Tibenham Airfield Fly-In - December 31

[SkyHawk-N]

I've got Tibenham Airfield for the 30th and 31st December if people are interested in popping in for an end-of-year breakfast or lunch. If you are seriously interested please let me know so that I can get the numbers expected. Hopefully the weather will be suitable on one of the days!
We have three long and wide tarmac runways in the classic 'A' formation, We are located inbetween Old Buckenham and Seething.
There will be all day breakfasts available, if you would like anything different let us know as we could even get a Saturday/Sunday roast arranged. If you are vegetarian it will be no problem. There is also a licenced bar for passengers and you can be assured of a warm festive welcome.
The club asks for a £5 landing donation which will go towards the development of the airfield.

[Whirlygig]

Count me and Mother in! I don't know whether we'll be flying in but will definitely prop up the bar!

Cheers

Whirls

[stiknruda]

Skyhawk - I'll pop over (all of 6 miles) on the 31st.

Stik

[Zulu Alpha]

Will try and drop in for breakfast depending on the weather. I've got 12 miles to fly so hope I don't get lost!!
When you say I've got Tibenham Airfield for the 30th and 31st December do you mean you've got it all to yourself? Do they let it out?
Also, will there be a radio frequency?
ZA

[SkyHawk-N]

Will try and drop in for breakfast depending on the weather. I've got 12 miles to fly so hope I don't get lost!!
When you say I've got Tibenham Airfield for the 30th and 31st December do you mean you've got it all to yourself? Do they let it out?
Also, will there be a radio frequency?
ZA

When I say 'I've got Tibenham' I mean that I have them prepared for the fly-in. The airfield belongs to the Norfolk Gliding Club but they don't have much gliding going on at that time and this gives us powered folk an opportunity. They are trying to encourage the airfield's use more in the future as it's such a great asset. An example of this is a brand new hangar which is under construction to house more powered aircraft.

Nearer the time I'll put all the airfield details up on the internet, there is an A/G freq. and I'll probably be at the end of it giving out info.

BTW, it looks like Sunday is the most popular day so far.

[ChampChump]

I'd be up for that, with the usual caveats (getting up in time to use the daylight being the biggest...:uhoh: ).

[SkyHawk-N]

Don't worry ChampChump we'll provide an early morning wake-up call for you! :ok:

[ChampChump]

With tea in my favourite mug?

[SkyHawk-N]

Tell you what, bring along your favourite mug and we'll fill it to the brim (with tea), for free!

[Whirlygig]

Does that go for everyone 'cos I drinks a lorra tea!

Hope to see you Stik with A!

Cheers

Whirls

[SkyHawk-N]

Does that go for everyone 'cos I drinks a lorra tea!

Hope to see you Stik with A!

Cheers

Whirls

Re. the tea. I'll buy the first ten teas of the day, you can't say fairer than that! :ok:

Oh, and there may be some more free things to eat as well!

[Lister Noble]

Hope to be there in the Cub for one of the days,providing I don't get lost!
Lister;)

[stiknruda]

Sat - we'll still be the States. So Sunday then, assuming wx and waterlogging are not major problems.

Whirly - I'll try and convince her to slum it. Muti-engined Boeings are fine, but anything lesser than a B206 causes condescension.

[formationfoto]

Will see if I can get a Seething formation across. Otherwise Chipmunk or Brantly. It is in my diary for the sunday.

[SkyHawk-N]

formationphoto, you and the Seething mob will be most welcome.

za, lister, whirly, stik, it will be great to meet you all. I've mentioned this fly-in on the Flyer forum and there seems to be interest on there as well. We are hoping for a good turn out.

[ChampChump]

So that's ten teas for all the locals......
I'll do a new weight and balance and bring a tea bag :E
It'll be fun - assuming we don't get bogged down, down here, dahn sarf, in the interim.

I'll be the one with the large, empty mug. Just like I always look.

[Legalapproach]

I'm up for the Sunday.

[pistongone]

Shemy,
seeing as its the serason of good will and stuff, i will be going from York area, so give me a call and maybe we can take you for the price of a burger!

[TheKentishFledgling]

Hope to be there on the 31st.

tKF

[SKYYACHT]

I could well be up for it! I did some gliding at Tibbenham years ago - will there be a chance to do any flights, or is that just pushing it? Also, I seem to recall that they had some bunkhouse accommodation. Is that still available?


Cheers


Mark

[Bob Stinger]

With a bit of luck i will come along from EGNH, and tea, i drink like a camel!

[trevs99uk]

Any updates on this event..

trev

[SkyHawk-N]

Any updates on this event..
trev

Trev,

The Tibenham fly-in is definately set for Sunday 31st December. I will be putting a web page up on the internet with airfield information and more details on Sunday.

[SkyHawk-N]

Here is some information for Tibenham Airfield. I'll also put some aerial pictures up to give you an idea of what the area looks like.

http://www.csharpprogrammer.com/NGC/TibenhamAirfield.html

If anyone spots any mistakes or needs additional information please let me know.

[twelveoclockhigh]

only one mistake spotted - buckenham a/g is 124.40

[SkyHawk-N]

Well spotted twelveoclockhigh, just fixed it.

[SkyHawk-N]

I could well be up for it! I did some gliding at Tibbenham years ago - will there be a chance to do any flights, or is that just pushing it? Also, I seem to recall that they had some bunkhouse accommodation. Is that still available?
Cheers
Mark

Mark,

I checked up on the gliding. There may be some gliding taking place so there may well be an opportunity to have a go. It will be at a much reduced volume though due to the Christmas holiday.

[SteveR]

Adding a 'me too' to this thread to bring it to the top, and to point out that there is a registration page for this get-together, it's in 'the other place', so I hope this won't get donked.

Sooo looking forward to this, not been to a flyin and caught up with old faces for years. Fingers crossed for the wx.

http://www.flyer.co.uk/flyins/flyin.php?a=79


Steve R

[Stampe]

Yes please Condor from Rochester subject to grass condition there.

[SkyHawk-N]

Thanks for posting the Booking Page address Steve-R, I didn't know whether doing that was the 'done thing' mentioning it on here, but it is for the greater good! :ok:

Just an update on the event.

There will be people on the end of the radio during the day. Please make an initial call about 5 miles out, if there is no response make blind Downwind/Base/Final calls for the benefit of others in and around the circuit. I will post circuit directions nearer the time.

Gliders may be launched during the day but at a VERY much reduced frequency to normal. The guys on the radio will also be controlling the glider launches and are aware of the powered aircraft which are expected.

There will be someone on the ground to direct you to hard-stand parking.

There is a suggested £5 landing donation. All money will be put towards the Development Fund to develop the airfield facilities for all aviators. (If anyone is interested we have two spare places available in a brand new powered aircraft hangar. If interested please contact me for more details).

Fuel will be available but please let me know your requirements as soon as possible by email or by PM.

If you fancy a go in a glider during the day let me know and I'll see if it can be accomodated.

A Sunday roast will be available from around midday, as well as the usual all day breakfasts, sandwiches, etc, etc. We have a licensed bar for use by passengers.

We very much look forward to seeing you all.

[SkyHawk-N]

Yes please Condor from Rochester subject to grass condition there.
Hope you can make it Stampe, you will be able to see our Condor if you can.

[BRL]

Skyhawk, I have done the edit you requested. :)

Anyone going from the South Coast???????????

[Stampe]

Got a pix of my original Condor at Tibbs with both your Condor tugs a nice line up.......ah nostalgia.

[Andy_R]

Skyhawk, I have done the edit you requested. :)
Anyone going from the South Coast???????????

I may have a spare seat, you have my number.

[TheKentishFledgling]

Skyhawk, I have done the edit you requested. :)
Anyone going from the South Coast???????????

Possibly from Manston. If Andy can't help, PM me, and I'm sure I can get to Shoreham.

tKF

[SkyHawk-N]

A few updates ....

- A Laser is expected at around 12.00 and will do a few 'twiddles and twirls' with smoke before landing. http://www.pilotweb.aero/content/imagegallery/display.aspx?imageID=15524&galleryID=355

- Someone mentioned that there MAY be a yellow harvard turning up and said there might be the opportunity for people to have a flight on a cost sharing basis. I'll find out more.

- Depending on the weather there may also be the opportunity of a go in a glider if you have ever wondered what it is like. Let me know if you are interested.

A LOT of 'maybe's but it sounds like it is going to be fun.

[Humaround]

Sorry if I've missed this info somewhere, but the Tibenham info posted says fuel for members only. Will fuel be available to those flying-in?
thanks

[SkyHawk-N]

Sorry if I've missed this info somewhere, but the Tibenham info posted says fuel for members only. Will fuel be available to those flying-in?
thanks
Yes, fuel will be available as I will be there to help with refuelling (:ouch: ). If anyone will need some please me know how much may be required.

[Zulu Alpha]

Hoping to see a few of you at Tibenham on 31st. Expecting to arrive in the Laser around 12.00 and to do a few twiddles and twirls with smoke before landing.
http://www.pilotweb.aero/content/imagegallery/display.aspx?imageID=15524&galleryID=355
Maybe we can persuade some of the Pitts boys to do the same

[SteveR]

As mentioned elsewhere, there's a chance that the yellow harvard, normally out of Rochester but currently out of Lydd is coming along, and he's always keen to demo the aircraft to people with the pockets to share costs.

BTW, If we notify our fuel needs, how much notice will we need to give and can we pay with plastic?

Steve R

[SkyHawk-N]

As mentioned elsewhere, there's a chance that the yellow harvard, normally out of Rochester but currently out of Lydd is coming along, and he's always keen to demo the aircraft to people with the pockets to share costs.
BTW, If we notify our fuel needs, how much notice will we need to give and can we pay with plastic?
Steve R
A day or twos notice will be fine about the fuel. We have sufficient supplies but if we suddenly have 40 aircraft all wanting to be brimmed there MAY be a problem and it will give us enough time to tell people there will be a limit. A few have registered interest in fuel so I'm sure this problem won't occur. It also gives me warning on how much I will be turning the pump handle!

Plastic? don't you know this is Norfolk! :} We can take cash and personal cheques. I'll check but I don't believe we can take plastic payments at the moment.

[XL319]

post deleted

[SkyHawk-N]

I've just updated the Tibenham Airfield information page. If 914m wasn't long enough for you to land on there is good news. In the 2007 pooleys the 03/21 runway has grown to 1600m x 46m and 15/33 has grown to 1250m x46m.

http://www.csharpprogrammer.com/ngc/tibenhamairfield.html

[Ni Thomas]

I'll try and be there from sunny Bournemouth :)
Fuel will most definitely be desired .... 44litres .....Please

[formationfoto]

Skyhawk
Is rotary OK?
Chipmunk is out of action at present and not sure how many of the Seething crew I can stor into action but if no suitable formation then might drag the noisy whirely thing out.

Ian

[SkyHawk-N]

Skyhawk
Is rotary OK?
Chipmunk is out of action at present and not sure how many of the Seething crew I can stor into action but if no suitable formation then might drag the noisy whirely thing out.
Ian

Hi Ian. Rotary will be just fine, please make it known on first contact on the radio. We have plenty of room for you to set it down away from the other parked aircraft.

[SteveR]

Shemy: Did you get offered a lift yet? (Come on chaps, he asked nicely ages ago.


Steve R

[SkyHawk-N]

So what does everyone think? I've been at the airfield today and apart from the stiff wind, which was right down runway 21, it was not a bad day for a flight.

Tomorrow morning and midday look ok around our area although everyone will believe it when they see it.

Myself and many others will be around all day to welcome those who can make the fly-in. Depending on the weather there will be the opportunity to have a glider flight. 100LL will be available if required.

The roast dinner available has been changed to Pork from Beef! actually I got that wrong and have now been corrected. Other food will be available including all day breakfasts, sandwiches, lasagna, etc.

Runway in use will probably be 21, very long and very wide! Please make a call 5 miles out on Tibenham Radio 129.975 A/G, if no response please make blind calls for others. It will probably be a lefthand circuit, please make downwind and final calls. Your downwind leg should be over the convenient railway line a mile to the east. On landing taxy towards the clubhouse and a freezing me will direct you where to park, I'll be the bright yellow one.
If anyone has questions please ask.

[Stampe]

Hope tosee you tomorrow but looking at the long TAF for EGSS 301030Z 301818 21020G35KT 9999 SCT015 TEMPO 1820 3000 +RA BKN012 BKN020CB PROB30 TEMPO 1820 24030G55KT TSRA BECMG 2123 24015G25KT BECMG 0912 20015G25KT TEMPO 1518 20022G35KT 7000 RADZ BKN012=.Will make the final decision in the morning.Runway should be in to wind but surface condition at my home field Rochester not looking good.Regards Stampe

[ChampChump]

With 30kts forecast over the strip here I predict a no-go for me.
Time will tell, though....
Empty mug ready, just in case.
CC

[stiknruda]

Mmmmmmmnnn,

Landed in London at lunchtime and said to travelling partner, "If this wx holds, I'll pop over to Tibenham tomorrow!"

It's now 1900 and the wind gusting at 50kts has just broken my annenometer but it is from just east of south! I'm only about 5 miles from Tibs.

If it abates, I'll be over and I will liaise with ZA to ensure we don't end up trying to outdo each other with smoke & smash "on".

[SkyHawk-N]

Mmmmmmmnnn,
Landed in London at lunchtime and said to travelling partner, "If this wx holds, I'll pop over to Tibenham tomorrow!"
It's now 1900 and the wind gusting at 50kts has just broken my annenometer but it is from just east of south! I'm only about 5 miles from Tibs.
If it abates, I'll be over and I will liaise with ZA to ensure we don't end up trying to outdo each other with smoke & smash "on".

And you will be very welcome! :ok:

ZA said he'd call in the morning to give us an accurate time to clear the skies of any glider activity. I'll also PM you my mobile number just in case you need it.

[Zulu Alpha]

Probably arriving around 12.00 but forecast says weather will be OK from 9.00 so will ring when I'm ready.

[niknak]

Hope tosee you tomorrow but looking at the long TAF for EGSS 301030Z 301818 21020G35KT 9999 SCT015 TEMPO 1820 3000 +RA BKN012 BKN020CB PROB30 TEMPO 1820 24030G55KT TSRA BECMG 2123 24015G25KT BECMG 0912 20015G25KT TEMPO 1518 20022G35KT 7000 RADZ BKN012=.Will make the final decision in the morning.Runway should be in to wind but surface condition at my home field Rochester not looking good.Regards Stampe

I'd have thought a TAF for Norwich would be more reliable, whatever, it's still going to be windy......
(BTW... we still have a longer runway,full Radar/ATC service, ooodles more fuel and ridiculously more expensive landing fees than Tibbenham - none of which I can do anything about).

Enjoy your day.

[SkyHawk-N]

I'd have thought a TAF for Norwich would be more reliable, whatever, it's still going to be windy......
(BTW... we still have a longer runway,full Radar/ATC service, ooodles more fuel and ridiculously more expensive landing fees than Tibbenham - none of which I can do anything about).
Enjoy your day.

<BANTER>and Tibenham are infinately more GA friendly than Norwich International</BANTER> :}

[Stampe]

Ah but Norwich don,t offer a longTAF !8/24hour.I,ll wait till the 9 hours come ouit in the morning before making a decision.here,s the latest Stansted Long TAF 301630Z 310024 24017G27KT 9999 SCT015 BECMG 0912 20015G25KT TEMPO 1519 20022G35KT 7000 RADZ BKN012 BECMG 1922 24017G27KT PROB30 TEMPO 2224 6000 SHRA.Regards Stampe

[Ni Thomas]

Sorry chaps(and chapettes) I won't be getting the pleasure of meeting up with you all. :(
The weather is OK at the moment but the Bournemouth TAF for the time I'd expect to be getting back here is just a tad over the top.

EGHH 310909Z 311019 23015G25KT 9999 BKN015 BECMG 1013 23025G35KT TEMPO 1219 6000 RA BKN014 PROB40 TEMPO 1519 23035G45KT 3000 +RA BKN010CB=

Thanks SkyH-N for trying :D
Maybe next year eh?

In any event have a happy and above all safe year in 2007

[SkyHawk-N]

To those who can't make it, thanks for letting us know. We totally understand anyone who decides against it!

I took the Cessna up to check it out here this morning, wind right down 21 making for very nice landings. The wind is a bit stronger over 1,000ft but the viz isn't too back at all. It's broken cloud at a highish level, approx, 4,000? maybe higher.

It will be good to see people but please fly safe, I'm sure you will.

[ChampChump]

Wind here forecast 25 gusting 40 this afternoon: sorry all, but I'm not brave enough.

Best wishes to all.
CC

[stiknruda]

Skyhawk - just tried to ring you, no answer!

Will be over after 1200.

Will call again

Stik

[Stampe]

Sorry Rochester have declared their runways closed due waterlogging ...so decision taken for me.Flight back into wind at 90kts TAS might have been interesing.Thank you so much for organising this event,would have been a super day out.VBR Stampe:ok:

[Zulu Alpha]

Skyhawk,

Thanks for organising the fly in, sorry I didn't stay longer or whizz about a bit more but lowish cloudbase prevented anything more exciting.

Will try and drop in again if you organise another do.

ZA

[stiknruda]

Skyhawk,

Thanks for organising the fly in, sorry I didn't stay longer or whizz about a bit more but lowish cloudbase prevented anything more exciting.

Will try and drop in again if you organise another do.

Stik:E :E :E

[Legalapproach]

Skyhawk,
Thanks for organising the fly in, sorry I didn't stay longer or whizz about a bit more but lowish power prevented anything more exciting.
Will try and drop in again if you organise another do.
Legalapproach :ok: :ok: :ok: :E

[SkyHawk-N]

Guys,

It was my pleasure organising the fly in, sorry you didn't stay longer or whizz about a bit more but I understand the lowish cloudbase prevented anything more exciting.

Will try and organise another do for you to drop in again.

Skyhawk-N :E :E :E

10 quid down on the day :ouch:

[Zulu Alpha]

10 quid down on the day :ouch:
See your pm's
ZA

[Stampe]

What will happen now is loads of stories ....and pictures of everyone who did get there having a really great time and being shownround by the "Tibbenham topless ladies volleyball team" yeah yeah!!.The Norwich metar was infuriatingly cavok when I got up this morning!!.:D

[SkyHawk-N]

What will happen now is loads of stories ....and pictures of everyone who did get there having a really great time and being shownround by the "Tibbenham topless ladies volleyball team" yeah yeah!!.The Norwich metar was infuriatingly cavok when I got up this morning!!.:D

The weather was a bit odd today. It started out nice but waves of cloud came over, only a small rain shower, the wind came and went but got a bit stronger at the very end of the day.

We had about 15 aircraft of various types turn up, from an Aztec to a Brantley helicopter, Cessnas, Pipers, a Laser, a Pitts, and some other tail dragger types. Nice to see them all.

Thanks to all those who made it, sorry we didn't meet up to all those who couldn't make it. It appeared everyone enjoyed themselves which is all we could ask for. We made some new friends and generally had a good time. :D

More of these events will be going on at Tibenham and the airfield is always there to be used during the weekends.

[Keef]

An excellent "do", and a goodly gathering of the rogues of aviation ;)

Thoroughly enjoyed it. "I'll be back" (that should make you quake in your boots).

[formationfoto]

Thanks for organising
Sorry couldnt whizz around a bit more but the gravity and the physics of helicopters prevented me from flying upside down - actually you can do it - but only once on your final flight!.

Next time will get a better seething formation sorted.

Put me down to assist with a flying display.......
Would be a great location. I understand there have been a few discussions. Not difficult to organise the flying element - happy to be Fying Display Director.

Ian

[Phil Space]

Guys,
It was my pleasure organising the fly in, sorry you didn't stay longer or whizz about a bit more but I understand the lowish cloudbase prevented anything more exciting.
Will try and organise another do for you to drop in again.
Skyhawk-N :E :E :E
10 quid down on the day :ouch:

SkyHawk,

I am a long way from you but nice to see the Tibenham crowd are still so friendly.
Got my aircraft resprayed there years by Mike Simms. It is a shame Seething flying club are not building a new hangar like you lot to welcome more flyers. They have an anti newcomers attitude unlike the Norfolk Gliding Club.
:ok:

[formationfoto]

SkyHawk,
I am a long way from you but nice to see the Tibenham crowd are still so friendly.
Got my aircraft resprayed there years by Mike Simms. It is a shame Seething flying club are not building a new hangar like you lot to welcome more flyers. They have an anti newcomers attitude unlike the Norfolk Gliding Club.
:ok:

well why would we want anyone else to enjoy aviation?. Our aim is to be as unfriendly as possible. Actually thinking of knocking one of the hangars down in case anyone gets to stick an aircraft there.

Visitors have been known to turn up without seeking permission five years in advance. They, rightly, are forced to stand out in the rain and park their aircraft the other side of the airfield.

[stiknruda]

Put me down to assist with a flying display.......


Best put me down then to exercise the privilges of my DA.:eek:


Stik

[SkyHawk-N]

Best put me down then to exercise the privilges of my DA.:eek:
Stik

Just let us know when this flying display is taking place and we'll come and watch! :E

[SkyHawk-N]

BTW, several good people have expressed concerns over my comment about the £10 down. This was a direct dig at my good Wife who enthusiastically bought everyone drinks! she has had her allowance cut as a result so we are now all square! :E

[Zulu Alpha]

Quote:
Put me down to assist with a flying display.......
Best put me down then to exercise the privilges of my DA.
Stik
Let me know and I'll display myself as well.
ZA :E :E :E
ps wish I'd known there were free drinks on your wifes tab.
pps today was much nicer, wall to wall blue, a bit cold and breezy. Was near Tibenham practicing in 30kt wind, fortunately straight down the LKI runway.

[formationfoto]

Let me know and I'll display myself as well.
ZA :E :E :E
ps wish I'd known there were free drinks on your wifes tab.
pps today was much nicer, wall to wall blue, a bit cold and breezy. Was near Tibenham practicing in 30kt wind, fortunately straight down the LKI runway.

ZA

Perhaps with our enthusiasm we can comvince them to hold a display this year. I think I have your contact details somewhere from when we did those shots at Seething but could you please forward so that I can put you in my East Anglia display contact book. (send to [email protected]).

Ian

[Zulu Alpha]

Ian,

You should receive an email from me.

ZA

[formationfoto]

ZA
I might do if I had left the correct address! - a couple of letters transposed - let me try again:

[email protected]

[Flyin'Dutch']

ZA
I might do if I had left the correct address! - a couple of letters transposed - let me try again:
[email protected]


Not easy to spell one's own name!



Apparently!

:}

HNY

[formationfoto]

FD
HNY2U2
CU@EGSJN2007?

Not easy spelling your own name when under the influence of one of those large bottles of Leffe!

Rgds

[SkyHawk-N]

Hey Zulu Alpha, you made the centre pages of today's EDP :cool: Alongside you is a picture of James 'Jimmy' Stewart :cool: .....and one of me! :ugh:

Can't see a picture of a Pitts anywhere though :E

[Zulu Alpha]

S H

We don't receive the EDP here south of the border in Suffolk!!!

is there any way for me to see a copy? I assume its too late now for me to buy one

ZA

[SkyHawk-N]

I have just arranged for another copy to be brought for you. You know you've 'made it' when you appear in the EDP! :}

ZA can you PM me your email address. I have just received a poor scan of the pages but you look like you feature prominently on them.

[Legalapproach]

Hey Zulu Alpha, you made the centre pages of today's EDP Alongside you is a picture of James 'Jimmy' Stewart .....and one of me!
SkyHawk-N - you forget to mention that it is a picture of you leaning on my Cub.
Anyway, I made the front page of the EDP on Thursday!!:E :E

[Whirlygig]

I was featured in an article in The Newbury Weekly News, does that count?

Anyway SkyHawk-N, thanks to you and your wife for organising the day from myself and The Last Black Shed.

Cheers

Whirls

[SkyHawk-N]

SkyHawk-N - you forget to mention that it is a picture of you leaning on my Cub.
Anyway, I made the front page of the EDP on Thursday!!:E :E

Errr...I wasn't going to say anything but I wasn't leaning on your Cub, I was trying to stop it blow away in the wind!!!.....seriously! :eek:

Did you notice you had two 'chocks' instead of the one? We had to delay the photoshoot to run and find another tyre!

You weren't the 'veteran carer bully' mentioned on Thursdays front page? :suspect:

[SkyHawk-N]

I was featured in an article in The Newbury Weekly News, does that count?
Anyway SkyHawk-N, thanks to you and your wife for organising the day from myself and The Last Black Shed.
Cheers
Whirls
Glad you and TLBS enjoyed yourselves and it was nice to meet you both. We'll have to get more of that type of event going in the summer.
BTW, Newbury Weekly News? hardly the EDP :}

[Legalapproach]

You weren't the 'veteran carer bully' mentioned on Thursdays front page?

"Mr Legal Approach, on behalf of the prosecution told the jury.....".

Front page of the EDP, page 20 of The Times - says it all really!:{