Youngest 747 captain ?

[acb4u]

....in Europe?

[brakedwell]

John Rigatone, sorry, Traviata of QANTAS?

[NigelOnDraft]

Don't know...

You should get some interesting replies if you ask about the A310 though...

NoD

[scroggs]

Virgin has certainly had a couple of 747 captains in their late 20s, although I think all are over 30 now.

[sharpshot]

When SIA took delivery of their first two 747-200's they had a local Capt. who was 28.

[lurkio]

I believe Virgin had one who was 27 when he got his command.

[thx1138]

I know, not Europe but I know for a fact that UPS had a 26 year old 747 captain. Read an article about it. He had started in a quick expanding company and ended up as a young captain on the DC-8. When UPS bought them out, he brought over lots of seniority somehow and made a "sideways" move to the Seven Four. Probably still on it. Must have a good schedule at a young age.

[bigbeerbelly]

I think thx1138, is on the right track. I have a friend who is a 747 CA at UPS who told me that the number one guy on the seniority list got a waiver from the FAA to fly the 747 because he had not yet turned 23. He exceeded all other requirements for the ATPL though. He has been there since day one.

[IMMELMAN]

When I flew in Germany - Werner Brautigam was a 47 Capt - he was about 28 - in 1970/71 - tragically, he was killed whilst positioning back from Cologne to Frankfurt in a taxi - the driver fell asleep!!! What price FTL's? ( This was Deutsche Lufthansa )

[lightoutandarmed]

hi to everyone...

just wondering how old or how young the youngest 747 captain is in the world today. i heard that in KLM they have a 28 year old -400 skipper.

any comments?

thanks

[cold canuck]

28years old -200 Capt (as far as I know)

[FLEXJET]

Years ago, there was a 25 year old Captain flying freighter 747s for an US airline. He was a DC8 Captain at 23...

[akerosid]

I remember reading that one of Tony Ryan's sons qualified as a 747 captain, flying wet leased acft for Air Lanka, when it operated the type a few years back.

[2FLYEU]

.........A 23 years old 737-200/300 capt on the Airline I was flying for.
He Started at 18 as a F/o.....back in 1988
I have to say pilots flying with him said he was a damn good pilot.
Crm wise and handling wise.:ok:
I've flown with him when he was 29.Very good guy!

:p

[BoarderDude]

We have a guy that was 26 when promoted 2 years ago on the 737-800... Had some 25 yr olds as well, but since requirements changed, that isn't going to happen anymore!

Anyway, I guess that is not that special compared to these other stories...

[Rocco in Budapest]

Wasn´t the skipper on the CAL -200 Liege overrun last summer 27?

[747FOCAL]

My Uncle made 747 Captain at 24 back some years ago and now flies for Northwest. :p

[akerosid]

It probably follows from this thread that there are pilots who, having made 747 captain quite young, have been flying the type for many years.

Any idea who holds the hours record for 747 flying (including as FO)? Is there any record of this.

I know VS has a few youngish 747 captains, but since it's a relatively young airline, some of these are still quite young, but there must be some pilots who gained their 4th stripe on 747s back in the '80s and are still flying the type?

(Incidentally, to do the old 747 records to death, any idea what aircraft currently holds the high time record? I know TWA had more than a few -100s with over the 100k, but since most Classics have now retired, I was just curious as to who might have the record. Some of KLM's -200/SUDs must have had close to the 100k mark.)

[747FOCAL]

cycles hours
SOUTHERN AIR 747- 200B 20639 116643

ALL NIPPON AIRWAYS 747SR 37447 44759


:}

[Rocco in Budapest]

Wasn´t the skipper on the CAL -200 Liege overrun last summer 27?

[bizflyer]

I had a BA flight to jfk (744) a few months back and was amazed when i saw the f/o, can't have been more than 25/26 or at least he was very fresh faced. Sorry not terribly factual but I'd be interested to know the age of the youngest BA f/o, I'd guess the guy I saw was him.

[catch 22]

Don't know if it was a record but I made 747-200 captain in 1982 at age 31. At that time it was the "top of the line" aircraft.

[apilot2014]

Nope. I checked out in 1984 at 29. About 5 years later another of our pilots checked out at, I believe, 25 years old.

[Hotel Mode]

AFAIK Ba's youngest FO somewhere around 21/22, youngest 744 FO about 24.

[expedite_climb]

Not unusual really given they start as cadets at 19, and the course is just over a year.

DOnt work for BA, but I started on the 757 at 22, (but looking 12!), although the youngest on my course the others werent a lot older.

[VFE]

Wonder how old the youngest USAF B52 skipper was on the recent war on Iraq? My guess is 23.

[catch 22]

Apilot 2014

To make a proper comparision one must consider the year and age. In the early 70's very few 747 captains were under 50. As more aircraft came online the ages dropped. That you were 29 in 1984 has to be taken only in that year, as someone today may be only 24. Furthermore I think there is a difference between a major international passenger company and a freighter. Which side did you come from?

[AIRWAY]

In Portugal the youngest FO is a very nice girl ( 20 years old ) flying B737 for a Portuguese Airline, mind you her father is the OPS director of that Airline. :rolleyes:

[oligoe]

I saw as well once in a magazine a L-188 electra captain for atlantic cargo who was 22 years old. I then realized i was really late !

[ferrydude]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the infamous Barry Seal (TWA)

[expedite_climb]

go on then ferrydude...

[maharaja]

you guys will be surprised to learn that in India commercial jets are flown by CPL holders with the minimum hours, which they have logged on the Pushpak aircraft and on Cessna 152's, which are the aircrafts flown in the flying clubs. As a result, with the induction of these people into all the commercial airlines in India, there are a whole bunch of young commanders, some of which have got their command on the 737 at the age of 22. so, age as far as Im, concerned is a state of mind for command. Its the experiece that counts and the ones on type are welcomed, especially when its from the right seat to the left.

[Jerry O Springer]

Y'know guys, I run a recruitment agency and if you sign up for my enhanced conditions oy'll take em all ages, cradle to grave B'Jesus joseph & Mary!

[West Coast]

I would put the youngest BUFF aircraft commander at 25/26 plus.
Thats doing some optimistic probables. If I had to bet money, I would say the youngest would be 28 or older.

[bigbeerbelly]

A while back I was told the number 1 seniority pilot at UPS was the youngest B747 captain ever. He is the only person given an age waiver to hold an ATP under the age of 23.

Not first hand, but interesting story when I heard it.

BBB

[ATPMBA]

Worked for an air taxi firm years ago. To be Captain on a Lear Jet 24/24/25 you needed to be age 30 or older and have at least 5,000 hours.

[Young_Turk]

i am being upgraded to P1 on the 737 in my airline in india. ill be in the thick of things (p1 sim training) while i celebrate my 23rd bday (in 20 days)....
But i totally agree that its a state of mind. After flying the Bee for over 3 years, its all about thinking mature and systematic in the deck.

And whoever makes the cut, makes the cut...... nomatter wat age/sex/culture....... as long as the regulations allow.

[ElNino]

Most impressive of all were the 19 y.o. Lancaster/Fortress commanders all those years ago. And the 18 y.o. fighter pilots with 20 hours on type before battle. The mind boggles.

[earnest]

Guy Gibson earned his DSO at age 21 on Bomber Command’s first raid of the war. He was a Wing Commander at 23, received the VC after the Dambuster raids at age 24 and was killed in action aged 26.

None of which, had he lived, would have qualified him to be a captain on Learjets at ATPMBA’s firm.

[F900EX]

My friend here in Boulder, Colorado was flying Regional Jets for 2.5 years. He had 750 hrs PIC on the RJ. He left to fly 747-200 series right seat. He made captain 7 months later after only 250 hours in the right seat of the 74 ! He is still only 28 years old...

Is this a record ?

[atiuta]

Don't know, nor do I care about a record but it will be one steep learning curve.

[airbus2boeing]

Don't know but I can tell who's the oldest. :}

[jayceehi]

I know of some 28 year old 747 Captains but they have a pretty solid background and lot more than 250 hours in the right seat.....
Lucky it is a 200 with an engineer to help!!!!
Cheers

[Bearcat]

cathal ryan...son of tony ryan (ryanair) got a LHS ticket on 747s younger than 28 yrs?????

[A2QFI]

My friend here in Boulder, Colorado was flying Regional Jets for 2.5 years. He had 750 hrs PIC on the RJ. He left to fly 747-200 series right seat. He made captain 7 months later after only 250 hours in the right seat of the 74 ! He is still only 28 years old...

Is this a record ?

It may be a record but it is very frightening too!

[belowMDA]

There was a thread about this some years back, I seem to recall the age of 26 came up. Pretty young, but it is about leadership, knowledge and experience.

[Continental-520]

I seem to recall a topic like this one in the past too. In association with that, I can remember someone saying that there was a 24yr. old B744 Captain with an internal Japanese carrier, however I cannot verify whether this is in fact true.

Believable, given the nature of the industry up there, but only just.


520.

[lambert]

Wonder how old the youngest A380 Captain is?

[hapzim]

Captain on a 380 or a regional commuter, that person still has the responsibility for his crew and passengers at any age. Takes the right type of qualities, skills and experience, so regards to all who achieve this position and achive a safe flying career. :ok:

[ATC Watcher]

For ICAO an ATPL Capt should have 1500h PIC ninimum if my memory is correct.

But on the other hand, in some countries (:E ) they give an F16 with tactical weapons to 19 years old kids , so I prefer a 28 years old on a 747 full of e-bay boxes.

[MrBernoulli]

When you end up in places like Latacunga, Bogota, Kinshasa, Eldoret, Curitiba, Maastricht etc. at max landing weight and crappy weather it's nice to have some time in the RHS to acclimatize. I reckon I couldn't even have understood some of the ATC gibberish in some of the places we fly to if I hadn't been there a couple times already. BI


I didn't see any destinations in the USA in your post. The complete gibberish they sometimes talk there needs translating - talking in local acronyms, abbreviated frequencies, at the speed of light, in a soporific monotone.

[stator vane]

perhaps, but the only thing that really catches my attention is along the lines of what have i been able to accomplish, not what others have. that's all i can really affect.

[F900EX]

QUOTE>'d be more interested to know what type of flying he'll be doing, rather than his total hours or his hours on type. If he can stick with some type of "domestic" flying (similar to the manner in which the 747 is sometimes used in Japan) he may be able to feel reasonably comfortable in the LHS with his limited experience. I, for one, would have sh..<QUOTE


He is flying worldwide and not just is the U.S. HKG, Tokyo, Dubai etc. Of course he does have a loadmaster and the engineer. Nevertheless big iron for a young gun.

[flying 2 low]

Surprised no one has brought up the (unconfirmed) story of the 25 yr old 747 CA @ UPS, don't know what era; I've heard a lot of talk about very young flight crews- including the CA- at SAA in the '70's, and I'd be surprised if it wasn't true.
There are probably hundreds of people who've made captain on the 74 before the age of 30; plane's been around a long time.:hmm:

[alexban]

LHS with that limited experience,on a 747 classic?..:= ..maybe if he's the son of the owner,and even then he'll fly only with TRI's..
You said 2.5 years on the RJ..that is around 1500 hrs total ,from which 750 cpt..that could be done if the company is very low on pilots..
After that going to 747,and in 250 hrs flying everywhere in the world,as a cpt ,with maybe 2000-2500 hrs total time..I really doubt that :hmm:
Either he is b:mad: you,or we will hear about him pretty soon:} ...the real life it's a bit different then the FS:E

[KC135777]

28 is not a record, from the info I heard years ago.......

...When UPS started their own flight department in late '87 and '88, one of the new UPS 747 captains (acquired) was 27 years old. The very firm, militaristic flight management at UPS harassed him and might have even fired him for a short period. Don't know the specific issues involved, but that was the jist of the story......

so, if he went to UPS as a captain at age 27, he might have even been younger when he initially checked out/typed on the 747? not sure which contract carrier he was originally from.......

[KC135777]

Surprised no one has brought up the (unconfirmed) story of the 25 yr old 747 CA @ UPS, don't know what era;

I just did...hmmm 25, huh....didn't hear that he was that young (at UPS anyways).

KC135777

[Fly747]

I seem to remember People Express having a 26yr old Captain.
I, on the other hand, am rapidly approaching the other end of the spectrum!

[Dualbleed]

18-19 years old, get CPL and instructs for 600 hours
19-20 800 hrs. RHS ATR 72
20-21 800 hrs. LHS ATR 72
21-22 800 hrs. LHS 737
22-23 800 hrs. RHS 737
23-24 800 hrs. RHS 747
24-25 800 hrs. LHS 747

Thats about 5000 hours before getting into the LHS 747.

Can be done.:ok:

[Loose rivets]

I seem to remember People Express having a 26yr old Captain.
I, on the other hand, am rapidly approaching the other end of the spectrum!

An aside I know, and I don't know how old she was, but Lyn Ripplemyer Sp? Sp? was the first woman 74 skipper was she not? Mrs LR spent some time up front with her on a People flight.

[Whitehatter]

Didn't the Sultan of Brunei fly LHS on his private 747SP for a while? I doubt it's the same as an airline type ticket for the purposes of this thread but he was pretty young when flying his own metal

:}

[F4F]

c'mon you guys flying the 4 engined behemoth... do us a favor and tell all the punters here that the 747 is the easiest aircraft to fly and land, so were's the big deal :zzz:

(another of those biggest, youngest or best American bedstories :hmm: )

[Ignition Override]

The question might be, does a very young age and a quite superb ability to process and learn aviation data create the best ability to fly as 747 Captain?
Or does the size of the aircraft and its image also motivate the youngest and best pilots who have a burning desire, to check out as 747 or 1011, DC-10/MD-11 Captain?

Airline managements have for many decades exploited pilots by using the impressive widebody-jet type-rating as a lure to motivate pilots (young and single?) to ignore market forces in order to have the credential on their resume/CV. Maybe it is the ultimate "Chick-Magnet"?

The First Officer on my last trip said that he would have been a 'twenty-something' 747 Captain, had he remained with his previous company-SAT. He also flew the A-300 as FO.

During a push-back about a week ago, he was astute enough, perhaps with a finely-honed sixth sense survival instinct, to suspiciously look at the right wing, and notice/check that the refueling panel door was hanging open.
He said to me "Stop the push-back". This was a first for me as Captain.
He asked the Wing-Walker whether everything looked normal. The Wingwalker said "yes"-even with the door open! (He had previously been a fueler at the FBO).

Does this result of "outsourcing" have your attention?
Well, he told me that at one of our largest HUB AIRPORTS, a de-icing crew had de-iced one wing-but NOT the OTHER WING.
Interesting? Who noticed and notified the c0ckp1t ?
Passengers and crew, if this is true, might soon die if nothing changes.
He told me that heard this first hand from one of the two pilots who was there. Unrestrained (barely regulated) American capitalism at its best...

[F900EX]

c'mon you guys flying the 4 engined behemoth... do us a favor and tell all the punters here that the 747 is the easiest aircraft to fly and land, so were's the big deal :zzz:
(another of those biggest, youngest or best American bedstories :hmm: )

Funny you should say that as my friend in question claims that the 747 flys like any of his previous mounts (Falcon and RJ 700).. Reckons the transition is o.k.

[australiancalou]

I used to be one of these young Jumbo's Cpt (getting old now) and see no shame but no glory about it... maybe only little luck. The only thing I would say about it is that I would have prefer to stay a little bit more on the right hand seat in a Major than being upgraded a little bit too early in a charter with a Major's F/O salary.
If any young fellow here accepts the advice of an ex-rookie: Target the Majors and forget the idea of being the best the youngest the...It's only consolation prize:{ .
best to all:ok:

[late developer]

Unrestrained (barely regulated) American capitalism at its best...It's everywhere.

Not sure what qualities are required in order to notice the errant details arising from the unrestrained stuff.

I imagine that from the LHS if you are tasked up and even the slightest bit anxious not to be seen to make a mistake, it may be quite easy to miss something non-routine, no matter how old or how young you are. An experienced subconscious might save the day but I for one, am not convinced.

On the other hand from the right hand seat as a relaxed observer with a capacity to double-check everything with your experienced eye coupled necessarily with a judgemental mindset (which might not be attractive!), you might easily notice errant details, and that same relaxed, judgemental, confident mindset allows such things to be pointed out very quickly and no mistake ("STOP the pushback!!!).

Put that same guy in the LHS and distract him with routine workload and one or two non-routine tasks and watch his spare capacity to notice the non-routine detail diminish quickly.

I imagine young commanders recent to the job, put alongside known experienced F/Os will be most prone to task overload unless they are very smart and confident leader-type cookies indeed. But then the F/O can make up for it.

I have no (imagined) idea of how a young commander alongside a similar-aged F/O works out in practice except that in that case the cockpit may be missing a certain je ne sais quoi.

(I imagine!)

[mach2.5]

i v heard from a flying school lecture, from south africa.

came out of the airforce at about 20, got into the 707 and became a captain on that, and when 747 first came out, he was nominated as a captian at age around 25.

according to what he said, did all the conversion training and what not, simulator ride and stuff, and the first time he got on the real plane, it was the first time all the passengers got on as well, so everybody including the crews were going " well, what a big machine...."

unforunately he smoked a lot, had a heart attack at around 26, lost his medical, and never flew again.....

[max autobrakes]

How about the oldest 747 captain?
Qantas would probably win that one.
Let alone one of the oldest 747's as well!

[11Fan]

I seem to remember People Express having a 26yr old Captain.
I, on the other hand, am rapidly approaching the other end of the spectrum!

Fly747,

I know of whom you speak. Without breaking his anonymity, the last time I saw him (around 1988-89), we were neighbors in Long Beach, California and he was flying for Delta. I often wonder what happened to him.

When I was reading this thread, Catch 22 said he was 31 when he was driving a 742 and I thought it might be him but I remember this guy being younger, even to the point that there was some plaque at People Express noting him as being the youngest 747 Captain and I’m pretty sure he was in his mid 20’s.

11Fan

[parabellum]

Having once been involved, albeit in a very minor capacity, in the assessment of F/Os approaching captain, I noticed that the major factor in the RHS to LHS transition was the mental transition. There is no doubt that anyone can fly the aircraft equally well from either seat but pre-command training comes in to it's own when the candidate is given the opportunity to be exposed to some of the off-the-cuff stuff that can occur, particularly down route, that requires the bit extra that captains need to have sewn up in their back pocket, thinking outside the square, as it is sometimes called.
Given the opportunity to experience some out of the ordinary experiences from a captains point of view and given the opportunity to make the decisions, does wonders for improving the aspirants confidence. Should the supervising captain choose to vary the decision then he must explain why, in detail.
Captains can be trained to be captains BUT the basic material must be there in the first place, if that material is missing, such as the ability to make decisions based on all the information available, the ability not to get too flustered in non-normals situation, etc. etc. but to hold the whole flight together, follow the checklist and make decisions based on common sense, the aircrafts ability, the facilities available at your chosen destination, utilisation of the entire crew to the best advantage etc. etc. and on, on, the list is endless etc. that is what a captain has to produce to a greater or lesser degree. Some of the above can be taught but not all, some of it has to be innate and be natural, only some of it can be gained by experience.
It is a myth to assume that a command failure is the company's fault, there are people out there who won't make it, there are people out there who would make it under a less demanding system, bigger budget, more demand and less supply etc.
Dealing with an emergency of any sort on an aircraft half way across the Pacific at the dead of night is not likely to be the same as dealing with a similar emergency half way across Europe but a captain who has served his time on both domestic and long haul and then gets his LHS long haul should be, by experience, reasonably well prepared.
My point? err.......... well yes, nothing wrong with a young captain just so long that he knows his stuff, his aeroplane, has innate command ability and consequently the respect of his crew.
As the Middle East and Fragrant Harbour forums will show the idea of what is a reasonable time between gaining one's licence and gaining ones first command vary a whole lot. I have flown with people who, given the time and training and money, would eventually make captain, I have flown with people who would never over come the 'pressure' of the added responsibility but would forever fly the aeroplane beautifully.
Command is not a Divine right and not all aspects can be taught, but, generally, the greater the age usually means the greater the experience!