, has taken EK from a once admired long term primary career to a contingency/short term one... the resignation files confirm this.

[sandkfir]

I had heard about this last year when I posted this.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2990547&postcount=219
It is an orchestrated campaign to drum up a bit of interest in the USA. To me it smacks of desparation. How sad that it has come to this.

[Saltaire]

Nail on the :ugh: Marooned. Exactly right. They will pay and it's showing in resignations and lack of decent recruits. It's now just a mish mash airline. Loyality is completely gone. Well done.