NPPL 'types/differences' signing off?

[noblues]

I've been asked to sign off the differences for an NPPL holder who obtained his licence on Self Launching Motor Gliders.

He asked if I would fly with him in an SEP and sign off the differences.

Can I do this as an FI (I'm not an examiner), I thought this would require a Skills Test and a fresh Type in his licence?

[Whopity]

There is clearly confusion on this subject. This is downloaded from the NPLG Website:
SECTION 2. CROSS-CREDITING LICENCES AND RATINGS TO NPPL (SEP)
2.1 Pilots with valid licences and ratings
NPPL (SLMG) or UK PPL (A) SLMG to NPPL (SEP)
The holder of a NPPL (SLMG) or UK PPL (A) SLMG who wishes to obtain a NPPL (SEP) shall:
a. Produce the NPPL (SLMG) or UK PPL (A) SLMG;
b. Produce log book evidence of having satisfactorily completed SEP differences training with a SEP FI in a simple single-engine piston aeroplane;
c Hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or JAR-FCL Class 1 or 2 medical certificate.That is where your student gets his idea from regarding differences training.
Now read Schedule 8

Section 3 – National Private Pilot’s Licence (Aeroplanes)
National Private Pilot’s Licence (Aeroplanes)
Minimum age – 17 years
No maximum period of validity
Privileges and conditions:
(1) Subject to paragraphs (2), (3), (4), (5), (6) and (7) the holder of the licence shall be entitled to fly as pilot in command of any simple single engine aeroplane, microlight aeroplane or SLMG specified or otherwise falling within an aircraft rating included in the licence.
Differences training
(7) He shall not fly:
(a) as pilot in command of such a simple single engine aeroplane where:
(i) the aeroplane is fitted with a tricycle undercarriage;
(ii) the aeroplane is fitted with a tailwheel;
(iii) the engine is fitted with either a supercharger or turbo-charger;
(iv) the engine is fitted with a variable pitch propeller;
(v) the landing gear is retractable;
(vi) a cabin pressurisation system is fitted; or
(vii) the aeroplane has a maximum continuous cruising speed in excess of 140
knots indicated airspeed; unless appropriate differences training has been completed and recorded in his personal flying log book; or
(b) as pilot in command of such a microlight aeroplane where:
(i) the aeroplane has 3 axis controls and his previous training and experience
has only been in an aeroplane with flexwing controls; or
(ii) the aeroplane has flexwing controls and his previous training and
experience has only been in an aeroplane with 3 axis controls;
unless appropriate differences training has been completed and recorded in his
personal flying logbook.
There is no mention of SSEA under Differences Training!
It is necessary to have an SSEA Aircraft Rating added to the licence.
Article 28 says:
(2) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the holder of a pilot's licence to which this article applies shall not be entitled to exercise the privileges of an aircraft rating contained in the licence on a flight unless the licence bears a valid certificate of test or a valid certificate of experience in respect of the rating, which certificate shall in either case be appropriate to the functions he is to perform on that flight in accordance with Section 1 of Part C of Schedule 8 and shall otherwise comply with that Section.AIC 3/2004 says:
1.3 Sect on 3 of Part A of Schedule 8 of the Order states that the SSEA rating included in a NPPL may be validated by means of a continuous experience process or by means of a Skill Test. The Order does not stipulate a validity penod for the Skill Test so the CAA sets out below a clarification of its policy:
1.3.1 For the SSEA rating to be valid so that a pilot is entitled to exercise it's privileges on a flight, the licence holder must either:

(a) Have completed 6 hours flight time in the 12 month period preceding the flight including not less than 4 hours as pilot in command and have completed an instructional flight of at least 1 hour In the preceding 24 months; OR

(b) have undertaken and passed a Skill Test with an Authorised Examiner Whin the previous 12 months. The Examiner conducting the test will sign the Certificate of Revalidation Page of the NPPL and enter the date of the test but no explry date will be shown in view of the fact that validation may, in the future be maintained via the experience routeFrom the above I can only deduce that you must do a Skill Test and aply to have the SSEA added to the NPPL. Without the test the rating could never be valid!

[BEagle]

Whopity, the NPLG site is correct - don't confuse the issue with ponderous ANO references. A Skill Test is not required.

noblues - your NPPL/SLMG pilot completes differences training with a FI on SSEA aircraft and sends the assoicated paperwork plus cheque off to NPLG Ltd. They check it and forward it to the CAA, who add the SSEA Rating and send it back to the pilot.

This is NOT the same process as completing differences training for tailwheel etc conversions, so the FI cannot just 'sign off' the pilot and allow him to fly - he has to wait until his licence includes the SSEA Rating.

[noblues]

Thanks Whopity ...

Since leaving my orginal post I have trawled through Lasors and http://www.nppl.uk.com/X%20Credit%20Doc/NPPL%20XC%20REV%2006.pdf ... as you say its as clear as mud, and full of conflicts ..

I rang AOPA this morning (who regulate the NPPL) ... the long and short of it seems to be that myslef as an FI (but not an examiner) can do it as a 'differences' type logbook sign off.

The student must then send a NPPL application form off to AOPA at Turweston asking for a new 'type validation' to SEP and pay £67 ... AOPA then authorise it and get the CAA to send out a new licence 'SEP class type' page ...

How on earth has the licencing system got into this state of affairs in the UK ... we are running almost three different types of licence with NPPL/JAR PPL and microlight licences ....

(Ironically if this chap had a JAP PPL issued with SLMG and wanted SEP then he would have to do a skills test .. ?????????). :ugh:

[BEagle]

NPPL REV07 will use another description for the required training - probably 'conversion training' - in order to avoid confusion with 'Diffferences training'.

The draft ANO revision simplifying and clarifying NPPL requirements is about to be sent out for consultation; noblues, your pilot will find himself pleasantly surprised at the resulting revalidation requirements, if all goes as the NPPL Policy and Steering Committee has endorsed.

History:

UK PPL was forced into JAR-FCL form against industry's wishes.
Industry then requested a simpler alternative - the NPPL.
NPPL requirements were incorrectly formulated in the ANO.
NPPL P&SC have now agreed changes to rsolve the errors.
Simplified NPPL regulations should become law next year.

BUT,

Legacy UK PPLs still exist
Legacy Microlight and SLMG PPLs still exist
JAR-FCL PPLs exist
NPPLs exist

All the above have their own revalidation and renewal requirements.

[noblues]

Thanks BEagle ...

About time too!

Once upon a time their was a thing called a CAA PPL and nothing else .... oh how I reminisce!

[Whopity]

Having got the SSEA issued, how long does it remain valid? i.e if Blogs doesn't use it for 11 months how would you know if its valid? There is no Cof E or T!

[BEagle]

Whopity, just go and ask your boss......

[C42]

I passed my NPPL (M) in April this year (flying my Icarus C42) since then i have clocked up over 100 hours in it and even flown to austria and spent 2 days flying up and down the Alps.

i have ordered a TL Sting VLA (Ultralight) but to fly this i need to do the JAR or NPPL (SEP)

i did an hour in a Warrior last week and the instructor said he would quite hapilly send me off on my own.

is there an easy way to get my NPPL (SEP) without doing a load more exams and do loads more hours in a spam can. the C42 is a much more dificult plane to fly than a warrior (my partner in the C42 has a JAR licence but did more hours on his conversion from a warrior to the C42 than it took me to go solo!)

is it posible to talk to the CAA so they can take individual cases on merit?

Dave Stephens

[BEagle]

C42 -

Firstly, the SSEA Rating conversion requirements are 'generic' and do not reflect any one individual's previous flying experience, or the specific aeroplane they intend to fly in the future. A SSEA Class Rating will legally entitle you to fly any SSEA falling within the legal definition. Do NOT pester the CAA; just check with NPLG if you feel you need to check anything further.

That said, your conversion training requirements are not too demanding; this is all you need to do:

"NPPL(Microlight) or UK PPL (Microlight) to NPPL (SSEA)

The holder of a valid NPPL with Microlight Class Rating or UK PPL (M) licence without restrictions who wishes to obtain a SSEA Class Rating shall:

a. Produce the NPPL or UK PPL (M);

b. Produce logbook evidence of currency on Microlight aircraft;

In other words, show proof that you have a valid NPPL with Microlight Class Rating

c. Carry out such flying training on single-engine piston aeroplanes as is judged necessary by the authorised instructor giving the training to achieve the required standard to take the NPPL NST and GST in a SSEA. This training must include:

(1) Not less than 1 hour of dual instrument appreciation;

(2) 2 hours stall awareness/spin avoidance training;

(3) Differences training for Microlight pilots whose Microlight flying has been solely on flexwing aircraft;

(4) Not less than the 32 hours required minimum total flight time for the NPPL SSEA Class Rating, which may be a combination of both Microlight and SSEA flying.

In your case, (3) and (4) don't apply as you have already achieved a fair amount of flying in 3-axis Microlights

d. Pass the JAR-FCL PPL (A) theoretical examination in Aircraft (General) and Principles of Flight;

e. Hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or JAR-FCL Class 1 or 2 medical certificate;

f. Pass the NPPL NST and GST in a SSEA."

So that's:

- Not less than 3 hours training as in c (1)-(2) above.
- Any further training your FI might recommend.
- Pass 1 exam.
- Get the appropriate Medical Declaration.
- Pass the Skill Tests in a SSEA.
- Fill out application form and send it off (with cheque) to NPLG Ltd.
- Wait for upgraded NPPL to arrive.

[C42]

BEagle

Many thanks for the reply, sorry to be so late in replying (PC problem)

i have taken the plunge and done my medical, air law, met and principles of flight (for my JAA Licence)

so im well on the way!

Cheers

Dave