Body found in landing gear bay on BA B744 @ LAX

[4HolerPoler]

A terrible way to die -

The body of a male stowaway was found in the wheel well of a British Airways jet at Los Angeles International Airport, officials said. A pilot discovered the body of the young man in the front right wheel well of the 747-400 during a routine inspection shortly before it was to return to London on Sunday, airport spokesperson Nancy Castles said. The FBI determined the stowaway likely died in the wheel well, Castles said. Post-mortem results won't be available until later this week. Authorities had not identified the victim late on Sunday. The aircraft, British Airways Flight 283, had arrived from London Heathrow Airport at 15:15 (23:14 GMT) and was scheduled to depart at 17:20 (01:20 GMT Monday). The airline notified officials of the discovery just before 16:30 (00:30 GMT Monday), Castles said.

Investigators were trying to determine where the stowaway boarded the plane. "These aircraft don't go on a fixed route," said Alan Proud, a spokesperson for British Airways. "It would have been somewhere else in the world before that. That's part of the investigation, to look at where the aircraft had been before." On January 12, the body of a young African man was discovered in the wheel well of a Delta plane that landed in Atlanta from Dakar, Senegal. Authorities determined that the man hid in the plane in Senegal and was suffocated to death by the landing gear.

[747-436]

It would be highly unlikely that the stowaway came on at Heathrow so he could have been in there a while!!
Lucky it didn't drop out when the gear came down!

[ORAC]

.....Authorities said the youth was black and had documents identifying him as a South African national born in 1989.....

[Taildragger67]

It would be highly unlikely that the stowaway came on at Heathrow so he could have been in there a while!!
Lucky it didn't drop out when the gear came down!

So logically he's been into and out of EGLL at least once. Could one not reasonably ask why he was not detected there? :eek:

But indeed, not a good way to go.

[ChristiaanJ]

It would be highly unlikely that the stowaway came on at Heathrow so he could have been in there a while!!
Lucky it didn't drop out when the gear came down!That's happened too....
Sorry, no link, but not very long ago a body was found in a field under the LHR approach path. Almost certainly fell out when the gear was lowered.

Poor desperate people.....

[TopBunk]

The LAX flights depart from LHR Terminal 1, as do those to JNB, NRT and HKG. Most of the time the aircraft will carry out rotations from T1; so an ealry morning arrival from HKG or JNB will be scheduled out to NRT or LAX.

I would therefore not be surprised if the unfortunate young man originated in JNB.

[TheOddOne]

We had a spate of these at LGW a few years ago - 3 in fact, do things really go in threes?

2 were dangling from noselegs - bad enough for me who had to attend but worst I think for the ground crew meeting the aircraft to be confronted with the body as the a/c taxies on to stand. The 3rd was found on the runway, obviously falling out as the gear doors recycled on departure. Particularly rotten for our staff who only had it reported to them as debris on the runway. It was even worse as it was Christmas Day.

The one that got to me was a 12-yr old boy from Nairobi; having young children myeslf. A Police Inspector from Gatwick went out to Nairobi to try and get information and ensure the next-of-kin were informed but was given no help at all from the Kenyan authorities; just another death amongst so many, it seems.

There needs to be a world-wide education campaign telling everyone that this doesn't work; you will die, most probably from being crushed as the gear retracts. There looks to be heaps of room with the gear down but it all disappears on retraction. If that doesn't get you, hypoxia and hypothermia will.

TheOddOne

[Cuillin]

I remember the Gatwick one on Christmas Day 2000, OddOne.

Departing BA 777 on 08R. Aircraft had earlier come in from Africa. He had not been spotted on the turnround at LGW. Took some time before he was moved from 26L threshold. I suppose Coroners are difficult to get hold of on Christmas morning.

On Africa night departures I always leave all the taxi/exit lights on in order to have a fighting chance of spotting them if they run out.They are most likely to give it a go as you are sat at the holding point for departure.

Very, very sad.

[HAWK21M]

Lack of Knowledge of MWW Clearences,Retracting Gears & Pressurisation requirements a cause here.
Sad Case.
I've seen Birds in MWWs on Arrival.Hoping never to notice a case like this ever.
regds
MEL

[bomarc]

while this is certainly a sad situation, the bigger question is:

how bad is security and preflight inspections that people have access to the plane...this person could have easily put a bomb onboard as himself.

does anyone else remember world airways evacuating Vietnam and people hanging from the landing gear...the pilots wisely kept it extended and flew low and slow.

[Carnage Matey!]

I take it you don't fly to Africa often? Plenty of places for the stowaway to get through the perimeter fence and run to the aircraft.

[Taildragger67]

while this is certainly a sad situation, the bigger question is:

how bad is security and preflight inspections that people have access to the plane...this person could have easily put a bomb onboard as himself.

My point exactly, but also - assuming the unfortunate individual had got himself into the wheel well at an out-station, how was he not detected when the a/c got back to base?

It's not only the getting through the perimeter fence I'm asking about, but also the checks at subsequent stations. By all concerned.

[Carnage Matey!]

It rather depends where the body is. The 744 wheel well is very big, can be very dark and much of it is not visible from the ground. Easy to miss something.

[rhythm method]

But if the aircraft then transited LHR en-route to LAX, does this not imply that a thorough external pre-flight check was not carried out? Surely, both the PF and the ground crew perform a walkround prior to each and every departure?
Obviously I have never flown anything as big as a 744, so perhaps there are hiding places 'out-of-sight' in the gear bay?
Nasty way to go though. :uhoh:

EDITED as I see others were answering the same question I was in the process of posting.

[Gonzo]

People do try and stow away at Heathrow.

I remember working when a BA 747 was lined up on the threshold of 27L about to go, and another a/c waiting at the hold came on frequency warning of a man who had scaled the perimeter fence by Hatton Cross and was sprinting towards the 747. The man disappeared up into the nosewheel bay.

Eventually he was apprehended by a combined Police and Airport Ops rugby scrum!

[primreamer]

In all probability a thorough pre flight inspection was carried out at LHR prior to departure by engineering/flight crew and indeed at the down route stations that the aircraft previously visited. The fact that a stowaway remained undetected does not mean these checks were actioned without due care. On most large passenger aircraft, with the exception of the B737, it is simply not possible to see into the wheel wells from ground level with the gear doors closed. Even with access steps positioned your view is still limited in many cases. The only sure way to see is to open the gear doors and this is not usually a routine requirement on pre flight/transit checks.

[Flip Flop Flyer]

The only sure way to see is to open the gear doors and this is not usually a routine requirement on pre flight/transit checks.
Therefore, a procedure whereby the gear bay doors are cycled should perhaps be considered? Or is this an impractical proposition? Could it, at the very least, be done on a regular basis when flights return to home base from places where stowaways have historically originated from?

A former ******** 747 skipper of my acquiantance, departing out of somewhere in Africa, received a message from ATC warning him of a possible stowaway, requesting he returned. As they'd been in the cruise for more than 1 hour, and was somewhere off the west coast of Africa, he found it impossible that the stowaway, if indeed onboard, would still be alive. So he reduced to max gear speed, cycled the gear, and continued on his way. Well, we were both drunk when he told the story, so could very well have been telling porkies. But what would you do in similar circumstances?

[Carnage Matey!]

Well I certainly wouldn't have considered the option of commiting murder by dropping the poor bugger out of the gear bay.

[TopBunk]

On the assumption that this young man did not originate in London, he had already remained in situ through at least one gear cycling event, so on that basis probably not worth cycling the gear in flight (to say nothing about the noise and upset it would cause the pax).

Best course of action, imho, would be to notify the authorities through company. They may then wish to send up a helicopter to observe the gear lowering on arrival, they may even have it done over an open area rather than on approach at 2000ft in case a body drops out.

[HAWK21M]

The B744 MWW is massive.Also during transit checks the MLG doors arer retacted.100% of the MWW inside is not visable.A person can hide out there & yet not be noticed by Grd staff.
regds
MEL

[groundbum]

given the FAAs massive over-reaction to the 3 engine BA 744 at LAX, I wonder whether the pencil pushers are licking their lips at the thought of having another go. I bet they'll peek at the wheel well's of some 2 engine Boeing products, and if this seems like a solely 744 issue then they'll be pushing for extensive wheel well checks with stepladders and all at every stop......

nothing like helping the local team...

S

[JamesT73J]

A friend visited Cuba a couple of years ago. The crew made mention of the 4 x 4 that parked nearby to observe the aircraft's taxi and departure - so that no stowaways could make a run for it.

[Flying Lawyer]

Gatwick Xmas 2003 incident

The 777 had come in from Cuba. Notes found there showed the 2 stowaways intended to get to Florida; they probably chose the wrong aircraft.

It appeared from investigations that the stowaways had been hiding in long grass, avoided the security vehicle's lights (night departure) and climbed up the gear leg into the wheel-bay after it left the holding point and was turning slowly onto the runway - all under the eyes of two airport security guards whose job it was to make sure that didn't happen, or to stop the take-off if necessary.
As the pros will know, a 777’s wheel-bay doors open during gear operation and then close again with the gear down leaving a small gap around the leg – big enough for agile youngsters to use. Presumably, they lodged themselves securely in the wheel-well so they wouldn’t fall out when the doors opened to retract the gear.

BA had its own security around the aircraft the entire time it was at the gate from landing to departure, in addition to what the airport describes as its security. BA had repeatedly complained about airport security and, in particular, holes in the perimeter fence. BA's request to have its own vehicle/personnel follow the aircraft from the gate had been refused, but the airport arranged for a security vehicle to do so and to wait at the holding point until it departed.

If I recall correctly, the first body fell out on approach to LGW. It was thought that the second body defrosted and dislodged while the aircraft was at LGW overnight and fell into the bottom of the ‘U’ shape made by the closed doors. It wouldn't be visible during external checks.
It fell out when the gear was raised after take-off for Mexico the next day.

It is impossible to see down into the wheel-well from the ground. I checked during the course of preparing for the Inquest.

In theory, the doors could be cycled on the ground but that has its own risks. Doing so at an airport where there is no engineering support in the event of a problem during recycling isn’t a practical option.

[TURIN]

Well, the simple answer then is to get some engineering support. Get the job done properly as some airlines already do.
EG USAIR A330. All landing gear doors are extended each layover check for a thorough inspection. No risk as long as you have engineering personel (who know what they're doing) to carry out and certify the task.
The 747 body gear bay, by the way, is clearly visible with a good torch and an average size person standing on the wheel rim. The wing gear is another story.:ok:

[Pugilistic Animus]

Why not post lighted stickers in several languages in the well stating "you will die from suffocation and freezing or crush injury if you remain here after takeoff" in this area in a few locations?

I'm not trying to be silly, this is very sad.

[PAXboy]

Pax speaking
Turin All landing gear doors are extended each layover check for a thorough inspection. As I understand it, these problems have occurred after a turn-around, not a layover? That is, interpreting 'layover' as being one that involves very specific engineering checks when the a/c is at a base, rather than a two or three hour turn down line, such as JNB or NBO.

PA. You think that the stowaway will be able to read and that, even if they can, having got that far they are going to jump out again?

galacticosh As a Probationary PPRuNer, you should either learn some manners or you are being deliberately stupid.

[Farmer 1]

Why not post lighted stickers in several languages in the well stating "you will die from suffocation and freezing or crush injury if you remain here after takeoff" in this area in a few locations?A bit like the way they do it on cigarette packets, you mean?

Not being silly, or sarcastic, but I've no doubt it would have the same effect.

I agree, very sad.

[tiggermoth]

You would think that perhaps they could modify the design of the well so that it is somehow 'filled' when the wheels are down (be it an inflatable bladder, a flap, plunger - it could even be a cheap disposable system that is changed per flight) . Another idea may be to put a simple sensor in the well to detect the presence of a person or object (microswitches, PIR, strain gauges).

It's a terrible sad event, and the more that can be done to prevent it would be welcomed.

[PAXboy]

As I recall, the last time this subject was discussed in PPRuNe, there were suggestions of mini cameras and lights in the wheel wells. All of that will bring these questions from the operator: Who will pay? (and) Whose fault is it if people break through security fences and climb inside our a/c?

Getting information back to the countries where they try their luck is needed. With photographs of what they look like at the other end.

[ChristiaanJ]

I hate to be cynical, but....
These people mostly can't read....
Stickers in the wheel well would be too dark to see, and would be ignored.
Photos? These people don't read newspapers.
Put photos up at the airports, and on the fences? They would be torn down in no time by the intermediaries in this business, and by the security guards, that are getting paid for looking the other way, knowing full well there will never be any come-back from their clients.
I wish I had an answer.... barbed wire? Anti-bird netting in the wheel well? A campaign with leaflets in the right places with two photos... "don't try this" / "or you'll end up like this" ?
And to be pragmatic...
Hundreds die in small boats trying to get to the Canaries, or across the Mediterranean.
Let's put our efforts in trying to solve that first......

[ship's power]

Perhaps you may recall another stowaway incident at LAX. It had occurred on an inbound Air Pacific 744 flight from Fiji just a few years ago. The ground crew were in shock as they witnessed the lucky stowaway climb out of the left main body gear well, and sprint away across the tarmac. Though he was captured, it is still a mystery on how he had survived the 11 hr trans Pacific flight!

It was theorized that he had stayed warm while huddled to the pac ducting, and that also perhaps the airtight gear door seals had saved him.

[Rainboe]

Tigger!
You would think that perhaps they could modify the design of the well so that it is somehow 'filled' when the wheels are down (be it an inflatable bladder, a flap, plunger - it could even be a cheap disposable system that is changed per flight)

This is demented! Are you seriously believing any of this garbage is even worth considering? 'Inflatable bladders'? If you don't know what a wheel well looks like, keep out of this discussion! 'Flap'? What, like an undercarriage door? 'Plunger'? What sort of 'plunger'? Like for cleaning toilets? A 'cheap disposable system that is changed per flight'. Do us a favour........zip it!

[easyduzzit]

Contrary to popular belief this is not that uncommon!

I have personally been involved with 2 incidents, one hopeful in a B747 WW & another in an A300.
the former being MH747 from Kuala Lumpur arriving in JNB & latter EK from JNB/Comoros arriving in DXB!
The second idiot apparently did a few sectors as well, prior to discovery!!!
Hence the now present procedure to open landing gear doors for inspection on every Daily check, however only on the airbus 330 & 310:ugh: as some people still believe this cannot occur on a B777 or A340!!!

HAWK21- one can practically see the entire areas of the B747 wheel wells from the ground with a flashlight or the lights switched on, by standing inboard of the aft body gears axles looking forward, especially where one "in the know" could easily position himself to be clear of the gears coming in! However, there is the temperature penalty & then the loss of oxygen so ones chances in any flight greater than 30mins are zero!
If you're really short it would require a jump or two or standing on the wheel rim!
I take particular time to inspect wheel wells especially of flights from certain parts of the world, looking for stowaway hopefuls, or whats left of them!
The damage to aircraft parts or systems would be my priority.

PA- I like your sense of humour!
Reminds me of the decal on the B777 #2 cockpit window, which alerts flying crew to the fact that his window is open when slid back!!!

Tigggermoth- You have to be kidding Man?
Aircraft are designed for minimum weight & for the operation of "reasonably intelligent" individuals. Idiots or the ignorant who get too close to them are only putting their lives & others around them in grave danger.

Paxboy- in full agreement. Pictures of blood & guts & dismembered bodies hanging out of wheel wells, displayed around airports in these 3rd world outfits would be the only effective solution.

I cant say I find this at all SAD, other than the stupidity of the individual involved! And then there's the Movies...... Sorry!

[ChristiaanJ]

easyduzzit,
It's not really "idiocy" or "stupidity".....
Ignorance, yes... despair, yes.

[Self Loading Freight]

I think the incident reported at the end of the LA Time's coverage (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-body29jan29,0,24089.story) of the incident says a great deal about the state of mind of those who try...
Little is known about stowaways' motivations because so few survive. Many hail from impoverished nations and board planes bound for North America or Europe, presumably seeking better lives.
That was the case of two 14-year-old boys whose bodies were found in the wheel well of a plane in Brussels after a flight from their West African home country of Guinea. In that case, a letter was found in one of the boys' pockets. Signed by both boys, it said they wished to bring attention to the suffering of children in Africa. Written in French, the letter explained: "If you see that we have sacrificed and risked our lives, it is because there is too much suffering in Africa and we need you to struggle against poverty and put an end to war in Africa. Nevertheless, we want to study and we ask you to help us in Africa to study to be like you."

[ZFT]

Rainboe,

Are you not being a tad unkind about these poor individuals?

It is their ignorance of aircraft and most likely $$$ to the local ‘security’ staff that is killing them, but garbage!

[frangatang]

Well , at least thats one less individual on welfare that my taxes go to.Or perhaps he landed at LHR,looked out and saw it was more third world than were he had come from and decided to continue his journey! Will l have to bring a stepladder to work as well as a torch to inspect the wheelwell bays? Wont that be construed as tradesmans tools and banned from taking it through security?

[NWT]

Can just see it.....pre-departure inspection, just prior to push back (or why not on the threshold).....release landing gear doors to inspect bays.....oh dear forgot the 747 doors hit the ground when the aircraft is fueled....oh well back to the ramp for new doors....
If the silly bu....rs want to stow away thats their risk...what ever you do they will try....at least we didn't get sadled with another freeloading imigrant for the tax payers to support....

[Taildragger67]

NWT,

My thinking is more what someone could carry in.

There are, unfortunately, some who consider that dying for a cause is the way to go and so might see this as something to exploit. For them, the outcome is the same; it's what they might carry with them, which concerns me. :eek:

[overstress]

Stickers in the wheel well would be too dark to see

Just a point, but every time I've looked in the body landing gear well, it was brightly lit :confused:

But there's no point in the sticker idea. If people want to stow away, they'll do it anyway.

[TURIN]

PAXboy
As I understand it, these problems have occurred after a turn-around, not a layover? That is, interpreting 'layover' as being one that involves very specific engineering checks when the a/c is at a base, rather than a two or three hour turn down line, such as JNB or NBO.


Not necessarily.
US AIR (and others) have layover checks performed down the line. :ok:

My point is that at least the body would be found after one flight. It doesn't exactly look good when a body is flown several sectors when it really should have been discovered at the next transit.

[Shot Nancy]

I seem to recall (now don't quote me, but if anyone has the official version) an Air Polynesian B737 with a main landing gear failing to extend. Landed on the runway with much damage. Subsequent investigation revealed a stowaway in the wheel well. Plenty of room when the gear is down, yet when retracted the unfortunate bugger was crushed and the spilt fluids froze the gear up. Not pretty.

[ZeBedie]

Maybe burglar alarm technology could be used to detect stowaways? I guess false alarms could be avoided with careful design.

[ship's power]

At any rate, stowaways will never happen with a carrier like El Al. Their security is impeccable!

[ChristiaanJ]

At any rate, stowaways will never happen with a carrier like El Al. Their security is impeccable!Never say never.......

[MReyn24050]

The Daily Telegraph today states “ The body of a South African teenager found in the wheel well of a British airway’s jet at Los Angeles airport may have been there for almost a week, officials indicated yesterday.
It is believed that Samual Peter Benjamin, 17, crept aboard the aircraft at Cape Town, his home town, before it left on Jan 22. His body was found by a pilot in the nose wheel well of the Boeing 747 during a routine inspection at Los Angeles international airport just before take off on Sunday (28th Jan 2007). The flight had arrived from Heathrow several hours earlier, but had previously stopped at Singapore, Vancouver, Hong Kong and Cape Town.”
Makes one wonder how the body had not been detected before.
Are the undercarriage bays not subject of inspections during After Flight, Before Flight or Turn round servicing? If not in view of the many previous occurrences of people trying to stow-away in the undercarriage bays should not a requirement for such inspections be added to the schedules?

[Orographic]

Maybe burglar alarm technology could be used to detect stowaways? I guess false alarms could be avoided with careful design.
As someone who has worked in the security industry ... i would be cautious about placeing electronic intrustion detection systems in such a location.

firstly being an unpressurised, non temprature controled area, you have the possibility or indeed proberbility of leaving the components operating temprature range, with unknown results. even if you stay within temp range for the components, condensation is an issue, and can cause both false activations and nil activations
secondly, there is a definate proberbility of both false positives and false negitives in the detection system its self, .. assuming that it *never* leaves is design paramiters.

false postives are annoying and would largely cause air/ground crew to learn to ignore the alarm if possible. False negitives would result in no alarm activation, should an intruder decide to enter that area.
False positive/negitive statuses become more likely as the equipment ages as well.


the net result would be a loosening of the guard against stowaways, on the blithe assumption that 1, the alarm will get it, and 2, when the alarm activates, its a false alarm

i would support more and greater depth ground checks by .. well humans.

If gear bay doors cannot be signaled open for inspection, maybe this should be raised with the manufacturers?

[Paradise Lost]

Fascinated to know what Orographic does now...teach 'speling' presumably?
Securaplane would be devastated to hear how unlikely their equipment would be to work in such a hostile environment. Many corporate operators have installed Securaplane for passive security monitoring and this includes motion sensors in all wheel wells (just like the ones you have at home for your burglar alarm).
In the event of someone poking their head (or more) into any of the WWs, both the time and location of the intrusion is recorded. The operator would then visually inspect the relevant bay and eject any foreign body(sic!). This would appear to offer a fairly cheap and viable solution to a tragic problem.

[G-OPCON]

Well how about camara's in the nose wheel bays?
:yuk:

[Orographic]

Paradise lost, what I currently do for a paying job is .. monitering alarm systems( *shrug* it pays for my flying ).
standard PIR's ( paasive infared sensors ... "motion detectors" to those who do not undarstand how they work) would be unsutable to that environment, and for the reasions specified. How do I know this? Because every other day I have to send patrols out to sites where very similer false activations are occuring, wasting their time as well as mine, in order to verify that the activations are, in fact, false, and the reasion for the activation is a well known condition that the owner of the premises has been advised of time and again. I have also had to explain to site owners why alarms did not activate when they had been broken into and thousands of dollers of stock taken. Given that, I think that I can say that there would be some minor risk in trusting such technology, ne?

Certainly special use componentry could be manufactured for that enviroment, I never claimed it could not. However standard OTS componentry would be unsutable. While I have not researched what the company that you have sited, uses in their systems, i would hope they are useing a specialist use component set and are providing a comprehensive servicing setup for those aircraft. If not, then those alarms are worse than useless. Human nature will mean that in an environment with a large number of false status events, people will start ignoring the alarms.

If you need further proof of that point, just watch the vast and sweeping reaction, next time someones car or house alarm goes off.
Infact if a home alarm system is left sounding for more than a few seconds, it tends to be used by offenders as an indication that no-one is home and its safe to continue the break.

oh and the biggest causes of false alarms?
Moisture in the circutry, Moisture or insects in front of the apature,twigs, a truck driving past outside, a "hot spot" against a cooler background ( or infact any steep enough temprature differential. not actually a failure mode, as this is precisely what a PIR "looks" for, not movement as a most people seem to think. infact it can't look for movement because it has no memory retention at all. all sorts of things can cause this effect, a human body is only one of those. others i have seen have been air conditioning outlets, a fax machine, and an ember falling out of a fire grate and into the detection zone of the PIR.)

Oh, and Paradise, i realise that my spelling is a little suspect at times, however one thing that i have learned in my time, is that the concept of security , for anything that you cannot sit and eyeball 24/7, is a myth. It ultimately comes down to what do you beleave you can trust.

By far the most reliable alarm system if the mk1 eyeball.



G-OPCON, possible the only concerns I would have, are positioning the camera so that the widest possble coverage could be maintained, and ensuring the coax to the cameras was protected from tampering. other than that, that would be a reasionable solution.

Maintance would be an issue, as would ensuring the non-contamination of the len ( the "body " of the camera and circutry could be sealed, rendering moisture in circut irrelivant at the camera end, the same would have to be ensured at the viewing/processing/transmitting end)

ok so CCTV would be a realistic contender for a partial solution, assuming mounts and cable runs could be suitably situated and protected...

[VSB via OL]

Forgive me - is this still the "PROFESSIONAL PILOTS" forum??

[MReyn24050]

VSB via OL stated "Forgive me - is this still the "PROFESSIONAL PILOTS" forum??"
I must admit I support his question.
As stated at an earlier post I wrote "The Daily Telegraph today states “ The body of a South African teenager found in the wheel well of a British airway’s jet at Los Angeles airport may have been there for almost a week, officials indicated yesterday.
It is believed that Samual Peter Benjamin, 17, crept aboard the aircraft at Cape Town, his home town, before it left on Jan 22. His body was found by a pilot in the nose wheel well of the Boeing 747 during a routine inspection at Los Angeles international airport just before take off on Sunday (28th Jan 2007). The flight had arrived from Heathrow several hours earlier, but had previously stopped at Singapore, Vancouver, Hong Kong and Cape Town.”
My experience is based on many years maintaining military aircraft which were subjected to Before Flight, Turn round and After Flight Inspections. The incident is reported to have come to light when a pilot carried out a routine inspection of the nose wheel bay.
My question is, how was the body not discovered prior to this particular inspection?
What exactly does the Inspection schedule call for in this area?

[overstress]

The body was found in the right hand wing gear at the front, forward of the wheels.
I was a bit slow carrying out a walkround once. My QFI leaned out of the cockpit and announced: "For goodness sake hurry up - you're flying it, not buying it!" :}

[MReyn24050]

The body was found in the right hand wing gear at the front, forward of the wheels.

OK it was not the Nose Wheel Bay but does that make it less serious? My question was what inspections if any should be carried out in this area between flights?

[XPMorten]

Just a thought, how about placing a couple of mirrors inside the well
that can be viewed from the ground for easy inspection.. .

M

[VSB via OL]

Although MReyn has a point, the context of my post was directed more at the ramblings of Orographic - (Sorry Oro!) - it was just a bit too far off the beaten track to get your original point across.

vsb

[TURIN]

OK it was not the Nose Wheel Bay but does that make it less serious? My question was what inspections if any should be carried out in this area between flights?
Less serious? No. But a damn site harder to see from the ground. See my earlier post to answer your second point.
Just a thought, how about placing a couple of mirrors inside the well
that can be viewed from the ground for easy inspection.. .

Good idea except someone would then be tasked with cleaning the mirrors regularly (Remember the 737 direct view mirrors for the landing gear downlocks? They got cleaned every night didn't they?:rolleyes: ). Easier just to open the doors and do a full visual inspection during the Transit Check.:ok:

[Orographic]

VSB, its ok ,and yes it did wander a little off topic, but i do feel trying to nut out how to stop it happening again, is a useful expenditure of energy. After all, who wants a body on their conscious, regardless or not if you could have done anything to prevent the poor sod from expiring. There is a reasion why train drivers, for example, get free counceling after an incident in their line of work.

maybe the topic should fork at this point, into two threads, one for the event, and one looking for solutions to impliment?

[ExBHX]

Has any one records of number of fatalities/stowaways over recent years?

[False Capture]

I have no sympathy for those who die in wheel wells.

Whenever we return from India or Africa, I always think about stowaways when we're flying an approach to one of LHR's westerly runways. I hope and pray I'm not about to drop a frozen body onto the innocent people of London as I move the gear lever to the down position.

If they're prepared to die trying to seek a better life then that's their choice, unfortunately plenty of desperates die in boats, cargo containers, trains etc. every year. My concern with airline stowaways is the risk their actions have on the people who live beneath the approach paths to international airports.

I'm also amazed at the pathetic torches some of my colleagues use when they do a walk-around. As a result, it's not surprising bodies go undetected for a few flights.

[drflight]

This aircraft flew CPT – LHR- SIN –LHR – HKG – LHR –LAX with the poor mans body inside the landing gear all the time.

Is it really possible no British Airways Ground Engineer, Pilot, or other properly qualified person, checked an area of an aircraft that can be climbed into and where something could easily be left?

Surely this should be done on a daily basis before each and every flight as happens with certain other airlines? If not this is shocking. The security implications are appalling.

[Carnage Matey!]

If you'd bothered to read the three pages of this thread drflight instead of just posting you'd have found the answers to the questions you didn't need to ask.:ugh:

[cargo boy]

Sigh! :rolleyes: Just as we had uneducated pontification about the BA B744 LAX-LHR/MAN engine out flight from numerous people who had absolutely no understanding or knowledge of the B744 and its systems, we now have another bunch of either pilots with no B744 experience or else a bunch of wannabe tranees, PPL's or plain vanilla enthusiasts and spotters giving us the benefit [sic] of their thoughts and experience ( :rolleyes: ) about what can and can't be seen from the ground during a walk around of a B744.

Either you've got the B744 on your licence (pilot or engineer) and have performed walk arounds on it or else you haven't. If you haven't, then please could you limit your posts to questions about what can and can't be easily seen in the landing gear bays from the ground on a walk around of a B744, otherwise you risk raising the blood pressure of those of us that do, un-necessarily, with all that pompous pontification that just tells us (B744 experienced pilots and engineers) that you have no real idea what it is really like checking out the underside of a real B744 in the first place. :ugh:

[Rainboe]

So well said! I was a pilot on 747-400 for 8 years, and the Classic for 10 years before that. It is extremely difficult to spot people on the walkaround. After the walkaround, there is an extensive period of 30 minutes or more when access can be gained, and again during taxi, this is when a lot of stowaways make a break for it in the dark and climb aboard- times when they cannot be stopped. If these economic migrants are going to insist on doing this darn fool thing, it's impossible, apart from local security being beefed up, to stop them. They are not at the end of their tether to do this- they want a taste of the bright lights and wealth. No pilot should have any conscience about these idiots killing themselves like this.

[drflight]

Perhaps an SIA or EL AL pilot might care to explain how their checks would have prevented this!

[primreamer]

drflight,
I have in the past performed ad hoc turnround/transit checks on El Al aircraft and the required inspections were no different to my own airline, i.e. no opening of gear bay doors and looking inside. I have also witnessed El Al pilots carrying out a walkround inspection of their own, as they are required to do and at no time did they attempt to look in the gear bays or ask me to do likewise. I take your point that theres a security implication here but rather than berating pilots and engineers for not carrying out the required checks correctly, pressure should be applied to airport operators to make their boundaries more secure. Then these individuals who are ignorant of the dangers might not get as far as the wheel wells.

[Stoic]

As someone who flew the 747 Classic for 23 years and who, inadvertently, carried a stowaway who died, may I be allowed to comment?

First, the comments of any professional pilots who refer in disparaging terms to “these people” and “idiots” and who glibly talk of “a mate down the pub” who allegedly acted deliberately to kill an African stowaway are shameful and racist.

Second is the very serious issue indeed of security. If it is possible, on a regular, if mercifully infrequent basis, for highly motivated, but incredibly ignorant Third World young males to stow away on our aircraft, it is also possible for highly motivated young people to climb on board and plant bombs in wheel wells or to secrete themselves as human bombs in wheel wells.

That so many stowaways are successful in stowing away, if not surviving, is a sign that the airline industry is failing disastrously to address this appalling problem with potentially catastrophic consequences. Once a stowaway is dead, is there any security implication in his body not being found for some time? It is the ability to climb into the aeroplane with a bomb that is the threat which the industry is failing to successfully address.

Regards

Stoic

[Taildragger67]

Stoic,

My point exactly. Thank you.

[drflight]

Well said, Stoic.

[matkat]

Stoic, excellent point and well said, as an ex certifying staff on the B747 I have read about wheel well inspections as you know to do a 100% inspection of all wheel wells during a turnround is virtually impossible the answer lies with the airport authorities and security services to provide the required measures, however we all know that this is also impossible due to highly motivated young men trying to stow away it seems that this is a problem that will continue in the near future.

[RatherBeFlying]

Given the decision-making process of the authorities, we have to wait until explosives are planted in a WW:mad:

The authorities will then act to close this particular barn door:(

[Bartender]

Forgive me, I have no experience in this field at all.
Wondering I am, there's a lot of talk here on how to avoid letting the stowaways into wheel wells and how to check if they're there...

Is it worth looking more carefully at airport security? Surley this is a far cheaper and easier method to implement?

There was a mention of two stowaways who hid in long grass and managed to get past the security escorting the aircraft to the hold-short. If the grass were cut, would they have been less likley to reach the aircraft as they'd have been spotted earlier?

Relating to the security issue, if people can get onto the airfield and into aircraft, what's stopping them getting near enough to fire a shoulder mounted rocket towards a smaller aircraft?

[llondel]

A small tear-gas canister injected into the wheel well might discourage people from climbing in, if that was the atmosphere inside. Obviously it relies on the fact that most of it stays in there until the doors open for the gear to be raised, otherwise the ground crew wouldn't be able to do their job. At the very least, if you assume that the stowaway is effectively dead when he climbs in, he probably wouldn't be able to hold on as the doors open and would be left near the departure point rather than potentially being dropped on approach to the destination.

[RatherBeFlying]

I believe the stuff can be corrosive. It also becomes a workplace hazard as residues have to be removed before maintenance can approach the WW.

And what happens if any TG happens to get loose in the cabin?

[llondel]

It doesn't have to be tear gas, I was merely exploring proof of concept :}

In theory, if there's a way that the wheel well environment can be made unpleasant before take-off, it might help discourage successful stowaway attempts.

[Rainboe]

We're getting a lot of daft and dangerous ideas tossed in here about this. any inflatable doogeridoo filling the wheel well is going to get punctured or inflate at the wrong time one day and hazard the passengers. Tear gas will hurt someone it shouldn't one day. Raising and lowering the doors every turnaround will achieve nothing- they will run up as the aeroplane taxis away for takeoff. The only answer is security. There is no stopping them otherwise. So is there anybody else who thinks they can think of a solution in 3 minutes and wants to waste everybodies time that the industry and many aeroplane designers haven't been able to come up with so far? Ray guns.....microwave beams to heat up human bodies......?

[Wodrick]

My visits to Gear Bays are few, the reasons for Avionic expertise there being limited, however I feel there is no need to MAKE them unpleasent, They ARE unpleasent, generally, Hydraulic fluid residue, Dirt, Anti-corrosion coatings, Brake Dust, Rubber, the list just goes on. Most on here have the answer - Security.

[WilliamLochrie]

I honestly cannot believe that there are some people on this thread who would call the man an "idiot" I feel extremely sorry for this man and all the others who try to escape in such a desperate fashion. And just to add i am not a pilot (want to be though!) but i think that is irrelevant anyway. It is much more of a moral issue than anything else.

[llondel]

I think getting the desired result by improved security is going to take a long time, given that some airports are in areas where corruption is common and others are in areas which are hard to secure. As such, you have to assume that a potential stowaway will gain access to an aircraft, so exploring means of denying him entry to the wheel wells is a perfectly valid option.

As for being daft and dangerous, many good ideas are triggered by something that is in itself obviously not a good idea but that set someone else thinking. That's why we have brainstorming sessions when creating new concepts, daft and impractical ideas often lead to a workable solution. The initial idea may take three minutes, turning it into a workable solution that achieves an acceptable increase in weight, doesn't compromise safety, isn't too expensive and has a low failure rate, may take months or years. Understanding why an idea is daft is progress towards a solution.

How about a Gurkha armed with a knife and a parachute in each wheel well - he can defend it against incursion and when the doors open for gear retraction he can jump out and hope his parachute opens in time. Then he can catch a taxi (or walk) back to the airport and repeat the process.

[tiggermoth]

As for being daft and dangerous, many good ideas are triggered by something that is in itself obviously not a good idea but that set someone else thinking. That's why we have brainstorming sessions when creating new concepts, daft and impractical ideas often lead to a workable solution. The initial idea may take three minutes, turning it into a workable solution that achieves an acceptable increase in weight, doesn't compromise safety, isn't too expensive and has a low failure rate, may take months or years. Understanding why an idea is daft is progress towards a solution.

Very well said indeed. It's the very nature of engineering.

[Rainboe]

llondel- that's not funny. if you ordered the Gurkhas to do that, they would just say 'Yessir!' and do it. One of the greatest and mistreated assets of our country. To show I am not just critical, but realistic, I have put my thinking hat on, and the only possible solution I can think is:
<Gear doors that close-off the bay completely when the gear is down>
......apart from beefing up security which is the only realistic answer. Inflatable settees placed in the bay are a recipe for disaster. I would not have one innocent killed by badly operating mechanical deterrents for the sake of these fools. The added expense of this design will be considerable, and they will presumably learn the engineers technique for opening the doors for inspection anyway. As long as we are willing to pay it (I'm not), that's what has to be done (I don't really believe that). For instance, why should we all pay to string a gimongous net under the Golden Gate Bridge? Other ways will be found, so we might as well make life easy (or death, if you get my meaning).
I have no great respect for these people who do this. they are not 'escaping'. They are trying to be financial refugees wanting the bright lights and golden pavements. In doing so they are placing others at risk.

[swordsman]

Dr flight
I would not trust El Al any more than the other companies especially regarding engineering checks.I seem to remember not so long a go a 747 taking off from Amsterdam and 2 of its engines fell off just as it got into the air.It then lost control and flew into a block of flats.
I would not want one of their engineers working on my 1967 beaten up Ford Anglia.

[Rainboe]

Israel is a major source of aeroengineering and maintenance, with an excellent reputation. Any make engine/aeroplane combination could suffer catastrophic failure and take another engine with it disastrously. That crew struggled and did their best in terrible circumstances. I think that comment is unfair.

[llondel]

Rainboe, I was only thinking of Gurkhas because they tend to be small and are expert with their blades. Not someone you'd want to meet on a dark night in a confined space unless you knew he was on your side and that he knew you were. I agree with your mistreatment comments.

As for completely closing the space, I don't know how much movement there is in gear struts during normal operation - I assume they flex a bit on landing and that's why there's clearance space around them (quite apart from any shaping required to allow for the door movement). The trick is to close the gaps in a way that allows for that movement and that isn't easily displaced by someone attempting to climb in.

[BAMRA wake up]

Some context, and an indication of the scale of the tragedy:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6213495.stm

'About 6,000 African migrants have died or gone missing on the sea journey to the Canary Islands in 2006, Spanish immigration officials say'.

[swordsman]

Rainboe read my post.I was not referring to the pilots.All companies have had incidents with engineering,you only have to look at DC 10 "s having their engines fall off because of using a fork lift truck to save a few bob whilst in the hangar.There was even someone trying to fly a 1 11 not so long ago hanging out of the window at 17000 feet and 300 miles per hour with no windscreen because of a cock up with the screws not being tight according to this bloke in the pub.

[ok1]

What about some sort of detection system, like IR cameras, installed in the wheel well? These might also be useful to confirm landing gear extension in case the indication fails.

[Jimmy Macintosh]

The only answer is security, these deaths, though unfortunate, are not numerous enough to even warrant looking at an alternative design for the landing gear bays. These are what would be termed acceptable losses.
As is usual in all aircraft incidents it comes down to the engineers who are to blame or who have to find a solution (Lockerbie, "Why aren't planes made bomb proof!"). Let's remove the undercarriage all together and have them land on a trolley attached to a conveyor belt, there wouldn't be any wheel wells for anyone to climb into and the amount of weight saving would be great. These issues lie with security.

[Rainboe]

What about some sort of detection system, like IR cameras, installed in the wheel well? These might also be useful to confirm landing gear extension in case the indication fails.
If you have no idea what a well used undercarriage bay looks like, you will see why not. Everything is coated in mud/grease/squirted hydraulic fluid from occasional leaks/oil. Try putting that on a lens- as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike. You students have great ideas on scientific innovations- you need time getting your hands dirty seeing aeroplanes work hard to get some realism. A video camera in a landing gear bay subjected to mud/grease/-65 deg C/+50 deg C will last as long as my Sears garage door opener at 240v.

[primreamer]

Swordsman,
Don't know what your point is. This thread is about the sad death of a stowaway in the wheel well of a B747. "ALL companies have had incidents with engineering". Are you sure? MANY companies and airlines have suffered engineering related incidents that are well documented. Just as there are many companies and airlines that have suffered incidents, and indeed accidents, that were not engineering related in the slightest. Calling into question the abilities of El AL's engineers isn't really contributing much to the discussion about how to prevent this kind of tragedy happening again.

[llondel]

Swordsman,

The BAC111 was flight BA 5390 from Birmingham to Malaga on 10th June 1990. The window blew out because it had been fixed in with screws whose diameter was too small. Not by much, but obviously enough to cause excessive stress.