Cleared high speed......

[haughtney1]

Ahhh those wonderful ATC words...no speed restrictions etc etc

Just wondering if any of you drivers out there have your own rules of thumb you use in a high speed descent and approach.
I'm not talking about the standard speed/descent profile with a reduction to 250kts below 10000'.........I'm talking about high speed all the way down to the point where you slow down and configure to land:ok:
Me personally...I'll start slowing the 757 down from 300kts about 12-15 miles and 2000' above the LOC G/S intercept, seems to work most times:ok:

Anyone else have their own techniques?

[issi noho]

seems to work most times:ok:



What happens on the other occasions?

[Iceman49]

More importantly what do you do when you hit the birds at greater than 250kts. Turbulance is also a consideration.

[haughtney1]

:hmm:
More importantly what do you do when you hit the birds at greater than 250kts. Turbulance is also a consideration.

The aircraft I fly has a speed limitation below 8000'ft, 300kts doesnt exceed this limitation...as for turbulence..thats something to consider if the conditions dictate so.

What happens on the other occasions?

Use the speedbrakes....:{

[Capn Bloggs]

what do you do when you hit the birds at greater than 250kts
Cry a bit more. The birds are more-dead. :(

320KIAS at 4000ft and 15 to touchdown. Easy in a 717. :eek:

[Stuck_in_an_ATR]

ATR - 240KIAS to 9Nm from touchdown and on G/S... Now, beat that! :}

[jollypilot]

250kts to 4nm is entirely possible in a 146 although not comfortable.

[Contract Con]

We used to do 270kts to 5nm straight in, in the Brasilia:D

Good fun, and it looks all wrong from the cockpit. I don't think the pax appreciated too much though. Too much noise and an uncomfortable decel.

330kt to 10nm 2000' and join base leg works in the B73:}

Cheers,

Con:ok:

[Iceman49]

Good papers to review when considering hi speed. http://www.birdstrikecanada.com/Papers.htm

[Rainboe]

I 'discourage' any flap at more than 15 miles unless ATC required- there is no excuse for it. Even on a 747 I practised that. If you stay below the profile, you can keep high speed until slow-up and on the slot. As an experiment once, we were doing just under 290 kts level at 10 miles in a 737-200, slowed up, gear then flaps, and dropped neatly down onto final approach hitting 1000' with the right config. Now SESMA watches you it's not so easy!

[Capn Bloggs]

Now now you boat drivers, everybody knows you can stop on a dime with your rotating speedbrakes! :} We're talking about REAL aeroplanes here.

ATR: 240KIAS at 9nm on slope is no problem for a 717! :ok:

[haughtney1]

250kts to 4nm is entirely possible in a 146 although not comfortable

I didnt think a 146 could do 250kts?????? runnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnssssssss:8

[alexban]

Wow ,a lot of brave pilots here...do you think the speed restriction bellow FL100 is mainly for ATC reasons?...well,you're wrong...the main reason are birds.
You should do a search,for ex for the 767 AA bird hit,at FL120,over CDG,or for the poor cpt who died after receiving a direct hit on his windshield,at high speed.
How much time you'll get if flying so fast,bellow FL100?:ugh: ...10-20 sec? you'll risk a lot,maybe your life for so much?
I've had my share of birds,and I can tell you,at high speeds they are not something to mess about.
On the 767 that I've talked about,flying at around 300 kts,a bird managed to enter the cockpit dislocating part of the instrument panel,after entering through the radome.
So,think twice if you think you're flying with a tank...the aluminium sheet is so,so thin..:ok:

ContractCon: you are trying to tell that you're doing 330 kts ,untill 10 NM ,at 2000' in a 738,and then what? ..at this speed you'll barely manage 210 kts at 4NM (in level flight..mind you ,there is a ldg gear speed limit ,so..) A,ok ,330kts at 10NM,then a nice pass over the field,can be done,especially in the FS2004 :)

[beamer]

So good to see an utter disregard of passenger comfort as the boys experiment with high speed approaches - 'lets see if this works' - very professional !

[Centaurus]

The birds I tell you - watch for the bloody birds. One hit dead on the windscreen while doing an exhiliarating 300 knots plus at low level (below 10,000) and you will lose an eye at the very least and your whole head if its a BIG bird. It is simply not worth the thrill or the risk and the passengers won't go to your funeral - although their lawyers will. In any case you are saving very little time by keeping high speed below 10 when compared to 250 below 10. High speed below 10 is for thrill seekers and suckers.

[crew the screw]

High speed below 10 is for thrill seekers and suckers.

And the forgetful and the late :( Argh WTF ok ok... Thrill Seekers:E

Must admit though.. I'm not brave just stoopid but <300Kts from 12-15 2000' above??? the Glide... Come off it.. is that with the Anchors out all the way down?:sad:

[SoundBarrier]

Jeez guys, catchup. I do 110Kts in my 172 below 10,000. OK Truth, I get to 110Kts in a dive FROM 10,000! :) I must work on my straight and level! :)

[airamerica]

You guys have Capatins beside you?
Man I love a useless conversation-who can be more stupid below F100.
Maybe you guys know better than the manufacturer/test pilot or are you just winding one another up and neither of you actually flies anything bigger than a Joystic on MS Sim.
Just curoious thats all.
My vew point, short term gain long term loss with that kind of stupidity.Remember ATC are trying to slot as many as they can ie making their life easier.Just because its on offer why are you hell bent on exceeding your type's limitation for the sake of 2 mins?
What ever happened to airmanship?

[Fedezyl]

mm, the most i've done is 300kts to 10nm at 1500ft on the 732, usually dropping the landing gear at 270kts with speedbrakes and at 210kts selecting flap 40 and lowering the speedbrakes in level flight results in a rapid deceleration and flaps going down on schedule, not very comfortable with passengers and you do have a bird strike issue too by flying low and fast, but on a 35min flight, going high speed below FL100 can mean a 5 min difference or more if you flew at a high speed cruise too...:)

[slamer.]

"Monarch 123, expect no delay, for sequencing make speed 300 kts through 5000'........ errrr director Monarch 123, unable due possibility of a bird strike"

Yeah right..... we hear this EVERY day, dont we ??????...........:rolleyes:

Oh... almost forgot...:E

" Monarch 123, roger ..... enter the BNN hold, your now number 20 in approach sequence"

[ray cosmic]

Another reason why you might increase speed below 10 is to catch the profile after ATC didn't descend you on time..

You should do a search,for ex for the 767 AA bird hit,at FL120,

So actually it also unsafe to accelerate above 10?
Doesn't the Goose make it somewhere until level 300?

Alex, when do you accelerate/decelerate?

If I remember well, econ descent in a 737 is often around 280 kts. So if you have a choice, why wouldn't you fly it down to final intercept? It's also a bit of a waste to always reduce to 250 -oh no, 240 to make sure you stay under 250- in all conditions.
You don't have to fly like a cowboy while at the same time being efficient in time and energy management.

[alexban]

well, ray ,the risk of encountering birds decreases with higher altitude,even though big birds were seen at FL 270 . In the case of the 767 I was pointing the risk of hitting birds at high speeds,no matter what FL you're at.
We do accelerate/decelerate at FL100,no problem in doing that.And you do not remember well,the econ descent is dependent of cost index,and for a CI of 50,the econ will be 320 kts,a bit fast,one may say.
If I have a choice,and I usually have,I reduce at FL100 at 250kts. Why? Main reason birds,and also,in my area of operation,especially in summer,moderate to heavy turbulance bellow FL80 (hot,windy..) So,a lot more comfy flying at 250 kts. A bit of waste ,you say..a bit of waste of what?
As I see,you're pretty young.I can assure you,after getting one pigeon right between front windshields (loud bang,FO jumping out of chair,myself ducking under the dashbord,hopefully speed around 210 kts,only bloodstains..:} ) you'll change your enthusiam for high speeds close to the ground.
If you still think you're safe and fast ,check this photos :http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20010402-1&lang=en
:ok: ( I hope I'm allowed to put that link here,the pictures are very impressive and must be seen by any pilot,speedy or not)

[Contract Con]

Gday Alex,

Visual approach, 10nm from the field, approaching at 90degrees to RWY direction, level 2000', gear at 260kts, decel holding it level thru flap extension all the way to F30 and join left base for a 3nm final.

Doesn't work so well with much tailwind during the decel:uhoh:

Slamer and Ray make very valid points.

Cheers,

Con:ok:

P.S I am both a thrill seeker and sucker apparently

[xsbank]

When you visit us out west:
"Airspeed Limitations
602.32 (1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet ASL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots.
(2) No person shall operate an aircraft below 3,000 feet AGL within 10 nautical miles of a controlled airport at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots unless authorized to do so in an air traffic control clearance.
(3) Notwithstanding subsections (1) and (2), a person may operate an aircraft at an indicated airspeed greater than the airspeeds referred to in subsections (1) and (2) where the aircraft is being operated on departure or in accordance with a special flight operations certificate - special aviation event issued pursuant to section 603.02.
(4) Where the minimum safe speed for the flight configuration of an aircraft is greater than the speed referred to in subsection (1) or (2), the aircraft shall be operated at the minimum safe speed."

And this one:
"Reckless or Negligent Operation of Aircraft

602.01 No person shall operate an aircraft in such a reckless or negligent manner as to endanger or be likely to endanger the life or property of any person."

[ruddman]

As a pax, so glad u guys are thinking of us back here safety wise. Very reassuring.

[Tee Emm]

level 2000', gear at 260kts

And the manufacturer's recommended speed for landing gear extension (which takes into account structural life, gear door life, passenger comfort) is...?

Certainly not 260 knots of that I am sure. Gooday Cowboy...:=

[OBK!]

Many of you are saying that if you can do high speed, why not? It's more efficient. Well not if you've planned on 250/10000ft in the box surely? The box plans an idle decent, so if you've implemented slowing to 250kts at 10,000ft, it will do so with idle thrust then continue at idle at that speed until configuring. As soon as you erase that 250kts below 10,000ft out the box, you're low on the profile and at some point will need thrust to regain that profile whereas before you'd spend that time at idle.

I don't understand people who will willingly do 320kts below 10k...it sure isn't ECON speed with todays fuel prices, and I very much doubt it's in any company SOP though I do seem to here it an awful lot from the same operator...

[Contract Con]

TM,

A cowboy I may be, but get your facts straight before you have a go!

From Boeing FCOM Vol 2 Page 14.10.1

Landing Gear Limit (IAS)

Extend 270-.82M
Retract 235K
Extended 320K-.82M

Cheers,

Con:ok:

Edit: TM, on re reading your post I see you make point of saying " recommended speed". I havn't seen where Boeing state one for the gear, only Flap??

Gear out at 260kts is not a daily ocurrance and is below the Limit speed, so where is the problem?