Radio License Exam [Archive]

davidatter708

10th Dec 2006, 14:29

Hello to all. I passed my skills test almost a month ago and am going to do my radio license before sending off my application as it saves money. Just wondeing if anyone has got any tips except read cap 413.
Thanks alot dave

Barshifter

10th Dec 2006, 15:19

davidatter708
I found the Trevor Thom "Radiotelephony" book quite usefull.Only fault is that unless you know what the syllabus is for your exam you could end up reading more in the book than you actually need to know.

On sale here aswell as the usual pilot shops.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Radiotelephony-Pilots-Manual-Trevor-Thom/dp/1843360713/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt/203-3512192-9824746

Regards

Barshifter

soay

10th Dec 2006, 15:39

Read the example practical communications test in Safety Sense Leaflet 22 in LASORS (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS_07.pdf), SECTION 2 - ORS. I found that very helpful. Good luck!

acuba 290

10th Dec 2006, 15:59

also Jeremy Pratt's book PPL2 helps;)

Keygrip

10th Dec 2006, 16:28

Just as an aside.......it doesn't save any money to pass the test before sending off the application.

Whopity

10th Dec 2006, 20:20

If your instructor has covered the syllabus and filled in one of these for you whilst you did your training, you shouldn't have any trouble:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1171.PDF

A read of this may also help:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG_GAD_WEBSSL22.PDF

tiggermoth

11th Dec 2006, 16:58

Very well done on passing your skills test!

I would suggest booking a weekend course with Malcolm Dobson at Leeds-Bradford airport (or at Barton, Manchester). It's a two day intensive course over a weekend, and it's absolutely excellent, and I can thoroughly recommed it. Well worth a train journey and an overnight stay at a B&B.

It includes the written and the theory side of things. Of course you've already done the written one, but it would help with your practical too. You would probably have to travel back to take the actual practical exam the following weekend (or following day possibly).

You may be able to do a one-on-one training session with him possibly (I don't know) but learning in a class helps becasue you can learn off each other's RT mistakes, mumblings and hesitations.

The cost, from memory, is £170. He's a very entertaining and thoroughly nice chap.

T.

modelman

11th Dec 2006, 22:14

Hi Mate
Well done on the skills test-got mine about about a month ago and got the brown wallet about a week ago.
I did my RT practical when flying was weathered off one day so I went round to Atlantic Flight Training at Cov and did it there and then.
I usually get a bit keyed up before any sort of test/exam but I didn't have time for this and passed ok.:)
Flying out of Cov helps a lot mind as there is quite a lot of RT there.I remember my first solo landaway at Leics.When I came to depart back to Cov,I remember requesting taxi clearance and got the reply 'you gotta work it out yourself buddy' I imagine this caused a bit of amusement in the clubhouse.
I just chewed my way through CAP 413 and Jeremy Pratt's book.I also used the OAT CD which hammers home correct RT speak (tree tousand fife hundred etc).
MM

davidatter708

12th Dec 2006, 11:00

Thanks for all your replies I will certainly follow some of them up.
Modelman a couple of people probably did have a chuckle but that aint the daftess one I've heard at Leicester and your not the only to have asked for similar clearences
David

Ray Kernan

12th Dec 2006, 11:35

Passed my RT exam a few weeks ago.

Cheap way to learn is just to spend a day listening out at a busy AD nearby that handles a mix of private and biz aircraft. Biggin is one if you can get down there.

scooter boy

12th Dec 2006, 23:03

DA708, best tip is to slip £50 to the examiner.:E Small denominations, non-consecutive serial numbers, make it subtle, know what I mean? They should see you right once you've made the right deposit.

Seriously though I found the MCQ questions uniformly entirely irrelevant to the practical day to day flying RT that we all do. I can only suppose the questions were dreamt up by some old codger who stopped flying before people stopped suffixing transmissions with the words "over" or "roger and out". Just listen to the interminable transmissions you here at any given UK airfield most hours of the day and you can see how beneficial this test really is.

I would consider a straight fail as having absolutely no bearing on your actual RT skills - such is the farcical nature of this test. Took me 3 gos to get it (after 550 hours of flying on a non-CAA license and getting reasonably slick at using the radio). Another example of the b*ll*cks system we have to endure over here! It should come with the PPL - not as a separate issue.
Oh well - said my piece.

Roger and out!

SB

davidatter708

13th Dec 2006, 08:59

I agree scooter boy it should be part of the license and if they wont do that at least give the option of actually doing a set flight and having to do the radio as you go I think that would be alot more benificial because you can see what is happening not just a computer screen. Just wonder how many people would rather do that than a test in a room.
Thanks again
David

360BakTrak

13th Dec 2006, 15:07

It may be a farcical test but it's helping to reduce the number of people with absolutely atrocious RT who got given one automatically with their PPL in the past! It would be a good idea to do it on a 'real' flight but then thats another £120 or so just to obtain your licence. Would flying instructors want to dedicate a flight to examining your RT or should it be incorporated properly into the PPL syllabus and form part of the skills test? :confused:
I would suspect the work involved in changing the whole scheme will mean it will carry on as it is, which for me is a good thing!;)

possel

13th Dec 2006, 17:46

For the exam, swot 413 like mad. Hopefully you have been using the radio a lot in your traning anyway?

For the real thing, think before you speak, and know what possible answers you expect to hear. Try to sound professional! That all requires lots of practice in both listening and doing.

I remember I was not clearly taught the difference between "Radio" and "Info", and had to work it out for myself. There are still lots who don't!

IO540

13th Dec 2006, 20:01

Seriously though I found the MCQ questions uniformly entirely irrelevant to the practical day to day flying RT that we all do. I can only suppose the questions were dreamt up by some old codger who stopped flying before people stopped suffixing transmissions with the words "over" or "roger and out". Just listen to the interminable transmissions you here at any given UK airfield most hours of the day and you can see how beneficial this test really is.

I couldn't agree more. The RT test I had was plain silly. I also got well confused because it involved a pretent flight of an hour or two but condensed into 10-15 minutes, and I couldn't work out how far along the flight I was supposed to have progressed. The actual calls were simple, the basic stuff, a PAN or a MAYDAY on behalf of a liferaft spotted below, I vaguely recall.

To be constructive, I wonder why RT is so often so poor.

With fresh graduates of the PPL sausage machine, it could be because a lot is crammed into the 50-60hrs, and the student is not learning too well, due to the constant pressure. Not a lot one can do about that, short of taking your instructor on long x/c flights (he would like that very much of course; makes the job much more enjoyable) and that is going to make the PPL cost a lot more.

With old-timers, I can't understand why they still say "over". How many years back does this go? It would be genuinely interesting to discover the reason why bad R/T can persist for so long, among people who presumably have been flying for many years.

RT is not easy. I've got about 700hrs in 5yrs and still have to think carefully before making initial calls.

Whopity

13th Dec 2006, 22:36

Just listen to the interminable transmissions you here at any given UK airfield most hours of the day and you can see how beneficial this test really is.Are you saying that the conversations you hear on the radio are wrong, or that because the test is different that must be wrong?

NATS recently did a survey of calls from predominantly professional traffic and the percentage that were incorrect was disappointingly high.

RT has contributed to accidents in the past and will do in the future; there is a growing lobby looking for a formal course as well as a test. The test can only ask you questions that are in the book and ask you to demonstrate the calls that are written into the book.

The UK tried testing people in the air on flight tests for 10 years until it became apparent that two standards had emerged, those formally tested by an Authorised Examiner, and those who had simply gained ticks in boxes.

The practical test gives the candidate the opportunity to demonstrate that they can make all of the basic calls; as the candidate controls the progress of the test, they should not be confused with where they are!

RT is poor for three principal reasons:
Little or no training
A failure to take it serously
RT is learned by copying others, mistakes and all.

IO540

14th Dec 2006, 09:46

I agree, but I think that

NATS recently did a survey of calls from predominantly professional traffic and the percentage that were incorrect was disappointingly high

is because so many are from elsewhere in the world, with English not being their language. British Airways OTOH can never go wrong, with their Nigels with carefully cultured public school accents :)

Outside the UK, the standard of English among ATCOs is also often poor, to the point of being (IMHO) potentially dangerous, and the further you go south the worse it gets.

I went to a presentation a year or two ago where a JAA speaker said there would be a new English language proficiency test introduced, for both pilots and ATCOs.

As regards the UK, it would be interesting to see a survey of RT which brings in how long the pilot has been flying. My view is that a big majority of PPLs chuck it in pretty fast (within a year or two) and as a result most of those actually up there have learnt a very long time (decades) ago.

Whopity

14th Dec 2006, 10:19

In other words we are paying the price of continuous assessment 89 - 99!

The ICAO English assessment comes in in 2008! But as native English speakers we will be level 6 if you come from the Watford triangle!

Keygrip

15th Dec 2006, 00:08

Oh Bugger!

HR200

15th Dec 2006, 19:19

davidatter708

21st Dec 2006, 21:06

Thanks to everyone for their advice and just to let you know I passed so i just got towait for the postman
David
ps merry christmas and a happy new year to everyone

tiggermoth

22nd Dec 2006, 08:10

Well done! Brilliant news, That's a good little Christmas present for you!
T.