Working as a team of 3?

[725308]

Hi,

At area centres, such as Swanwick, do ATCOs work in teams of 3, with a planner and an assistant in addition to themselves?

I have seen pictures of the Swanwick ops room on titles such as the ATC books by Ian Allan publishing and I thought ATCOs all work on their own as they each have their own 'workspace' as i put it, with a radar screen, keyboard etc?

Thank you in advance for any replies. :)

[1985]

The sector team at swanwick consists of tactical, planner and assistant each with their own radar display and keyboard.

At other centres they do it differently depending on their operational requirements.

[725308]

Thank you for the speedy reply, very grateful ;)

By tactical, do you mean the controller/ATCO? And he/she works with the planner and assistant?

Could I also just ask what each of their tasks are?

[BDiONU]

By tactical, do you mean the controller/ATCO? And he/she works with the planner and assistant?
Could I also just ask what each of their tasks are?
Tactical (an ATCO) speaks to/controls the aircraft, Planner (an ATCO) plans the levels/routes in and out, ATSA puts paper strips in holders and places them in front of T and does reroutes. ATSA task/numbers will reduce significantly when Swanwick moves onto a paperless platform using fully electronic flightstrips.

BD

[Lon More]

At a modern :} Centre, where paper strips disappeared some 20 years ago. Executive provides radar service;Co-ordinator plans traffic flow, accepts and makes revisions and co-ordination as required (estimates are normally passed by Data Link to adjacent units); in peak traffic an Assistant may be provided who monitors the frequency and the traffic in general, can make updates to the display, and generally acts as a bac-up in case the others miss something. Aditionally a Sector Input Operator, who checks the raw flight data as sent by CFPS . enters re-routes and keeps everyone supplied with coffee

[BDiONU]

At a modern :} Centre, where paper strips disappeared some 20 years ago. Executive provides radar service;Co-ordinator plans traffic flow, accepts and makes revisions and co-ordination as required (estimates are normally passed by Data Link to adjacent units); in peak traffic an Assistant may be provided who monitors the frequency and the traffic in general, can make updates to the display, and generally acts as a bac-up in case the others miss something. Aditionally a Sector Input Operator, who checks the raw flight data as sent by CFPS . enters re-routes and keeps everyone supplied with coffee
Blimey! 4 people to run 1 sector! Does not seem very modern to me.

BD

[Lookatthesky]

At a proper centre which still uses strips, we work autonomously, getting by with our razor sharp wit and our charm ;)

[Lon More]

Blimey! 4 people to run 1 sector!
Blimey, the force is weak in this one:\

Read my post again; up to four, maximum three contollers plus a FDA (ATSA to you) in some of Europe's busiest airspace (Maastricht UAC)

razor sharp wit and our charm Both of which were in short supply the last time I had to work with a certain Centre situated on the English Riviera:}

[BDiONU]

Blimey, the force is weak in this one:\
Read my post again; up to four, maximum three contollers plus a FDA (ATSA to you) in some of Europe's busiest airspace (Maastricht UAC)
London Centre is pretty busy (and complex) but without getting into a willie waving contest all sectors run with 2 ATCO's and 1 ATSA. With the introduction of iFACTS in late 2008 the numbers should reduce to 2 ATCO's and monitor values should increase. Thats what I'd call modern, using technology to give more tools to the ATCO to assist them in moving traffic.

BD

[chevvron]

And in the late '60s up to Feb '71, each LATCC sector worked with a 'D' man (he did the strips) a radar man, and an assistant who provided/updated a display via CCTV to the radar man; that equals 2 controllers and one assistant therefore the sytem hasn't really changed has it!!
This system was of course, still used by civil sections at ATCRU's until they closed.

[Lon More]

each LATCC sector worked with a 'D' man
Don't forget the "A" side


BDIONU: I wasn't willy waving. The Maastricht Sectors are normally manned by 2 controllers. ( In the past, sometimes only by one) but when busy there is the possibility to provide a third brain, just in case one of the others misses something. It's not a question of being "modern", it's just an extra safety net.

[Impi]

BDIONU

Don't worry about Lon MORE mate, he needed the "extra brain" cos he was asleep most 'the time:zzz:

cheap shot I know.. :=

[BDiONU]

And in the late '60s up to Feb '71, each LATCC sector worked with a 'D' man (he did the strips) a radar man, and an assistant who provided/updated a display via CCTV to the radar man; that equals 2 controllers and one assistant therefore the sytem hasn't really changed has it!!
Except it moves about 3 times as much traffic :}

BD

[scaccatco]

[quote=Lon More;3024790]Blimey, the force is weak in this one:\

Read my post again; up to four, maximum three contollers plus a FDA (ATSA to you) in some of Europe's busiest airspace (Maastricht UAC)

Look you're okay for Europeans, put your willy back in your trousers, or maybe one
of your team can do it for you.

[725308]

Hey everyone,

Thanks to all of the members that replied :ok:

Didn't mean for this to get into a bit of banter like it has on these latest posts :} sorry!

Cheers ;)

[millerman]

Usually these days in Maastricht it is only possible to have 3 in a sector when it is a bit quieter and we close a sector.Then the FDA's are hiding behind their screens reading the paper:D
When it gets busy it is usually all hands to the pumps and open as many sectors as possible and we don't have enough staff to have 3 on the sector (only 2 ) and the FDA's are still reading their papers:oh: A bit ironic really!

Enjoy retirement Lon it only gets worse here (with forced team changes):sad:

[Lon More]

Millerman - I stand corrected. keep working, you're paying my pension:O

[chevvron]

Of course the present system at LACC evolved from the 'executive and support' controller idea devised for terminal control sectors way back in the late '70s; the consoles were purchased and languished at WD but were never installed; whatever happened to them I wonder?

[Arkady]

I believe they became the college and EU simulators

[wiccan]

When I did "Pennine", it wos "Me...and 'im"
bb

[Shitsu_Tonka]

On subject, it i s probably worth mentioning to anyone considering the advertised jobs in sunny Australia that we use a Eurocat system with electronic strips. The original concept was apparently one planner/assist to every 3(?) executive positions.

In reality we have none.

The executive also does all co-ord, planning, entering flight plans, FIS, and what we call "feeding the elephant" - basically a lot of keyboard "heads down" time to make the Eurocat do what it is supposed to and stop creating noises.

There are some RAS/RIS positions which can assist the busier TMA sectors.

Our traffic levels are probably nothing like you are talking about of course - however some of the sectors are massive with jet aircraft cruising within the one sector for a couple of hours.

I guess it is all a matter of perspective.

It's not better or worse - just a different type of being busy, e.g. generated more by the way things are done than the traffic itself. (Apparently it is very efficient - acording to a Eurocontrol study - hmmm)

The concept of training as an assist and then going on to be an ATCO seems like a good one to me - but our system architecture here will no longer allow for it - welcome to automation - that requires manual input!