white poppy

[cynicalint]

Is anyone else a little perturbed by the hijacking of rememberance by the white poppy brigade?
I thought the poppy was an ecumenical, race, creed, belief free symbol devoid of any bias to enable us to support survivors and remember those who fell - not to show our support for war etc.
We really should let these tree-hugging conscience-ridden idoits how out of step their actions are.

After all, the only ever thing saved by pasificm is a conscience.

[Combine Harvester]

I couldn't agree more. Heard some ecclesiastical loon being interviewed by the doris on the Today programme this morning. I was so incensed by his spouting of utter bolleaux that I changed channels to avoid a heart attack. Not an attack on ecclesiastical types - I am a church-goer myself. However, I have always been firmly of the opinion that whilst the White Poppy brigade are perfectly entitled to their views, but they should not try to take over the RBL Poppy Appeal; they are two entirely separate causes and should be de-conflicted accordingly.

[Top Right]

CI and CH,

Fully agree. Heard same Today interview.

If they want to make a point - fine. But do it on a different date, say 6 months away and protest against war. Just don't try and demean a sincere national period of reflection to those that have gone before - too soon.

[Blacksheep]

What is saddens me most is that those who served and died were fighting in defence of the very free speech that allows them to publicly air their views. Many of those who died were conscientious objectors who carried the stretchers.

Its also sad to hear of any ecclesiastic being, what is in effect, disrespectful towards the dead and disabled. The Earl Haig fund is responsible for work that ought to be supported without reservation by the church.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

I couldn't agree more. Heard some ecclesiastical loon being interviewed by the doris on the Today programme this morning.

It had a similar effect on me too. I hate having to drive when I'm angry. They still have this mind-set that the red poppy somehow glorifies war. He went on about Jesus encouraging us to turn the other cheek and his peaceful sacrifice on the Cross!

The Meek shall inherit the Earth (if that's OK with the rest of you, though).

[D-IFF_ident]

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/umbrella/inspiration.htm

Flanders Poppies are red.

[pr00ne]

cynaclint,

“hijacking” Oh Come on The White Poppy has been around for over 70 years. It is nearly as old as the Red Poppy.


Blacksheep,

The Red Poppy was inspired by the First World War. A War that had NOTHING to do with defending freedom, democracy or free speech.

Why do you get so agitated by the White Poppy?

A Red Poppy to remember the fallen and support charity is a terrific idea, when people start linking it to defending freedom and democracy then I have a real problem with it. The vast majority of those folk the Poppy remembers were NOT defending anyone’s freedom!

[Combine Harvester]

While we are on the subject of poppies, I notice that the inscription on the black centre of the poppy now reads 'Poppy Appeal' rather than 'Haig Fund'. Is this innocent modernisation or an effort by the RBL to distance itself from the PC lobby that has been quick to demean the efforts and achievements of Earl Haig? Am I holding on too tight?

[Archimedes]

The 'Haig Fund' wording has been gone for quite some time now. IIRC, the change came about because few people knew what the Haig Fund was, whereas just about everyone knew that the Poppy Appeal remembered/aided veterans.

[Blacksheep]

The Red Poppy was inspired by the First World War.So it was. But it has come to represent more than that in the intervening years.
Why do you get so agitated by the White Poppy?
I'm not agitated by the white poppy, annoyed perhaps, but not agitated - what I actually said is that it saddens me: saddens me that there are those who choose to turn an act of rememberance into a political protest against war. It is they who are the agitated.

The rest of us remember the sacrifices of those who paid the ultimate price and that too is a protest against war. Stand silent for two minutes on the 11th and think about it. My father weeps quietly when he remembers the fallen, for some of them fell beside him.The vast majority of those folk the Poppy remembers were NOT defending anyone’s freedom!The vast majority of those who fell were doing their duty. Please don't disparage their intentions; my father is pretty clear on why he volunteered for the navy in 1939.
Aged 16...

[Whirlygig]

The vast majority of those folk the Poppy remembers were NOT defending anyone’s freedom!
Really? Well, I never knew that. :ugh:

The Poppy Appeal and Remembrance Sunday, although started because of the First World War also encompasses the Second World War and subsequent wars/battles/conflicts.

Surely we don't have to give history lessons to point out the causes and effects of various wars.

Cheers

Whirls

[Fg Off Max Stout]

The Red Poppy was inspired by the First World War. A War that had NOTHING to do with defending freedom, democracy or free speech.

Irrelevant, IMHO. The Poppy is about the individuals, soldiers, sailors and airmen, who paid the ultimate price in duty for this country, and those who were left behind. The reasons behind conflicts are a matter for politicians not servicemen. I note that no organization has ever seen fit to issue a poppy for politicians, but if they did I would suggest the colour brown.

Those who choose to wear a white poppy as some sort of trendy, 'stop the war' statement should have their white poppy shoved firmly up their arse. Likewise, the PC fluffists and communist councillors who seek to oppose Remembrance Day (because it is not 'inclusive', I have heard) need to have a look at history and realise that those who gave their lives in defence of our country include, men and women, all nationalities of the Empire, Commonwealth and beyond, all religions, all ethnic groups (apart from those damn Eskimos), the disabled, all age groups and, I dare say, homosexuals (heaven help us). You wouldn't get this much diversity at one of Cherie Blair's publicly funded Chequers dinner parties!

[cynicalint]

cynaclint,

“hijacking” Oh Come on The White Poppy has been around for over 70 years. It is nearly as old as the Red Poppy.

Why do you get so agitated by the White Poppy?

A Red Poppy to remember the fallen and support charity is a terrific idea, when people start linking it to defending freedom and democracy then I have a real problem with it. The vast majority of those folk the Poppy remembers were NOT defending anyone’s freedom!

Yes, it is a terrific idea; and the monies raised from the sale of RED poppies goes towards supporting those in need as a result of service in HM armed forces, be they servicemen or dependents, that governments of all hues from at least 1914 either cannot or will not support. White poppies do not support this aim and could even detract from it. By all means have white poppies, but not at this time of year - and where do the proceeds from the white poppies go? I don't know but it is unlikely to go to deserving causes that have arisen from conflict. The red poppy is a non-political symbol of rememberance and not a glorification of war; the white poppy is a political symbol of pacifism and is aimed at denigrating all wars, just or not, and to push it at this time of detracts from the act of rememberance.

[tonkatechie]

It doesn't matter what colour poppy you wear - Rememberance Day isn't about the politics of past or present wars, it's about the people involved. I've been fortunate enough to not lose any close friends or family, but coming from a military family, and serving myself, I take time to imagine what it must have been like for my Grand-pa to be in a trench on a Burmese hill, getting shot at. Or whether there's anyone thinking of his pals who didn't get to come home.
Let them wear whatever damn colour poppy they want, as long as it's for the right reasons - to say 'thanks' and to try and make sure that we try not to repeat the mistakes from our past.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

cynaclint,"The Red Poppy was inspired by the First World War. A War that had NOTHING to do with defending freedom, democracy or free speech". "The vast majority of those folk the Poppy remembers were NOT defending anyone’s freedom"!

OooOOoo! don't start me off! So gallant little Belgium telling some pointy hatted gimp that he couldn't stamp over their land to get at Johnny Frog who, in turn, was standing up against some other Teutonic sword waver settling a family insult, wasn't a stand for freedom then? I also don't recall "freedom of speech" featuring as a battle cry for the second lot.

[pr00ne]

Of course it wasn't-go read a history book or two about the origins of the squabble between a bunch of related monarchs that cost the lives of millions.

If you don't see the Second World War as a fight for democracy then you live in a VERY peculiar world!

[gar170]

The red poppy has no political or religious meaning and never should. when i wear the poppy it is also for all the Sikhs and Hindu's and other religions that fought for the commonwealth who paid the ultimate price.
and as far as i am concerned i was disgusted that the media even gave this t****r the air time.
but then again if it was not for the ones we are remembering then he may not have had the chance.

[Combine Harvester]

Gar,

Succinctly put. As someone that once said,

"Although I disagree intensely with what you say, I am prepared to die to defend your right to say it."

Don't remember who though, sorry.

Tonka,

WRT your point about the colour of the poppy worn not mattering, I think it does. The red ones are worn as an act of remembrance for those allied Servicemen and women killed in both Little Unpleasantnesses and other conflicts since, whereas wearers of the white variant do so to make a political point against war; whilst it may be a worthy cause, the white poppy should not be piggy-backed onto the RBL appeal as it causes exactly the friction we have read on this thread and detracts from the whole purpose of the Poppy Appeal.

CH

[ShyTorque]

cynaclint,
“hijacking” Oh Come on The White Poppy has been around for over 70 years. It is nearly as old as the Red Poppy.
Blacksheep,
The Red Poppy was inspired by the First World War. A War that had NOTHING to do with defending freedom, democracy or free speech.
Why do you get so agitated by the White Poppy?
A Red Poppy to remember the fallen and support charity is a terrific idea, when people start linking it to defending freedom and democracy then I have a real problem with it. The vast majority of those folk the Poppy remembers were NOT defending anyone’s freedom!

The people who fell believed they were.
The campaign is about them, not as support of government policy of the time. I find it appalling that people want to turn a traditional time of remembrance such as this into a political statement.

[Flatus Veteranus]

[QUOTE=pr00ne;2954595] The Red Poppy was inspired by the First World War. A War that had NOTHING to do with defending freedom, democracy or free speech.

I had the impression that GB entered WW1 in fulfilment of a defence pact with Belgium and WW2 to honour a Treaty with Poland. Both these countries were democracies (of a sort) at the time - as was the UK. In no way could Germany under either Kaiser Wilhelm or Adolph Hitler be described as "liberal democracies" . It is perfectly reasonable to describe both wars as being "in defence of freedom". The Hunnish hordes rampaged across Europe twice in a generation and were treated with great generosity by the Allies in 1945.

My dear old Mum lost both her brothers in France in 1915/16 and a fiancé in the RFC . The experience was deeply traumatic and she was most reluctant to talk about them. She visited her brothers' graves once in about 1922 and could never bring herself to do it again. As for the glorification of war, I was with my mother when I was aged 10 on 3 Sep 1939 and listened with her to Chamberlain's broadcast announcing our declaration of war on Germany. The tears were streaming down her face. If anyone had dared to question the value of her brothers' and fiancé's sacrifice (like that adenoidal little twerp on Radio 4 this am) she would have torn them limb from limb. And she was big and feisty enough to do it! :mad:

[teeteringhead]

Not sure who said this but ....... It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press.

It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the soldier, not the agitator, who has given us the freedom to protest.

...... it seems apposite to this debate.

[jimgriff]

I may be wrong (I usually am) but I tought that the white poppy was to remember the innocent (non military) casualties of war and that the red poppy was a fundraiser for the Earl Haig fund to help ex servicemen and women. If some fluffy peacemonger has hijacked the white poppy as a symbol of anti warism, then he has it wrong.
I have even heard that there are purple poppies out this year to raise funds fr animals killedin conflict!:uhoh:

[lancs]

I knew nothing of this White Poppy thing until today, so:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_poppy

"The White Poppy is used as a symbol of peace, worn as an alternative to the red poppy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_poppy) for Remembrance Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Day). It is worn to remember all victims of war."

Apparently been going since 1933, although invented in 1926, and is now distributed / used as a fund raiser for Peace Pledge Union (http://www.whitepoppy.org/ (http://www.whitepoppy.org/) and http://www.ppu.org.uk/).

Their pledge :yuk:: "War is a crime against humanity. I renounce war, and am therefore determined not to support any kind of war. I am also determined to work for the removal of all causes of war."

The BBC news site suggests that people be offered the white poppy as an alternative to the proper one... I wonder how many people realise WTF their money goes towards with one of those, instead of supporting the RBL.

It sickens me. Glad I'm not in the country, or I might get caught out being nasty to anybody I see with one of these stupid things. Why do some people have to f*ck with any kind of tradition / respect we used to have....

Grr... </rant>

[Tartan Giant]

I am with Fg Off Max Stout and his idea where white poppies should end up!:D
RED POPPIES and for those wanting a white one - have a white feather too.
A Red Poppy to remember the fallen and support charity is a terrific idea, when people start linking it to defending freedom and democracy then I have a real problem with it. The vast majority of those folk the Poppy remembers were NOT defending anyone’s freedom!
I hope you choke on your "real problem" then mate! You have one hell of a :mad: mentality.
Peter Thompson, chairman of the Ipswich branch of the Royal British Legion and the Poppy Appeal organiser for Ipswich and district, said: “The red poppy doesn't promote war in any way. It's red for blood and has a black centre for grief." :D
http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_06119altern.shtml
Explained Mr Barrow:“However, the language and imagery about ‘fighting for freedom’ and ‘the glorious dead’ which often accompanies war remembrance reinforces a belief that violence is redemptive. We think that is a dangerous idea, that it contradicts the central Christian message, and that it is the root of a lot of our problems in today’s violent world.”
Ekklesia says that the white poppy has a universalism:yuk: [ so "world war" ONE and TWO did not represent this universalism crap ] which the red one lacks for some people – it is not used in Germany, [ now I wonder WHY that is then - couldn't be because they LOST both wars?] and it is not understood by many Muslims, [then they need educating] for example.
Wear the RED POPPY.
We WILL Remember them.
TG

[henry crun]

All these years I have believed that the red poppy was chosen because it grew profusely in Flanders during the war when the ground was churned up, thus exposing all the dormant seeds to light so they could germinate.

I do not remember reading anything about white poppies being associated with WW1.

[jindabyne]

prOOne

The Red Poppy was inspired by the First World War. A War that had NOTHING to do with defending freedom, democracy or free speech ------
A Red Poppy to remember the fallen and support charity is a terrific idea, when people start linking it to defending freedom and democracy then I have a real problem with it. The vast majority of those folk the Poppy remembers were NOT defending anyone’s freedom!

What appallingly insensitive words - and, coming from someone with your background, to me they have an even greater distasteful ring. I trust you will heed the contributions of roghead, Flatus and GBZ and others. Words fail.

[The Helpful Stacker]

prOOne
What appallingly insensitive words - and, coming from someone with your background, to me they have an even greater distasteful ring. I trust you will heed the contributions of roghead, Flatus and GBZ and others. Words fail.

I have to agree.

Pr00ne - I must say although I'm not surprised at your comments, which may just be the usual trolling that you seem to take pleasure in, I do feel they are very poorly though out even for you.

Sod it, I don't usually resort to such words but you may be the most despicable and disingenuous person I've ever encountered on an internet forum and I am ashamed that someone with such skewed views and seemingly disrespectful opinions on the beliefs of those who have fallen before could ever have worn the uniform of this country.

[pr00ne]

"but you may be the most despicable and disingenuous person I've ever encountered on an internet forum"


Then you lead a very VERY sheltered existence!

[eagle 86]

Those such as pr(G)00ne can never get a grip on reality - they are usually single issue beings who are so obsessed with their limited, passionate beliefs that they are blind to the real world.
I note he is supposed to be ex-RAF FJ - probably realised early that he would not have the courage to meet the call when it came. The fact that he now claims to be a lawyer does not surprise me in the least.
We can take comfort in the fact that he and his ilk are in a very small minority.
GAGS
E86

[pr00ne]

I think you'll find that it's the majority old chap!

Oh, and it's a Barrister NOT a lawyer...............................

Yes, I flew in the days of the Cold War, held nuclear QRA and never deployed anywhere apart from Deci, Valley and Luqa.

As to not having the courage to meet the call, care to step outside?

[eagle 86]

My, my super sensitve aren't we - your public profile shows that you are a LAWYER!
A word of advice OLD chap - in this modern world it is very dangerous to ask a complete stranger to step outside - you might find a shiv between your ribs!!
GAGS E86

[Skeleton]

Sickens me.. care to step outside... your hard, hiding behind a internet forum.

We WILL remember them, and we will be weraing our medals and a red poppy.

How many you got? Do we care?

Lets just show respect to our fallen friends.

[Whirlygig]

Ah well, that's the thing about the internet; for all we know he could be a blonde mother-of-two!

Cheers

Whirls

[cynicalint]

As to not having the courage to meet the call, care to step outside?


The last refuge of a boundar sah!
The values of his clients seem to have rubbed off and he has apparently lost those fine qualities imbued in him by per ardua ad astra!

[doubledolphins]

In England and Wales the centre has said Poppy Fund for a while now. In Scotland it still says Haig Fund.(At least it did last year. Not been north of the border this year.) Scottish poppies also have four petals as opposed to the normal two. All the money goes to the same place, the RBL.

The white poppy money just goes to making more white poppies.

The current Earl Haig is a poppy seller ,"some where in England" and has no objection to the name change.

[Brian Abraham]

Barrister or lawyer - not something I'd brag about or broadcast to the world. Thats where we get our ill deserved politicians from. Best to keep the gene pool as small as possible. I'd drain the pool if I could find the plug. :E

[eagle 86]

C'mon g00ne you're not running deep and silent are you - don't disappoint us - just when I thought you may have a smidgen of courage!!
Got to agree with BA though!
GAGS
E86

[GANNET FAN]

On a slightly different thread, my hat is off to John Snow who refuses to wear a poppy on TV because he was told to. But wears it with pride off screen.

[John Purdey]

Am I not right in thinking that it is from the White Poppy that opium is derived (especially in Afghanistan)

[Kitbag]

Sorry JP, papaver somniferum (the sleep inducing poppy?) comes in several colours inc white & redhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Koeh-102.jpg/225px-Koeh-102.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Koeh-102.jpg)

image taken from wikipedia

[Maufe]

So have I got this right? Red poppies are worn out of respect for those who were killed or maimed fighting to maintain the rights of freedom of speech and thought, and anyone who thinks otherwise should have their lights punched out?

[Combine Harvester]

Maufe,

Succinct and to the point old boy. I couldn't have put it better myself.

CH

[xraf]

Just found this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6133312.stm

Nothing to do with the glorification of war, all to do with supporting the survivors and their families - Just like we always knew it was!!:ugh:

The PPU (white poppy group) sell theirs to gather funds to support themselves. Fair enough (free speech etc) but their intervention with Red poppy's implies and is intended to that it is an alternative method of donating your hard earned for teh same reason which it definitely IS NOT!

Dont be fooled.:=

Regards

Xraf

[dakkg651]

Does wearing a white poppy mean the same as wearing a white feather then?

PS. prOOne I wish you could have met my Dad. He would have met you outside and explained what he spent six years fighting for!

[tall and tasty]

Ah well, that's the thing about the internet; for all we know he could be a blonde mother-of-two!why the dig? even on a profound subject as this is?

White or red the white poppy gives the impression of purity the red was supposed to represent the loss of blood from the fallen.

The flowers do indeed grow and did in flanders and are extremely delicate too so show how life can be whiped out in a second, was another reason I was lead to believe they became the symbol of Remebrance.


PS. prOOne I wish you could have met my Dad. He would have met you outside and explained what he spent six years fighting for!I would agree with that statement, anyone that has been in action, seen it or affected by it would not stand up and even dam a single person that gave their life for us to live a free existance.
TnT

[MrBernoulli]

White poppies be damned.
Pacifists go and live in Iraq.

[Confucius]

The Meek shall inherit the Earth

But how long will they hang on to it?

[Colonal Mustard]

Saw this post elsewhere.....thought it will bring this back on track, i dont agree the white poppy should be used on armistice day.......by all means use it later in the year for national peace day or somethin....


Service personnel They’re not the Rambo-Commando-G.I. Joes that we see on TV.
Service personnel are human beings who have a very difficult job. There will be no political rant in this editorial. You will see only respect from me today.


Service personnel put aside their personal beliefs and focus on the task that they have been assigned.

Service personnel are loyal to their comrades, commanders and country.


Service personnel put their lives and sanity on the line in order to complete the tasks that they have been assigned.


Service personnel know that their next assignment may mean their death, yet they still get out of bed each morning and do their duty.

Regardless of how we feel about the tasks that they have been assigned,
Service personnel need to know that we appreciate the sacrifices that they make.

There are two ways that we can show our thanks. One is to confront them and tell them that our thoughts are with them. The other is to be silent and reflect. On the eleventh minute of the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month, we shut our pie holes for two minutes to reflect on the sacrifices that they have made for us. We sympathize with the families who have lost loved one defending our ideals. We share the pain of those who watched their comrades die in their arms.

We may not always agree with the mission, but we have to agree on one thing: that these men and women deserve our respect. They have a difficult job to do. Sometimes it’s too much even for them. Let’s never forget the people who defend us, the people who do our governments’ dirty work while our politicians and citizens sit in comfort.

Let me leave you with a poem by Lieutenant John McCrae, a Canadian combat physician who wrote of the hell that he witnessed at the Battle of Ypres.

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

[eagle 86]

C'mon g00ne you must have something to say - or as I thought - no courage!!
GAGS
E86

[mr ripley]

An interesting letter in the local paper:

http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/letters/display.var.1015905.0.remembrance_farce.php

After making my blood boil, I consoled myself with the thought that everybodies sacrifice ensures that the correspondent is free to air his views.

[MostlyModerate]

and where stands the BBC in all this ?

[MR12]

Not sure who said this but ....... ...... it seems apposite to this debate.

Full text on page eight of the Remembrance thread and never a truer word said. If I had my way they'd be printed on every desk diary in parliament, the Treasury, Main Building and Number Ten and inscribed in enormous gold letters at the heart of the parliamentary chamber.

Along with these, perhaps :

The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. (Einstein)

and my last words on the subject, which are Orwell's :

We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

[advocatusDIABOLI]

A Bit off topic, but:

If you are current service, do you wear medals at civilian Remembrance Services? Honestly, it's so long since I've attended one, I can't remember.:\

Honest and accurate replies please!

Oh, I'll be wearing a Red Poppy.... is that OK?

Advo

[Brian Abraham]

Received a film clip some days ago from the US where some group of anti war protesters attend the funerals of lads and lasses killed in ops and cheer the fact that the individual met the fate that he/she did. The gratifying part was that also in attendance where ever the protesters turn up is a group of literally hundreds of Harley bikers who not only ride in the procession but at the grave side encircle the gathering and stand to attention with an upraised US flag so forming an effective 15 foot high barrier. Guess they cant stop the noise of chanting etc tho.

[eagle 86]

As you will remember from 40 years or so ago BA this is the problem with these bottom feeders - their grip on reality is so tenuous they cannot differentiate between those who, regardless of personal beliefs, answer the call and those that made the political decisions to commit in the first place. This is why they are lesser beings than the rest of us.
GAGS
E86

[pr00ne]

"eagle 86 C'mon g00ne you must have something to say - or as I thought - no courage!!"

Said all I want to say thanks, calling me names or questioning my credibility or courage is not going to change my mind or my opinions of the ethics of the First World War.

I didn't say anywhere that I oppose the Red Poppy or that I am a pacifist, and for all those who are getting all excited about the Second World War, read what I said about it, I wear a Red Poppy principally for those who SERVED and died in WW2, a genuine fight for freedom.

Brian Abraham,

Your post both raises my hackles and gladdens me, while I thoroughly dissaprove of the war in Iraq, to treat the family of anyone killed in that conflict in such a manner is appalling, never thought I'd be proud of a bunch of Hells Angels!

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

But how long will they hang on to it?

Read inside the brackets!

[GlosMikeP]

I'm finding this a quite unusual thread.

The only poppy worthy of being worn is red in my view. I can see no justification for a white one, despite all the arguments put; but in the interest of freedom, not least of speech, I suppose I'm prepared to tolerate it at arm's length on a live and let live basis. That doesn't mean anyone who wears one has my respect. Indeed they do not.

That said, there is perhaps just one instance - and I do mean perhaps, for I am not completely convinced - where someone might wear a white poppy and we should hold them in the same regard and respect as those of us who have and do Serve and wear red ones.

The one instance is where someone concientiously objected to bearing arms but took all the same risks as those who do or did, by enlisting to Serve as doctors, nurses, stretcher bearers, padres and the like and did not flinch from front line operational service when called to it. They are as deserving of our remembrance and respect as any who bore arms: they took the same risks.

This leaves the category of those concientious objectors who simply refuse to do anything to support their fellow contrymen. They are cowards and to be derided, ignored and forgotten at the first opportunity.

My first and last post on this thread - that is to say, my views won't change so you can like them or lump them.

[TMJ]

A Bit off topic, but:

If you are current service, do you wear medals at civilian Remembrance Services? Honestly, it's so long since I've attended one, I can't remember.:\

Honest and accurate replies please!



A bit late, but: yes you do. I remember being instructed to be the SWO at my first unit and have done ever since, but to be on the safe side just checked AP1358. I would copy the relevant section across, but it's in a table and they never seem to come out right on here...