Instrucor Renewal seminar time again...

[Noisy Hooligan]

Hi all, can anyone suggest a GOOD organisation for FI renewal seminars please? Preferably one that does not cost 250 quid and take up 2 days of my already busy life in order for me to continue the priviledge of instructing for the next three years and probably not make the money back, especially after hiring an a/c for the renewal test and the examiner fees is added to the bill.
The last one I attended was not only expensive but also a complete waste of mans' time on earth.:cool:
APRUNE the floor is yours!

[sierracharlie]

I think you will find £250 is the going rate. AOPA offer a discount of £25 to their Instructor members.
Not many organisations offer the seminars. I can only think of AOPA (http://www.aopa.co.uk/newsfromaopa/fiseminsar.html) and On Track Aviation (http://www.ontrackaviation.com/fi-seminars.htm).

[Noisy Hooligan]

Thanks SC, I'll look into them both.

250 quid X 40 candidates is 10K, less a bit for the hire of an unconditioned room in the height of summer, some burnt coffee and a bit for wheeling in a couple of 'guest' speakers and its a nice little earner. I certainly did not feel as though I had just benefited from nearly 10Ks worth of training when chucking-out time came on day two. More like a pointless tick in the box in the bizzarre game of ass covering that the UK is so good at.

[unfazed]

The advice that I was given when I became an FI and which I have followed successfully is FORGET THE SEMINARS

Get with an Examiner and go fly a renewal checkride and prove that you have been working hard for the past 3 years. From my experience it is an excellent checkpoint to review how you are doing and to pick up some expertise and useful tips

:)

[the dean]

The advice that I was given when I became an FI and which I have followed successfully is FORGET THE SEMINARS

Get with an Examiner and go fly a renewal checkride and prove that you have been working hard for the past 3 years. From my experience it is an excellent checkpoint to review how you are doing and to pick up some expertise and useful tips

:)

agreed...

in any event in JAALAND it is necessary to renew by flight test every second time...so one way or another thats on the cards...and if not already there for you it may well be in the future..:eek:

but a flight review is a good idea to renew in any event.it helps to keep us all sharp.:D

the dean.

[Noisy Hooligan]

What if you have not flown enough hours for the 2 out of 3 option to renew by experience? It ends up being Test and seminar every time -tedious, time consuming and expensive. I have no probs with being tested every three years, especially as my last test was both enjoyable and informative.

[Noisy Hooligan]

What if you have not flown enough hours for the 2 out of 3 option to renew by experience? It ends up being Test and seminar every time -tedious, time consuming and expensive. I have no probs with being tested every three years, especially as my last test was both enjoyable and informative, but the seminars...

[P.Pilcher]

The seminar renewal of FI ratings is yet another example of JAA gone wrong.
In days of yore, instructor rating renewal was always by flight "test" every 25 months actually. In those days the now late Ron Campbell used to run seminars for the benefit of the flying instruction fraternity. These, often annual, events used to take place around the country to facilitate attendance by as many instructors, flying school operators and other interested parties as possible. They were also cheap and Ron was always a very interesting speaker. One year I remember my bunch asking him why instructors who were in current practice could not use seminar attendance to count as an instructor revalidation process. This is why I have put the word "test" in inverted commas above. He fully agreed, stating that the really "professional" instructors were the ones who took a day out of their schedule and thus a hit to their earnings to attend seminars like his to keep up to date.
Regrettably, Ron passed away before the JAR regulations were finalised, thus he was unable to continue to knock some sense into others who were trying like mad to meet the politicians' ridiculous time scales. Thus the excellent "one day" seminars that Ron used to run have become the totally time wasting two day day ones that the regulations now require.
I am sure that Ron has turned many times in his grave since the JAR regulations were finalised!

P.P.

[apruneuk]

Don't do it, Noisy Hooligan!

Can't you see, it's pointless for a reason? It's done to discourage you Long Haul types (sorry, "Charity Workers") from taking bread from the mouths of penniless full-time FIs. Hopefully by the time I have to attend a seminar they will last for a week and cost £2,000! I feel a pay rise coming on....

[Noisy Hooligan]

Would that not lead to a bit of a shortage of broad-ranging experienced flying instructors and to a higher percentage of flying instructors early in their careers still learning their trade (ablsolutely nothing wrong with that, we have all been there but the real skills in instructing are surely learnt over time)?

I am all in favour of getting paid for working on my days off whilst doing something that I love, it just doesn't happen.

Good luck with the pay negotiations...Let me know when you are ready to buy my Aston option - I may need to sell it after my renewal this year which is likely to cost me 600 quid in total if your negotiations don't do well!
NH

[the dean]

What if you have not flown enough hours for the 2 out of 3 option to renew by experience? It ends up being Test and seminar every time -tedious, time consuming and expensive. I have no probs with being tested every three years, especially as my last test was both enjoyable and informative, but the seminars...


i agree...

never quite understood the logic of it...

can understand either a flight review or the seminar and hours...but thems the breaks...:* :oh:

the dean.

[unfazed]

The Dean and Noisy Hooligan

Why have you not got the required minimum instructional hours ?

Guessing you have "moved on" to airline or corporate aviation ?

Can't you keep your hands in a bit more freqiently ?

[Noisy Hooligan]

Unfazed, the reason for not having many hours over the three years is because I instruct on Tiger Moths, many sorties of which are only 20 mins, also the season for Tiger flying is short and yes it not my full-time profession anymore.
Much more than 20 mins leaves you deaf and walking a little funnier than usual...

NH.

[unfazed]

Aha now I understand !

But what a fantastic way to to go deaf and lopsided

I envy you in midsummer :)

[machonepointone]

Folks,

I have never done a seminar as I have always had to revalidate by doing a flight test plus experience (company policy), so I am not in a position to comment on the usefulness or otherwise of seminars other than as a means of maintaining your instructor ticket. What was not mentioned in the previous correspondence is that the option of revalidating by test and experience is only an option if the rating has not lapsed. A renewal (lapsed rating) can only be done by test and seminar.

I imagine that there is probably not a great deal of difference financially between flight test and seminar by the time you add in the cost of transportation to/from the venue of the seminar plus the cost of accommodation, so my advice would be to always revalidate with a flight test instead of seminar if at all possible (subject to experience of course).

M1.1

[Talkdownman]

I need to do the Seminar and Flight test. Should I do them in any particular order?
And can anybody recommend a tame examiner in the Blackbushe neck of the woods, please?