GB Airways - Time to Captain

[Projecting GAP]

Trying to find out the average time to Captain after joining GB airways as a F/O for now and the next couple of years. Miltary fast jet background for my sins. Any other recent T & C info would be welcome as I've seen unfavourable info so far! Thanks.

[Shaftspeare]

From recent experience, I would say you stand a good chance of a fast command with your 'particular' background. Recently ex-RAF have received promotion to Captain within 6 months of joining the company.
It will all depend on the effects of the current course of action being steered by the management and how many pilots are really lost through being unprepared to tolerate the relentless degradation to their lifestyles. I have been at GB a while now and it is fair to say it has changed beyond all recognition in the past few years and in no way for the better in any respect. At GB it used to be all about the lifestyle, with middle of the road remuneration as the acceptable compromise. Now we remain lower league in terms of pay and bottom of the table in regards to lifestyle and Terms & Conditions:

Quite possibly the worst rostering in the business with rosters being unsympathetically and inflexibly produced.
Obscure split duties of dubious legality
Repetitive deep night flights
Very unsociable hours (lates finishing at 0300L, earlies starting 0430L usually just after a late!!)
Bussed around the country in a van (LHR, EMA and BRS) after a duty, charter style but without the charter money or conditions.
14 1/2hr there and back duty days to remote and exotic Red Sea destinations (think UN mine clearing operations in AQJ!)
Food unfit for human consumption
Lowest pay of any UK Airbus operator (don’t take that much notice of the gross figures, you will receive virtually no allowances & so after tax will find yourself coming up short compared to colleagues in other airlines doing virtually the same job only with more sensible working hours)
Profit related bonus a thing of the past
Uncertain future, BA franchise in question, competition with easyJet on all but our most extreme routes.
The taking on of contract F/O’s this year to bridge crewing gaps that should have been foreseen and planned in advance for.
Damp leasing Excel 737 all next summer (effect on commands, product delivery?)
Enforced move to Jubilee House as of March next year for flight deck, with parking in Z Overflow adding an extra hour a day for no compensation. You will now find yourself either waiting to go to work or waiting to return to your car in the pouring rain and wind at 0300.I think many in GB fall into the category of either being very low Houred/Cadet/First jet job types who are rightly pleased to be gaining valuable experience on an excellent aircraft type whilst building hours towards some future career plan outside of GB. Or, contrastingly, people with experience from elsewhere who are hoping to move swiftly across into the LH Seat and rack up jet command time before moving on. If GB is not careful it could quickly become a training airline as many begin to view a career here as simply untenable.

Based on the above, and no doubt many other facets of life at GB that I have probably neglected to mention here, my only advice during these current times of buoyant pilot employment prospects would be to join anyone of the other larger, better paying, better treating outfits that also have the added benefit of some degree of job security in a volatile industry. Remember GB is very much one family’s private train set to do with as it pleases.

With seemingly all ties to BA now being systematically cut (with both engineering and ground handling being outsourced to other companies as of next week), the vague hope of maybe someday being absorbed are now fading fast - despite the best wishes of the piloting fraternity at BA who of course would love nothing more than to see the girls and boys of GB amalgamated into their seniority list!
So as not to ignore the positive aspects it must stated that the Staff Travel Benefits are excellent. Whether or not it would be sensible to join an airline and base a serious career decision upon them is something you must ask yourself......


I hope this information is of some help to you, good luck with your decision!

[beauport potato man]

interesting post shaftspeare.... well on the mark too.

I notice we're also ditching CIRRUS and NUBRIEF - further distancing ourselves from BA?

WW was rumoured to have said we wouldn't be a franchise operator next year, KH has said there are many changes ahead.....

Gonna be an interesting time round the Beehive over the next 18-24 months!

(ps would write more but still knackered from my red sea there and back!!)

BPM

[Projecting GAP]

Guys - that's very good info - although not the best of news on the GB front! Any plans by the management to improve some of those concerns (especially the roster) or is that wishful thinking? Allowances I didn't really consider - what is the average monthly pay of a F/O? I'm obviously looking at other A320 operators and GB was towards the top!

[seymour fanny]

Time to command used to be approx 2 to 3 years but that could possibly all change from now on. As mentioned the wet lease will delay promotions as will the over 60s now being allowed to stay on.
There is only one pilot thats been promoted in 6 months and he had over K6 hours and was a Captain in his previous airline. He was also prepared to go to MAN.

On the flip side you maybe lucky as people are likely to leave in droves next year. Keep your nose clean and don't fall foul of Jekyll and Hyde (TG & DW) and the rest of the corrupt incestuous training dept and you should be OK.

As Shaftspeare said there are much better and more secure options out there than GB.

[phantom menace]

Keep your nose clean and don't fall foul of Jekyll and Hyde (TG & DW) and the rest of the corrupt incestuous training dept and you should be OK.:=

Interesting comment, care to expand it a little.

[Oxidant]

Both Shaftspeare & SF have hit the nail on the head.
What was once one of the best places in aviation is now the worst.
Since Jonny Vegas, BG,BW,TG & DW (& others) have risen to power the airline has sunk with equal rapidity.
I would disagree with Shaftspeare on the staff travel front though. If you are single then it is OK (i.e the BA side)
However as a Capt with kids you find that your "Annual free firm" is useless as you can never be sure of;
1. Getting on the outbound &
2. Even if you do, they will not confirm you will get on the return! :ugh:

[Miss Inform]

"Keep your nose clean and don't fall foul of Jekyll and Hyde (TG & DW) and the rest of the corrupt incestuous training dept and you should be OK."
That sounds a bit worrying :(
Can you give any examples?

[Bootylicious]

Pretty good post Shaftspeare...but don't et all huffy about the move to JH just yet.....Balpa are on the case, and if we do move, we'll definitely get some good compensation!!

Does sound like a very down post tho, so I'll put in some good points:
1)Fantastic crew. Obviously the odd tw*t, which makes for a very long day, but every airline has those. The crew are good fun, very sociable, and can make a long day go very quickly.
2)Good route structure. As we fly to some of the most challenging airfields, it's noted highly by other airlines when you eventually apply elsewhere. Makes a ncie change as well to to somewhere chellenging instead of the normal ILS approach...
3)Obscure split duties......yes, there is ONE. How often do you get it? Not that often I'm sure.
4)As for the rosters, once JH is sorted I understand it's next on Balpa's hit list. Won't be long, I'm sure, till we have a fixed roster pattern....

Basically, it has it's bad points, but then so does EVERY airline. It's a fun place to work, with 99% decent crew, friendly staff, and despit moaning about early starts I'm having a great time.

Average monthly salary?? Can be as low as £2800 in the winter when not working much, and as high as £3600 in the summer.

[santan17]

Great post Shaftspeare, just to add my two cents,

Bootylicious, I think your claim of taking home £3600 is a bit misleading, I have no doubt you did, but that will be with 3 overtime payments, something you may or may not want to do when you are rostered 90hrs a month during the summer. It is also well worth remembering that O/T payments are the exception rather than the rule at GB. The only reason there was so much this summer is because of the above mentioned crewing issues. As a year one F/O I took home a steady £2800 a month without contributing to my pension, so £2600ish is a realistic figure after pension contributions.

For info a year one captain takes circa £3800 after pension contributions.

On a seperate note I think your point 2 only serves to justify what Shaftspeare was saying about GB becoming a training airline.


Santan.

[Major Cleve Saville]

If you are considering a 'career' with GB you shoud bear the following in mind:

It was once a proftable airline: Not any more.
It did well out of the BA Franchise: Not any more. Those once profitable routes now have intense low cost competition. And the BA franchise means GB are hamstrung when it comes to selecting new destinations. If it looks profitable BA will do it themselves.
The average sector length was 2 1/2 hours: Not any more.We are flying longer and further for less revenue.
Pay is the average of comparable airline, note Average but the working conditions were considerably better: Not any more.
Until 2 1/2 years ago there was at least some effort to treat people as human: Not any more, the worst aspects of comparable airlines lifestyles are now inflicted on the staff the rationale being this is what airline XYZ does so you have to do the same.

There is no chance of rostering/lifestyle issues improving in the near future as there has been a deliberate policy of deterioration in lifestyle over the last few years parralleling the deterioration in the companies financial position.

The flight ops managers are just looking after themselves now waiting for the inevitable. I have seen this scenario at several previous airlines just prior to the insolvencies.

It is difficult to see how this position can be reversed. The BA franchise is killing GB yet neither the owners or any of the ex-BA lackeys that have inflicted the damage have had the cojones to go it alone once again as GB or Gibraltar Airways. I suspect the new(ish) MD would like to but is told that the future is with the BA Franchise. In any case it is probably too late as easyJet would simply dump low fares on to any routes GB might try to compete on.

I would not consider a career here now. If you wish to have a career and start to acrue seniority definately look elsewhere. I know I am and I have been here a long time.

[fiftyfour]

The above posts are very accurate. Five years ago GB was first choice for most pilots who wanted short haul. Not any longer.

[Jet A1]

It is interesting that there are plenty wingeing here but the fact that no-one is leaving or working their notice at this time there are a few eternal moaners at GB....

And looking around elsewhere doesn't mean people are leaving....

[heebeegb]

Spot on!!!! If it's that bad, there's always the door. It amazes me that those who've been here 5 minutes are the first to moan.

[Wigster]

Jet A1 and heebeegb give me a break, wake up and smell the goldblend...people are actively looking around and l think there will be a few departing before next March to the land of Orange!!!!!!:=

[phantom menace]

"Any other recent T & C info would be welcome as I've seen unfavourable info so far"
Projecting GAP:
As you started the thread perhaps a comment from you maybe prudent, or do I detect a management input. ;)

[Projecting GAP]

PM,

It's going to be a while before I reach management - haven't started in the airlines yet! Thread so far has had some really good info - just not what I expected. I have a clean slate and want to make a balanced decision when joining a company - I know it's not all rosy but it's rosier than the military at the moment!

Anyway to everyone who has put input - thanks very much, it really does help for guys like me (and others) - if there is more to add to the thread then all info is good info! Cheers.

PGAP.

[Maz11]

Good God you lot don't half whinge. I have to agree with what was said a couple of posts ago, If its that bad then you know where the door is.

Having been at GB a couple of years i'd say its a fantastic place to work, or atleast it is up North, (maybe thats where you're all going wrong).

Having worked for a well known charter outfit before making the leap (or rather being pushed), let me tell you, charter Ts+Cs really are not that good. If people want to make the leap over to the land of Orange then good for them, but i've got a quite a few mates over there who say its the worst move they ever made. So the pay is better, and you get a stable roster pattern, but god do they get bored of 6 Belfasts in a day, 4 days on the trot.

People whine about the move to Jubilee house, and losing the cushy parking, but to be brutally honest that was bound to happen sooner or later as the company expanded. We have to take the bus in MAN, (as most outfits do at most airports in the UK), and yeah so it can be pretty packed when the morning shift is clocking on, but it really isn't that bad. Much better in my opinion than getting to the company car park with 5 minutes to spare before report and finding out there aren't any parking spaces left.

Also my opinion on a few of Shaftspeares remarks,

14 1/2hr there and back duty days to remote and exotic Red Sea destinations (think UN mine clearing operations in AQJ!)

Yes its mine clearing not laying and people want to go there. And a 14 1/2 hour duty, well thats nearly 20% of your work for the month done in one day, (ok 2).

Damp leasing Excel 737 all next summer (effect on commands, product delivery?)

So yes it may have an effect on commands but atleast we're still trying to expand. Or would it have been better for us to keep OA on for the next 6 years, (as thats what the leasing company was offering) and have to keep paying more and more for the upkeep of said a/c. The other option was to lose an aircraft until the new 21 arrives and have to effectively downsize the operation, when the key to making money is expansion, (just look at Easy for one).

Food unfit for human consumption

As it is at most outfits these days. Silver service for the F/D is a thing of the past, and again believe me its better than some, and atleast we get something.

Profit related bonus a thing of the past

Surely the answer is in that sentence, if we don't make a profit then you don't get a bonus, not really that difficult to comprehend. And hence why the company is trying to cut costs on other fronts to keep us in the black.

Very unsociable hours (lates finishing at 0300L, earlies starting 0430L usually just after a late!!)

Welcome to land of charters, which is effectively what we'll be if BA cut us loose. And if you think thats bad, well try going to work at 7 in the evening, doing two 5 hour sectors and getting back in your car at 8 the following morning, because thats what most charter outfits do.


Anyway, enough of a rant, as i said before, if you don't like it here then you know where the door is. At the end of the day GB is a company, and as such to survive has to make money. Contrary to many people's belief they aren't there to pay us and let us do what we want.

Seymour, yes only one got command in 6 months, but another wasn't far behind, 7 or 8 months i think, and its not that they were prepared to come to MAN, they were both based here as F/Os and still want to be. Must be the cushy number we have up here. Personally, i've worked my nuts off over the summer which is pretty obvious by my hours for the year, and i'm quite enjoying only working 5 days in Nov and 9 in Dec, give me the long flights anyday.

Don't get me wrong, there are many things which I would like improving in the T+Cs within the company, and i would never begrudge anyone who doesn't like it here and wants to move on, each to their own, but just remember, every company has its good and bad points.

Just one final thought for those thinking of moving on to pastures new,

THE GRASS IS ALWAYS GREENER

[Pirsig]

Maz11, I find this attitude of accept things the way they are, do as your told else there's the door please leave very odd. Surely there is scope to discuss conditions within the work place without the somewhat military attitude of this is how it is now just get on with it?

You quite clearly state that you are in a somewhat different position to the majority of GB's flight deck in that you are based at Manchester. For those that don't know this is a very small base, with only 1 airframe and very limited route structure and consequently very pleasant working conditions - only 2 real check in times, 9-11 days flying a month and little chance of getting called off standby. As such I'm not convinced that you have any real frame of reference to comment on the grievances of the pilots living and operating 'down south'. As for Belfast 6 times a day 4 days in a row, that does seem dull, but so does constant rotations of MAN-TFS-MAN, MAN-PFO-MAN, but each to their own I suppose...

If Jubilee House is such a none event, and it absolutely isn't, then why are BALPA taking an indicative vote as to whether the workforce has the stomach for industrial action over the move?
I've been here over four years and have never found myself unable to park in the Bee Hive car park, especially since the office staff were asked to park in the overflow across the road, so I don't really understand your point here, but being MAN based this is the type of thing you wouldn't actually know.

As for the Red Sea Charters there's not much to say, other than that (Sharm & HRG aside), they are charters, and I joined a Scheduled BA Franchise airline.

Concerning 737 lease, I was told (from the horses mouth in flight ops), that the real reason behind the damp lease was that there is insufficient work next winter for another airframe so the most cost effective solution was to lease and return after the summer surge. This doesn't quite conform to your rather optimistic constant expansion ideal, nor is it exactly representative of the easyJet business model!

The food is worse elsewhere, so it’s absolutely fine and we shouldn't attempt to improve things. Again that strange 'just accept it' attitude. It's also not actually true if you compare to other operators such as BA, Virgin, Thomson, Thomas Cook etc (remember we are still a BA franchise!)

As you quite rightly point out, profit related pay is intrinsically linked to a company’s profit. No profit, no bonus. More importantly however, a company consistently failing to make a profit leads where......not really that difficult to comprehend.

No need to welcome me to the Wonderful World of Charter, I've been there all summer! You make the helpful suggestion of trying going to work at 7pm, flying two sectors through the night, before returning home. Well I have (let's say for example a nice pleasant little run of night IBZ, night PFO, night IBZ(2110 checkin!), at least twice in the past four months. Again, I can't help but notice that you don't do this type of flying up in MAN so wouldn't have been exposed to these joys.

I think opening your post with the statement that people are whinging is neither helpful nor constructive towards what everyone wants - which is the continued success of GB along with best working conditions for its employees.

People who join from other outfits stating 'well things were considerably worse as a cruise relief pilot for International Afghan Air Routes', and so by direct comparison GB is absolutely fantastic, just confuse the issues at hand.

There is a need to realistically except the changes that have occurred in our industry, but no requirement to have an automatic reduction in lifestyle to match the worse in the business!

[Man Flex]

How many more years do you think the company will operate if they continue to make a financial loss? When you've cut as many costs as you possibly can and are unable to increase revenue by increasing pricing then where do you go?

Unlike other airlines, GB's future is not its own. It is constrained by the BA franchise and what KH would like to do as part of his profit improvement plan is not in-line with what BA will allow.

As another poster has already stated, is it all not so "inevitable"?

[Seniorbob]

Wow some heated replies.
The original thread seems to have been lost along the way and turned into a debate about this companies working conditions.
It always astounds me that when people state what they believe to be fact, then find themselves accuse of being whiners by those that hold different views and in some cases will not be affected by what are considered genuine facts.
Why in this industry does everyone have to come down to the lowest T’s& G’s? If we all stuck together maybe life could get a little better all round.:ok:

[Maz11]

Pirsig, i am not at all saying that we should accept things as they are or leave the company at all. And i also agree that being based in MAN does indeed shelter us from some of the concerns that you guys have.

Firstly i'm not saying that the proposed move to Jubilee house is a non-event, far from it, i know it will effect you guys and girls enormously. However you can't disaggree that the hive is overcrowded, and as such something needs to be done about it. In my opinion a move for the flight/cabin crew to a new location, (ie. Jubilee house), closer to the a/c is more sensible than sticking the commercial and finance people there.

No your right, I haven't had much experience working out of LGW, and thats something i have brought up on more than one occasion, (because we do feel rather isolated), however on the rare occasion i have been there, trying to get through security in one of the transits has been a nightmare. Surely being based somewhere that you've already had to go airside to get into,(again ie. Jubilee House), therefore cutting that hassle out from the journey to the aircraft has to be an impovement. Don't get me wrong, having the crew report at the Beehive is a fantasic perk and the parking just makes that better, but the truth is, it can't go on forever. Atleast if you move soon you'll get a decent office, and not some hole which is still a 10 minute bus ride from security.

"and I joined a Scheduled BA Franchise airline"

Yes that's true but with the current atmosphere between us and BA, and the rumours that abound that situation, are we going to be for much longer? If we go it alone then what do you think we'll be, and i get the feeling thats why Connect, (shortly to be defunct), was brought into MAN and the other outstations. BOB is what we'll do if we take the leap as GB.

You talk about your nice little run of IBZ, PFO, IBZ, i agree that can't be too nice, however, we don't have any short flights like IBZ's up here and many many times in the past 18 months have I had night TFS, night TFS, night TFS, or maybe PFO, night TFS, night PFO. Or even the really late PFO, getting back at 5.30 in the morning, twice a month. So to say we don't do that sort of flying isn't exactly fair.

As you quite rightly point out, profit related pay is intrinsically linked to a company’s profit. No profit, no bonus. More importantly however, a company consistently failing to make a profit leads where......not really that difficult to comprehend.

Your dead right, however, correct me if i'm wrong, were we not making a profit up until a few years ago. And it doesn't help when your consistantly paying over the odds for a Franchise agreement that rarely keeps up its end of the the bargain. Hence the shift in a/c loading recently, and moving to a cheaper, (and in many cases better, or atleast on the spares front), engineering provider. I'm sure most people would see that as progress. Oh and consistently losing money doesn't necassarily mean one thing, just look at a certain charter company who were really in the proverbial pooh a couple of years ago. (Different circumstances i know but just goes to prove you never really know what can happen, they all thought there was one outcome for that particular company.)

People who join from other outfits stating 'well things were considerably worse as a cruise relief pilot for International Afghan Air Routes', and so by direct comparison GB is absolutely fantastic, just confuse the issues at hand.

Very true, if i was comparing GB to being a cruise relief pilot for International Afghan Air Routes, which i'm not, (do they even exist, or is it a VA you're the CEO of?). I agree for a long time GB was the best UK shorthaul airline to work for, however times change and as a result of that we have to loose some of those privileges we have to keep the company going. I'm not saying we should roll over and do whatever the company wants with no recompence, far from it, conditions have to be protected, (to a reasonable extent), but would it really be better if we carried on, without anything being done until one day when suddenly, the Godfathers go, we've run out of money, and we're cutting our losses and closing the airline. Personally, i'd rather do something about it sooner rather than later.

I do agree with you completely that there is a need to discuss conditions within the work place, and I am in no way taking a military attitude and saying we should do whatever the company wants us to. T+C's are there for a reason, but they have to be protected to a reasonable extent. But just remember that if you push it too hard, then there may not be a companies T+C's there for you to protect. Give and Take is the answer, not fighting to the death... That only results in one thing, Death, and thats not what anyone wants.

I'm totally commited to GB and i'm not (actively or not), looking to move anywhere else. We have the opportunity to be a great independent carrier, (if thats what happens), but in my opinion bitching about who you work for does nothing to help their cause. GB has a fantastic bunch of people working within its ranks, and i agree with what has been said before, 99.9% of the crew you work with will be a great laugh and will make a long day pass like its been a AGP, as it has today, (not an AGP, far from it infact).

Also I would completely support you in a vote about JH, (depending on the terms being offered). However as I've said before, in situations such as this, all it takes is a bit of give and take from both sides to come out with an amicable agreement, that suits the companies needs to cut costs and the workforces need to protect their conditions.

Oh and Shaftspeare, you say,

the vague hope of maybe someday being absorbed are now fading fast - despite the best wishes of the piloting fraternity at BA who of course would love nothing more than to see the girls and boys of GB amalgamated into their seniority list!

I think you might find quite a bit of opposition to that in mainline, as most wouldn't want their chance of command/74/777 being taken away from them by GB flightdeck. If they bought us then i think you'd find we'd be at the bottom of the seniority list, with a massive number of 320 rated pilots ahead of us, (you're looking at 12 years to command i believe).

I hope nobody will take this as an attack on their viewpoint or position on many of these issues. I'm simply putting across my point of view, having been through the situation of compulsary redundancy in a previous company, (which isn't pleasant). After all it is Pprune, and we're free to say what we want.

In my opinion GB is a great company, and yes its having its troubles, but atleast its actively trying to sort them out rather than sitting back and let the 'inevitable happen'.


Sorry for the really long post!!

[qualitycontrol]

Will only make two points with reference to Maz's posts, it would appear that my peers are more than up to the task of communicating the main other points to the masses..........

Firstly with regards to Beehive overcrowding - there has never been a problem, outwith Monday to Friday 9-5 report times, finding a space to leave your car - the Beehive parking is far "closer" to the a/c than any of the BAA alternatives, worst case from parking your car you will be at the a/c STD-30, even with early morning crowding at Queens Gate - will be far more difficult to get an entire crew to 113 at 0500 from JH..........

I agree it would be quite frankly ludicrous to put "Commercial and Financial People" in Jubilee house - but only because the positions that they fill can be fulfilled in any location whatsoever, be it downtown Crawley or Istanbul. If JH is the cheapest real estate that the company can find in the area then I suggest each and every reader buys property in either Crawley or Horley.

Secondly, this "promised land" of BA buying us out and amalgamating us into their seniority system is complete and utter nonsense. A straw poll of every BA pilot on Prune just now would without a shadow of a doubt indicate that each and every BA mainline pilot will never let it happen - there’s more chance of Concorde flying again than GB Pilots being welcomed into the fold.

If Mr Walsh and his Board at BA decree that the franchise shall be rescinded sooner than the allotted time then I fear GB Airways as it stands shall last no longer than the pre-bookings that BA allow us to honour.

Just as an end note - the notion that we could "become a great independant carrier" is so reliant on so many variables - primarily BA allowing us and EJ/RYR not crushing us I feel it is not so much clutching at straws, more hoping for a miracle.

[Major Cleve Saville]

qualitycontrol: well said.

Maz11: Remember this is a once great airline going down the pan. Every aspect of the company has deteriorated rapidly in the last couple of years. Some of us remember the early pre-franchise days. Life was difficult commercially (but great fun) with just Gibraltar, Tangiers, Funchal and Casablanca as our destinations. If you think that going it alone as a scheduled carrier is the future, forget it. It was hard enough 1989-1994, and that was well before easyJet (which GB flew the first 2 aircraft for!!) and Ryanair came on the scene. GB did not make money until the Franchise came along. No Franchise........Maz11 Please tell us what your plan is for expansion, and how you see the next 5 years for GB.

[Oxidant]

“Quote heebeegb”
"Spot on!!!! If it's that bad, there's always the door. It amazes me that those who've been here 5 minutes are the first to moan."

Think you will find that the more factual comments of this post are from those of us who have been here for 10+ years!

“Quote JetA1”
"It is interesting that there are plenty wingeing here but the fact that no-one is leaving or working their notice at this time there are a few eternal moaners at GB...."

Oh, really, where have you been lately? Or have you missed the no. of trainers, capts & F/Os who have gone or in the process!?


“Quote Maz11”
"Good God you lot don't half whinge. I have to agree with what was said a couple of posts ago, If its that bad then you know where the door is."

Well, nice to see you have retracted your original drivel!

As "The Major" said, we have watched the ship start to go down. Management come & go with monotonous regularity (should give you some idea of their competence) Yet we are all here for the long haul (or were!) We have a vested interest in the success of the outfit & really want it to florish.
Yet we have seen time after time, stupid, ill thought out, knee jerk plans which have made things worse rather than better!
(How about the LGW, OPO (LIS) LGW, where the OPO business pax where not informed of the "LIS" bit:ugh: So now TAP has that premium traffic instead. Ditto the Canaries round robins (pax again unaware) Need I go on?)

Time to vote with ones' feet, well, yes. TTFN.:sad:

[Seniorbob]

Projecting Gap, what do you think of it so far:ugh: :ugh: :confused:

[phantom menace]

R3Hard.
"Personally i think that all of you who obviously work for GB should cherish your jobs and not discuss these issues in public, this, in my opinion, is not what PPRUNE is for.
Get on to your union site/private forum (if you have one) as threads like this serve only to undermine your current positions - whoever you are"

I think you'll find a question was asked....or did you not bother to read the entire thread....opinions expressed are of a personal nature , just like yours. :ok:

[qualitycontrol]

R3Hard,

Noone likes to air dirty laundry in public, however, due to the rather delicate nature of some of the topics that have arisen and the fact that GB is still a very small company where outspoken opinions are quickly reigned in by the powers that be, sometimes the Balpa forum is not an ideal facility to vent ones spleen.

The responses here illustrate the sad fact that GB Airways is not the happy ship it once was. This alone shows to me that almost every contributor to this topic who is actually employed by GB do cherish their jobs - that's why such a passionate reaction has occured.

[Oxidant]

R3Hard,

Noone likes to air dirty laundry in public, however, due to the rather delicate nature of some of the topics that have arisen and the fact that GB is still a very small company where outspoken opinions are quickly reigned in by the powers that be, sometimes the Balpa forum is not an ideal facility to vent ones spleen.

The responses here illustrate the sad fact that GB Airways is not the happy ship it once was. This alone shows to me that almost every contributor to this topic who is actually employed by GB do cherish their jobs - that's why such a passionate reaction has occured.


Amen to that!:ok:

[Pirsig]

R3Hard,

I have plenty of faith in our union, especially since the membership percentage has increased so markedly since all these problems arose. I also don't know of a single member of flight deck not voting in favour of further action with regards this blundered Jubilee House motion.

No one expects Pprune of all places to fight our corner for us, it is however a safer outlet to state some of views felt than the company BALPA forum. Our company council seem to be doing an excellent job of progressing this matter and conveying our practically unified disagreement with what the management propose to do. (Jubilee house was a done deal when we were told about it and 'invited' to add our comments/give our approval!).

So with BALPA membership apparently now topping 90% I think we have (if we hadn't already), joined the union and are actively supporting its campaign for improved T's & C's. My ballot was ticked and off to BALPA HQ by return of post! Many of my colleagues are following this thread with interest with the general opinion that it makes for some of the most interesting reading on pprune in a very long time.

You do take an unusually close interest in the affairs of a company you don't work for.....

[ILS26L]

Left GB several months ago after over 3 years with them. I saw many changes, and just couldn't cope with them anymore. I understand that leaving ones job is a big step and can be stressful at times, but I must say that leaving the Beehive has been one of my best moves!

[memphisbelle]

Hey Seymour

Sounds like you're someone who has just failed a Command Course?

[seymour fanny]

Sorry to disappoint you memphis but No I don't and No I haven't.

[memphisbelle]

Seymour

Perhaps you recently failed a check? No, you don't dissapoint me, just frustrating to know that people like you go about character assassination to disguise your own failings. Maybe it's time to leave..............

[SAFERHANDS]

SEYMOUR FANNY

Being bitter and twisted, and all because of your own ability is not constructive those who enjoy what they are doing at GB. For the sake of others, practise what you preach and get a job somewhere else.

Each entry you make continues to show the problems you have with yourself. I, and others, continue to laugh at your comments, it all just shows how far aways from reality you really are.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Iva harden]

Oh dear Seyless fanny....looks like you have put your hoof in it big time.....me thinks your days are numbered...off you go to orange land!!.......being bitter and twisted aint going to help......:}

[Pizzaro]

Been offered an iterview with GB as an Fo, what are the chances of getting a Man as a base ?

Regards P.

[beauport potato man]

Heebeegb is the one to ask.....

[RAFAT]

Hi BPM, hope you're well. Are you regretting leaving the 400 at the old firm?

[beauport potato man]

aaah hello Rafat. You really should be tucked up in bed in the rainy north rather than posting at 0246....

Missing the 400? No. The endless 6 sector days and monotony of SOU? No.
The dead mans shoes for jet command in JER? No. The below standard pay scales? No.

No, i guess then.

Any luck in the corporate sector?

[Pizzaro]

Heebeegb,
What are the chances of getting a Man base?

Cheers P.

[RAFAT]

BPM : You can't say fairer than that I guess.

I didn't think you'd know who I was! but no, not yet.:ok: