ATC In Unlicensed Airfield

[owen purday]

Good evening,

Just a quick question:

Does a controller at a unlicensed airfield that has a fair amount of traffic need a license?

If so where can these licenses be obtained?

Many thanks

[Chilli Monster]

Unlicensed airfields don't have Controllers.

It is possible you have an Air / Ground Radio Operator at the airfield, in which case reading CAP 452 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP452.PDF) will tell you everything you need to know.

An A/G operator is NOT a Controller.

[owen purday]

Ah ok,

So does that mean once the Radio Telephony course has been taken (the same as the course done during PPL?) a person could work as an air/ground operator?

Many thanks

[tonup]

[QUOTE=Chilli Monster;3092760]Unlicensed airfields don't have Controllers.
Chilli,
see EGSD. Public transport flights from an unlicensed aerodrome with a tower and approach service. Unique in the UK I believe, but quite fun in its day.:)

[Spitoon]

There used to be several unlicensed aerodromes in the UK that had ATC - Chilli's was one of them.

The concept of licensing aerodromes was not common (maybe unique to the UK) until very recently when ICAO introduced the idea of certifying aerodromes. In the UK, if you wanted an aerodrome licence (which you needed for public transport ops or for flying training) you went to one CAA department, if you wanted to have an air traffic service at an aerodrome (whether it was licensed or not) you went to another CAA department. Like any good civil service-like organisation, the two departments really didn't talk much so there was no tie-up between a whether an aerodrome had a licence and whether there was any particular air traffic service provided there.

Apart from ATC, you'll find two leves of service at UK aerodromes - A/G as Chilli mentioned or, possibly, Flight Information Service Officer. Neither are controllers but are permitted to provide certain information to pilots.

[vintage ATCO]

So does that mean once the Radio Telephony course has been taken (the same as the course done during PPL?) a person could work as an air/ground operator?

No. You need an Air/Ground Operator's Certificate (it's all in CAP452). They use to issue one on the back of a FRTOL but not any longer. You would need to sit an exam, hardly arduous.


Chilli, I don't think an aerodrome has to be licensed to have controllers, the two do not necessarily go together, do they? It's just they all seem to. Dunno about North Denes, when was that, tonup? :)

[chevvron]

Places like Dunsfold used to be unlicenced but had ATC, in fact at one time most of the manufacturers airfields were like that; all changed early/mid 80s I think.

[niknak]

[QUOTE=Chilli Monster;3092760]Unlicensed airfields don't have Controllers.
Chilli,
see EGSD. Public transport flights from an unlicensed aerodrome with a tower and approach service. Unique in the UK I believe, but quite fun in its day.:)
Cobblers :hmm: :rolleyes: , EGSD is a licensed airfield, except that it's available for helicopters only with CAA approved instrument approaches, hence the requirement for a full ATC service.

[Talkdownman]

Lasham is an unlicensed aerodrome with air traffic control (APS).

[reportyourlevel]

My understanding of it is that an aerodrome with an approach, holding or let down aid shall have an approach control service (and hence licenced controllers) at the periods/times for which the aid is notified as being in service. So I suppose it is possible to have an unlicenced aerodrome that has an approach aid and licenced ATCOs.

However, I also thought that the public transport of passengers had to take place from a licenced aerodrome (with certain conditions).

ryl

[Talkdownman]

"So I suppose it is possible to have an unlicenced aerodrome that has an approach aid and licenced ATCOs."

It most certainly IS ! It is my bread and butter!

CAP168 is the place to look regarding licensed aerodromes for PT of pax. Too much to summarise here.......

[chevvron]

Don't forget as well as licenced ATCOs, the ATC unit must also have its own licence, irrespective of whether the airfield has a licence.

[NightFlit]

If you don't have an ATC unit, but you have an A/G station that operates only when the bulk of flying is in progress, are you legally required to have such things as signals squares etc?

[Chilli Monster]

It most certainly IS ! It is my bread and butter!

Ahh - wondered when he'd start the "I'm a poor pensioner" routine ;)

[Talkdownman]

They only employ pensioners......because of their vast and valuable experience! Age discrimination rules OK :ok:

[Pierre Argh]

All this debate about aerodrome licenses is interesting but, I suggest, irrelevant as far as controlling (in the broadest sense) is concerned.

Within EU States (under ESORR 5, I think) it is mandatory to have an ICAO approved License to provide an ATC Service, including FIS. In the UK, there are currently some exceptions (e.g. UK Military Controllers who have their own licensing scheme) but the CAA has decreed that all must comply by a deadline later this year.