The going APS rates

[OCEAN WUN ZERO]

Hypothetically, taking into account that everyone has a choice in life what is considered the minimum package that needs to be offered by a unit that is short on Radar ATCO,s
:)

[Highland Director]

Last year weren't Liverpool offering around £51K?
Just a few weeks later, their recruitment advertisement was offering £55K.
In the meantime, Isle of Man (with lower taxation) advertised £60K+ and I understand they were disappointed with the response.:ooh:
The ATCO shortage is widespread and includes certain NATS units north of the border.
Taking all of the above into consideration, units really ought not to expect an experienced APS ATCO to uproot for less than £65K.
Supply and demand and all that......:)

[niknak]

Sorry HD me old mate, £65K? I don't think so...

The rates in the adverts mentioned were top of scale, non NATS you ccan expect a starting salary of around £44K for ADC/APC and APS, although obviously higher rates are achievable within a reasnably short timescale.

Within NATS it's slightly higher, but you don't get the choice of where to work and ineviatebly you'll be posted to a somewhere where the cost of living is higher than the starting salary.

Take it from someone who keeps a regular scan of these things...

[throw a dyce]

Nats won't pay £65K for APS controllers North of the Border.All twr/approach units there are Band2 and pay about £60K gross tops for a Tower and Approach Atco.You can get more for OJTI,LCE etc but that takes time.I don't know if they will start outsiders at the top of the scale unless you've got David Beckham's agent.
Might explain why they are short of controllers in certain spots.Also traffic is increasing greatly,and house prices as well.About time Nats reviewed the situation.Ha Ha:ugh:

[Highland Director]

Sorry HD me old mate, £65K? I don't think so...
The rates in the adverts mentioned were top of scale, non NATS you ccan expect a starting salary of around £44K for ADC/APC and APS, although obviously higher rates are achievable within a reasnably short timescale.
Within NATS it's slightly higher, but you don't get the choice of where to work and ineviatebly you'll be posted to a somewhere where the cost of living is higher than the starting salary.
Take it from someone who keeps a regular scan of these things...

That's right niknak, the figures quoted were top of the scale. Those are the figures that matter and those are the figures that anyone considering a move will look at.

It's possible of course that a handful of ATCOs might accept a starting salary of £44K. i.e. an ATCO who wants to work at a particular unit or (dare I say it) an ATCO with a bad history. :hmm:

Consider however, that in the UK ATCOs can earn £50K+ for ADI/APP and £60K+ for ADI/APP/APS. If a unit is very short of ATCOs and is serious about hoping to entice experienced candidates with a full bag of ratings and add-ons (OJTI/LCE etc), then a starting salary of £44K isn't going to do it. Some ATCOs might perhaps accept a very slight drop in salary during training, provided that completion brings a significant rise.

[airac]

[QUOTE=Highland Director;3064550]
If a unit is very short of ATCOs and is serious about hoping to entice experienced candidates with a full bag of ratings and add-ons (OJTI/LCE etc),


Problem is getting Management to accept that there is a shortage , and that the total package has to offer more than just money

[QUOTE=Highland Director;3064550]
that in the UK ATCOs can earn £50K+ for ADI/APP

Where are they paying that amount?

[Highland Director]

Where are they paying that amount?
Well take for example Sumburgh Airport which is Tower only - (the APS function is done by NATS from Aberdeen).

Basic salary £42,635.
Throw in the 12.5% shift pay and suddenly it becomes £47,964.
Met allowance? £1,070pa. That brings it to £49,034.

In addition....
Saturadys? - Time and a half.
Sundays? - Double time.
Public Holidays? - Triple time!

The ANSP in question are a company with an alarming ATCO shortage, so overtime rates could easily boost the take home figure!

[airac]

So as long as you like the dark for six months, and horizontal rain ,no trees you've cracked it.

I'll be up in three months :D OK

[Highland Director]

So as long as you like the dark for six months, and horizontal rain ,no trees you've cracked it.
I'll be up in three months :D OK
Not your cup of tea I take it? Nor mine. Each to their own I say.
However, I suspect that those who work on the dark and rain lashed isles might go home after a shift to their huge 5 bedroom 150 year old stone built houses - close the door on the howling wind outside - pour themselves a dram and have a proper good chortle at the thought of the poor sods who spend hours held up behind the rubberneckers on the M666 on the way to a manic session on radar - followed by another nightmare journey back to a 2 bed semi which has more than likely been burgled.
Horses for courses my friend. :)

[kraggy]

Sorry for being slightly off topic but what do these stand for and mean?

How many different types of Approach and Area Controllers do you have in Britain? I just know of Approach Radar and Approach Procedural...

Thanks

K.

[foghorn]

2 types of Approach ratings:
APS = Approach Surveillance (new Euro name for the old Approach Radar)
APP = Approach Procedural
Unlike ICAO, the UK has two different aerodrome ratings: ADV (Aerodrome Visual) and ADI (Aerodrome Instrument).
Some of the other three letter acronyms for ratings on here are either out-of-date or typos. I don't think folk here are even talking about area controllers, but they also split into Surveillance and Procedural like the Approach bods do. Hope this helps.

[Chilli Monster]

However, I suspect that those who work on the dark and rain lashed isles might go home after a shift to their huge 5 bedroom 150 year old stone built houses - close the door on the howling wind outside - pour themselves a dram and have a proper good chortle at the thought of the poor sods who spend hours held up behind the rubberneckers on the M666 on the way to a manic session on radar

Well, you've got to have some compensation for being unable to pass an APP course I suppose.

Having worked on the Shetlands in a previous life I'll stick to my radar sessions, 3 bedroom 300 year old stone cottage and civilisation (theatres, cinemas, restaurants etc) just down the road thank you very much.

[Highland Director]

Well, you've got to have some compensation for being unable to pass an APP course I suppose.
Ouch! That wasn't very nice. :*
Having worked on the Shetlands in a previous life I'll stick to my radar sessions, 3 bedroom 300 year old stone cottage and civilisation (theatres, cinemas, restaurants etc) just down the road thank you very much.
I don't blame you Chilli. As I said, it's horses for courses. Personally, I wouldn't want to go up there either.
I was only answering the question which was raised here which was: where in the UK could you expect a £50K salary without APS?
It received a bit of a sarcastic response which persuaded me to play devil's advocate.

[throw a dyce]

Nats is paying over £50K for tower onlys in the London area.Band 4 and 5 are well above that at the top of the scale.Getting in? Well...:uhoh:

[airac]

I was only answering the question which was raised here which was: where in the UK could you expect a £50K salary without APS?
It received a bit of a sarcastic response which persuaded me to play devil's advocate.[/QUOTE]

Who was being sarcastic ?