Integrated CRM

[camprax]

Anybody ever taught CRM recurrent to cockpit and cabin crew in the same session.Doing my first one but a bit wary of being too pilot oriented in the class and not intentionally but ignoring CC....any comments!suggestions?
regards

[Tigs2]

Camprax
I have been involved in these courses and they are very rewarding. The only subject i find that is really pilot orientated is SA. The rest can appeal to all professions. What will the mix of crew be? What is the majority culture of the crews? I note you are in the Carib. Is this where you will deliver and is it a first for you or the company (or both?). There are some good case studies out there that involve both sets of crew. Make sure that in discussion groups you get a good mix of Pilots/Cabin Crew.

[camprax]

Second time delivering and yes here in the caribbean.I was thinking of the airtransat glider where the cabin crew had alot to do with the evacuation and preparation of pax.I think it is going to be about 75/25 pilots/cc..yes you are right the sa will be more pilot oriented.
thanks
camprax

[Skunkie]

Of course I find it very important.....Cabin Crew learn lot of things comparing their job with Pilots and viceversa.....I (as cabin crew) attended integrated CRM in 1998 and results has been very positive reported in the attitude of all crew members during the flights.
Pilots too come to know some aspects of Cabin Crew's job, that before could be taken for granted :ok:


Skunkie

[flyblue]

camprax,
don't you have any CC CRM Instructor in your airline? Because my comment/suggestion would be to involve one of them too in the presentation of the course.

[Skunkie]

Hello Flyblu,
I was starting seminaries, soon after I became instuctor, but then the company went to bankrupt...:ouch:

It is quite difficult to start in a new company, old dinasaurs don' t want to move :hmm: and I would like to do it also free of salary, as I used to do in my previous airline (from easy things as to translate and act incident/accident due to poor CRM, to power point presentation to illustrate "shell theory", to instruct "diplomatically" on board whit my cabin crew, pushig them to ask, explain even to the Captain, if it was needed).

Unluckily, in the place I live, CRM is not so much considered -even betwen pilots- and cockpit/cabin crew sessions are something considered useless and a waste of time......
Some people cannot see beyond his own nose! :ugh:

Even if flying is my favourite job...well, I'm gonna search in other structures (hopitals, nurses, firefighter and go on...)
The fact is that now companies avoid corporate adviser (they cost too much).

Finally, unluckily people don't give the right importance to communication, the hierarchy is still dominant, expecially now, with reinforced doors and marshalls on lot of flights!

Think that with JAA it is mandatory for ALL aircraft crews, but the reality -expecially with the boom of low cost companies- is quite different.
Here I go off topic, but it sems that this is happening also with security searches, contols during the flight, lack of briefing/debreifing, all to try to take-off on time (:mad: ) and save the most fuel possible!

I know many pilots allover the world, and someone don't even know what CRM/HF means!!!!!!

The first aircraft I flew, was an ATR42, so my is an old school ;) but I remember that they encouraged crew communication, also because cabin crew jump seat is in the tail, then there are passengers, the cargo and finally the cockpit....they taught us how to deal even with rotors, following refuelling (not with pax on board :E ) in order to be able to take the command in the event of an emergency to order an evacuation, in case both pilots were not fit to do it.

I noticed that during basic courses to become cabin crew (I know 'cos I made lot of interviews, being one of the grandmas of the company....they simply bypass it, waiting up to two years, to mention CRM in a single morning session....: no one can understand the REAL meaning of team-work without at least some basic notions of CRM...they simply manage theirselves as single ones!

In my father's era (747Captain from1962 to 2000) CRM lasted 6 days, no contacts with outside, no wives to see them...long and hard, but it did work!!! They learnt how to deal in aircraft, as much as in private relations.
Hope, really, things will change....and I wouldn't like too hear about a plane falling down for lack of communication! :suspect:

[Skunkie]

by the way, in my last company, there was an instructor, very good, with all the skills to explain CRM...I was only a support, expecially in the office -preparing the lessons....I still wasn't certified as instructor ;) that came later and because of the conditions of the company, a lot of cuts have been nade, from training to not being paid for 1 year!!! :mad: not to mention safety divulgation among the crew....

[flufdriver]

We've been doing CRM with F/D & CC combined for many years now, it is usually part of the emergency re-current which is also combined and even includes dispatchers.

It is always difficult to find group exersizes that involve both sides of the F/D door to an equal extent, certainly most accidents that are on video mostly highlight mistakes in the cockpit.

I've actually been thinking about creating a Scenario to be worked like a play, sort of like a loft program, all worked by one full crew plus dispatch. It would have to be well thought out and include variables depending on the decisions that are made as the scenario progresses. One crew would act-out/ work the problem situation while the other crews in the same class would watch and make notes fos subsequent review.

I'm not sure that I'll have enough time to actually put something like this together, but I would like to, because the scenarios that I have come across so far, always seem a bit one sided.

[flyblue]

It is always difficult to find group exersizes that involve both sides of the F/D door to an equal extent, certainly most accidents that are on video mostly highlight mistakes in the cockpit.

flufdriver,
our Experts, that make the courses, make our own videos about incidents that happened in the company involving a whole crew. It's not as complicated as it seems: it is mostly interviews highlighting the HF-CRM parts of the incident, that will be analyzed with the help of the Instructor.

It also helps to simulate a mission together (CC+ F/D) in a cabin/cockpit simulator (like in a F/D simulator, with something non-normal happening and the whole crew involved).

[Aurigny CAPTAIN]

hello dear colleagues,
I would like to be a CRM teacher in my company (I reckon to have a very good life and airline experience). Could you explain me how is the CAA course like ?

thank you beforehand.

So long !

[Tigs2]

Aurigny CAPTAIN

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