Type Rating - B737

[Stealth]

Interested in doing the 737 type rating with Yugoslav Airlines. Has anyone done it with them? Any opinions on reputation, quality etc. Thank you.

[EGDR]

1 armed paper hanger,2 pound note, 3 legged horse, Yugoslav airlines ! Hmmmmm....

[EDDNR]

Rarely do things on PPRuNe make me smile, but this does!

Imagine it on your CV?

Rod

[herniair]

Serbiair?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I honestly wouldn't bother. If you take that to serious airlines with no other flying on the 737 they won;t be happy just to line train you and be done with it. They'll more than likely need/want to put you through a familiar groundschool/sim course. Therefore you'll not save them any money and you may have been taught the wrong thing in the first place.

A lot of pain for not much gain I would say.

Perhaps focus on a type rating for a turboprop that will be cheaper and definitely get you a job with a UK regional. 2 years later you can look to larger airlines at your leisure.

My 2 cents.

WWW

[JJflyer]

Most TP transport category turboprop typeratings are in the sae pricecategory as jet types. So it does not realy make a difference in that.
Do not get a type unless that is a prerequisite of employment. There is nothing as useless than a type you cannot use, money thrown away.

JJ

[B737what?]

I'm hoping that someone can put some sense into this post.

First of all, I'm not a fan of self sponsored ratings especially not expensive ones. But the story is that I have been given a JAA B737 rating. Someone in my family gave it to me, and they want me to do the training this fall.

I know that a B737 rating itself isn't worth very much due to the fact of no or little experience on the type. My current experience is 1300 TT with about 800 MEL (C340 and PA31). PIC is 940 and SIC is 300. I have a JAA frozen ATPL, and MCC completed in september.

Is it realistic to get hired by one of the low budget airlines around Europe or should I reject the offer? I love my current job flying light twins, but I would be lying if I told you that I'm not interested.

Please give me some opinions on this!

[Cough]

Say you are the Boss of xxxx low cost operator. You have to pick between two pilots.

1.Nice bloke, no type rating.
2.Nice bloke, type rating.

You have to, every month, go and justify your training costs to the MD. Who are you going to pick?

CCC.......ough

[Herod]

Go for it, the jobs are out there. If you don't like it you can always downsize again, it's the upsizing that's difficult.

[B737what?]

Yes Herod,

But what if it doesn't work out with any jobs and you lets say get a job offer on a ATR/DHC a year later. Would you hire a guy to fly ATR/DHC if he had a B737 rating. But only needed experience to get the B737 job?

Thanks anyway

[Tor]

With the kind of hours you have already you shouldn't have any problems in finding a job - so why use the money?

[EggBeta]

Just by way of interest, how much is a 737 rating?

[Frederic]

737WHAT?, Someone in your family GAVE you a 737 type rating? Gdam! Where do I sign up? U got a lonely sister?

[A7E Driver]

Call GECAT. £13K will get you 737 or A320 groundschool plus sim type training -- and they have arrangements with carriers to do the base training (6 T&Gs). Expensive -- so think carefully before going for it.

[schuler_tuned]

so it's rip,tear, oh look it's socks, rip, tear more socks! and if you're really lucky something remotely associated with flying, a book perhaps. but this year i got a 737 type rating course, which was nice!!!

[Direct Turnberry]

The airline I work for was not intrested in recruiting I guy I used to fly with despite him having a B757 rating. There is a guy on my fleet who had a rating with no time on type and he did the whole course again as far as I'm aware. Also I know a guy at easy who had a 737 rating with no type experience and he also did the whole course again complete with bond!!. Its is a gamble for sure, depends how rich your kind relative is.

[fudpucker]

B737 , I'm sure your relative is well meaning, but I suspect knows virtually about aviation.A type rating with no experience is no help in getting a job.As has been mentioned on this thread, you would have to do the entire conversion course again, and be bonded. The fact that you had a type rating would not necessarily indicate to the airline that you had the aptitude to actually fly the aircraft, for all they know it might have taken you much longer than average to actually pass the course!
If your relative insists on spending this money on you, I'd either ask for a decent car, or possibly help in buying a house when you get the job you want.
It might be worth approaching the low cost operaters and asking to pay for your training in their training system,I'm sure they would love it, but as you are aware by the wording in your post, you won't be doing anybody a favour by going down that route.
With your hours, I feel that you will get another job without too much trouble, it just may not be on a jet type. There is a shortage of experienced pilots. It is true that with the right mix of experience/type rating all you need to do is pick up the phone, but to be in this happy state you need at least 3000-3500 hours, airline experience preferably with command time and at least 1000 hours on the type that your prospective new employer operates.
With your time you fall into the "employable" category, but unless you are very lucky you are more likely to get a turboprop job.
Unfortunately, despite what various flying schools tell people, there are many just-qualified pilots on the market, you don't fall into that category, and are currently flying commercially, which counts for a lot at the interview.
Finally , a word of advice I was given nearly 30 years ago, and has already been mentioned, it is always easier to get a job flying a small aircraft after you've flown a large one than it is to get the job flying the large aircraft. If you really don't enjoy flying a bigger aircraft, go back to piston twins, but you'll lose nothing by trying bigger!

[Pilot Pete]

It all depends on your age really. If you are pushing on in life your best chance may be to take the type rating and then keep hammering on the doors of the 73 operators. Easy have several 'starters' going through type courses every month at present. I used to know an instructor who had 1000+ hours who paid for a 73 rating back in about 1997 who got a job pretty quickly with Virgin Express. He was 39 then!

If you're still young, which I'm guessing you are, why on earth haven't you been pushing the regionals? I know for a fact that British Regional have been crying out for people with your kind of hours on twins to put straight onto the ATP and on to the Barbie Jet within 12-18months. The regionals are desparate due to the 'Easies' of this world recruiting all their experienced(1 or 2 years) F/O's.

So come on, stop wondering if you need to accept or decline this wonderful offer of manner from heaven, get out there and get yourself that F/O seat and use the cash towards and Audi TT!!!!!!!!!

Best of luck(not that you need much more!)

PP

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Forget the 73 type rating. All decent UK operators will want you to got through their own course anyway. Talk to the regionals - with your experience you should have no difficulty getting a TP RHS. Brit Regional being a good bet...

Good luck,

WWW

[Delta Wun-Wun]

Another problem with doing the type rating and then going to someone like BRAL for a job they might think you are only using them as a springboard to other things.As already mentioned if your relative really wants to help,explain how the situation is in aviation.Help towards housing if you have to relocate could be just as helpful.

------------------
GET THE BLOODY NOSE DOWN!

[tabo]

I would like to find a TRTO center for a type rating B737 in europe
could you give me some adresses please?
thanks

[Capt PPRuNe]

On Wednesday night 30th January between 2000 and 2200UTC there will be an opportunity to put your questions to Hamrah and others about the PPRuNe Career Development Scheme being run in association with Astraeus.

The Q & A session will take place on PPRuNe Pilot Chat. To enter chat either click on the link on the menu list on the left of the page or <a href="http://www.pprune.org/chat/chaty.htm" target="_blank">click here</a>. You will need to log in using your Username and password.

[Steak Potatoe]

OK I will be there

[Rowley]

Would love to be there!

But i cant get on chat!I log in but says im using the wrong password! I know im using the right password though <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[spitfire747]

Rowley are you making sure the password is case snsitive ?

[Rowley]

Sure am

[Capt PPRuNe]

For a transcript of the Q & A session about the PPRuNe Careed Development Scheme in association with Astraeus on PPRuNe chat on 30th January please go to <a href="http://pprune.worldaviation.net.au/QA/20020130.html" target="_blank">HERE</a>

[calypso]

Thanks Danny all very usefull stuff. Could not log in yesterday.

Calypso

[HomerSimpson]

Thanks Danny for the transcript! As I couldn't join the fun the other evening the transcript helped answer a few questions.

Does anyone know how many applications are received to date (I know from the transcript it was about 60)?

Good Luck to all - its just a shame there are not going to be the same amount of places as applicants for the scheme.

Regards,. .Homer <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[HomerSimpson]

Back to the top!

[paddle]

Could any body please tell me where I might be able to do a JAR 737 type rating? USA or Europe. And, secondly does anybody know if the low cost carriers which operate 737s except non JAR approved 737 type ratings? Any information on where, when and how much with regard to 737 type ratings will be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Island Air]

To my knowledge no USA outfit has approval to do a JAR 737 type rating. In the UK it costs around £15K. I do not know how the 737 operators in the UK view a 'bought' rating, anyone..?

[A7E Driver]

Flight Safety Boeing might --- not sure. GECAT does a 737 rating at Gatwick.

[Island Air]

FlightSafety Boeing do indeed have a sim centre at Luton. The link below to their website also says they do JAR ratings in Seattle. Anyone know the cost at Luton v's USA?

<a href="http://www.fsbti.com/flight/flight" target="_blank">FSB</a>

[SimJock]

and here's the GECAT link

<a href="http://www.gecat.com/self2.asp" target="_blank">Self Sponsored Type Ratings</a>

[Island Air]

Gecat want £14K+ vat for the course plus £4K for the LPC on the aircraft, thats £20.5K !! Geez, the Ryanair deal looks better after all! <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

Seriously, who the hell can afford to do a 'self sponsored type rating' with Gecat? Rich kids only looks like, and there are too many of those in this industry already... <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[ 07 February 2002: Message edited by: Island Air ]</p>

[paddle]

Thanks for the replies guys. It will help alot. I'm currently trying to decide whether to take an upgrade to a bigger turbo prop and be bonded for 2 years for about US$20000,- or to let it shoot and get a 737 type rating. But, after reading all the stories here it seems I have a very luxurious decision to make. I do know where some of you guys are coming from because I've been there. Thanks again and good luck. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[devic]

Hello,. .. .I'd like to know which are the requirements for the 737 type rating according the JAA.. .I'm interested in the 737 type rating at CSA, and about the simulator, they explane :" The FFS certification was done according to the European JAR-STD-1A standards; both the Motion and Visual systems fully comply with the Level D standard and were certified ". .What is this Level D?

[AYR521]

According to JAR-FCL1 you need:. .1)at least 100 hours as pilot in command of airplanes.. .2)have a valid multi-engine instrument rating.. .3)hold a certificate of satisfactory completion of multi-crew co-operation(MCC). .4)have the JAR-FCL ATPL(A)theory passed.. .Ciao!!

[Stealth]

Hi Swedish,. .How much is it going to cost for the CSA type rating? I heard that the cost is about 22,000USD.. .Where are you going to do your base and line training?

[devic]

Thank you,. .. .My other curiosity: is the type rating taken for example in Czech Republic (of course according to the JAR) going to be valid in other JAR European countries?. .For example, is it going to be valid in Italy without any further exams or timbers from the local Civil Aviation Authority??

[AYR521]

Czech Republic did not gain JAA Mutual Recognition yet so any kind of flight training performed there is not automatically recognised in the other JAA countries until they pass the JAA Audit.. .For the moment only Denmark,UK,Iceland,France,Switzerland,Netherlands,Sweden,Bel gium,Spain,and Finland obtained JAA Mutual Recognition.

[easondown]

Stealth,. .. .In order to get the type rating endorsed on your licence, in this country, you don't need to do the line training. After the theory and sim training all you do are some circuits in the aircraft.

[devic]

&gt;AYR521 you wrote that " Czech Republic did not gain JAA Mutual Recognition yet, so any kind of flight training performed there is not automatically recognised in the other JAA countries until they pass the JAA Auditbut. " But at CSA they underlined that the course is conducted by (or under the supervision of) CAE Flight Crew Training, which is an approved TRTO according to JAR-FCL 1 regulations.This course is approved by the Joint Aviation Authorities (JAA) according to JAR-FCL 1 regulations. The full flight simulators used in this course are approved according to JAR-STD1A regulations and meet Level C or D requirements.. .So, I guess your information is not completely correct, but what is a JAA Auditbut?. .&gt; onemorehold you wrote that "In order to get the type rating endorsed on your licence, in this country, you don't need to do the line training. After the theory and sim training all you do are some circuits in the aircraft. ". .About which country are you referring to? And about the circuits in the aircraft, can you be more precise, do I have to do an exact number of hours in the plane?

[AYR521]

Which JAA aviation authority approved CAE Flight Crew Training TRTO?. .When a flight simulator is used for a type rating training a pilot with less than 500 hours flight time on similar types,or less than 1500 hours total flight time must complete at least 6 take-offs and landings.

[Dutchie]

They are certified by the Dutch CAA.

[easondown]

AYR521,. .. .Out of interest are you sure about your information (and where did you get it?) I have done several type ratings and have several thousand hours, but have always had to do circiuts in the aircraft after sim training in order to complete the type rating and have my licence endorsed.

[AYR521]

I mean you need to complete 6 take-offs and landings on the aircraft after the simulator training.

[dick badcock]

As far as I know, some programs can be approved as zero flight time conversions (depending on type of sim etc.) where (again, as far as I know) you need not do any circuits in the aircraft, but can do them all in the sim. As far as line training is concerned, this need not be included for purposes of obtaining a type rating, however most airlines include this as a lead up to your base relase or initial line check. But you have your rating a long time before you even fly with passengers (i.e. after your LST is passed and you have done your circuits). .. .But then, which airline is interested in a pilot who has a rating, but no hours!!!????. .. .--&gt; AYR521, you can add Ireland to your list of JAA states with mutual recognition status, the IAA got their approval now just before Christmas (and I got a JAR FCL licence as a New Year's present!)

[AYR521]

I am glad to learn that Ireland got mutual recognition status.My apologies!

[pinguino]

It seems Panair of Palermo is selling 737 type rating courses still under old national rules so you don't need the jar-fcl frozen atpl. Price is 55mln itl liras if you already have a t/r or 75 mln if it's the first t/r, they are going to start in April.. .. . Please note that I'm not in any way involved with the above stated company so this is not an advertisement. I'm not recommending to do this course I just refer this news as I heard it (a rumor) so take it as is.. . . . <small>[ 24 March 2002, 18:52: Message edited by: pinguino ]</small>

[LimaNovember]

And according to the Norwegian CAA they have passed the audit and are waiting for the letter with the seal on it.. .. .Swedish,. .. .why do you want to do with CSA?. . . . <small>[ 24 March 2002, 18:38: Message edited by: LimaNovember ]</small>

[Stealth]

&gt;why do you want to do with CSA?. .I guess it is the money factor. Would you pay 22,000 pounds in UK or 22,000 USD with the CSA for the same course? The best option is to go to the US and do it for 9,995USD. Then you would have enough money left to buy some hours in the a/c.

[devic]

Ok, can you tell me where can I find the type rating in the US and do for 9,995USD?. .. .Thanks!

[pinguino]

Are you sure FAA type ratings are valid under JAA?. .I don't think so!. . . . <small>[ 25 March 2002, 15:22: Message edited by: pinguino ]</small>

[Stealth]

Well, I am not familiar with JAA rules, however I think it is possible to bypass it. If Swedish has an Italian licence and ads a FAA type rating on it, he would need 500 hours in a multicrew environment in order to upgraded it to a JAA one. So, you can pay 10,000USD for a FAA type rating and use the remaining 15,000USD to purchase 500 hours of line training and you will be on top.

[zoru]

Stealth. .. .Is it posible to get 500 hrs experience on 737 for 15000 usd ? I think there would be a lot of takers...

[cool blue]

Swedish - how much is the CSA type rating?

[devic]

Stealth,. .. .Please tell me the address of the training facility which provide 737 type ratings for that small amount of cash, it would be very useful to me.. .Thanks

[Ballinthemiddle]

What a waste of money! no operator is going to give you a position on the 737 with no time experience on type, when there are hundreds of type rated guys on the market, with time on type.. .Save your money, If you really must part with a huge amount of cash, take up Ryanairs offer.

[cool blue]

Swedish - where is your community spirit? Perhaps you dont want us all to know how cheap the CSA course is? Tuff.. .For everyone else - I spent considerable time investigating this whole issue of doing an FAA 737 type rating. I came to the conclusion that it wasnt worthwhile for those wishing to work in the UK. The CAA will not recognise/convert it unless you have 500hrs on type.

[devic]

Ok Ballinthemiddle, which are the Ryan Air offers then?. .About the prices of the CSA 737 type rating:. .. .B737-300/400 Type Qualification course - Basic € 26,250.-- per crew. .. .B737-300/400 Type Qualification course - Extended, no FMS € 30,000.-- per crew. .. .B737-300/400 Type Qualification course - Extended, incl. FMS € 32,500.-- per crew. .. .B737-300/400 Type Qualification course - (option 3) € 2,210.-- per crew. .. .B737-300/400 Type Qualification course - (option 4) € 2,210.-- per crew

[easondown]

swedish,. .. .I think if you double check your research into your price list this will only includes the ground school and simulator but not the circuits in the aircraft !! - so you would have to go elsewhere to complete the type rating. I think this may cost you around 3000-4000 pounds approx to complete the rating.. . . . <small>[ 26 March 2002, 21:06: Message edited by: onemorehold ]</small>

[Aeronavigant]

Swedish. .there are many companies in the USA offering B737 type rating. I could name aeroservice in miami, pan-am ( associated with jetech intl')in FL. Also continental offers B737-300 efis for less than 10K USD their Houston center.. .What you need to understand if you are low houred pilot with no heavy jet time is that all these programs will carry extra costs to you as they are designed for experienced pilots. attending such 15 days course requires extensive home study and very often the school will not accept you if then know you have less than 700 hours ( honestly they'll ridicule you!). .Besides an FAA type rating cannot go on your JAA license right away and that depends again on the country you're in !! in the UK they say get 500 hours and we'll switch it to your uk-JAA license.. .About a JAA type rating it will cost you anywhere from 16500 GBP and UP.. .If you are keen on spending money. Eagle Jet in Miami is offering B737-800 NG JAA type rating plus 250 hours line experience for about 44000 USD.

[Stealth]

Continental has no minimum hour requirement. There is a mob in Canada running a course for low timers as well. Yes these courses are designed for experienced pilots, however you do not call in today to start the course next week. I am a low timer and I am going to spend at least two months studying at home. Obviously a candidate should have the ATPL knowledge and advanced understanding of jet systems and EFIS. I am pretty comfortable with it having completed a degree in civil aviation. It is definitely not for people with CPL background. 1500 hours of flying in a C182 will not help you a bit towards this type rating.

[Bamse01]

Where does Eagle Jet do the 250 hrs line experience?

[stator vane]

i took my logbooks to the UK CAA and only because i have over 12,900 hours total time and over 5000 hours in left seat of B737, they require me to take the air law test, and human performance and radio telephone tests and then a skills test in a 737 sim and they say they will give me a JAR-FCL ATPL with 737 rating, but only good on UK registered aircraft. . .. .so when one of you said, the JAA will accept the FAA type rating, i can tell you for sure they will not!!!

[zoru]

Bamsea01. .. .I believe that it is done in europe but dont know which carrier. sry.. .. .Stealth. .. .are you still looking at the yugoslav option?. .if so how would you then get the 500 on type for jar ?. .Thanks for your info and good luck.. . . . <small>[ 27 March 2002, 23:15: Message edited by: zoru ]</small>

[Stealth]

I was always on a lookout for a better deal, so Continental’s offer was the best and I signed the contract with them. I spent hours over the past few months researching the facts and decided that my training should be done in two or three stages. This is the best solution that secures both the quality and thoughtful management of mine financial resources.. .Why would I pay thousands of pounds for the training in UK or with the CSA? Before they obtained their TRTO approval they were very competitive. Can they provide better training than Continental? Do not think so. They switched to western made a/c just 8 years ago.. .I succeeded to organise my line training with at list 5 airlines (Europe and Africa). I do not want to comment about that except to say that I spent hours on the phone talking to various training managers. Anyone can do that. I want to dismiss some comments from various people here implying that we are working for free. I can ensure you that none of these airlines who offered the line training had even tried to propose such an arrangement. In all cases their f/o would be present in the cockpit in the jump seat. Therefore I am buying my training, nothing immoral about that.. .I have already converted my Australian licences in one of the countries that are not full JAA members and a FAA rating would be added to it.. .The best way to achieve 500 hours on a 737 is to do 250 hours with each airline or maybe 3 airlines.. . . . <small>[ 28 March 2002, 13:32: Message edited by: Stealth ]</small>

[easondown]

Stealth,. .. .Where is continental and how much did your rating cost ?

[dudu]

I have a frozen ATPL, FAA ATP, 3,400 TT and 1400 SIC in a Falcon 20. I am considering to optain a FAA 737 type. Would this improve my chances to get on with Ryan Air, Easyjet or Sterling. Would apreciate any input.

[The Greaser]

I don't think putting the type rating on the FAA licence would make any difference as this would not allow you to fly G reg 737's. Why don't you get a JAR ATPL and put it on there? Either way in the current climate it is probably not worth it anyway, Easyjet and Ryanair are both readily willing to take non-type rated pilots, especially those with jet experience as you do.

Good luck :)

[scroggs]

An FAA type rating isn't going to be much use to you in a JAA airline. In any case, EZ and Ryanair's requirement is for type rated and experienced pilots on the 737 for direct entry commands and accelerated promotion.
In general, a type rating alone isn't worth the money. Most airlines in the UK will want to put you through their full training system, whatever your previous experience, and will give little or no credit for a type rating with no associated line experience.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

As Scroggs says....

WWW

[easondown]

The greaser,

Why don't you just stick to selling burgers and stop giving duff info to people and try and get to FATPL unfrozen. its people like you, that don't even have an airline job, that try to give advice that really annoy me.

[The Greaser]

Easondown,

You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder, I only made an opinion based on what I think, it's not gospel, but at least I give advice rather than slagging off other posts. I think what I have said is reasonable advice - Scroggs has agreed that putting a 737 type rating on an FAA licence is not going to help.

I don't feel the tone of my message is upsetting to anyone, so.........

GET A LIFE

Maybe you should stick to early nights, or was your pathetic post an April Fool maybe?

[ArcticCircle]

dudu,

That frozen ATPL you have is JAA one? If so, you can do it in any JAA country. But if it is a matter of cost you can do it in the USA, and, providing the simulator is JAA approved, you can have a JAA TRE sit in on your check ride. Then you will have your B737 type rating on both licenses. If what I`m saying is wrong, please correct me anyone.

[Meeb]

Sorry ArticCircle you are wrong, the training in the states would have to be with a JAR TRTO to be able to have the rating endorsed on a JAR licence. A check ride with a JAR examiner, no such thing.

[zoru]

Stealth

thanks for the info on continental...but a couple of things are still bugging me-

did you manage to get the faa rating onto your jaa licence?
do you have to get the necessary 500 hours on type?
how do you get those hours without winning the lottery?

cheers and good luck ;)

[mutt]

Stealth,

Out of interest, just how much is all of this going to cost you??

Mutt :)

[SimJock]

I'll just bung in my link again...

Self Sponsored Type Ratings (http://www.gecat.com/self2.asp)

[scroggs]

SimJock, I assume you are an employee of GECAT? I think it would be fairer to those reading this thread if you stated your vested interest in the company you are promoting. :mad:

As the website is of interest, I'll let the link stand, but I will add that type ratings without commensurate experience are a complete waste of money. Do not be suckered in by the 'kudos' of having B737 on your brand-new fATPL; you can be sure that no employer will be impressed unless you have completed the full line training procedure of 20 or more revenue sectors - at the very least. Save your money; UK and European carriers do their own training.

[speedy688]

Anyone know how much these are and is it a big advantage having it on top of a frozen ATPL with 300hrs with regards to getting a job?

[sickBocks]

£15k-£18k. Not very useful as you have no time on type. As I said in another posting round here somewhere, you may get your CV to the desk and not in the bin straight away - but time on type is king.

Would personally blow the dough on an instructor rating (if it floats your boat) and gain useful experience teaching people. Or buying a block of multi-time, anything that racks up the hours is good, but some elements of flying are seen as more undisciplined and therefore frowned upon more than others. Unless of course the interviewing pilot comes from a background such as Meat-bombing or Glider-towing and then you have instant rapport.

Talk to the IPA. Their advice will be better than mine.

sB

[scroggs]

Do not waste your money. No UK airline will accept a 300 hour candidate with a 737 rating over one without as you have no line experience. They will train you if they want you. Run a search on 737 or jet type ratings for more information.
Believe me, the only person you'll be helping is your loan shark.

[Mindthegap]

new training costs:

B737Efis Type rating
Ground course and simulator - GBP 10200.
Base training available.
E-mail The Cockpit Forum for further details.


B737NG Conversion course
Ground course and simulator - GBP 2900
E-mail The cockpit Forum for details

e-mail is:
[email protected]

[A and C]

The 737 will always be a good type rating to have but with only 250-300 hours flying to back it up you will have an uphill task when it comes to the line training !

If I was at your stage in the job market and wanted to buy a type rating I would look at a cheap turboprop type ( shed ?) and get some "commercial time " in and top up the bank account before your next move.

I,v seen more than one person buy a 737 rating and then fail to get a job and think that it likely that will be your fate , I would like you to prove me wrong but the odds are not on your side.

[stormywx]

I don't know about the UK, but in Aust having a 737 rating like that would wipe out any chance of you getting a regional job too. No regional airline wants someone with a jet rating who might fly off into the distance in 6 months time once they have 200 or so more hours.

[Bumfichh]

Hi

I have been looking at the cost of a 737 type rating in the UK seems to be around £20k and as usual its about half that in the states, is it possible to convert a USA rating? any info gratefuly recieved.

[FRIDAY]

I am pretty sure a Type rating does not come under the clasification of a JAA or FAA TR, If you get a type rating on a 737 it don't matter what country you got it. As for the states yes its cheaper, but at the moment its not possible for a foreign student to get type rated on any aircraft over a specified weight limit in the states. I can't remember what the limit is but most jet and turbo prop aircraft are over it. Other then airlines specified requirements on a flight deck for a new aircraft there is no difference in a 737 anywhere in the world that would require coversion training unless its possibley a different series. I believe with the airbus TR you can be covered on 2 or 3 different airbus aircraft e.g 321/320/310.
I would also suggest a type rating ain't the best way to go for a job, it narrows your choices for operators of that type, its pretty much useless unless you have the hrs to back it up on type. Best bet if you want to spend that cash on TR is to do it through the likes of Ryanair who require payment up front for TR.
Another option, although I've no idea about it so delve into it yourself is with some of the charter operators or fractional companies that operate light aircraft e.g king air's in the states and other places will offer you a position in the right seat to gain hrs,but your paying for them through the teeth and I am not sure how many aircraft will slip under the weight limit for TR for foreigners in the states. This is a possible option but a dodgy one at that at the moment. I think eagle-jet in the states run a few of these type of programmes, they look very tempting but be careful.

[Farqhuar C Lee]

B737 EFIS/NG Type Rating on the cheap anyone??

Email me for further details.

[Splat]

FCL,

Just sent you a private message.

S

[FatFlyer]

I don't think an FAA type rating is valid in JAR states unless of course you do it with a JAR approved TRTO.

I believe that if you have 500 hours on type as well, the CAA will validate the rating so you could fly UK/JAR registered planes though you need to check this with them

[number]

Hi,

I'm a low time pilot with just 400TT, I will start a first officer program program with about 300h of line experience in B737-200, actually I wanted to do the B737-800 one but they told me I didn't have enough fly time and that a few hundred hours of turbine time were needed.
Does anyone have done experience with these first officer programs? Is it possible to continue working for the airliner in which you've been trained as a co-pilot for 300h for example?
Thanks for listening, anyone who wants to write me is welcome:
[email protected]

[christian_MD80]

Looks like you are going to waste a lot of money on a typerating and the possibility to sit RHS on a 737.

Maybe you could provide us with the nature and expenses of your program. Their might be some collegues who did similar programs beforehand and could tell about their experience.

Sorry, don`t think it will help you much, but just takes your money, if its the kind of programs I know about.

Chris

[Modelmaker]

true - christian_MD80 - i'm a JAA CPL/IR/ME pilot, frozen ATPL and 25, i've informed about these programs.
Let's face it: we've already spent a great bunch of money on our ab-initio-training - enough money spent for now, we're unemployed now but hey, we're still young - i prefer waiting 'til the right occasion and look a bit further each time on the job-market... Sure - if i was offered a job as F/O of a jet, i would be willing to pay the rating...

I know i lack turbine/jet hours for the moment - but i don't care - there will be ab-initio people hired one day of another - i just need to keep myself flying a bit, stay alert and updated and my time will be coming

[number]

The problem Modelmaker, is that there will be no occasion for low time pilots like me, I've to add some extra flight time in my curriculum. The flight training facility doesn't ask me any cash in advance.
Honestly, I think it's the only valid investiment I've seen around, if you have any idea of a better way to spend 36000$ and getting your career moving over, just let me know. Let's keep chancing our information and rumors!
take care and good luck

[AYR521]

Hi Number,
This sounds to me like an Eaglejet program,isn't it?
Are they providing a JAA B737-200 type rating course as well?

[MJR]

Anybody

Once again in flight international this week there is yet another advert for 737 type rated pilots. With so many airlines now advertising for 737 type rated pilots can there be many left unemployed who want to fly again .:)

Is the 737 type rating in the greatest demand and is it likely to stay so?

cheers


MJR

[Splat]

MJR,

Any idea who for?

Splat

[radarnose]

Right MJR,


I was wondering about that myself!

How many typerated (and with TYPE-experience for that matter) pilots are still out there.

And..when will this pile of experienced pilots dry up?

Or...are the companies who put out those adverts just aiming high and end up hiring non-typerated pilots?

Is there anyone who can shed a light on this?

Greetings from another wannabe!

http://www.smilies.nl/cry.gif

Splat,

Channel Express Ltd.

Later

[deza]

I did a 737 rating five years ago it did nothing for me still could not get a job,all the rejection letters said you need experiance on type.thou i did get a job 2 years ago flying for an air taxi company. And I have just been made redundent maybe i should try again. I have 3000 hrs 400 multi and a 737 300-900 rating but no turbine or jet time.

cheers

deza

[MJR]

I'm not advocating the benefits of getting a self sponsored type rating as this will no doubt unlock a barrage of good idea/bad idea comments, although personally I thinks it s a bad idea unless there is a guarantee of a job at the end of it. However my original questions still stands:

1.Are there still many type rated pilots still unemployed in Europe?

2. Is a 737-XXX rating the most attractive commercial jet rating to have?

3. Will an airbus rating become so?

and heres another one for good measure.

Would a turbo prop operator consider a 737, 757, 767, 747 driver for a job knowing that as soon as things get better they'll be off back to jets and the big bucks?

ta ta

MJR

[Orange Budgie]

Interesting times we live in MJR - it seems that at the moment the 737 is king... and that time on type is essential. It's the old catch 22 - can't get a job until you have hours on type and can't get hours on type until you get a job.. . have not yet figured out a plan to get around this... Hold on a minute - Hey anyone fancy getting a syndicate together and buying a share in a 737?

I have an A320 rating with over 100 hours on type - and it's about as much use as a chocolate tea pot. :( I have a million rejection letters (ok maybe a few less ;) ) and all say come back when you have 1500 hrs..... To my knowledge my local flying club hasn't yet got an A320 for hours building:D

With no one in the industry prepared to give me a chance i'm off to Africa which has a "can do " mentality...:cool:

[MJR]

Not wishing to pry OB, but why was your Airbus career only 100 hours.

TTFN

MJR

[GEENY]

O Budgie,
have you tried Volare in Italy? (+39 0331 713 701)
Several italian airlines are looking for 737 rated: Azzura,AirOne,Alisea...

[jet3000]

Hey all,

I did a 737 type rating last year and got a job 2 weeks after completion, 3 out of the 4 on the course are now working. i know its a lot of cash to fork out especally after all the initial training but i think it was money well spent, as for the debate on which is a better rating to have id go with the 737 any day, have a mate with a 320 rating and he had to go to asia to find work in the end.
just from listening around the 737 type rated guys are drying up fast especally with easy and ryan recruting like crazy at the moment !!

[scroggs]

I think there probably are a few 737-rated pilots still left out there, although the pile must be getting smaller by now. Remember that many, many longhaul pilots (ex-Swissair, Sabena, SAS, Virgin and others who've recently folded or laid off) have 737 experience, and will be in the same employment queue as you.

The 737 is definitely the rating to have just now but, with EZ's A320 order, the Airbus guys will have their day. Either way, experience is still the key. Like many others, I wouldn't generally recommend anyone getting a self-sponsored type rating, as they rarely help in the job search. However, if you insist on getting one, spend enough to get one with line flying time. I believe that Astraeus are offering exactly this right now.

Scroggs
Virgin/Wannabes Moderator
[email protected]

[Grivation]

The crystal ball just told me that easy's A320 order includes crew training - so whatever you do don't go rushing out to buy an Airbus rating.

[eagerbeaver]

i have asked this before and i know it may be a little dull, but i have sorted myself out a course with the JAC academy but would like to here of anyone who has been through the 'selection' process and has completed training with them. I have some info and background on it all but would like to here more from other customers.
Maybe a few of the guys who fly for astreaus could chip in as JAC Academy claims the ground instruction and base/line training is done with them.
As you may appreciate i am a little apprehensive before handing over £20'000

[AYR521]

I received an e-mail about the french owner of Jac-Academy and his previus misconduct.
I can not guarantee for the content,but I can share it with you and anybody else who is interested.
So drop me a line and I will send you a copy. [email protected]

[FatFlyer]

If you are going to do a type rating with Astaeus, why not go to them direct instead of through JAC ? You would get it for less than 20K.

[eagerbeaver]

astreaus dont offer a type rating you have to go through JAC Academy. JAC claim that astreaus do the ground school then the simulator training at Gecat.
If anyone wants to know a lot more about JAC i will email them, send me a pm with your email address its quite interesting.

[PENNINE BOY]

Hey Guys Be Carefull Out There!!!!!

Most of you guys n girls allready owe a bucketfull of cash.

I know of 2 guys who went down the Astraeus route, 1 guy got his rating and still is out of work the other guy did 1 week of ground school only to be told that the price of the course has gone up plus added costs of paying to position the aircraft from Gatwick to Cardiff to conduct the circuits.

I am allso amazed at the amount of times that the same carrier advertises for type rated 737 pilots, when you speak to these guys they say that they are still getting enough pilots to meet the demand.

The other catch is once you have shelled out for your rating and are half way through and the Baseball match with Saddam kicks off do you honestly think that you will get employed?

Keep giving your CVs to guys in companys that can hopefully put it on the desk rather than in the pile that takes longer to be looked at, and keep networking it will work!!

[Dr.Evil 2002]

Can anyone shed any light on how many unemployed 737 type rated pilots there are in the UK?

Also, has anyone gone down the self type rating route? Positives and negatives please.

Cheers!

[Aviation Trainer too]

Never do a type rating without a job at the end otherwise it is worthless!!!!!

If you still think about doing it make sure you get line experience at the end.

Don't do it is the best bet!

[Azzurri]

Hello,
Could anybody tell me where I might be able to do a 737 NG, or a BBJ type rating?

Thanks for any replies.
A.

[Aviation Trainer too]

Do you mean JAA or FAA, makes quite a difference..

[Azzurri]

I guess I mean getting the endorsement on an FAA ATP...

[alki]

Try www.premair.com. They have an NG program.

[George Tower]

Could any one give me any idea as to where I can obtain the above type rating (self funded).

Many thanks

PS Please don't turn this into a debate about the merits or not paying for your own type rating as I know that argument chapter and verse.

[loulou]

you can try at the sabena flight academy brussels
the adress is www.sfa.be

[Flying Lion]

AVTEC in Dublin run a 732 course using the Aer Lingus simulator. Contact Linda Logan on 00-353-1-8161750 for details. I know 2 guys who did this then got jobs with the larger Irish carrier. Good Luck

[orangesky]

i seem to recall seeing that Safair in JNB do a 732 rating, not sure if you are on SA or JAA licence whether that makes a difference to where you do the rating i am not sure ......

[George Tower]

Thanks fellas - I will investigate the contacts provided and see what they can offer.

Many thanks

GT

[Deske]

Please tell me about the "so many airlines are advertising for B737 jobs" ?

I am rated on B737-NG and EFIS as well with 1300 hours on type.

[Hamrah]

eagerbeaver,

you are partly correct. Astraeus does not " do " type-ratings. However our subsidiary , Bond Aviation Solutions does type ratings on 737 and A320. We were approached by JAC acadamy some time ago to partner us on the type ratings. However, we declined involvement following our dicovery of " problems" with JAC Acadamy paying their bills.

Most of the people who do type ratings with BOND are gainfully employed in the industry, some with Astraeus. Some of the candidates also do some line training with us to consolidate their conversion course.

At this time neither BOND nor Astraeus have any connection whatsoever with JAC Acadamy.

H

[adwjenk]

Hi

Just seen an advert in the back of pilot from Stapleford flight centre advertisng a course from zero hours to B737 type rating and 100hrs line traning.
Can anybody shed any light on this matter becuase this is for people who want to pay there way and the course only costs £49,995 with a commercial jet type rating at the end. Does anybody know anything abut it or has anybdy been through the course thanks for your help.

adwj

[AIRWAY]

Hello,

Could you please use the search function, has there is a couple of threads regarding Stapleford and Astraeus going around.

Regards

[henriksch]

Hi

Just a quick q?..... Hope anyone has a good answer.....

If you take a type rating for a 737-300.... What must be done to be able to fly the 737-800???

Anybody know where theese things can be looked up?

Thanks

[redsnail]

A differences course. Usually requires some technical lectures (should be too long) and a couple of sessions in a sim.
Most 737-300 to -800 diff courses can be knocked over in about a week.

[henriksch]

Thanks.....

Any idea of the costs for such a course?

[moku]

Do not know the price off the top of my head but the link below should give you the contact info to get further details.



Moku.alteon (http://catalog.alteontraining.com/catsearch/srchShowCourse.asp?course_id=3541&sort=&selBU=FT&selModel=737&chkMatch=&txtKeyword=&Title=Flight%20Training%20737-600/-700/-800/-900%20Differences%20Training)

[redsnail]

Should pay ~ £2,000 or so (being generous). Plus accomodation. :D

[justinabeavor]

I completed the TRTO with Astraeus in Jan and then did the NG differences before going to Excel.

The Cost from Astraeus was £1500 as a bolt on, and we were given one bit of photocopied paper and a fixed base, followed by a full flight session. I guess this is a minimum requirement, but I did'nt feel it was enough, other than as a paperwork exercise.

At Excel, we then had two more fixed base and five full flight and five days ground school to do the job properly.

I gather Easy is about the same.

Question is: do you just want it on the licence or do you really want to be able to operate the airplane?

Draw your own conclusions.

[screwdriver]

Can someone answer the following. Does a 737 type rating include all types ie 400/500/NG? Also are there any NG fixed base or FFS in the UK or Eire?

[IRRenewal]

My UK issued type rating says 737-300~900. If you train on the classic you need to do differences training to fly the NG and visa versa.

[screwdriver]

Thanks for the speedy reply. What form does the differences training take. Specifically-is any hardware involved?

[Capt Flinstone]

HI Fellow-pilots.........

I am searching 4 a organisation who can provide Line-training for at least 100 hours, in a B737-300 preferrable !!

Holder of a JAA Type-rating B737-300/900 and Frozen ATPL etc etcccc........

Thanx for ALL replies...

Capt Flinstone

[PicMas]

AMEN, couldn't have put that any better!!!!!

[Shiny side down]

I have a B737 rating, and am looking for a job. I will go anywhere, as long as I can make the numbers work (£). I don't even need to eat more than twice a week.

:uhoh:

Any suggestions? Other than the usual UK/EU operators that I have already tried and keep trying.
I am slowly working my way front to back (and then back to front)through this years Flight International airline directory.

Gizza Job!

[POL.777]

Seems like a stupid question but here goes.

I know that the 737NG family is the -600 -700 -800 and -900. However I find that some pilots fly the 737-500 with a NG rating - how is that possible?

Best regards

POL

[Localiser Green]

A differences course should see to it.

Same applies the other way round (-300,-400,-500 drivers also flying the NG). Just depends which you flew first I guess.

[POL.777]

Yeah that is what I thought. But I have heard something about the layout of the -500 efis flightdeck could have a be of a special setup in a way that made it possible to fly on a NG rating (or was it the other way around).
Maybe someone misinformed me...

[Localiser Green]

Airlines can customise their 737NG displays to make them look like the older versions (a la Southwest Airlines)

Like This (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/596175/L/)

While the standard setup is the new 777-style PFD/ND layout:

Like This (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/399576/L/)

It is not a requirement however for the screens to look like the old type to allow a differences course, as easyJet have the new-style displays on their NGs which are flown by pilots who also fly the 733s.

My guess is that it's just customer preference.

[skyteam]

Does anybody can help?¿

How the seleccions are?
After the type or before A.A contracts you?
How can i prepare for the psycometric tests???


Please Help me..

Cheers

I\'ve sent the application form ,my total flight time is 340 hrs jaa license cpla atl frozen mcc me ir,,, but i don\'t know if i comply with the requirements...


Cheers

[Great Circle]

skyteam-

Heard that there have been some major bumps in the road for the self sponsered type rating pilots. Those guys completed the type training and then were unable to do any flying at all due to the government. I don't know the exact problem but maybe another ppruner may be able to shed some light. All is still in limbo from what I hear and they are going on 4 to 6 months without flying the real bird at all!! My heart goes out to them-spend all that money and then get NOTHING that was promised. I think it is total :mad: I have some friends in that group. I hope it works out for them.

My guess is that you might be already type rated with experience and AA is bringing you in to fill the void caused by this governmental snafoo. Be careful and don't end up like my buddies :ugh: :ouch: with no money.

Great Circle

[Speedbird744]

Anyone care to explain why the government might ban expat pilots from line experience?

[fly-half]

Air Asia were getting away with using temporary working visas and the government has stopped them doing that. It will take at least until the middle of December to issue full and valid passes apparently. This is the reason why the airine has not brought out any more ex-pats.

[Puritan]

Well Astraeus have literally just delivered one B737-300 for Air Asia ( with a second B737-300 imminently about to depart ) to Kuala Lumpur - all on a 'damp lease' ( i.e. Astraeus supply aircraft and UK pilots ) - and of which you might be interested to read some of the paragraphs of a Flight Crew Memo issued to those crews this very day: Until the issue of a work permit, it is necessary to collect a security pass each day. To acquire a pass all pilots require a letter from Air Asia to confirm the need for the pass and reason for its issue. Crew can obtain the letter from the Air Asia corporate offices on the fourth floor of the main terminal building. Report to the security office, the Security Manager is Major Victor Joe Joseph. Your letter will be valid for 7 days and will need to be renewed whilst waiting of a permanent pass.

Before reporting for duty, go to the security desk on level 5 of the main terminal building. Present the security officer with your letter, a photo ID (driving licence is best) and pay a fee of 1RM (about 15 pence). They will issue you with a pass and a wrist band. You must wear both and have them visible at all times. Security will keep your photo ID until the pass is returned. Having collected a day pass crew then need to proceed through International Departures or Domestic Arrivals, depending whether the flight departure is domestic or international.

Obtaining a work permit will take about one month. When a work permit is issued, Air Asia will provide a photo ID and there will then be no requirement to report to the security desk each day. The permanent pass will also allow swipe access through the security doors. When you have that privilege, do not forget to ensure the security door is closed behind you. If it is not closed the airport security can trace the owner of the card that swiped the door open and withdraw the pass.So there you have it, chapter and verse folks.

Ps. I'd be in KL myself, but instead have the delights of the B757 and West Africa routes to look forward too. ;)

[skyteam]

Do you know when there are the seleccions of parc?

I've just sent the application......

[IRISHPILOT]

Thought I`d put some cheap TRTOs out there. I don`t work for any of them and haven`t done a 737 rating with any of them. Surely, this post will soon get abused, but feel free to add any more TRTOs.

TR 737-800 for EUR12500 (approx. GBP 8000) plus base check here. (http://www.flugausbildung.de)

get a quote with these chaps. (http://www.flugschule-berlin.de/index_e.htm) Don`t know their price, but many go through them.

Czech Airlines used to be USD17000 including base check, though this was 2 years ago (http://www.ok-plus.com/en/posadky/pos_vycvik.htm)

remember to ask how much the VAT is. - Czech Republic has 5%, Denmark none, Germany 16%, I believe. Czech Republic is cheapest to live (50p for a Pilsener).

regards, IP

[Little Miss]

Hi I m one of those Air Asia lot and most of them hope to start work in the next few days. Getting a pass isn t that hard. Genuine mistake on Air Asia s side.

[The mole]

Puritan/ Little Miss:

I guess the pilots supplied are a mix of newbies just trained and old hands from Astraeus?

[skyteam]

Does anybody know when Parc aviation assessment are?

Cos i've sent them the application form but nobody answered me...

[Puritan]

The mole - in a word, the answer to your question is "Yes".

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

Does anyone know any cheap typerating providers. Lufthansa is offering typerating for 16500 euro, do you think I can do it cheaper somewhere else.

Tried to search in spain but no luck.

[AIRWAY]

Hello,

Im lead to believe a few months back Ansett ( flight training devision, cant remember their name now ) in Australia was offering B737 rating for £8000 :confused: quite cheap... Obviously there would be extra costs like trip, accomodation and conversion i believe. I might be missing some facts here but this was around awhile back.

Regards

[kiki]

has anyone got feeback on www.activeaerospace.net

they do 737ng ratings there,, i think 16K USD

[Dutchie]

Shouldn't the question be: who has the best value for money???:hmm:

[NoseGear]

Kiki, see what Dutchie said, and don't apply it to Active:yuk: That has got to be the shoddiest, most unprofessional outfit, after your money and screw you, company I have ever seen:mad:

Pm me if you want more details.

Nosey

[Oiga]

Correct me if I´m wrong, but I think that this guy is looking for JAR TRTO.

[Stan's wings]

I intend to do a B737 type rating in Europe.

I've been in touch with Danfly, RWL and CSA (Czesh airline).
Does anybody know these schools ? Any experience or advise ...

For RWL and CSA, I am looking for a 2nd pilote trainee to start the training.
If you also intend to do a B737 type rating, please contact me!

Thanks for your help.
Have good flights.

Stan's wings

[prelude]

Hey Guys,

I have a Canadian commercial with a Group 1 instrument rating and would like to get a 737-200 type rating. I would like to do the training in the United States but I called Transport Canada and they said that a Canadian examiner must do the checkride so that the rating can be added to my Canadian licence. I can't get a US ATP because I am only 21yrs old and in the US you must be 23yrs old. I was wonder if there was a way I could get the rating endorsed on the Canadian licence without bring an examiner from Canada.

Thanks

[flash8]

Why not do the training in Canada? I can recommend a great guy on the West Coast.... call Walt on 604-786-3835 or email [email protected], he's a good guy and speaks straight....

I know however the US is a little cheaper... but Walt offers quality :)

[Kerropi]

B737-3/4/500 Type Rating Training Courses
100% of successful type-rated students now employed with airlines
The next assessment dates for upcoming courses will be the 4th and
5th of August. To gain a place please email [email protected]


Just read above advertisement here on Pprune. Are they saying that if you have a type rating with them you are guaranteed succes of a job?? or do they also look for a possible job for you?

[trainer too 2]

They say that they have been succesful so far = no guarantee

[viking207]

Another nice thing to know is WHERE they got employed.

RGDS

Viking207

[Kubus1]

Hi,

I have a question.

Is it possible to get the 737 type rating without having the ATPL exams passed. I have a ATPL theoretical course but no exams yet.

I have a chance for a job but the require B737 type rating.

Can I get a rating with just CPL or do I need the ATPL exams passed first.

Thanks,

kubus1

[Skybound330]

Hi Kubus1,

There should be nothing holding you from doing the 737TR. With you CPL you are entitled to act as an F/O.

The ATPL subjects are only requirements of the company and is not JAA requirement.

Of course, you will need to have the subjects when you are about to upgrade.

cheers

[Kubus1]

Thanks Skybound330,

I am applying for a job in Poland and the local CAA is very funny about type ratings.

I have just spoken to them on the phone and they told me that according to JAR-FCL 1.250 those who fly as F/O with only CPL and the ATPL training course but no exams, do it illegaly and their licenses shall be revoked.

I dont know how to get around this wired situation. Poland is in EU and in JAR so the law should be the same.

Kubus1

[IRRenewal]

The ATPL subjects are only requirements of the company and is not JAA requirement.Not true I'm afraid. ATPL knowledge (in other words a pass in the ATPL ground exams) is a JAR requirement before you can act as a co-pilot on a multi pilot aircraft. The Polish CAA are correct.

I would assume that a lot of pilots who fly in Poland do so on foreign (non Polish) licences, and the Polish CAA doesn't always know whether they have passed the ATPL exams or not. It would be interesting if they do start investigating one day....

Gerard

[Skybound330]

Kubus, I'm sorry but I think IRR is probably right:

In short 1.250:

(a) pre-requisite conditions for training:

(1) have at least 100 hrs. pic
(2) ME rating
(3) MCC
(4) have requirement of JAR-FCL 1.285
(JAR-FCL 1.285 is about Theoretical Knowledge; describes that you need the theoretical knowledge before you do the ATPL(A) exam.)

(b) not relevant here.

(c) Here comes the interesting part:
The level of knowledge assumed to be held by holders of the PPL(A) or CPL(A) and typeratings for multi-pilot aeroplanes issued under requirements other than JAR-FCL will not be a substitute for showing complicance with the requirements of (4) above.

English is not my first language so I might be wrong but it seems you can interpret this in two different ways either:
1. The level of knowledge assumed to be held by holders of the PPL(A) or CPL(A) under requirements other than JAR-FCL.
And typeratings for multi-pilot aeroplanes issued under requirements other than JAR-FCL.

2. The level of knowledge assumed to be held by holders of the PPL(A) or CPL(A) (talking about JAR licenses).
And typeratings for multi-pilot aeroplanes issued under requirements other than JAR-FCL.

In case 1 you could do your TR on your JAR CPL.
In case 2, you will need the proper level of knowledge not being ATPL subjects.

Hopefully it doesn't ruin your plans anyway.
Good luck!

[cccc]

Hi all,

The title says it all.

Does anyone have experience in one of these 2 type ratings? Would you like to share this with me? Because I am planning to do one of these 2. Which one is better, in terms of finding a job right after th TR? Because apparently after finishing the line training with Astraeus, you are on your own to find a job. And when finishing the TR (without line training) for ATR42, you can find a job very fast, because SkyBlue Aviation delivers pilots to companies (or am I wrong?). How easy/difiicult is it to find a job after finishing the line training on a 737 with 100 hours experience?

In other words, all the information you can give, will be helpfull.

Cheers,
cccc

[Localiser Green]

Astraeus state that 90% of successful graduates from their 737 TR course find employment (presumably within 6 months or so of completion?).

I don't know how that proportion changes for those who take up the 100 hour line training option, one presumes the success rate would be even higher.

I know that Bond trained 737 SSTR pilots are now flying for the likes of Astraeus, bmi baby, Ryanair, flyglobespan, SkyEurope, Channel Express / Jet2, Air Asia, easyJet and Pegasus.

Ryanair in particular even state on their website that they accept applications from 737 Type Rated pilots with 100+ hours on type.

[Groundloop]

I know of someone who did the Astraeus 737 TR and 100 line flying who now flies with Ryanair. However, Ryanair required him to do a SECOND 737 TR with them first!

[justinabeavor]

If the statistics are anything to go by, I was one of 16 people that did the 737 TR program with Astraeus April 2004, all but two have found jobs. The two that did'nt had very dubious experience at the time the course started and were subsequently found to have been "creative" with their previous employment history.
We all kept in touch after the course and as another member posted, found work with SkyEurope, Thompson, Ryanair, Astraeus and Jet2.
Obviously I can't speak for subsequent courses, however I believe employment prospects were good for those that put the effort in.
As for this business of having to complete another Type rating to go to Ryanair, well, frankly, that's a load of old cobblers and the only way that may happen is if you performed so badly in the Ryanair sim check that they though you may need a brush up course to reach their standards.
I am employed, however, prior to getting this job I did Ryanair. Jet2 and Thompson sims and interviews, (which I may not have even got without the Type rating), and in all the cases I was told that they would do between 3 and 5 sim sessions for their SOP's and any difference training.
This is a fact in aviation, and not a reflection on the type rating course completed. In fact, Jet2 will still bond you £6000 even if you have 1000 hrs on type.
Two guys whom bought 100hrs subsequently got positions after only completing a few sectors and I believe their money was refunded in part, in my book, you can't get much fairer that that.
I and the 13 other successful people on my course would recommend this approach, but there seems to be a rather school boyish wingeing element on these forums that are hell bent on discouraging other peoples aspirations rather than accepting responsibilty for their own shortcomings.

[Speedbird744]

Whats the deal with salaries?

Under the Hubair 100 hr line program, do you get an allowance
per duty hour or month?
I know the line training portion with Germania Flug / FSB Berlin gives you an allowance during the 100 hours.

Surely its better to aim for a scheme that at least gives you a little pocket money while you fly?

[first_solo]

Within how many hours can you finish the 100 hr line training ??
What is most average?

[justinabeavor]

First_solo,

Guess you mean how long, weeks, months etc, would you expect it to take!

It took me 2-3 months, but if you were out of GTW or MAN, the sectors can be 5 hrs each way so thats just 20 sectors, i.e 10 trips, this time of the year with the BHX, LBA and EXT bases as well, it could be as much as 40 sectors, as the trips tend to be about 2 1/2 hours each sector. IMHO shorter sectors are better as you get the landings and approaches in, but it means doing the bookwork at home as there isn't a lot of time during the flight.

Quite a few guys get part time contracts after the 100hrs which helps, but again it's down to individual performance.

When I applied to Jet2 they said come back after the final line check (min 100hrs under JAR, unless you've flown similar types), that way they would only need to do 13 more sectors of line training to get me on-line.

As with all things, it's easier to find a job if you're in the environment, it's a small world.

[Mr R Sole]

min 100hrs under JAR, unless you've flown similar types

Never seen or heard that rule when it comes to a final line check. In my first job on props I did my line check in less than thirty hours.

[michaelknight]

RE: The Astraeus course and Ryanair, I too heard of a person doing a Astreaus type rating, then getting taken on by FR and having to do the initial type rating all over again. Apparently they were told they had not got enough JAR 25. I think only ball park 100 hours they had.

If he/she does badly in the sim in EMA, they won't be taken on.

MK

[Avenger]

Been at FR for a number of years and not heard any rumours like this, but I am aware of a person that did the initial ground school and sim but not the base training, so really had'nt completed the "type rating"to a level it could be endorsed on the license, they started again from scratch.

As far as I am aware, the amount of JAR type 25, i.e multi pilot types does not effect the type rating process , infact, if it was your first multi-pilot type you would have no JAR 25! But obviously it;s easier to do the sim if you are used to being in a multi crew environment, if not do a JOC first.

Obviously if you are prepared to pay for another type rating on the basis you get a job... well that's a whole different scenario.

Pays to read between the lines.

If you have solid experience on Jar 25 types, like 1500 heavy turbo prop then you buy a rating, you stand a reasonable chance "independently self typing" if you don't have this level of experience it may be worth attaching yourself to a company that can guarantee a job at the end of the process, assuming you get through selection in the first place.

[lovis9]

Hi all !

I almost agree with all you guys, I was thinking about a Type rating too ,
I must write my experience is" limited " 700h tt of bush flight turbine on c208,
the question is adressed to "justinabeavor"or to anyone that did a type rating.

I believe you when you say that almost all the pilot in your course had a job after the rating, as I believe the 90 % of pilot that do that get a job, but I am wandering now what is their employment story, total time ecc, as far as I can understand many companyes asked you the type r. but before they want the 1000 or 1500 h, than you are asked for a type rating,
So I told to myself not to start a type rating course, since after that with 700h tt, I would not have any chance, or very little chances to get a job.......want was you experience and the other guys experience before doing the course?

well I appreciate any suggestions and comments, it is two year I am looking for a job and now I am considering the type rating one more time as one of the last chances.....

Thanks to all!

LE.

[justinabeavor]

lovis9

I can't tell you the experience of all the people on the course, however, the three guys that went to SkyEurope were all very low hours , bewteen 250 and 400 TT. Two have since come back after getting about 500hrs 737 and now work in the UK.

I would say that over half the course had more than 1500hrs multi pilot time, ex Dash8, ATR, Fokker etc.

Two guys went to Ryanair, both were about 200 hrs TT, but I hear things have changed a bit in the last year and unless you are doing the type rating with them, they want more JAR 25 time.

There were about four Captains on the course from prop fleets that since have gone onto the 737 as Direct entry commands.

Hope this helps. don't talk yourself out of a job, you have as much chance as anyone.

[lovis9]

Thank you very much!

well I ll think about that, I onestly was thinking that without 1500 there would not be any jobs with a type rating, but I believe you there were many people with less total time in your course,
I am from Italy and here i would say the a320 is much well developed than a 737 but I prefer the 737 and I would be happy to work all over europe, I think that work with ryanair is as difficoult as is one of the best chances!

Thanks man!

Lovi.

[ant1]

justinabeavor,

I don't see the "TR+100h" entry level listed for FR (can't remember if it was on FR's or CAE's site)

Do you know if it's been removed?

Cheers

[Jetavia]

737 rated pilots should have a minimum of 100 hours on type.

Rank Type Hours Requirement Link
Captain B737 500+ hrs in command on type
Medium Jet 500+ hrs in command on type
First Officer B737 100+ hrs on type
JAR 25 aircraft 1,500 hrs on a JAR 25 aircraft
Cadet Fixed Wing 200 hrs

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about.php?sec=careers&ref=10002

[ant1]

Thanks Jetavia

I must have been temporarily blind because I went back to Fr's site and found the info.

I have 700h TT and 42 years :O. Do I stand a better chance (if any) applying at TR+100 level or as a low timer @ FR?

Thanks

[300ER]

Does anybody know if a B737 Type Rating can be done completely in the sim without having to do take-offs and landings in the aircraft? I believe there are zero flight time simulators which would be recognised by various govt.authorities.

If all sim training is posible it will certainly keep the cost down for obtaining the rating.

[Flyingsand]

I believe the ZFT 'base check' simulator session is only acceptable for a new rating when changing variant of an aircraft you currently have a rating for. eg 737 classic to 737 NG.

of course, I could be wrong.

[belowMDA]

I note thay you are from Australia so therefore either of the Qantas or Alteon 737 NG sims in Melbourne and Brisbane respectively are capable of providing this full type rating, without needing to do circuits in the actual aircraft. Having said that though, doing them in the aircraft would be bloody fun if it weren't for the fact that you were probably paying for them:}

[Gary Lager]

ZFT in the UK is only available to pilots who have certain minimum hours on a similar class of aircraft (eg B737/A320 etc). I believe the figure is somewhere between 1000-2000hrs.

So Flyingsand - not correct. I converted onto the B737 in a ZFT sim, without needing base training, and only 2500hrs on the A320.

BA/bmi/EZ/many other UK jet operators all have ZFT-capable sims, yet they still carry out base training details - why else would they, unless they had to in certain cases?

Also goes some way to explaining min hours reqt for companies like Virgin/BA Longhaul - think how much base training in a 777 would cost!

[scroggs]

Actually, Virgin does do base training on both the B744 and the A340, mainly because the landings requirement post-ZFT simulator training is bloody difficult to achieve on a longhaul operation. We don't always do it, and the 744, thanks to a number of 2-sector days in the programme, does it less than the A340, but we do bash the circuit from time to time, as observers at Shannon, Prestwick, Castle Donington, Brize Norton and Chateuroux will confirm.

Our hours requirement is simply down to the fact that a purely longhaul operation is no place to be learning your trade; you need to do that before you come to us.

Scroggs

[SIDSTAR]

300ER,

It all depends on which licence you want to put it on. JARs require experience as detailed in another post. As you're from OZ, I happen to know that CASA will put it on your Aussie licence without Base Training. However, I'm not sure what their conditions are - I just know that some friends had done the A320 rating this way, but all were fairly experienced pilots.

For safety sake before you part with hard-earned cash, talk to your local CAA and see what their requirements are. There's usually a requirement to fly the actual aircraft fairly soon after a ZFT rating - something around 2 to 3 weeks I think, in the JAA system.

Also ensure BEFORE you start any type rating training that your authority will accept that TRTO (Type Tating Training Organisation) for YOU. It's often not enough to know that the TRTO is approved by your CAA, it usually has to be specifically approved for each pilot or company as does the sim on which it's being done.

The whole area can be a minefield so it's best to tread cautiously and ensure you have all the approvals needed before parting with your cash. If you're thinking of doing the B737 rating look at PARC in Ireland - they advertise on Pprune - as they use only very experienced TREs who are current on the aircraft and will give you a lot more training than just the bare rating. They also have a 100% placement rate for their graduates. The cheapest ones are usually in the USA but cheapest is often not best.

Good luck with it - it's not easy!

[Gary Lager]

Thanks scroggs - didn't realise that was so. I have mates who have been told by BA that ZFT considerations were a factor when applying for LH fleets - but I suspect your comments are at least as significant in that case too.

GL

[james707]

FOR FAA B737, B757/767 A320 TYPE RATINGS BOND AVIATION IS APPROVED FOR ALL TRAINING TO BE DONE IN THE SIMULATOR NO BOUNCES REQUIRED IN THE AIRCRAFT WWW.BONDAVIATIONSERVICES.COM

[Sink Rate]

My experience of BA is that we don't do base training on our longhaul aircraft as the pilots that join us directly to fly them have already met the "minimum hours in a similar class of aircraft" requirement.

All our sims are ZFT, however we do recruit pilots onto the shorthaul fleets (Airbus, B737 and B757) that are required to go off and do the base training to meet CAA requirements.

The only recent exception was Concorde which was not a ZFT sim and thus required circuits and bumps to complete the type rating. Try paying that fuel bill.....:eek:

SR

[BillieBob]

Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.261(c)(2)
Approval of Aeroplane Zero Flight Time Type Rating Training Courses
1 APPROVAL OF ZERO FLIGHT TIME TRAINING (ZFTT)
For approval of a type rating course using ZFTT the following criteria will apply:
(a) The flight simulator to be used shall be qualified in accordance with JAR–STD and user approved by the Authority. User approval will only be given if the flight simulator is representative of the aeroplane flown by the operator.
(b) The flight simulator shall be fully serviceable during ZFTT (see JAR–STD).
(c) Additional take-off and landing exercises shall be included in the type rating course and at least six take-offs and landings shall be conducted under the instruction of a TRI(A).
(d) For an initial approval to conduct ZFTT an operator shall have held a JAR–OPS Air Operator's Certificate for not less than one year.
(e) Approval for ZFTT for a further type of aeroplane shall only be given if the operator has not less than 90 days operational experience of that aeroplane type.
(f) Approval for ZFTT will only be given to a training organisation provided by an operator or a training organisation having a specific approved arrangement with a JAR–OPS 1 Air Operator assuring that student pre-requisites are met and the type rating will be restricted to that operator until flying under supervision has been accomplished.
2 REQUIRED PILOT EXPERIENCE
ZFTT will only be approved for type rating training for pilots of multi-pilot aeroplanes who meet the minimum flying experience specified for the level of flight simulator to be used on the course, as follows:
(a) Pilots undertaking ZFTT shall have completed not less than 1500 hours flight time or 250 route sectors on a relevant aeroplane type if a flight simulator qualified to Level CG or C is used during the course. If a Level DG, Interim D or D qualified flight simulator is used the pilot shall have not less than 500 hours flight time or 100 route sectors on a relevant type;
(b) A relevant type of aeroplane is a turbo-jet, transport category aeroplane with a MTOM of not less than 10 tons or an approved passenger seating configuration for not less than 20 passengers.
(c) Instructor Qualification: For the additional specific take-off and landing exercises the instructor shall hold a TRI(A) rating.
3 LINE FLYING AFTER ZFTT
(a) Line Flying under supervision shall commence as soon as possible but not later than 15 days after completing the ZFTT;
(b) The first four take-offs and landings carried out by a pilot following ZFTT shall be flown under the supervision of a TRI(A) occupying a pilot’s seat.
Of course, these are only the rules that apply within the JAA. For other regimes you will need to direct your query to the relevant national authority.

[lowflare]

Hi,

I am off to Miami for B733 course. Any previous expiriences with Pan Am?

lowflare

[George452]

Look at www.b737.org.uk, its a good overall view of the lovely lady.

[james707]

www.bondaviationservices.com B737-200 through 900 BBJ A320 A330 B757/767 best prices around.:)

[Hairy Chest]

go to Intercockpit (LFT) in FRA the best quality training also the most expensive

[neil armstrong]

for an 737 rating you can go to:
http://www.skyblueaviation.com/index2.html

neil

[the lord]

Hey friends!!

Thank you very much for the answers, it helps me more. If anybody know more please post it. :D

See you :ok:

[InstructNoMore]

Anyone out there done the 737 assessment at Gatwick, what's involved? - profile etc???????:confused:

Iwdb great 2 know - thanks

[Macaw_1884]

I too would be interested to know the answer to this question.
There must be someone out there who can answer this.

[Aerofoil]

Hi All,
I was just wondering...
A) If one self funds a 737 type rating how long before you have to think about acting to keep it current?
B) What do you need to do to keep it current whilst looking for a job?
c) and MOST importantly at what sort of cost??

Many thanks
Foil

[capt. skidmark]

whats the difference in question a and b?

sm

[Aerofoil]

Anyone with any answers to the above it would be GREATLY appreciated.

regards

Foil :ok:

[TolTol]

whats the difference in question a and b?
sm

Question A is asking how long is the rating current for, question B is asking what he/she has to do to keep it current.

Sorry Foil, I dont know the answers, just wanted to explain the difference to sm.

[Aerofoil]

I did in fact edit the post however SM was being VERY helpful obviously! :mad:

Thanks anyway

[willby]

Hi Aerofoil,
My understanding from Lasors is that the rating is valid for 12 months and you can revalidate by doing a proficiency check within the three months preceding the date of expiry. However you also require 10 sectors flying experience and if you dont have this then you have to do one sector with a CAA examiner. This can be part of the profeciency test.
I am posting the link to Lasors and the section you require is F4.
Regards
Willby
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS.PDF

[LINGUS kaptan]

Hi ;-)
I am a 737-300/900 rated pilot.
I am holding a french-JAA licence.
I would like to extend my rating to the old 200 model.
Does anybody know a TRTO who can do that?
THX
Bye

[TRISTAR1]

Try European Aviation at Bournemouth

[LINGUS kaptan]

Thank you TRISTAR ;-)
I ll check it. ;)
Ciao

[Aerofoil]

Hi all

I'm just trying to gauge everyones view, preferably those who are actively within airline recruitment, of guy/gals with a 737 rating and 100hrs on type's likelyhood of gaining employment in the uk of lets say within 6 months of having this experience? I am not trying to start another debate on whether paying for a rating or hours is right or wrong, i and i am sure others are purely interested in informed peoples views on the likelyhood of employment within 6 months in the uk of gaining this experience.

Many thanks in advance

Foil :ok:

[low n' slow]

I'd give you a chance of 4-5%.
If you were talking turboprop I would give you a higher chance.
It also depends a bit on your overall experience. If you have heavy experience apart from those 100 hrs, that will make things different but I guess were talking 250 hrs light planes of which 15 hrs are ME and no multi crew experience? In that case you have my answer at the top...
/LnS

[AAIGUY]

Hi all
I'm just trying to gauge everyones view, preferably those who are actively within airline recruitment, of guy/gals with a 737 rating and 100hrs on type's likelyhood of gaining employment in the uk of lets say within 6 months of having this experience? I am not trying to start another debate on whether paying for a rating or hours is right or wrong, i and i am sure others are purely interested in informed peoples views on the likelyhood of employment within 6 months in the uk of gaining this experience.
Many thanks in advance
Foil :ok:


If you were willing to leave the UK with your B737 and a 100hrs , your odds are much higher. Probably around 80%.

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

It's just a bandwagon with to many people on it. Why not do something "radical" and get yourself an instructor rating?

[-8AS]

It never fails to amaze me the amount of people willing to pay tens of thousands of pounds in the hope that, at the completion of flight training, there chances of gaining emploment with a jet carrier is hugely improved by buying a type rating.

Remember, type ratings, especially for types such as Boeing and Airbus are hugely expensive and do not guarantee jobs. In fact far from it! If you have 250hrs and 100hrs experience on a 737 from a 'type rating provider' you will be very lucky to walk straight into a job at completion of the training. At that point you have 350 hours with a 737 type rating that will expire in 12 months.

Most airlines who employ what they call 'direct entry' or 'operation conversion' pilots require that you are current on type and have flown in the last 6 months on type. Also, their expectation of your performance during training is greatly heightened (in my company, a pilot with 2,000 hours off an ATR72 with no previous jet experience would be expected to complete line training on the 737NG at around 45 sectors. A 737NG rated pilot is expected to be ready for line check in 12!). Bearing in mind that most type ratings with 100hrs experience is provided by type rating providers like Astreus, the 100 hours you log are mainly in the cruise between the Middle East and UK!. Thus, very little in the way of handling. The company has no concern that if at the end of 100hrs you are not up to speed as they have filled their end of the bargain.

Thus, it is my humble opinion that a type rating tagged on to your licence at the end of your fATPL training is risky. I know that it has worked for some people and well done and good luck to them. However I think they are in the minority.

I agree with posts above recommending Flight Instructor Ratings. Such a move teaches you an aweful lot about yourself as a pilot and a lot about aviation. It also gets your logbook moving in the right direction, it keeps you current and some one pays you to fly. Quite a novelty after forking out hundred's of Pounds every time you go to aerodrome!

A flight instructor rating also means you can apply for jobs while actually working in the industry as a professional pilot. Means a lot to potential employers.

Just my two cents worth. It is at the end of the day still your life and your decision and I wish all well in whatever direction they move in their attempts to break into the aviaition industry!

[potkettleblack]

Why not leave flight instruction to people that actually want to teach and make a career out of it and those that wish to be commercial pilots can head off in another direction? That way we won't be subjected to the endless stream of FI's that are just waiting till something better comes along, can't be ar*ed getting out of bed or have huge egos captaining their spam cans and pointing out constantly how incompetent us students are as we have a whole 200 hours less than them.

Look go and be an FI if you want to. If you want to earn £10 an hour and get 300 hours a year living from hand to mouth in some godforsaken back water then good on you and all the best, but do it for all the right reasons and not just to log some more hours. But please don't get all bitter and twisted when you realise after 3 years that you are no further in getting that elusive first job than the rest of us.

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

I did the instruction thing myself to build hours for something "better." I can honestly say that every lesson I gave, I was doing my best for my students and never shafted any of them. If I'd have done it for long though, I'd probably have got all twisted and nasty; I've seen it happen. Without hour building instructors like myself there would simply not be enough instructors out there. For me, instructing swung open plenty of doors in a short space of time. I take it that you think the 737 TR is a better bet potkettleblack?

[low n' slow]

I completely agree with potkettleblack!
When I read "do something radical and get an instructor rating..." I laughed.
Thanks for a good chuckle mate!

At least getting a SSTR is in the right direction (even though it's perhaps not the best way). By going to instruct in the beginning of your career, you are effectively undermining the whole idea of quality training. I have during my training seen to many instructors just doing it for the hours and it's just not fair to anyone involved.

What this buissness really needs is more of the small operators doing airwork and photoflights in small AC so that we can restore the natural steppingstones that used to be there. And then try to lure the more experienced pilots into being instructors.

/LnS

[south coast]

what this business really needs is for newly qualified pilots not to expect to go straight to a big jet...

how about light piston twin air taxi, king airs, turbo-prop freight ops, ga and instructing.

then there is an order, a ladder to climb.

[wingnut-will]

what this business really needs is for newly qualified pilots not to expect to go straight to a big jet...

how about light piston twin air taxi, king airs, turbo-prop freight ops, ga and instructing.

then there is an order, a ladder to climb.

Quite right. My FTO was full of starry eyed young hopefulls like that. Even before my training I was thinking of my first job being flying Caravans or droppin' chutists in a An-2 over Estonia. When I get my CPL, i'll put an add out in Pilot:

"Pilot for hire. Will fly for food and water. Willing to
include floor scrubbing as part of duties."

:(

[-8AS]

I agree with posts suggesting that FI ratings should not be taken lightly as simply a stepping stone. It would be a great thing for the aviation industry as a whole if people wanted to train as Flight Instructors so that they can spend a career passing on knowledge to others. Unfortunately though, the carrer path is simply not there - job security, terms and conditons etc. Thus, Flight Instructing is an obvious and relatively straight forward path for developing ones flying career.

The route of Air Taxi and twins is a difficuilt one as many operators of such aircraft are very reluctant to give Single Pilot jobs flying pax to inexperienced pilots. Flying light twins around single pilot is a challenging job and thus employers tend to go for pilots with quite a few hours. In my experience, they usually prefer to employ ex instructors with a 1000 hours or so who have been conducting multi training. (One of the big reasons is the experience levels dictated to the company by insurance companies).

Thus, we get to the very familiar problem of how to get experience! Yes, aerial work is a path one can take but how many aerial photography companies are there really. Also, how many pilots does a parachute club really need?

So the difficuilt situation exists at the end of ones training. 250 hour fATPL and no experience. No local parachute club looking for pilots. No local aerial photography company. Aerial survey - no. Air Taxi company wants 1000hrs. The usual difficuilty of getting an interview for a regional F/O job. All seems desperate. Yet there is the Flight Instructors rating. Something that keeps your career moving. And most peolpe who become FI are very determined to succeed and thus put a lot of effort and dedication into instructing.

Yes it is a shame that just as Instructors get to a high level of skill in their job they move onto regionals, air taxi etc but unfortunately that is the reality for the training indstry. Such a discussion is really the topic for another thread. People will still make their own decisions in the pursuit of flying. There is no one guaranteed path to the dizzying heights of Jets. My only real advice to people is don't give up, keep your log book moving any way you can and enjoy your time in General Aviation - its where you do real flying!

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

Back to the original request by Aerofoil..... I remember a post by someone under the username of Mercenary_Pilot, just a few weeks back. He'd purchased a 737TR. It has not got him a job and he feels that it's damaging his prospects with TP operators. It's worth a read!

[Pstatic]

Everybody who visits this forum has their own opinion on typeratings. Most people talk about the 737 or 320. But what about the 757 with 100 HRS through Bond/Astraeus?!
The discussion about ratings is a long one which I'm not looking to start again. Though one thing seems certain: You do need that rating, preferrably with some hours on it!!!
With regard to the FI rating: All the FI's at my school spent 3-4 years instructing hoping they would be hired after that - realising that was not going to happen. Then they all went out and paid their own typerating and were all hired instantly. Ofcourse they all had in excess of 1000 HRS. All the piston HRS got them nowhere eventhough they were all very talented!!!

[notneo]

Do you believe it was just the type rating that got them the job ?

Or maybe a mix of dedication to training, hours, and contacts made afterspending years in the industry.

Come on ??

[Pstatic]

Do you believe it was just the type rating that got them the job ?

Or maybe a mix of dedication to training, hours, and contacts made afterspending years in the industry.

Come on ??

Sure it was. In combination with the typerating!!!

If you read the question that is asked it is wether to buy a rating. Some say yes while others suggest going down the FI path. This is what I'm commenting on:D

[notneo]

Well I think it would have been a combination of the type rating, contacts and hours built as an Instructor. Your friends situations are not the same as someone with their CPL and just a type rating is what I was getting at.

[Dried ears]

I think he just said that.

[DeltaT]

To answer the original question, no, I don't think TR+100hrs will get you a job anymore, probably not even overseas.
The one airline that I know that would accept 100hrs on type is Ryanair, but thats a gamble for 1 airline.
The bar has been raised over time.
When it was scarce, having a type rating would get you a job.
Then time on type would get you a job as it was one better, first we saw 100hrs, then upto 300hrs.
So now we see most jobs advertised needing 500hrs on type.
The bar just keeps going higher and higher.

To be a complete hippocrite, I bought a 737 rating over a year ago. Just as I started the rating the airline I did it with and aiming for raised their experience requirement of entry. Despite building up some 60hrs post rating time in the sim to keep current (free), still no job with anyone.
Yes, I have tried the other end of the spectrum with close to 1000 hours Instructing, with no step in the right muilti direction eventuating.
And just to answer the purists out there of the 'something else' variety, I also have a Science Degree.
Would I do the rating again, yes I think I would, for the pure satisfaction of proving I could do it and knowing I could do it all along, despite being told otherwise. Expensive, yes, but as I look down the barrel of giving away flying, at least I can say I did reach the level I always aspired to.

Getting a job in aviation is about having all the ticks in the right boxes, and then either being in the right place at the right time, or knowing someone.

[hixton]

I would say most of it is to do with `if your face fits`.
Think about it, we must have all flown with someone with all the boxes on paper ticked but they were just a complete ***** of a person!
I know I have and the atmosphere is just bad.

[potkettleblack]

Hixton - if you have been to Gatwick (or any of the exams centres for that matter) it is a real eye opener and you see loads of oddballs. Mind you it can be quite uplifting if your having a down day.:)

[WhiteFly]

Hey all,

I have finally made it after 3 years ( working all kinds of crappy jobs ) and iv been sponsored by an airline to do my type rating for the 737!

Although there is about a 30% fail in the Simulator so I would like anyone with a rating or so to give me some basic pointers and what to do and what to look for cause I dont want to let this great chance go by...

Any help would be most appreciated.

Thanks

[flyfish]

Firstly, congrats on getting a great result.

The advice above is spot on and there are loads of web sites to obtain all that information
I have sent you an email that may be of help to you, something I wrote the other day in fact, to someone else who asked me the same question. (Not that I am any kind of expert) just have recently completed one.
Hope you find it useful.

All the best

Flyfish

[Callsign Kilo]

Haven't done a TR, but I understand www.b737.org.uk is a worthy site.

Best of luck

CK

[Human Factor]

Also some useful stuff at www.smartcockpit.com.

[small_dog]

Good work on getting onto the type rating course!
If possible, try to get hold of a paper bomber (an A2/A1 sized picture of the cockpit mounted on card) and a copy of the panel scan flows (these are lists which guide you around the cockpit, preparing it for various stages of flight so there will be a scan for setting up the cockpit initially, then another one to prepare for engine start, then another for after engine start, etc etc, in my company, the scan flows are in the operations manual). The scan flows are done from memory and the essential items are then rechecked using a challenge and response checklist (of which only the responses are memorised). If you get familiar with the panel scans early on, it will save you time in the sim (as you will already know where the switches are located and what you are meant to do with them) and it also make you feel more comfortable as everything wont be totally new the first time you step into the simulator. It is also one less thing to learn in the evenings after the sims, thus you'll free up time and capacity for learning other new stuff.
If possible, try to learn the SOP standard call outs as well for the various different approaches. Again, getting these squared away as soon as possible will free up time between sims for absorbing other stuff, it also looks like you're making an effort early on and the sooner they are 2nd nature, the better as it frees up capacity whilst in the sim.
As mentioned previously, learn the memory items from the QRH and the limitations.
Prior to starting my type rating, I read the technical manuals but, try as I might, I couldn't really absorb it (it just seemed to go in one ear and the out the other). It made a lot more sense during the groundschool phase, but at home prior to starting, it wouldn't go in. If I had a chance to do it again, I'd focus on the stuff mentioned above and leave the technical stuff for the groundschool phase. However, you may find it easy to understand and follow the manuals before you start, and if so, they may be worth a read :ok:
Make sure you start the type rating well rested and relaxed though. It is a pretty intense period of time so, taking into account everything written above, the most important thing is not to start it burnt out and knackered already.
Well done once again,
All the best
SD

[WhiteFly]

Thanks for all the good advice!

I hope i have time to look into all this!

[first_solo]

Hi all!

Can somebody tell me what is the best option for me.
My type rating b737 is valid untill 30-11-06 including my IR (SE and ME)
and my SEP was valid till 30-10-06

What is for me the best and more important the cheapest way to renew or re-validate all licences??

Thank you,

F_S

[Mercenary Pilot]

Hi first_solo I guess it all depends on where you are up to in your career.

I wouldn't let the SP/IR lapse. I'm guessing you are a low timer looking for a first job so the SP/IR is invaluable, alot of light aircraft owners like to have access to an Instrument rated pilot for trips abroad. So in that respect it would be good to keep you SEP valid also.

Personally I don't fly singles anymore, if I want to go for a jolly I have access to a brand new twin for cost (lucky guy right?:ok:). I think its daft that the MEP renewal doesn't cover SEP but thats just me.

I have 2 type ratings but I don't get to fly the 737 at the moment(:{) so I probably won't renew it. As long as I go for a sim check in the next 5 years (which I will because I had to pay) or 7 years if I don't mind doing the tech exam again it will stay on my licence.

I don't think any potential employers would be that bothered if your rating wasn't current, I can't imagine the cost of a sim check would stretch their budget too much.

The rules are due to change in respect to IR's. In the future, a MP/IR checks will also renew you SP/IR but until then sadly you will have you have to do them seperatly. Just as a side note, when this rule comes in, it would work out cheaper for me to renew everything in a 737 sim rather than an FNPT2!

[DVR4G.DEP]

www.smartcockpit.com

Is there one like that for the A320, that allow you to practice questions and submit if for marking?

I know of the following site only www.airbusdriver.net

Thanks

[RJELLISUK]

Hi all,

Anyone know where I can get hold of a copy of the 737NG computer based training cd-rom? Start ryanair type rating 1st jan so want to do some prep!!!!

Regards,

RJELLISUK:8

[Jinkster]

any feedback questions for classic/ng type ratings?

[grumman_driver]

just found a quote on www.typeratings.org stating the price as 23.500EUR Is it current? Has anybody done the course lately? Worth the money?

[chrislikesblue]

I am interested in doing a 737-200 rating(on a JAA license).Anyone could recommend a school?(reasonable price ofcourse!)

[smith]

It always amazes me when people ask for type ratings on rare, old, obsolete or uncommon types. You must have your own reasons but still amazes me if you're going to pay for it yourself.:confused: