BANGKOK SUVARNABHUMI [Archive]

Wiley

22nd Dec 2006, 05:53

Firstly, let me re-state that this IS a rumour site, so I don't know whether this can be confirmned. However, having said that, a Thai acquaintance told me that many of the problems associated with the new BKK airport stem from the recently departed Prime Minister of Thailand and the allegations of corruption that lead to his political demise.

She said the word is that all contracts went to 'mates' and the said 'mates' supplied the lowest quality matrial and work they could possibly get away with, to the point where most Thais are terriby embarrassed by the end product, given that it is so highly visible to all visitors to the country.

The whole terminal has an unfinished look and feel to it. Signs giving directions are almost non-existent, and what ones are there are confusing for someone used to airports - God only knows how inexperienced travellers cope with them. The floors remind me of PSP - perforated steel plating - the old temporary runway material used for throwing down a quickie temporary runway back in WW2 days. They actually move underfoot when there're just a few people on them - I'd hate to think what they're like with a 747 load of pax walking over them.

And is it only me who thinks it more than a little strange they've gone for the "twilight" look inside the terminal? It's so gloomy in the departure lounges, it's impossible to read a book. I find myself wondering if they've done that so the bare (or no) ceilings and general lack of finish won't be so obvious, or whether it's because the wiring can't handle the extra candle power required to provide adequate lighting? (It might be even simpler - maybe there aren't enough light fittings!)

callout

22nd Dec 2006, 06:14

I must agree on all items posted above. I travel through BKK many times and had worked with many employees at the airport. They are saying the same thing what is posted above. Whoever approved a glass structure in the tropics should loose their job or at least are made to walk from domestic to an internation gate each day they are employed. The glass is always dirty and always seems a mess. It is also extremely hot and the higher you go the hotter is gets. Restraurants are few and the ones that are there are expensive. The only airport that I think is worse is Heathrow, but that has an excuse. It's old.

Dick Deadeye

22nd Dec 2006, 06:27

A disaster area.

Windows growing mould, taxiways subsiding, tarmac so soft that large amounts of power requires to taxi, building too hot, no signs, no announcements, few baggage counters.

Someone, somewhere has no doubt made a lot of money out of this disaster area, but the airport users are left to suffer the consequences.

Heads should roll, for what should have been a showpiece facility is a rapidly becoming a national embarrassment.

ZFT

22nd Dec 2006, 07:18

Wiley & Callout summed it up well. Having used Suvarnabhumi virtually weekly I’ve watched the place literally fall apart.

The revolving glass entrance doors are nearly all unserviceable and the outside walkways from the roads are filthy. It already looks like an old airport as opposed to a new one.

It certainly is an embarrassment. These pics were taken today. 1st is Level 1 and 2nd is Level 2 (arrivals).

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/ZFT/DSC00029-1.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/ZFT/DSC00030.jpg

Phil Space

22nd Dec 2006, 11:11

Let us not mince words here. Deposed PM Thaksin (outed in a recent coup) tried to open this wreck of an airport a year ago to save face(very important in Asia).

I sat a few days ago in a departure area watching Thai gardeners sleeping on the grass while a few tried to rectify sprinklers that had not worked for months hence the dead turf.

If you can't get the gardens right what hope is there for the rest?

Dump trucks are still emptying landfill with dust clouds as 747's slide an approach to this 3rd world airport.

The late XV105

22nd Dec 2006, 23:09

And to think that having missed the opening of Suvarnabhumi by a few weeks and thus flown in to and out of Don Muang, I was mildly disappointed!

As an aside, I flew out of Don Muang with BA a couple of nights after the "foiled liquid bombs plot". Having reassured myself that the a/c, ex-Oz, would have left LHR outbound prior to the grounding of flights and thus be on time (it was) I still expected security related check-in mayhem. Whether it actually improved security I know not, but I must say that the coordinated army of security personnel thrown at the extra x-raying and searching made pre-check-in a complete breeze.

When it came to check-in itself, I travel worldwide frequently to conduct my work, and the Thai lady who handled me in was the most pleasant, efficient, and fastest, by some margin to date for any long haul, "with hold baggage", flight. No smarm, no false smiles, just genuine, excellent, professional, friendly service.

Al Fakhem

23rd Dec 2006, 03:55

Mrs Al Fakhem is Thai and a political analyst. The problems at Suvarnabhumi are simply symptomatic for the entire Thaksin era, where cronies could get away with anything as long as they supported Thaksin in his quest for limitless power. One has to see the wider picture. His goal was the time after the present King Bhumipol, who is ailing. Thaksin had loaned Prince Vajiralongkorn, the heir to the throne, massive amounts of money (the Thai royal family is not as rich as people might believe) and then "purchased" a palace from him at a throwaway price. The obvious conclusion that the Thai public (and King Bhumipok, who is 80) were drawing is that Thaksin was getting a hold over the Crown Prince to the extent that the latter could no longer be seen as a moral authority (as his father, the current King, is) or - even worse - that the Crown Prince might not even accept the throne and Thailand would adopt a presidential system, such as the US, with Thaksin at the helm. The Suvarnabhumi project was simply a stepping stone for Thaksin to consolidate his power base - something that went very wrong.

Xeque

23rd Dec 2006, 04:22

XV105 is spot on!
I actually miss Don Muang. I've been passing through there 2 -3 times year for the past 30 years. It had good restaurants, access was reasonable via the overhead expressway (provided you timed it right) and the plane spotters area is one of the best places to pass an hour or so if your flight is delayed. MK actually combined both which was brilliant.
As to Thaksin and the graft - starting with Thaksin, all those who took kickbacks (and they are surely identifyable) should be publically identified, their photographs, names and addresses published, their assets frozen and confiscated and the funds thus raised used to repair the damage that they have caused through their greed and corruption.
Now. What's the chance of that actually happening?

Phil Space

24th Dec 2006, 23:04

Looks like Don Muang will be back in use shortly.

This from todays Bangkok Post

New airport faces partial shutdown
Mistakes, graft found in almost all contracts

Poor construction at Suvarnabhumi may force parts of the new airport to be shut down for repairs. This would open the way for the recently abandoned Don Muang airport to be re-opened to serve Bangkok's air traffic needs.
Deputy Transport Minister Sansern Wongcha-um said yesterday that following a recent report on the problems facing Suvarnabhumi airport, it was likely that part of the new facility would have to be closed and Don Muang airport would pick up the slack.
Some people had suggested the airport, open less than three months, be completely closed for a revamp, with flights being redirected to Don Muang until the improvements are completed, Mr Sansern said. He was opposed to that. Trying to move everything back to Don Muang would cause chaos.

The Council for Democratic Reform _ now the Council for National Security _ asked about the readiness of Suvarnabhumi airport just after the Sept 19 coup, but executives of the Airports of Thailand (AoT) had insisted the airport was ready for the scheduled Sept 28 opening.
Opening the airport before it was completed had inevitably led to problems. If the opening had been delayed to allow work to be finished properly, the airport would have started on a more solid footing.
The new AoT board appointed after the coup has discovered physical and managerial problems at Suvarnabhumi airport.
Board member Yodyiam Theptranont, who heads a sub-panel investigating the problems, said the repairs would take a long time. He could not give a timeframe.
Mr Yodyiam's report to the AoT board outlined a lengthy list of complaints and deficiencies, along with a list of recommendations on fixing the problems.
The report attributed the faults to substandard construction, poor management and manipulation of designs and materials.
The report said the airport's information technology facilities were incomplete and the upper floors of the car park building have no drains, causing rain water to flow into elevator shafts.
Over 1,000 lamps had already burned out and not been replaced.
Mr Yodyiam said AoT lacked an official with direct responsibility for the airport's construction, which had posed an obstacle in getting swift repairs.
Another AoT board member, Tortrakul Yomnak, said many areas need repairs and a partial closure was likely.
Chaisak Angsuwan, director-general of the Civil Aviation Department, said that due to the persistent problems, the department could not issue a permanent licence for Suvarnabhumi airport.
It would, however, extend an interim aerodrome certificate for the airport for another six months in January, he said.
Mr Chaisak said the airport needed to meet all physical and operational requirements before it could be given a permanent certificate.
There were many cracks in the airport's taxiways, some serious and some not, and repairs would be time-consuming, he said. Many operations staff also have no expertise in using their equipment.
Adm Bannawit Kengrian, chairman of the National Legislative Assembly's committee on Suvarnabhumi airport, said his panel had discovered mistakes and irregularities in almost all the airport's contracts. Names of those believed responsible would be announced in two weeks.
Specifications in some contracts had been distorted, he said.
Salaries paid executives of the Novotel Suvarnabhumi Airport Hotel were unusually high. Despite its claimed five-star status, the hotel had plywood doors.
An inexperienced contractor operated transformers that supply power to visiting aircraft and six transformers had burnt out. The cost of digging ditches around the airport was inflated to three billion baht and hiring security guards to five billion baht.
Any contracts where corruption was found would be scrapped, he said

jumpdrive

31st Dec 2006, 20:47

stop whininG & bitching around..................the airport its ok
same or worst problems hapen evrywhere, AMS , DEL, you name it
i was in taipei, JFK, Maimi, & PHI airports last week, & their thin can´s, the worst being T4 in JFK, which is suposed to be new, ,,,,,,damn its suck´s!!!, no space between conveyor belt to pick up your bags, within arriving flights, what a mess
not to mention the time wasting , getting naked , stupid question of security @ any aiport in USA...................%&$"$·"$·"(/&%, plus the very unfriendly customs people that receive you when you enter! onle there you are treated like that..............no other place in the planet, they are freaks when it comes to the so called security!
but coming back to the airpot.................its OK
i get in & and out of there faster, always find a taxi
stop screaming like ladies, & enjoy the thing................Jeez!!!

Phil Space

1st Jan 2007, 01:02

jumpdrive

You certainly have a way with words jumpdrive:D
I did not realise "getting naked " was part of the check-in procedure across the USA these days:rolleyes:

jumpdrive

1st Jan 2007, 01:13

well pal,.....its one of the few country(s) if not the only 1, in which U have to take out shoe,belt,jacket,hat, & ok, if it makes U happy..........well then "almost" get naked in front of evryone
not to mention the procedure now with liquids, gels or medicines, to take out & put on a plastic bag ha ha ha so funny, looks like a bargain sunday market , hearing the customs guys screaming it out loud , ha ha ha ha

Pom Pax

11th Jan 2007, 20:28

Today's Bangkok Post reports agreement to reopen Don Muang for domestic traffic possibly as early as 15 March.

ZFT

12th Jan 2007, 01:42

The Bangkok Post report:-
AoT backs rebirth of Don Muang
Old airport to service some domestic routes
AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK
The board of Airports of Thailand Plc yesterday approved the use of Don Muang for domestic flights with no international connections and set March 15 as the possible date for the relaunch of services at the old airport.

In an attempt to save costs from expanding Suvarnabhumi airport and to fully use its existing infrastructure, the board led by chairman Gen Saprang Kalayanamitr decided to move to Don Muang domestic flights with no connections to international routes operated by Thai Airways International (THAI) and no-frills carriers. Domestic flights with passengers connecting with international routes will remain at Suvarnabhumi.

It targeted March 15 for the resumption of regular services for Don Muang, which was closed on Sept 28, when the country's main airport moved to Suvarnabhumi.

The March 15 date was set to allow sufficient time to prepare for an expected surge in air travel to the provinces during the Songkran holiday.
Sources in the Airports of Thailand (AoT) board said its president Chotisak Asapaviriya told the meeting that the March 15 move was possible. However, he told reporters afterwards that he could not guarantee complete success.
The decision was based on a study by AoT to compare the advantages and disadvantages of expanding Suvarnabhumi against relocating domestic services to Don Muang.

The use of Don Muang to ease air traffic at Suvarnabhumi would give officials more flexibility to fix a number of problems at the new airport, sources said.
Mr Chotisak said the board has directed AoT to work on the details of the use of Don Muang and forward them to the Transport Ministry _ which oversees the airport agency _ within two weeks. After that the ministry, which has already made clear its preference for Don Muang, needs cabinet approval for the plan.

Based on the current volume of passengers, Suvarnabhumi will serve 42 million passengers a year, just three million shy of its full capacity.
Don Muang accommodated almost 39 million passengers a year before it was closed to regular flights. It currently services only chartered and special flights.

Moving domestic flights with no connections to Don Muang will defer plans to expand the new airport, including the need to build a new terminal to service only local flights in the future.

The move will boost revenues at Don Muang, which currently earns only 500,000 baht a month from the chartered and special flights.
Don Muang director Pinit Saraithong said the airport was ready for the return to services because none of the facilities, including ground and safety equipment, had been moved to Suvarnabhumi.

However, he said the airport needed about 45 days to prepare for the return of regular passengers and to hire more security staff. With existing facilities, Don Muang could serve up to 15 million passengers a year for a decade, he added.

Airlines with domestic services _THAI, Nok Air, Thai AirAsia and One-Two-Go _ supported yesterday's decision.

Bangkok Airways could not be reached for comment.

THAI president Apinan Sumanaseni said the national flag carrier needed one month to move some equipment and hire more staff to be stationed at Don Muang but he said it was not a serious problem for the airline.
Mr Apinan said flights serving popular destinations among international passengers such as Phuket, Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai and Hat Yai could remain at Suvarnabhumi.

Nok Air CEO Patee Sarasin praised the decision, which could save AoT at least 1.4 billion baht from constructing a new domestic building at Suvarnabhumi.

One-Two-Go chief executive and founder Udom Tantiprasongchai also hailed the decision, saying it was a ''good decision'' to shift domestic routes to Don Muang.

