Pilots leaveing City Jet turns into a flood

[The Lone Ranger]

A total of 5 capatains have left City Jet within the last week. 3 for Emirate's,1 for Easy Jet and 1 for Dragon. A considerable amount of f/o's are to resign next month to join Ryan Air. Recent management "communications meetings" have being attended by as few as 3 pilots at at time. If management have still not got the message that morale is at an all time low by now they never will.
It is vitally important that City Jet pilots attent the IALPA meetings that are scheduled to start shortly. It is also vital that City Jet pilots realise that all IALPA needs is more than 50% of pilots to vote for a City Jet working group. The pilots that vote may not nessecarily be members of IALPA,or turn up at IALPA meetings, but the fact that they vote will give IALPA the mandate to represent us.You can still remain totally annonymouse and escape management bullying. Details will follow. Support IALPA and things will change for the better.,

[inveritas]

The French were expecting to get PB on a free transfer from FR but he ain't moving.

[Capt.Paul Skinback]

Don't tell me Jack the Knife is still there throwing his insignificant weight and height around???
Oh well, what goes round comes round. Shame.

[Carmoisine]

Capt.Paul Skinback You have my sympathy, I work for the Evil Empire accross the road and no doubt the downward pressure your employer is trying to apply to your salary and terms and conditions is as a direct affect of what they see happening over here. Monkey see Monkey do. It should be a stark warning to Pilots in all Airlines that a sneering "I'm allright Jack" attitude will turn around and give them a major bite in the ass.

The only way for you guys in Cityjet is to get yourself organised. I can tell you from what I've seen IALPA are the business, they certainly shame the likes of BALPA. Wishing you the best from accross the road!

[PhoenixRising]

Capt.Paul Skinback
The only way for you guys in Cityjet is to get yourself organised. I can tell you from what I've seen IALPA are the business, they certainly shame the likes of BALPA. Wishing you the best from accross the road!
Couldn't agree more. You need to support IALPA and get yourselves represented. It's the only way to stop the poor treatment and downward slide in terms and conditions.

CityJet Ltd, also trading as Ryanair Lite...

[Carmoisine]

What about all these US Pilots they were going to get?

No one in Cityjet top brass can be suprised they are loosing people. Their Salary is crap. 33K STG a year for a Captain is hardly anything to get excited about is it?

[banana head]

Ah yes - and the beatings WILL continue until pilot morale improves. You've been warned :E
It's the wx way.....

[iwagg]

Why are so many pilots leaving CityJet? What is the current pay for Captains there? I might be interviewing there in the near future so any info would be a great help.
Thanks,
Iwagg






A total of 5 capatains have left City Jet within the last week. 3 for Emirate's,1 for Easy Jet and 1 for Dragon. A considerable amount of f/o's are to resign next month to join Ryan Air. Recent management "communications meetings" have being attended by as few as 3 pilots at at time. If management have still not got the message that morale is at an all time low by now they never will.
It is vitally important that City Jet pilots attent the IALPA meetings that are scheduled to start shortly. It is also vital that City Jet pilots realise that all IALPA needs is more than 50% of pilots to vote for a City Jet working group. The pilots that vote may not nessecarily be members of IALPA,or turn up at IALPA meetings, but the fact that they vote will give IALPA the mandate to represent us.You can still remain totally annonymouse and escape management bullying. Details will follow. Support IALPA and things will change for the better.,

[captplaystation]

I applied a few years ago, and cocked up and missed my Ryanair flight from BVA and the planned interview. Whilst I regretted it at the time( as I was living in Paris) their subsequent attitude , and the salary / conditions I retrospectively heard of years later, led me to believe I had a lucky escape.Travelled as a pax with them a few times when I did a bit of Fokkering out of CDG with Gill , and always found our AF franchise competitor's crews friendly and welcoming, but always felt I was being intoxicated by Bae`s finest fumes in the cabin. If they are calling you Ryanairlite it sounds time to move (seriously) up, or out.

[b17heavy]

Knock a fiver off the ticket price gov, luvely jubley, every ones a winner. Make everything cheap and nasty…..:ugh:

[Nighty]

Whats up with the morale at cityjet? OK, money is always an issue but in most cases the company morale is depending on a couple of subtle details. :sad: Or if I asked the other way around: Could a salary increase alone boost the morale? :cool: Is there a difference between Dublin and Paris based crews? What need to be done and can it be done?
Good luck anyway!

[splitbar]

Cityjet is has/is hiring former RJ85 Captains / FO's from Mesaba Airlines. Captain pay is almost $100K and FO pay is around $65K and the income is tax free. Plus cityjet is giving each Mesaba pilot their own furnished apartment + a car. They have offered Mesaba pilots 1 year contracts and it sounds like their will be a good chance to extended the contract if cityjet is indeed short staffed. It sounds like a pretty good compensation package to me. Do the 1 year Mesaba contracts fall in line with how the other cityjet pilots are compensated?

[curser]

How are City Jet employing american certified pilots? Did the guys convert thier qualifications by sitting all the JAA exams? Can European pilots now work in the US? This isnt a party political broadcast but in asking around I have heard differing explanations and a good deal of woffle.

[sarah737]

Cityjet is has/is hiring former RJ85 Captains / FO's from Mesaba Airlines. Captain pay is almost $100K and FO pay is around $65K and the income is tax free.

That was probably BEFORE the recent french law which states that if your operational base is in france you have to pay social security (and probably soon taxes as well) in france, whatever company you work for wherever you live. So be carefull with tax free....

[splitbar]

How much are French taxes? Is it pretty similiar to the US where if you make $100K gross you will net about $70

[acebaxter]

A total of 5 capatains have left City Jet . Support IALPA and things will change for the better.,

Interesting statement. After over a decade at an ALPA carrier my observation was that for 1.95 percent of your gross pay they would give great lip service to the needs of the regional pilots while spending all of their time supporting the needs of the mainline pilot.

I'll never willingly give another penny to ALPA.

[banana head]

I'll never willingly give another penny to ALPA

'ALPA', the US Airline Pilots Association, are a very different organisation to 'IALPA', the Irish Airline Pilots Association :hmm:

There is, quite literally, an ocean between them.
The world does not revolve around the ‘US’ acebaxter.... (despite CityJet's current recruitment policy).

[captplaystation]

How can US pilots be employed in Europe. Ask the IAA , who have always allowed Ryanair a "little" bit of latitude in whom they employ. For further clarification rearrange the following words to reproduce a malicious accusation. . . . . . . bag, cash ,paper ,full of, brown. As far as taxes go, City Jet is not Air France so the core operation is in Dublin. This normally should result in City Jet being allowed to pay your social charges in Ireland , and you likewise your taxes, to your mutual benefit. The Frogs can come knocking on your door to claim the shortfall between what you paid in Ireland , and what you would have paid in France, but as you guys (still ? ) nightstop quite a bit, with decent advice on what you can offset against tax - a lot - they could actually end up owing you money, so I don't think that is too much of a worry.

[sarah737]

As far as taxes go, City Jet is not Air France so the core operation is in Dublin. This normally should result in City Jet being allowed to pay your social charges in Ireland

CPS, there is a brand new law in france which states that if your operational base is in france, you will pay social security in france even if you work for an Irish company. The victims are: CitiJet, Ryanair and Easy...

[splitbar]

Interesting Sarah. How much of a $100,000 salary will go towards Social Security tax in France?

[ZBMAN]

CPS, there is a brand new law in france which states that if your operational base is in france, you will pay social security in france even if you work for an Irish company. The victims are: CitiJet, Ryanair and Easy...

Bit more complicated than that Sarah.

eJ for sure will be taking legal action against that, as apprently it breaches EU Law. Wouldn't be the first time France is forced by the EU to back down.

In any case the legal procedings could take years, so it is unlikely the situation of those flyng for cityjet or eJ will change in the forseable future.

As for tax in France, it is a bit difficult to evaluate, as the system is much much more complicated than in the uk. I would say ballpark figure would be 50% of your gross salary will go towards tax (NI, income tax etc...). Also you will be taxed on the value of your house if you own one. Therefore it is my understanding that the foreign carrier crews working in France are quite happy to pay tax elsewhere, quite understandably!

[Carmoisine]

Ekka, I don't work for Cityjet, I work across the road for Ryanair. I can tell you what is upsetting people though, because the same thing happens over here too. Neither of these airlines pays an appropriate salary or has terms and conditions good enough to attract and retain experienced European Nationals with JAA licenses.

They then somehow get permission from the Government for work permits for a host of Nationalities like Americans and Brazilians to name but a very few. You come over and work for this lower salary; you exploit yourselves and the others here. This is doubly galling as there is no way in hell that a US carrier or the government would allow this. The fact that these airlines have convinced the Government in Ireland there is a genuine shortage of Pilots is a scandal. What puts the cherry on the cake, and I say this loud and clear- I am not talking about Cityjet Pilots, some of these people coming in then do not pay any income tax, anywhere.

I would just like to add that I am not a member of the BNP or a xenophobic nutcase. I have many good friends on the flight deck from the host of Nations. This is not about you as an American. It is about the Government allowing a situation to develop that should never be there.

Although it angers me my professionalism, which is our downfall sometimes with these exploitative employers, stops me from treating my oversea colleagues any different.

Welcome to Ireland, the Guinness does taste better and the girls are beautiful!

[Carmoisine]

Ekka, I forgot to add another point. I currently carry loans exceeding 100,000 Euros. This is what it costs a European to get all their ratings, and of course here in Europe we have painted ourselves into a corner by paying for our type ratings too. I could have saved about 50K Euros by taking FAA licences and getting a Validation from the IAA. They won't let me but they will let people from Outside the EU. It is very strange behaviour. Those of us who know how the IAA operate are not suprised.

I can also say as a Statement of fact that even though the IAA will say that they will only give a validation for a period of one year, during which the 14 ATPL exams have to be done. People seem to be granted multiple validations without having sat any exams. Again this is not against the Americans or the Brazilians or any other nationality but it should not be happening.

I'm not going to get into a cultural and political pissing match in anonymity on a public website.

Good move. Have you seen how completely mental people go in Jetblast!?

Best of Luck again.

[cityjet]

Hello,


If your not happy at Cityjet, just get out and leave all the people that are happy alone. If you have problems bring it up with the management. Morale is still high, it always will be Cityjet have very enthuisatic crews when working, yes we complain about the management but who doesn't. Just for the Record, the americans are decent guys, they work and they are good lads. Dont take it out on them, its the management you want to have a word with.

Fairplay !!!!!! Everyone deserve a change!

[puddlehopper]

cityjet do not treat all there kids fairly , you have the training Dept,1 rule.Our American brothers,rule 2, and our favorite kid , rule 3.
All you are left with then are a few line drivers.
The girls get treated like crap ,bullied, and brused.Stay away ALL.
In some cases they are worse then ryneair.At least they are straight about it.:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[General Dogsbody]

The real problem is nothing to do with Licenses or nationality, it is the fact that the American Pilots are on a significantly better deal then any other line pilot in the company!.
They have a higher salary, housing allowance and car allowance, this is all probably worth three grand more a month then the rest of us are on.

The pilots in Cityjet have no one to blame but themselves, they take this treatment from management. Rather then crib about the Americans deal they should fight to get the same package themselves, then we will see what management have to say. :} :}

[General Dogsbody]

Yes I have the answers from the Horses mouth,
These guys experiance levels are not any higher then very many pilots in Cityjet.
Can you imagine the uproar in the Good Ole' USA if Masebe brought a bunch of European pilots over and paid them more then there local colleagues.:ugh:

[banana head]

Ekka
Jeez Banana head - struck a nerve have we? I think Acebaxter was probably thinking of IFALPA, which is most certainly related to ALPA in the US

Acebaxter was not referring to IFALPA! He was moaning about paying his subs to 'US ALPA', which is fine, except it is of no relevance to this thread and of no interest to anyone in CityJet, anymore than the price of bread in Walmart....

Personally I have no issue with crew of any nationality working for any Irish carrier, provided those individuals are recruited on the same basis as EU licence holders, and provided they are employed under the same terms and conditions. Is that not what you Americans refer to as a fair deal?

[General Dogsbody]

Ekka,

please refer to my last point, Can you imagine the uproar in the Good Ole' USA if Masebe brought a bunch of European pilots over and paid them more then there local colleagues.
True some of these guys are very experianced however funnily enough there are experianced pilots in Cityjet, my point is there package which includes Housing and a car is far better, not just a little, then there equivelant European pilot.
Yes you are right contracts are private, I am only going on what I was told by one of these guys, However how can pilots plan a career in an airline that has two classes of membership:ugh:

[Carmoisine]

However we are a unionized work group so fortunately this couldn't happen at Mesaba

This is really the nub of the problem for the Cityjet guys. It is strange logic you use though. "It's ok as long as it is not in my backyard".

[puddlehopper]

That is always said to pilots, if you are not happy ,GET OUT. Thats the answer of a lazy manager,for info morale in city jet is :mad: .They are a bunch of ex so called military pilots,who were bullied in the military,and thats all they know to do well.

[louiswharf]

How can we increase utilisation of the aircraft, eg decrease the turn around times??

Sorry friends, but I felt a little humour was called for.


S ure
I ts
G ot
M ostly
A ircorp
R angers

[CamelhAir]

This situation seems to have many similarities to ryanair. What is it about Irish so-called managers and their inability to people manage. Numbers they may be good at, but true leadership is non-existant. As ever, this will come home to roost at some point, as it seems to be doing now in cityjet.

Puddlehopper - "leave if you're not happy" sounds like the ryanair solution to gripes as well. Finally we seem, in ryanair, to realise that staying and fighting to improve matters might be a good option too. You can't keep running forever so its time to support whatever initiative IALPA may have. Remember, you'll still be flying long after your management are out to pasture and enjoying the spoils of your labour. And if cityjet are as stuck for pilots as is claimed, now's the time to hit them hard. The company won't get in trouble for treating you right, but it'll improve your lot a whole lot if it works out.

Ekka - I can tell you from a ryanair point of view why the cityjet situation might aggrieve people. It's the lack of reciprocality, the blatant bribing of the IAA, the undercutting of conditions, the blocking out of jobs for "natives". Nothing against the individuals concerned as people, however they are, unwittingly no doubt, perpetuating the problems just mentioned. Would it happen in the USA? No way, and that's as it should be. However, let's keep it fair. Ultimately no pilot is the winner here. You are merely aiding and abetting those who seek to destroy our profession.

They are a bunch of ex so called military pilots,who were bullied in the military,and thats all they know to do well.

Sounds like ryanair too. Funny how the slower and less armed the "military" aircraft is, the bigger the bully, the more useless and spineless the manager and the grander the war stories. With that in mind, remember that the pride of the Irish "Aer Corps" is the Cessna 172....*

* - Just for our American friends, the "military" pilots of the Aer Corps flew such grand machines as the C172, the King Air and the Marchetti. The average WW2 Spitfire squadron would have no trouble destroying the entire force in about 5 mins flat.

[puddlehopper]

[
Sorry friends, but I felt a little humour was called for.

humour is always good,i feel like i know you,going through the war ,take care

[banana head]

Hey CamelhAir

The average WW2 Spitfire squadron would have no trouble destroying the entire force in about 5 mins flat.

I agree, and that's allowing for the fact that the 'few' who are still alive are in their 90's by now :E

[Captain Chaos]

So much for your ceo giveing a lecture on how to retain pilots.
We have our own recruiting officer within City Jet that takes the form of a "smeegal". This guy constanly fails people in the sim and on the line and pisses them off so much that they come and join us here at Ryan Air.Despite what one American seems to suggest that the experience of City Jet pilots is some how inferior to his, nothing could be further from the truth. We have had no problem with any of the City Jet pilots we have here. They are all ace(well almost all).
Anybody from City Jet is welcome here. All you gotta do is pass the sim check and your in.
Smeegal, you keep failing them,and we'll keep hireing them!!

[remoak]

All these Americans are doing is trying to improve their lives and careers.

At the expense of their European colleagues...

There is no way they could know this sentiment truly existed before they signed.

This whole topic was extensively aired here on PPRuNe a few months back, and there were contributions from your side of the pond, so you are wrong there. More to the point, you have to be rather naive to think that a whole bunch of American pilots turning up to fly in Ireland is going to be greeted with great glee by your Irish counterparts.

As others have said, this would never be allowed in the US, so why do you think the Irish pilots are going to be happy about it? How is it that you don't get that you are disadvantaging Irish pilots? If the reverse DID happen in the US, and a flood of Irish pilots disadvantaged you, how would you feel?

Pretty angry, I would think.

You can't just say "it's not the pilots' fault". They knew that they would be having the effect described above - you would have to be pretty foolish not to.

[goingdown]

I advise the cityjet guys to talk to AF unions about it.I am sure they will be pleased to know what 's going on in WX.

[CamelhAir]

I agree, and that's allowing for the fact that the 'few' who are still alive are in their 90's by now

Well to make it fair you'd need something to compensate for flying against aircraft that stall if you actually fire anything!

[puddlehopper]

Hello,


If your not happy at Cityjet, just get out and leave all the people that are happy alone. If you have problems bring it up with the management. Morale is still high, it always will be Cityjet have very enthuisatic crews when working, yes we complain about the management but who doesn't. Just for the Record, the americans are decent guys, they work and they are good lads. Dont take it out on them, its the management you want to have a word with.

Fairplay !!!!!! Everyone deserve a change!
Moral is in the toilet,unless you are one of the chosen few,eg, x brown shoes,or k*** ass ,you sound like the latter.Icould care less about the americans,its the european pilots,that need to be looked after,but you sound like an ime okay jack, kind of person.Thats all the world needs is more of you.:ok:

[ImBatman]

So whats the story with the Ialpa meetings coming up, will many go?????
What cna Ialpa really do tho.......

[sarah737]

Bit more complicated than that Sarah.

eJ for sure will be taking legal action against that, as apprently it breaches EU Law. Wouldn't be the first time France is forced by the EU to back down.

In any case the legal procedings could take years, so it is unlikely the situation of those flyng for cityjet or eJ will change in the forseable future.


It looks like the french want the social security and tax NOW, easy Paris base was raided yesterday by 30-40 french policemen, tax- and labourinspectors...they told the people that Citi and Ryan would be next!

[GGV]

ImBatman I think the problem for IALPA is likely to be that few Cityjet pilots seem to have joined (though I hasten to add that I simply don't know the numbers, but that is my impression). IALPA have done a lot where pilots join up or where they show some desire to do something (e.g. Ryanair). If you and your colleagues cannot even attend a meeting ....

[CamelhAir]

ImBatman
There was once a similar attitude in ryanair. The 21st dec will reveal just how much IALPA can do for you.
What harm in at least listening to them? If you think you will achieve anything other than having to leave the company by working without a union, you are mistaken. Once upon a time some ryanair pilots thought they could do without a union, the folly of their ways is now clear to them.
Without active union membership, degradation of T&C's will continue in cityjet, and elsewhere, and, frankly, if you don't at least try to change things, you will deserve it and have no right to moan ever again.
Cityjet management, no doubt, don't give a sh1t about you, you only have each other to improve matters.
Carpe diem.

[flat-tire]

At least the Irish have a shot at the US green card lottery, unlike the English.
Wait, didn’t most of Ireland migrate to the States. Call up an ancestor and ask for some sponsorship, or marry a bird or bloke pending your taste.

Anyway why do American pilots want to work for Cityjet? If they have thousands of hours on large regional aircraft why not work for one of the Majors in the States? From what I hear they are all hiring or calling back. Also why don’t the Irish or EU pilots just refuse to fly with the US pilots? Take a stand against these contract pilots. Listen to "CamelhAir".

Oh, and I took the 14 exams so quit your whing'n.

[downbound]

I used to work for CityJet, and I can agree with what is written here before. This is what I remember from my two years there, as F/O and Cpt.

Short, it is a ****-place to work.

The reason is the management pilots, who you as a pilot is most in contact with, and the culture they create.

It's a culture of pure punishment. The sim-sessions are checking rather than training, but not only that, if they don't like you they will fail you for anything no matter how you fly. This is probably even more true regarding the linechecks.
I witnessed many people that were completely :mad: regarding their upgrade. CityJet have no seniority scale and upgrade comes when you have the hours. Normally everyone that applies gets the interview, but either you :mad: there or during the sim-check that follows. Ok, some might not pass the selection, yes, but here it is pure politics. If you once did a mistake (mistake being everything from getting caught reading on the flightdeck, eating the same time as the other guy, not copying via volmet all the weather in central Europe on a flight from CDG to ZRH, not simply being liked by chief pilot etc etc) you will never get the upgrade.

Pilots have been so disappointed with, among others, the chief pilot, that they avoid his room in the office. In other companies I've worked in the chief pilots door is always open and you can pop in for a chat or a coffee. In CityJet his door is also open, but people avoid it... and there is good reasons to do so.

Crewcontrol has no respect of you private life, they constantly call you on days off and sometimes even during vacation. You start as a new guy doing them favour after favour, but understand soon that you will get nothing back (that is doing a swap, or arrange a day off och vacation for a medical appointment, funeral or other whatever family event). Crewplanning and crewcontrol have a few members who seem to come straight from an Irish highschool (cheap?) and are happy to control a pilot, and they come with no respect what so ever. I don't need much respect, but after all we fly (I flew) for Air France with up to 100 pax onboard. I thought that I ought to be spoken to and treated better than I was.
On that subject, you will never get the vacation you request, if you get any vacation at all. Sometimes it just appears on your roster because it suits the company so. I worked there for two years, and left CityJet with more than a years vacation. And yes, I was applying for vacation frequently.

After two years in the company I was totally exhausted. For one thing the lack of vacation, and the other that you work a lot... Having friends in Ryan and easyJet coming from CityJet, they say they are not tired after a four sector day, simply because the aircraft. The 146 is very demanding to fly, even more demanding with the maintenace in CityJet (APU and autopilot very often u/s).
Me flying a "modern" aircraft now, don't have that problem anymore. I work for a company who respects you and your private life, the rosters are more human and you can actually use the vacation that is legally yours.

Having said this, I would recommend CityJet for unexperienced pilots. You get good hours quick, and you'll develop excellent flying skills in the classic cockpit with sometimes no autopilot, and if you stay a few yaers you will have your upgrade. And after all, it is a company within Groupe Air France.

But, for experienced pilots there are many other much better options out there. (Unless you come on a contract and can cash the big €.) But as a longterm job it won't work. You will feel it soon, the lack of energy in you body, as well the psychological pressure. Even if you only see great colleges (many of them!), the only thing you natrually talk about is the :mad: going on in the company.

Good Luck!

[dartagnan]

I dont have anything against US citizen coming to Europe, as long they spend their money here and go home after VISITING europe( for 2-3 weeks). outside of this, you are the unwelcome and you are "technically" illegal in Europe if you come to work here.

when I see the numbers of emails from EU friends contacting me, cuz they have no job and can not get experience, I think this is disgusting to know what the Irish government is doing to them after spending a fortune in their JAR license.

to all US citizen:"GO HOME !"

[splitbar]

I dont have anything against US citizen coming to Europe, as long they spend their money here and go home after VISITING europe( for 2-3 weeks). outside of this, you are the unwelcome and you are "technically" illegal in Europe if you come to work here.

when I see the numbers of emails from EU friends contacting me, cuz they have no job and can not get experience, I think this is disgusting to know what the Irish government is doing to them after spending a fortune in their JAR license.

to all US citizen:"GO HOME !"

Why does Cityjet pay the American pilots more and give them housing also? Isn't it cheaper for Cityjet to just hire local pilots and to upgrade from within? I find it hard to believe that they can't fill their vacancies without having to offer US pilots lucrative contracts. My friends flying there will be facing tough decisions soon as to resign their Mesaba seniority #'s or stay and Cityjet and roll the dice. There is speculation that after the 1 year contract, the terms for renewal wont be as good including no housing + they will have to get their JAR.

[louiswharf]

Isn't it cheaper for Cityjet to just hire local pilots and to upgrade from within? I find it hard to believe that they can't fill their vacancies without having to offer US pilots lucrative contracts. they will have to get their JAR.

Yes it would be cheaper! And yes the more lucrative the contact the more it costs the company, but the more cream licked off by the cats. Catching my drift?
Who are the contracts with again?
Re: lesser contract after one year, well I doubt it, cats need their cream.
Re: having to obtain a JAR licence well I should F??K??G think so
How one can be employed in an Irish company flying Irish and UK reg aircraft on FAA licence' is beyond me!

[mickmccarthy]

And would 1 year be long enough to get the licence? I doubt it,
http://www.tuckborough.net/images/gollum.jpg remember the exams, not exactly ppl stuff from what I recall. When you finish the exams u kind of look like this!

[The Lone Ranger]

3 more Captains going shortly. Now with Aer Lingus hireing on top of the ryan air f/o's one wonders will there be anybody left!!

[downbound]

That's great! I wonder if they will do anything about it? Maybe they can punish the ones that's left a little more.... :ugh:

[The Lone Ranger]

Another f/o for easy jet and a senior captain about to hand in his resignation for same!!!!!!!!!!

[puddlehopper]

[quote=The Lone Ranger;3040407]3 more Captains going shortly. Now with Aer Lingus hireing on top of the ryan air f/o's one wonders will there be anybody left!!

This Co dose not deserve the people it has,the sooner everyone gets out and leave it to those military types the better.125 staff left last year thats 25% ,that says it all,managers :ok: :ok: you guys should be proud of your work ,if you keep going at this rate all that will be left are military,americans, and Gimps.

[splitbar]

A few of my buddies, "The Americans", seem somewhat happy there. They say it is a lot of work with no dispatch ect. but they have said that everyone is very professional. If they are indeed unhappy then I'm sure they would not proudly admit it and just suck it up and finish up their 1 year contract. It will be interesting to see who skips their Mesaba furlough recall in order to stay on with CityJet. Tough decision for some I am sure. What are some specifics of why everyone is so unhappy with CityJet? Just curious since I am in talks with David Finn to join the company.

[downbound]

As an old CityJet-pilot, being unfairly treated for a couple of years, to hear and read all this is like music in my ears!

Too bad I couldn't experience all this from the inside, it would be worth it. :D

I really hope Air France will react on the CityJet management of potatofarmers!

[SkyteamPA]

I've just spent the last hour reading all the messages of that thread and I feel like my arms are falling off.
I didn't realize the pilots' situation was that bad in CityJet and I thank you all for your inputs that will sure open our eyes wider.
I really hope Air France will react on the CityJet management of potatofarmers!
Well I don't know if AF knows as much as I seem to have learned tonight, but rest assured that we will make them react!
Things are going to have to change.

[Echo 97]

The chickens are coming home to roost. After years of silence, its all coming out now.
Whos going to be next out? Management claim that only a minority were looking elsewhere. Oops, got that one a bit wrong.
Seems that maybe something should change. But that would be to admit they screwed up, so looks like we’ll getting more of the same. The military geniuses in charge seem to think that if bullying works as a control method on the parade ground, itll work just as well with civilian pilots and cabin crew. But looks like the feckin civilians dont appreciate such good management and all the ungrateful feckers want to do is leave! Wonder why….

To those Americans and other prospective joiners who wonder what’s wrong, where to start?
Firstly management style is like George Bush, you’re either with us or against us. With us means you will happily see your life screwed up on a whim, will never ever ever complain, will pretend management mean it when they act all friendly. You will pretend cityjet is a great company with great prospects and that you have no interest in joining Aer Lingus or Easyjet (after all, who really wants to fly an Airbus?), that you never want to leave and that unions are a very bad thing and that management really care about you.
Failure to adhere to any of these traits means your against us and your life will be made hell.
You will also be treated like a child. For example, you are not allowed into the CDG ramp office on turnarounds and if you dare go in, you will be reported by the work-shy HR rep.
Rostering: You may be in command of a passenger jet airliner, but your life will in the command of an untrained 20year old who previously worked in Pennys. Cityjet is great if you like 6 and 7 day weeks followed by 2 days off. There is no pattern and no predictability, rosters are only published at the last minute, then will be changed regularly. There is no work practice agreement at all. Turnarounds are very long, so a 3 short sector day can take over 10 duty hours. If you do them a favour, you will never see a return for it. The company love to talk about “flexibility”. This means, in reality, that they have carte blanche to f**k you about as they see fit. You have no comeback except to go sick.
Leave: impossible to get (not enough pilots to give everyone leave). Allocated according to if youre liked or not.
The Chief Pilot: Hard to know whether to laugh or cry. Impossible to talk to (unless smart ass comments count as conversation). Likes to do things like fail pilots for removing their tie after push back on line checks. Also thinks that emergency checklist need not necessarily be followed in certain cases if its commercially better to continue. Health and safety: Cityjet is great if you’re on a diet, cos you wont be fed on board. Constant hunger is a companion. Mostly you’re parked on remote stands to getting food in the terminal is impossible. And bringing your own is not an option as by day 4 of a trip, its not going to be very hygienic. It is almost impossible to get food to eat on board downroute due to staying in airport hotels with no shops nearby. After a 10 hour duty day with no food, its not exactly very safe. Numerous reports have gone in, but the company claim every time they never heard about it before. The IAA of course say nothing. So everybody flies around tired, hungry and fatigued.
The aircraft: The aircraft are in a terrible state, all at least 20 years old, the MEL is needed on almost every sector. There is pressure to take very bad aircraft. How about no autopilot into Zurich on a bad winters night? Or across the Alps with only 1 pack? The contract engineers have been heard to say they wouldn’t put their families on the aircraft.
There is also fuel pressure which some people listen to. What kind of a company has the engineers flag that aircraft were regularly arriving in with very low fuel loads?
Training: You are not trained with knowledge, knowledge is beaten into you. The training philosophy is that you are either military (and therefore a total genius) or not (in which case you are totally unable to fly). The main method of correcting mistakes in training is being shouted at. In fact, there is no such thing as training, its actually an extended line check starting from day 1. Unless your military again, in which case an inability to pass line-training in under 100 sectors is not considered a handicap. Not surprising I suppose considering the head of training has difficulty with FL100 v FL110 and a senior training captain thinks landing in CDG with no FO and no call to ATC is good behaviour (both ex-military of course).
Command upgrade: No seniority here. Interviews are held, but in reality its pre-selected. Military is a decided advantage, no command checks required. How about an FO from other company, on another type, getting direct entry command with no command check and then getting a sim job within weeks? Guess what, hes buddies with the right people. On the other hand, many FO’s have been told by the chief pilot that they will never get command.
Pay: Very poor, people leave to go Ryanair to improve it!! The overnight allowance hasn’t increased in several years. The basic pay increase is less than inflation. Management call it a pay “agreement”, although not one pilot was ever consulted. We need IALPA NOW to fix the situation.

So why do they act like this? The answer is Sigmar aviation. The management of cityjet and sigmar are one and same. Guess who supplies the contract pilots? So permanent pilots leaving lowers the payroll and allows more contractors in, so more kick back for the bosses. And guess who owns the houses they live in? And why do DUB crews do so many overnights? Guess who takes a commission for booking all those hotel rooms?

Splitbar:
Your contact is known as the “Smiling Assassin.” With good reason. Like a politican, tells you what you want to hear. Not that you’ll ever actually see any promises come good.

SkyteamPA:
Im not surprised your shocked, most AF pilots know little about cityjet. This is how some pilots flying AF flights are treated.

This is not the company where you wonder who’ll leave next, it’s the company you wonder who will still actually be here in 6 months, never mind a year. The symbol of cityjet is a goose, however it looks more like a turkey, which is very appropriate.

[heaveymetal76er]

Interesting statement. After over a decade at an ALPA carrier my observation was that for 1.95 percent of your gross pay they would give great lip service to the needs of the regional pilots while spending all of their time supporting the needs of the mainline pilot.

I'll never willingly give another penny to ALPA.

ALPA could care less about small carriers

Ask any of the old Western Airlines pilots. Company was dying on the vine, brought in a great CEO. The pilots created a plan to save the airline-which helped save the airline-, ALPA tried to shutdown our MEC. Because we would not do things their way.

And of course there is the famous front page of the Miami Herald. Picture from the fold up shows the hangar doors closed at Eastern Airlines. Headline: Eastern closes doors forever. Head of ALPA and IAW standing with their fist in the air. The quote says, “WE WON”, and thirty thousand people we unemployed. The only thing ALPA cares about is themselves.

[goingdown]

SkyteamPA,

This situation is known by AF management and some senior AF pilots.As far as Cityjet is profitable no questions ask.The only thing that will stop this dramatic story is AF...or an accident!What Echo97 has described is the truth,no exagerration.You have to believe him i witnessed all of that,and i know that some french unions are aware as well.

Good luck to you all.

[The Lone Ranger]

Bottom line is they don't give a sh*t about us.Any normal company would be up in arms with postings on pprune with such venim.
Why should they give a sh*t. A normal company would buy a sim for itself to make the company more profitable. And perhaps,maybe perhaps give their employee's a pay rise.But not this crowd. Lets buy a sim for ourselves and rent it to the company and pocket the profits.
The more people leave the busier the sim and the more money we'll make!Why should they give a **** about us?
This goes for everything in cityjet.From hireing contract pilots to booking your rooms. See its all about getting a bigger piece of the cake.

And what about the Air France board???Well they either dont care,have their hands in the city jet cake as well or emmensely stupid,or dont know. Well if they dont know its up to us through IALPA and the Air France pilots union to make sure they know.And if nobody cares by then it really is time to get out!!!!!!Support IALPA and the meetings that are about to start.

[burgerbun]

Echo 97, I haven't parked there in ages, do you work for Regional ? :=

[General Dogsbody]

Well done Echo 97 I think you covered everything, the level of apathy is incredible in the company, I heard that only two pilots turned up to a recent "Pilots Information Meeting" in Dublin.
Management are in for a big shock, Last Man out turn out the Lights...:D

[b17heavy]

Sounds like the worst of several worlds, the military and sales people ( sorry – aviation consultants ). I cant think of a less desirable situation. The military are a strange animal, not unlike the sales creature just less predictable… basically adopt an upper class delboy attitude and forget all safety if it get in the way of getting the job done and your sorted :ok:

[suasdaguna]

Is it true that if you were a Capt in the Aer Corp you dont need to do command checks on a civilian airliner and are automatically put in the CityJet left seat as a god given right?

[5 RINGS]

Mass exodus at CityJet...

Well I find it hard to believe, my application has been turned down for the third time, have not even had a chance to demonstrate anything...

BTW my background is TP F/O 1200ish with an air taxi company...

any comment from the inside?

[banana head]

Suasdaguna Capt in the Aer Corp

No idea, although service in the Irish AIR CORPS usually helps :ugh:

[puddlehopper]

I've just spent the last hour reading all the messages of that thread and I feel like my arms are falling off.
I didn't realize the pilots' situation was that bad in CityJet and I thank you all for your inputs that will sure open our eyes wider.

Well I don't know if AF knows as much as I seem to have learned tonight, but rest assured that we will make them react!
Things are going to have to change.
I dont know if AF know what is going on ,or care but if some of the scuttlebut is correct, then they should.
Some creative accounting,with expenses accounts,starting at the top,and working its way down the line ,i guess in the over all view of things its small money,but from our end it feels alot more when our pay is LOW,very hard to get money back for using our own phones for the company{AF} ,over night expenses have not gone up in 8 years,sector pay is low, No holiday pay.And treated like crap bye 21 year old crewer- backed bye managment.All the hard work was done in this Co a long time before this management team came to power[ dictatorship ] AF should have a better team in control , bye there actions it rubs off on AF and makes AF look as bad as them,the parent Co treat there people alot better i know that.

[puddlehopper]

3 more Captains going shortly. Now with Aer Lingus hireing on top of the ryan air f/o's one wonders will there be anybody left!!


Everybody in Dub and alot in Paris are on the way out,if Easy open in Paris Cdg base it will close ****ty jet, and not a second too soon, the most backward bunch of Lazy Greedy Slime Money grabbing bunch of
bast:mad: ds, and to think these people had some to do with our countrys security,God help us,these people are of such low character they would prob sell our country out first,could not see them doing the right thing,
Now they are selling out city jet for there own gain.:yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[mickmccarthy]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/b/W/bush_fighterpilot_doll.jpg (http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushenola.htm)

[AICUS]

Echo 97 an excellent post.

I think you covered almost everything, but what about the 20 year old Dunnes shelf stackers who give you loads of attitude because you point out that the duty is in fact illegal in relation to a book called Part A, or am i asking too much that these people actually open the book and learn what a duty period is and how it is calculated...Oh i'm sorry of course there's no shared responsibility, it's up to the crew to make sure that they are within hours..........
And as for the Smiling Assassin....there are so many things 'Being looked into' i don't know where to start.
I'd love to know the amount of sickleave in the last 12 months, i'd say Cityjet is catching up with the Aer Corps!! (Wonder Why?)
Time for a change me thinks

[captplaystation]

As they say in your parts they sound like a bunch of gob-sh@tes. Hope after the 31st Jan the other gob-sh@tes with the blue / yellow colours might be worth you considering.At the moment CityJet sounds as bad, as MOL dreams of making Ryanair.

[splitbar]

Wow....I had no idea it was so bad over there. Alan D..y emailed me again a few weeks ago asking if I was still interested in a Captain position. From what I have heard from Cityjet pilots combined with all of the lies I have been told by Alan D..y & Mr. Reg..n, I think I'm done pursuing a job with this airline.

[newton69]

Thats it in a nutshell Echo 97 :D

But you forgot the massive bonus that air France gave cityjet, Britair and Regional, Only we all heard about it from the Britair pilots and only after a bit of an uproar did the BIG 3 Grudgingly give us all a crumb.


As for the training when I joined it was first lets fly the Aircraft then worry about the sops now its ... " well that was a :mad: landing but you calls were excellent well done"

Line cks where saying "Checked and set" instead of "set and checked" IS a failing offense!

We have pilots refusing to comply with ATC speed request not for Airframe limitations but in case the FDR gets pulled and its discovered that xxxxx flew at 280 kts / M .66 to Bhx they rather fly at .65 and get Vectored for an extra 25 nm!!!!!! :ugh:


a " friend " of mine in recruting in a certin Low cost carrier told me there has being at least 25 cityjet CVs sent in, July - Dec 2006.


And yes one of them is mine!!

[splitbar]

Ouch! No thanks. How are the Americans from Mesaba doing? Do they like flying for Cityjet? I have a few friends that went but I have lost touch with them all.

[acebaxter]

Friends from Mesaba and location Dubai. That you Reggie?

[newton69]

18th January 2007
>
>
>
>Dear CityJet Pilot,
>
>
>
>As a follow on from my letter in November (copy attached in this
>e-mail) I wish to advise you of forthcoming meetings for all Cityjet
>pilots. The purpose of these meetings will be to inform you (members
>and non-members alike) as to the options available to resolve your
>professional and industrial grievances. I have also included in this
>e-mail a copy of the registered letter sent to Mr Geoffrey White CEO
>Cityjet, to-date I have not received a reply.
>
>
>
>The objective of pursuing a common document which clearly outlines
>the
>terms and conditions of employment of all Cityjet pilots can be a
>daunting process particularly in a democratic organisation such as
>IALPA. However, such a process must be completed prior to us making
>proposals to Cityjet or an independent party. To commence this
>process
>and provide a focus for an informed debate I include a draft
>proposal
>document of terms and conditions for Cityjet pilots. This document
>will be referred to as the Cityjet Pilot Agreement (CPA). It is
>envisaged that this draft document will be debated and consequently
>amended at the meetings.
>
>
>
>It is also intended that a confidential election of officers from
>amongst the Cityjet pilot body will take place at the forthcoming
>meetings. These elected officers will advise and direct IALPA on
>policy in representing the interests of Cityjet pilots. Further
>details of this confidential election process will be articulated at
>the meetings. In summary, a ballot paper containing all the names of
>Cityjet pilots will be published. All Cityjet pilots will then be
>invited to vote 1-5 in order of their choice. The result of the
>ballot
>will be retained as confidential to IALPA officers and legal
>advisors
>until such time as the successful candidates choose to reveal their
>identities.
>
>
>
>Once again let me emphasise that all Cityjet pilots, both members
>and
>non-members, are welcome to the meetings.
>
>
>
>Yours sincerely,
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________
>
>Captain Evan Cullen
>
>President
>
>Irish Airline Pilots' Association



VIVA LA RELEVOLUTION !!!!!!!!!:E :E :E

PROBLEM IS WHO WILL HAVE THE BALLS TO TURN UP:sad:

[the grim repa]

Congratulations on your first step toward self respect,from your colleagues in ryanair.As we have learned here,the pilots may not turn up to the initial meeting,but sure as night follows day they will come running when they feel the pinch later.well done to all those brave enough to stand up for themselves.you will succeed!

[ImBatman]

Sure all they need is 51% to sign the CAP form and theyl go ahead, doesnt really matter how many goes to the meeting does it? Will there be more paris sigs or dub sigs?! Could be promising!

[Slick 69]

When and Where are the meetings in CDG? :confused:

[snaga]

Slick 69 it might be better to ask one of your colleagues than to ask that it is broadcast to all and sundry here. Image if you were a management representative intent on ..... whatever (you're not, are you?). If you are a CityJet pilot and you are really stuck you could always try telephoning IALPA!

[Slick 69]

Got a text from IALPA

[PENNINE BOY]

Good Luck to you all!!!!!!

I used to work for these bullying bastards!!!

I got put out on gardening leave for sticking up for the rights of my crew, I am glad you are now making a stand against Rea--n and co.

The guys n girls at City Jet are the finest people I have ever worked with and I miss my time with them! So stand up and be counted!!!

Your management are making fuc---g fortunes in bonuses and other areas ie ab initio training and sim hire!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope you succeed !!!!!!

Good Luck to you all............................... Muppets Mate :D

[v1r8]

I dont have anything against US citizen coming to Europe, as long they spend their money here and go home after VISITING europe( for 2-3 weeks). outside of this, you are the unwelcome and you are "technically" illegal in Europe if you come to work here.

when I see the numbers of emails from EU friends contacting me, cuz they have no job and can not get experience, I think this is disgusting to know what the Irish government is doing to them after spending a fortune in their JAR license.

to all US citizen:"GO HOME !"

How about you shut up you freaking moron!

Any idea how much EU citizens fly in the US/Asia/middle east !?

you dumbass.

V1 (EU citizen)

[Thumperdown]

V1
Don't hold back!
Say what you mean!! :)

[puddlehopper]

:ok: Got a text from IALPA
It has come down to this,if you dont show up for the meeting please please will you contact IALPA and vote when the time comes,its not to have a go at Cityjet its to try and make your lives a little better.God knows we have been abused bye the Co so far.If we dont take this chance,we have no one to blame.Input from all No ONE PERSONS agenda.Dont forget Tony R****n is operating without any counter balance, absolute power currupts absolutely

[The Lone Ranger]

CityJet management have been blocking your private emails from Ialpa.Despite this 11 times more pilots turned up for the ialpa meetings in CDG than turned up for one of their "communication meetings.
Well done lads!!!!!!!!
Also ialpa recieved many emails and telephone calls of support from City Jet pilots who couldn't make it.
Hopefully the Dublin pilots will turn up in force for Ialpa meeting on 30th Jan in ALSAA at 11.00am and 15.00pm.
Now the bullying from CityJet management will start in earnest.
When anybody who attended the ialpa meeting come under bullying from CityJet management make it known to Ialpa and air it on PPRUNE.
If we all stick together we will win this one!

[Marriot mystery men]

:= I may be mistaken but what the hell are you doing posting the time and dated of the meetings......the managment have access and you would be sure that they will have the smilling assasin as he has come to be known having lunch in alsaa. ( as he did in paris..to take names of the guys going in):ugh:

It is time ladies and gents to be intellegent and smart about this whole agenda.
I agree with puddle hopper we should give support...it wont cost you anything, and hay maybe we might get somewhere. The only people who i have heard say a bad word against this, are the guys with their heads so far up the managers ass....hoping to get into the inner circle.

Good luck to all :ok:

[FLEXPWR]

Well well,
Just reading along... had no clue some were called "smiling assassin(s)". More than one? It seems hard to figure out who one can really trust...:confused:

[onetrickpony]

my my...its gone very quiet round this thread.................

[Boy]

From what I hear the IALPA types have been having some "unofficial" and well as some "official" meetings. Some neat counter-intelligence work going on!

[newton69]

So how did the meeting go ???:E

[Carmoisine]

What you guys need to do urgently is set up your own forum like we have at REPA and take this discussion out of the Public eye. A Private forum for your elected representatives is also important as you do get low life pond scum who get leaned on by management for their passwords to the public side, right LEO....

You are well on your way guys, IALPA are the business if you use them properly:

From www.ireland.com

Pilots' union seeks meeting with CityJet on pay and pensions

Ciarán Hancock

A number of pilots at CityJet, a Dublin-based subsidiary of Air France, have met the Irish Airline Pilots Association (IALPA) and are expected to seek a meeting with the airline's management to discuss a number of grievances.

It is understood about 70 of CityJet's 170 pilots have met the IALPA recently. Two meetings were held yesterday at a sports complex near Dublin airport.

A number of the pilots are thought to be unhappy with pay levels, pension provisions and aspects of their rostering. As CityJet is a regional airline, feeding passengers into Air France's Paris hub from Dublin and the UK, its pay levels tend to lag those of larger carriers, including Aer Lingus and Ryanair.

IALPA wrote to CityJet's management before Christmas to seek a meeting but received no response. The airline does not recognise trade unions.

It is understood the pilots' union will write to the airline in early February to again seek a meeting with management.

The pilots are also thought to be considering making a complaint over their pay to the Labour Court, a move used against Ryanair, which also does not recognise unions. The Supreme Court is due to give its verdict on the right of the Labour Court to rule on this matter on Thursday. An adverse judgment could cost Ryanair €20 million.

A spokesman for CityJet, which carries 1.5 million passengers annually and has revenues of €254 million, said the airline has a "positive and effective internal communications process" and there was no need for a third-party negotiator.

"CityJet staff enjoy the best global staff travel facilities in association with Air France and pilots, uniquely for the airline industry, enjoy the support of loss of licence and income continuance benefits, which are arranged and funded by the company."

CityJet last year announced plans to spend $221 million on 23 AVRO RJ aircraft to replace its ageing fleet. It is also expected to announce the expansion of services from London.

[puddlehopper]

The meetings in Dublin had the pleasure of jack the KNIFE,if thats not a sign that they are worried i dont know what is,and threatening email from HR dept about giving out phone numbers.They are trying to close down any form of communications ,because they are afraid,CITYJET are opening a base in London ,Jeff is about to anounce larg scale expansion,with city looking for another 5/8 Rj 100son top fo all the rest.So if we can push on and get this thing up and running ,they are it costing them alot of money,THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO LOOSE ANY PILOTS :) NOW is the time.If we do not do it now we will never do it ,and therefore deserve everything we get there after.We HAVE TO VOTE VOTE VOTE,please contact IALPA and give your input ,yours forever hopeful.:ok:

[Captain Chaos]

The reason why this posting is gone very quite is because yet again IALPA has failed.Praticaly no one turned up for your Dublin meetings.
Dont know why you would want to work for such a crumby outfit when you are all welcome in Ryan Air!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Lone Ranger]

Its not over till the fat lady sings.I urge all city jet pilots to return their ballot papers signed.You can get them through ialpa or u know who.The fact that we have a bullying management similar to Ryan Air seems to give Mr Chaos something to rejoice about!

[delwy]

Our Captain Chaos is so obviously a Ryanair employee (who is not a pilot) that it is embarrassing. Captain Chaos the "offensive to everybody in sight" arrogance you demonstrate is by now associated with Ryanair by most people with even a vague familiarity with aviation. Since you probably lack the capacity to feel embarrassment you are unlikely to understand what disgust your patronising attitude generates far and wide. And I don't need a lecture about profitability from you; any management that treated its employees as you do would make a lot of money.

[Toolman101]

having read the last 6 pages of this thread it obivious that this is not just a problem at Cityjet. What is it with Bae146 companies? They all seem to treat their employees with contempt. National Jet Systems is another example of this

[FRying]

Reading through this thread, I wonder : why in the world take on such self-imposed pain remaining with this crap airline ???? I mean, there is so many nice jobs out there, great pays, fab conditions, extraordinay aircraft, beautiful networks...

WHY STAY ????

[puddlehopper]

All Bae 146 operators see them selvs as the bottom of the aviation world ,so that gives them the excuse to treat there staff badly,because they will not stay ,or so they think .but the real reason is BAD management ,if you express your views the answer is { if you are not happy leave } .All the while management pilots are paid OFF for there 30 peaces of silver.Not alot for your sole.so as line pilots all we are left with is pprune now that is sad.As we are on about Silver ,i hear citty is about to make an announcement about pay.increease in the region of 10/15 % just keep in mind they have not been paying the crews properly for years,but its better then nothing.If its there intention to try and stop the hemorrhage of PILOTS to places like EASY JET then they are a long way short of the mark.Line pilots are on a basic of 100000 euro plus thats where they start,Good luck citty

[The Lone Ranger]

Chaos is actually right in saying that the turn out in Dublin was low.But we all know why this is.Bullying management.
But it will not be ialpa's failure if this doesn't work out.It will be City Jet pilots who are to blame.
Let prove Chaos wrong,yet again.
You have to return those ballot papers signed.The names of the people who voted will only be known to IALPA.
Update shortly on the next tide of pilots leaveing.The flood is about to turn into a torrent!

[FRying]

Just a thought : management aware of people who signed...So what ??? Well fire me and I'll sue your ass and try to make money out of it while I'd be able to join a descent airline with a descent pay.

City Jet is a tiny little operator only helped out of the doom thanks to Air France. There is life outside.

That's my point of view.

[puddlehopper]

:D I agree with the LOAN RANGER ,if this gose south its the pilots fault.Just VOTE the CO will never know.When IALPA are in ,then the Co will have to deal with them,the bullying will have to stop .PAY agreements will have to be just that : AGREEMENTS : not this next pay PAPER issued bye the Co .It is not a pay deal we had nothing to do with it from our side.And all the other problems within ****ty jet. VOTE VOTE VOTE contact IALPA you will not regret it.

[kelb]

need some info.what I have read about this company does not sound good....anyway I think it is sigmar aviation who tries to get drivers into cityjet,correct me if I am wrong,now they have approached me to offer a contract for RJ.I do not want to come over there and stab your back if you are under talks of improvement with your management.is the situation on cityjet just to hire type rated pilots to fill the gap or keep the pilots in poor conditions and with low salary???
I have seen these kinds of acts and I am not gonna be part of it:mad:
keep me updated:ok:

[puddlehopper]

KELB; Good man ,but you are too HONEST for your own good,come to cityjet but be aware what you are coming in to .This Co could do with a few good men,and men covers good women as well .P S Ialpa voting papers will be on line very soon ,just download and fill in ,send back to IALPA ,:D

[splitbar]

A few senior Mesaba Captains will be starting Captain training at CityJet. Are there no senior First Officers who want the Captain slots? Why are they hiring direct entry Captains from the USA and is there any resentment towards them?

[The Lone Ranger]

10 pilots leaving imminently!
4 captains leaving for Emirates.
1 f/o for Aer Lingus.
3 captains for Easy Jet
Smeegal note that the above jobs require a sim check.Just to save you the bother of applying.
1 captain and 1 f/o for exec.
Apparently our pay raise is been reviewed because Tony thinks that nobody else is leaving.
2 of the pilots have been bullied out.
Shame on you City Jet pilots who haven't voted yet and have stood by and watched your fellow pilots treated this way.
Vote!Vote!Vote!

[splitbar]

Looks like CityJet will soon lose about 10 more pilots as most of the American pilots will take their April, 2nd recall to Mesaba.

[puddlehopper]

A ****ty where is it all going wrong,we are following our training,we treat people like crap,we bully everybody,and we lie to everybody,so we treat everyone the same.This worked in the air core so why is it going so badly wrong? I KNOW its those dam civillians,that was the worst idea to let any one of them in to our AERLINE.So in the future only ex military, they are the only people you can thrust anyway. But seriously people if you dont VOTE VOTE VOTE now you will never get a better time,they are short of people ,push it HOME.Bye the way ****ty are offering Aer arron capts training capt positions to get them to join,just for info.And finially if Aer France are not concerned about what is happening in ****ty then there is no hope for anyone of us.With love from the hopper :O

[The Lone Ranger]

Next time your called out on sby,or have your cushy week in Dublin ruined,it may not be for the usual reasons,which include **** up all round,crew sickness,Aer Lingus,Easy interviews etc. Apparently tr has now taken to putting pilots who have resigned out for early gardening leave out of pure spite with total disregard for you or the company if the flights cannot be covered. Your life is now being screwed over by tr's pure incompetence and vindictiveness!
7 pilots now heading off to FlyBee. So many for Aer Lingus weve lost count.
Just about 50% for the union. So vote!VoteVote

[Captain Chaos]

This thread went very quiet.Did everybody leave then????

[banana head]

Last one out probably forgot to turn the lights off :E

[nuageblanc]

i would like to know the salary for a f/O.
I have 350 hrs TT :O

Guillaume.