Employment in Canada

[Energetic Pilot]

Can anyone tell me wether there is a realistic chance to get a job in general aviation in Australia or Canada?
I have German ATP (A2), Piper- and Cessna series, KingAir and about 350hrs only!
Thank you in andvance!

[redsnail]

I honestly can't speak for the Canadian scene but it is always a challenge getting your first job in Oz. Your language quals may help with the scenic flying in the Kimberley (WA) or Kakadu (NT). I don't know if they would let you fly a Kingair on 350 hours. In fact, I doubt it. Most people in Oz start on C206's etc or instructing. As usual, there are more pilots than jobs in Australia.
Hardest part is emigrating. Check out the <a href="http://www.dfat.gov.au" target="_blank">Dept of Foreign Affairs webby</a> for info.
You would also have to convert your license over.
The CASA website has the info.
Good luck

[Gravox]

The guys in the Kimberleys, or atleast Slingair require 500hours min, and 20 hours on Cessna 200 series aircraft.

GA over here in OZ is a very difficult industry to break into. But I would agree that speaking another language may help especially in Kununurra (Kimberleys) as there operation is mainly scenic flights over the region. At the moment there are hundreds of unemployeed pilots around looking for work. I've been lucky enough to find some work after driving all around the country, and taking 1 year to do so. To get work you must be on the door step knocking on the doors.

You will not be able to work into a job. And the King Air time is of no use to you for at least a couple of years at best!

GA is a hard road in Australia.

Just telling it as it is....
Best of luck with your decision

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Fluxvalve:

Job opportunities in Canada are like the rest of the world now. There are a lot of high time pilots looking, low time pilots who really get out and search usually can get a job. The problem in getting started is the low pay. Flight instruction is one way to get started, however once again low pay.

As to coming to Canada we are a liberal mindset governed Country with real morons in charge of immigration, and of course we are multi-cultural.

The best way to enter Canada would to paint yourself a dark color and just show up at the airport with no I.D. and claim refuge status. It would be helpful to have a criminal or terrorist background and claim you will be persecuted if you are returned to your place of origion.


Now for some serious advice. Do not feel you have " only " 350 hours. The truth is that with your a/c types you have a good start so do not feel you need to down play your time.

I have found many, many pilots with your time that are just terrific pilots , the most important thing that is needed is a professional attitude.

All the Best.
................


:) The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no. :)

[calgary]

I have heard from many flight schools that there is no time better than now to become a pilot and its easy to fin a high paying job and blah blah blah... I know this is all false for a pilot who has no exp.

any ways this is the most down to earth quote I've heard so far... how accurate is it?


"Human Resources Development Canada rates employment prospects in this field as "Good", since employment opportunities are above average and earnings are well above average. Over the next five years, this outlook is not expected to change, as the number of job openings is expected to be matched by the number of qualified job seekers."

[calgary]

moving back up to top

[aviatter]

calgary,

I have seen you post a few times on this site and it seems to me that you are quite concerned with respect to finding a job after you graduate from Mount Royal. And rightly so.

I can tell you what I have experienced in the short time I have been in the aviation industry, and from what I have seen and heard from acquaintances in the industry. (Please remember that this is only my opinion and should be taken cautiously as with any advice)

You probably already know that finding that first flying job is next to impossible but what you should also know is that finding that second, third, and even fourth job can be equally tough, especially in Canada. I know of several people that have 1500 hours with ATPL and still can't find a job outside of what they are currently doing. For example, one individual has almost 2000 hrs of instructing time (some multi-IFR instruction) and can't find a right seat in any charter outfit no matter how hard he tries. Another individual has over 2000 hours on floats (single) yet he still can't find work in the winter months.

Some people say that because Air Canada is hiring that things are picking up. What they seem to forget is that there are still hundreds of pilots still unemployed from the demise of Canada 3000 (I know one of them -- Airbus type rated -- still unemployed). The fact remains that airlines are becoming leaner, more streamlined operations which means less pilots for the time being. Although Air Canada is hiring once again the hiring is limited and you must remember that they are still bleeding a ton of money indicating that they could very well turn around after their next shareholders meeting and start cutting once again. As for the charter and bush guys, I have heard they are toughing it out and lay-offs are probably equal to new hires.

This all menas that there are hundreds of qualified pilots out there for each available job (so don't believe the gov.ca website --see below).

With that said, I still believe that if you really want to pursue a career in aviation, it can be done. Your dedication and commitment must be unrelenting. You must live, eat and sleep aviation. Patience will be more than a virtue. Imagine the hardest thing you've ever done to this point in your life and multiply it by 100. Don't believe the sales people (ie: CFI's) who say that the job will come right after you do this or that rating. If your not prepared, this industry will suck you in, chew you up and spit you back out.

As for your first job, networking is key. Treat everyone you meet with the utmost respect and never turn down an offer even if its to build a hangar for someone. It is that someone who will get you into a plane. Oppurtunities reveal themselves in the oddest places and circumstances, when you are least expecting it. Forget about sending out resumes from home, show up in person ready to work.

I'm sorry if I sound like the rest of the nay-sayers on this site. I don't mean to. I just want you to be prepared for the difficult journey that lies ahead of you. You can succeed if you work at it like you've never worked at anything before.

With regards to the job outlook from the government -- ask yourself how many times the government has ever gotten anything right? Nobody, and I mean nobody can predict the future.

If you're wondering about me, I got lucky once (yes it does happen) outside of Canada, but lost the dream job before I even started (9/11). I am now working outside of the industry for financial reasons and because I'm really not sure if I have the kind of dedication, commitment, and will to start over again.

Hope this helps a bit

Aviatter

[calgary]

Hey, thanks, that answers alot of questions. The reason why I am so concerned is because I have to make the choice of working in an office=( drafting. Or doing something I love, Aviation, I know i can do both but i would way rather pursue a career as a pilot than anything. I know if I do drafting I will easily be able to find a job, because theres lots out there especially in calgary, and the pay is right too. So its a pretty tough decision.

I am willing to do whatever it takes to get a job, even going up to the north in the summer holidays do work for an aviation company doing whatever.

As for the canadian gov. any one who spends 140mil on the health canada website... should be horsewhipped, and as for jean chritien he should be horsewhipped too, makes the liberals look like @$$holes, but i guess no party in canada deserves respect.

So if you can understand why I'm so concerned now. I really appreciate you taking the time to write all that by the way.

I am going toget a medical tomorrow to make sure i can become a pilot as well.(i listen to subwoofers loud) so hopefully ill pass the hearing test

Once again thanks, that answer alot of questions

[OBK!]

I am currently situated in UK, 17, doing ATPL's with Bristol GS. After a family discussion (me, the old mad, and sister) my dad popped the question, do we facny emigratting to Canada! :eek: :eek:

My initial reaction was of course JOB oppurtunities for people moving in from the UK.

What is it like in Canada? I quite fancy the sounds of bush flying but I am sure you would have to be in the know of some companies, be the owners best friend type of thing to be able to do that?

I have looked at air canada for a little preview, and they want a university degree and canadian ATPL :eek: Seems an allwful lot to ask.

Also, if its not too much to ask, whats the living like over there?

[Easy Glider]

I have worked in Canada quite a few years ago but I have been told that it is basically the same now as it was then.

If you are prepared to fly any type anywhere, including up in the arctic circle, then it is reasonably easy to find employment. If however, you are like me and are basically a fussy bastard, only prepared to fly medium/heavy jet equipment in the warm, you will find employment VERY difficult to find.

Many pilots in Canada will fly their whole careers without ever seeing the inside of a nice shiny jet. Many more will never see anything larger than a King Air / Navajo.

Hope this helps.

[OBK!]

I did want to be an RAF pilot, but got turned down due to Hayfever so I will fly ANYTHING! You say it is relatively easy up north? Can you give me any links/names of any regional carriers up there? That would be great!

P.S - how did you find canada? Good lifestyle? :D

[Easy Glider]

You say that you would be happy flying anything but will you still be happy flying anything in 20 years time? Believe me, the novelty wears off sooner than you may think. Also, temperatures of -35 C WITHOUT the wind chill factor will grate on you after a while.

I left Canada because I wanted to fly bigger and better equipment and I wanted to earn more cash. Now all I want is cash.....

Salaries in Canada are crap unless you work for Air Canada.

[OBK!]

GoAround, you also thinking of moving to Canada?

Are there any other jobs in aviation that are well paid? I wouldn't mind a well paid job in aviation, but be able to afford to go recreational flying!

Can you tell I hate this country yet? LOL.

[Wireless]

I occasionally visit the Canadian forum which is really where you should be posting your questions.

It does appear that there are still unemployed float pilots with lots of Mountain and lake experience. A friend of mine works for Forde Lake Air Service and they are over subscribed with guys who have a few thousand hours of bush time. He reckons this will change within a couple of years, so it isn't all bad.

I looked into emigration into Canada. They use a point scoring system. I think you need 70 out of a possible 100 points to be able to work there. The points are awarded for things such as education (what level you have achieved), wether you can speak a second language, and age. A large part of the scoring is down to wether the Canadian authorities recognise your intended profession as being one which is needed in Canada. The Authorities produce a sort of "menu" with all the currently required professions in Canada. Obviously this changes according to immigration needs. I think Pilot figures quite low on the points system now. Anyway you are awarded points for the profession that you wish to persue plus points for the level of training that you needed to obtain the qualification that goes with your profession (e.g CPL/IR). If I remember correctly you also have to have worked as a Pilot for a certain time prior to emmigrating to Canada (It was 18 months related work experience when I looked at it).

It may be possible to emmigrate to Cananda in another capacity if you have another skill, and then look for flying work. I'm not sure on the restrictions on doing this though.

Bill

[Go-Around]

Wireless,
Thanks very much for that, please check your PMs.
GA

[Andy_R]

To give you an idea try looking at www.migrationbureau.com . However do your parents qualify bearing in mind thay bought the subject up? Have they applied for residency or are they too just dipping their toes in the water?

[Lazlo]

OBK,

As a Canadian, I can tell you - don't go. It will be career suicide for you. It is most certainly NOT easy to get a job anywhere in Canada, no matter how crappy, except instructing. You can expect to spend a year or so of driving thousands of miles across the country just looking for work. The work you get will likely be "swamping" which is working on the ramp, loading aircraft, cleaning lavs, etc. You can expect to do this for between 6 months and 2 years before you get a chance at right seat. All the while you are paid minimum wage. When you are flying, don't expect much of a payrise, if any. Air Canada is realistically the only decent paying job in Canada. One airline. There are currently hundreds of highly experienced airline pilots unemployed because of Canada 3000's failure.

Only a lucky few make it into Air Canada, the majority face lives flying in very remote communities on small aircraft (great if that's what you want) or just give up.

My recommendation is to stay in the UK. Shame because Canada is a great place to live, but not if you are a pilot.

Lazlo

[Snot Box]

I'm in Canada now and have been flying here for a few years. Definitely if I were a European or had EU passport, I would be in Europe right now! The situation here in Canada is quite bad and very frustrating and discouraging for the new green and experienced pilots. In a nutshell, there are way too many pilots (yes for a big country we have) and not enough jobs.

At the present situation, if you have a flying job in Canada, consider yourself very lucky as most grateful pilots would say.

If you have more specifics, then feel free to PM me.

Cheers and happy flying!

[CSerpent]

Hi

I currently hold my JAA-PPL, JAA Class 2 Medical and , after training in the UK, however, I long term intend to emigrate to Canada and hopefully take up flying over there (hopefully DH8s for JZA, or maybe at worst something else for ACA).

My first question is, how to Transport Canada go about recognising my JAA PPL - do they follow the FAA system of doing a full enquiry back to the CAA and then giving you the 'home' licence?

My second question is, should I bother to continue doing fATPL training in the UK or just continue and do it in Canada? Either way what would be required in all reality to get a JAA fATPL recognised in Canada at worst?

TIA!

[Canada Goose]

CSerpent,

I lived in Canada for 7 years (in fact I am now a Canadian citizen). I'd say have a good think before emigrating, Don't get me wrong it's a great place, but not everyones cup of tea. The flying is great, but when I left nearly 10 months ago it was still buckled from 9-11.

As far as I am aware TC will recognise your PPL. I had a friend over there who had lived in the UK for a fwe years and funnily enough got his PPL in the UK (days before JAA) and was able to fly on it. All he had to do was renew his UK medical which he was able to do in Canada, no problem I believe.

If you are serious about going to Canada, my advice would be to do as my friend did and whilst there go straight for your CPL. I wouldn't waste your time and money doing the fATPL. If you ever return, you can do it then (like me). I met an Brit bird over there so coming back was in part to do with that. If you meet a Canuck, then your well more like to stay in reality !! Like others I've known !!

Anyway, I could tell you loads more, and if you want to hear it PM me and I'll give you my tel number and you're free to call me and get the whole shaboodle !!

Good luck.
Cheers CG
:)

[pittss2b]

Converting your JAA PPL to Transport Canada PPL:

There are 3 options, best option might be to get a Canadian medical, and do a small air regulations test called the PSTAR then you would have a full Canadian PPL. More details at: http://www.harvsair.com/training/conversions/index.htm
Cost is about $55 Canadian and takes a day.

No advantage if you finish your fATPL. If you have a fATPL you still have to do the Commercial Flight and Written exam to convert. Which is what you would have to do to get a Canadian Commercial Licence anyways. There is no such thing as a fATPL in Canada, the closest is to have a CPL and a Multi IFR, and then write the IATRA exam with 250 hours TT. Sorry if I confused you more. Good Luck. You can email me at [email protected] if you want more info.

Adam
Harv's Air

[CSerpent]

Thanks CG and Adam

Advice is much appreciated. CG I will give you a PM soon, something happened yesterday which has tied me up for a little while. I've already put my application in to the CIC to it's in process afaik :)

[Tonic Please]

Im 19, PPL from Canada but I am English. Live in Surrey. By all means PM me with questions about it as another member suggested.

I want to emmigrate there too, and have got lotsof information on things regarding the subject matter. Of course, government canadas website is the main wealth of information.

Good luck...and who knows, we could both be at the front of an AC aircraft one day!! :O

Smooth skies,
Dan

[BongleBear]

Does anyone know how possible it is for someone to gain employent for an airline in Canada? I am hoping to have completed my JAA ATPL by this summer. If anyone knows of any license conversion needed, the chances of employment, if it happens often and who to brown nose in the meantime, I´d be greatful for that info. Cheers, Mr B Bear.

[stefair]

Hi everyone,

My question involves some background info that I hope I will not bore you all to death with before actually getting to the point. :ouch:

So yeah, here we go:

I am an Aerospace Engineering major and currently studying in my second year at a UK university. As many others my goal is also to become a professional pilot.

The reason being for myself pursuing a university degree is basically to have a second career at hand in case the flying option will not take off as I hope it will. Furthermore, I think an Aero Eng degree will make my resume stick out a bit from other applications, provided that the flying experience is identical.

I plan on leaving my current college with a Bachelors degree to continue my studies towards a Masters degree either in America or Canada. The colleges I am interested in are San Diego State University or University of Ottawa.

My plan is to obtain all ratings up to a CPL/IR including the CIF’s so I can work for one of the local FTO’s as an instructor in my spare time while attending university and during the one-year period of practical training as an engineer, following university. After completing my education and hopefully having built enough hours to be employable I would be returning to the UK to find a job as an engineer as well as to start converting my FAA/TCCA ratings into JAA.

I think by doing so I will minimise the financial risks involved, while increasing my airline interview prospects to the utmost. The job market for engineers is looking fairly good at the moment and according to predictions will still do so in a few years down the line, so hopefully there should be a decent job with good pay for me in the bag.

My question to you now is, in regard to my flight training concerning factors such as costs, employment prospects as an FI etc., what would be the wiser path to take? I have done some research on flying in either country and it seems to be that either has its advantages and disadvantages. It would be great if there is anyone around who is familiar with aviation in particular in Canada, as there is so much more info available on flying in America.

Thanks a lot for your help! It’s greatly appreciated! :ok:

[stefair]

:confused: Oh, come on guys, there's gotta be someone??? No Canadian pilots around here?

[Dirty Harry 76]

Hi Stefair

This type of question has been asked before, see if the search function is working?

Very quickly, I presume you are from the UK. Not sure about Canada but lived in the US and also have an Enginering Degree from the UK.

First of all, when you are in the USA doing your Masters Degree, although you have the right to reside as a student will you have the right to work there? This will be your biggest obsticle and is a complex area.

Basically the North American (US and Canada) and JAR systems are very different when you start your Career. The North American System is based on QUANTITY of hours, you get your PPL, IR, CPL, CFI, MEI, CFII and when you reach the heights of 1000hrs plus (with 250hrs multi), you apply to the Cummuters for a regional airline job (TP of RG Jet) and work your way up to a shiney Boeing:ok: or Scarebus.

In JAR land the airlines prefer QUALITY hours. Someone with 250 to 500hrs piston who knows someone within an operator or turns up in the right place at the right time is more likely to get a job than someone with thousands of hours of Cessna time from North America. My advice to you would be:

1. If you are going to stay in North America, get yourself into THEIR system and follow it.

2. If your going to Fly in JAR Land do your PPL and hour building in US/Canada and then come back to Europe to do your Ground exams, CPL and IR.

3.Until you have 3000hrs of for example jet time your FAA ratings will be worthless in Europe and vice versa. DECIDE which route you want to go.

4. Regarding your degree, your doing the right thing. Generally a Flying licence is the basic quilification needed , however, if things dont work out or you loose your medical in the future you have something to fall back on. Some of the majors ask for proof of above average academic performance....a decent BEng is more than adequate.

5. IF you really want to Fly I think a Masters is over kill. Why not just get your B degree and start your training?

6. If you decide to get your Masters I can recommend San Diego:) . Canada is too cold:( .

[watty]

Hello Steffair!

I was in the same boat as you when I graduated from Uni 18 months ago.

I blasted off to Canada and finished my CPL off (decent prices on training). The school offered me a job so did my instrucor rating and have been here since.

I'd certainly recommend Canada, people here are pretty cool, weather is wicked. Yeah, it is cold (that other guy's a homo) but as you know cold air = clear skies. If you're not gay, just by a jacket.

Pay is virtually non-existant for instructors out here but I'm at a mediumly type busy school and have been cruising the skies an average of 40 hours a month in my mighty 150/172(!). Much more in summer when the runway is less snowed up.

Plenty of jobs for instructors if you don't care where you go. Job ads:
www.avcanada.ca (http://www.avcanada.ca/).

Work permits - no worries if you have graduated from uni in the last 12 months :
http://www.canada.org.uk/visa-info/worker/e_stuwor.htm

Screw the engineer ****! You must have already wasted your time at uni doing aero eng. (I watched a few buddies cry their way through that course) when you could have done an easy degree and been in the pub.

Nice to have a back up and all but seems a lot of work if you don't actually want to be an engineer in the end. I did some lazy bum aviation management degree.

Can you get on the University Air Squadron? Also a bit of a giggle. Free flying and plenty of beer.

If you're interested in flying near Ottawa, I have an ex-colleague who is top notch over there. If you wanna know more bout my school, be happy to help.

As for converting licences back to JAA - dunno! Will find out and let ya know when I bust out of here in the Spring.

Good Luck,

Andy

[stefair]

D/H, thanks for your answer!

Andy,

Thanks a lot for your post! Worthwile a read!

However, no offence but I felt like the way you are slagging off DH 76 reminds me of a young sport, who has to contemplate his wording a bit more! All DH wanted to do was to map out his point of view as he personally likes Sou Cal better than Canada! Again, no offence, but felt like I had to get this straight before going on with my thoughts on flight training/postgrad ed in Canada. :E

Screw the engineer ****! You must have already wasted your time at uni doing aero eng. (I watched a few buddies cry their way through that course) when you could have done an easy degree and been in the pub.

Hmm, dunno know what I should make of this really?! :confused:

No offence again, but maybe there are some folks out there who actually enjoy doing that ... erm ... "engineer ****"... :p I must stress I actually enjoy going to university! :8 I too like doing engineering math and all the rest of it! Also it's not that I think this degree is one of the easier sorts, but I am definitely not "crying" myself through it. And believe it or not, I can be seen every so often down the pub with my buddies sipping on a pint and chasing the ladies... :ok:

I would not mind working as an engineer at all as long as I will closely be working to airplanes. I do not know at this point if "merely" flying the line for the next 30 years or so would make me happy. I want to keep myself as many options on the table for as long as I possibly can. That's why I also decided on pursuing a degree and perhaps some postgrad ed.

It most certainly sounds really nice the way you are talking about Canada. It's about the way I imagine it to be. No, I would not mind the chill factor at all, as I do not bat for the same team, no no, not at all. := So yeah, I could get a jacket indeed. I just think the landscape in North America must be amazing, let alone the peeps. I have lived for several years in California already - it's an awesome place to live, but why not try something new? If I had to make a decision right now I would probably choose Ottawa over San Diego, but then again, since the University of Ottawa runs a very competitive aero eng program I would have to first get into the school, which appears to be rather difficult... :}

A few more questions: University Air Squadron? What the heck is this? If this is to do with pre-military flying I guess I can forget about it, as I am not a UK citizen. Having said this leads me to my next question. Will I be facing any extraordinary difficulties in getting a work permit, if not being a UK citizen but a EU resident? Am a German native.

Where can I find info on cockpit crew licensing in Canada? There's loads of info available on the Yankee bit, especially here in Pprune, but not as much on Canada! Help please! Others? Any thoughts in this?

Andy, again thanks very much for your help. Am looking forward to hearing back from you! :ok:

-s

[watty]

whatever,

www.tc.gc.ca (http://www.tc.gc.ca)

[dom462]

I'm about to start my ATPL modular training here in the UK and in florida. I have dual british and canadian nationality. When I obtain the JAA ATPL(frozen) licence I intend to look for an airline career here in the UK. However, I would also consider re-locating to canada and working for a canadian airline. Can somebody tell me how a JAA to TC ATPL conversion works or the other way round? Is it complicated and expensive? If I applied to canadian airlines with a JAA ATPL(frozen) licence would they consider me, if I pledged to convert it before I commenced employment with them?