Rules for spacing on final

[561]

This question goes to any controller working at an approach unit with a radar separation of less than 5 nm. How is final approach spacing regulated at your unit? What rules apply? For how long is radar-separation required? How is the transfer from APP to TWR regulated?

Many thanks to anyone contributing!

Approach controller.

[Brian81]

Sorry to be the first to be one that says this, but you sound like a journalist. Unfortuntely everyone has to watch their back on here as quotes are taken out of context and used in SHOCK HORROR headlines.

With the current fog situation and the disruption its causing, your post looks even more like a carrot dangling for a newspaper 'story' [sic]

You sign off "approach controller." shouldnt you know this stuff? lol

All the best whoever you are. :ok:

Traaaaaaaaaaaa

[av8boy]

I agree. It's really quite simple and elegant, but your question sounds like you're churning, looking for trouble where it doesn't exist...

[Il Duce]

How is it regulated? Randomly, of course. Or, sometimes, I just say to the pilots, "First come, first served. Let's go and damn the separation!"

[anotherthing]

Separation?? -

Sometimes happens at TC when the milk in the coffee has gone off.

[sikeano]

just like seperating the red sea easy
but if you are genuinue chap then the trouble in england airports due to fog is not for the incoming.outbound but for the ground movement of the vehicles/aircraft therefore it is suspended at the mo
:ok:

[561]

First of all, I'm not a journalist. I signed my post with my real job, which is in Norway. Shouldn't I know this then? Well, not really. I work at a unit where separation on final is a big issue. Our minima is 3 nm, also on final. We have "range and bearing lines" that gives the distance between two aircraft with 0,1 nm accuracy. Tower has the same tool and they provide radar-service to aircraft on final in addition to visual separation.

To my knowledge the most common rule is that spacing on final should not be under 3 or 2,5 nm miles unless tower has visual contact. However I've visited units that in no way monitor this accurately. Is visual contact by tower taken for granted? At what distance is traffic sent to tower? Some units provide separation to 4 nm, from there it's up to the pilot.

The reason for asking is that we seem to have complicated this to much at my unit. I know separation on final is not an issue many places. I just wonder how they regulate it formally. So, I'm not asking for how you really do this. I'm asking for the written rules. The situation in London is of no interest to me. I get more than enough fog where I work. So to all I may have offended with my question, that was never the intent. Please accept my apologies. I was simple trying to find out what your books said, not how you do this in real life.:)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Hi 561. Sorry for the silly people!

Here in the UK at major airfields the approach radar unit sequences traffic on to final approach applying spacing agreed with the tower. Usually this is a "standard" figure but the tower can request greater spacing if required. For example, loss of runway turn-offs due to WIP or u/s light fittings may require extra spacing on final approach. VORTEX separation also has to be applied by radar.

ATC often imposes speed control to 4DME and then the pilot takes over. Transfer of communication to the tower can be at any range on final approach but the radar controller remains responsible for separation. Many tower controllers in the UK (even at Heathrow) are not radar qualified so they cannot provide a true radar service to traffic on final approach. Some airfields have equipment using radar-derived information to warn if an aircraft is badly positioned on final approach and tower controllers will warn the pilot..

The radars for sequencing usually show the extended runway centrelines (the ILS localiser track), with marks at 2nm intervals out to around 10-20nm. Controllers rely on their experience to achieve the required spacing. Some radars do have the facility to measure distance between aircraft very accurately but it is not generally used.

Hope that helps..

[Friio4]

561 : Dont see why you should have to apologise. Quite a reasonable enquiry I thought to which HD has given you a resonable answer.

[av8boy]

We're not silly. It's just that Jerricho gets us all worked-up and sarcastic... :ouch: