ATC training Level within EU.

[CNTDSCT]

I am always amazed when flying to the UK of the competency and professionalism of ATC controllers.
Whichever the situation,WX,Emergencies in progress or just during a routine day, they always are at the TOP of their game.

I was wondering why such a high quality is only found in the UK(before anyone asks im NOT english:E ),and is only getting worse as one flies south..

My experience:

Top 1: UK
Top 2 : Netherlands and northern countries.
Top 3: germany
Then,
France is getting worse, Italy is a mess as usual and other countries outside EU...lets not talk about it:*

My question is : Does Eurocontrol have different level of training depending on the Country personnel being trained?
It cant only be because of individual success during training as i have so far NEVER had any complaints about the UK and Netherlands...wether other countries its a different story..

regards

[anotherthing]

you could be opening a whole can of worms there!!

Eurocontrol does not train all ATCOS in europe - there are a couple of places that train people 'off the street' in the UK, but you will more than likely have spoken to NATS units if you fly passenger jets, certainly in airways and possibly at airports (but I could be wrong if you are flying into a regional airport), Other countries do their own training as well.

However, as an ATCO in the UK, I will say behalf of all of us, "thanks for the compliment", long may you continue to receive a good service - that is, after all, why we are here.

For further info on NATS go to http://www.nats.co.uk

If you can get past the terrible 1970s colour scheme, it will tell you a bit about who does what in UK airspace.

[radarman]

CNTDSCT,
Thanks for your compliments. From your list I can only assume that the following are instrumental in a controller's abilities/attitudes:
1. Binge drinking, and a high proportion of beer in one's intake of alcohol, are beneficial to controlling abilities. Red wine is definitely 'out'.
2. Garlic has a deleterious effect and should be avoided by professional controllers.
3. Controlling standards are closely aligned to driving standards.
4. Stodgy, 'comfort food' with a high proportion of carbohydrates obviously helps one to concentrate on the radar.
I'm off down the pub now (Bianca's)

[eagleflyer]

...anyway! :O

What about the guys in Bruxelles? My sector is adjacent to them, those guys are great! If one of you reads this: HOW IN HEAVEN CAN YOU WORK THIS AIRSPACE???

[MancBoy]

If you are talking about controllers at Brussels not Maastricht then I'm sorry, Brussels ideas about using radar and separation are a bit strange to say the least!

[andrijander]

Hi,

as an spaniard working in eurocontrol -that is over the northwestern part of germany and over FL245 upwards even though there are controllers from ALL nationalities here and working also same levels over Benelux's airspace- maybe one should think as well if saying a country means also speaking of a group of nationals -which would be at least somewhat racist-. Just trying to show that not everybody in a group is the same. I'm sure there's also great controllers working in "France, Italy and other countries outside EU...lets not talk about it".

By the way there's a couple of italians in those brussels sectors in Maastricht and maybe is that abilitie to handle caos that makes it work for them...who knows.
A.

[Evox]

Hi there!

Well spoken Andrijander, Maastricht UAC imho shows, that ATC abilities don´t depend on nationality at all. Thumbs up to all you Spanish, Italien, British, French, Hungarian, Dutch, Bulgarian, Czech, Romanian, Swedish, Finnish, Belgian, Danish, Norwegian, Portuguese, Austrian, Swiss, French, Irish, Australien Turkish and of course German controllers around me. (List not complete, sequence don´t matter..) As a German I happen to work in the Maastricht Brussels sectors and must say i am enjoying the multinational environment every day again.<img>

@MancBoy: If you´re talking about Brussels ACC, they are nice guys to work with, very helpful and competent.. no problems there.. at least not from my point of view... <img>

I think it´s safe to say, that controllers abilities also largely depend on their training in the respective country. Same job, different approaches to it. Some better, some.... not!

@Adrijander: AI 30 rules! <img>

Thank you,

S.

[garp]

...anyway! :O

What about the guys in Bruxelles? My sector is adjacent to them, those guys are great! If one of you reads this: HOW IN HEAVEN CAN YOU WORK THIS AIRSPACE???
What airspace are you referring to?

[loubylou]

Awwwww it's nice to be appreciated :O

louby

[Lon More]

garp Probably the airspace West of NTM and North of DIK (sorry couldn't find any on-line charts) National boundaries have been ignored and a very complicated piece of upper airspace given 100% to the Maastricht Brussels Sectors.

Evox A.I. 1 ruled, Come back later when youvé validated on ALL sectors:} Remember, youth and enthusiasm are no substitute for age and knowledge.:)

[Evox]

Uuhhh.. you´ve been away for a long time now, Lon.. We´re now training AI 41 in the sim. But i do agree, 6.5 years of experience in ATC is nothing compared to your 30+.. :-) But then again, the average age in the ops room nowadays ist what.. 30?
In fact, now that John is gone, is there anybody still left from AI 1?

[Lon More]

Evox, that's why I said "ruled" . There's still a few of AI 1 around. Andy Barnby in the Ops Room; Patrice Behier and Lawrence Kelly in Brussels; Jim Creegan in Manchester. I think the rest are, like me, growing old disgracefully.

[MancBoy]

Jim Creegan, the most helpful guy in ATC..................................NOT!

[Lon More]

Jim Creegan, the most helpful guy in ATC..................................NOT

Let's just say Jim doesn't suffer fools gladly. :)
He was a very good controller though, and out of work a very nice bloke.We shared an apartment for several months during training.
He spent several months in a Belgian prison, charged as a Russian spy, because he refused to back down on , what was for him, a point of principle.

[MancBoy]

Why does that not surprise me.

I have heard many times that away from the radar he is a diamond but unfortunately I haven't had that pleasure.

[kontrolor]

CNTDSCT, we could list airliners or nationals by experience from the other side of mike...but we tend not to. because we are all there to serve you. so I think your list is unfair.

[Spitoon]

CNTDSCT, bit of a big can of worms!

I will make no comment about any ATC provided in any particular country or by controllers of any particular nationality. But I will point out that every airport ATC unit and en-route sector has many constraints that are not immediately obvious to crews of aircraft passing through - these constraints will often have an impact on the way in which ATC is done and can make some of the decisions made by controllers appear strange. The reasons for the constraints vary - anything from chunks of granite, to military activity, to poor procedure design (maybe done by people who don't know how to do the job themselves....but don't start me on that), to restrictive rules imposed by a regulator (see previous point). Of course, just like pilots, some controllers are natuarals at the job and do it effortlessly whilst others have to work at it a bit more - and consequently you'll see differences in the way individual controllers work.

But don't worry, all of this will change very soon - certainly in Europe. The European Commission, Eurocontrol and ICAO have introduced rules that mean that controller licences will be more standardised in future with a common training syllabus. The licence will be recognised across the whole region and holders will do ATC in exactly the same, impecable, way and pilots won't have anything to complain about.......

[radarman]

Spitoon,
Haven't we all got common EU driving licences? Does that mean you maintain the same impeccable standards as Greek drivers ......?

[Spitoon]

I guess sarcasm doesn't work in text ;)

[Gonzo]

ATC in exactly the same, impecable, way

Oooooh, that's deep. Layers upon layers of sarcasm! ;):E

[Spitoon]

Well, I guess I have been accused of laying it on thick in the past!