Jetstar International Losing Pilots Already?

[Z Force]

Can anyone confirm that JI have just lost seven of the newly recruited pilots to Korean? Apparently Korean are offering two weeks on then two off with all commuting expenses paid.

[Jetsbest]

Have heard from CX crewroom notice about an offer of 3-weeks-on/2-off with GUARANTEED 1st-class paxing from/to home port; and all for A$30K/month for Captains. Still need the confirmation of real evidence though... Interesting nonetheless.:ok:

[Pete Conrad]

What?...leave Jetstar International?????!!! But they fly brand new A330's and they have the JPC looking after them? How can anybody leave JI? The most dynamic company in the Southern hemisphere!!..

[Howard Hughes]

Have heard from CX crewroom notice about an offer of 3-weeks-on/2-off with GUARANTEED 1st-class paxing from/to home port; and all for A$30K/month for Captains. Still need the confirmation of real evidence though... Interesting nonetheless.:ok:
On $360,000 per annum, I expect they would get more than just Jetstar pilots applying...:ok:

[404 Titan]

Jetsbest
Have heard from CX crewroom notice about an offer of 3-weeks-on/2-off with GUARANTEED 1st-class paxing from/to home port; and all for A$30K/month for Captains.Not at CX. Wish it was but that is just a fanciful story. Pay only goes down here, not up and certainly not up for new joiners. It sounds more like the rumour going round of what Korean Air is offering except even they aren’t that good with the pay. From what I understand it is more like US$14000.00 per month tax free with guaranteed first class travel back to Australia. I’ve only heard this second hand though and I can’t substantiate it.

[Macrohard]

A330
US$10,100 per month net (after Korean tax paid by RAL)
During the training period the monthly salary payment will be:
US$7,400 per month (after Korean tax paid by RAL)

This is a cut'n'paste directly from the Rishworth contract. Not quite 30k/mth.

[Aussie]

So from 30K to 10K... i guess it is a rumour network!


Aussie

[AerocatS2A]

So from 30K to 10K... i guess it is a rumour network!

30K Aus before tax is not that far removed from 10K US after tax.

[Keg]

I think there would be per diems on top of that too.

[Metro man]

US$10 000 = A$13 000, If that's in hand plus allowances and accommodation whilst in Korea, not a bad deal. Just make sure you set things up with your accountant before you leave, to avoid falling foul of the tax laws re residence. I heard some Australian pilots flying for Korean Air get to spend more time in Oz than QF long haul pilots.

[404 Titan]

I believe that the Korean accommodation is a hotel room, nothing more. Be very careful if you claim non-residency with this type of accommodation, especially with your family living in Australia.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Short answer 404, broadly speaking you can't.

[Gnadenburg]

What would it matter anyway?

Two things that Australian pilots have done since the advent of Virgin Blue- they have taken away the two most important supply & demand factors.

1) Attrition. If you are expensive to replace, they will pay to keep you.However, J* & VB pilots have paid for their training so they are inexpensive to replace.Hence, attrition means little!

2) Experience. If airlines get away without relying on experience, it opens the gene pool to all and sundry. If an airline such as Virgin Blue or J*, go through expansion phases, and get away with upgrading inexperienced pilots relatively quickly, it won't auger well for remuneration.

Consider this with point one and anecdotal evidence of the standards at Australian LCC's, and you have the parlous state of affairs for pilots in Oz!

Qantas pilots will deliver this one on a platter to the taxman- and why wouldn't they?

[alidad]

Oh, let us all face east to Coward Street and pay hommage to the Skygods 5 times a day. Forgive me Skygod for coming to your table and drinking the same water and flying in the same airspace as you, gracious Skygod...............................W*NK3R:E

Gnadenberg,
My mother taught me when I was a child to not worship false idols. Suggest you take that advice and stop playing with that naked image in the mirror on those lonely overnights.

[404 Titan]

Gnadenburg
Consider this with point one and anecdotal evidence of the standards at Australian LCC's, and you have the parlous state of affairs for pilots in Oz!
I don’t work for a LCC and never will on principle but comments like that are plain stupid, ill-informed and false and do absolutely nothing to help you and the rest of the industry unite to improve conditions for all. Some on this forum on both sides need a reality check. How the hell do you think things have got so bad in Australia? It’s because management uses divide and conquer to push down conditions and comments like that are playing straight into their hands. Stop the “HE” man attitudes and start engaging your LCC brethren and vv because if you don’t it’s all over Red Rover. Game set and match to airline management.

Rant over.:yuk:

[Gnadenburg]

alidad

You must be from a low cost gene pool with an outburst like that. Debate the issue and give up on the 'gay like' outbursts. I don't work for QF- yet every second post I make I get labelled a QF tosser ( they must be good blokes ).

But, if I were a QF pilot, with J* pilots using their reduced conditions of service merely as a means to progress to the contract world, I would present their heads on a platter to the ATO ( Australian Taxation Office ).

Especially, in the case of former J* pilots number crunching packages without factoring in Australian taxation. Why should someone undercut you and then become a tax evader to make ends meet? :=

[Gnadenburg]

rant over.:yuk:

Yes it was a rant 404.

And my point reference the standards at LCC's was systemic- and not pointed toward the individual! The money LCC's invest in TRG would be significantly less than QF say.

Lucky for you BTW, you have the English, Star Chamber, high failure rates etc. If you had the LCC philosphy & training structure of Virgin Blue or J*, I doubt you would be getting your 30K a month package at CX.:uhoh:

[podbreak]

US$10 000 = A$13 000, If that's in hand plus allowances and accommodation whilst in Korea, not a bad deal. Just make sure you set things up with your accountant before you leave, to avoid falling foul of the tax laws re residence. I heard some Australian pilots flying for Korean Air get to spend more time in Oz than QF long haul pilots.

Not just Korean. Now with the whole JI RDOs saga there are a whole list of airlines who can guarantee more time in Oz than JI (with basings o/s). Heard EVA were doing 8 days a month in Oz? Suddenly the 'they-just-wanna-come-home' argument is quashed...

[Henry Winkler]

Oh, let us all face east to Coward Street and pay hommage to the Skygods 5 times a day. Forgive me Skygod for coming to your table and drinking the same water and flying in the same airspace as you, gracious Skygod...............................W*NK3R:E
Gnadenberg,
My mother taught me when I was a child to not worship false idols. Suggest you take that advice and stop playing with that naked image in the mirror on those lonely overnights.
Wow. I'm not sure it is the experience level of pilots that we should be worried about. It's more the maturity level. This guy is not the only one. Could we grow up please.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Gardenburglar,
Please, for all our benefit, show us an industry in Australia that is not trying their damnest to become "low cost"
Same old story. Dont blame the staff. Blame our wonderful Govenment.

Oh and before you get up on your "best pilot in the world" highhorse, please understand that the rest of the pilot world has been waiting very patiently for you lot to finally make a stand against the rodents nibbling at everyones raft. The really sad thing is, now that the rodents have finished the raft and are now nibbling at your own precious RMW boots you are still sitting there with a "roo in the headlight" gaze doing f&*kall about it!

You blokes were too good for everyone else during "that event" so lay in the bed you made!

bbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z

[404 Titan]

Gnadenburg

You really like spinning some s**t for someone who doesn’t work for QF.
And my point reference the standards at LCC's was systemic- and not pointed toward the individual! The money LCC's invest in TRG would be significantly less than QF say.
You prove to me that apart from the initial endorsement that LCC’s in Australia spend less on training than QF. QF just like CX has been doing their darnedest to cut training costs where ever they can. The number of sims at both companies that a pilot can expect to see have been cut to the bone. We have a former C&T from DJ working as a sim instructor here at CX. I know exactly what the average DJ guy has to go through and it aint much different from what a CX or a QF guy has to go through.
Lucky for you BTW, you have the English, Star Chamber, high failure rates etcAs for the star chamber at CX. Well yes it can be a pain in the arse as I have come foul of it myself but have learnt from it. It’s a case of learning to play the game. By the way the command pass rate on the bus for the last six months has been around 85% and in the 90’s on the B777.
If you had the LCC philosphy & training structure of Virgin Blue or J*, I doubt you would be getting your 30K a month package at CX. As for the AUD$30K you think the average CX guy earns. I’m getting sick of you mouthing off that BS. The average F/O would be on about half that and Capt would be about AUD$5K short. This is including housing as well. Don’t get me started either on what an Aus based CX F/O or Capt earns because quite frankly if they heard you say what you have just said they would probably punch your lights out.

Next time I suggest you get your information correct before quoting it as fact here because it makes the rest of your argument look, well, made up.

[Wingspar]

404,

You prove to me that apart from the initial endorsement that LCC’s in Australia spend less on training than QF.

Have you seen the QF sim and training centre in Sydney?

[Howard Hughes]

Have you seen the QF sim and training centre in Sydney?
I have been there in the last month, apart from the odd new sim, I think the whole centre is looking quite tired, especially the crew EP training area!! Could do with a complete revamp.:hmm:

[Wingspar]

apart from the odd new sim

They're not exactly cheap and especially the latest A380 just installed!

The point is QF have invested substantially over the decades so maybe we can forgive the person who originally picked the brown bricks! ;)

[404 Titan]

Wingspar

Whether a company buys their own sims or uses someone else’s makes no difference to the quality of the training and checking as long as they have control of it. Actually I think DJ do own one or two of their own sims. Just because they don’t have as many as QF is more a case of who operates more and differing types of aircraft than anything else.

Yes I have been to the QF training centre at Mascot. It’s bigger than DJ’s simply because they have to house more sims. Given time just like QF has, I’m sure that DJ will have a large training centre. They just don’t need one as big as QF’s, certainly not right now.

[Gnadenburg]

You blokes were too good for everyone else during "that event" so lay in the bed you made!
bbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z

Buzzy

You aren't the brightest. And your comprehension lacking if you re-read my previous.

And regarding that "event", I would suggest the greatest betrayal of conditions of service for pilots in this country, was from former 89ers repatriating to create the T&C's at Virgin Blue!

If you leave Buzzy, you don't affect the bottom line. From the day you paid for your own training, you took away Virgin Blue's investment risk. You are cheap and simple to replace. You, as attrition, mean nothing!

[Gnadenburg]

GnadenburgAs for the star chamber at CX. Well yes it can be a pain in the arse as I have come foul of it myself but have learnt from it.

If they heard you say what you have just said they would probably punch your lights out.


I can see how you could fall foul of Star Chamber C404. But have you learn't your lesson? You are very aggressive.

Perhaps, if you were as creative in accounting as Virgin Blue pilots at social events, you could add allowances, superannuation and other incidentals to drag that package toward 30K a month. And in a strict discussion of market forces, let us consider captains, it's far easier to compare payscales, costs and industry demand.

Buzzy Versus C404. Low Cost Pilot versus Legacy Pilot.

From the day you did your interviews to the day you started line flying, how much did each of you cost your respective employer?

Buzzy? Near zero or perhaps that single sim' session?

C404? C'mon. Conservatively? How long were you on the payrole before you were revenue?

What does it cost to get a Captain trained at a legacy carrier versus a low cost carrier?

Now, Buzzy & C404 decide to leave the company for Korean Airlines. What did Buzzy cost the company in lost investment and what will his replacement cost be? Versus C404?

J* pilots leaving for Korean is meaningless. Market forces are irrelevant and attrition replacement cost effective. Conditions won't improve!

[Gnadenburg]

And of course, if Low Cost Pilots are now trying to fund retirement as tax evaders. Dob them in!

Why slew market forces further against you?

[Mr.Buzzy]

I mean really Gardenburglar!
3 posts in half an hour from you. Pacing around your apartment, rubbing your moustache and hissing at the world. Thinking of ways to berate everyone but your important self.

Dob them in! He says. Herin is the character of Gnadenburg.

:ok: Thats all from me thanks:ok:

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzz

[blueloo]

You blokes were too good for everyone else during "that event" so lay in the bed you made!

bbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z


Mr Buzzy, its a bit rich you trying to put others down, when clearly when you make posts like this your standards are questionable.

More to the point, since 1989, QANTAS would have employed nearly 1000+ pilots (and in fact nearly 1000 pilots from 1999) (or roughly just under half the current total of pilots) many of which would have had nothing to do with that event, in fact I would suggest a large majority were still in school at the time.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Agreed entirely Blueloo,

every "low cost" pilot worldwide has been tarred by gardenburgar's same brush; just handing back a similar meaningless line.

:ok:

bbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzz

[404 Titan]

Gnadenburg
I can see how you could fall foul of Star Chamber C404. But have you learn't your lesson? You are very aggressive.Actually my coming foul of the “Start Chamber” was my fault and it wasn’t for political reasons. I’ve flown on numerous occasions with all the airbus management pilots at CX and they know I am one of the more pleasant F/O’s to fly with. I am the last person if you knew me to call “aggressive”. Assertive is more appropriate.
Perhaps, if you were as creative in accounting as Virgin Blue pilots at social events, you could add allowances, superannuation and other incidentals to drag that package toward 30K a month. And in a strict discussion of market forces, let us consider captains, it's far easier to compare payscales, costs and industry demand.I am very creative with accounting as I should be being a CPA. In those figures I gave you of what a CX F/O and Capt earn, I included the housing allowance.

I have many QF mates who just shake their heads at some of the numb nuts within their company that come on this forum and slag off the abilities and professionalism of their LCC brethren, simply because they do the same job for less dosh. Get over it shags. You need to shake hands with them and start working together as a collective group to improve the conditions for all. This goes for you too Buzzy.
Buzzy Versus C404. Low Cost Pilot versus Legacy Pilot.

From the day you did your interviews to the day you started line flying, how much did each of you cost your respective employer?

Buzzy? Near zero or perhaps that single sim' session?

C404? C'mon. Conservatively? How long were you on the payrole before you were revenue?

What does it cost to get a Captain trained at a legacy carrier versus a low cost carrier?

Now, Buzzy & C404 decide to leave the company for Korean Airlines. What did Buzzy cost the company in lost investment and what will his replacement cost be? Versus C404?
I just like you don’t like the fact that these LCC make the new applicant pay for their endorsement. I would has it a guess that most LCC pilots hate it as well. Does this make them less professional than you and me? No, of course not. Excluding the initial endorsement costs which are small compared to the ongoing training cost, the pilot at a LCC in Aus has to go through all the same regulatory BS that a pilot at QF does every year. As I said the real costs lye in the ongoing checking and training a pilot must undergo to maintain his/her licence and upgrade. Here the cost per pilot would be about the same. The longer a pilot stays with a particular carrier the more it costs the airline to lose them, period.
J* pilots leaving for Korean is meaningless. Market forces are irrelevant and attrition replacement cost effective. Conditions won't improve!If they leave in such numbers as to disrupt the airlines operations, it will.

[the truth....]

I have been there in the last month, apart from the odd new sim, I think the whole centre is looking quite tired

Yep, the odd new sim, would that be the new 767 simulator which replaced the old one? Or the new A380 sim, or the newly upgraded 744 sim with the rest of the fleet being individually upgraded as I type. Also believe there is a new Dash 8 sim in there too, but may be mistaken there.

But heaven forbid if the centre looks tired even though where the actually training takes place is state of the art...:ugh:

[Z Force]

Can anybody answer the original question though?

[peuce]

this has been going around in circles for years now. Does anyone have any info or is this thread yet another QF vs. Jet* pissing contest with a bit of '89 thrown in as well for good measure?

Yes, and it's getting a bit bloody boring ...

[Pete Conrad]

How about some of the Jetstar guys enlighten us.........................

[Howard Hughes]

even though where the actually training takes place is state of the art.
Well I would agree, some of the equipment the training takes place on maybe state of the art, but that does not necessarily mean that the training itself reaches the same high standards, nor that they are the world leaders in training practices!

Lets face it, most QF guys with the exception of a few ex Ansett types, have only ever flown with QF, so they have nothing to compare the standards too, so of course they are of the opinion that QF is number 1 in training practices.

It's a big world out there and some of the LCC's may even be doing things a little better than their Legacy counterparts...

Out of interest, I too would like to know the answer to the original question!:ok:

[blueloo]

Lets face it, most QF guys with the exception of a few ex Ansett types, have only ever flown with QF, so they have nothing to compare the standards too, so of course they are of the opinion that QF is number 1 in training practices.




Actually I think you would find most QF guys would think how bad QF training is (and maybe this is biased because they have no-one to compare how bad others are...????)

In fact QF does very little training, and a lot of testing. Guys are meant to be able to perform to a high standard with virtually nil training.

The good thing is that the short haul system seems to have seen the light, and is in fact ramping up the training which is fantastic compared to the old system.

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

Well, one can only assume that due to the lack of a denial from any Jetstar PPRUNER's that these pilots have actually left.

[Keg]

In fact QF does very little training, and a lot of testing. Guys are meant to be able to perform to a high standard with virtually nil training.


Sorry for the thread drift but I disagree. Having gone through a conversion in the last 12 months I was very impressed with the 'training' that was provided compared to my last training course about nine years earlier. I've also noticed that the cyclic's have had a huge amount of training added to them over the last couple of years.

There are other things in QF training that are less than impressive but I believe the system is making good efforts at improving the delivery of 'training' in terms of simulators and so on.

[Dropt McGutz]

To add a further question to this thread, are Jetstar flight crew getting rostered days off when away on a trip?

[an3_bolt]

Lets face it, most QF guys with the exception of a few ex Ansett types, have only ever flown with QF, so they have nothing to compare the standards too, so of course they are of the opinion that QF is number 1 in training practices.
:
FALSE
You might be supprised at the diversity that are within QF. There are a few ex-AN guys but you will find guys who have flown all over the world at different carriers.
By the way - I understand most guys are realistic in their view of aviation and its various components - be it the training or the management etc etc.
In any case - it is not worth getting worked up about no matter what your conviction or belief is. Life is too short.
In any case - this is a thread about Jetstar Inc. losing pilots. Any truth to the rumour??

[the truth....]

My last post on Qf training because of thread drift, but I would say that in the last couple of years with new management, the training department has improved tenfold. But of course that is just my opinion. Also second officer simulator sessions now consist of two 'training sims' and two 'checking' sims so things are changing, I think for the better. Anyhow HH I thought u were just having a go at the kit in the building and I thought that was a bit rich considering it is all good stuff. As to the EP section, I joined with an Ex Ansett guy and he was amazed at the size of it with all the trainers / a/c doors etc, he said Ansett didn't have anything like it. Now I am not by any means having a go at Ansett, it was a fantastic airline, I am just stating me experience with such other people and it might not all be bad one way traffic.

Anyhow. . .Have the said Jetstar pilots left to greener or sandier pastures? And are they taking their RDO overseas?

[Wingspar]

Does anyone know if any Jetstar Int pilots have left?

Appears to be a rumour going around!

[blueloo]

thats good news keg. i too hope the training improves, as you, and i have said it has/appears to be.

unfortunately the opinions of most (including my opinion) suggest it was not to good (ie cr-=ap) in the very recent past, and i still view the long haul system as primarily checking, especially on the 767.

[Gnadenburg]

Herin is the character of Gnadenburg.
:ok: Thats all from me thanks:ok:

The next few years, will see more opportunity for Australian pilots with professional mobility. However, Australian pilots are cheap & nasty, reliable to undercut and even scab.The rumoured ( and I doubt if true ) loss of seven J* pilots to Korean will be my case in point.

$10,000 USD barely an acceptable package tax free. So, any J* A330 pilots will be number crunching on an assumption that they will not be paying Australian tax- despite a commuting contract in clear breech of non-residancy status.

How would you feel as a Qantas pilot? Jetstar have undercut your conditions by a ridiculous and almost spiteful margin. They have taken away your promotional opportunity, and left you in a dire industrial position.

And now, J* pilots, to make ends meet, and in a stance far easier to take than negotiating a better package, are making a mockery of Australian airline pilots. J* International is now a springboard to the contract world!

But the catch is, they will have to use tax evasion to make the numbers work!

In terms of market forces, they are filling a void falsely and cheaply. As a consequence, they could well be driving general pilot condions down- by providing Asian carriers with cheap Australian labour. The Korean package, probably should be 14 USD a month, to compensate taxation payable in Australia.

A leap in Northern Asian contract packages will send a chill through airline managment near and afar.

So, yes, dob these mugs in if they are tax evaders. You are doing the profession a favour! And it is not only QF pilots who will eventually be affected.

[The Pirate]

My spies tell me that no one has left (yet) because the numbers dont stack up and most of them have just come back from OS anyway.

But what a bunch of nasty, bitter, dobbing, twisted bas**rds you are out there. Get a life! Smell the coffee! Mind your own effing business and get on with your own career as best you can under the current conditions and stop bitching before you burst a kerfuffa valve..........

Wait long enough and things will change ............ :*

Capt Jack Sparrow

[Mud Skipper]

But what a bunch of nasty, bitter, dobbing, twisted bas**rds you are out there. Get a life! Smell the coffee! Mind your own effing business and get on with your own career as best you can under the current conditions and stop bitching before you burst a kerfuffa valve..........


Dear Pirate,

Happy to mind my own effing business but these people are stuffing it up and F^ing my kerfuffa valve. It's hard to be simplistic and overlook someone rogering you and inturn your wife and kids.


...... Pirate - more like a Buggie smuggler:}

[Pete Conrad]

Have to say..this was predicted to happen. The company threatened base closures, loss of commands and even god forbid..losing the Tasman flying to Jetconnect, the incumbent, if the JPC didn't get the EBA widebody addition up.

The J* guys bought the lot over threats and intimidation..under the allusion of vote the EBA now and then we can fight for better conditions..well, I would like to see this happen, because I reckon the next step for J* pilots will be a nice little AWA in a few years time.

Nice one guys..vote the EBA in then p1ss off to Cathay, Dragon, Emirates etc etc....bet you J* guys can hold your heads high..NOT!!

[Gnadenburg]

Ratpoison

I have just read the ten thingies, and I would suggest you are the one in breech of a few of them with that outburst!

Nobody, nor any pilot group was labelled a scab in my post. I was being introspective as an Australian pilot. We are, as described!

I can't find where it says I can't use the scab word- except if directed malicously at an individual or group. Point me in the direction please. I'm happy to substitue with strike breakers etc.:)

[The Pirate]

Muddy Skipper:- It's hard to be simplistic and overlook someone rogering you and inturn your wife and kids.

So this has never happened before? Cope with it! We all have; do I complain about 12 years before the mast, broken marriage, kids growing up without you etc etc? NO! It's aviation - supply and demand - life - if you want stability and lifestyle become a plumber!

BTW whats a buggie smuggler? I wouldnt want any bugs down where I usually keep my Budgie.

Capt Jack Sparrow

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

Ahh good to see we are back on thread! I was just thinking about the post that said we should be plumbers for a stable income. Which group of employees in Australia have the most stable working conditions and why? Can we learn from their example?

Can we safely say no intl J* pilots have left for shores far away?

[The Pirate]

As far as my spies know, no, no-one has gone. But that does not mean they wont in the fullness of time. An A320 capt in India can double his J* salary. But one would have to live in Mumbai, Bangalore or Dehli. Its all about lifestyle and what you want out of it.

I could have become an Civil Engineer, Draftsman, Surveyer or a Farmer or any type of tradesperson.

Now who would be a farmer? They really HAVE got something to whinge about. The others on my list all do reasonable well and can go overseas if they want to earn better wages. I know of a young man who speciallises in Stone Walls who quadrupled his salary by going to England.

I know people in all the above trades/professions but none of the bitch and whinge like pilots do. Even the farmers!

[Mr.Buzzy]

Isn't it interesting that the high school drop outs at the airport security (?) checkpoint have more authority and power than the Captain of the ship? I was certainly born at the right time -- to require me to retire before being thrown in jail for telling the homeland insecurity folks what I think of them and their mothers.


Well, the good news is, today I officially retire from ******* Airlines and I was hired last week for a Service Advisor job in the automotive division of Sears (which is the first real job I had while going to college and loved it and it's what I want to do in my old age) – pay is good and it includes full medical, dental, 401k & profit sharing – should be more than enough even without the retirement money – may still consider the same line of work at a regular dealership at some point; covering my six for now ……

I'll be home every night. No more check rides – no FEDS or commuters on my jump seat taking up my office space – no more 25% PENALTY for being legitimately sick – no more scum bag hotels – no more old bitchy flight attendants – no more 14 hour duty days with 10 hour layovers – no more drafting my butt downline to fly the remains of somebody else's trip because they can't staff the airline correctly – no more zero/zero approaches into blinding thunderstorms or blizzards – no more strip searches at the security checkpoints by high school drop-outs (my I.D. means nothing) – no more Subway sandwiches at the airport served by Somalis that can never get my order right.

Can't sit down and have a hot meal between legs at a nice restaurant cause there's not enough time – no more missed recitals, birthdays or holidays – no more 3:30 am (body clock) wakeup calls on the east coast – no more number 20 for take off behind 18 little regional jets at La Guardia – no more company bus rides from the employee parking lot in machines, where either the rear door doesn't work or the A.C. or heat is out of order – no more "fear and intimidation style management" to live under. (The head honcho of the Sears store actually gave me the second and final interview – not normal.)" He actually wanted to “meet me" and said I should consider a position in management with my credentials and philosophies about how I believe people should be treated and that he was really happy to see someone like me consider a position with his company … he told me I would be an asset to any organization, unlike my current employer, that has always "behind the scenes" regarded me and my peers as liabilities and prima donnas. Go figure! I'm not unique. Most pilots at this point still fit the same mold. Unfortunately that mold is slowly and methodically being reshaped by corporate robber barons into something they can shackle to a yoke and, who they hope, will never question the methods to their madness.

The more I re-read this e-mail, the more I wonder why it has taken me so long to come to this decision to hang up flying – oh yeah, it's cause I couldn't touch my retirement money till now, penalty free. I'm finally ready for the simpler life with considerably less stress. It used to be that the airline rewarded us for all these little inconveniences we take for granted and the time we spend away from home and family that was part of our daily lives in this profession. We made good money, had considerable time off and the benefits were to brag about. That is no longer the case. My plumber makes more a year now than I do. His labor rate alone is $95.00/hr when he set my kitchen sink last May and he's a high school drop out. His yearly salary is based on a 160 hour work month (40 a week)!

My $93.00/hr and annual salary is based on an 80 hour month (hard time in the air) with considerably more time on duty and away from home. I suspect the New Airline Pilot of the future will probably be one of those kids you remember in high school that got out of classes on a 2:30pm work permit to go learn a trade because they weren't particularly bright. Of course he'll have to be on some kind of government program to pay for his training. There's no way he'll be able to come up with the $100,000.00 in flight training costs to get his licenses, and you'll never see another military pilot leave the armed forces for an air carrier position where it will take almost his entire career to reach the salary he left behind at his military job.

I would not recommend this profession anymore to anyone I really cared about. My guess is the airline industry will have to lower their standards as well as their requirements as the airplanes get more automated (the FAA will agree) if they're gonna get any applicants. Let the buyer beware when he takes his next airplane ride in the future. I have absolutely no regrets about getting out while the getting is good. I used to love my job and the adventure that every trip brought. It's just no fun going to work anymore. It's all about quality of life – unfortunately, you don't figure that out till you're on the back side of the clock, in most careers, and in the big scheme of things, approaching your own ultimate demise.

Life is really too short to devote one extra minute of your time to a company as well as a profession that is not everything you had hoped for. I'm baffled trying to think of another industry that has so brutally passed on the increased costs of doing business to their employees rather than their customers. Even my garbage man is charging a surcharge for fuel to me rather than rape his employees.



Gnadenburg
Agree with you and many of the sentiments you have shown in the past. ( yes there have been a few exceptions but such is the way )
The letter above only shows that Australian pilots are not the only target of bean counting tall poppy loppers.
Thanks for your passion, hopefully some will rub off on others and we may have a chance at uniting ourselves once again.

Seasons greetings to yourself and other Ppruners (Even you Chris Higgins!) Best wishes to all for 07. Signing out 'til the new year.

Buzzy.

bbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zz

[The Pirate]

Anyway, as one J* pilot leaves he will be instantly be replaced from the seething pool of ambitious young pilots awaiting without. So it is movement; pilots moving upward. That cant be all bad; so who is complaining? Already "airline established" pilots that want a free ride to the top?

Or would you have these young pilots say "Oh No, I cant join J*, they are beyond the pale, voting in a naughty EBA. No, I'll stay on my Metro a bit longer! I didnt really want a Jet anyway!"

Peeease! Give me break! Get real you guys!

[3 Holer]

I know people in all the above trades/professions but none of the bitch and whinge like pilots do.

You're right Jack, they're all out working their asses off and don't have the time for idle chat! :E

[max autobrakes]

Spot on "last post" so to speak Mr buzzy.
All the best to you and your significant others.
Hope you have a very happy retirement.
You lucky sod.
I think this industry is going to get very ugly ,very quickly.:sad:

[The Pirate]

It's not Buzzy who's leaving! He's Quoting another!

But it is spot on!

Capt Jack Sparrow.