Avro Vulcan XJ823

[Lancasterman]

This survivor is in amazing condition inside. Her paintwork worn and faded belies just how complete she is inside! I wonder how much work would be involved in getting her powered up even just the aapp??
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=65855

[Pontius Navigator]

Interesting internal shots of 823. The Decca 72m has been replaced by the earlier GreenSatin Mk 2. The HRS Navs Heading Unit (the big wheel) is there but the blanking plate was where the HRS control unit had been IIRC.

Can't remember the nav rad's arm panel but suspect it might have been panel ER given the 2 banks of fuses but that is really stretching the grey cells.

[Lancasterman]

I wonder why the radarwas replaced with the earlier version?

[Pontius Navigator]

They could have acquired a green sation to fill the hole. The Decca Doppler 72m was also a fit in the Sea King.

The blanking plate is in fact where the TACAN used to be. The HRS controller is to the left of the NHU.

The armament panel is indeed Panel ER for the WE177B.

[Chairborne 09.00hrs]

Scampton, June '81:


http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/John_txic666/Vulcan/XJ823Scn3.jpg

[BEagle]

In happier days indeed!

Sunny Scampton back when the UK still had an air force. Nice to see the 35 badge on the fin again!

[ZH875]

Interesting internal shots of 823. The Decca 72m has been replaced by the earlier GreenSatin Mk 2. That is definately the Decca Doppler 72M Indicator Control Unit. IIRC the Satin had a bank of neon indicator bulbs.

[forget]

:confused: :confused: Looks like Green Satin to these eyes.

http://john-dillon.co.uk/V-Force/green_satin.html

[ZH875]

Having arrived on the Vulcan in 1979, well after DD72M had replaced Green Satin, that is definately the Decca 72 Control unit, I only did GS (or Blue Silk - the over water version) at Cosford on the Shacklebomber 3.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/ZH875/BS.png
Blue Silk, the Green Satin had similar control unit. This is similar to the Decca Doppler 72, but there are no Red or Green lights etc.

[Pontius Navigator]

It is Green Satin MARK 2. The mark 2 introduced the rather amber and green lights thus mucking up a reasonable design.

[ZH875]

Looks like the Techies disagree with the operators.

My money is still with DD72.

see: http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/andy_leitch_vol6/navplot.htm Here the box is described as Decca Doppler 72.

and: http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/l_braithwaite/back_panel.htm Again refer to Decca Doppler

[forget]

From http://john-dillon.co.uk/V-Force/green_satin.html

Diagram of the front panel of the Green Satin doppler, taken from my OCU Notes. J Dillon

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/GreenSatin_panel.jpg

In the diagram above, showing the front panel there are two light indicators on the repeater; a green lamp showed that the unit was functionally OK, producing good output, an orange lamp meant that the system had gone to memory mode. If the system was operating over a smooth sea surface then the radar returns would sometimes not be adequate and the system would freeze with the last recorded groundspeed and drift. It was important for the Nav Plotter to be very aware of the state of these indicators as Green Satin was an input to the GPI6, and so all position information from the navigation system would be effected by the state of the Green Satin. If it were in memory mode for long then the position information would become progressively more inaccurate depending on the error between true groundspeed and drift, and the last accurate readings frozen in the Green Satin memory. If the unit remained in memory mode for more than a few minutes then the Plotter would need to use other methods to measure drift, if the aircraft was in a position where radar fixes were possible (over or near land features) then the system could be corrected by inputting frequent radar updates to the GPI6. Any tendency for Green Satin to go to memory could be guaranteed to draw a curse from the Nav Plotter, as it would always mean increased workload for him, and some inaccuracy in his route navigation. To help with the sensitivity needed between over land and over sea operation there is a land/sea switch bottom right allowing the Plotter to change the selection.

[Pontius Navigator]

The amber M light illuminated when the doppler went to memory and the T light illuminated when it was tracking.

The upper limit of the GS was 750 (maybe 700) kts and was reached at least once. Can't remember the Captain's name but the plotter was Tony Court. They were flying from Goose to Waddo and realised they had a stonking jet tail wind. They went for it and did a high mach run across the pond.

The flight was IRO 3hr 15min and they beat customs by a good hour and a half :).

The DD72M, IIRC, had an upper speed of about 1000 kts and also a digital speed readout I think. It may have had both digital and analogue speed displays.

[Pontius Navigator]

http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/l_braithwaite/back_panel.htm Again refer to Decca Doppler

Ah, that explains the blanking plate in 823. It was where ther squeezed the Loran C for the MRR role. Not the Tacan after all which in the above link is now immediately to the right of the Loran C.

The Loran C, like the Tacan, was a generic fit thus the box could be swapped to other types, including the Victor.

Any chance of merging this thread with Did you Fly the Vulcan?

[threeputt]

see: http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/andy_leitch_vol6/navplot.htm Here the box is described as Decca Doppler 72.


Definatley DD 72M, that is the very lovely Maurice P*******n, earstwhile Flt Cdr Air 44 (R) Sqn. I am sat on his left and Pete L****n on his right.

3 Putts

[HTB]

Log book shows that XJ823 was on 27 Sqn's inventory from April 1977 - I have it's first sortie as a 10 min delivery flight from Waddo to Scampers (captain - Wg Cdr Willis). It was still with 27 in December 1980, just before I was posted; 2.10 co-pilot check, captain - Wg Cdr Pearson.

The blanking plate may be where the Loran C was fitted (memory weak on this as I did not spend much time looking over the plotter's shoulder, mostly head was resting on the radar camera). I don't think the bombers had Loran; it was fitted to 27 'frames to provide the plotter withy something to do while we were out of range of most other navaids/land on all those long interesting MRR sorties (not to mention the other role).

[Lancasterman]

She is in amazing condition inside and surprisinlgy nothing? removed by the MOD??:confused:

[Pontius Navigator]

By the time they were disposed of there would have been a more than adequate supply of bits for the Victor where bits fitted and also similar legacy items like pillar lamps as fitted to Lancaster, Shackleton, Vulcan and Nimrod - yup Avro must have had a hangar full of these lamps - bakelite with a GVI logo even.

I have had a closer look at the internal photo. The pillar lamp can be seen clearly to the top right of the weapons control panel, if you increase the brightness. At the same time you can see that the actual WE177 controller has been removed although the mounting box is still in place.

Playing with the image editor also shows that the doppler is identical to the Green Satin as shown by Forget.

[FJJP]

Threeputt

Any idea where PL is these days? I had the good fortune to have him on my crew at one stage - one helluva professional AEO!

Pity about the OQs, though...

[Flatiron]

Great to see the old 35 Sqn 'skyhook' fin motif again. Still have the flying overall badge somewhere at home.

[BEagle]

Moi aussi, oh captain, my captain!

[FJJP]

Yeah, the fin badges were very stylish - all of them. When 617 was about to transfer the number to Tornados, the OC Desig visited the Sqn and asked if there was one thing we would like to see on the new jet. The resounding cry of 'fin badge' went up. He agreed he liked it and promised it would be used on the GR.

However, the first Sqn was to form in Germany and some PC muppet decided that it would be politically insensitive to have 617 Sqn based in Germany [why, I don't know - other Sqns based there caused far more damage]. The long and the short of it was that the first GR Sqn was changed to 9 Sqn, and we never saw the Boss desig of the second [617] Sqn to form. Hence the 3 red strikes round the roundle and on top of the fin.

Pity...

[BEagle]

When I did an Eder Dam low level 'hello' in the F-4 on the 40th anniversary of the raid, the folk on the castle were seen to be waving happily.....


....I think.

Then we went to say hello to the Moehne....:ok:

However, on return to Gutersloh, the SNavO went rather pale. It seems that we weren't supposed to fly past the dams at low level..:hmm:

Good job we only did it 3 times, I guess!

[Evanelpus]

Just checked the old log book, 823, three stitches in a wound encountered whilst changing valves in the hydraulic panel.

Why don't people turn over the ends when they wirelock? Ggrrr, moan over!!

[ZH875]

A view inside a 50 Sqn aircraft, with the DD72 bottom left. Compare this with the diagram and picture of 823.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/ZH875/RearCockpit.jpg

[peppermint_jam]

This thread makes such a change from the rest of the doom and gloom vulcan related threads that have been on pprune throughout 2006. The death of 391, the nails being driven into 603's coffin, the state of 607 and the 558 project coming so damn close to being cancelled. I am pleased to hear that this lady is in good shape and being looked after so well. Would be great if ground power of even APU power coulld be applied to her, I know that this would probably never happen because the health and safety gimps would probably not allow it. Spoil all our fun they do! Hopefully 2007 will be a better year for Vulcans!

It also made me titter to hear all of the ex Vulcan crews fighting over the name of some equipment! Considering it must be at least 20+ years since any of you flew the Jet, your powers of memory are far more astute than mine! I struggle to remember the name of the equipment i worked on 5 years ago, let alone 20+ ! I salute you!

[Lancasterman]

You are right Peppermint Jam! It would be great to see a bit of life come back into the old Vulcan. I wonder if they kept the runs non public, would they escape the H and S troup???

[Navaleye]

Hey BEagle,

Happy Xmas and New Year - I was wondering if anyone in the back seat had a camera to record your Eder sortie? Great story.

[Lancasterman]

Any updates on her restoration?

[BEagle]

Navaleye - no, unfortunately not.

The odd German at the castle might have taken the odd piccie, I guess!

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

so! how odd voz zis Djerman at zer castel?

[midsomerjambo]

If you're interested, Andy Leitch posted a photo of mine that was taken on F-dispersal at Scampton sometime in 1981 (I think) of XJ823 and the air and groundcrew of 35 Squadron (of which I was one - NBS tech.). We got her from 27 Squadron so she was a bit different from the rest of our bombers in that she had a glossy coat. It's kind of hard to make out faces but I still have the original - I can't believe I ever looked that young! :{

http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/vulcan_people/35sqn_scampton.htm

[threeputt]

Good piccie; my memory is going though, as I only recognise Simpo and Robin Sudlow from amongst that august bunch. Ian Junor, what a top bloke, anyone know where he is? (Wasn't Beagle on the sqn in those days?)

3P

[Pontius Navigator]

Immediate left of centre has to be Sandy Semple. Recognised the mop from the small print.

[Rionart]

Is that John Ingram 2 to the right of center?