Now landing fees for everyone at Barton

[742-xx]

Just got a letter from Lancs Aero Club telling me that all members have to pay landing fees in the near future.

Up until now full members didn't have to pay.

A second letter tells me that from the end of November the free parking is finished as well.

Not good.

[maxdrypower]

I fly from Barton and have been in on the vicious rumours and circualtions of late . The reason for the landing fees and parking is that LAC are not doing well financially and are operating at a loss , they do not have the members to fulfill the obligations on landing fees and car park usage . Unless Im very much mistaken and I stand to be corrected (please someone from lac confirm or deny) that LAC will cease to be as of end of november . The airfield and other flying schools will remain but will all operate under the same rules paying same landing fees and car park fees as each other .
There is a lot going on with LAC at the moment qand Im sure someone will comeon and clarify the points made

[742-xx]

Benefits ? Good question.

THE most expensive flying club in the country and with the most expensive fuel.

Don't get me wrong, I fly from Barton and thoroughly enjoy the athmosphere but you can only push it so far. The prices in the clubhouse seem to go up on a regular basis.

[cessna l plate]

Landing fees is a particular sore subject with me. I don't mind paying to land, but in accordance with other things in life, I hate to be ripped off. Without wishing to appear unkind to the good folks at Barton, my personal impression of Barton is that they should pay to land there.

Any amount of money to plonk your plane down on a grass runway, built over a peat bog is tantamount to ripping off. KLM refused to land there for these reasons in the 1920's and for my money little has changed.

Barton is my local field, yet I learn at EGSY. Whenever I have gone to Barton for a price list, it is more exepnsive than other schools and if the runway gets waterlogged then wave bye-bye to aviation for a couple of days. Not my cup of tea at all.

[742-xx]

Yeah, not looking good.

The 'waterlogged issue' is very much an problem. I have lost count of the number of lessons I have lost because of this.

Looks like Liverpool here I come !!

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

That is sad news for the oldest aero club in Britain. Perhaps AVROTech should invite them back to Woodford. The Club House was still there the last time I looked. Fat chance of that, though. If that idiotic idea of listing aerodromes as "brown field" has been let in, then Barton Moss would, indeed, be a valuable building Plot.

That reminds me, my old LAC tie is starting to look rather tatty (in fact, I'm wearing it right now).

[742-xx]

I fly with LAC (for now!!)

Are Ravenair better organised, and do they operate out of Liverpool ?

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Just got a letter from Lancs Aero Club telling me that all members have to pay landing fees in the near future.

Up until now full members didn't have to pay.

A second letter tells me that from the end of November the free parking is finished as well.

Not good.

How come these letters? I'm a full flying memberof LAC and I've not received any. You sure they're from LAC?

SSD

[742-xx]

Signed by D.D himself. I got them at the start of this week.

Aparently they can no longer afford to subsidise members.

[tiggermoth]

Bleedin' great eh? Just got my PPL, and then I read this.
I should have taken up windsurfing at Sale water park.
Nah.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Signed by D.D himself. I got them at the start of this week.

Aparently they can no longer afford to subsidise members.


Hmmm. Any other LAC members got these letters? Nothing received at SSD towers yet.

SSD

[742-xx]

And I quote:
Important Notice To LAC Members. 27th October 2006.

Dear Members,
I regret to inform you that as from the 30th of November L.A.C. is no longer able to provide the membership with free landings free parking facilities. We have had to take this decision because we have depleted the 2006 subscriptions, which unfortunately are substantially less than we had originally budgeted for at the start of the financial year.
This shortfall is a direct consequence of reduced membership renewals. We are currently re assessing the clubs position in terms of what facilities will be provided in the next membership year 2007/8 and subscription renewal rates for the revised facilities.
These decisions have not been taken lightly, but based upon last years and this years financial results we cannot continue to subsidise membership facilities with the club funds.
When we have a firm proposal for our next membership year further notices will be posted,
Yours Sincerely
Paul G Kavanagh

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

they have alot more planes at liverpool than at Barton and the best thing about is you get to take off on a massive runway!.

...On which Easy Jets and Ryanairs take priority. Scouseport ATC are usually pretty good in getting us in and out, but if there's a queue of jet transports joining the ILS, or waiting at the hold, you will hang around while paying as if you were in the air.

Give me Barton any time. far better suited to GA unless you need all those big airport aids.

SSD

[Small Rodent Driver]

...On which Easy Jets and Ryanairs take priority. Scouseport ATC are usually pretty good in getting us in and out, but if there's a queue of jet transports joining the ILS, or waiting at the hold, you will hang around while paying as if you were in the air.
Give me Barton any time. far better suited to GA unless you need all those big airport aids.
SSD

Ravenair now circuiting up the road at Woodvale.

[Small Rodent Driver]

Hmmm. Any other LAC members got these letters? Nothing received at SSD towers yet.
SSD

A direct communication still awaited from LAC.

Still, who the hell am I to complain? Just a member who has chosen to complete an 80 mile round trip over the last 9 years or so in order to fly from Barton and pay without grimace my £240 p.a subs!

Sorry committee, a letter wouldnt have gone amiss. Doubt I will renew in 2007.:ugh:

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I think they ran out of stamps.....:rolleyes:

[mazzy1026]

Sorry - off topic but:

Ravenair now circuiting up the road at Woodvale
Really?? That's been an idea worth happening for years if you ask me!

Any details? Who can fly etc? Ravenair only? (I'm at LFS - flew there as a cadet).

Back to thread topic:

I visited Barton a few months back with Mariner9 - I was impressed with the place and nearly joined, mostly for the reasons shaggy mentioned above - at the time, it was money stopping me (and yes I was prepared to drive that extra mile to get there). I can sadly say that I will miss the opportunity to fly regularly from there :(

[jammydonut]

Havn't the club committee worked out why membership is dropping when benefits are withdrawn:(
It still looks like a ploy to decimate flying activities on the site by Peel:bored:

[Small Rodent Driver]

Any details? Who can fly etc? Ravenair only? :(

As far as I know it's only Ravenair who have an agreement.

[EGCC4284]

I have been a member of LAC since March 2000.

I have today taken up the new BOA Ltd landing contract scheme with BAOL Barton Aerodrome Operations Limited

It cost £55 and gives me free landings and free car parking at Barton until the end of March 2007.

If you fly a lot like myself, it works out cheaper than paying for each landing, each circuit and each exit.

As for LAC, sorry to say this but I think as a club, its days are numbered.

I just hope whatever happens in the future at Barton, flying continues.

Apart from the old politics stigma which is now no way as bad as it use to be, Barton is a brilliant place to fly from. ATC guys do a great job and its a real good place to build confidence. Can be very busy at the weekends in the summer with upto 8 in the circuit and plenty wanting to arrive and depart. Great place for helping you building your experience. Best thing to do is turn up, fly, have a brew and a butty, then go home. Great place and you meet loads of new friends.

Hope there are many many more flying days at Barton and would be very sorry to see the place close.

EGCC4284

[bigflyingrob]

For those of you who are a bit worried about fees and LAC there is a nice little strip at Ince. Good guys and long enough grass runways as long as you can land in the county you aim at!

[KingLear9000]

I Have been flying from Barton for about 10yrs and have got to know quite a few people in that time

so here are a few pointers for people to look at

1. LAC are in financial trouble due to the committee's decision on the Airfield utilisation fee i.e. what they worked out would save them money hasn't

2. LAC as a club will no longer be at Barton

3. LAC Flying School will certainly be staying under the command of M R

4. LAC Maintanance will most likely be staying too

5. Barton as an airfield will stay and if info is correct will be expanded with the likes of a Tarmac runway, better hangers and facilities

6. The old club feel has long since gone and if Peel continue the landing contract next year then I and many other members of LAC will pay that instead of a LAC Membership

[EGCC4284]

LAC Flying School will certainly be staying under the command of M R


Who is M R ???

[Pilot DAR]

Hello fellow fliers;

To Quote EGCC4284,

"It cost £55 and gives me free landings and free car parking at Barton until the end of March 2007."

Sounds like a great deal to me! Support those who enable your flights, with the funds that they need to run the airport.

I've never been to Barton, but I presume that those of you commenting on the costs to use the facilities, have found at least some favour with the airport, and what it offers.

As an alternative.... (and please don't mistake this for my being sarcastic, just another way of seeing things), do as I did in 1988: Buy 100 acres of suitable land (twice the cost of a C172), buy the chainsaw (much less than the cost of a C172), and spend weeks to clear the land, rent a bulldozer and buy a back hoe (half the cost of a C172), and spend weeks to pick rocks and dig ditches, buy the drain pipes and bury them, level the ground and plant grass seed, trench in runway light wires, and buy and hook them all up. Build the driveway, tiedowns and hanger.

Once it's all operational, buy the grass cutter and snow blower, maintain and fuel them, and spend 2 hours a week using which ever one the season calls for.

Spend all day helping each of the two (so far) pilots who crash their planes on your runway, pick up the pieces, all the while thanking your stars that nobody was hurt, and you're not getting sued. Oh, and they did not offer to pay a landing fee...

Or, as an alternative, pay less than the cost of an hour's flying a few times a year, to enjoy the results of someone else doing all of that work? Sounds like a deal to me!

I cannot think of any airport (Toronto International excepted - it's not a landing fee, it's an expensive deterrent to GA) at which I have landed and parked, where the cost for that privilage, was more than the cost to land and park my car there. I would not have thought the parking charge was unreasonable....

Have a heart, nobody ever got rich owning the land and running an airport. For those who break even, because they ask for some payment, they're just better businessmen than the rest of us! Who can fault that!

If my plane lived for £55, and I had nothing else to worry about, I'd think that was a great deal! Support your local airport anyway you can, lest they all become housing developments!

My encouraging thought for the evening..

Pilot DAR

[EK4457]

Pilot DAR

A very good post - the comparison to the car parking charge at major airports is an excellent point (although not applicable to Barton).

However, alas, the £55 charge is a little misleading as it is only appliccable to members of Lancs Aero Club.

So, a bit of maths:

The £55 charge only applies to 4 months which equates to £165 for the year.

165 + 250 (annual membership) + 50 joining fee = £465 for free landings for the year. Not a massive 'rip off', but not worth signing up for if not already a member.

I think it's a more of a sweetener to current members who are a little peeved with the Club.

But overall, I do agree with your point. Landing fees are understandable and are needed to fund airfields (even if Barton is expensive).

[KingLear9000]

The £55 is only for Members until March as a way to allow those affected by LAC's decision to remove the parking and landings allowance from the membership set up by BAOL

after that a similiar deal will be put in place which will allow ALL pilots regardless of being a member of LAC or not to have the Landings and Parking

ps M R is probably the only original flying instructor left (loves the chippy)

[Ronaldo7]

Benefits ? Good question.

THE most expensive flying club in the country and with the most expensive fuel.

Don't get me wrong, I fly from Barton and thoroughly enjoy the athmosphere but you can only push it so far. The prices in the clubhouse seem to go up on a regular basis.

The Clubhouse are seperate to the Flying School. The Flying School don't set the prices of the food and drink.

[Small Rodent Driver]

They did by the way!!!!

LAC is still in considerable funds!

With the cost of postage to the circa 600 members costing less than £200 even if sent first class,(considerably less for 2nd) it is an absolute disgrace that the membership were not afforded the courtesy of a direct communication regarding the IMPORTANT situation re: landing fees etc.etc.

The info was instead disseminated via Rumour in turn spread spread on public fora and a note placed in the clubhouse at Barton!

It would have cost nothing (other than a little time and effort) to advise the membership directly via e-mail. After all, LAC are in possesion of the e-mail addresses of all members who possess such.

Bad show LAC.:rolleyes: