Delta 767 EGCC 09/12/06 Gear Trouble?

[BigHitDH]

I was on the departure end of runway 1 at about 12:30pm Saturday 9th an EGCC and saw a Delta 767 depart and not retract its left MLG. It appeared to climb fairly slowly (I estimated to about 5000ft) and make a right hand turn to fly back toward the airfield.

I watched it for as long as I could I'd guess 7-8 mins and in all that time I never did see that left gear go away, but neither did I hear anything of it, or see it return to the airfield.

Can anyone shed any light on what happened, or where it went?

What are the SOPs (obviously they differ airline to airline) for this sort of problem?

Regards,

[jondc9]

I will not be the one saying that BA's sops would call for them to fly to destination with the one gear down. ;-)

I imagine that the gear pin was left in the gear and that the plane will reduce weight (dumping and just flying around burning off fuel...only a few of the earlier 767's can't dump fuel) and then put all the gear down and land.

[BigHitDH]

Hmm, I thought the crew had to have all the gear pins in the cockpit before doors shut as part of their checks?

[captainlj]

In regards to the Delta that departed and was unable to retract his left wheel:

I was working on sector that morning and he did infact level off at 6000ft for around 30 miles north of Manchester to allow him to try and rectify the situation.

However after many minutes of trying he requested to divert to Gatwick (this being the reason you never seen him return to Manchester). He did infact fly all the way to Gatwick at 6000ft.

I bet everyone with a window seat got a good view!!

[BigHitDH]

Captainlj

Many thanks for that answer!

[jondc9]

big hit

yes, the pins are supposed to be in the cockpit...but mistakes do happen.

now, I don't know for a FACT that was the reason the left gear didn't retract...there might have been another reason, or multiple reasons.

there is an old joke stateside about an arrogant delta pilot followed by another airline...arrogance abounded by the delta, and the following less arrogant pilot finally mentioned that since DELTA LOVED TO FLY AND IT SHOWS...it might be wise to remove the gear pin before it showed how stupid they were.

amazingly enough, if you takeoff and can't retract the gear and simultaneously lose an engine...you have real problems.

one might call the CAA people at gatwick to find out the whole story.

[V1uhoh]

Its was Ship 1504. and as stated they diverted to LGW
The flight was also a line check (checkride) for the captain!! Makes it fun!
I highly DOUBT its the grear pins...probably hear about it soon.
I wonder why he didnt return to MAN? Perhaps to burn fuel to reach a landing weight instead of dumping?

[jondc9]

v1uhoh (great name by the way)

if it was the gear pins, the check airman might have been doing the walk around...ouch!

of course it may have been many other things than the gear pins...I do hope someone close to this will keep us informed.

I can imagine the problem would be easier to repair at gatwick?

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Would think he would burn plenty at 6000 feet with gear down also maybe his maintenance wanted him there as they have a big operation at Gatwick

G-I-B

[vincent van gogh]

Hello,

A/C went to LGW and needed an overweight landing check.
They followed the FIM and found the left gear position actuator at fault.
Replaced and now all ok.
This actuator will tilt the gear in position for retraction.

regards VvG

[Vampy]

And did the Captain pass his line check? :} ;)

[BAe 146-100]

He did infact fly all the way to Gatwick at 6000ft.

I bet everyone with a window seat got a good view!!

He actually didn't, more like FL90/9000 down to Gatwick. He was on a Pole Hill and asked to maintain 5000, then requested climb to 6000. Once they decided to go to LGW (without fuel dumping) they were given a radar heading back southbound and cleared up to FL90 for the trip to LGW.

Still a good view though. :ok:

BAe 146

[chemical alli]

from memory the tilt actuator tilts the gear to 17 degrees and only after the pseu see"s the gear tilted will it allow to retract. two tilt switchs,strange a tilt actuator failure ,unless a remove/install carried out and no bleed of the system,probably find a tilt switch failure

[loubylou]

Didn't think a 767 could dump fuel :confused:

louby

[matkat]

Didn't think a 767 could dump fuel :confused:
louby
My understanding is that some can.

[HotDog]

Longer than I care to admit, I had two incidents operating on a CV880 when a nose gear failed to retract after take off and another one when the left main gear failed to retract. Both incidents resulted in return and were due to linkage failures.

[WHBM]

Besides the engineering considerations, and as all safety aspects were covered, it is also obviously better to get the pax to a point where there are the best opportunities to reroute them on to their destinations same day, and London is going to offer much better opportunities for this than Manchester.

[fmgc]

Hmm, I thought the crew had to have all the gear pins in the cockpit before doors shut as part of their checks?


This is the sort of ignorant "pre guessing" that really is starting to irritate me about Pprune.

Of the many many reasons that a MLG would not retract why do you instantly imply that it was because a gear pin was left in?

[yeoman]

The -300 has fuel jettison. Unsure if this is standard or an option. Dumps from Centre tank only at @ 1100 kg/min. With 37.0T in the (full) wings and a typical ZFM of 120.0 that would leave you over MLM of 145,149 kg, probably even after a low level / high drag transit to LGW. I'm assuming that DL would have had > full wings for a run to Whereverville USA. The LDA at LGW is considerably shorter than MAN but is still long enough at MLM.

The Truck Tilt forms part of the Air Ground Logic and, as stated previously, prevents gear retraction if inop.

Would probably have been good to have a 3rd brain in the Checker - use of resources etc (rather than the 1/3rd brain of the pin theorist).:ugh:

[mutt]

Of the many many reasons that a MLG would not retract why do you instantly imply that it was because a gear pin was left in?

It happens.... we had a B777 RTF last week due to main gear not retracting, cause found to be gear pins!

Mutt

[RoyHudd]

Which airline might that be, Mutt?

[Danny]

This is the sort of ignorant "pre guessing" that really is starting to irritate me about Pprune.

Of the many many reasons that a MLG would not retract why do you instantly imply that it was because a gear pin was left in?
Unfortunately, the "guesser" is none other than the self proclaimed 'expert' and CNN aviation pundit, jondc9 which is precisely why his reputation here on PPRuNe is lower than a low something or other. This is what happens when someone elevates themselves onto a high pedestal without the proper credentials to support them.

Please don't blame PPRuNe per se. We do our best to get informed speculation rather than uninformed opinion. There is a difference, believe it or not even though CNN wouldn't think so even if it hit them on the back of their collective heads. :hmm:

[stickyb]

Unfortunately, the "guesser" is none other than the self proclaimed 'expert' and CNN aviation pundit, jondc9


Does this guy post under two different handles then?

Whoops, my apologies. I have just read the thread correctly and realise that Danny was talking about jondc9, not fmgc. My post above has got the wrong end of the stick.

[West Coast]

O' Lord, he's a talking head as well. During the Jet blue Airbus cocked nosewheel landing in LAX, the local San Diego station was trotting out a staff reporter who happened to have a PPL as their aviation expert.