BBC research

[naomidp]

Hi there,

We are a UK film company making a series for the BBC and are looking for an experienced Air Traffic controller to help with our research- is there anone out there interested in giving our writer some friendly advice?

[eyeinthesky]

The deafening silence is probably due to suspicion as to your motives or because, for NATS employees at least, speaking to the Press without approval is a disciplinary offence...

You might get more luck if you address the NATS Press office, explain what you want and they will try and help.

Of course, the official approach may not give you what you want for your programme...:hmm:

[MancBoy]

And even if you do get approval from the NATS press office the chances of you filming anything "as it happens" are less than very remote.

[Il Duce]

I'l tell you everything you WANT to hear - but I need an awful lot of money up front!

[Lon More]

Cheese and ham?

[MancBoy]

Ill do it for 10 million and nothing less

[eastern wiseguy]

I seem to remember the last BBC effort paid little or no attention to what actually happens in ATC ......shock horror millions die ...seemed to be the starting point and it went downhill from there.:confused:

[chevvron]

Naomidp: after what the BBC did to ATC in general in the drama 'The Night Britain Stopped'(at least I think that's what it was called - I didn't watch it on principle) I'm surprised your producers even bother to spend the money getting you to research this, but then, knowing how 'free and easy' BBC producers are with licence payers money, maybe it's not surprising.

[Jerricho]

Ah yes Chevvron, what a wonderful "mockumentary" that production was. Exacerbated that the BBC were forced to add the little disclaimer at the end of it after it's first airing. :rolleyes:

[MancBoy]

And how is Bob Trott these days?

[Ali Bongo]

Do I have to go on the 'casting couch' again? :=

[120.4]

Saw Bob at Hoebridge Golf Centre last week - alive and kickin'

.4

[chevvron]

He can be heard occasionally on 123.425

[hold at SATAN]

Naomidp,

just watch "pushing tin" or "wing and a prayer" - both excellent movies which accurately depict the lives and work of ATCOs. :ouch:

[MancBoy]

I hope you are joking.


Pushing tin is the worst film I have ever seen and doesn't reflect ATC in the UK whatsoever.

[Asda]

I agree.

It's much more like 'Airplane'.

[Dannyboyblue]

Pants film but i thought the bit where they stand behind the 747 was funny, would love to try it, hmmmmmm whats the airport managers name at heathrow he he:ouch:

[Conspiracy Theories]

Pants film but i thought the bit where they stand behind the 747 was funny, would love to try it, hmmmmmm whats the airport managers name at heathrow he he:ouch:

Absolutely, let me know if you ever get permission, i will join in. But what would happen if the 747 lands just before the threshold?:eek:

[Married a Canadian]

Manc boy

Just cos Pushing tin dosen't reflect UK ATC isn't to say it might not reflect the rest world ATC eh?:) In fact it might be incredibly accurate.

[25check]

I think Die Hard 2 is much more accurate, lets stack 'em, pack 'em and rack 'em........!

[Spitoon]

And don't forget Ground Control.

[Dan Dare]

Aw c'mon!

You guys slate "The day Britain ground to a halt" (just like every other day then), which was one of the best doccumentaries ever, then refuse to give the producers the benefit of your wisdom to sort out the minor technical inaccuracies that creaped in. What are they supposed to do? Just guess again and make another slightly flawed show?

:mad: I'm not talking and losing my job though:mad:

[matspart3]

Not much help from the overpaid prima donnas then?

I'll tell you everything you want to know and I DO come cheap!

[Roffa]

Not much help from the overpaid prima donnas then?

Miaow :rolleyes:

[2 sheds]

I can see it now...

"Jumbo Jets collide at Fred West International"

[tori chelli]

"I think Die Hard 2 is much more accurate"

I agree, the bit where they use software to 'hack' into the ILS and drop the GP angle to make the i/b's crash was absolutely spot-on :)
Much like the first series of 'Spooks' when they altered the elevations of all the mountains, and suddenly A/c on the Awy's were in danger of CFIT :hmm: and the latest series of 'Spooks' when you can wander into the centre, chat to a couple of A/c on freq. without anyone noticing, and engineer a mid-air without TCAS going off :ugh: :ugh:

TV make it up, the press lap it up, and the media wonder why we don't trust them :( :(

Tori

[chevvron]

The Day Britain Stopped (or whatever it was called) was notorious due to the BBC not bothering to accept any input from NATS and refusing to give NATS a prior viewing before it was shown to all and sundry. Typical BBC attitude.

[mdcsplatter]

I'll do it for a portion of chips with curry sauce and three pints of boddies!

[TATC]

What made me laugh about the Day Britain Stood Still was the way that controllers couldn't get to the centre to take over on LL Approach, but they could make it to the tower on time which is what 5 miles away. Curse the bloody british traffic

[Quokka]

Every time I chat up a babe in a Club and she asks me what I do for a living... then her eyes light up and she gets all excited and says "you wave the batons!!"... :ugh:

One good thing about "Pushing Tin"... a lot of people have seen it.

You just have to say "What John Cuzak did in that film... that's what I do..."

[Married a Canadian]

John Cusack and Billy Bob Thornton came to YYZ to train and "get into the character" of Air traffic controllers. At the start of the movie it is one of my colleagues mouth you see giving instructions.

So you slag off Pushing Tin you are slagging off all of YYZ terminal control.

Shocking:=

[Jerricho]

Yeah, you don't need Pushing Tin to do that.

[Pilsbury Dough Boy]

Pushing Tin depics the reality of ATC as much as Mel Brooks "The History of the World Pt 1" did... 'what shall we do the streets are crawling with romans?' .... ' half you men run with me and the rest will run with Mucus!'..... Why are you YYZaidians so sensitive. I get the feeling that you have a inferiority complex.

[Married a Canadian]

Main problem with PPRUNE is people never seem to pick up on tongue in cheek comments.

Sigh!

[GrahamDuke]

Just saw your request for help.

I am not a controller but I have been writing books on ATC since the early 1980's.

"ABC Air Traffic Control" is now in its 9th edition. You will probably find it in Smiths or on the Ian Allan Publishing website.

Quite happy to help provided it's not the usual scare scenario that gives aviation and ATC a bad name.

[Point Seven]

Hey, I read your book before I applied to be an ATCO some 8 years ago now. And then some fool gave me a job!

Many thanks for your help Sir.

P7:ok:

[Gonzo]

Same here Mr. Duke, thanks!:ok:

P7, we're getting scarily similar. We must take steps to stop this. :eek:

[GT3]

I too read the aforementioned book and now lead an illustrious career at London's finest.

However it must be noted that I distance myself from the above two LHR controllers. I clearly cannot compete with their uniqueness.

[Dances with Boffins]

Mr Duke is indeed a most respected source for every ATCO who has entered NATS [and I suspect any other ANSP] for the last 20 years.:ok:

Read his book Mr BBC person.

[halo]

:) :) I too owe a great debt to Mr Duke for my career at a small twin runwayed airfield just west of London

[bmb7jiw]

I'm another one!!
Thanks so much for your book, it certainly helped me on my technical interview!

bmb7jiw

[flower]

I think we should have an in praise of Graham Duke thread. I like the rest of my colleagues who have posted read the book cover to cover prior to Joining up, i still direct any potential students towards it today.

[GrahamDuke]

Thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier message.

I have to say I was surprised (and rather humbled) by the reaction which was quite unexpected.

I know that quite a few people have a copy of my book, but I had not realised that it was actually useful to some of you!

Thanks again for your kind comments - very much appreciated!

[rodan]

Heheh, who did you think was buying all those copies? Your book is pretty much required reading for anyone pursuing a career in ATC these days. I certainly studied it, and I've recommended it to many others since.

[Odi]

And you can add me as one more to the (very long?) list of people who studied the book intently before his interview....

Incidently, the Amazon website has one review of the book by a reader, and I quote:

"This very basic approach is certainly accessible - perhaps best for children. Constant references to the type of radio to buy in order to listen in to ATC communications show this to be aimed ...not at those of us with a professional interest in the subject."

Love the bit about the book being best for children...

[GrahamDuke]

Interesting comment from you about the Amazon website. I had a look but can't find it.

I just wonder if they are referring to my other book on Airband Radio?

[Odi]

Hopefully this will work:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Air-Traffic-Control-Ian-Allan/dp/071102569X/sr=1-10/qid=1166453274/ref=sr_1_10/203-6435071-9327133?ie=UTF8&s=books

That should take you to the page in question.

The reviewer obviously never applied to be an ATCO!

:D :D :D :D

[Billy Onions]

Robert Johnson = Godfather of Blues

James Brown = Godfather of Soul

Neil Young = Godfather of Grunge

Francis Ford Coppolla = Godfather of Gangster

Graham Duke = Godfather of ATC Training & Selection

I can't believe that not checking this thread nearly cost me the oppurtinuty to post to the man himself. Your book + ATCO interview = pass (also FACT).

[GrahamDuke]

To Billy Onions and Others

Thanks again - such an honour!!

[jumpseater]

Me too, helped pass a interview in 89, due reasons outside my control had to take a sabattical for a few years, 06 read the book again, back in atc:ok: :D

[Coast]

Yeah, you don't need Pushing Tin to do that.

Agreed, YWG is much, much better and much, much safer............except on the busy days when there's 3 or 4 planes :E

[Taffy1]

I too made it to and out of the college of knowledge thanks to Mr Dukes book. Thank you!!!

[Jerricho]

Why with the hurt Coasty? Why?




;)

[chevvron]

Never heard of Graham Duke; is he a controller? If not, treat anything he writes with suspicion.

[SilentHandover]

Alternatively read his book Chevv.

[chevvron]

You'll be telling me next it's more accurate than Arnold Field's book. Anyway my reading material consists mostly of detective novels and Clive Cussler adventures; why should I shell out for a subject I already know just a little about; obviously you've got one so why not lend it to me?

[Gonzo]

Originally posted by GrahamDukeI am not a controller but I have been writing books on ATC since the early 1980's.

Originally posted by chevvronNever heard of Graham Duke; is he a controller?

My bolding. :ugh: :E

[SilentHandover]

No prob Chevv, I'm not too proud to say that after 9 years as an ATSA there was still stuff I learnt from reading the book before i went for my ATCO interview. I'll drop the book into you on my way to Bournemouth.

[chevvron]

Strange that a non-controller could have such influence over you youngsters.
Got most of my pre selection knowledge from controllers like Len Vass, Des O'Connel,Mike McEvoy, Leo Marriot and Mike Thompson (that shows my age - maybe I should go the same way as Talkdownman)

[eastern wiseguy]

Probably it was Mr Dukes way of putting things across...did you ever read Arnold Fields manual....sorry book:uhoh:


And I am probably as old as you!

[SilentHandover]

Perhaps the controllers you mention were better at putting information across that some of the ATCO's I've worked with Chevv. I for one always found it damned difficult getting anything out of yourself, which considering your undoubted ATC knowledge is a shame for me.

[chevvron]

Maybe you shouldn't have asked so many questions!

[2 sheds]

Controller or not, Graham Duke has an excellent grasp of the subject and writes well - there is very little to criticise adversely in his book. I was very disappointed with Arnold Field's effort; poor writing style, rather parochial and a whole chunk just copied from the UK MATS, from what I recall.