But Thai AirAsia CEO Tassapon Bijleveld said the move to Don Muang should be on a voluntary basis. He admitted that the move would affect Thai AirAsia, which needed to rotate its fleets between international and domestic flights.

Phil Space

20th Jan 2007, 00:42

More problems at Suvarnabhumi with further taxiway damage by underground water. It appears there are also concerns of runway subsidance in the future.
The airport is built on a reclaimed swamp!

From the Bangkok Post
More woes at troubled new airport
Runway subsidence claims, probe ordered
Transport Minister Theera Haocharoen has ordered an investigation into a report of land subsidence and cracks on a runway at Suvarnabhumi airport. But the airport's director Somchai Sawasdeepol denied there was any subsidence in the runway now in use although he agreed experts must find the cause of problems on taxiways. Adm Theera said he ordered agencies to conduct an investigation immediately after receiving the report.
According to sources at the Transport Ministry and Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT), AoT board member Tortrakul Yomnak reported slight subsidence on a runway at Suvarnabhumi during a meeting yesterday on the re-use of Don Muang airport.
Adm Theera and his deputy, Sansern Wongcha-um, immediately met with Mr Tortrakul and Yodyiem Theptharanont, another AoT board member, to discuss what they saw as a serious problem.
The sources quoted Mr Tortrakul as saying the subsidence had been spotted at the ''takeoff'' area. He advised closure of the runway for repairs but warned that the problem may recur.
Mr Sansern confirmed that Mr Tortrakul had made the clarification. Mr Sansern said this concerned the area where airplanes waited before taking off, and said he would inspect the runway himself next week.
According to an AoT source, cracks were found at the takeoff area of the western runway. As an immediate solution, pilots were advised to shift their takeoff area. The western runway would be closed for repairs and the eastern runway would be used instead, the source said.
A contractor who asked not to be named said excessive underground water which had caused taxiways to swell up and crack could also pose problems to the runways at Suvarnabhumi airport.
A runway with soaked foundations could gradually subside due to the heavy weight of landing flights.
During the floods last year, contractors warned AoT of possible problems with the runway, the source said.Contractors sought permission to pump excessive water out of the airport right away but AoT did not grant it for fear of causing trouble to communities around the airport.
The AoT source said it had asked a Japanese contractor to repair the crack but the contractor refused, saying the damage was not its fault.
AoT would tell the contractor to repair the runway and later claim the cost from its insurer, the source said.
Mr Somchai, director of Suvarnabhumi airport, said contractors had reported on the level of water in ditches around runways during last year's floods.
Mr Somchai denied any of the runways in use were subsiding. As for the water seeping underground, he said specialists must be hired to test both runways and taxiways.
Meanwhile, yesterday's meeting on the possible re-use of Don Muang airport was inconclusive.
Adm Theera said he would consult his deputy and a proposal should be submitted to the cabinet in the next few weeks.
Sources said most airlines want Don Muang to serve only non-connecting domestic flights. Most low-cost airlines prefer Don Muang to Suvarnabhumi but Thai AirAsia said it might have to invest in a separate terminal for no-frills service at Suvarnabhumi airport.
Demand for the re-use of Don Muang, currently serving only chartered flights, is gaining momentum due to congestion and problems with taxiways and runways at Suvarnabhumi.
Don Muang airport director Pinit Saraithong said the return of non-connecting domestic flights would bring annual traffic to five million passengers.
The old airport should earn 50 million baht a month from the return of regular flights to the airport, he said

GlueBall

20th Jan 2007, 01:33

The glass enclosures of the otherwise well designed terminal create too many hot spots during sunny days. Instead of conditioned air bubbling from ceiling registers, conditioned air is ejected from floor mounted radiators which traps the heavier cool air on the floor, creating a greenhouse effect in many parts of the terminal where uneven temperatures exceed 25c. :eek:

ZFT

20th Jan 2007, 02:57

Xeque

20th Jan 2007, 12:09

I work in Bangkok and live just outside Pattaya. So, early Monday mornings, I drive up to BKK on the Chonburi motorway to spend the week there. I usually pass by Suvarnabhumi at around 6 am ( just before dawn at present). The problem is swamp flies. They seem to launch at about that time and within seconds my windcreen and (indeed) all forward facing surfaces of my car are covered in squashed insects. My screen washers have difficulty in dealing with them.
My question is - what effect does that have on aircraft windscreens during landing/takeoff at that time of day. The swamp water at the new airport is a real problem. Unless that can be taken care of properly the swamp flies will continue to swarm in enormous numbers just before dawn. And now the other question - how soon before a runway subsides under an arriving 'heavy'?

Phil Space

20th Jan 2007, 12:25

My concern is that there has been no independant control of the construction of this airport. The deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra opened the airport a year before it was ready. But claims of corruption and the Thai tendancy of skimming on materials suggest underlying problems.
Inside the building there are signs of substandard work. The swamp underneath is a major civil engineering problem.
Taxiway subsidence and cracking suggest problems that may affect the runways.
Is it time for major airlines to question the safety and quality of this airport.
Don Muang was miles better for me (and despite having a golf course in the middle!).

Phil Space

20th Jan 2007, 14:31

ASTV News Thailand now reporting 11 separate cracks in the surface at the new BKK airport

Miraz

22nd Jan 2007, 02:29

I went through the new airport (as SLF) for the first time this weekend and got to see the shambles first hand.

The check-in arrangements for StarAlliance/Thai seem to be woefully inadequate - by 6am queues stretched outside the terminal. Only the need for wheel chair assistance made it possible to get through the process in sensible time, even this required a 90 minute wait. Some pax were taking 2.5 hours in the queue.

Phil Space

22nd Jan 2007, 13:23

How long before major airlines declare enough is enough?
http://www.bangkokpost.net/220107_front.jpg
From the Bangkok Post
The head of the inquiry into the construction of Suvarnabhumi airport suspects the cracked and uneven surfaces of runways and taxiways stems from substandard construction.
Praphan Khoonmee, head of the inquiry sub-committee set up by the Suvarnabhumi airport committee of the National Legislative Assembly, and panel members yesterday inspected runways and taxiways where surface cracks are mushrooming.
They found many surface cracks at holding areas for both the western and eastern runways.
The cracks are fine, short and longitudinal and believed caused by the weight of aircraft waiting to take off.
Many parts of the taxiways are uneven and cracked. Most of the flaws are waves in the pavement. The cracks are about a palm wide, a few centimetres deep and less than a metre long at each spot.
Mr Praphan said he heard from staff of Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT) that the problem began only two weeks after Suvarnabhumi opened on Sept 28. It had spread to more than 100 spots with the combined area of taxiway damage more than 100,000 square metres
UPDATE:
Looks like things are getting worse

Minister threatens airport executives

(TNA) - Transport Minister Thira Haocharoen said today he is unhappy with the Airports of Thailand over taxiway repairs at Suvarnabhumi Airport and threatened to "reshuffle" AoT management if repairs are delayed any more.

The minister said if the cracks get worse, or present any obstacle to taking off and landing of aircraft, he would close the facility for repair.

Whether the taxiway would be partially or entirely closed for repair would be determined again.

He conceded taxiway and runway cracks would be used as one of reasons for his decision on whether the Don Muang International Airport would be reopened for some flight services.

He said he had already urged the tackling of the problems through the board, but it seemed the management was slow in coping with them.

The minister on Monday said he had urged the company's board and management to probe and deal with the cracks initially found in 60-to-100 spots of almost 10 areas of the airport.

An initial examination found the problem might stem from the filling and levelling of taxiway areas with sand that does not meet the standard.

However, he said he would wait for details of the examination. Should there be any irregularities, an investigation would be made. Those involved in the irregularities must be punished.

Regarding a contractor's plan to seek compensation for a claim from Dhipaya Insurance Plc by citing taxiway cracks resulted from major flooding last year, Adm Thira said he needed to heed the reasons given by many parties. He could not judge based on information given by a particular party.

Unless its performance improves, he said, the board had authority to reshuffle it.

Will Hung

22nd Jan 2007, 14:52

This doesn't surprise me in the least, and I think the problems will get worse. Corruption pervades Thai society and Government from top to bottom. I have personally handed over 500 baht (£7) to a police officer, as I was told that the alternative was to spend 5 hours in the station filling out forms etc. on a trumped up speeding charge. I have no doubt that some people with good connections would have made plenty of money even by doing the job properly, but no, greed takes over and corners get cut even on profitable work. As for the the logistics of the new BKK, I'll cast judgement in march once I've been through it.

Navy_Adversary

22nd Jan 2007, 17:46

I fly to BKK about 3 times a year and as the new airport was being constucted I took an interest in progress reports.

It was mentioned several months before the opening that there were cracks appearing on the taxiways and runways.

With the opening already delayed several times the authorities just went ahead with the opening and hoped for the best.

With regards to the dubious fine I believe that junior police officers are sent out by their superiors and told to bring some tea money back.

Thailand is thailand though and one should not be surprised, the new MTR had teething problems as well, including a crash:eek:

M.Mouse

22nd Jan 2007, 17:52

While not excusing the bent traffic police ( I too have paid off the police when stopped whilst driving) but they are paid a pittance and as with all else in Thailand the farang can afford to pay.

Corruption is endemic from top to bottom. Nevertheless a beautiful country with a mostly hard working and pleasant population.

The new airport is much like the shopping centres which mysteriously acquired extra floors before completion and subsequently collapsed with great loss of life after opening.

akerosid

22nd Jan 2007, 18:19

In fairness, that shopping centre was in South Korea!

Earl

22nd Jan 2007, 21:32

For those of us that just worked there recently and was never paid by Thaisky or even a ticket home once the company shut down or other operators, pucket air etc. this will just get worse.
Corruption is the norm there, nice place to go but dont expect to get paid.
Nice place for holiday or those willing to work for free to build time or much much less than they were promised on the telephone.
Seen many of these and the over 60 types, cant blame them as this was the only game in town, mostly good people from Delta etc.
Lying is second nature to these people, from the government on down.
It seems that once one pilot has had enough with not getting paid they just get another one.
Aircraft are not good, expect to get really familiar with the QRH.
Best to avoid, would not go back there unless pay was in advance.
All this and no pay.

eu01

22nd Jan 2007, 21:32

The chief of AirAsia has called on Thailand to either reopen the old Don Muang airport for both domestic and international flights or build a terminal dedicated to low-cost carriers at Suvarnabhumi airport.
Thai AirAsia was among the Bangkok-based budget carriers that advocated staying at the old airport ahead of Suvarnabhumi's premature opening to avoid higher operating costs and passenger inconvenience at the new facility.

But AoT's decision to allow only non-connecting domestic flights to go back to Don Muang was beyond the expectation of some low-cost carriers, especially Thai AirAsia, which was encouraged by Airports of Thailand management's initial plan to build an LCC terminal at Suvarnabhumi.

Read more at bangkokpost.com (http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/23Jan2007_biz37.php)

Bangkokeasy

23rd Jan 2007, 07:05

The problems here have the potential to cause serious disruption. The runway cracks have got worse since the raining season ended, prompting speculation that there may be multiple causes to the problem, including inadequate water management (the airport is built on a former flood plain), compounded by substandard construction.

I flew out of Suvarnabhumi over the weekend as SLF and it is obvious that there are also burgeoning management issues. The AOT management is under great pressure to fix the problems at the airport, but it is equally clear that there is no quick fix available for most of them. It is, therefore, inevitable that the current management will be "reshuffled" or "moved to inactive post", and the fact that, for instance, "fixable" problems such as the toilets remaining dirty and ill-maintained, or that there are so many light bulbs out all over the terminal, is symptomatic of a management resigned to their fate. In a few weeks' time, they will be removed and replaced, at which time they can exit blaming the previous administration for the mess they leave behind.

That's all well and good, but now we have potentially safety critical issues arising with the taxiways and runways, particularly the western runway. Bear in mind that Suvarnabhumi is still operating under a temporary international certification, which expires this Thursday, 25th January. Things do not bode well for the granting of a more permanent certification at this stage. The best they can hope for is a further temporary extension, while the pressure will mount to close parts of the facility and move some back to Don Muang.

Wiggly Bob

23rd Jan 2007, 12:22

Glad I'm not the only one to get fleeced by the Cops!!

Not yet travelled through Suverna-whatever but am going to BKK end of the summer. Hopefully they'll be back at DM by then?

Phil Space

24th Jan 2007, 06:55

It appears the answer to runway cracks and possible potholes is that, in true Thai style, Boeing and Airbus drivers are gonna have to just drive around them:confused:
This part of a Thai Government committee report in todays Bangkok Post:
The airport's problems also dominated yesterday's cabinet meeting.
Adm Theera said the cracking was increasing, including those found at the northern end of the eastern runway and the southern end of the western runway.
The immediate solution was to advise pilots to avoid cracked areas. That would be possible because the runways were wide and long enough, Adm Theera said. :ugh:
He admitted that dodging the cracks would inconvenience the pilots and that partial closure of the runways to facilitate repairs might be necessary.
In the cabinet meeting, the minister said, Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont emphasised the need for safety.
Sources said Mr Tortrakul told the cabinet that aircraft could not enter three parking bays due to cracks _ the possible causes of which could be substandard construction materials, poor management in times of floods or a design flaw.
A design flaw may be to blame because more cracks were appearing, even though the flooding had long gone. He expected his committee could conclude its investigation in three weeks after it was formed.
http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/240107_new03.gif
Thiti Paveenchana, an expert from the Engineering Institute of Thailand who has examined the airport, said the water level in the ditches around the airport exceeded the limit in October, when flooding in the surrounding areas was severe.
The safe level of water in ditches and gutters inside the airport should be less than 1.15 metres above mean sea level.
An AoT source said the excess water seeped through weep holes in taxiways and runways. When heated, the water underground forced its way through the pavement, causing cracks. Aircraft weight compounded the problem. Some cracks could be the result of substandard construction while others could stem from seeping water, the source said.

The Otter's Pocket

24th Jan 2007, 08:09

Phil Space

24th Jan 2007, 10:10

These problems are not just specific to SE Asia. Not 10 days ago Bristol was closed due to pilot and airline pressure. From an oversight or commercial pressure Bristol shot itself well and truly in the foot. - Obviously not helped by the media.
Is there a deptment within ICAO that inspects runways during construction and resurfacing to stop problems like this occuring?
Or is it to the National Aviation Authority, contractor to keep abreast of construction quality?

The ICAO handle international certification of airports which for obvious reasons includes runways. There are questions at Bangkok over the runway strength. One of the key factors that has officials worried is the lack of confidence they have in numbers provided by Airports of Thailand for certification of the runways' surface strength, known as the pavement classification number.However I understand that it is not a legal requirment in order for airlines to operate into an airport. Indeed as you will see from what follows BKK has an interim certificate and may soon have none!
From the Nation, Bangkok Thailand
SUVARNABHUMI
Nod for airport safety in doubt
This Friday was supposed to be the day Suvarnabhumi Airport would have received a permanent Aerodrome Certificate for meeting safety requirements of the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) - but that is not going to happen.
Aviation officials are reluctant to renew certificate due to multiple concerns.
The interim certificate issued six months ago by the Department of Civilian Aviation (DCA) in response to the former government's rush to open the airport for domestic flights on July 29, will expire tomorrow and officials feel uneasy about extending it.
DCA director-general Chaisak Angsuwan said the lack of certification was likely to affect international confidence in Thailand's brand new airport, but it was impossible for his agency to issue a permanent certificate amid looming problems such as major cracks on the runway, taxiway and tarmac.
"The best we could do is issue another six-month interim certificate to Suvarnabhumi, but I'm not certain if we can do it by this Friday because there are a long list of questions for which we are still awaiting answers from the Airports of Thailand," he said.
Chaisak said his agency needed to see a comprehensive plan of how the cracks - reportedly scattered around some 100,000 square metres of the airport - would be addressed, as well as other unresolved safety issues such as inadequate lighting and airfield signs.
The Thaksin Shinawatra government rushed to officially open Suvarnabhumi in late September amid criticism from both local and international aviation industry that the airport was not ready. The Council for National Security, which ousted Thaksin 10 days before the opening, said it was too late to change the schedule.
These developments potentially set the stage for the airport to be left in a certification "no-man's land" as Thai credibility in regard to ensuring airport safety up to ICAO standards has suffered a major blow.
"The ICAO will soon release a list of uncertified airports in the world and it remains to be seen if Suvarnabhumi will be on the list," a DCA safety official, who asked not to be named, said.
Runway and tarmac cracks, which began appearing at the time of the official opening, seemed to be getting worse, said the safety official, and that made it impossible to certify that Suvarnabhumi met ICAO standards.
One of the key factors that has officials worried is the lack of confidence they have in numbers provided by AOT for certification of the runways' surface strength, known as the pavement classification number (PCN).
As was revealed by The Nation in July, DCA officials were frustrated that their efforts to obtain the data, and analysis that support the reported figure, have failed.
The safety official said the DCA's handling of certification for the new airport would also be a gauge for the state agency's own credibility. Last year the DCA was chosen as one of the first four agencies under an ICAO global campaign initiated in 2003 to evaluate member governments' capacity to conduct airport certifications consistent with ICAO guidelines. The other countries were Canada, Germany and Malaysia.
"The AOT reputation is going down the drain from the way it manages Suvarnabhumi, [and] I don't want to see DCA going down with it. Otherwise, what will be left of Thailand's aviation reputation?" the official said.
However, Suvarnabhumi Airport director Somchai Sawasdeepon said the aerodrome certification was not a legal binding issue and the airport could continue to operate without it.
"But the certification is an ICAO requirement and we would like to comply with it, that's why we applied to the DCA to issue us one," he said.
"We have addressed the concerns raised by DCA and will submit our answers tomorrow or the next day. An interim certificate is fine because there are many other airports in the world that have also still not been certified."

The Otter's Pocket

24th Jan 2007, 11:11

Dear Phil

Thank you very much for your concise reply.
Although the airport authority has provided the figures that you state and ICAO has questioned these figures, it would seem strange that ICAO don't have an inspector to monitor the construction as it goes along. Rather they wait for the figures to be provided to them at a later date.
Or do they do checks on an ongoing basis? Have I missed something here.

( As an aside - In the UK we have the NHBC and Local Authority building control who issue certificates for stages of construction. For example the foundations are correct.
Does ICAO have a similar system to monitor construction quality as the runway develops?
Surely if it did, these issues should not have arisen).
Regards
TOP

Phil Space

24th Jan 2007, 11:22

If you have ever had any building or construction work done in Thailand you'll know the Thai's are experts at skimming the odd truckload of concrete or hardcore which is coveniently diverted to someones new house project.
This airport was an alladins cave;)

To be fair this sort of trickery goes on elsewhere in Asia. If I could vote with my feet then I'd be back in Don Muang tomorow.

Phil Space

25th Jan 2007, 12:33

The runway and taxiway saga continues at Bangkok with Thai airways flights from Singapore and Hong Kong today having to divert to U Tapao airport in Chon Buri for re-fueling due to stacking problems as repairs on the ground take place. I understand from a surveyor friend of mine here in Thailand that the cracking/subsidance problem is likely get worse with time and use.

This from the Nation newspaper in Bangkok today
Many flights to and from Suvarnabhumi Airport were delayed Thursday following closing of some taxiways and runways to repair the cracks.

THAI Flights from Singapore and Hong Kong had to change direction and land at U Tapao airport in Chon Buri province before flying back to Suvarnabhumi Airport as their gas were running out after circling at the airport for long time.

The main reason was because the airport authorities have closed western taxiways and runways of the airport to repair the cracks, making the all coming aircraft to land at the eastern runways. These resulted in the congestion of the aircraft wishing to land.
Thai Airways International said that there were two THAI flights from Singapore and Hong Kong that had to circling at the airport to wait for their turns to land had to fly and land at U-Tapao Airport in Chon Buri as they were running out of gas. They then flew to the new airport to land.
Meanwhile, Transport Minister Theera Haocharoen accompanied Gen Saprang Kalayanamitr, the Council for National Security (CNS) secretary in his behalf as board chairman of the Airports of Thailand, to inspect runways and taxi-ways at the new airport.
The inspection covered troubled spots on the taxiways where the surface have either cracked or subsided. The taxiway was closed for repair.
More problems concern the bridges linking boarding gates to aircraft. As some aircraft needed to take detour to avoid the troubled taxiway spots, only 40 of 51 bridges could be used to service passengers, adding to traffic operational headache.

"Some airlines are concerned about safety and they avoided the troubled taxiway areas, although some spots have bee repaired and ready for use," said Theera.

The Nation

B772

25th Jan 2007, 13:32

I was at the new BKK 2 days ago. This was my second visit since the airport opened and as I had some spare time during the turnaround I decided to have a 'look' at the terminal building.

On Concourse C (level 2) there are some cracked windows. Toilets and signage are a joke throughout the terminal. Males entering Female toilets and vv.

I was told there is an 'army' of workers drawing plans for changes in the terminal. Sections of the terminal will be closed whilst works are in progress.

Bangkokeasy

26th Jan 2007, 01:51

Oh dear me, this is set to get worse.

In answer to TOP's question, for reasons known only to themselves, the ICAO allow the Thai Department of Civil Aviation to "self certify" on behalf of the ICAO. This is one of the root causes of how we have got to this mess, because clearly, what we here call "influential people" (which at the time included the former prime minister) have coerced the DCA to grant this certification, even though they were not presented with any evidence to support the AOT's claims as to the strength of their runways. Even then, 6 months ago, they only granted Suvarnabhumi temporary certification, which expired yesterday. We are waiting for news if this has been extended, but that is unlikely, because the influential pressure is now in reverse and the DCA are furiously backtracking to try to save what little of their reputation remains.

The ominous thing is the timing of all this. The problems with the runways would seem to stem from the fact that they are of generally sub-standard construction. This should be viewed in the context that the whole facility is built on a flood plain. In Thailand, from April to October, it rains pretty much every day and the water table is replenished. From November until March, there is almost no rain and the water table subsides. For that reason, there has to be proper water management and the runways have to be properly built. We are now in the middle of the dry season at the end of January and the water table will continue to fall for another two months at least. We can therefore, expect further subsidence in the coming months, followed by the inevitable bulging, followed by the inevitable...

As a letter in The Nation newspaper yesterday pointed out, it would take a competant engineer roughly two weeks to ascertain the real situation, which has yet to be properly investigated. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/page.news.php?clid=13&id=30025017 (scroll down to reach the letter in question)

Unless the issue is addressed on more than a temporary fix basis, this can only get worse.

Will Hung

26th Jan 2007, 07:43

"The entire thing can be resolved in very short order. The only possible reason why standard engineering methodology has not already been applied is that some person or persons with the ability to obstruct the analysis already knows what the test results would be".

Sums it up perfectly !

Metro man

27th Jan 2007, 01:29

Hong Kong airport was built in a far more difficult position than Bangkoks yet hasn't suffered the same problems. Difference being it was constructed properly in the first place.

After only four monts of operation SVB is already cracking up, what does that say about the quality of workmanship. As soon as one crack is fixed another appears to replace it.

Temporarily close the place, shift all traffic back to the old airport and have the place examined properly by qualified people, whose findings don't depend on the contents of a brown envelope, to see if it can be fixed.

ZFT

27th Jan 2007, 03:02

I believe this sorry saga will reach it's inevitable conclusion soon.

In one way or another Suvarnabhumi will have to (partially) close for quite a long period.

Dr Prasert, CEO of Bangkok Airways who have built Koh Samui, Trat and Sukhothai airports themselves with no problems estimates that the reconstruction would take at least 15 to 18 months!!!!

Whitehatter

27th Jan 2007, 09:26

X_class

27th Jan 2007, 11:27

CNN have picked up on the story now with a lovely strut-smashing pothole picture
Wouldn't that look wonderful with an A380 nosewheel stuck in it!
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/TRAVEL/01/27/thailand.airport.ap/index.html
Whitehatter - are you sure that is a pothole ?
Looking at the picture I see a rectangular hole with sharp vertical edges - I would guess that has been excavated to repair a damaged section. Your suggestion that the hole is the result of traffic using the taxiway seems a little unlikely.

Elroy Jettson

28th Jan 2007, 06:15

Ok, anyone operating in there regularly, how bad is it? Surely cant be any worse than the goat track taxiways of SIN Changi?

faheel

28th Jan 2007, 10:10

You have got to be joking Elroy. Just where are these goat tracks??
I have been operating into and out of Changi for the
last 16 years and have never seen anything remotely like a "goat track "

Elroy Jettson

28th Jan 2007, 11:30

Ive only operated there for 10 years, so you win. Im not joking, I rate it as one of the roughest patched up poorly maintained runways and taxiway systems I dont enjoy operating in to. But each to their own eh?

Cheers.

CYRILJGROOVE

28th Jan 2007, 19:09

I heard that the Army Generals own the Limosine Companies thats why it is hard to find the Taxi rank as they did not put any signs up directing people to them initially.

ZFT

28th Jan 2007, 21:29

I heard that the Army Generals own the Limosine Companies thats why it is hard to find the Taxi rank as they did not put any signs up directing people to them initially.

You heard incorrectly. The limo contract was 'bought' well before the coup.

Bangkokeasy

29th Jan 2007, 02:38

In case you didn't pick this up from other sources, as expected, the Thai DCA did not renew the temporary ICAO certification for Suvarnabhumi last week, so it is now running without.

Fright Level

29th Jan 2007, 15:03

where are these goat tracks??

I've flown in and out of Changi for 15 years. The main runway surfaces are dreadful and departures off 20C can be quite rough as you approach V1.

Although not quite as bad, I've seen gear & tire pressure (false) messages pop up at high speeds during the t/o roll as the ride over the surface is so bad.

About time Changi invested some money in their main runways rather before they spend a fortune widening taxiways to fit their new 380's.

reynoldsno1

29th Jan 2007, 18:57

Does ICAO have a similar system to monitor construction quality as the runway develops?

ICAO is part of the UN - signatories (i.e State governments) to the Chicago Convention agree to observe the Standards & Recommended Practices laid down by ICAO, or inform ICAO when there are differences. The individual States' regulatory authorities are invested with the responsibility to implement their government's policy - so the Thai DCA handling certification of BKK to ICAO standards is nothing unusual, it's done that way in countries all around the world.....

charlesfrith

30th Jan 2007, 05:24

The new MTR was involved in an accident due to humans not because the railway tracks had been built on a swamp with contractors raking in untold millions of dollars by building what is and always will be a sinking runway.

The solution to the rapidly eroding runway has been given a radical suggestion by Thailand's leading architect in a newspaper interview. He said it (the runway) needs to be built on stilts.

Now that might seem crazy but it's actually a radical solution to a crisis at this new airport. I would urge you pilots to boycott the airport until all flights are moved back to Don Muang. It's older but it's safer. The impact of 400 landings or so a day is taking it's toll on this airport that is rapidly going down in history as Thailand's most dramatic failure to understand that cutting corners costs lives. As they did in the Tsunami when the person responsible failed to warn Phuket even though they knew what was going to happen.

I've been in Thailand for 8 years and I've never known Thais to be so scared of what's happening. It's either Don Muang or Disaster.

Bangkokeasy

30th Jan 2007, 05:45

Well, it is now official, according to a decision by the Thai government yesterday, most domestic flights will now transfer back to Don Muang. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/01/30/headlines/headlines_30025475.php

Whilst I do not quite go along with Charlesfrith's scary comment, it is certainly a national disgrace and it should be born in mind that the repairs to the tarmac at Suvarnabhumi will require the closing of each runway in turn for a considerable time, as I am pretty sure the whole things need re-laying down to a considerable depth. In the meantime, there is the danger of sink holes appearing, as the groundwater continues to recede over the next three months. It is not just the surface that is a problem, but the sand that was used as a base, which was of the wrong type and does not do the job of carrying away water sufficiently well.

Up to now, the runway and taxi-ways have only been patched, which just won't hack it in the long run. If you have driven the highway from town to the airport, which was also built to lower than required standard, then you can see the result. Admittedly not so critical, but constructed to even lower standards than the airport surface itself, the highway has been repaired about 4 times since the airport opened, due to subsidence and surface disintegration.

charlesfrith

30th Jan 2007, 05:50

Why the airport is a stinker of a heap

by zigtoc@[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jan 25, 2007 at 12:45 PM (http://www.talkaboutculture.com/group/soc.culture.thai/archive/2007-01-25.html)

Old Thai proverbs shed light on airport fiascoWhy can't they do one thing right at Suvarnabhumi Airport? In a way,the Suvarnabhumi Airport mirrors Thai society.We have an excellent location to be the transport hub of SoutheastAsia. We are a great nation with a rich history (have you watched "TheLegend of King Naresuan"?). We have the natural resources. We have thefacilities. But we can't do things right.Why?You probably have to go back to the Thai proverbs or old Thai sayingsto understand the particular traits that have given rise to the motherof all sloppy and corrupt projects - the new airport.It took more than 40 years, an incredibly long time, to plan, designand build this airport, during which time politicians came and went.This is in line with the saying chao cham yen cham ('I just wash onedish in the morning and another dish in the evening'), which describesmotionless people who are very economical with their energy and whorarely set their sights on getting anything done. Chao cham yen cham ismost often used to describe civil servants who are lazy and lack theincentive to work. Well, that's why it took us 40 years to build theairport. Cracks have begun to appear in a taxiway and runway only fourmonths after its opening. This has raised doubts about the standard ofsafety at the airport.It all goes back to the time when politicians, civil servants andcontractors colluded to fill in the land at Suvarnabhumi in a suk aophao kin ('I'll eat it regardless of whether it's cooked or burnt')way. Suvarnabhumi was originally swampland with a high incidence offloods. Efforts to fill in the land began during the government ofGeneral Chavalit Yongchaiyudh and continued through to the governmentof Chuan Leekpai.Engineers and technicians will have to investigate whether the land atSuvarnabhumi was filled adequately enough to support the taxiway andrunway. The authorities, at one time, used to allow some water into theland to alleviate flooding in nearby areas, possibly undermining thefoundation of the taxiway and runway. So, now we have the cracks in ataxiway and runway as a result of this substandard practice.We happened to have dishonest politicians, civil servants andcontractors responsible for this, who went about their jobs in a mannerthat was suk ao phao kin. Suk ao phao kin means to do things sloppilyor recklessly. This suk ao phao kin behaviour is another prominent Thaitrait.The roof of the terminal also leaks. You might substitute suk ao phaokin when referring to this approach to construction and call it loop napa jamook ('I just need to stroke my face and patch up the nose then Ican get away with it').Don't forget to open up your umbrella once you are inside the terminal- it might rain!During the six years of Thaksin Shinawatra's reign, construction of theairport terminal and other facilities got off the ground and it waseventually completed. This gave politicians and civil servants a goodchance to revise the design and call in new contracts to facilitatebribes.The contractors had to pay bia bai rai thang ('I have to pay moneyunder the table all the way'). With the cost of the bia bai rai thang,the contractors had to compromise on the quality of the jobs they werehired to do.While the Thaksin government was in power, politicians adopted a namkhuen hai reep tak ('I must fetch the water while the tide is high')approach. It was time for the opportunists to make money without fearof the consequences. They wanted to open Suvarnabhumi as quickly aspossible because only then they could walk away with lucrative dealsfrom the contractors. Now that Thaksin has gone, all the dirty tricksthat occurred while the airport was built have become evident. Thesaying nam lot tor phut ('when the tide goes down, all the stumps showup') accurately captures this. The stench of corruption hovers over theprocurement of the CTX luggage scanners and the underground power-linesystem. There are not enough toilets for passengers, as toilet bowlshad to make way for shops.Shortly after the coup, the military leaders asked the airportauthorities if they were ready to open Suvarnabhumi or not. If thingswere not ready, they could delay the opening further. The authoritiesassured everybody that the airport was 100 per cent ready to open.This haste to open Suvarnabhumi was an act of phak chi roi na ('toppingmy face with coriander just to get a way with it'). In July, two monthsbefore he was ousted, Thaksin had proudly launched a soft opening ofthe airport by flying from Don Muang to Suvarnabhumi. He wanted the newairport to become a hallmark of his government's success.As a result, we have an airport that is beautiful from the outside, butinside it is hollow. This is equivalent to khang nok sook sai khangnaipen kluang ('I look beautiful from the outside, but don't ever kissme!') It's hard to believe how badly things have turned out atSuvarnabhumi. Only the old proverbs can say it all.Thanong KhanthongThe Nation

Seaman Staines

30th Jan 2007, 06:44

The legacy and liability of greed

With Suvarnabhumi quickly proving itself a shining monument to greed, the prospect of reopening Don Muang is one of the most promising developments in post-coup Thailand
By PHILIP J CUNNINGHAM
The news that Don Muang Airport will be back in use soon is a very promising development for the country, for it not only alleviates a transportation bottleneck created by the inadequacies of the new airport, but also stands as a symbolic rejection of the megaproject crony-capitalism that characterised the Thaksin era.

The appointment of fabled Thaksin critic Chirmsak Pinthong to the board of directors of the Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT) is also an encouraging sign that the controversial Suvarnabhumi Airport, which bears the heavy imprint of the deposed premier, will find its level _ not as a money-making scheme or an overblown gateway to Thailand, but as a useful regional airport.
Initially eyed for domestic flights only, the revival of Don Muang will make domestic air travel convenient again and probably less costly. If nothing else, it gives the air traveller the option to fly from a well-established transportation hub rather than forcing everyone to traipse out to remote airport built on an ancient swamp.

Perhaps international flights could be resumed at Don Muang as well; many cities with populations considerably smaller than Bangkok boast two or three airports. While multiple airports can lead to some confusion for first-time travellers to London, Paris or New York, the system works well overall and is a boon to the discriminating traveller.

Visitors to New York, for example, can opt to arrive at La Guardia, which is convenient to Manhattan and Queens, or the JFK, which is convenient to Brooklyn, Queens and Long Island. And then there's the nearby Newark airport servicing both Manhattan and New Jersey. JFK is primarily international and La Guardia is primarily domestic, but absolute segregation of domestic and international flights is hardly necessary.
For example, Suvarnabhumi could bear the brunt of tourist arrivals, with connecting flights to Phuket and tourist-oriented destinations, while Don Muang could function more as a businessman's airport, with its convenient access to downtown, the train and domestic flights.The details can be debated, but the point is that Thailand is not well-served by granting a monopoly to Suvarnabhumi Airport, a project that came to fruition under capitalism with Thaksinomic characteristics. Suvarnabhumi, as currently configured, offers up the deposed premier's vision of what an airport should be; first of all there was lots of money to be made in the making of it, secondly there are monopolistic shops and limo services to rake in more money and then there are the frilly VIP services geared to the well-heeled traveller.

In short, it is an infrastructure built and maintained by the rich, prejudiced in favour of rich travellers. It is a socially-engineered contained environment, a money trap, cluttered duty-free shops and all, a bottleneck through which all Bangkok air travellers must pass.

Although Suvarnabhumi Airport is plagued by cracked runways and shows signs of uneven settling, it is here to stay in the short and mid-term and must be utilised, if only as an overflow airport for the expanding tourist tide that was putting strain on the funky but functional Don Muang Airport.
The new airport cannot be abandoned but it need not be the country's showcase either, it's best seen as just another airport, a not entirely unattractive one that may prove especially popular for visitors whose main aim is to hit the beaches without going through Bangkok.

Downgrading Suvarnabhumi to just another airport makes sense logistically, it also has symbolic value. To force every air traveller to pass through a bottleneck that became in essence a get-rich-quick scheme for the discredited Thaksin government and its big business cronies, is unfair.
The new airport, as it was diced up and distributed among Thaksin crony-investors, is a shining monument to greed. Known for its crooked deals and cracked runways, overpriced luggage scanners and overpriced food, drink and duty-free, the new airport is but one of many megaprojects of the sort where the smart money was made well in advance of completion by politically-connected middlemen and brokers.

Fees pocketed for the privilege of "taking meetings" and public funds wasted on overpriced purchases will probably never be recovered, but wrongdoing should be thoroughly investigated.

Dispensing political favours and rampant commercial greed, while ugly, is not entirely beyond understanding. What is unforgivable _ if evidence of the sort suggested by the problem of runway cracks should prove to be firmly documentable _ is the implicit risk to safety that results from such corruption.

The sight of jet-lagged travelers laden with luggage limping down the cavernous yet oddly cramped corridors of the new airport, winding past dripping ceilings, stained floors, poorly ventilated restrooms and broken lights, suggests that the unhealthy vapours of the plot once formerly known as Cobra Swamp have not entirely dissipated. Short-cuts in construction quality are evident, though there are no short-cuts from landing gate to the distant taxi stand, and there are no mass transit alternatives to the car-clogged roads into town.

Inadequate toilet facilities make for lousy first impressions and dubious parting memories from a nation's gateway airport, but cracks on the runways bespeak actual physical peril. The news about jets forced to circle over Suvarnabhumi repeatedly, and even in some cases to make unscheduled landings at U-tapao airstrip in Sattahip while emergency repairs are conducted on cracked runways, illustrates how carelessness in the contracting and construction stage of a megaproject can precipitate inconvenience and worse, further down the road.

A well-to-do European traveller remarked that the new airport's VIP services, which include being greeted at the gate, getting whisked through customs and having one's luggage be taken out to a waiting limo, makes for a smooth first impression, but how many regular travellers can afford such a luxury? Only a small percentage of travellers could take advantage of such perks without the sytsem breaking down. Staying at the Oriental Hotel also makes for a nice impression, but you pay for it dearly and it cannot in any case accommodate large numbers of people.

In the meantime, the average traveller, who pays just as much of the inflated airport tax as the thick-walleted crowd, will find no convenient public transportation upon exiting baggage claim but instead a host of lesser alternatives which range from paying 50 extra baht for the privilege of waiting for an ordinary taxi while huddled on a crowded curb in a poorly-ventilated, sunless car park, or lugging personal effects up and down escalators and elevators to try and find a free-ranging taxi at the open-air departure level, or making cumbersome connections to a bus that leads to another bus.

Taking care of the airport and other unwieldly white elephants left over by the previous administration poses a challenge to the current prime minister, who is faced with the task of mopping up the mess left by Thaksin Shinawatra even while the exiled prime minister and his supporters beat the drums for a comeback. Mr Thaksin, a wily politician, continues to make his presence felt in manifold ways. He has hired pricey Washington DC public relations flacks to enhance his aggressive media strategy outside of Thailand. Inside the country he retains, through links of money and loyalty, supporters in high places in business and the bureaucracy, and now, with the airport, a physical infrastructure that bears his vision.

Architects understand the dynamic that even as we shape our buildings, our buildings also shape us. Mr Thaksin's tentacles of power will continue to haunt the new government if it lets the Thaksin legacy, be it the new airport or mega-malls or the bureaucracy, shape the new Thailand, instead of redefining that legacy.

Philip J Cunningham is a free-lance writer and political commentator.

Source: http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/30Jan2007_news19.php

I published the article in it's entirety, as urls can change with the BP. :ok:

Navy_Adversary

31st Jan 2007, 17:49

I believe that the Bangkok Post are reporting that the repairs to the cracks etc will be put on hold until February 5th when tests have taken place to see what exactly is causing the problems.
I am due to arrive Friday afternoon, will report any problems.:8

Sunray Minor

31st Jan 2007, 18:40

Sounds like an overly negative write up to me.

Facilities at Don Muang were next to none, the commute little different from the one to Suvarnabhumi and the airport itself an utterly miserable experience for a country such as Thailand.

Suvarnabhumi is flawed certainly, and in some areas at the most fundamental level. The airport as a whole, from a passengers experience however is one big step up on Don Muang. Not to mention the BTS clearly being built there - something Don Muang is clearly not going to get.

A victim of the worst excesses of capitalism, it most clearly is, but I know where I would certainly arrive and depart from - baggage delays included.

llondel

31st Jan 2007, 21:09

As a matter of interest, what implications are there for an airport not having ICAO certification? Obviously it means that it's not up to standard, but is there an insurance liability or other unpleasant side-effect for an airline operating flights there? What happens if an incoming plane hits a new pothole at speed when landing and does something interesting to the gear? Or is it a case that nothing will happen until such an event occurs?

After all, Bristol started losing trade with a dodgy runway, would all the major airlines actually refuse to operate to BKK?

F900EX

31st Jan 2007, 21:14

Surprised the king himself does not get involved based on the fact he is partial to left seat of Thai Airways 737 fleet.

Surely with such an interest in aviation he could make this happen tomorrow.

Ron & Edna Johns

31st Jan 2007, 21:49

Having passengered through the new BKK terminal recently, I was amazed at just how substandard the whole place is. "Gloomy" was the immediate word that came to mind - the lighting is just hopeless at night. The isolated bright spots are the retail shops. You walk for absolutely miles to get anywhere - are there any travelators?

Then I noticed my long-haul colleagues planning our QF1 sector to London whilst sitting in the holding pen in amongst the passengers! "Nowhere to flight-plan" they said..... One of the crew got up to get something out his briefcase and returned to find a 5-yr-old had taken his seat! A long, complicated sector to London and the crew can't even have a counter with decent lighting away from the 300+ customers. Then again, maybe that is simply QF cost-cutting in action - an office somewhere would cost money?

The new BKK ain't even close to the same league that includes SIN, HKG, KUL, ICN and NRT. What on earth were the Thais thinking?

charlesfrith

1st Feb 2007, 10:37

The picture you're looking at is a sampl of the runway that has been sectioned down to reveal the extent of the cracking. If you look closely the base of the runway is in very bad shape. It's a random sample to show how poorly it was constructed. I'd put pressure on your unions not to fly there. Thailand is reeling from this last chance to show it had joined the 21st century. It hasn't and you should be landing at Don Muang.

charlesfrith

1st Feb 2007, 10:39

The runway is waiting to just open up in the dry season. You mark my words.

Will Hung

1st Feb 2007, 12:40

Quote : "What on earth were the Thais thinking ?

How many Farangs have asked that question ? The truth is they don't think the same as us. "Money number one". Always has been, always will be.

ChocksAwayUK

1st Feb 2007, 14:02

Quote : "What on earth were the Thais thinking ?
How many Farangs have asked that question ? The truth is they don't think the same as us. "Money number one". Always has been, always will be.

Well that's definitely not the case amongst the many Thais that I know.... quite the opposite if anything. But then hopefully I've misunderstood you. It certainly applies to Thaksin, of course.

reynoldsno1

1st Feb 2007, 18:43

Couldn't agree more - the managing director of r1family.com is Thai and has been for the past 17 years - her family are the least materialistic people I know...

Sunray Minor

2nd Feb 2007, 10:37

Yep, I third that - such generic statements about the Thai personality are somewhat crass.

When it comes to materialistic Thaksin takes the award, but don't extend that to the nation at large.

Will Hung

2nd Feb 2007, 11:12

Sorry Guys. Just my humble opinion, having been there 27 times, lived there for 1 year, and married to a Thai for 6 years. I stand by my belief that the debacle at BKK is due, mainly, to corruption.

Ye Olde Pilot

2nd Feb 2007, 12:14

The saga continues with test holes being drilled everywhere and now the boss of Airports of Thailand cracks up and resigns. Rats and a sinking ship spring to mind.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/020207_front.jpg
Chotisak Asapaviriya confirmed Friday his resignation as president of Airports of Thailand (AoT) resulted from his health, not his attempt to avoid an evaluation of his job performance.

"I've been under stress even before the Suvarnabhumi airport opened. I did not sleep for three days (before it opened)." Mr Chotisak said in a morning interview with a radio station. "It has been very stressful since it opened. I weigh 14 kilos less in the past three to four months after it opened."

Two executives of the airport -- Somchai Sawasdeepol and Sombat Khunprasert -- were dismissed from their positions as the airport director and its director of commercial operations over problems there.
An investigation into the cause of some 100 cracks found on the taxiways and runways of Bangkok's brand new $3.9 billion Suvarnabhumi Airport will be ready by Feb 16, the head of the probe said on Friday.

"At least 97,000 square metres of the airport has been damaged, or 5.3 per cent of the whole facility," said Tortrakul Yomnak, chief engineer at the Airports of Thailand (AoT) who is leading an investigation into the Suvarnabhumi fiasco.

Only four months after its official opening on September 28, more than 100 cracks have been found in Suvarnabhumi, prompting the government to consider the reopening of Bangkok's old airport at Don Muang, at least to service domestic flights.

There are fears that corners were cut in groundwork beneath the Suvarnabhumni runways, which might lead to more cracks and a complete closure of the new airport in the future, or else a massive fix-it bill.

The cracks have highlighted the extent of the corruption involved at the massive infrastructure undertaking, which was one of the pet project of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted by a coup on September 19.

"We all know there was a lot of corruption in this project," Tortrakul told a group of journalists he had taken to inspect the airport on Friday. "Maybe 90 per cent of the projects (involved corruption)," he ventured.:D

ChocksAwayUK

2nd Feb 2007, 13:53

Sorry Guys. Just my humble opinion, having been there 27 times, lived there for 1 year, and married to a Thai for 6 years. I stand by my belief that the debacle at BKK is due, mainly, to corruption.

Well at least you have some experience to qualify your opinion, though perhaps you have been unfortunate in some of it. However, I agree with your last point. Few would deny that much of Thai politics is routinely subject to corruption.

Fangio

2nd Feb 2007, 14:46

Re: Qantas pre-flight planning at the gate just does not ring true. I was in the QF crew report office at BKK last Friday checking availability on the QF1 in view of the travel embargoes being placed on BA staff pax on BA flights pending the planned cabin staff strike.The office is on the second floor,it is shared with BA. The various comments regarding the new building are certainly true, in particular the toilet facilities, or lack of them.
On the piers, there are travellators for inbound pax but not outbound pax and there was not a golf buggy in sight for the elderly or infirm. The whole airport has a depressing feel about it, except maybe the shopping area.

Will Hung

2nd Feb 2007, 15:29

F900EX. I suspect he probably has already been involved !

stickyb

2nd Feb 2007, 15:49

And now it takes a new twist....
Engineers have examined the Suvarnabhumi Airport and found reports of damage overblown, with no cracks on runways or taxiways, it was reported on Friday.
In addition, foreign airlines report that they and their crews are happy with the physical state of Suvarnabhumi ground facilities.
Suchatavee Suwansawat, the secretary of the government-appointed panel of engineers assigned to inspect the facilities, said:
"There are no cracks. The cement base is fine. The problem can be fixed."
According to Mr Suchatavee, the problem with the runways and taxiways are ruts, not cracks in the asphalt, the reports said.
Reporters who accompanied officials Friday to what were described as the worst-affected areas saw ruts a few centimetres deep but only a small area with hairline cracks.
"This is a common type of damage. You see it in airports all over the United States," said Noppodol Phien-Wej, who is also on the government-appointed panel. He is a member of the Consulting Engineers Association of Thailand.
The panel of engineers will report that while it is unusual for the Suvarnabhumi tarmacs to show damage after only four months of major use, the problem is not serious.
"What is unusual here is the scale of the problem and the speed it is happening," said Mr Noppodol.
He said damage was minute. About 70,000 square meters, or 84,000 square yards, amounting to 2.3 per cent of the airport's total pavement, is damaged, he said.
James Ward, a spokesman for British Airways, also spoke with reporters on the tour.
"Everything is normal," he said. "So far we haven't had any reported problems. Takeoffs and landing are normal. We haven't heard any complaints from the staff."

Source: Bangkok Post 3/2/07 http://www.bangkokpost.co.th/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=116510

AndyPandy

2nd Feb 2007, 20:38

Sorry Guys. Just my humble opinion, having been there 27 times, lived there for 1 year, and married to a Thai for 6 years. I stand by my belief that the debacle at BKK is due, mainly, to corruption.

With respect that is not what you said in the post which is being disagreed with.

You said:
How many Farangs have asked that question ? The truth is they don't think the same as us. "Money number one". Always has been, always will be.

I too have visited Thailand for various reasons many times over the past 17 years and also happen to live with a Thai whom I met in the UK.

While I doubt anybody disagrees with the assertion that corruption is endemic in big business and government your generalisation about the people does not hold any more true for Thais than it does for any other nation.

Ye Olde Pilot

3rd Feb 2007, 01:49

Stickyb....
That is just part of the reporting from todays Thai press and yes that item puts things in a better light. Perhaps you missed this from The Nation newspaper this am.

Ruts, cracks at airport termed dangerous

A leading foundation engineer and members of Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont's advisory team paid their first visit to Suvarnabhumi Airport yesterday, much to the surprise of the Airports of Thailand (AOT)'s investigative committee headed by Tortrakul Yomnak.
The premier was reportedly "very concerned" about the crisis at Suvarnabhumi and sent his own advisory team, led by General Wattanachai Chaimuenwong, to independently assess the growing number of problems being uncovered at Thailand's new airport.
A key member of the team, Dr Suraphol Chivarak, who is the country's leading expert in foundation engineering and airport surface design, showed his concern about the safety of Suvarnabhumi's airfield.
He told The Nation after investigating the ruts and cracks on the airport's taxi lanes yesterday that the condition looked "dangerous".
He expressed doubts that the AOT under the current leadership could solve the airport crisis by itself. He also questioned the independence of the AOT's investigation committee, headed by Tortrakul.
"You go back and watch TV [footage] of people [involved in the project] then and now, and you will probably see that the faces are all the same," Suraphol said.
While the spotlight of public attention is on the Tortrakul committee to produce its findings on the structural problems at the airport - originally promised for next Friday - Suraphol said he did not expect the Tortrakul committee to produce any significant findings that would lead to long-term solutions of the engineering problems at the airport.
Meanwhile, technical experts contacted by The Nation expressed similar views: to determine the root cause of the runway and taxi way ruts and cracks, it is perhaps better for the government to hire international experts to investigate the problems.
While they did not doubt the ability of Thai engineers, they seriously questioned their independence.
An aviation engineer told The Nation that it was hard to find any engineer in this country who did not have a history with the nearly five-decade project.
more here:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/03/headlines/headlines_30025849.php
And from todays (Feb 3) Bangkok Post

SUVARNABHUMI TAXIWAY, RUNWAY CRACKS

Data on inferior sand was concealed, panel says

APINYA WIPATAYOTIN
Previous tests carried out by the Highways Department found substandard sand at Suvarnabhumi airport but the discovery was swept under the carpet, Tortrakul Yomnak, chairman of a committee investigating runway and taxiway problems said yesterday. The department found that six out of 10 samples collected around a taxiway and runway were substandard, he told a press conference without elaborating.

''The Department of Highways once conducted the tests. But information was 'put under the table','' Mr Tortrakul said.
''Now, we have to do the tests again and let the public know the results. From now on, everything must be clear and transparent.''
source: http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/03Feb2007_news02.php

The airport is a disaster brought about by corruption.
King Power, the monopoly that 'secured' the contract for the aiport retail area has found to be occupying 37,000sq m but their contract is for only 20,000sq m. You don't have to be much of an airport manager to discover there is nearly twice as much retail space on the airport floor as that shown on the drawings. Regulars to BKK will be aware of the large King Power duty free shop that causes a bottleneck near immigration. Duty free space is around 11,000sq m. Agreed duty free area was 5,000sq m.

Pity they were not so generous with the toilets:=

Xeque

3rd Feb 2007, 15:20

This is a photograph of Bangkok Suvarnabhumi airport taken on July 26, 2006 a few weeks before the airport officially opened.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s113/Xeque22/VTBS01JoiningdownwindL19L_2.jpg
Now, I’m not a civil engineer but it seems to me that even if the level of the airport itself had been raised by 10 – 15 feet (a major landfill operation in anyone’s terms) the lowest part of the of the runway and taxiway foundations (assuming that the hardcore, impacted foundation material and runway sub-structure and top surface was at least 10 feet thick) would have been very close to the water table as you can see. Subsidence would seem inevitable.
There has been much comment, locally and elsewhere, that the airport was rushed into service and opened too early. That related to the terminal buildings and has nothing to do with the runways and taxiways that were already completed. No amount of work (other than a complete rebuild) over an extended period of time until the airport was deemed to be ‘ready’ would change that.
I accept that there are airports around the world that have been built either on or very close to water. London City or the new Hong Kong (even the old Hong Kong) are examples. But look at that photo. Suvarnabhumi has just been laid down on top of an existing swamp! There is no solid substructure (like Hong Kong which began as 2 islands) or London City which was built above existing piers and jetties that had been there for nearly a century.
The latest in the saga here is that the Director has resigned and a couple of lesser individuals have been sacked. Since it was the Director himself who categorically stated that the airport would never close, does that clear the way for closure for real? Interesting.
Keeping Suvarnabhumi open whilst there are severe doubts as to it’s safety will do Thailand absolutely no good at all particularly with the tourist industry reeling from a combination of negative events such as the coup, bombs in Bangkok, the insurgency in the south etc etc.
Re-opening Don Muang for international flights and adding U-Taphao to ease the strain makes very good sense. This will allow the Thais to shut Suvarnabhumi down and set about sorting out Suvarnabhumi once and for all thus creating the prestige international gateway it should have been from the outset.

Curious Pax

3rd Feb 2007, 16:38

Take a look here - posting a picture (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=246758)

Xeque

4th Feb 2007, 10:30

Many thanks for that. I'm working on it as we speak :)

charlesfrith

4th Feb 2007, 12:44

To deny that different cultures are the same about money is to say that they all enjoy eating chilli to the same degree. If people wish to put there politically correct, and blind, glasses on that's fine. The thing about having views is that I am allowed one too. I feel everybody should have the same opportunities in life, that's everyone, but that doesn't mean that all cultures are God forbid the same. I've lived in Thailand for 8 years and I can share a secret with you. It's called the land of smiles and they have 20 different names for a smile. Including the one that means I'm smiling but I hate you or you are my boss or I don't like the joke.... but I'm still smiling. Get the drift?

Some folk live here a lifetime and never quite get that. As for money. There is no broad middle class and until there is most Thai people will see it from the very poor and very rich sides of the spectrum. I think we all know what that means.

Back to the airport. It was built on a swamp. It's a kick back trough for the rich who have lined themselves with it. It's been built to poor specification and poor workmanship. Yep, the local culture is not famous for attention to detail. The move back to Don Muang will happen when the U.S. and E.U start to put pressure on Thailand that safety is not a joke.

Xeque

4th Feb 2007, 13:59

Its a bit confusing that there is more than one thread on this subject. Perhaps the moderators could put them together. I posted this an hour or so ago on the Airlines, Airports and routes forum.

This is a photograph of Bangkok Suvarnabhumi airport taken on July 26, 2006 a few weeks before the airport officially opened.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s113/Xeque22/VTBS01JoiningdownwindL19L_2.jpg

Now, I’m not a civil engineer but it seems to me that even if the level of the airport itself had been raised by 10 – 15 feet (a major landfill operation in anyone’s terms) the lowest part of the of the runway and taxiway foundations (assuming that the hardcore, impacted foundation material and runway sub-structure and top surface was at least 10 feet thick) would have been very close to the water table as you can see. Subsidence would seem inevitable.
There has been much comment, locally and elsewhere, that the airport was rushed into service and opened too early. That related to the terminal buildings and has nothing to do with the runways and taxiways that were already completed. No amount of work (other than a complete rebuild) over an extended period of time until the airport was deemed to be ‘ready’ would change that.
I accept that there are airports around the world that have been built either on or very close to water. London City or the new Hong Kong (even the old Hong Kong) are examples. But look at that photo. Suvarnabhumi has just been laid down on top of an existing swamp! There is no solid substructure (like Hong Kong which began as 2 islands) or London City which was built above existing piers and jetties that had been there for nearly a century.
The latest in the saga here is that the Director has resigned and a couple of lesser individuals have been sacked. Since it was the Director himself who categorically stated that the airport would never close, does that clear the way for closure for real? Interesting.
Keeping Suvarnabhumi open whilst there are severe doubts as to it’s safety will do Thailand absolutely no good at all particularly with the tourist industry reeling from a combination of negative events such as the coup, bombs in Bangkok, the insurgency in the south etc etc.
Re-opening Don Muang for international flights and adding U-Taphao to ease the strain makes very good sense. This will allow the Thais to shut Suvarnabhumi down and set about sorting out Suvarnabhumi once and for all thus creating the prestige international gateway it should have been from the outset.

Bangkokeasy

5th Feb 2007, 03:51

The thing about all this is that to anyone who has had anything to do with this project, the whole debacle is no surprise whatsoever.

To put this in context, you should understand something about how this society works. Megaprojects, as they are termed here, are always instigated and carried through by corrupt, but strong politicians, who are the only people with the cojones to bulldoze the things through. When Taksin came to power, the general consensus was, "at least we will now get some things done". It is these people who have one-track minds as far as the backhanders are concerned. They care nothing for the ultimate condition of what they create, because the problem will be fixed (and they will atone for their sins) "sometime in the next life". For what they have done, they will come back as a cockroach anyway, so what do they care? The mistake so many made was to assume that Taksin was somehow different from the rest.

Practically, this means that, once the crooks have taken their slice, they hand the thing over to professionals, who have to clear up the mess and make it work. There is a middle class of Thais who generally, given a system to work, will find a way to operate that can be highly effective. and at that level, the corruption is far less. I am sure that eventually this will happen in this case, but the difference is that this is such a huge project, with serious defects, so much in the international spotlight, and with safety implications for all of us.

P.S. I have lived and worked in Thailand for 15 years.

Fudge66

5th Feb 2007, 07:58

This is my first post on these forums, and I'm an IT person, not familiar with the inner workings of the aviation industry. In December, I went to Thailand (have been going for many years) with my family for a holiday. Leaving through Suvarnabhumi was not a great experience. Why? The check in computer system had crashed!!!

I know and understand high availability computer systems. I could not for the life of me understand how such a system could be "unavailable". The poor staff did their very best manually writing out the boarding passes and the flight back to Melbourne was delayed as a result. If computer systems need to be up and stay up 100% of the time, it can be done. That it was not reflects poorly on those responsible for the system.

It appears that it's not only the runways, taxiways and buildings which are substandard, but their IT systems as well.

Ye Olde Pilot

5th Feb 2007, 09:32

It's the airbridges now:ugh:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/050207_front.jpg
From the Bangkok Post today
More problems at new airport
Passenger boarding bridges need repairs
Workers make repairs to the damaged passenger boarding bridge at Gate D5 at Suvarnabhumi airport.
AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK

Suvarnabhumi airport has another flaw _ 11 passenger boarding bridges are damaged, two of them seriously, according to a source at Airports of Thailand (AoT).

Officials are looking into the cause of the problem, but cannot yet say whether it is due to substandard steel, improper installation of the airbridges or the failure of staff of Thai Airports Ground Services Co (Tags) to operate the moveable bridges properly.

Two boarding bridges were seriously damaged and the others would need minor repairs, the source said.

The bridges at gates D5 and F1 must be closed due to the serious nature of the damage and their walls must be replaced. The bridges at gates G5, G3, F5, D6, C7 and B4 are slightly damaged but still usable.

Suvarnabhumi has 51 gates and 105 passenger boarding bridges. The bridges were built by ITO Joint Venture, which is the airport contractor, and AoT contracts Tags to operate them.

The AoT had informed ITO and the company promised to repair them in a week, the source said.

An ITO source said operators compounded the damage as they continued to use the airbridges despite problems with the moveable mechanisms.

The ITO source insisted the steel used to build the airbridges met specifications and could withstand 520 kilogrammes per square metre.

Deputy Transport Minister Sansern Wongcha-um became aware of the problem during his visit to the airport last week and ordered quick repairs to minimise any impact on passengers.

Former Suvarnabhumi airport director Somchai Sawasdeepol attributed the problem to the moveable mechanisms of the boarding bridges' extendable tunnels.

A passenger boarding bridge consists of three extendable and retractable tunnels. The moveable mechanisms, especially the wheels and rails, might have been packed too tightly and operating them might have cracked the bridges, especially the middle tunnel. Those cracks finally rust due to oxidation.

According to the source, AoT informed ITO of the problem late in December and officially asked the company to repair the bridges on Jan 22.

ITO proposed checking all passenger boarding bridges and to later check them every three to six months to ensure their smooth operation.

Apart from problems with the passenger boarding bridges, the four-month-old Suvarnabhumi airport has cracked runways as well as cracked and uneven taxiways.
The premature damage will probably result in some domestic flights being moved back to Don Muang airport. The Transport Ministry's recommendation will be tabled for cabinet approval tomorrow.

charlesfrith

5th Feb 2007, 10:31

It would be great if the moderators could pull all these threads together.

That aerial picture of the airport is terrific and shows clearly why the Swampy Doom airport was sinking before it opened, and is sinking further each day. Here's a post that I wrote here (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showforum=105) on a heavy traffic Thai forum, but it was pulled by the moderators as it was too contentious. I don't blame the self censoring as truth is not a valuable commodity in Thailand, but here it is for the international pilot community who might be interested in finding out why the new airport is built of canvas and glass effectively turning it into the worlds largest greenhouse.

Something I've noticed completely missing from any reports in the English Language press is the complete lack of accountability. So many pigs had their noses in the troughs that maybe the actual faces are hard to recollect? People wring their hands in dismay and yet there is no discussion of who lined their pockets at the expense of the Thai people and the country's reputation. Chavalit Yongchaiyudh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chavalit_Yongchaiyudh)authorised the use of land at Nong Ngu Hao as it was then called and began to fill in the land during his government (http://www.talkaboutculture.com/group/soc.culture.thai/messages/496347.html)of. But that is correlation which is not corroboration right? Or is the biggest problem that the airport was built on a swamp and sinks a little each time a plane lands? Surely not?

I guess King Power (http://www.kingpower.com/)have being fingered for having too much retail space for their contract, and the owners/stakeholders should be held accountable. We could make a start with Susan Valerie Whelan the Group Deputy Managing Director, she looks very proud (http://www.kingpower.com/management.asp) of herself doesn't she and she couldn't be the same Susan Valerie Whelan who garnered 759 (http://www.bradford.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/FD145021-98DA-4B67-AA6F-321D41C2E9AE/0/PCS2528.PDF%202004) votes for the liberal democrat party for Bingley in England in and then went on to disappear without trace? I don't know. But real politicians tend to be very active in the community and get written about more than once?

We do know that the Chicago firm of Murphy Jahn (http://www.murphyjahn.com/english/frameset_intro.htm)are the architects. Helmut Jahn the chief architect had a shaky start to his career when the roof of his first (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Jahn) major project Kemper Arena in Kansas City, Missouri collapsed in 1979. I understand that from a design point of view the new airport is wrong (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/04/headlines/headlines_30025909.php) as glass and canvas were inappropriate for a tropical climate. That's an elementary error and they should be held accountable for their actions. I've sent an email already and will keep you updated.

In the mean time from the Murphy Jahn website does say this and I don't think I recognise the description, perhaps they should do the decent thing and remove the dream........

The New Bangkok International Airport will be constructed on a vacant site outside of Bangkok. It will be constructed incrementally. The first phase will have approximately 50 gates and 500,000 SM of terminal facilities.

Based upon the master plan and preliminary schematic design documents that have been already prepared, this concept emphasizes passenger circulation over aircraft circulation. Although the curbfront area is not capable of providing for the ultimate capacity of the site, leading to two separate entrances, it is the most compact terminal of those that we studied.

A large roof trellis structure placed over the complex of functionally separate buildings unifies the site and provides an overriding consistent architectural image. Sized to accommodate future growth, the trellis provides an important functional advantage as well as an architectural one. With louvers positioned to shade the structures below from direct sunlight, mechanical loads are reduced.

The buildings under the trellis take their architectural form from the function that they serve. The ticketing area is rectangular with its structure suspended from the trellis above. At the intersection of the tubular concourses are cylindrical rotundas, their skylit roof structure suspended from and shaded by the trellis above.

Outdoor spaces between the buildings are also shaded by the roof trellis and are important to the overall concept. Rather than empty areas reserved for future expansion, they become outdoor landscaped courtyards useful for pedestrians and a visual amenity for the passengers.

Cultural artifacts and traditional architectural elements would be placed within these landscaped courtyards, linking the terminal complex to the cultural traditions of Thailand. A new Sala covering a replica of the "Lord Buddha's footprint" from the temple complex currently on the airport site is one such possibility.

RevMan2

5th Feb 2007, 11:21

Fudge66

I could not for the life of me understand how such a system could be "unavailable".
. If computer systems need to be up and stay up 100% of the time, it can be done. That it was not reflects poorly on those responsible for the system.

It appears that it's not only the runways, taxiways and buildings which are substandard, but their IT systems as well.

Departure Control Systems (Check-In, Weight & Balance etc) are the responsibility of the individual airline and they'll generally buy in from a hosting provider - Amadeus, Sabre, LH Systems, SITA.

They'll offer a SLA of 98% and typically deliver 99.x%. Even with 99.99% availability, you're still looking at around 45 minutes a month downtime...

Add to this the complexity created by communication layers - WAN, LAN, CUTE etc which may or may not be the responsibility of the airport and/or airline and you can imagine that 99.x% at rthe desktop isn't too foul

Ye Olde Pilot

6th Feb 2007, 07:39

After all the razzamataz and claims of being Asia's number one hub BKK is now going to be a two airport city.:hmm:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/images/space.gif
Bangkok will now have two international airports; Suvannabhumi and Don Muang, Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said Tuesday.

(BangkokPost.com, Agencies)
The cabinet on Tuesday approved the plan for two international airports in Bangkok, giving second life to the 93-year-old airport at Don Muang which was closed last year, supposedly forever, to make way for modern, expensive, but profoundly damaged Suvarnabhumi Airport.
Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said the decision was made due to the problems at Suvarnabhumi. The $3.7 billion facility already needs massive repairs to taxiways and runways. It has a leaking roof, unattractive terminal, lack of signboards and toilets, poor lighting and faulty air-conditioning.

Most spectacularly, it is too small to serve Bangkok for much longer.

"The number of passengers is also increasing at the Suvarnabhumi Airport. So we feel there is a need to have two international airports... We will make a final decision in two weeks' time," he told reporters after the Cabinet meeting.

The government had first suggested that domestic flights without international connections operate from Don Muang, but many airlines feared that lack of a transport link between the two airports could cause inconvenience for overseas-bound passengers flying in from the provinces.

Transport Minister Thira Haocharoen said the airport could be used within 45 days after a final decision was made, adding that renovation works were going on to re-open the Don Muang Airport which used to be an airfield for the Royal Thai Army and opened in 1914.

captphil

8th Feb 2007, 23:41

Just pondering the heat in BKK a the moment has TARMAC been advised? because they will be busy in Norfolk shortly....:)

merlinxx

9th Feb 2007, 07:40

I wonder if your old crew mate "Master Bates" changed his name to Thaksin
Shinawatra?:ugh:

Ye Olde Pilot

9th Feb 2007, 13:28

It gets worse by the day.
With the new BKK falling apart and the old BKK stripped of ATC and baggage handling equipment there is little chance of Don Muang re-opening in the next month and Singapore and KL look like picking up the mess.
It is as cheap if not cheaper to fly in to most of Thailand from both of these real international airports as Bangkok bound flights endure the mess
that is unfolding here.

Agence France Presse
The Thai Airways Union warned Friday its 14,000members would launch protests if the government does not back down on a plan to re-open Don Muang airport.

The labour union of Thai Airways said it believes the splitting of air traffic between the old Don Muang and the new Suvarnabhumi Airport could cost Thailand its bid to become Southeast Asia's most important hub.

Union boss Somsak Srinual said he would submit a letter to Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont next week to urge the army-backed government to keep Suvarnabhumi Airport as Bangkok's only international airport.

Meanwhile:
No need to close airport: director

Only a small portion of Suvarnabhumi airport need be closed for repairs and maintenance, leaving most areas operable as normal, said Narongchai Thanadchangsaeng, deputy director of the airport.

Mr Narongchai's comment followed the suggestion by Adm Bannawit Kengrian, head of the National Legislative Assembly's committee investigating Suvarnabhumi airport problems, that the airport be closed temporarily for repairs following reports of runway and taxiway cracks.

The committee chairman said only about five or six per cent of the entire three-million-square-metre space of the airport will be closed for repairs while all other areas will open as normal.

Such partial repairs are commonplace at other international airports worldwide, the deputy Suvarnabhumi airport director commented.

(bit like the roads and pavements in downtown BKK:uhoh: )

Workers employed to repair a portion of the airport will be kept removed from the passenger terminals while airport security measures will be thoroughly enforced to assure safety for passengers as repair and maintenance work proceeds, Mr Narongchai said.

Meanwhile, an Airport of Thailand's committee headed by Tortrakul Yommanak and currently investigating the runway cracks is scheduled to give a press conference on progress in the probe on Monday. (TNA)

Ye Olde Pilot

9th Feb 2007, 16:34

Sorry about the confusing pic,Don Muang as you stated.

Bangkokeasy

12th Feb 2007, 02:56

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/12/headlines/headlines_30026600.php

From the Nation today:

AIRPORT FIASCO
Govt urged to close Suvarnabhumi
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/images/space.gif
NLA investigation chief cites safety fears in calling for a total and immediate shift back to Don Muang

The fate of the Bt150-billion Suvarnabhumi Airport hangs in the balance as an investigation panel is due to reveal the cause of damage to the taxiways and runways at the landmark transport hub.

The government appears to be divided about whether the airport should be closed for repairs, amid fears that such a move could shake international confidence in the Kingdom's infrastructure.

Admiral Bannawit Keng-rien, chairman of the National Legislative Assem-bly's airport committee, yesterday stood by his suggestion that the airport should be closed if both runways were damaged.

"The closure would be for the sake of safety," Bannawit said.

His committee was established to tackle the problems surrounding the flagship airport, which only opened in late September.

Bannawit maintained his suggestion despite Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont's insistence that the airport should remain open so as not to damage international confidence.

It could stay open while repairs are completed, the premier said on Saturday.

A panel headed by Tortrakul Yomnark will today reveal the problems faced by the airport, how the repairs should be conducted and whether closure is necessary.

A civil engineer by trade, Tortrakul is a board member of the Airports of Thailand and his panel has conducted a technical assessment of the runways.

Tortrakul's panel will report its investigation results to Transport Minister Admiral Theera Haocharoen before making the findings public.

A source said the Tortrakul panel had found serious cracks on the taxiways, with further damage on the northern part of the east runway and the southern end of the western landing strip.

The insider said the runway repairs could be made without disrupting flight schedules.

"Services can alternate between the two runways," the source said.

Krai Tungsnga, a member of the Bannawit panel, said the airport's problems were not serious enough to force it to close. However, Bannawit said yesterday that if Suvarnabhumi were closed, Don Muang would be able to accommodate flight and airfreight services.

"I propose closure because it will prevent problems from dragging on," he said.

Meanwhile, Thai Airways International's union has condemned plans to allow Bangkok to have two international airports. And Demo-crat Party's spokesman Ong-art Klampaiboon urged the government to set up another committee to investigate Suvarnabhumi's problems.
"A committee of experts should look at all problems, not just the taxiways and runaways. What about the water leakage, inadequate lighting and overheating in the terminal?" Ong-art asked. He said the government should act against those responsible for the airport's problems.

Unquote...

Ye Olde Pilot

14th Feb 2007, 00:43

Confusion reigns here as the debate goes on over the condition of the runways and taxiways at the new airport. Some officials claim the repairs can be done in a few days or a month! The airlines don't want to return to Don Muang for sure.

Frrom the Bangkok Post
Star backs THAI stand on airport

Alliance says two sites too costly

BOONSONG KOSITCHOTETHANA
Carriers under the Star Alliance, one of the world's largest airline groups, are backing Thai Airways International in its contention that Suvarnabhumi should be Bangkok's only international airport. The nine Star airlines that operate flights through Bangkok's troubled new airport are collectively expected to make a formal announcement confirming their stance within two days, according to industry insiders.

The nine are ANA, Asiana Airlines, Austrian, Thai Airways, Lufthansa, SAS, Swiss, Singapore Airlines and United. They operate 1,092 departures a week, providing nearly half the passenger seats through Suvarnabhumi.

Air India and Turkish Airlines, which also operate through the new airport and are due to join the alliance, also favour the ''under one roof'' strategy.

Star will become the first major international airline group to take an official stand in the debate surrounding the proposed reopening of Don Muang airport for international services.
The initial response from many international carriers was a preference to stay at Suvarnabhumi until the government made clear its policy, which had left them confused and frustrated.

And from the Nation

Transport Minister Theera Haocharoen will tomorrow meet airline officials to discuss the plan to reopen Don Muang airport for use as an international and domestic airport.

"We're not going to close Suvarnabhumi as repairs to the runway can be carried out while the airport is in service," he said at Government House after a meeting with Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont ahead of the Cabinet meeting. "Suvarnabhumi will not be closed. We have invested a huge amount in the airport and we need to maximise its benefits," he reiterated.
Airlines can make their own choice as to whether to move operations to Don Muang, he said. "As far as I know, not many airlines are going to move back as they have already poured in substantial investment at the new airport," Theera said.

Xeque

14th Feb 2007, 01:36

Heard on the radio on my way to work this morning that the engineering report has been made public and is generally critical of the undue haste with which the airport was opened. This includes the runways and taxiways where sub-standard materials were used and corners cut to save time. One runway is to be closed for repairs and will remain closed 'for as long as it takes' to complete.
With regard to the terminal building, work will begin to bring that up to standard. This includes work on the emergency exits (I hadn't heard about that before).
It seems that they are detirmined not to close the airport competely although they still seem to be keeping their options open with regard to re-opening Don Muang.

Bangkokeasy

16th Feb 2007, 01:05

There have been two developments recently. The first is that the airlines collectively have opposed the reopening of Don Muang, which is summed up in this article in the Nation today and will likely mean it is impractical to reopen it:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/16/headlines/headlines_30027004.php

The transcript of which is as follows:

Don Muang unlikely to reopen after airline snub
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/images/space.gif
Don Muang Airport may not be reopened as fewer-than-expected airlines have shown any intention of moving their operations back to the old airport, said an executive of Airports of Thailand (AOT).

Pinit Saraithong, Don Muang director, said that only three airlines - Nok Air, Thai AirAsia and One-Two-Go - were interested in moving to Don Muang. The number of flights these airlines operate only accounts for a tiny proportion at the new Suvarnabhumi Airport.

"How could we survive with such a small number of clients?" he said after the meeting with over 60 airlines yesterday.

Due to the opening of Suvarnabhumi in September, AOT has suffered from higher operating costs. Its net profit for the October-December period dropped sharply to Bt1.36 billion from Bt3.30 billion a year earlier.

AOT had earlier expected at least 30 per cent of flights from Suvarnabhumi would be moved to Don Muang. But the three airlines operate about 300 flights per week - or less than 10 per cent of traffic at Suvarnabhumi.

Transport Minister Theera Haocharoen said after the meeting that the issue would be finalised by a panel chaired by Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont, which will hold a meeting today.

At the meeting, over 60 airlines including Thai Airways Interna-tional (THAI) insisted that they would not move.

Sopin Daengteth, chairman of the Airline Operators Committee, said: "International airlines won't return to Don Muang, even though the old airport would be reopened for international flights."

Taxiways and runways at Suvarnabhumi could be fixed while airlines operate as usual.

Brian Sinclair-Thomson, president of the Board of Airline Representatives in Thailand, revealed that international airlines disagreed with the idea of having two international airports in Bangkok. He said all supported the single-airport concept, which should ensure Thailand's status as an aviation hub.

Star Alliance, the gathering of nine leading airlines including THAI and Lufthansa, are among those who will stay at the new airport.

"We fully endorse the policy of our home carrier and founding member THAI to retain its hub of operations at Suvarnabhumi Airport," said Jaan Albrecht, Star Alliance chief executive officer, summarising the position of the Star Alliance Thailand Country Steering Council.

"By moving together under one roof at the new Suvarnabhumi, Star Alliance carriers have signalled their joint intention to offer fast and comfortable connections and services in safe, modern and passenger-pleasing facilities."

THAI President Apinan Sumanaseni said the group's decision would strengthen the regional hub position with the support of the alliance. Under the 'Move under one Roof' concept that is rolled out around the world, members can provide airport services such as check-in and lounges from the same terminal.

Star Alliance members include ANA, Austrian, Asiana Airlines, Lufthansa, Scandinavian Airlines, Singapore Airlines, SWISS and United. Together in Bangkok, they operate 1,000 flights per week which represent 47.2 percent of all international seats.

Committed to moving to Don Muang are only One-Two-Go and Nok Air. However, when it starts its Bangkok-India route in the second quarter, Nok Air will operate the international flight from Suvarnabhumi, according to its CEO Patee Sarasin.

While the AOT proposed the reopening for domestic flights only, the Cabinet later approved the old airport for both domestic and international flights. They reasoned it would reduce traffic at Suvarnabhumi, paving the way for repairs of the west runway and taxiways.

Even Thai AirAsia is reluctant to go to Don Muang if it is reopened for domestic flights only. The airline operates 80 flights per day and most of the passengers are from overseas. The airline plans to expand its international network to the Philippines, Vietnam, Southern China and India.

CEO Tasapon Beijleveldsaid: "We are standing by our proposal from the beginning. We want to operate both domestic and international routes at one airport, which could be at Suvarnabhumi or Don Muang."

Chalongbhop Sussangkarn, president of the Thailand Research Department Institute, said he raised three questions at the meeting yesterday to ask the participants if airlines should move to Don Muang.

"First, whether the runway repairs at Suvarnabhumi would affect the existing flights. If there is no effect, there is no need for relocation. Second, if the existing flights are affected, how many flights should be reduced. Third, whether only domestic flights or both domestic and foreign flights should be relocated," he said.

"In answering these questions, we need to take into account effects on airlines, passengers and public confidence. Then, there should be a long-term direction on how the government is to make use of two airports."

There was no data available to answer these questions at the meeting, he concluded.

Suchat Sritama,

Watcharapong Thongrung
The Nation

Unquote

The second thing is that I hear unofficially that the conclusion of the "experts" is that the damage to the main runways at Suvarnabhumi is not sufficient to warrant complete reconstruction, although the same cannot be said of the taxiways, which will require substantial relaying. There are some safety-related issues concerning the main terminal building, notably the substandard lighting control systems, that are apparently not built to handle tropical temperatures. There are also, allegedly, some other details in the report prepared for the government that are being withheld, because they relate to safety issues and might alarm the public :ugh: .

The bottom line is that the most likely outcome of this fiasco is now that we are stuck with making do with Suvarnabhumi only, warts and all, while they make repairs and that there will inevitably be disruption and risks while this is done. :* The only thing that could change this now is if the government meeting today decides to impose the two airport plan, over the objections of the airlines. Stranger things have happened - remember this is not a democracy!

Sunray Minor

16th Feb 2007, 10:12

Bangkokeasy,

I wonder how many passengers would prefer Don Muang over Suvarnabhumi though?

Obviously the new airport has issues, but surely there is absolutely no comparison between the two. Give me Suvarnabhumi any day over Don Muang.

Tolsti

16th Feb 2007, 10:34

http://ww.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=116846
Don Muang to reopen next month
(BangkokPost.com)
Bangkok's old international airport would be re-opened in the next two to three weeks, said Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont on Friday.
"Don Muang airport is being renovated," Gen Surayud told reporters. "It should be ready for domestic and international flights no later than the next two to three weeks."
He added that airlines could decide for themselves whether they wanted to move back to the old airport.
Gen Surayud also confirmed that Suvarnabhumi airport would not be closed for repair as it would be fixed while in operation. However, domestic flights would have to move to Don Muang in the initial stage to free some taxiways and runways at the new airport for fixing.
Meanwhile, Transport Minister Theera Haocharoen confirmed that Don Muang airport would be primarily used for domestic flights since most of the international airlines did not want to move back there.
He expected that there would be about 70 flights a day, or about 17 per cent of all the flights, that would go back to the old airport.
***************
Whatever happens Thailands reputation can only suffer over this fiasco of indecision.... but then again... TIT....This is Thailand

Sunray Minor

16th Feb 2007, 11:02

Considering they've just had a coup, I don't think a few traumas with a new airport is going to bother the Thais much. And lets face it, the vast majority of the population will never get the chance to set foot in Don Muang or Suvarnabhumi anyway.

While there is still a low exchange rate, beaches, women and business, Thailand will continue to receive travellers. The fiasco will simply be shrugged off.

Ye Olde Pilot

17th Feb 2007, 10:29

It looks like the international airlines have put their collective foot down and made the decision for the junta. :=

This from The Nation today:

Don Muang International Airport may not be reopened due to lower-than-expected number of airlines that have shown the intention of moving their operations to the old airport, said an executive of Airports of Thailand.

Pinit Saraithong, Don Maung director, said the old airport may not be reopened as only three airlines are interested in moving to Don Muang. The airlines operate a number of flights which account for a tiny part of the flights operated at Suvarnabhumi.

"How could we survive with the few number of clients," he said.

That on top of this:
(posted in full from the Bangkok Post in case the story disappears!)

Airlines adamant about staying at Suvarnabhumi

(BangkokPost.com from reports)

Representatives of international airlines are meeting today in Bangkok after they threatened to halt flights to Thailand rather than move back to the old Don Muang airport.
Board of Airline Representatives president Brian Sinclair-Thompson, speaking for more than 60 carriers, told the media on Friday night:

"Some members are going to review their commitment to continue their services from Thailand if they are forced to split operations to serve two airports.''

The statement forces a standoff between the airlines who insist on staying at Suvarnabhumi Airport on one hand, and the government which wants to increase flights at Don Muang and repair problem-plagued Suvarnabhumi.

Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont has announced he will personally take over the handling of problems related to Suvarnabhumi.

On March 25, a total of only 71 flights are to begin using Don Muang. They include all flights by budget airlines Nok Air and One Two Go, and a handful of Thai Airways domestic flights

The Murphy Jahn/TAMS/ACT (MJTA) consortium which built Suvarbabhumi claimed on Friday that the new airport's design met with all the requirements of the terms of reference it had signed with Airport of Thailand.

But Wanchai Wimuktayon, managing director of ACT Consultants Co, which is part of the MJTA, also said the design had been modified during construction to cut costs.

The consortium claims to be confident that the new airport is safe enough for all passengers and staff working in the facility, and all airlines agree.

Xeque

17th Feb 2007, 12:54

Airlines threaten to boycott Thailand

BANGKOK: -- International airlines have threatened to stop flights into Thailand if they are forced to move from the new international Suvarnabhumi gateway back to the old Don Muang airport.

Board of Airline Representatives president Brian Sinclair-Thompson, speaking for more than 60 carriers, said last night:
"Some members are going to review their commitment to continue their services from Thailand if they are forced to split operations to serve two airports.''

The threat effectively forced the hand of Thailand's military government, which has been besieged by problems surrounding the new $A7 billion gateway, opened last September as a replacement for the 90-year-old Don Muang facility.

Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont has announced he will personally take over the handling of problems related to Suvarnabhumi after the pull-out threat was made to Transport Minister Theera Haocharoen at a meeting with top foreign airline officials in Bangkok.

Gen Surayud told the Bangkok Post that fixing Suvarnabhumi's problems - including numerous cracks on runways and taxiways as well as design flaws at the main terminal - was now among the top priorities of the interim government.

In addressing the airport's problems, his government would keep in mind that it must protect national interests and ensure passenger safety.

A high-level meeting has been called for today by the committee on operating policies for Suvarnabhumi and Bangkok airports.

Gen Surayud is expected to rubber-stamp the Transport Ministry's recommendations on the future of the two airports after a briefing on conditions at Suvarnabhumi by teams that have examined the problem-plagued airport.

It is now known that 71 flights by only three domestic carriers - Nok Air, One Two Go and some Thai Airways services - will resume from Don Muang on March 25.

The consortium which built Suvarbabhumi claimed yesterday the new airport's design met with all the requirements of the terms of reference it had signed with Airport of Thailand (AOT).

But the Murphy Jahn/TAMS/ACT (MJTA) consortium admitted yesterday the design had been modified during construction to cut costs, and said it was confident that the new airport was safe enough for all passengers and staff working in the facility.

Wanchai Wimuktayon, managing director of ACT Consultants Co, which is part of the MJTA, promised his company would clarify 31 out of 61 construction-related problems in the area of airport design at a press conference to be held on February 21.

He was confident, however, that all the problems could be fixed and the repairs would not require the airport to be completely closed.

--The Australian 2007-02-17

Clipped

17th Feb 2007, 21:42

I bet the laughter from the offices of the authorities from KLIA and Changi, is deafening.

Ye Olde Pilot

20th Feb 2007, 17:59

For sure although there are big probs withe the Thai military government saying they want the big toys like the satelites back pronto from Singapore. All the major airlines have thrown their toys out of the pram and say no to Don Muang!

Meanwhile:
Cabinet approves re-opening of Don Muang Airport

(dpa)
The cabinet on Tuesday approved the reopening of Bangkok's 92-year-old Don Muang Airport on March 25 to handle domestic flights while the capital's new but problem-plagued Suvarnabhumi Airport will handle mainly international travel.
Government spokesman Yongyuth Maiyalarp said the cabinet had decided to reopen Don Muang to handle only domestic flights and it would be up to the airlines themselves to decide which airport they will use.

So far, Thai Airways International (THAI) has agreed to operate its domestic routes from Don Muang as has its affiliate Nok Air and two other privately owned Thai airlines, One-Two-Go and PB Air, Mr Yongyuth said.

Airlines that choose to remain at Suvarnabhumi would presumably be allowed to operate both international and domestic flights.

Don Muang was closed to commercial air traffic on September 28 when the 3.9-billion-dollar Suvarnabhumi was launched.

A host of infrastructural problems at Suvarnabhumi, including 100 cracks found in its taxiways and one of its two runway four months after it opened, prompted the government to give the go-ahead to reopen Don Muang should the new airport be forced to close for major repairs.

An initial investigation into Suvarnabhumni's cracks, however, revealed that the fissures and ruts were not serious and posed no safety threat.

Suvarnabhumi's problems have been highly politicised as the massive airport was the pet project of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted in a military coup on September 19 on charges of corruption and dividing the nation.

spiney

20th Feb 2007, 23:16

This thread is getting a bit shrill and emotive... They recognise they have a problem with the new airport and they intend to fix the problem. (Hey - that's a big step for most major projects). Debating why the problems occurred in the first place and who skimmed what from whom helps not-a-jot in getting the problems fixed 'cos this is not actually rocket science - its' concrete and tarmac and electricity and plumbing... lot's of it granted, but not exactly cutting edge.

Fortunately they have an existing airport which can be partly reinstated to take some of the load off the prime facility. If this is done carefully it should keep passenger disruption to a minimum... and if it isn't - passengers who can will simply vote with their feet, and route through or to other destinations in the region where the air transportation system works. The nightmare scenario is if the problems get worse and the split between Suvarnabhumi and Don Muang stretches out indefinately.

As for airlines 'boycotting' Suvarnabhumi... hmm... who's gonna be the first one to do that then? (After you ... mate..) In my experience airlines will not walk away from good business. As long as they can sell tickets, they'll fly that destination. I've seen airports much worse than Suv, with massive amounts of disruption and congestion which were log-jammed with airlines trying to rip their competitors to shreds...

rkd993

21st Feb 2007, 04:51

Amen to those comments.:ok:

There are lot of areas like this (corruption, silly levels of risk) emerging the cost cutting world, in and out of Asia. Remember the runway incident in Ohio late last year? Under staffing of controllers among other things.

Operators and governments need to take direct (read boycott) actions if they can force it no other way.

Risks rapidly shift from acceptable to unacceptable in many of these scenarios and if we can't trust the authorities to do the right thing then we are back to much more direct actions as the only alternative to, as was said, Disasters.

Regards

Bangkokeasy

21st Mar 2007, 06:55

The old airport reopens this weekend, on Sunday 25th March. Nok Air, One-two-go and 30 of TG's "non-connecting" flights will operate from there. The airport will be known as "Don Muang Airport", rather than Bangkok International Airport, which will still belong to Suvarnabhumi.

Don Muang will have the code "DMK", while Suvarnabhumi will keep the code "BKK".

Will Hung

21st Mar 2007, 15:03

Got back last night from Thailand. Have to say, on arrival in BKK felt very much like I was in a concrete/glass warehouse. Very "cold", unwelcoming, impersonal. etc. etc. Coming back however, a completely different experience. Fast check-in, nice Thai serpent statue thing, the best collection of expensive shops east of Bond Street, but no KFC ! An outrage ! They're certainly going to have a long term problem keeping all that glass/plastic/canvas clean and water-tight. Couldn't believe the area the place occupies. In reckon LHR could fit in it 4 times (ish). Saw a bit of work going on around some taxi ways, but not a lot. Saw acres upon acres of spare taxiways. Couldn't really see what all the fuss is about, but then, you're not going to from 65C. Overall impression, better leaving than arriving. (The airport that is, certainly not the country)

Xeque

25th Mar 2007, 11:09

Don Muang Airport reopens

DON MUANG: -- Bangkok's nearly century-old Don Muang airport reopened to domestic flights Sunday to ease the crowds at the city's troubled new airport, authorities said.

Don Muang was one of Asia's busiest hubs until it was shuttered in September, following the opening of the sparkling new Suvarnabhumi Airport.

Some 140 flights carrying 20,000 passengers daily are now set to use the airport, beloved by many for its quirks -- including a golf course between the main runways -- and its relatively easy access to downtown Bangkok.

The revived airport's first flight took off for flag carrier Thai Airways at 6:00 am for the northeastern city of Ubon Ratchathani, an airline spokesman said.

A sign draped across the check-in counters read: "Welcome back to Don Muang."

"Don Muang has reopened and is running smoothly," said a spokeswoman.

Thai Airways is keeping some flights to popular tourist destinations like Phuket and Chiang Mai at Suvarnabhumi in hopes of minimising inconvenience to the more than 13 million holidaymakers who visit Thailand each year.

Two other airlines, low-cost carriers Nok Airways and One-Two-Go, have moved their flights to Don Muang but international carriers have refused to leave Suvarnabhumi.

Don Muang had been shuttered six months ago as officials hoped Suvarnabhumi would establish Bangkok as Southeast Asia's preeminent air hub.

Instead, the three-billion-dollar facility has been plagued by problems from cracks in the runways to complaints about safety and sanitation.

Officials say that moving domestic flights to the old airport will ease overcrowding at Suvarnabhumi and make it easier to repair the runways and fix other problems.

--AFP 2007-03-25

stickyb

16th Jan 2008, 22:52

From the Bangkok Post

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=125202

The fire prevention system at Suvarnabhumi airport is substandard, a team of engineers has concluded in a report.

The report, completed by experts at the Engineering Institute of Thailand, is to reach the Airports of Thailand today.

According to the report, fire-fighting equipment as well as installation and maintenance are below standard.

Besides this, smoke and heat detectors and sprinklers do not cover every area of the passenger terminal. Areas that are not covered include some electrical control rooms, corridors and conveyor belt zones.

Apart from being of poor quality, detectors are installed behind wire pipelines and racks and air vents that may hamper their function and obstruct maintenance.

Some sprinklers are out of order.

There are not enough manually operated fire alarm switches. Safety standards require one switch every 60 metres along passages.

The survey team also found some fire controls indicating false fire alarms and malfunctions but these had not been attended to.

Most of the fire exit signs are not sufficiently illuminated and some signs have direction arrows that confuse toilets and fire exits.

A number of electric appliances such as switches are easily broken.

Most wire pipelines are substandard, and this includes poor ground wire installation, it said.

Shops block some fire exits and some fire hose cabinets while some of these hose cabinets have incomplete sets of instruments.

The report also indicated water leakages in electrical control rooms with drops of water falling onto control panels. Many control rooms are made into storage and living quarters.

Flammable perfume and cosmetic products are stored behind illuminated advertisement boxes and partition boards of shops were made of flammable wood, plywood and hardboard.
Besides, a Thai pavilion blocks the airflow to ventilating fans and a large-scale sculpture and a restaurant block passages to fire exits in Concourse D building, the report said.

Thai Pom

17th Jan 2008, 02:43

The List just goes on....

Innaflap

17th Jan 2008, 05:32

Half the entrance/exit doors are locked on the departure side, I have grave reservations that they could get people out fast enough through the remaining revolving doors that are open, there is a huge confusion of cordons in the check in areas - especially Thai - that will prevent people from escaping quickly, the exits on arrival side are permanently blocked by illegal taxi touts, the glass partitions before immigration are an obstacle, the way they police the cars and taxis will surely prevent escape and prevent the emergency services from getting access.......

Will Hung

17th Jan 2008, 07:43

Well I like the the place. It certainly beats the shabby, third world, "Band-Aid" covered airport I leave to go there.

UFGBOY

17th Jan 2008, 07:46

Bit unfair on Manchester

Basil

17th Jan 2008, 09:12

Some sprinklers are out of order.
Most of the fire exit signs are not sufficiently illuminated and some signs have direction arrows that confuse toilets and fire exits.
A number of electric appliances such as switches are easily broken.
Most wire pipelines are substandard, and this includes poor ground wire installation,
Well, that's The Queens Castle for you.

Phil Space

25th Jan 2008, 13:24

Seems the Thai security is as bad as the airport!
From the Bangkok Post
SUVARNABHUMI / SECURITY

Burmese breaks into airport, hides on plane

An illegal Burmese immigrant who sneaked into Suvarnabhumi airport's compound and managed to board an empty Turkish Airlines plane on Tuesday night has raised concerns about airport security. Airports of Thailand (AoT) says it is reviewing security after the incident.

AoT president Chana U-sathaporn said the fact that a man was able to penetrate the airport compound showed there were problems with security at Suvarnabhumi.

He has ordered changes including more patrol officers, more frequent patrols, better lighting, strict searches and improved surveillance equipment.

''What happened reflected a weakness in the security system. This should prompt state agencies to be more careful,'' AM Chana said. He denied the arrested Burmese intruder was a terrorist.

Jaturongkhapol Sodmanee, Suvarnabhumi airport deputy director for operations, identified the Burmese man as Soe Aung, 27. The man entered the airport compound from its western boundary separated from the adjacent King Kaew road by three layers of barbed wire fences.

The intruder boarded a Turkish Airlines plane in parking bay 502 by climbing a ladder.

An engineer found him on a passenger seat aboard the plane while making pre-flight checks and handed him over to police.

Mr Jaturongkhapol said the western and eastern runways were patrolled by vehicle. He would increase the frequency of patrols and get better lighting and more barbed wire fences installed.

The Burmese man was a jail escapee from Malaysia and had planned to go to a third country through Thailand.

He has been charged with trespassing, police said.