when students turn green!

[adverse-bump]

im new too the job, loving it in general! BUT - How do u react when a student gets ill, happenend to me a couple of days ago and wasnt 100% sure what too say. I tried not to make a big deal of it and took over control, then started to give him bits to do to get him focused, like FREDA checks etc.

:uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:

[TurboJ]

Give them a sick bag
Get them to look outside
Turn the vents on - plenty of fresh air
and land ASAP
Giving them things to do is always a good idea to take their mind of feeling ill.
TJ

[Whirlybird]

If they fly - or at least put their hands on the controls and go through the motions - they'll tend to feel better. But I'd then land ASAP, but assure them it's normal and will tend to disappear with practice; some people go into panic mode and think they'll never be pilots because they get airsick!

[homeguard]

Motion sickness I'm sure is as a result of the confusion of the senses. What the eyes see, the balance sensers within the ear sense and the feelings the body receives from 'g' become at odds with each other. Nothing adds up and confusion reigns, the brain, as if to say it must be what you have eaten, orders the stomach to get rid. A swell, in my experience, is worse than turbulance in so many cases.
The sufferer must not focus on one thing nor sit motionless. Get them to move about in their seat and continously move their head and body to break the cycle.
Having not eaten and being low in sugar is often the cause and of course so is tiredness. I always check whether a Trial flight has eaten recently and if not get them to have a Mars Bar or similar, particularly before an aerobatic trip.
Seems to work for me.

[Evilbob]

I have been instructing for less than a year now myself and despite having the odd queasy student, nobody has blown chunks on me yet.

With the ones that have come close (generally trial lessons) I tend to open the vents/apply cabin air. Try to get them to concentrate on something like flying the aircraft, or as a last resort get them to close their eyes while I return to the airfield by the shortest possible means.

As homeguard says, it's caused by the difference in sensations percieved by the eyes and semi-circular canals in the ears. If you get them to shut their eyes, the possibility of them being sick is reduced.

I have flown with a student who suffers quite badly with airsickness. He has one of the anti-sickness wristwatch style devices and it seems to work with him. When the time came to do steep turns, I thought my luck had ran out. However, he was absolutely fine. :O

[18greens]

I have been instructing for less than a year now myself and despite having the odd queasy student, nobody has blown chunks on me yet.
:O

No-one! you've been lucky. I must have had half a dozen and when it's going to happen make sure you open the bag for them, get the microphone out of projectile range and then get another bag ready for when the first bag leaks. All that about getting them to fly the plane has never worked for me.

A few thing I have learned are
1) Make sure they weren't on the pop last night
2) Make sure they have eaten something
3) If they are not 100% up for the loop don't do it, let them come back for it.
4) If they are 100% up for the loop don't push it and do another.
5) Don't show them how fast the plane can roll, it might impress you but not them.
6) If aeros are on the cards do it immediately before you land don't get it out of the way at the start.
7) Get them to divest as many clothes as possible before they get in. There is no way they will get cold but they will certainly get too hot.
8) When they go quiet start worrying.

I personally think 30-40 minutes is ideal. Any longer they get bored and then....

[hugh flung_dung]

I'd reinforce everything that 18Greens has said - especially the bit about moving the microphone (they don't like it up 'em and sound a bit muffled ever after :-) )
A cautionary tale from my more naive days. An Aerobatic trial lesson, a very "up for it" young lady, everything going well until quite suddenly she feels ill so we calm down and start to RTB. The bag is used and she then says she feels much better and could I show her one more loop while she holds the bag.
I discovered that bags aren't apparently designed for 4g when 1/2 full :O .
She also threw-up again before we could land.
Moral(s) of the story:

RTB when they start to feel ill,
don't believe them when they say they feel better,
always have at least 2 bags (I slide one under my thigh so I can find it in a hurry)

HFD

[the dean]

agree with all thats been said...especially the fresh air...

its easy for you to '' come up in sympathy '':eek: ...so get those vents open and lots of cold air for your pax...

always carry more than one bag,,,just in case and at the first signs of you pax looking unwell get one ready but keep it discreetly hidden so as now to encourage but have it ready to hand....

barf on the radios is a bitch...and apart from the mess it does'nt do them any good at all...!!!:}

the dean.

[BlueRobin]

I threw up over my FI for my first full lesson, great way to start a relationship. :ugh: The cause was though performing "secondary effects of controls" each resulting in a spiral dive. This was repeated six times. Then a jolt up following by a jolt down though setting the trim totally out. Throw in some turbulent mixing with the ground on a gusty late Autumn day and I felt quite ill... The bags had been forgotten and we almost made it until we had to go around on short final. My body just gave up there and then.

Too warm clothing also didn't help. My tip as a Master Chunder, epxnading on 18greens's comment, would be to make sure you are cool enough but not freezing. I wouldn't be surprised if the additional stress of learning to fly puts your body temperature up.

Ultimatley it was combatted by continution of learning so more control coudl be taken away from the instructor. The body imo combats vestibular effects better when it can knows and can anticipate events.

[jamestkirk]

I just tell them to stop being such a girl (unless they are one, then i replace that with 'emotional') and pull themselves together like any normal human.

Quickly followed by informing them that if it's their vomit, they'll clean it up. And, if i smell vomit I WILL chunder and they can clear that up as well.

It's only a few unusual attitudes and G loads. A spell in the army or prison is what thse people need to toughen them up. I know, I've done both.

[adverse-bump]

I def agree with the point about the smell! was making me ill!

Workload must come into the eqation somewhere! i have stocked up my knee board with bags!:\

[TurboJ]

Cpt Kirk

I take it that with such a sympathtic attitude you have plenty of sick students returning for more of the same ? :ok:

TJ

[jamestkirk]

Trust you not to realise that the post was a joke.

Are you an FI

[jamestkirk]

Sorry, did not see the smiley face at the end of the post. So just when i thought you were turning into my nemesis. i take the last post back.

[TurboJ]

Nearly a bite then.

Yes

:eek:

[WelshRambler]

I've been instructing for 12 months now and, touch wood, only got through 3 sick bags, and one of those simply wore out from being in my pocket for so long.

The first time was a very lucky escape. I was told during my FIC as I'm sure we all were:always carry a sick-bag. Anyway, for a couple of months into instructing I kept meaning to get one but never quite got around to it. One morning the CFI was talking about barfing and I mentioned I meant to start carrying a sick bag and he gave me his, there and then.

That VERY AFTERNOON, one of my students turns green and throws up, into my new bag. Very lucky escape, I learnt my lesson and always had one from then on.

The second guy (trial lesson) got the bag, but also the mic, another lesson learnt!

[das Uber Soldat]

ah, i love it when green instructors forget the mic. The looks on their faces when they get back to base are always top shelf. :D

[Evilbob]

My luck finally ran out just a few days ago. There was no early warning, just a mumbled "I'm going to be sick". There was enough time for me to pass him a souvenir bag but no sooner had I done that, the 5 minute long chunder began.

So anyway, sad as I am, I worked in out: 1 year and 71 days not out :}

Beat it if you can.

[The Otter's Pocket]

I am doing okay, two near misses.

One a young girl wanted to see her house. Looking down in a steep turn she got tunnel vision and nearly passed out, spent most of the way home gagging.
I kept looking out of the side window as everytime she wretched I dry wretched.
I got home with a very sore stomach from dry wretching and tears in my eyes.
I laugh now, however at the time I would rather have crashed than landed covered in vom.

Another was a young chap, wanted to know what it was like inside of the cloud and have some fun.
Danced around the Cu s for a bit. He did most of the flying and was rather good. (I just kept everything in balance) I suggested that he had great co-ordination and that he might like to be a pilot after his "A" levels.

At that point he went very green and didn't speak again.
I am unsure if it was the thought of doing "A" Levels, being a pilot, or watching me dry wretch in the RH seat that made him green.

[pablo]

Hi there!
I want to share my motion sickness experience with you!
First of all:
I discovered that bags aren't apparently designed for 4g when 1/2 full .
Good one, indeed!
Second:
I threw up over my FI for my first full lesson, great way to start a relationship.
It really is for sure. I spent everlonging 10 miles apologizing, and was quite worried wether if I'd be able to overcome it. Good thing about the 172 are those big upward opening windows, but the instructor got his share while holding it (his watch looked nice!), and the final result was not so bad taking into account that I was "on short final" when I "reported". The guy had been quite nice with me.
Third and last!:
7) Get them to divest as many clothes as possible before they get in. There is no way they will get cold but they will certainly get too hot.
Maybe it doesn't affect everyone the same way, but heat really makes me feel sick. If I am to be sick, heat really increases the effect, if not the only cause. For me... some times that I'm hot inside a moving vehicle I end up quite sick.
Yet another one is getting my head down to read. Even I can't stand up while reading something into a table for a "long period", like reading a newspeparer or so. Getting my head down to read sometimes helps sicknss to appear.
And another cause, that may seem ridiculous, is smell. If I smell something disgusting, I have a chance to be sick. For instance, the mix of exhaust, oil, gas and ages of not cleaning that we can find in the average general aviation airplane is specially disgusting for me. Even more disgusting is the smell that sticks to your clothes, I feel really uncomfortable after flying some airplanes. So I'm quite scared of having the type of guy that forgets to go for a touch and go into the bathtube once in a while. More than the smells themselves, I think the problem is that if I keep smelling something, I get distracted from what I'm doing, so it may be kinda increasing workload or reducing concetration that helps getting sick. My sisters' godmother is also prone to get sick due to smells.
Just a final thought. Although I didn't visit the doctor I guess my "trend" to become sick has to do something with the little equilibrium I have and vertigo. Since I remember, I have always had little equilibrium to stand on one foot or over a wall, and when pushing, pulling and so was normally the first to fall. Even practising taekwondo I have problems sometimes to roll and so. And then I have always had vertigo. Although it seems a paradox, whenever there's not a barrier or something that makes me feel safe, I really have a bad feeling. Even I discovered that dropping skydivers, for the runs I have flown as passeger, as soon I saw the guys open the door and jump I felt quite strange, and I realized I was grabbing the handle too stiff unconciosly. If I'm sit and tied, it's gone. And of course I dislike climbing to places where I have to maintain equilibrium by myself like standing on top of a ladder or being close to a high edge like cliffs and buildings or riding a horse.
By the way, I've never felt sick riding in a rollercoaster (I love them!), in a boat (small and big boats with all sorts of waves), train, bus or airliner. But... in the car I used to feel sick quite often when I was a child, and once in a while I still have the odd day.
Hope this helps you understand how some people get sick. I think it's particular to each individual.
Regards / Pablo

[Rosta Change!]

Way back when I was instructing. I was teaching a guy on a trial lesson, he was having fun and neither of us noticed his girlfriend in the back seat starting to wretch. When I did eventually recognise the unmistakable waft of smell in the cabin i looked round to find she was being sick into something, oh no not a sickbag...but one of those cardboard funnels you use to fill up the oil !! The vomit was making a neat squirly pile like a mister whippy ice cream as it dribbled through the hole in the bottom of the funnel, all over my yellow tabbard on the floor !!!! Did make me laugh(much later on).

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

always have at least 2 bags
Used bag 1 on prev flight. (volunteer work for Air Force Cadets)
Pale face, sweating. "You are not going to hurl all over my dash. Take your shoe off.":E:E:E
It worked.
Headset bag (THEIRS, NOT YOURS) is another good alternative.
Heard of a no warning chunder where all the instructor saw was bloggs open his window and let fly. Instructor's window was open at the time and he only got it half shut before portions from the student's side whipped around in the slipstream. (Good reason to fly in balance!)
Saw cadet bragging about being the next Maverick. Big talk. Watched aircraft rotate (1st lesson), 50ft power off, land, inbound call including request for clean up due power chuck all over the dash. :yuk::yuk::yuk:

[duallie]

Smiles and laughs!

[OpenCirrus619]

A very experienced gliding instructor once told me the following - for use on "Trial Lesson / Air Experience" flights where you have already judged / ascertained they are only there for the ride and have no intention of returning:


Note sudden quietness / student saying they feel unwell / other indicator of impending "blowing of chunks"
Ask them if they are OK - if the answer is "no" / no answer / you think they are lying then
Tell them if they put their mouth and nose inside their sweatshirt / shirt / blouse / ... and breath deeply and they will feel OK.
Of course this makes them vomit immediately - but it's inside their shirt and you don't need to clean the aeroplane :E


OC619

[pablo]

:ok:nice tip:E

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Encourage students to eat bananas befroe the flight. It doesn't prevent airsickness, but at least smells of banana on the way out again.

[Vems]

"Of course this makes them vomit immediately - but it's inside their shirt and you don't need to clean the aeroplane "

That really did make me laugh!

Although, I wasn't sick in neither my trial or first lesson which was just yesterday.. All what happened.. is I felt a bit weird -not sick- when we did the effects of the controls which end up in spiral dive.. two minutes later I was fine, on another one.. it wasn't as bad.. and hopefully won't be sick on any of my lessons :p

[Checkboard]

I instructed for three years, including formation and aerobatics and never had a student sick in the aircraft! :ok: (I did have one or two vomit after getting off. :) )

I used to get a bit ill when I began learning, and so was always sympathetic, and aware of the problem. Every time I took up someone new I gave them a short speech, along the lines of:

"Feeling sick is normal, some do, some don't - it has nothing to do with your ability. I used to feel sick, and the tendency goes away as soon as your body gets used to the new environment. the important thing is that you stop learning as soon as you start to feel ill - the "It's not so much fun anymore" syndrome, and after that we are just wasting your money. Please tell me as soon as you get that feeling, and we will level the wings and return to base, and stop wasting your cash."

That speech, so they didn't feel embarrassed and "hold on" until it was too late, coupled with a cheery "How do you feel?" after every series of manoeuvres, kept me vomit free for three years. :ok:

[tgreene5908]

I once had a student open the side window in an attempt to get the "chunks" out the window. It was like one of those slow motion reels right before something really bad happens. As I was saying "noooo," the stuff went flying. :yuk:

[benonianto]

hey whirly

this happenned to me
my third flight last week ...first flight was sick but can get an idea of wut my instructor was doing...second flight went good.but my third flight was messed up...i had these feeling..hell im never gonna make it this happenned specially when i was climbin and i went into nervous/panic mode i asked my instr to fly back ...was perspiring thruout....had teh feeling i would never be a pilot.....but i want to get thru this .....i was wondering if this could be a serious isue... the moment i press the PTT for radio i go blank...was so confused.

[fernytickles]

Benonianto,

Have a look here - Earning My Wings: a video blog about learning to fly (http://www.eaa.org/apps/blog/learntofly/06/2008/Default.aspx)

I was hopeless at working the radio when I first started (some may say that several thousand hours later, I'm not much better :O ). What I did was to write down everything that would happen during the flight in relation to the radio.

So... what I would hear on the ATIS, leaving blanks for the differences, (ATIS information ?, time ?, wind ???/??, visibility ?, cloud ?, temperature ?, dewpoint ?,).

Then what I would say to ATC, again leaving blanks for the differences (Ground, this is N????, at ?, with information ?, requesting taxi/clearance/?), exactly what their response would be, again leaving blanks for the differences. Eventually, I found myself using my cheat sheet less & less, until I stopped getting the "Oh sh*t" blank moment as soon as I pressed the PTT.

Doesn't solve the sickness problem, but maybe if you work on each aspect of the flight, and reduce points that are contributing to your nerves, one by one, the sick feeling will gradually disappear as well.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

One of the most useful symptoms I've found - which warns, but does not prevent the 'event' is someone going quiet on you or becoming disinterested.

One trail lesson student was having a great time but then, as we approached the airfield, he went quiet and I asked: 'Are you feeling ok?'.

The prompt reply was: 'I feel BLAHHHHH' - all over the cockpit!

I always assume that trial lesson students will be excited, have just eaten and be looking all around taking in the sights and perhaps moving their heads up and down adjusting cameras and the like - all aids to motion sickness!!!

So I talk to them (to ensure they're not 'going quiet) and limit all turns to rate 1 (15 degrees angle of bank) and fly as smoothly as possible. Try not to surprise (and therefore alarm) them by doing something unexpected (even closing the throttle or lowering the flaps can induce anxiety).

In 18 years of instructing I've only had two students be sick - which I think is lucky. I'm not saying it's my flying or manner, just that I try and avoid the obvious pitfalls - and always have the fresh air vents partially open all the time come rain or shine.

Hopefully not :yuk:

SITW :)

[Obs cop]

From the other side, my personal record was 13 seperate incidents of being sick on one flight!

My Observer instructor was kind enough to keep count for me as I fought my way through 2 1/2 hours of chasing ships at 500' over the sea off the coast of Cornwall in the back of a Jetstream with a postage stamp window before doing expanding square searches. My nav cycle was almost a work of art, with leg briefings, turn onto new leg, post turn checks, chunder, radio work then back to leg briefings again and so on.

I left the aircaft utterly drained and holding 3 full sick bags as I ran out of stuff to throw!

My advice in no particular order is,

1. Alcohol within the previous 24 hours can significantly increase the risk of chunder.
2. Smooth flying helps avoid it.
3. Allowing them to fly or follow through on the controls is even better.
4. Make it clear that they are to tell you if they feel ill way before they actually start wreching.
5. Cold fresh air.
6. Stop doing whatever manouever it was which brought on the feeling of sickness and don't return to it if possible.
7. Return to the airfield as, once feeling sick, it will rarely disappear, but can ramp up very quickly indeed.
8. Airsickness is less likely if they have eaten a little while before flying.
9. Get them to look straight out ahead at the horizon when turning/manouevering. Head movement whilst manouevering will lead to full bags.
10. Don't risk it if they say they feel better. Bravado's no use when staring at the inside of a sick bag or wiping chunks off the panel.
11. If they are quiet they are probably suffering.


From a graduate of the RAF School of Aviation Medicine desensitization course!

Obs

[Trans Lift]

My first ever student on his first ever helo ride got sick all over the place. He asked me to take control and I asked him was he alright, he then answered by getting sick out the door. Of course in the helo(with the doors off) all of the vomit flew back into the cockpit and all over the instruments and me!!
I promptly kicked the aircraft out of trim but it was too late. I sat it down and let him clean himself up and then headed back to the airport. I helped him clean up(if he was an arrogant person I would have let him do it himself but he was a nice guy). Plus I felt pretty bad for him because he was really embarassed. That was his last flight unfortunately.
In this situation I didn't have time to try and get him to look outside and distract him.I would have got him to get sick down into his tee shirt to save the cockpit. It was a memorable first instructional flight for me though!!:ok: