Latest FRI rumour [Archive]

formertonkaplum

5th Dec 2006, 08:32

Its not just the Flying steed's who need an incentive to stay, without the ginger's there will be nothing to punch holes with.

Certain trades are under-manned now in critical ranks and applications for termination are not drying up.

Lest we forget the engineer who make'th machine get airborne !!!

(spelling was optional on this entry....)

Ken Scott

5th Dec 2006, 09:09

A nice thought, Mrs Scott is already compiling her shopping list, but a targeted FRI will p*** off those that don't get it more than it will persuade people to stay. Besides, people's grieveances go way beyond money, they are to do with fighting wars with shoddy kit, constantly rotating through the desert, spineless leadership etc, the list is pretty endless. £59000 net for presumeably 5 years ROS is not a whole lot, unless you were planning on staying in anyway.

My intelligence (an oxymoron, surely?) says that it's still targeted at Sqn Ldrs at 38 anyway. God knows, we need a whole load more of those! I'd rather they gave it to the salt of the earth engineers any day, perhaps even bought some spares as well, then I could go flying.

Widger

5th Dec 2006, 09:33

brit bus driver

5th Dec 2006, 12:28

I echo Ken's comments,
I have missed out on three FRIs two for the fish 'eads and one because I am not a Harrier Pilot. I am still here 20 years later and all the FRI recipients have pi$$ed off to Virgin etc!

Appears that the targeted FRI worked then; no need to target you as you were obviously going to stay anyway!

London Mil

5th Dec 2006, 14:24

£100K and you will be bonded until the age of 87. :\

detgnome

5th Dec 2006, 18:02

So in answer to the original question....it would appear there isn't anything new or concrete. Just a guess, but the annual pay review is usually finished sometime in Feb, so any announcements may be made on the back of that.

Rigchick

5th Dec 2006, 19:08

And can we take a guess at the rise? I'm betting on just about the rate of inflation. Sounds ok doesn't it.
That is until they put the quarters up by 5-14% ike last year. And that's not including the rises to Council Tax. Will someone please explain to me why we are paying £90 per month to have our bins emptied every fortnight and have the post delivered (sometimes). Especially when people living in the local area are paying at least £200 per year less for everything the Council provides, ie. sewage, roads, lighting, emergency services, schools and so on.:ugh:

Rant over!:mad:

Biggus

5th Dec 2006, 20:32

Pay rise for 07 - 'about the rate of inflation' - I DOUBT IT!

RPI (yes RPI, not that other one Gordon Brown prefers because it is over 1% lower) is running at about 3.7% at the moment. What is the betting our pay rise is 3% or less (nurses offered 1.36% I think?) as part of the governments target to keep inflation/wage bill down - despite all the photocalls for the senior politicos in Afghanistan telling the boys what a "valued and important" job they are doing (and MPs asking for a 66% rise!!)!

Sorry - rant over!

Rigchick

6th Dec 2006, 16:07

Sorry Biggus, I reserve the right to be eternally hopeful :hmm:

Just like hoping that the powers that be will one day wake up and realise that the RAF has disappeared and they've done nothing to stop it from happening! Or rather that they've helped it happen! :=

Arthur's Wizard

6th Dec 2006, 17:30

Min Decent Ht

7th Dec 2006, 18:18

Apparently the new and wonderful FRI is targetted at Sqn Ldrs at their 38 point. Hopefully it will also encourage others to stay. I know there are several people that could have taken the old FRI recently but didn't, or are entitled to it over the next few months (the new deal starts on Apr 1st) but realise that the change to civvie is too lucrative; £29000 for 5 years is not worth staying.
Unless this new deal can be more flexible, say at least 5years return of service from 1 Apr 07, the RAF will lose everyone that has a 38 point during the next 5 months!

Ken Scott

7th Dec 2006, 18:56

I believe the RAF hierarchy don't really appreciate how bad things are getting, or if they do they don't care. Just about everyone is either leaving, or planning to leave, even or especially, the young guys. The accountants might not see the problem in all the experienced people leaving as they earn the highest salaries, & they can still get new people in who earn a deal less - but they know nothing & take years to bring up to the standard of those they replace.

And yet they target Sqn Ldrs for the FRI, one of the less productive ranks in my opinion.

Oggin Aviator

7th Dec 2006, 19:35

(the new deal starts on Apr 1st)
MDH can you expand ie how gen is this and how much pre tax - if 29K post tax then it is less than the current scheme (just).
Oggin

brit bus driver

7th Dec 2006, 22:38

Not if you take National Insurance into account. I had heard that a continuance of the current scheme may be in the offing. And let's face it, £29k for an additional 6 years service (anyone going to take the PVR pay cut to get out at 43 with an option at 44?) just doesn't cut it.

Oh, and I suspect it's targeting sqn ldrs as, I assume, flt lts are being assimilated onto PAS?

Min Decent Ht

8th Dec 2006, 08:21

Oggin, the old scheme is £50 000, taxed and NI = £29 600 net.
Rumours on the new, £100 000 gross, £59 000 net.
As BBD pointed out, thats not much for 6 extra years; infact, about the same as you would have got in pension if you'd left!
IMHO the only people who took the old FRI2 would have stayed beyond 38 anyway. If the new scheme is 6 figures it will be an incentive to stay.

As for PA, the board sits once per year. Last Sep, of the 27 Sqn Ldrs that applied, only were 4 accepted. I'm not sure of the Flt Lt numbers. So if you're planning to tell your poster "give me PA and I'll stay in", don't expect any promises!

Hello, Mr Branson?....

Confucius

8th Dec 2006, 09:16

There was no NI deduction for FRI1, I got £13.2K 4 years ago (22K - 40% tax as I had 4 years to my 16 yr point).
Whether that's the case now...:confused:

Oggin Aviator

8th Dec 2006, 12:37

MDH,

HP with the old scheme - I took FRI1 in 03 and am due FRI2 in Feb 08. Just curious (as anyone would be) if FRI2 will stay on or be scrapped or be replaced by another. I am actually thinking of leaving (lots of opportunities in Oz at the moment) however a 6 figure sum might do the trick for a few years. So any gen gratefully received.

Oggin

BootFlap

8th Dec 2006, 13:09

Come on PMA, use your heads and realise that all this rumour is not helping. Get on DefenceNet and tell us what is happening, even if it is that nothing will be formally announced until the next AFPRB Report.

As for me, pound to a pinch of the proverbial, I will miss out again! I'm lucky like that you see, it would only confuse me into starting to think that maybe I'll stay in!

formertonkaplum

8th Dec 2006, 13:11

MDH,

I am actually thinking of leaving (lots of opportunities in Oz at the moment) however a 6 figure sum might do the trick for a few years.

Oggin

A six figure sum? How will you cope on that? AR*EWI*E

How about share the wealth......its about time a certain kin of folk realised that without the engineer on the ground, the pretentious don't get elevated!!

Its not just the chaps who sit in row one of the people / cargo / weapons taxi's. Others area's of the service are haemorrhaging too.

Any first aider will tell you, you have to stop all the bleeding or the casualty becomes fatal.

FFP

8th Dec 2006, 13:49

This whole FRI isssue makes me laugh. There are those that want the money to stay, but wouldn't leave anyway if they didn't get it !! Those to whom money is important tend to get the quals needed (Eng licenses or ATPL's) and leave. The rest whinge hoping for the money so that they get a little kick back for staying around anyway !! (This applies to all trades IMO)

Now, Tonkaplum, me old....

Think your getting a tad confused there chap regarding FRI's and misdirecting your anger at Oggin ...........

It's PMA that decides who gets them, the pilots only choose whether to take them or not.

Or maybe you are talking about a far deeper, personal level of sharing the wealth in which the pilot goes onto the line and hands out all the rentention money to keep the lineys from PVRing ?

Just like I'm sure the lineys would do in the crew room ?

You boys have quals that put you on a nice little earner outside. If it's money you want, vote with your feet.

formertonkaplum

8th Dec 2006, 14:14

Confused? Not at all, although point noted about PMA deciding.

Besides, he got my back up with the comment about wanting 6 figure sums... Who is worth that? Really....Who ?

I fully realise that anyone can vote with their feet but some of us actually like what we do and who we work for, just don't feel we are remunerated equivocally.

We are asked to do more, be more Joint; (which is another term for doing what the Army should be doing mainly. When did you last see an Infantry soldier working on Tornado?)

And what do we get for doing more, quicker with less? We get to see Aircrew whinge that they want 100k BONUS to stay (some of whom would be staying anyway but will of course claim). GREAT!!

Oh yeah... they have given us something........... Higher pass standards for the Fitness Test as of Apr 07.

Cheers....Merry Xmas

FFP

8th Dec 2006, 14:36

I get where your coming from.

But in a purely financial sense, the 100k will become 60k which, depending on the commitment, would not match the bigger salary he'd get with a major airline, certainly when you take into account the seniority leaving now would give and time to command.

That's what he's saying. It all too easy to get wound up listening to others talk about their worth (never get involved with stockbrokers talking about christmas bonuses, that'll really wind you up !!!)

Oggin Aviator

8th Dec 2006, 14:37

You really are quite rude.
Its not just the chaps who sit in row one of the people / cargo / weapons taxi's. Others area's of the service are haemorrhaging too.
If they are haemorrhaging so much then surely they would be offered incentives to stay - it has happened to other trades in the RN (Submariners, Marine engineers etc), so ask yourself why not in the RAF? Don't vent your spleen at me - if I am thinking of leaving, a bit of dosh to stay in is money well spent to them - it would save them millions in retraining someone else.

Simple fact is it costs a shed load to train aircrew, unlike costing a shed load to train other branches.

Oggin

formertonkaplum

8th Dec 2006, 14:50

But the money for those branches is equally important.....

Without branches, there is no tree.

Trenchard 1918
Without armament there is no Air Force,
Without an Air Force, we perish.

Food for thought.

helidriver

8th Dec 2006, 15:27

I didn't think this £100k FRI was aimed at the RAF or the RN fraternity. I am informed it is in the scoping stages for Army AH pilots who are coming to the end of their time bar, and because of further Op commitments are going to be 3 on, 3 off for a couple of years. I don't wish to make you feel as if you are worth any less but lets be honest, its basic supply and demand stuff! By the way I am not an AH driver and the £100k (£60 after tax) still might not be enough for another 5 years return of service. Maybe an AH driver might like to comment.:confused:

NoseGunner

8th Dec 2006, 17:30

Supply and demand it is.

formertonka, the fact of the matter is that this is all accountant driven. Aircrew dont get retention incentives because they think they are gods gift, but because so many are leaving and it costs millions (tens of millions for the more experienced/qualified) to replace. Not to mention at least 5-10 years to train. You are completely correct that most that take it would stay anyway but at 60k a go, the treasury can easily afford to pay 20 if it keeps one. Unfortunately for the treasury all aircrew know that at the moment they can get a job that will, in the long term, be far more financially lucrative than 60k over 5 years and offer far more quality of life.

Likewise you are absolutely correct that if the RAF (or any other company) is short in other areas then retention initiatives should be applied there, but I think that the current perception at PMA is that in most areas we are doing redundancies, not retention. Of course after the redundancies / PVRs have settled down, we may find that PMA have misjudged things (is that possible?) I am a fan of targetted payments - I dont believe that because we are short of, say, multi pilots then all RAF aircrew should get the cash. So if its AAC AH guys who get a big payment and RAF FJ guys get nothing, then fine so be it.

Anyway, keep smiling, even when the s**t is up to your nose! :(

LFFC

9th Dec 2006, 07:25

Time to say: 'Thank you, Mr Atkins' (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/12/09/do0901.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2006/12/09/ixopinion.html)

Forget FRIs - it's too late for such cheapskate and divisive options. It's time for a real payrise - I think only that will save the Armed Forces now!

countdeblades

9th Dec 2006, 20:10

We are asked to do more, be more Joint; (which is another term for doing what the Army should be doing mainly. When did you last see an Infantry soldier working on Tornado?)

Tonka

You are so right but then I havn't seen any Tornado techs driving AH but plenty of Infantry soldiers are all over it...:=

p.s If you hadn't done so well at school you wouldn't be fixin 'em and get yourself down the gym as April isn't far away!!!!:eek:

ethereal entity

10th Dec 2006, 17:26

Oggin,

The rumours of 6 figure FRI's is doing the rounds in the RAF at the moment, but they are just that (at the moment) - rumours. Smart money is on the sum going to CS Sqn Ldrs for a return of service post IPP (5 yrs?). Interestingly, I have yet to speak to a single CS Sqn Ldr (I've asked quite a few) who would change a decision to leave if they got 100K (taxed or otherwise) - it's not enough, to compensate for 5 yrs of the children growing up whilst Dad's away (or mum!)/ 5 yrs less seniority at an airline/not to mention jobhunting at 44 - not easy. In addition, a continuation of the FRI2 is utterly pointless - 50K taxed is 30, over 5 yrs =6K per year. Hmm...if a Flt Lt left at his 38/16, his pension would be almost double that, so the RAF are saving money on anyone who accepts the FRI - only giving you half what they would have to if you left. Clever.

What would retain a Flt Lt at IPP?

Less time away, Serviceable (NEW!!!) aircraft, GET RID OF JPA, Stop using Civvy Bull*hit terminology, Get rid of the current bunch of spineless cowards we call senior officers, and pay us what we are worth (7 tours, 6000hrs - about 85K per annum, and NO, I'm not kidding.

For what it's worth.

Oggin Aviator

10th Dec 2006, 17:44

Thanks for the info e e.

If they dont retain CS Stream S/L's they will be in a lot of trouble a few years down the line? Who will be CAS - non winged officer? Think not. However your argument that the figures quoted are not enough to retain someone at realistically the last chance of getting a decent job (and future) in the airlines make sense. I will await any announcement with interest.

Oggin

StopStart

10th Dec 2006, 18:06

Oh whoops....

I just asked for a bit more fun flying to get me to sign on. Should've held out for the cash. Ho hum, guess I'm stuck with it then.

Silly me.

:p

Still, there's nothing to spend it on in Kandahar anyway so why bother :)

PS. it'll be 100k pre-tax, CS Sqn Ldrs, 5 year bond.

L J R

10th Dec 2006, 18:10

Stop Start, If your intel is accurate, then do you have the name of the guy who will accept it?

StopStart

10th Dec 2006, 18:16

Thats the fun of it all: I can't, but neither can they :)

If no one accepts it then I'm going to ask if they can divvy it up between those of us signing up to PA. Think there's about 4 of us so I should get at least a couple of Aston Martins out of it.

Sweet :p

BootFlap

11th Dec 2006, 11:58

I'll accept it, but they may need to change the eligibility criteria a little in order to let me accept it! But honestly I don't mind, proud to serve............

P-T-Gamekeeper

11th Dec 2006, 14:08

I wouldn't have stayed in for 60 K.

Having left earlier this year, for a 14 K a year pay rise, that makes break even pretty quick.

It ain't all about the money.

p.s when is the GE's bash?

StopStart

11th Dec 2006, 22:28

Sorry but they asked that traitorous splitters like your good self not be invited. Rules is rules I'm afraid.

Unless you bring lots of top drawer airline blart. Actually, it's the GEs bash. Bring their mums instead.

;)

wobble2plank

12th Dec 2006, 10:52

Oggin, are you sure they'll take you in Oz, won't you scare the locals :E Say hi to the baggers for me ;)

To all........ leave. There are jobs abound at the moment, it is more dull but the pay starts where the mil stops and keeps going up. I get served coffee and tea, given lunch and have a solid, stable roster. I have also stayed in more nice 5 star hotels in the past 12 months then I ever saw from the outside in the mob!!!!

I thought about Queen and country and after 18 years front line service in the FAA they took my flying pay off me for the last four months and sent me a personally signed letter from some desk knob thanking me for my 18 years in the marines :mad: go figure.

The accountants and politicians don't care about you, you're all numbers to them and they don't really care about who or what you are but where in the c$%p world they can send you all and what they can get out of you.

A classic one was the governments 'economy' drive where a tefal headed labour politician claimed sucess of 'cost saving' by achieving the same tasking with less submarines. Didn't get drawn on whether the crews were overstretched, just took the credit for needing one less sub to do the same tasking????

FRI's are and will always be a short term measure enabling them to keep their claws in the experienced pool of manpower and enabling them to post/transfer you anywhere stating 'well... you took the FRI'.

Have fun, the grass really is greener over the fence. Those who moan about civvie flying are generally the ones who have never had to put up with the c**p the militray powers that be put out.

Overtorque

12th Dec 2006, 12:55

It was nice of the RAF to offer me promotion this year, but even with the carrot of £100 grand, it's not enough to make me want to stay in. Spent the last 18 months having weekends and evenings free, and rather like it.

Had a great time in, but looking forward to leaving.

Still, for those that were intending to stay in anyway, it will be a nice bonus, even though it won't tempt a soul who was planning on going!

ethereal entity

12th Dec 2006, 21:38

Still, for those that were intending to stay in anyway, it will be a nice bonus, even though it won't tempt a soul who was planning on going!

Couldn't have said it better myself - If the MOD want people to change their minds about leaving at their 38/16, then 100K is not even close - A straw poll in the crewroom of 7 Flt Lt's, (oldest 37, youngest 28), brought in a lowest 'I'll stay in for that' figure of 250K Tax free, up to a max of '...there isn't enough money'.

Those who are holding out for an FRI before making a decision are wasting their time - it will be a nice 'stocking filler' for those who are already going to stay, but it won't be enough to make anyone believe in Santa again. Trust me.

The subject of the next AFPRB outcome and FRI's used to be a hot topic in the crewroom, but not anymore...all you hear now is '...don't care how much it is, I'm not staying'

Forget FRI's, and pay aircrew what they are worth, and I guarantee that some will stay (I'm talking big airline captain's pay - PA Spine is not even close). I would...probably.

MP's want a 60% payrise because they work hard and serve the nation. Well by that logic I reckon the Armed Forces have easily earned a 100% payrise...and MP's care to disagree? Thought not, you greedy, useless leeches.

Oh, if you think it's bad now, wait until Mr Brown is in the chair - he engineered a huge proportion of our current problems, and it will be worse when he gets his way all the time. Didn't we used to shoot traitors?

Will the last bloke to leave put the cat out and hand the Queen the Station Ensign - there's not going to be anything left to defend soon.