ATC in the RAF [Archive]

Ploddalong

23rd Nov 2006, 22:08

Il Duce

24th Nov 2006, 13:02

ATC is ATC - the principle of not letting the flying things bang together is pretty much the same whether you are civil or military - it's just that sometimes we achieve that principle via slightly different methods. Oh yes, there was something else - in the RAF you may get the chance to do ATC whilst being shot at.

A good headin

24th Nov 2006, 18:33

Hi all
I was just wondering how many of you have (or are) been an ATC in the RAF. Im keen to join the RAF and im also keen to be an atc so i thought, why not be part of both.
I have read a what life can be like as a normal atc but ive never heard the point of view from an RAF ATC.
Just wondering how much is different and what yours views are.
Thanks
You have two choices.
Civvy Controlling- Same old blah every day. Aeroplane takes off, climbs, flies down airway, descends, goes around a hold and lands. Multiply by 150 times and that is your day. You will be well rewarded in you bank account for this task.
Military Controlling- Delete the airway bit,fannying around in the hold and the large wadge. Insert aircraft that whizz around at 600-700mph, air to air refuelling, supersonic runs, tactical controlling, getting out of/in the way of all the civvie controllers airliners, being shot at, living in a tent, being cold/hot and hungry,sand, teamwork,cruel banter, loyalty and dedication to Queen and Country for little recognition and there is your difference.
Good luck with you chosen career path my friend.

AlanM

24th Nov 2006, 18:47

....not quite how I remember Benson and Odiham mate.

Either way enjoy what you do - both have their merits (though when I was in there was a remnant of an empire.....!!:))

chevvron

24th Nov 2006, 18:54

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

24th Nov 2006, 19:27

<<Multiply by 150 times and that is your day. >>

All I can say, my son, is that you must have worked somewhere VERY quiet!!

Il Duce

24th Nov 2006, 19:39

Sorry, chevvron, but RAF controllers do air to air refuelling (one controller per AARA).

chevvron

24th Nov 2006, 19:57

Oh well, used to be so when I was at JATCRU, but that was over 30 years ago!
Do ficons still need 3 or 4 people to get two aircraft in the same bit of sky? I can do it by myself no problem.

SID East

24th Nov 2006, 20:04

Pretty much all been said but don't forget the opportunities for Adventurous Training and the like. Despite what people might say or think they are still there. If you are prepared to seek out these opportunities you can expect duty status for skiing, gliding, parachuting etc. and most sports.
This year I went from ski slope to sand storm within a few weeks. You can't beat the variety of jobs available and I personally appreciate the extra duties that give you something different to do other than controlling. If you join as an officer you will be expected to lead others and develop you management skills from an early stage. RAF (war fighter is the buzz word) first, controller second.
Go for the RAF option if you want the "service life" with ATC on top. You can always think about going civvy later in life.
As for the air to air refuelling I ended up learning the task, normally left to Area Radar types, whilst controlling in a well known location in southern Iraq. A short notice tactical towline was set up, the jets needed "snappy vectors" and I had to get the "chicks" to the "mother" very quickly as they were fuel critical. Luckily I had some ex Area types around to advise me. A great feeling to know you have helped out in real time operation. Was also de-conflicting with other jets in the area and civil aircraft. Quite a busy period but very rewarding.
Best of luck :ok:

BEXIL160

25th Nov 2006, 00:00

Ahem....

Nobody's mentioned it yet, but the Dark Blue also have ATC'ers.

All the fun of the light blue, but with a rolling horizon....not only on the odd run ashore.

(you can even live in a broom cupboard in Devonport Dockyard!...)

Nothing wrong with military ATC, light or dark blue. If that's what you'd like, go for it and enjoy to the full.

BEX

London Mil

25th Nov 2006, 06:40

I went the military route and haven't regretted a minute. That said, the two career paths are very different. PM me if you want a visit.

tired-flyboy

25th Nov 2006, 06:54

Ploddalong,

Check your PM's

TFB
:ok:

anotherthing

25th Nov 2006, 11:02

Ploddalong,

check your pms, but just as an aside, take everything you read on here with a pinch of salt. The only way to really compare it is by having done both, which some of us have. A Good Headin obviously does not have a clue what he is talking about regarding civvy controlling. (That said, some people, the likes of London Mil, tend to give an unbiased account and do not try to claim that one is better or worse than the other). On other words, don't listen to the bitchin' that goes on, a lot of it is tongue in cheek. Sarcasm has a big part to play in ATC, and an even bigger one in the forces.

Chevvron,

It's not only FCs that do AAR, either in theatre or at home.

and as Bexil says, it's not just the guys in the RAC uniforms that do mil ATC... The RN does it as well, and the uniform is better!!

The RAF was after all, formed on the 1st April 1918... surely the longest running April fools joke in history?!

Digging a scrape and waiting for incoming!!

Gonzo

25th Nov 2006, 11:48

You never know, those civvy guys at West Drayton might get shot at from time to time.......dangerous neighbourhood you know.
being cold/hot and hungry,sand, teamwork,cruel banter, loyalty and dedication
Hey, we've got all of that. :} 'cept the sand of course.

anotherthing

25th Nov 2006, 12:01

You never know, those civvy guys at West Drayton might get shot at from time to time.......dangerous neighbourhood you know.

I take it from that then Gonzo, that you are not going to buy one of the 'luxury' apartments that are springing up on the old RAF site?!!

Widger

25th Nov 2006, 15:01

Ploddalong, if you want to wear jeans and a t-shirt, drive a flash car, have loads of jewelery and pretty women on your arm, then join NATS. Only problem is that you will after a few years crave some variety, but think of the money!

If you want to wear badly cut denim, then join the crabs although as you will not be a member of the two winged master race, you will be a second class citizen. Still travel is good...Anglesey, Scotland, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Falklands, if you are lucky LACC, sat alongside young men with fast cars and women hanging off their arm, or if you are really lucky, Cyprus. Lots of variety, good career prospects (see NATS above) and you could end up doing Area Radar, which will be the most exciting and frightening controlling you will ever do. Plus getting shot at in west London.

Alternatively, you could join the Dark Blue. A small but elegant band with cheap cars and women/men of low voltage hanging off their arms. You could visit all the places above and more. Indeed if you are under 25, you could end up as one of the controllers on HMS Queen Elizabethhttp://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/images/cvf-thales-2005-stovl-image1.jpg sailing all around the world, a cocktail party in every port, a fine uniform and a large bar bill.

Whatever you choose, you will have made the right decision. I have seen all shades of ATC and they all offer great opportunity, cameraderie and job satisfaction. Remember, it will be two hours of boredom, followed by 2 minutes of utter terror.

:ok: :ok: :ok:

Gonzo

25th Nov 2006, 15:49

Anotherthing,

Heck no, I'd imagine they're far too expensive for me! :}

Ploddalong

25th Nov 2006, 16:42

Thanks to everyone who replied, and to those that PM'd me. Seems it doesnt matter what i decide to do, ill enjoy it either way.

Anyway ive got my Filter interview for the RAF on the 6th of December so ill see how that turns out. If i dont make it, ill try and apply for NATS. Not too sure the RN is for me.

:ok:

London Mil

26th Nov 2006, 06:46

Ploddalong, one top tip for your interview - be yourself! They (whether it is the RAF or NATS) will decide whether you are suited towards their company/organisation. If you try to BS either of them you will be rumbled.

Good luck and look forward to seeing you in an extremely fetching shade of blue.;)

anotherthing

26th Nov 2006, 15:48

London Mil,

you said:look forward to seeing you in an extremely fetching shade of blueread Ploddalongs last post properly - he states Not too sure the RN is for me:E

Wee Jock McPlop

27th Nov 2006, 07:28

Ploddalong,

If you listen to the more reasoned responses, then you'll be okay. Those that have experienced both careers tend to be able to see the best (and worst) of both worlds. There are many good things about mil and civvy controlling careers - both provide a challenging and rewarding career. I've done both. I thoroughly enjoyed my career in the RAF and am happy to have joined NATS.

The great distinction is that, outside of your day-to-day controlling duties in the RAF (or RN:ok: ), much much more will be expected of you. As others have said before me: Officer first, controller second. I left the RAF, as I was destined to sit behind a desk for the rest of my career. As your career as an officer progresses (as I hope it would), you are less and less likely to be involved as a coal face controller. That does suit quite a few, but did not appeal to me.

Good luck to you in whatever career path you choose to follow.

WJMcP

Chevvron,

As for the FC branch doing AAR. If the performance of the FC at MPA in 2000 was anything to go by:eek: , then not a lot of AAR would get done;) . Mil area radar mates are pretty handy at it.

Dances with Boffins

27th Nov 2006, 12:39

Widger - that is a model/computer-generated picture, ye scurvy dog. How many artist's impressions of "our new mighty carrier force" have you seen in the past 30 years?
Plod -
The dark blue suits [flying department] live in Somerset. They will see parts of Somerset that tourists seldom visit. They will be allowed to dance with local girls on a strict rota, with marriage only permitted if it is accompanied with a farm. They will occasionally be allowed to drive a tractor.

anotherthing

27th Nov 2006, 14:08

Dances With Boffins

The dark blue suits [flying department] live in Somerset.

Don't forget sunny(?) Culdrose and Plymouth Mil!!

chrisCJ

30th Nov 2006, 11:51

Ploddalong

30th Nov 2006, 14:07

Hey Plodalong , where have you got your interview on the 6th?...i got mine on that day too.... bricking it a bit as i really want a career in the RAF now....im looking at ATC and Intelligence...

Chris

I got mine in cambridge at 1:30

Im bricking it too, but to be honest, it sounds like if you do you research, and you have a couple of answers already before you get there, you should be fine.

Good luck :ok:

Widger

4th Dec 2006, 13:20

40 good reasons to join the RN

1986 Barbados, Virgin Gorda, Florida, Puerto Rico, Boston
1987 Florida, Tortola, Barbados, Charleston, Norfolk Virginia, Cherbourg
1990-92 Conception Island, Florida, Grand Cayman, New Orleans, Guantanamo Bay, New York, Halifax, Gibraltar, Alexandria, Istanbul, Cairo, Djibouti, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Sharja, Qatar, Kuwait City, Cochin, Singapore, Penang, Corinth Canal, Patras and Mount Etna.
1994 Vicenza, Venice and Lake Garda
2003-2005 Tenerife, Tromso, Copenhagen

Plus numerous visits to Newcastle, London, Paris, Warsaw and many other places, defending Britain's Interests Worldwide!

London Mil

4th Dec 2006, 14:11

Some of those whilst Widger was meant to be working for the RAF.:)

PS. Only 40 nights out in 15 years? Slacking a bit......

ratt

15th Dec 2006, 09:47

Don't forget sunny(?) Culdrose and Plymouth Mil!!

I think it's spreading a bit further now for Navy. Posts at HMS, I mean RAF Cottesmore and slots at Lossie and Valley if I am reliably informed. Prob many more out there.

Lomon

15th Dec 2006, 15:41

If you decide to work for NATS, you have to be willing to earn very little in your first 3 years (£10k in year one and £15k in years 2 and 3) and out of that you will need to find accomodation in Bournemouth for the duration of the course. However by the time you have done 16 years you could be earning nearly £90k (if the NATS website is to be believed)

If you go for the RAF, you start on a lot more, and accomodation is provided (although you have to make a small contribution) however the earning potential over your career is diminished. And the sand gets everywhere. Oh and the lift in the extremly tall tower in a hot dusty country doesn't work.

AdanaKebab

17th Dec 2006, 05:55

Air to air refuelling is surely the province of those Fighter 'Control' chappies; you know the ones who always try to get aircraft together instead of keeping them apart, and who need a team of 3 or 4 people to handle one aircraft.

If that were true it would mean the RAF only has about 4 aircraft given our current manning levels. However, my guess is you spend a large amount of your time and effort stressing about how to best insult the FC branch when, in truth, you don't actually have a scooby about air battle management and what we are trying to achieve. Best regards.;)

whowhenwhy

17th Dec 2006, 14:59

Adana kebab, what a great name for a scopey-very topical!

Ummm, an average of 4 aircraft serviceable per fleet is about right. What the Tornado's manage to lose out, the good old Jag picks up the slack.

Also, having done the JAMC and many elements of the TABM and been around the bizarres, it's obvious that many of you lot don't have that much of a scooby about air battle management yourselves.

There are a great number of your branch who are very switched on and have the wider picture about both jobs-strengths, weaknesses and where we can be mutually supportive. The fact is that both specializations are starting to finally smell the coffee, pull their heads out of their orifaces and work together.

From your post it seems that unfortunately you might be one of the blinkered mass who still thinks that a bunker is relevant. Tell me, do you look like a mole? Standing ready to be dis-abused of my rapidly reached opinion. :suspect: