Setting up a strip ...

[FullyFlapped]

I have finally found a local farmer who is willing to let me set up a strip on some of his land. It'll mean taking a fence down and a spot of tree pruning, but he's completely OK about all of that. There's even an exisiting building adjacent to the land going spare which is big enough to hanger the aircraft. Great stuff, so far so good.

If I stay under the movement limits (and how many is that, BTW?), is there anything else I need to do in terms of notifying anyone about anything ?

Any strip owners/operators care to share their experience and info please ?

Cheers,

FF :ok:

[QDMQDMQDM]

As everyone else will tell you, you can operate up to 28 days per year with no problems and as many as you like if no-one is counting. There's no 'movement' limit as far as I know.

[jonkil]

Just set up my strip this year too.
Buy a cheap tractor & topper mower, or get the farmer to do it for you... will need cutting weekly or twice weekly in the summer... If livestock is going to be anywhere near it then fence both sides with a single strand of electrified wire.
PUT A WINDSOCK UP..... very important.
This is mine when I cut if first for the preliminary alignment.... the red lines is where the strip is now...... 500 metres level and no restricted airspace & 50 metres from my back door !...wonderful
http://www.cairns.flyer.co.uk/ruskey.jpg

[blue up]

I've been working on a local farmer to see if I might use one of his fields that is too depleted for crops.
I'd recommend that you have a serious think about letting everyone within a wide swathe of the flightpath know just how "increadibly quiet" your plane is compared to tractors / mopeds / helicopters etc. Either you ignore them and hope they don't find the urge to kick-off or you make a pre-emptive "PR" strike. I dragged mine round to the farm and ran it, having first adjusted the slow running down to just over 500 rpm.:E

"Wow! That's so quiet that it won't frighten the sheep"


An aerial photo might also help.

"Wow! We didn't hear you go past here, yesterday"

[Arclite01]

I would be inclined to keep a low profile until you are established because if you don't you might get loads of unwelcome 'friends' just dropping in.

That will prejudice local good relations.

Arc

[IO540]

I am keeping half an eye on exactly the same thing, but I would want 700m+.

Money would not be a problem (within a reasonable budget, on the scale of agricultural land costs) since I am primarily after security from property sharks closing the local airfield, and weekend/weekday-accessible hangarage in the form of a shed of some sort.

I reckon that setting up covertly first, with low usage (say once a week) for a few months, might be a good idea. Obviously a field which doesn't have houses near is preferable; even in the most densely populated UK countryside there are loads of such fields.

The #1 problem I see is how does one zero in on one. It's easy to just fly around, with a GPS and marking waypoints over interesting sites. There is a vast number of suitable sites which have the requires attributes

- orientation to prevailing winds
- flatness
- road access (somewhere to park a car, and enough access for a trailer if there is a major issue that prevents it being flown out)
- lack of houses on the approach
- a barn nearby
- who owns the field beyond this one (if same person, OK, but if somebody else then he might deliberately plant some trees at the end of your strip...)

but how does one contact the owner? Presumably one can get the title details from the Land Reg, but that will work only if the land has been sold since the 1970s. A lot of farmland has not changed ownership for much longer than that.

This could be a very long slow process.

[stiknruda]

I really would counter against putting up a windsock for the first few years.

It does seem to attract light aircraft as a light does bugs.

Stk

[Them thar hills]

FF
I'd use the place very occasionally at first.
If you must have a windsock only have it put it up when you intend to visit, preferable manage without !
Don't base the aeroplane there from day 1.
If you have friends with stripping interests make sure they understand your situation and their obligations not to upset your apple-cart.
No circuits. In and out avoiding habitation.
Pick a breezy day for the first time in.
Do a bit of detective work in the local pub, someone has always noticed something, there may be valuable info/backfeed to be had.
Best of luck.
PS the above based on experience of helping set up several "new" strips.
TTH

[ChampChump]

Still available (through Amazon, if not the PFA) is Country Flying by Geoffrey Farr. It's not the Compleat Stripper but does have some useful practical advice, in addition to all the wisdom you'll get here about Nimbys and legal issues.

[nouseforaname]

I want to do this kind of thing too. I'm aiming for it in the near future. My plan is just to have paddocks in the fields (for horses) and an access road in the middle which is conveniently 12m x 600m, tarmac.

I'm going to do it ASAP. and keep the usage down for a long time. Remember if you have something in place and used 'a bit' then after 10yrs you have right to planning permission via default.

I'm aiming for somewhere rural i really want it to work. It brings the convenience of light aircraft to a whole new level when you can walk outside the house and hop into the plane!

[FullyFlapped]

Some top advice guys, thanks.

If anyone has anything else to add, please keep it coming!

FF :ok:

[DaveW]

Still available (through Amazon, if not the PFA) is Country Flying by Geoffrey Farr.

FWIW - I ordered this through Amazon a few months ago, after a previous recommendation here. Unfortunately after many weeks they stated that they were unable to source it.

[airborne_artist]

Google "Country Flying by Geoffrey Farr". Two UK aviation suppliers have it listed.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

My plan is just to have paddocks in the fields (for horses) ... I'm aiming for somewhere rural i really want it to work.
Is this going to work commercially? - if you're going to host lots of horses won't you need to be conveniently near lots of town-dwelling horse owners to pay the livery fees?

[shortstripper]

Is this going to work commercially? - if you're going to host lots of horses won't you need to be conveniently near lots of town-dwelling horse owners to pay the livery fees?

Yeah! It will :yuk: Half an hour from town is fine and plenty far enough to be "in the sticks" as far as a strip is concerned. Horsey people will happily travel that far for reasonably priced livery. However, they might get twitchy about the idea of a landing strip running through "their" paddocks! In reality it's a non issue, my wife's horses are in the paddock at the end of my strip and are fine as long as they know I'm coming. This does require a LOW AND CLOSE circuit at about 200' so they can "literally" watch you come around. Just appear, and hers go scatty, but they actually watch if they see/hear me coming, it's quite funny to see them looking as I turn finals! However, try convincing prospective horsey people that! It might work if you're cheap enough I suppose :D They will want to move well away, so the paddocks will need to be a couple of hundred yards long so they can move to the far end.
Lots of good advice so far, so I can't add much other than to say search for anything strip related ... lot's said before! One other thing, do not be too defensive if you get a complaint. Better to eat humble pie, go and visit the moaner and explain (in a nice way) what you are doing, that they won't suddenly have a vew Gatwick opening and that if they'd like a flight/photo of their house? then that would be no problem. Works wonders!

SS

[jonkil]

One other thing, do not be too defensive if you get a complaint. Better to eat humble pie, go and visit the moaner and explain (in a nice way) what you are doing, that they won't suddenly have a vew Gatwick opening and that if they'd like a flight/photo of their house? then that would be no problem. Works wonders!

That is probably the best bit of advice given so far

[Gertrude the Wombat]

However, try convincing prospective horsey people that!
Well, one day I was doing a PFL, and as I put on full power at 500' I realised that I was over the stables where some of my family go riding. So I caused an enquiry to be made about whether aeroplanes doing that sort of thing bothered the horses. "No," came back the answer.

[Zulu Alpha]

Remember if you have something in place and used 'a bit' then after 10yrs you have right to planning permission via default.

There can be one 'fly in the ointment'. The planners will give you permission based on the previous level of movements. You have to prove how many takeoffs and landings you have made. Then they work out the average and give you that level of movements.

So if you can 'prove' an average of 300 per year they will give you one movement per day. This cannot be carried forward if you don't use it. This can restrict whether you can have a friend or two over as the NIMBYs will be counting movements and will report any infringement.

[airborne_artist]

We have three horses and are close to Benson, as well Chiltern Microlights. The horses take very little notice, though they were a bit spooked by the Tornado in full re-heat at about 1,500' one day. Helicopters at less than 200' are a bit of a surprise as there is little noise in advance, and then it's loud, and there's the key; they hate loud noises close up with no warning, but if they hear the sound build gradually then they will be fine. An approach into a stiff breeze might thus be more of a problem than them getting plenty of warning because they are downwind of your approach.

I think the low overfly is a good plan, but I'm less sure about the prospective tenants being OK with it. You may have to do some demos, and bear in mind that some horses are naturally more spooky than others. Thoroughbreds can be very edgy, while a good Irish cob might not even bother.

[SlipSlider]

FF, good luck to you, I hope it all works out.

Can I ask .. how did you find your field and then approach the farmer?! Was it a cold-call, a friend of a friend, a chance encounter in the pub ... or?

Slip

[ChampChump]

The horses where I fly are unfazed by anything except the Rallye, which one or two seem to object to (and here I was going to add 'presumably on grounds of taste' but thought I couldn't face the incoming...:E ).
We get on well enough with their owners (Minders? Feeders? Financiers?) with agreed respect all round. Necessarily, as the livery stables are one side of the strip, a horsey field the other. Can't understand why they're so desirable though: no airbrakes, don't seem to sideslip and no Off switch.

[FullyFlapped]

SlipSlider,

A slightly strange question ... anyway, it was very straight forward really.

I have lived for a long time in a very rural community, the sort where most people know most people and some people know everything - even before it happens! I'm sure you know the sort of thing : living around here can make the Archers seem positively cosmopolitan.

I must have flown over these fields dozens of time (taking friends and family etc), but one day it just clicked how ideal those fields down there could be, if they were as flat as they looked from up here, subject to a few modifications. After that it was simple : I knew which farmer owned the land, saw him in the pub one night, and from that point on the negotiations were done in the time-honoured, Yorkshire-aled-up manner !

Lots of hoops to jump through yet but fingers crossed.

FF :ok:

[rogcal]

On the subject of a windsock or not, may I suggest the following.

When I set my strip up 3 years ago, I pondered the same question and initially decided against one, as I didn't fancy advertising myself to those in the air and the potential nimbys on the ground but not being able to get a "feel for the wind" without walking of the house and out onto the strip became tiresome.

The answer was found at a model aircraft display in the form of a small windsock about 2ft long and coloured red and white rather than hi-viz yellow or orange.

The benefit of it's colour and size were immediately apparent when I stuck it on top of the 15ft scaffold pole, I'd put up six months earlier. From the air it is hard to spot unless you know where it is and are looking for it.

From the ground, easily observed from my house and anywhere on the strip but low enough not to stand out on the horizon and the red and white surprisingly becomes indistinct from the background landscape when viewed from a distance.

I had to compromise a bit on it's location/height and the effects of wind gradients and shear caused by some local topography (the house and surrounding large trees and raised river bank adjacent to the strip) but I quickly realised how these obstacles effected the socks response to the wind direction from certain quarters and soon learned how to read the "sock" in these circumstances.

Good luck with your venture and hope the above helps.

Only downside is that being designed for use by model fliers and not 24/7 use it only lasts around 12 months but at £7, I'm not complaining.

[IO540]

It's actually trivial to set up a £300 weather station, which you can read from a display inside the house, or remotely over the internet.

I reckon one could even make it send you an SMS with the current data :)

It could be solar powered and would be well hidden, with just the top poking up through the top of a tree or hedge.

Windsocks are not essential.

[muffin]

Windsocks are not essential. I decided against one so as not to advertise my presence lurking inside the barn. When I arrive, I bend down, grab a handful of grass and chuck it in the air. I decide the take off direction accordingly. On my return, I either look for smoke, use the take off direction I established earlier, or if all else fails switch on the radio and ask the local ATC who always oblige.

[SlipSlider]

FF, thanks. Strange question? :E Not really! Perhaps I should have explained....

I've been quietly floating around looking at fields locally, and studying OS maps, with the same longterm intent. But I live in the overcrowded south, a denizen of suburbia, and I don't know any farmers, so I was simply hoping for some hints how to make an approach to one. I guess I shall have to knock on the farmhouse door, and just wing it! :)

Slip

[IO540]

What are the ownership rules as they relate to the 28-day rule? Can one simply purchase a field and use it? Or does it have to be leased back to a farmer so there is some "other use" too?

Agricultural land is usually very cheap.

[nouseforaname]

I know what you are saying about if you don't use the strip then you won't be able to prove that you used it. However low usage means that not many people will notice it. Then after 10yrs you can just try and get full planning for as many movements as practically possible. It's all about playing the game really. I have a strip at the moment in my back yard 850m by 17m enough to land a small jet. I had to get an environmental survey done which cost £12k but apart from that it's worked out pretty well. I've only got planning for 12 movements per year, but use it about 100!

[pistongone]

I want to do this kind of thing too. I'm aiming for it in the near future. My plan is just to have paddocks in the fields (for horses) and an access road in the middle which is conveniently 12m x 600m, tarmac.
I'm going to do it ASAP. and keep the usage down for a long time. Remember if you have something in place and used 'a bit' then after 10yrs you have right to planning permission via default.
I'm aiming for somewhere rural i really want it to work. It brings the convenience of light aircraft to a whole new level when you can walk outside the house and hop into the plane!
Now i am no lawyer but i think this next statement rather puts a "Nouse" round your neck:E One of them must be a falsetruth!

"nouseforaname" "I know what you are saying about if you don't use the strip then you won't be able to prove that you used it. However low usage means that not many people will notice it. Then after 10yrs you can just try and get full planning for as many movements as practically possible. It's all about playing the game really. I have a strip at the moment in my back yard 850m by 17m enough to land a small jet. I had to get an environmental survey done which cost £12k but apart from that it's worked out pretty well. I've only got planning for 12 movements per year, but use it about 100!"
By the way Nouse, where roughly is your strip near London? Cos to me it sounds more like Fantasy Island! So Sunday afternoon you want to do this! And hey presto Monday not only have you done it, but you have had an environmental survey and satisfied the 10 year rule!!:confused: :confused: :confused: Does the machine you fly look like an old Blue Police box and have a sexy assistant in it by any chance?

[shortstripper]

Agricultural land is usually very cheap.

Alas, like most thinks ... It suddenly becomes expensive when you actually want to buy it. Agric land is cheap when sold in quantity. The average price per acre quoted in publications such as "Farmers Weekly", is based on land sold around the country agriculturally, ie in large lots between farmers. Try and buy a 5 acre paddock for your pony and you'll see what I mean!

If you buy a field with the intention of using it as an airstrip it will not qualify as a 28 day rule airstrip. How can it? The field's primary use is for the airstrip itself! You will need to set yourself up as a smallholder with a agricultural holding number, and farm the land (in whatever way you choose) or rent it to a farmer, use it for horses or whatever. You can then apply the 28 day rule for your strip.

I'm sure I've told you this before in another strip related thread?

SS

[QDMQDMQDM]

The bloke at Upfield Fam has tarmaced his strip and been served with an enforcement order, so watch out.

[nouseforaname]

PistonGone....strip is actually in not in UK. I'm based in London but it doesn't mean the strip was there I never said that.

Agricultural land has gone up in price in Q4. 2006 and is expected to go up even more in the UK due to a crop failure in some strong exporter country (can't remember where) but expect land to be heading towards the 15k/acre pretty shortly!

.....where is the upfield farm strip? that's bad news about having to take up the lovely tarmac.

[pistongone]

Nouseforname,
If you are talking of another country then i apologise, however from your post you seem to be talking of British Law! Ie:- "I know what you are saying about if you don't use the strip then you won't be able to prove that you used it. However low usage means that not many people will notice it. Then after 10yrs you can just try and get full planning for as many movements as practically possible. It's all about playing the game really. I have a strip at the moment in my back yard 850m by 17m enough to land a small jet. I had to get an environmental survey done which cost £12k but apart from that it's worked out pretty well. I've only got planning for 12 movements per year, but use it about 100!" All the facts in that statement relate to British Law, however if you live in another country with equally bureaucratic rule makers, then i feel sorry for you to! Also you give your Location as London and talk of a strip near London, which is why i made the assumption you were talking of a strip near London.
I will make you an offer Nouse, post the co-ordinates of your strip in another country and i will google earth it, and if there is a strip there 850m long, then i will give you a free hour flying in the Fire Engine, how's that sound? And if its 17m wide i will give you another hour!:ok:
PS Upfield Farm is appx 10nm S.E of Newport Wales

[airborne_artist]

NFN - there is no way that agricultural land in England will fetch £15,000/acre following a crop failure in Outer Gongolia. Average price is less than £10,000/hectare, which equates to £4050/acre.

That said you won't get amenity land (land that can not be built on, but for which agriculture is not the prime purpose) for that price - expect to pay three times the price and more, depending on how much the seller thinks you want it/can afford.

Strutt and Parker say avg = £3061/acre (http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2006/10/12/98685/optimistic-arable-sector-keeps-land-price-on-rise.html)

[nouseforaname]

No I do think that agricultural land in the UK is worth more than that. Modern valuation methods that Strutt and Parker would be using would stem from a residual profit making valuation. The same as you would value a pub/restaurant. These methods of valuation do not take into account demand, availability and location etc.:D

Piston gone I don't think that the area where my strip in Ireland is will be photographed on google earth. but if you pm me i'll send you a picture to your e-mail address. Hows that. I'll even show you my once milking parlour now hangar!

[pistongone]

NFN PM sent:ok:

[shortstripper]

I'll even show you my once milking parlour now hangar!

Great things, ex-milking parlours! Part of our old one (SS tubing) is now the exhaust system on my aeroplane :D

SS

[pistongone]

PUBLIC APOLOGY:ouch: :ouch:
Nouseforaname has a strip longer and better condition than Elstree!!
How about the co-ordinates for a visit then:ok:

[IO540]

I may be thinking of purchasing some land and applying for planning at the outset, with a budget to cover an appeal, first to Bristol and then to the Dept of Environment, over a few years.

10 movements a week?

Somebody I know has done this in Spain recently. Different regs I know, but it took him a few years. His is tarmac though, fantastic.

[blue up]

Shortstripper. SS tubing exhaust from the milking parlour??
I've just worked out who you are. (I think)
(You admired my very quiet engine at FFF.)
PS 8 acres here for £45,000est at auction. Into wind and 700 yds +.
Just outside the Cardiff zone. No doubt gone to some 'Violet Elizabeth' for her pony. :(

[shortstripper]

Well Blue up, you might just be right! (eh Rob? ;) ) The milking parlour stainless tubing was the perfect size for my VW exhaust pipes so why not? lol Not as quiet as yours I must admit, but not bad!

Dammit, I remember the days when a 50 acre working dairy farm could be purchased for that price :( ... worse thing is that it also made more money per acre then than it does now!!!! :{

SS

[nouseforaname]

IO540..don't know if this would be any help to you but AOPA have got a planning department. I think it's a lady in there that used to be a town planner. They are there to fight your case so you should get in touch with her and just ask because i'm sure she would have some experience of people who want to do what you and I want....

[mazzy1026]

Noob question......

Is this the dream or is there more to it?

http://www.buytofly.co.uk/#pics01

:ok:

[IO540]

That's Slinfold. Not far from Dunsfold. It's real allright. A nice airfield, established with (IIRC) full planning. It came on the market 1-2 years ago at £1.8M (I still have the newspaper cutting dated 17 Feb 2005 right here) and I thought I heard it was sold quite some months ago. I don't have £1.5M and it's a bit far for me to drive so I didn't buy it. Otherwise it seems ideal.

A lot of money to pay for the house though (worth 750k I guess) and having to put up with other pilots coming and going. It's purely a "pilot's purchase" but few UK private pilots will have 1.5M to spend. Slinfold is also not exactly in an attractive area, IMHO, for the price.

It's a bit like that air park in Murcia, Spain, that has been "nearly ready" for several years. It looks great but then you have to ask yourself whether you really want to live next to a busy airport (they would have a school there) and pay a premium price for the house and live in the middle of nowhere. The formula works with US air parks, where one has low activity.

It seems to me that the real issue is if you want to operate a decent long distance plane from a strip. If you want to fly a microlight or something like a Maule that gets airborne in 100m or so, you have many more options. For something like a TB20 or an SR22 one needs 700m of good flat grass. One can get airborne in 300-400m but not if it's raining.

[mazzy1026]

Thanks IO - I can only ever dream :{

[stray10level]

It appears this strip has a may have a chequered history:confused: See the link for more! http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/region_wide/2005/12/10/236290fa-8c3a-4901-8430-a5d36221fa88.lpf I am sure Soothwater and Slinfold are one and the same? Maybe thats why it was up for sale!:sad: