Old British airline callsigns

[Mooncrest]

One for the more senior members. Does anyone know what callsigns were used in the seventies by the likes of BKS, Northeast, Air Anglia and the original BIA ? Did they just use the airline names, phonetic two-letter designators or just the aircraft registration ? I'm interested because I'm not old enough to remember and I didn't have access to the airbands at the time.

Thankyou.:ok:

[DC10RealMan]

I believe that BIA callsign was"Brit Island"

[boynefly]

I believe that BIA callsign was"Brit Island"
....and Northeast was "Albion"

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

The Northeast Tridents which operated into Heathrow used "Norjet" I believe, but I stand to be corrected. Way back in those days many a/c used registration numbers rather than flight numbers..

[Talkdownman]

BKS - I can't recall BKS (Barnby Keegan Stevens) flight numbers, only reggies.
Northeast - NE - 'Norjet' / 'NorProp' (?)/ 'Albion' Tridents/Viscounts
Air Anglia - AQ -'Air Anglia'
BIA - 'BritIsland'
I think I need to go up into the loft.........I'm sure that there is a de-code up there fom the early seventies. Funny how one forgets having used them on the Ambers every day (Sector 7/13.....!) Reggies went out when stored FPLs came in. Saved having to refile after an aircraft change.

[Loki]

Boynefly:

Don`t think "Albion" was exclusively Northeast.....I remember it briefly being used when I was in Scotland for what I had previously called "Beeline", i.e Viscounts and Budgies.

[vintage ATCO]

BKS was, er, 'BKS' wasn't it?
Beeline was BEA of course.

[Talkdownman]

BKS was, er, 'BKS' wasn't it?....or ' Beekayess' as it appeared in the documents...

[2 sheds]

A correction to info above if I may - Air Anglia's radio callsign was "Anglia".

[NorthSouth]

BKS was, er, 'BKS' wasn't it?
Beeline was BEA of course.I can remember the BKS Ambassador service from Belfast calling up as "BKS November Fox"
NS

[autothrottle]

Not nearly as far back, in the early 90's was Excalibur Airways. Their callsign initially was "Camelot" but they had to change it as apparently the word in french is offensive. I know its not old but members of my generation will remember this one...probably:)

[Wycombe]

Not old, but how did Excel end up with "Exbow" or whatever it is?

One that's not so old but not heard anymore = "Birmex" for Birmingham European/Maersk UK.

Do Bmi Regional still use "Granite"?

[Lon More]

All two letter codes back then
IIRC BKS (BK) was Barnaby, Keegan & Stevens
OU = Autair also used the last 2 letters of the reg.
BY = Britannia
BE = Beeline BEA just used the registration, as did BA = BOAC
RS = Ascot
RR = Rafair (remember details passed as "a military twin Jet" "Roger, Dominie")
BM = BMA (Midland)
PA = Pan Am

and many more, now forgotten. I think we had to learn the whole book back in the 1960s when I started at LATCC:zzz:

[spekesoftly]

PA = Pan Am = "Clipper"

[The SSK]

IIRC BKS (BK) was Barnaby, Keegan & Stevens
No it wasn't. It was like Talkdownman said.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

I recall Air 2000 using letter group MM with a callsign of JETSET. Memory hazy here but didn't Monarch use KG as their letter group? I don't recall ASCOT (RR) being used by other than Support Command. I'm pretty certain that the bombers shooting an ILS used their Mil callsigns; preceded with A/C Type if we were lucky. HSA Woodford flights always used the individual pilot's ident number; AVRO 1 being the Ch TP.

[Spiney Norman]

Re Northeast...I'm pretty sure than when the Viscounts were doing the Leeds-Liverpool-Belfast Aldergrove service in the 1970's the callsign 'Norjet' was used. When the yellow/grey/white colour scheme was introduced the aircraft were nicknamed 'banana boats' but this might have been a scouse thing! Personally I always liked that colour scheme, which was also applied to Cambrian but substituting a magenta like colour for the yellow.

Spiney.

[Mooncrest]

"Albion" for Northeast. That's quite imaginitive. Wonder where the yellow folks came up with that one ? It's more original than "Northeast" if nothing else. I find it difficult to imagine the Viscount flights using the "Speedbird" c/s when the Northeast aircraft were repainted in the BA colours. Much as I love the old aeroplane it just doesn't strike me as a speeding bird !
BKS is a little before my time so I'll take anyone's word on that. British Island clearly used the same c/s when the company reappeared in the early eighties. As for Air Anglia, what could be simpler ?
Dan Air I do remember. Just Dan Air plus an alpha-numeric suffix that bore absolutely no relation to the flight number (scheduled flights only). DAB6ER was LBA-GLA, flight number DA064, I think. Something to do with a never- ending experiment into minimising callsign confusion.
Oh dear, now I sound like a perfect anorak. Back to the pills for me...:{
Seriously, thankyou for all the replies so far.;)

[Mooncrest]

Golf Bravo Zulu. KG was used by Orion Airways. I don't know if they made it to three-letter designators before Britannia got hold of them. Monarch's two-letter designator was OM. MM/AMM was Air 2000 with the Jetset c/s. Jetset is now used by First Choice.

[throw a dyce]

Wycombe,
BMI regional use ''Midland'' now.I think ''Granite'' was Business Air until it became,merged,evolved into BMI regional.They used to be Air Ecosse in the 70's.Callsign Ecosse.
Mooncrest.
Then there was Aberdeen Airways with ''Bon Accord''.
Good old Dan Air. (Dan dare,Dan scare).The alpha numerics were a later addition.Brymon and Alidair as well but they just used straightforward callsigns.
Ah that was when the job was fun.:ok:

[Spiney Norman]

Throw a dyce.
You're spot on with 'Granite' & 'Ecosse'. The Datapost Banderante and Shed flights off the 80's into Luton certainly made the night duties pass quickly!
On the topic of airlines changing callsigns then ending up with the original......Airtours/My Travel. Started off as 'Kestrel'. Became 'Tourjet'. Now back to Kestrel again. The original change, so we were told, was because of a callsign clash with a small operator in the then brand new CCS. The renaming to Mytravel brought it back again.

Spiney

[Skytrucker87]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh.... the mention of Autair brings back a few mammaries. We used c/s 'Autair' even with Court Line.

[Spiney Norman]

ICAO code OU...ATC callsigns were the aircraft registration with the trip number in field 18 of the FPL. Tristars doing visual circuits with touch and go's on a 2160m runway....lovely!

Spiney

[almost professional]

which some of us watched from our classroom window because we are not that old!:)

[Spiney Norman]

I bet you were writing the reggies down though weren't you? Come on! Admit it!

Spiney

[almost professional]

that little habit went back to the Autair Ambassadors and Britannia Brits!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

All this is related elsewhere... but Norjet has been mentioned.. soo...

Around Christmas time in Heathrow Tower... Norjet Trident landed having busted the Aberdeen to London record with a direct routing and a really tight split-a**e visual on to 28R. "Congratulations from us all", said I, "How about bringing the girls up to see us?" A little later the whole crew came up and a great time was had by all. (I was going to mention that they brought up several cases of beer to quench our thirsts...... but I'd better not!).

It was either the Captain or F/O I chatted to about the length of final some pilots required in a Trident. He told me he had trained with John Cunningham at Hatfield and when he asked how tight a final could be flown, "Cateyes" took off, kept the wingtip within the airfield boundary and then landed.... Who needs 10 mile finals? Not Norjet!!

Old mate of mine used to fly Avro 748s for BKS.. Captain Malcolm Rolph. Haven't heard of him for 30+ years.

[Helen49]

The prefix Norjet was certainly used by the whole Northeast fleet, including VC8s. Naturally the latter were frequently referred to as nojets!

Malcolm Rolph left the then BA (VC8s) and went via Orion (A300s), Capital (146s) to Bae at, Woodford test flying. A very professional operator and generally good egg.
H49

[edinv]

Albion= BZ= British Airways Regional Division ( former NS / CS / BE Scottish & Channel Island Airways Divs) - Did not last too long, all BA & Speedbird by the end of the 70s!

[Mooncrest]

Albion does sound vaguely familiar now it's been mentioned a few times. Maybe I heard it on an old airband radio in the late seventies. I thought BA just used "Speedbird" and "Shuttle" but, for a time, obviously not.

Any other contributions about the past gratefully read.

MC

[DC10RealMan]

Ah! DanAir, the most wonderful airline particularly if you were a staff traveller. They could not do enough for you. Wonderful airline, ever helpful staff. I remember taking my 92 year old grannie to Paris on DanAir, we were on our way to the Somme area of Picardy to visit her brothers grave who was killed in the Great War in 1917. I called DanAir ops the evening before to ask them to inform the cabin staff of her age as it was the first time that she had flown and the intention of our flight. The flight deck and cabin crew could not have been kinder and treated her like royalty. I wonder if that personnal touch exists nowadays. Good Old DanAir! Happy Days!!!!

[Spiney Norman]

Mooncrest, if you're interested, (probably not)!! As there's been mention of test pilot callsigns, (AVRO for Woodford). Just remembered a couple but my memory isn't perfect for the locations so I stand by to be corrected but.........
NEWPIN. Followed by a number. i.e. NEWPIN 29 was, I think Hawarden during the 125 building years.
TARNISH. Warton?
BLACKBOX. followed by an alpha numeric. i.e. BLACKBOX DELTA. Bedford Thurleigh?
The thing that worries me is that I can't remember Hatfield's even though I worked them many times!!!! The various manufacturing sites were then linked by a DH Dove company service, (Brough, Woodford, Warton, Prestwick, and very occasionally Dunsfold). These aircraft operated on the aircraft registration and not on a company callsign. The only reg I remember was G-AREA. There was also a Farnborough callsign that was used for the Navajo MOD(PE) inter-site shuttle if anyone can remember. Oh! By the way, I'm talking late 70's, early 80's here.

Talking Dan Air...I was just coming on for a morning duty as the 727 flew through the 26 Localiser at Luton! Myself and the Supervisor retrieved the tail bumper from the debris!!! We just got it into the back of the Land Rover!
Spiney

[Loki]

Spiney Norman

We used NUGGET a lot at Bedford when I was there. BLACKBOX, I seem to remember was for RRE Pershore aircraft.

[Spiney Norman]

Thanks Loki.
I thought Blackbox might be Bedford as the only operation I could remember was a Canberra with some sort of radar trial that used to fly over the Dunstable area operating from Thurleigh. Had I thought it through I should have realised it might have been working for RRE Defford! However I should think some of the Pershore operation moved to Thurleigh when Pershore closed. Did the callsign come with it for their pilots, or did it just disappear I wonder?

Spiney

[Loki]

Spiney

So when was this? There was talk of Pershore moving to Thurleigh when I was there (early 70s).

Bit of thread drift here though...`tis supposed to be about airline callsigns.

I remember a literally fly by night operation at Heathrow called sagittair, who had three Beech 18s; used to do EGLL ESGG in the middle of the night.

And what of Airbridge, which became Hunting, and then Contract, confused? I still am.

[BEXIL160]

From distant memory.....

RAE Farnborough was allocated "NUGGET", and the callsigns were individual to pilots sooo....

01 was "the boss"
02 deputy boss

04 Wing Comander Flying?

05-19 various Test Pilots

20-22 transport flight pilots (they flew the "ferry" service in the Devons and later, the PA31s.... one or two also drove the Farnborough Dak KG661/ZA947)

30 -ish Helicopter test pilots ???

60 - 62 Meteorological Flight pilots. (Usually associated with the "METMAN" C130 "Snoopy" although at least one of these chaps flew the Chieftans as well).

Boscombe Down used "GAUNTLET" plus numbers for their test pilots and West Freugh (whatever happened to THAT place?) had something else for their balck and yellow Buccs.

All the above is from a VERY deep recess of my mind..... so might well need some correction

Mr. Clarke will be along shortly to tell me I've got it all wrong. over to you Terry.

Rgsd BEX

[Loki]

I remember the Bedford Nuggets mostly started with 9....one that sticks in my mind was Nugget 93; who during my time was a Scottish gentleman I associate most closely with the Sea Vixen for some reason.

[Talkdownman]

From distant memory.....
RAE Farnborough was allocated "NUGGET", and the callsigns were individual to pilots sooo....
01 was "the boss"
02 deputy boss
04 Wing Comander Flying?
05-19 various Test Pilots
20-22 transport flight pilots (they flew the "ferry" service in the Devons and later, the PA31s.... one or two also drove the Farnborough Dak KG661/ZA947)
30 -ish Helicopter test pilots ???
60 - 62 Meteorological Flight pilots. (Usually associated with the "METMAN" C130 "Snoopy" although at least one of these chaps flew the Chieftans as well).
Boscombe Down used "GAUNTLET" plus numbers for their test pilots and West Freugh (whatever happened to THAT place?) had something else for their balck and yellow Buccs.
All the above is from a VERY deep recess of my mind..... so might well need some correction
Mr. Clarke will be along shortly to tell me I've got it all wrong. over to you Terry.
Rgsd BEX
Yes, Chevvron will be along shortly to cooroborate, from but '82-'86
01 was OC, Gp Capt, last seen CFI Old Sarum
02 was Wg Cdr Flying
09 was a one-off...Fred Stringer
10 - 14 Transport. (I can remember most of their names.....)
20 - 23 were the 'airliner' boys
Yes, the 30's were usually rotary esp 37 but 38 and 39 were the IAM rehab Docs in the fast jets. Good old 38, took me for some dual in XL565.
40 was another one-off
50's were the fast jet jocks
You're dead right about Metman
All the names are flooding back.......
Boscombe also had 'Tester'. I used to enjoy intercomming to the tower just before transfer from Stud 2 to Stud 1 "Tester Calls"........

[spekesoftly]

NEWPIN. Followed by a number. i.e. NEWPIN 29 was, I think Hawarden during the 125 building years.
TARNISH. Warton?

Can confirm NEWPIN for Hawarden, and TARNISH for Warton.

The thing that worries me is that I can't remember Hatfield's even though I worked them many timesThe Hatfield TPs' c/s was "TIBET".

The various manufacturing sites were then linked by a DH Dove company service, (Brough, Woodford, Warton, Prestwick, and very occasionally Dunsfold). These aircraft operated on the aircraft registration and not on a company callsign. The only reg I remember was G-AREA.IIRC, another of the company 'hacks' was G-ASEC or "Golf Alpha Sausage Egg n'Chips", as one of the pilots was sometimes heard to say!

[vintage ATCO]

The Hatfield TPs' c/s was "TIBET".

I think they spelt it Tibbit. I still see Tibbit 11.

[spekesoftly]

I think they spelt it Tibbit. I still see Tibbit 11.

I think you could be right. Thanks! :ok:

EDIT: Just had a quick look Here (http://www.airlinecodes.co.uk/) and it gives "TIBBET" for Hatfield. Ah well, pretty close, either way.

[Talkdownman]

IIRC 'Tibbet 22' was John Cunningham in the mid sixties.

[almost professional]

Merlin is the C/S now used by the RR Spitfire (despite being Griffon powered!)

[Fokkerwokker]

Apologies for thread drift but I recollect we used "Hanair" at Radlett on test flying.

Eeeeek!!! - 40 years ago!

FW

[Atcham Tower]

Newpin is definitely still in use by Raytheon at Hawarden. I believe Tarnish is still used at Warton? Yeovil's callsign Judwin Tower (still in use?) is not geographical but is Westland's prefix dating back to WW2. (Source: Air-Britain)

[2 sheds]

No longer in use - it's now Westland Tower, Approach etc

[Wycombe]

The other callsign to be heard for Warton-based BAE a/c is "FELIX".
The 146's of BAE's Corporate Air Travel (CAT) Dept. use it, what humourous chaps :ok:

[easyJohn]

That's right, they did use the callsign 'Norjet'.

[Jumbo Driver]

Mooncrest, as a more "senior member", I have just come across my original issue UK Air Pilot, which I am ashamed to say has remained unamended since about 1969!

However, within the COM Section at Appendix 9 is a list of "Telegraphy and Radiotelephony Abbreviations (for) Aircraft Operating Agencies". The page is dated 26.1.68.

Here is the gist of it - it may be of interest ...

Airborne Aviation Services (Gatwick) Ltd / YI / -
Air Couriers Ltd / QU / MESSENGER
Air Ferry, Ltd / LK / AIR FERRY
Air Links Ltd / IK / -
Air London / MI / -
Airwork Services Training / - / AIRWORK
Atlas Air Express / LS / -
Autair International Airways Ltd / OU / AUTAIR
Automobile Association / - / FANUM
Aviation Charter Enterprises Ltd / FC / -
B.A.C. (Filton Division) / OF / -
Bedfordshire Air Centre Ltd / - / BEDSAIR
Bees Flight,Ltd, / BF / BUMBLE
B.K.S. Air Transport, Ltd / BK / BEEKAYESS
Bristol Siddeley Engines Ltd / BT / -
Britannia Airways Ltd / BY / BRITANNIA
British Eagle International Airlines Ltd / EG / EAGLE
British European Airways Corporation / BE / BEALINE
British Insulated Callenders Cables Ltd / BC / BICAL
British Midland Airways Ltd / BD / BRITISH MIDLAND
British Overseas Airways Corporation / BA / SPEEDBIRD
British United Airways / BR / BRITISH UNITED
British United Air Ferries Ltd / VF / BRITISH UNITED
British United (C.I.), Ltd / JY / BRITISH UNITED
Bristow Helicopters, Ltd / - / BRISTOW
British United (Manx) Airways / NX / -
Business Aircraft Users Association, Ltd / - / BIZAIR
Caledonian AIrways Ltd / CA / CALEDONIAN
Cambrian Airways, Ltd / CS / CAMBRIAN
Cardinal Air Taxis Ltd / KG / CARDINAL
Channel Airways Ltd / CW / CHANNEL AIR
Civil Aviation Flying Unit / MC / MINAIR
Club Aviation (Cheltenham), Ltd / - / CHELTHAM
Chartair Ltd / - / CHARTAIR
Dan-Air Services, Ltd / DA / DANAIR
Don Everall (Aviation), Ltd / ER / EVERALL
Duncan Logan (Contractors), Ltd / DU / LOGANAIR
Dunlop Rubber Co., Ltd (Aviation Division) / DP / DUNLOP
Emerald Airways Ltd / EF / -
E. Raffles and Co. Ltd / - / RAFFLES
E.S. and A. Robinson / RL / -
Executive Air Transport Ltd / EZ / EXECUTIVE
Executive (Handling) Services Ltd Gatwick / YE / -
Fairey Air Surveys Ltd / FY / -
Ferranti Ltd / FB / -
Field Aircraft Services Ltd / FS / -
Flight Refuelling Ltd / FR / TANKAIR
Granada TV Network Ltd / GD / GRANADA
Gregory Air Services Ltd / GZ / GREGAIR
Herts. and Essex Aero Club, Ltd / HZ / HARTEX
Hunting Surveys Ltd / HG / -
International Helicopters Ltd / - / SKYCRANE
Invicta Airways Ltd / IM / -
Iraq Petroleum Co. Ltd / - / IPC
King Aviation Ltd / - / KINGAVIA
Laker Airways Ltd / GK / LAKER
Lloyd International Airways Ltd / LW / -
Manchester Airport Agencies / MJ / -
Manx Airlines, Ltd / - / MANXMAN
Marshalls' Flying Services, Ltd / MF / MARSHALL
McVitie & Price. Ltd / - / MCVITIE
Morton Air Services, Ltd / MT / MORTON
Northern Air Taxis Ltd / NT / NORTHAIR
North Sea Air Transport, Ltd / NS / NORSEA
Nuclear Power Group / NP / NUPOWER
Plymouth Aero Club, Ltd / PL / PLYFLY
Pressed Steel Co., Ltd (Aviation Division) / PX / PRESTAIR
Royal Air Force / - / RAFAIR
Royal Navy / - / NAVAIR
Sir Alfred McA1pine & Sons Ltd / - / MCALPINE
Skycabs / - / SKYCABS
Sky Charters Ltd / JE / -
Skyfame Ltd / - / SKYFAME
Skyways, Ltd / SY / SKYWAY
Skywork Ltd / - / AIRMOVE
Southend Municipal Flying School / SM / SCOFLY
Starways. Ltd / WY / STARWAYS
Surrey and Kent Flying Club Ltd / - / KENTAIR
Swift Travel Services Ltd / SS / -
The Air Taxi Operators Association Ltd / - / TAXAIR
The Rank Organisation Ltd / - / RANKJET
Tradair / TQ / TRADAIR
Trans Meridian Flying Services Ltd / TO / TRANS MERIDIAN
Treffield International Airways Ltd
(Formerly Treffield Aviation Ltd) / TJ / (1) TREFFIELD (2) SKYFRATE
United Biscuit Co Ltd / - / YOOBEE
United Steel Companies Ltd / UZ / UNISTEEL
Universal F1ying Services, Ltd / UF / UNIFLY
Westair Flying Services Ltd / - / CESSNAIR
Western Airways, Ltd / WN / WESTWAY
Wiltshire School of Flying. Ltd / WS / AEROWILT
Yorkshire Flying Services Ltd / - / YORKAIR



Jumbo Driver

:)

[Talkdownman]

Thanks, Jumbo Driver, certainly is of interest! Quite a memory-jerker, not least of which brings back memories of lugging around that Jan 68 big red Air Pilot during my Primary Course at Hurn.....and the memory of the consecutive sections of it: AGA/COM/MET/RAC/FAL/SAR/MAP/GEN. Sad.....or what......and used to fly in 'Minair Fox Tango' during the lunchbreaks.....

[Jumbo Driver]

Talkdownman

...and I've just found the Radio Facilities Chart (11.1.68) ...

There are NDB's at Hurn and Fawley, a VDF at Southampton and Hamble (sigh), and a VOR at Ibsley ...

Oh, and I see Heathrow has 5 operational runways ... 05L/23R, 05R/23L, 10L/28R, 10R/28L and 15R/33L ...

... not many airways - but fan markers simply everywhere ...



Jumbo Driver

:)

[Talkdownman]

Don't bin it!
Fans? Compton, Haslemere, Beacon Hill, Chertsey, Matching, Woburn, Outers, Middles, Inners, fahsands of 'em....
Airways? Red 1, Green 1, Amber 1, Amber 2, Blue 1 (Used to be Green 2), White 39, et ceteraaa, a lot easier to remember than Upper Lima 866 and so on.
The old props, Connies, and Seven Seas etc, used to whizz past the Southern ATCC (in Block 1) when landing 15R. I remember the approach lights were on telegraph poles.....not exactly 'frangible'........
The old sawn-off Runway 16 stopped in the Mikes, known as 'Waites Alley' after a certain Viscount's very abbreviated take-off run in fog one day.....

[GK430]

I'll get my 1972 Half mil chart out - controlled airspace - what's that!

Air 2000 (First Choice AMM/DP) started with Air2000 as the c/s. I recall
Air2000 262 which UK ATCO's just about coped with....not sure about the Europeans down Amber 34 though. Jetset soon followed.

Maersk Air was not Birmex, but Blue Star - even though it was a white star on blue background.

Not British, but I think CP Air had the best - "Empress":ok:

[Dash-7 lover]

Aberdeen Airways callsign was 'Grampian'

[boredcounter]

Maersk Air (UK) Ltd did for a while operate as 'Birmex' prior to the change to 'Bluestar'. 'Whitestar' belonging to Star Air, now the only Maersk (AP Moller) airline, I believe.
Bored

[GK430]

Bored Counter

Wondered where you got to. Hope you found a hangar where they keep the doors firmly closed over the next few days:cool: 'Cause the temp is dropping.
Used to communicate with you from across 15/33 but with a different handle or whatever they're called.
Did you go at same time as duo?

BHX ain't going nowhere - I gather Macquarie wanted to take the Council's 49% but it's back to the middle ages instead:ugh:

[airsmiles]

Court Line used to use the 'Halcyon' call-sign.

[vintage ATCO]

Court Line used to use the 'Halcyon' call-sign.

Did they? I worked at Luton at the time and don't remember that. Mind you, brain's not what it use to be. I thought they used registrations mainly.

[chiglet]

CourtLine used "CourtLine", Halcyon xxxxx was the a/c name
watp,iktch

[Spiney Norman]

I'm with Va on the 'Halcyon' subject. It was used as an aircraft naming prefix. I can't honestly remember the matching colours but there were...'Halcyon nights'(I think purple). 'Halcyon breeze', (I think green), etc etc. It certainly was never used as an RTF callsign during my time at Luton. Courtline were unusual in that they didn't use trip numbers on the RTF, they filed them in item 18 of the flightplan but actually operated under individual aircraft registrations. I was at Luton from 74-89 but Va beats me by miles and probably has a much better memory! :)

Spiney

[boredcounter]

cough, corrected your post as one that was there, nough said.
bored

[Human Factor]

"Bealine" is still in use by the BA tugs at LHR.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Spiney Norman

You've just reminded me of those bloody awful Courtline colour schemes! I recall it was also Company policy that the stewardesses had to have uniforms colour co-ordinated with the A/C.

Talkdownman

Was that Viscount the German one in early ''72?

[hatters united]

Spiney Norman.
You'll find that Court Line used the same Halcyon name on several aircraft at the same time. I think there were at least 3 Halcyon Days and 2 Halcyon Suns, Clouds & Breeze.

Golf Bravo Zulu.
I'm told by my better half ( ex Court Line Trolly Dolly ) that she had all the different coloured uniforms to match the aircraft but when called out on stand-by was often in the wrong colour. :{
M.H.

[Bern Oulli]

One has a colour slide of three of 'em on an otherwise deserted Stansted airfield circa one cannot remember. If I can find it I will post it.

[kala87]

What a fascinating thread.

Heathrow Director: The Northeast Trident doing a "split-arse circuit" at LHR could well have been flown by the late Capt. Arthur Whitlock. He mentions in his autobiographical book "Through the cockpit door" sitting in the right hand seat of a Trident at Hatfield flown by the late John Cunningham, who performed the same procedure, as part of his type conversion training on the Trident.

I can recollect BKS using the call sign "BKS" followed by the aircraft reg. in the 1960's. For example, "BKS lima lima" and "BKS bravo kilo" were very commonly heard callsigns on Amber 1 and Amber 2 airways in the mid to late 1960's, and belonged respectively to Britannias GAPLL and GANBK as they shuttle between LHR and Newcastle.

I can also recall that even some major airlines used the aircraft reg. in the 1960's as opposed to flight numbers. Sabena did for all flights, even transatlantic 707's, and Air France did for all European flights (but not long-haul, except for charters). BEA of course used the prefix "Bealine" followed by the aircraft reg. BOAC however always used "Speedbird" followed by the flight number.

Happy days!

[WHBM]

For the Court Line old hands :

Pink (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1167852/M/ )

Turquoise (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0487984/M/ )

Yellow (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0333115/M/ )

And finally the two Tristars, Pink and Yellow (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0683963/M/ ) together. There was never a green one.

There seem differences of opinion on what to call the colours; for example the one I call Pink sometimes is described as Purple.

Court had some other unusual traits. They would timetable for their charter clients from Luton to a Mediterranean destination maybe just once or twice a week, but would use anything up to four aircraft on the departure in high season, depending on the pax load.

[Spiney Norman]

WHBM.
Yep. I always thought of the turquoise as 'green' but I think you're definately missing a purple one. I think the registration was GAZ** ? I'm now in search of a photo....... I'm pretty certain it was 'Halcyon nights' and that there may have been only one BAC1-11 500 in that scheme. However, I stand to be corrected on this.
I certainly remember the hosties wearing the 'matching' uniforms. I was once told that the original plan was for the pilots to be issued with the pastel uniforms too!!! If true I bet that went down like a lead balloon! It certainly didn't last into my period at Luton, if in fact it was ever introduced!

Spiney

[WHBM]

If anyone has Tony Merton-Jones' "History of British Independent Airlines" to hand (mine is at home and I am not) he lists all the Court Line aircraft names (including the changes) and colours.

Pastel uniforms for the flight deck would indeed have caused a stir, but they could probably have just about got away with ties. It was the 1970s !

[Spiney Norman]

Thanks WHBM.
I've just been searching through the net to see if I could find the 'purple' one and found G-AZEB which is in fact....pink....Ah well! Memory is a funny thing!!! Sounds like a good book to have in the 'reference library'.

Spiney.

[Fokkerwokker]

GK430

You are quite correct. I joined Air Two Bob on day 1 and I recollect spitting out crew food, and our elongated callsign, simultaneously in the early days.

A competition was held to come up with a company c/s and it was won by the secretary(CQ) of one of the bosses(AK).

I know we cringed for ages until we got used to it. Other airlines certainly took the 'you know what'!!:O

[GK430]

Fokkerwokker
But Jetset will survive, despite the naff First Choice livery just to make the punters associate will the travel company - If only the cabin crew wore that original black/white uniform, better still;)

COURT LINE - weren't they born out of Autair....fuzzy memory:confused:

[Talkdownman]

........which was born out of Euravia.....

[Dan Air 87]

This is a really nice thread and I well recall my flights with Dan Air to Abz and Zrh on business and I loved the 1-11's. Sometimes on a Sunday night the DA 188 to Abz went up via NCL which was a nice change. I also remember the B Cal 1-11's too and also took their DC10's to Hong Kong. Did they use B Cal as their call sign or was it Caledonian?

I know its not related to this thread but for a further memory jogger can anyone remember the words to the B cal tv ad sung to the tune of California Girls as Caledonia Girls!!!

[vintage ATCO]

.......which was born out of Euravia.....

Tut tut, call yourself a spotter . . . .
Euravia became Britannia Airways.

Court Line was indeed born out of Autair.

Spent many a night in the Flying Club bar trying discover if the girls wore matching underw . . . . . :E

[Talkdownman]

Oh yeah sorry.
You young blokes bound to have good memories.
Brian.

[WHBM]

Spent many a night in the Flying Club bar trying discover if . . . . .
Well go on then. Did they ..... ??? :)

[Lon More]

Well go on then. Did they ..... ???

Some did ....

but not for long

[clicker]

Just checked my few slides re the 1-11's and I have
G-AXMH Yellow
G-AXMJ Green
G_AXML Pink
G-AZEC Purple
G-AXLM White with a two tone green cheat line

The Pink and Purple were taken from the same spot on the same day and clearly different.

I can't remember why G-AXLM was different, in the background of that picture you can see MJ in full green behind. However I think it was a British Midland a/c leased to Court Line so all they did was paint over the cheat line.

Did fly on both the Tristars, locally nicknamed "Pink Panther" and "Banana Split" accordingly IIRC.

[clicker]

Further on Court Line, yes they used registrations as a callsign. Court Line Echo Bravo etc.

Seem to recall that after the collapse operators that brought the aircraft had to change the registrations as they keep getting problems abroad, people said they owed monies and wanted their cash and all based on the registration it carried over.

[WHBM]

Well here, courtesy of Tony Merton-Jones' book mentioned above, is the Court Line fleet, with names and colours, for those old enough to remember a more colourful era. Court Line started in January 1970 and pretty much replaced the old Autair fleet on day one. They went out of business in August 1974.


Type____________Reg____Name___________In____Out_______Colour

One Eleven 400__G-AWBL Halcyon Dawn___Jan70 Jan71_____Turquoise
One Eleven 500__G-AXMF Halcyon Breeze Jan70 Aug74_____Pink
________________G-AXMG Halcyon Sky____Jan70 Aug74_____Turquoise
________________G-AXMH Halcyon Sun____Feb70 Aug74_____Orange
________________G-AXMI Halcyon Days___Mar70 Aug74_____Pink
________________G-AXMJ Halcyon Night__Mar70 Aug74_____Turquoise
________________G-AXMK Halcyon Star___Apr70 Aug74_____Turquoise later Orange
________________G-AXML Halcyon Cloud__Apr70 Aug74_____Pink
________________G-AYOP Halcyon Beach__Mar71 Feb73_____Orange
________________G-AYOR Halcyon Dawn___Mar71 Aug74_____Orange
________________G-AZEB Halcyon Bay____Sep71 Aug74_____Lilac
________________G-AZEC Halcyon Cove___Sep71 Aug74_____Lilac
________________G-BCCV Halcyon Beach__Apr74 Aug74_____Lilac
________________G-AYXB Halcyon Bay____71 lease from Austral
________________G-AXLN________________72-73 lease from BMA
________________G-AXLM________________73-74 lease from BMA
Tristar_________G-BAAA Halcyon Days___Mar73 Aug74_____Orange
________________G-BAAB Halcyon Breeze May73 Aug74_____Pink

HS125___________G-AVRG Halcyon Day____Nov71 Aug74_____Orange
Navajo__________G-AYEI________________Jun70 Nov72_____Orange
Jet Ranger______G-AXMM________________Jan70 Aug74_____Orange

[Lon More]

In the light of later events an unfortunate tale of AB on approach. Departing BEA flight cleared to line up after the landing Tristar. "Roger, line up after the landing Pink Elephant " Quick-witted reply, "Better than being a white one."

[GK430]

Bored C - when was the duo launch? I have some nice pics - if only I could find them:ugh:
but in the meantime
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/G-AWBL.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/LG0453.jpg

[Spiney Norman]

WHBM.
Thanks for the list. Wouldn't it have been great to see the Beverley they bought in any of the pastel liveries? Or then again...perhaps not? Interesting to see that GAZEB is listed as 'lilac' but looked pink in the photo I discovered, could well have been the sun angle I suppose. I do remember the JetRanger but not that it flew very much! GAWBL went to Cambrian and was a regular at Liverpool operating the Heathrow service, (CS101 etc)? The 1-11's used to do engineering ground runs on the 'pans' on the Southern edge of the old main apron. Sometimes up to take-off power! So much for noise complaints!
Airline Engineering at Luton used to be fairly regularly visited by Donaldson 707's, (I believe they had two) and...getting slightly back on thread...they don't seem to have been mentioned yet?

Spiney
P.S. Vintage ATCO..I bet DC could have answered your question!

[vintage ATCO]

Well here, courtesy of Tony Merton-Jones' book mentioned above, is the Court Line fleet,

You've forgotten the Beverley . . . :)

[Lon More]

Vintage ATCO See you're returning to the scene of previous crimes on April 21 :}










Badgers Hill (http://www.lutonsfc.ac.uk/lutonhome/GuestZone/StudentReunion/Index.html)

[WHBM]

You've forgotten the Beverley
Did they ever fly it ?

[Spiney Norman]

No...And you're right to allude to this as to why it doesn't appear on the list. It was flown in then just stood whilst attempts were made to obtain a C of A of some sort. I do however remember there being engine runs. I can't say whether Courtline being liquidated, or the fact it couldn't be certified was the reason it was disposed of. The aircraft became the clubhouse at Hull Paull airfield and may have been flown out? Courtline did make fairly regular use of BAF Carvairs to ferry large parts out to aircraft that were u/s abroad. I do recall one taking an engine out to Tenerife!! Which must have been a pretty good haul at the time. The financial reasons for purchasing the Beverley must have looked pretty good, no doubt they got it for peanuts, but the fact the aircraft never had a civil certificate of airworthiness would have always been a major problem. For this reason it was never issued a civil registration.
Spiney.

[GK430]

Euravia did someone say?
(And only becuase of the wx today)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/EVS.jpg
and then those brilliant marketing yuppies took over the world again:{
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/Britannia.jpg
and now even that last sign of posterity has gawn

[vintage ATCO]

Originally Posted by vintage ATCO http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3115132#post3115132)
You've forgotten the BeverleyDid they ever fly it ?Well, I saw it arrive, and I saw it leave (after one circuit) :)

Vintage ATCO See you're returning to the scene of previous crimes on April 21 :}Sadly I don't think I'll be making that now.

[Talkdownman]

You not feeling too good, Steve?

[Mooncrest]

I'm rather glad I started this thread although it seems recently to have morphed into a Court Line discussion forum ! This is something I can't join in on I'm afraid as this airline never visited Leeds in my memory. Mind you we didn't get regular jet charters from this gaff till Britannia came along in 76. Short runways and all that. Still I'd like to have seen and heard the pastel set.

Still can't swallow Northeast using "Norjet" for their Viscount flights. Somehow it doesn't sound right..

[WHBM]

I'm rather glad I started this thread although it seems recently to have morphed into a Court Line discussion forum ! This is something I can't join in on I'm afraid as this airline never visited Leeds in my memory. Mind you we didn't get regular jet charters from this gaff till Britannia came along in 76. Short runways and all that. Still I'd like to have seen and heard the pastel set.

Yes I'm sorry to have been among those guilty of turning this into something from the Aviation History & Nostalgia forum. But I'll try a link with your background. One of those One-Elevens that Court leased from BMA performed the first ever jet departure from Leeds when it was new, in 1970, on the BMA schedule to Glasgow. Apparently it woke up the whole of Yorkshire ..... :) But yes, Court Line was mainly a southern England-based operator. Clarksons, their associated tour operator and main client, preferred to charter Dan-Air Comets from northern departure points. They built up quite a substantial business out of Teesside, which never seems to have recovered its position after 1974.

[Mooncrest]

WHBM

At the risk of being guilty of "creeping" my own thread, I thought it was an Aer Lingus 1-11 that did the first jet job from LBA ? I wasn't born but I'm sure I heard my mum's neighbour from their old house years ago (gasp) say something along those lines. Evidently it was the noise that informed everyone. I'd forgotten BMA operated from LBA back then. They got properly established in 1980.

Aer Lingus, of course, used the highly original "Aer Lingus" c/s until about 1986. Then came "Shamrock". Beats me why they didn't think of that before.

Unfortunately, I've now got Court Line on the brain. Even had a dream about one of their TriStars last night. Dear oh dear.:(

[Skipness One Echo]

Every publication I've ever come across on the subject lists British Airtours as using "Beatours" as the company callsign, derived from "Bealine" no doubt. However, I always remember their TriStars in the 1980s using "Airtours"! Anyone comment?

[WHBM]

I thought it was an Aer Lingus 1-11 that did the first jet job from LBA ?
Aer Lingus only had four One Elevens, built in 1966 (which they used for decades and certainly got their money's worth out of them). They were not used on UK routes for a long time, but on Continental European routes. They had licences on many of these to stop at Manchester to help build up the loads to Frankfurt, Amsterdam, etc, one result of this being that Manchester saw Aer Lingus jets well before Heathrow did.

The main likelihood of them coming through Leeds in the 1960s therefore would be a Manchester diversion. Although I don't have the schedules for the period, even if they did one or two fill-in timetabled tasks Leeds would have been one of the least likely points on their network. The British Midland One Eleven I referred to at Leeds was however on a regular schedule.

Sorry for this thread creep on the ATC forum, so while I am here thanks to all you guys and girls at weekends for help from a very part-time flyer.

[The SSK]

I just happen to have a Summer 1969 ABC to hand. All services at LBA were operated by Viscounts (BKS, Channel and Aer Lingus) except for BUA Heralds to IOM.
Sorry, that's not an answer to the question that wasn't asked in the first place.
Just to get back to One-Elevens, I saw BUA's first one, brand-spanking new with the paint still wet, at Heathrow of all places.

Edit: oops, this isn't the 1-11 thread. Never mind

[Buster the Bear]

The airline that never flew, Chiltern Airways! Proposed services from Luton to major European destinations in the 1980's with a fleet of F27's. Their callsign would have been quite apt, Cavalier, as they were still building them down the road at the time. Their HQ was an office in Halcyon House!

[Bern Oulli]

Court Line. Taken from the Tower EGSS c.1970http://www.meddemmen.co.uk/oddphotos/A124.jpg

[Musket90]

Great photo bringing back fond memories - weather obviously not good at LTN.

[tczulu]

Met the guy supposedly setting it up in the 80s through a mutual friend.Never sounded a goer to me then,but what the hell ,I was only a humble ATCO2 working DTY,CLN,TMA N then.Come to think of it,still a humble ATCO2 but working the vastly improved TC South(not)!:uhoh:

[Finbarr]

Just came upon this thread by chance and what a very pleasant 20 minutes I've had reading it and reminiscing!

Re 'Beatours' (Britsh Airtours) I had the misfortune to join the other 'Airtours' (from oop North) when they formed in 1991 and was sent (with others) to Long Beach to do our MD83 (what a dreadful a/c) conversion course, and, being the cheapskates they were (and I guess still are as MyTravel) sent us on a BA flight (economy class) to LAX.

Being an experienced staff traveller, I tried all the [then] usual tricks to get us (12 of us) an upgrade and had in the end to resort to the backstop (the purser) who upgraded us all to J class but only because he couldn't understand why his parent company (as he thought) had put aircrew of a sister company (British Airours) into cattle class. Most enjoyable - so whoever you were - thank you!

I Remember "norjet" and "albion" fondly - but who remembers "Northair" (that rogue Crabtree's MAN-Dounreay operation)? Ah - "I learnt about flying from that!"

[Ian Brooks]

God yes I remember the Northair Ops ex Manchester along with E Raffles
who used to commute between MAN and LHR daily in his Baron callsign
Raffles 1 if I remember correctly

Ian

[22/04]

So to add a few

Was BAC Hurn "llama"? or am I dreaming?

Doves used by HS were in additon to AREA at least G-ARBE and for a while Heron G-AVTU.

No menton of RAF Royal/VIP flights which used/use Rainbow and Kitty or something similar

Cout line had a short flirtation with flight numbers in 1970 ish; I distinctly remember Court line 373 in 1970 ( G-AWBL). but went back to reggies- any one know why.

And Airtours went Kestel, then Tourjet and back to Kestrel- again anyone know why?

And presumably some airlines just thought there names were unpronoucable. Invicta used India Mike for years and Aviogenex were Julite Juliet, TMA were Tango Lima

Incidently Aer Lingus Longhaul (I think they were called something like Irish international Airlines) always used "Shamrock" (remember those 720s at LHR on summer Saturdays) but Aer Lingus adopted it at some stage.

And am I really dreaming or does anyone remember Air Florida ( "Palm")

But I'm getting old.

[2 sheds]

22/04

BAC Hurn was "Limar" - I think that is the correct spelling - either way, pronounced Lye-mar.

2 s

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

And Airtours went Kestel, then Tourjet and back to Kestrel- again anyone know why?
I seem to recall the "Tourjet" was considered too similar to the callsign used by a Russian charter operator also flying to the med.

[Spiney Norman]

Olney 1 B....I remember being told exactly the same reason at the time, (Kestrel/Tourjet)...Currently there's an issue being raised regarding the new Brussels Airlines use of the callsign 'Beeline'. Some clashing issue with tug callsigns at Heathrow apparently....Posibly another change? Would be some sort of record considering the time the airline has existed!
Spiney

[WHBM]

Incidently Aer Lingus Longhaul (I think they were called something like Irish international Airlines) always used "Shamrock" (remember those 720s at LHR on summer Saturdays) but Aer Lingus adopted it at some stage.
Yes, all through the 707 era the transatlantic operations of the Irish main carrier were under a different name of "Irish International" (in Irish "Aerlinte Eireann"). Their IATA flight designator was IN, as opposed to EI for Aer Lingus. I don't know if they had a separate AOC but judging by the way Dublin-Shannon sectors had to be shown with EI/IN joint flight numbers I suspect there was some such legal distinction.

Regarding BEA Airtours, I accept what all you pros above write but I had always had the impression they used to use the callsign "Tango". Anyone know how this belief might have arisen ?

Aviogenex were Juliet Juliet, TMA were Tango Lima
Just based on their IATA flight designators. Several airlines chose to do this.

[sickBocks]

Thought the Kestrel/tourjet thing occurred as a result of the IEA ("Aspro") integration. Before the AOCs were merged some flights had the AIH designator - "Kestrel" and some had the TIH designator "Tourjet". This was early 90s.

[ATR42300]

From the distant past I seem to remember Handley Page used the callsign "Choc Ice" ..........pretty cool what?

[Numpo-Nigit]

"Regarding BEA Airtours, I accept what all you pros above write but I had always had the impression they used to use the callsign "Tango". Anyone know how this belief might have arisen ?"

I seem to recall that BEA Airtours referred to their flights as "Tango" for passenger use. I can certainly remember hearing departure announcements for Tango + numbers on the PA at Gatwick. I assume that somebody in marketing thought that it would give the SLF the impression of something more inviting than a ride in a hand-me-down 707 or Comet. For ATC use it was always "Beetours".

NN

[2 sheds]

BEA Airtours - radiotelephony callsign was "Beetours", ICAO AO designator was KT (before the introduction of 3-letter designators).

2 s

[DH106]

BIA - 'BritIsland'

Perhaps the memory's playing tricks - I had the impression BIA used the 'UK' flight prefix and "UK xxx" callsign in the era immediately before the merger with Air Anglia and others to form Air UK - Air UK then kept these ?

[Finbarr]

BIA's RT Callsign was indeed "Britisland" with UK as the airline designator. When Air UK was formed, UK was still the airline designator and the RT callsign was "Ukay".
When BIA was resurrected after Air UK's failed attempt at the charter market as a separate charter outfit with BAC 1-11s and later MD83s it also used "Britisland"
Re Kestrel - this was dreamed up by a founder member Tom Beck (it was either going to be Kestrel or Nomad) - I was never sure if it was because of his love of ornithology or the fact that he had a Riley Kestrel car! Never liked it myself - the Spanish thought it was "Castrol". We had a bit of a reprieve when we went longhaul and "Tourjet" came along, but, as someone has already said, we had to revert to Kestrel as some minor Russian freight outfit had a similar sounding callsign and they had it first!

[m5dnd]

Sorry for thread drift...

22/04

The other Dove used by HSA was G-ASMG based at Dunsfold.. Still flying in Australia!

M5DND

[78deg]

On the smaller side

Midas
Direct Flight
National Airways
Hubbadair
Iceni
Eastern

All in East Anglia

[magpienja]

I wonder, the guys working back and maybe still today did you prefer the callsign to be the a/c reg, or even maybe just the likes of say Cambrian whiskey foxtrot, as opposed to the long winded callsigns we have today.

Nick.

[Sir George Cayley]

A few distant memories

British Airtours prefix was KT and when Caledonian took over the new 3 letter was CKT to preserve the memory.

When Orion started up their prefix was the same as the tehn defunct Modern Air (ah Coronados!) so got called "Modern" by some of the older ATCO's for a while.

I also remember "Redwing" as a callsign used by BEA on charter flights - or is that false memory syndrome again.

For the military buff the USAF used to run shuttles to Mildenhall with callsigns like Green Express and Blue Canoe

Finally, CAFU when ILS checking were "Calibrator"

I'll take some more memory medicine this evening (it's distilled from grapes you know) and post anything the synapses retrieve.

Sir George Cayley

[Spitoon]

Back in the days when BEA used Beeline it always amused me that Aurigny Air Services used Ayline. Never knew if it was a case of beautifully executed one-upmanship....

[merlinxx]

We were (I was in at the start in late'69 for ops '70. We were Beatours Flt # designation was KiloTango. That is apart from when we were operating for SyrianAir, Air Sychelles, DETA Mozambique et al.

[Milvus Milvus]

The pushback tractors at LHR still use the callsign "Beeline xx" when towing empty A/C where xx is the reg.........
However, I'm sure i heard a European airline using it recently as well !

[22/04]

Calibrator is still used by the King Airs today

Can anyone remember the EMA based operator with Viscounts (some ex German, and it's callsign- nam is escpaping me at present?

[Spiney Norman]

Might you be thinking of Alidair? Sorry! Can't remember the callsign even though I've worked them a few times...Might even have been Alidair!

Spiney

[22/04]

Yes Alidair, and I think the callsign was "Alida"

[The AvgasDinosaur]

I think the Alidair call sign was pronounced our-leader ?
Dans had a good scheme at one time (E.G. using G-ARAY) Dan-Air 99AY was a positioning flight DAN-AIR 89AY was an engineering flight 79AY was a test flight 69AY was was a ferry flight ( Not sure how that differed from a positioning flight.)
I remember a Dan Comet last minute substitute for a sick 707 being given his clearance at Ringway to Kennedy and reading it back as clearance to Ildewild. When challenged he stated the aircraft knew where Ildewild was but would never be able to find Kennedy. Bit more relaxed in those days ( Ahhhh !!!!) When KLM changed to flight numbers the late night DC7CF from Amsterdam would often call KLM James Bond in place of KLM 007 and often as not would advise on the 24 localiser somewhere abeam Doggar Bank, and get his straight in approach approved.
I recall albion as being the call sign of BEA Scottish division rather than Northeast who I'm sure used BKS and then Northeast except the Tridents which used Norjet. Wasn't there a time when BOAC had a mixed fleet the Comets used "Jet Speedbird" as a call sign?
Apropos the Court Line Beverly, Hunting Clan used two early production/prototypes on civil registrations in the Middle East somewhere when they were almost brand shiny new. Anyone recall them visiting Hunting at Heathrow (or should I say LAP in this context?).
Great thread thanks to all contributors.
Some other call signs from the past
Eagle EG
Pelican DP
Tradewinds FF ?
Transmeridian KK
Scimitar ??
Anglo ??
Ace freighters used registrations don't know if they ever had a designator
Be lucky
David

[22/04]

Think there might have been a merger- FF was orignally IAS cargo -or have got it the worng way round.

[Rhys S. Negative]

Tradewinds FF ?
Transmeridian KK
Scimitar ??
Anglo ??

Think there might have been a merger- FF was orignally IAS cargo -or have got it the worng way round.

Found some of my old JP airline fleets books in the loft while retrieving the Christmas decorations:

FF = IAS Cargo, later British Cargo Airlines
Tradewinds = IK
Scimitar = JA
Anglo used ML and later EC, plus 3-letter code ANC.

HTH, Rhys.

[22/04]

And incidently, The Alida callsign came from Alida packaginig- either associated or owners of Alidair.

[Helen49]

I haven't read all the posts but have noted the recurring Norjet thread.

Norjet was certainly used for a short period by the Northeast Viscounts and Tridents. There was a good deal of 'mocking' the Viscount crews about their pretensions of grandeur and eventually, for whatever reason, the Norjet c/s was dropped by the Viscount fleet. It may also have been dropped by the Trident fleet at the same time, not sure about that!.

I think that 'Albion' superseded Norjet and I think the 'Albion' idea originated from the then Base Captain at LBA, Peter Owen.

H49

[hotelgulf]

many Thanks to WHBM................ for the Courtline Reg info. I was deadlined this evening on a drawing of Courtlines amazing BAC 1-11's. I googled my question and located this thread. A real help to complete my project.

I would like to attach the sketch...but sorry to say, cant find a FTP window...was it overlooked?

Best,
HG

[055166k]

Airline code was BX. Name derived from Roman word for mainland Britain...was also used by old "Cambrian".

[Liffy 1M]

Albion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Airline code was BX. Name derived from Roman word for mainland Britain...was also used by old "Cambrian".

It was BZ, as far as I can recall. BX was used by Spantax of Spain, which among other things was the last European operator of the Convair 990.

[Stenner153]

I remember seeing a BAC 111 of British Midland, flown by a Captain who was German, don't remember his name, turn on the ILS on 27 at Bristiol Lulsgate at 2.5 miles.

[Get me some traffic]

Captain Pop?

[ZOOKER]

Helmut Popp.

[qsyenroute]

Here is a memory:

At which airfield in any one day would you have heard the following callsigns?

Vickers One
Vickers Two
Vickers Three
Waterpark
Minair
Aztec

[Finbarr]

Barrow (Walney Island)?

[rog747]

was donaldson's call sign 'thistle'?

and bea airtours was beetours and sometimes tango (more so in the early days)

is BMI still 'midland' today?

air2000 was going to be starship (as in star trek) but became jetset

[ZOOKER]

EGPF-based Air Sinclair used 'CLAN-KING', which ATC pronounced 'CLANKING'.
I seem to remember an Islander with the c/s "CLANKING 105 PAPA.
Allegedly the company also operated a (relatively faster) Hawker-Siddley 748, which used the c/s 'CLAN-SPEED'. :}

[22/04]

Don't think Donadlson were ever thistle; remember them as Donaldson or Delta India something.

Don't rememberTango as a callsign only a way of annoucing flights at Gatwik to pax. Always Beatours.

BMI still use Midland.

[ZOOKER]

BEA Airtours had the 2 letter flight prefix KT, or Kilo-Tango. c/s was 'Beatours'.
Operated Comets and ex-BOAC 707-436s.
I think it became British Airtours after the merger, using 707s, 737s, L1011s and 747s. It still used KT, and Beatours, as far as I remember.

[Stenner153]

G-AXMI was pink.

[Skipness One Echo]

"Clanspeed" WW/SEU, was Scottish European, two HS748s out of GLA and EDI to FRA and BRU, rose from the ashes of Chieftain if I recall. Again, short lived alas.

"Tartan" was Highland Express, VY/TTN.

IATA codes now bmibaby and Vueling.

[Lon More]

Coincidentally we were chatting about this the other day.

Ace Freighters
Skyways which became Euravia which became Britannia
Derby Airways (or was it Derby Aviation?) which eventually became BMI - this was painted on the Flying Club hangar at Luton. No idea why though rumour had it Fred Pinchin had picked it up cheaply and moved it down to Luton

Loganair - I remember the Beech 18 doing the newspaper run round the Highlands and Islands

[Derwent Dale]

At BHX 89-91, TEA (UK) - TUK - c/s "TEA-STAR"

[cleo]

Ahh - GASUG :ok:
Lon - thanks for that. Mind you it does remind me that it wasn't yesterday!:(

[Lon More]

Mind you it does remind me that it wasn't yesterday

1970. He used to call inbound t Stornoway long before ATC opened. The Met Officer phoned ScATCC with a landing time and later with a dep.

Scottish Airlines - part of Scottish Aviation

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Avro_685_York_C.1_G-AMUM_Scottish_Als_LAP_06.53_edited-2.jpg/800px-Avro_685_York_C.1_G-AMUM_Scottish_Als_LAP_06.53_edited-2.jpg

Midland & Scottish Air Ferries operated the original air ambulance in 1933 with Jimmy Orrell flying a Rapide into Islay

[Helen49]

GASUG........used to be operated by BKS Air Survey and was, I think, replaced at BKS by an Anson!

[Minesthechevy]

My Dad flew Daks 748s and Viscounts out of Leeds for BKS - we lived in Yeadon, very close to the airport.

Opposite our close was a small scrapyard which my memory (possibly failing) tells me had on of the Ansons in it.

[Finbarr]

Can we get this right?

It wasn't Beetours it was Beatours (cf Bealine) where BEA were the initials of British European Airways. Simple really!

[autothrottle]

Chevy,

Your dad flew the budgie and viscount? superb. Hope you well sir.:ok:

a/t

[Skipness One Echo]

It wasn't Beetours it was Beatours (cf Bealine) where BEA were the initials of British European Airways. Simple really!

Did they ever change this to "Airtours" in the 1980s? I am mis-remembering if they didn't.

[beerdrinker]

Pre merger, BOAC - Speeed bird. BEA - Bealine.

Discussion about what callsign should be used post merger BA.

Ex BEA chaps wanted to retain Bealine. The inimitable Derek Ellis said in his northern drawl. "You can be bl00dy Bealine if you want, we will be Ayline."

Result - Speedbird became the BA callsign!!!

[tin canary]

When of course Ayline is the callsign for Aurigny Air Services of the Channel Islands since 1968.

I could be wrong, but I think it came from the fact that the airline was founded by Sir Derek Bailey in the island of Alderney - the french name being "Isle d' Aurigny", where all the car registrations begin AY followed by 1 to 4 numbers.

[BugSpeed]

I still think it was a sad day for UK and European R/T when "British" had to be relegated to the hangar in the sky.

Think it was BRAL's originally but was adopted by BACX and carried forward to BA Connect.

Always brought an amused smile to my face when contacting various Johnny Foreigner stations with it.

Apparently Speedbird still retain the rites to use British in the future (pure rumour: not sure who told me that one!)

[kcockayne]

"Albion" was used domestically as the call sign for British Airways UK flights after the merger with BOAC & the demise of Cambrian & BKS.

[kcockayne]

Ayline was used by Aurigny.

[Finbarr]

i thought 'Albion' (what a lovely word !) was only used by ex Cambrian, Northeast etc whilst mainline stuck to 'Bealine' or even 'Shuttle'.

[Jumbo Driver]

i thought 'Albion' (what a lovely word !) was only used by ex Cambrian, Northeast etc whilst mainline stuck to 'Bealine' or even 'Shuttle'.

I agree.

After the merger to BA in 1974, I recall that BEA were always "Bealine" or "Shuttle", while we in BOAC retained our treasured "Speedbird" callsign.

Latterly, of course, "Bealine" became relegated to ground equipment callsigns.

JD
:)

[Nogbad the Bad]

Going back to the MOD callsigns, I remember when I did a couple of months at Aberporth, "Blackbox H" was a Seaking operating out of Pershore.

Also the Llanbedr Devon (XA880, the silver one) callsigns matched the pilot. Gawd I wish I couyld remember names, as there was some really nice blokes used to fly them. Nugget 22 was one of them ? Eric Something ?

Hey ho, isn't age wonderful !!!! :ugh:

[ZOOKER]

Worked 'NUGGET 33' a couple of times EGUF to EGNO.
Remember spotting at EGNX in the early '70s and 'Tester 20' called up.
HS65 to and from EGXJ. Did a couple of ILS approaches.
Sadly, EGXJ and the HS65 are no longer with us. - A shame.

[ATNotts]

I recall from my spotting days at BHX that in fact, the regional divisions of BEA at the time (BEA Channel Islands and BEA Scottish) both used the IATA flight prefix BZ and the callsign Albion.

Viscounts were painted with "BEA Channel Isles" and "BEA Scottish" titles.

I can't actually remember Cambrian and Northeast divisions using Albion, probably because they didn't frequent BHX.

[Spitoon]

It wasn't Beetours it was Beatours (cf Bealine) where BEA were the initials of British European Airways. Simple really!I may be wrong - someone may have an antique copy of Doc 8585 and provide a definitive answer - but I seem to recall that the RTF phonetic callsign was BEELINE. More recently allocated to Brussels SN Airlines, I think.

[ZOOKER]

The RTF was pronounced 'BEELINE/BEETOURS'. The Airlines were BEA-British European Airways, and later, the charter division. British European Airways Airtours, (BEA Airtours), operating ex-BEA Comets and ex-BOAC B707-436's.
It may have been written as BEATOURS, but phontically was pronounced 'BEE-TOURS'.
This extended up to the time of the B737 accident at EGCC, and maybe beyond that event.

[Talkdownman]

Alzheimer's permits a few UF nuggets from 30 years ago: Comets, Andovers etc, Nugget 20 Tim Mason, Nugget 22 Pat Hobbs, BAC111 Nugget 23 Sqdn Ldr Shepherd, Devons Nugget 11 Fred Hambly, Nugget 14 Mr Denison, Hunter & 111 Nugget 38 the ubiquitous Mike Bagshaw of Human Factors, Fast jets Nugget 40 Terry Adcock, Rotary Nugget 37 Lt Rainey, everything Nugget 01 COEF Gp Capt David Scouller still on the FIE circuit, Nugget 02 OC Flying Rich Rhodes, Nugget 09 dear old Fred Stringer, Metman 62 Barney Lydiate in Dumbo the Herc, ah the list goes on, I need the nurse now. Oh, and Barbary 1 the Fleetlands Wessex...and there was Nugget 39 assigned to the USAF doc on exchange to IAM....the one that flew VFR Bedford DCT Farnborough at 5000'...

chevvron will fill in the gaps and correct me, he's good at callsigns...

[Nogbad the Bad]

I probably got mi' numbers wrong - not even sure if Llanbedr's callsign was Nugget, or something else ? I'll have to go and have a root around.

I'm near Seething, by the way *nudge nugdge*

:)

[DC10RealMan]

Freddy Stringer-What a lovely guy, he taught me to fly the Turbo Arrow at White Waltham.

I was also told that he had won the George Cross as a Farnborough scientist during World War II. I suspect that I know the event where he won it, but can anyone tell me the definitive answer (if true)

[Minesthechevy]

DC10RM - if no joy try asking the gents in this thread

http://www.pprune.org/flying-instructors-examiners/259873-freddie-stringer-rip.html

[Lon More]

Spantax of Spain, which among other things was the last European operator of the Convair 990.
One of which scared the crap out of me during my short stay at Gatwick NMU when it dropped a can during takeoff.

[obwan]

CV990 what a machine, in the VCR you could see the black smoke billowing from it on finals long before you could make out the aeroplane.:D

[Airbanda]

Only a spotter but I'm pretty sure the first jet airliner at LBA/EGNM was Aer Lingus BAC 1-11 208AL EI-ANE bringing Leeds United home from their European Fairs Cup victory in 1968.

BA Leeds flights callsign was NE/Northeast until around 1976 when Northeast/Cambrian/Scottish/Channel divisions combined. For a year or so the domestic flights were BE/'Bealine' with a leading 4 applied to the former NE flight numbers while the sole international sector to Dublin was BA/'Speedbird'.

Presumably this caused some c/s confusion on airways and by 77 Northeast returned as a c/s followed later by BZ flight numbers and he c/s Albion which lasted until BA mainline/regional withdrew from LBA c1978/9.

If plans announced on last few days proceed they'll return in October using minibuses to LHR.

[Mooncrest]

The subject of the Northeast/BA Regional Division callsigns has been a very active one on this thread. Whilst the airline Northeast is long since gone, I'd very much like to see it remembered as a "Heritage" paint job on an A319, in time for the relaunch of the LBA-LHR flights, along with a few Cambrian and BEA liveries as well. I've already alluded to this on another site.

[Minesthechevy]

Mooncrest, that would be a superb idea and I hope it happens.

[Sir George Cayley]

And British Westpoint :ok:

SGC

[Lon More]

If we're reviving old names; Bring back Danair.

Chug a lug.

[Finbarr]

Be great to see the odd BA aircraft painted in Northeast/Cambrian and other regional paint jobs.

[Skipness One Echo]

I believe the Trident being preserved by Save The Trident » Preservation of Trident 1C G-ARPO (http://www.savethetrident.org/) is slated to be painted as Northeast, a livery it never carried.

Sorry, purist....

[BobAgg]

The first E145 out of Edinburgh in the morning back in the day, possibly to Southampton, for British Regional was British One Tango Sierra, or BRT1TS as it appeared on the radar display!