Best for very gusty approachs- Airbus!

[A319-100]

There have been some very strong winds lately which have made for some interesting approaches. Just wondering what different SOP's say with regard to the above. I can think of 3 scenarios:

1 Autothrust/managed speed
2 Autothrust/Selected speed
3 Manual thrust/Selected speed

Also to continue the flap full/flap 3 debate which would be best to use with any of the above?

The reason I ask is because sometimes with managed speed/ autothrust you get very close to the flap overspeed Limitation. Also the autothrust seems to be struggling-never actually getting to its new managed target.

I know that there are protections(managed target not going into the limiting range) built in to prevent this but it doesnt look like it will sometimes!

I know it is impossible to get a definitive answer on this but I am just interested to see how other people deal with this.

Thanks in advance for anyone who takes the time to reply.:)

Regards

A319

[Carnage Matey!]

After working at a base where we spent many months flying this type to a runway that seemed to have permanent gusty crosswinds the general concensus was that manual thrust did a far better job the autothrust and selected speed was definitely better down to 1000ft or you ended up with a 160kt GS mini target for a 119kt Vapp. Below 1000 we tended to go back to managed speed provided it was sensible, otherwise we stayed in selected. Flap full is much easier for landing in these conditions and as Flap 3 makes the aircraft much twitchier in roll (even if Airbus deny this) and it also promotes the tendency to float, which you really don't want when its 20kts across.

This is now all academic in my airline where the head sheds decided if they couldn't fly the aircraft better than the autothrust then nobody could so banend manual thrust.:(

[Sean Dell]

Don't forget Carnage that there is no requirement to keep the ATHR engaged if you feel that it isn't performing to your satisfaction ;)

Also I believe, ahem, that the disengagement of the ATHR is not a SESMA event.

I know what I would rather do.

ATB

[wmc]

My theory flying the bigger Airbuses is;
Stay with the automatics "When the automatics can't do it, it's time to Go around"

[A-3TWENTY]

I`ve been flying to LPMA for some time and I`ve been trying all the possibilities.
The best one in my opinion is to keep the auto thrust and managed speed , but sometimes when you need a quicker response from the engines ,push the levers ahead, to the space between CL and MCT and bring them back to CL.
Remember that if you do that below 100FT the A/THR will disconect and when you reach CL detent ,CL power will come on .
:ok:

[EGGW]

My best advice after 11 years on the minibus, is use A/THR and managed speed, its what Airbus recommend, and push the levers out of the cl detent if you get a sudden drop in speed, like the gent above mentioned.
Use selected speed when you get near the flap limit speed, if the mini gs is bonkers, but ALWAYS use managed below 1000 aal. GS mini protects your energy.
Use flap 3 in gusty conditions, the FCOM says so and in my experience works much better.
The aircraft was NOT designed for manual thrust, but it can be used in my opinion when its not gusty, or in limiting conditions.

EGGW

[mcdhu]

I may be entirely wrong about this, but I seem to remember some years ago (4 or 5 maybe) that the autothrust logic was modified to take out the business referred to by A-3TWENTY above whereby if you poked the TLs above the climb gate below 100RA you got Clb Thr when you pulled them back to the CLB gate. I haven't time to research deeply right now, but a quick scratch around FCOM 1, Auto Flight , Autothrust makes no mention of it, but that doesn't mean I'm right!

Does my memory deceive me?
Cheers all,
mcdhu

[A-3TWENTY]

And I forgot to say that the use of flaps 3 is highly advisable.


MSDHU ,

I have my manuals revised till REV 31 . Check 1.22.30 P 62


Cheers

[757manipulator]

Makes me happy just reading all this Airbus moaning/envy:} , the last 3 weeks of gusty windy conditions have been pure joy in the basic boeing ;)

[sunnysmith]

Hello,

I've been on the Airbus for 6 or so years now, personally I find that manual thrust is better but we can't do that anymore in our company! Saying that if we don't like what the A/Thr is doing we DO disconnect it - however that's quite rare I have to admit!

As for the flaps, well again in my experience flap 3 is rubbish. If it is really windy flap full allows for a much more stable approach. With flap 3 the datum power settings can be just too low causing the A/Thr to 'hunt' more than usual. I find that this can lead to PIO caused by the small but rapid changes in the pitch power couple (I know Airbus say there isn't one but the auto-trim just isn't quick enough!)

As for GS-mini, if it is silly I just use selected speed, even below 1000ft. However if I do that below 1000ft I personally add a few knots to the target.

What I find is that everything in the manuals tend to be airbus 'recommendations'; bascially it all comes down to personal preferences!!!!


(My very first posting!) :)

[A319-100]

Thanks for all the replies!

It seems that it is very much down to personal preference. I was kind of hoping for something to hang my hat on but I will just have to work out the best method for me. There seems to be complete contradictions as to what people prefer and trust.

Just as a side note if you were using Selected speed and something went wrong, not sure what, would your company question why you werent using managed speed as this is what it was designed for?

Regards

A319:ok:

[Scottie]

Why not fly it the way your company wants it flown? The Airbus FCTM we have recommends autothrust engaged in windy/turbulent weather.

If it all goes wrong you have something to fall back on! We're not there to fly it the way we want, just the way the employer wants it flown!

[vikena]

1) Stabilise early

if managed speed target is much above 160kts select speed , just to stay away from vmo in case a sudden increasing head component and hence increased mged speed target led to an overspeed. manage it later when you calculate it to be about 160 ( you need a bit of capacity for that but stablising early will give you a bit of time)

2) use f3 even when w/s not reported on atis but you suspect it to be a rocky approach

3) my experience has been a/thr on with rolls royce and a/thr off with cfm

the fadec should mean that the engine type is irrelevant . nevertheless it's still my observation and practice.

[sunnysmith]

Scottie,

I know where you are coming from, but as you say the manuals 'recommend' which IMHO is there to give the pilot choice as to what to do. Equally, if something did happen when you followed the 'recommendation' they'll only ask you why you didn't do the opposite!!!

We are pilots after all!!

Just my opinion tho!

[Scottie]

Not sure I quite agree with you Sunnysmmith!

[Bearcat]

we fly in crap weather all the time and I use Flap 3.....A/THR off. Flap 3 is mandatory on a 321 in w/shear condts and recommended on 320's. For me using Flap3 protects you from bursting flap speeds on G/As.....much wider margain. Agree with previous poster selected till 1000ft agl...press managed....if its still up at 180kts forget it....selected and plus 15. Recently the wx was so bad....gusts 65kts and 100kts at 1500ft manged speed was past the flap limitation speed.

From my experience give me a Boeing anyday from 500ft to the deck and an Airbus on the rwy. Roll control far better on the boeings as you can attack the gusts where as the auto brake system on the 320s is mighty.:ok: