MANCHESTER - 4 [Archive]

MAN777

3rd Nov 2006, 12:25

Good ! perhaps we might get an airline that promotes expansion rather than contraction. BA left Manchester years ago in commitment and reality. Not flown with them for years, the people of the north couldnt give 2 hoots about their presence.

Anybody know what will happen to the BA hanger now, can someone explain to me why this hangar remains empty and secured years after its construction. Surely the airport can get this disgraceful situation resolved.

Momentary Lapse

5th Nov 2006, 16:54

Whoever starts using the hangar will have to pay rates to Manchester City Council. While it's empty, they don't.

The hangar is owned by BA on land leased from the airport. Either the airport buys it back, or BA sells the lease or sublets it someone else. Either way I don't see a large market for over-specified hangars with air-conditioned toilets and gold taps.

sacktheboard

6th Nov 2006, 10:09

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/227/227329_airport_workers_win_confiscated_goods.html

brighton_rocks

6th Nov 2006, 10:10

Curious Pax

6th Nov 2006, 10:28

Keep away from Wythenshawe and its associated areas (Benchill, Sharston, Newall Green). Heald Green is OK, along with Cheadle (mostly) and out that way. Altrincham also good. No guarantees about not being mugged anywhere in this day and age, but you ought to have a better chance of avoiding it there.

brighton_rocks

6th Nov 2006, 10:33

Thank you for your advice, - we were looking at wythenshawe as there were some nice houses on rightmove - lucky escape - thanks again

sky9

6th Nov 2006, 10:40

Brighton Rocks
Quick tip: If it's cheap don't move there. Have a good look at the preferential routes and don't buy underneath the flight-paths if you are doing night flights and sleeping during the day.

Scottie Dog

6th Nov 2006, 12:20

Check your PMs

Momentary Lapse

6th Nov 2006, 18:00

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/227/227329_airport_workers_win_confiscated_goods.html

Good for them. It's nice to see the guys n gals who work at the pointy end, who get all the flak from customers, getting something good for a change.

Momentary Lapse

6th Nov 2006, 18:03

Can anyone help please, we are crew based at EMA but looking to relocate to Manchester in December, could anyone based at Manchester airport recommend any decent area's in which to live in close proximity of the airport ( for standbys) in more importantly WHICH AREA'S NOT TO LIVE IN! as we really dont know anything about any of the area's. We currently live in Nottingham at the moment and within 5 months 1 of us has already been mugged in broad daylight, and obviously dont want to jump out of the pan and in to the fire. Thanks folks B_R

If you can use public transport, try north along the rail line (Heald Green, Gatley, East Didsbury, Burnage, Mauldeth Road), but no further south than Wilmslow cos the rail connections from further south are a bit dodgy.

If you have children who need good schools, try anywhere around Altrincham, Timperley, Hale or Sale.

TURIN

6th Nov 2006, 18:20

Brighton Rocks please check your PMs again.:ok:

brighton_rocks

6th Nov 2006, 18:31

Thanks everyone for your help regarding accomodation, we're looking upto £750/£800 per month so hopefully should get somewhere decent, thanks again for all your help - B_R

TURIN

6th Nov 2006, 18:56

Either way I don't see a large market for over-specified hangars with air-conditioned toilets and gold taps.

That would be the MON shed.

Believe me there is nothing gold plated or over specified about the (ex) BA hangar.

As for Air Con....that is the biggest joke.:sad:

Vuelo

6th Nov 2006, 21:26

Are QR going up to 10 weekly? Have heard so.

hammerb32

6th Nov 2006, 22:13

Vuelo,

Not sure about 10 per week from MAN, they are keen to open a 4th base next year with BHX, DUB, EDI or GLA in the running.

ManofMan

7th Nov 2006, 11:33

Are QR going up to 10 weekly? Have heard so.

If they are then the forgot to mention it to the airport.

Cheers

Rob

pwalhx

7th Nov 2006, 21:36

Correct me if I am wrong ( and I appreciate not totally relevant here) havent QR already annouced BHX if not started.

FlyZB

7th Nov 2006, 21:51

Hey guys. Does anyone know which aircraft will be operating flight FCA2700 MAN - AGP this Sunday? Any info grateful.

Thanks in advance

TSR2

7th Nov 2006, 22:03

FCA2700 is listed to be operated by B757-200 equipment.

OltonPete

7th Nov 2006, 22:11

Correct me if I am wrong ( and I appreciate not totally relevant here) havent QR already annouced BHX if not started.

pwalhx

No, ABTN announced it was to start last March but I believe they were
just quoting a conversation/speech the CEO had made.

All a big mistake, some said it was meant to be March 2007 and it was
a genuine mistake but nothing official heard as yet.

Pete

Vuelo

8th Nov 2006, 17:17

Hamleys Bring Magic To Manchester

Hamleys, the world famous toy shop, is opening a new store at Manchester airport, Terminal 2, on Thursday 16th November 2006.

The 500 square foot space (formerly a Bijoux Terner store) has been re-fitted to contain more than 300 types of gifts and toys, including a wide range of classic favourites, such as Hamleys’ own soft toys and bears, pre-school toys, family and travel games, outdoor activities, educational toys and arts and crafts.

From travelling Dads looking for presents for the kids to parents wanting to keep children amused on holiday, Hamleys provides something for everyone! Not to mention those who want to combine their travelling with Christmas shopping.

Paul Currie, Trading Director at Hamleys, says: “We are delighted to be bringing the magic of Hamleys to such a great city. The customer feedback on our stores at Heathrow and Stansted has been terrific and I look forward to the same in Manchester. We have received a thoroughly warm Mancunian welcome and we’ re excited that the response to our opening has been so positive. This is a fantastic and vibrant city and we can’t wait to be part of the action!

"Hamleys has an international reputation for quality and innovation and provides a great offering for both business and leisure travellers. The team is very excited about being up and running."

He adds: “Opening the store in plenty of time for Christmas means we can offer those travelling out of Manchester airport a fantastic range of gifts and presents to buy family and friends.”

Andrew Harrison, Manchester Airport’s commercial director, said: “The Hamleys brand is recognised around the world as one of the finest retailers of children’s toys.

“We’re really pleased that they have chosen Manchester Airport above any other location as the place to open their first store in the North West.”

Momentary Lapse

8th Nov 2006, 18:45

One word: Harrods.

gayrugbybloke

8th Nov 2006, 19:31

Hamleys have done alot of research in to this store, believe me. The traffic at T2 is ideal for this type of venture, as it would be if Harrods were in exisence now at MAN, based at T2 rather than T1.

This store is just the forst of several elite outlets to open at all three terminals over the next year as they are redeveloped.

Both T1 and T3 will undergo major retail development starting this winter.

Momentary Lapse

8th Nov 2006, 19:46

Ah well, good luck to them, then. We'll review it in a year or two, eh, and see who was right :)

What's the timetable for the various bits of work? There's a lot involved. When does security go upstairs?

MAN777

8th Nov 2006, 20:24

Dont bother with Hamleys for your XMAS prezzies,try the re located TAS (The Aviation Shop) in T1 arrivals, they have had to move off the carpark, should be open in a couple of weeks.

Vuelo

8th Nov 2006, 21:45

T1 has already started in a fashion with the closure of outlets airside such as Starbucks and TieRack. Work will be done in stages and according to a meeting I was at recently will take two years. If you are a wheelchair user, have mobility problems or have babies in prams and buggies, T1 departures may well be a bit of a struggle for you til the new escalators are installed airside where the café is currently situated.

Mr A Tis

8th Nov 2006, 23:18

.........and will new T1 departures STILL require a one hour queue to get through security ? Thus alleviating the need for ANY shops?:eek:

jongeman

9th Nov 2006, 00:29

.........and will new T1 departures STILL require a one hour queue to get through security ? Thus alleviating the need for ANY shops?:eek:

I try to check in early nowadays, because if I don't get a leisurely mooch around WH Smith, the tax free shop, and have 2 cups of coffee and something to eat airside, it freaks me out!

Vuelo

14th Nov 2006, 07:47

Anyone know what plans Air Berlin have for next summer from MAN? Are there to be any new German routes?

Also, might we see any expansion from WW?

helen0888

14th Nov 2006, 10:08

as someone who works at a certain taxfree shop after security in t1, the new security measures have made a massive differnce to our working day.

instead of passengers leisurly mooching around the shop, we just see them running past the doors to get to their gate, most of them minus shoes and belt undone i hasten to add!

Skipness One Echo

14th Nov 2006, 12:30

Does anyone believe that BA will still be one MAN-JFK come summer 2007. They are struggling for long haul capacity ex LHR and have just dumped the bulk of the BA presence north of London.
Anyone know?

Mr A Tis

14th Nov 2006, 15:58

Yes Helen 0888, I'm not surprised. I'm a frequent traveller through T1 & I haven't had time to use any shops since June, due to the riduculous security queues.
Most of the flights I use don't open check in until 2 hours before departure, so an early check in is impossible. It is NOT unusual to queue for an hour to check in, then you have the huge security queues to contend with. On this basis, not only do I no longer use any airside shops, but I have cancelled my exec lounge pass as it has become useless at MAN.
The airside shops at MAN must have lost a fortune this summer.
Returning from Europe / Canada to MAN I have rarely encountered any queues either at check in or in overseas security.
I have written & e-mailed to MA Plc about the situation, but no-one has bothered to respond.
MA, please don't build anymore airside shops that people have NO time to use. Instead DOUBLE the current security search area.....or lose more pax to Liverpool.:rolleyes:

Playamar2

14th Nov 2006, 20:53

Vuelo

Not sure of any new nonstop destinations but Hamburg goes back to 6 per week (daily ex.Sat). arr1120 dep 1200 (Mon to Fri), arr1935 dep 2010 (Sunday). Paderborn is 4 per week (Mon,Wed,Fri,Sun) arr 2005 dep 2045.
Stansted rotations remain the same.

Playamar

SeamusCVT

14th Nov 2006, 21:01

Thomsonfly have today announced a Manchester-Lisbon service

lexxity

15th Nov 2006, 08:39

When does that start? My friend has a home in Lisbon and since TAP pulled the plug has rarely used it. There's at least two seats a month for them.:}

Momentary Lapse

15th Nov 2006, 14:53

Can anyone tell us what the throughputs of the search area are now? People per hour, per x-ray and per archway?

I'd be interested to know how much lower they are than they used to be. Poor old MA will have to double its search areas just to stand still.

Mr A Tis

16th Nov 2006, 07:40

After TAP pulled the Lisbon, PGA Portugalia operated the route. Over many years they have served Opporto, Lisbon & Faro from Manchester. Sadly PGA was another Manchester loss earlier this year, that was their only UK route. Now that TAP have taken over PGA, I'd hoped maybe TAP could be persuaded to return, but hey,Thomsonfly start LIS from 1st May, five times a week dep at 0655.
I've already booked :ok:

lexxity

16th Nov 2006, 07:47

I meant PGA, brain freeze I'm afraid. I shall let my friend know.

initial

19th Nov 2006, 23:18

When do seats go on sale?

Saw some promotional material being delivered to T3 - titled 'New Arrival'. I assume this means MAN will get one new route next summer. With no extra based aircraft will anything be dropped to make way for this?

FlyZB

20th Nov 2006, 17:05

Good news about a potential new route. If an existing route is to be dropped to make way, my bet is that NQY wont return next summer. Although, they did announce that they would have four extra aircraft for S07. Two of which have been deployed from MME and an additional two joining the fleet from elsewhere. Three of these are off to BHX but the fourth could well be on its way to MAN. In which case, hopefully there will be 2 or 3 new routes announced

Scottie Dog

20th Nov 2006, 19:10

Well the Summer Slot Conference - in Dallas - has been held, and all the delegates should now be home.

This is therefore the time when people start to get clever and come up with all sorts of weird and wonderful ideas as to routes that will, may, or never in a month of Sunday etc operate.

So what do we KNOW? Well on a personal note the answer is not a lot, however I am sure that things will start to leak out in the near future. Over the last couple of years we have had the silly season of easyJet and it's planned Manchester base. We have had the saga of Cathay Pacific, Thai and other routes.

My guess is on more consolidation of routes and that any new services are likely to be by 'quality' carriers. Gone are the days when applications will far outstrip capacity, it is more likely to be a constrained expansion of services - but hopefully one which will allow the airport to get back on track for growth.

The only thing that does seem certain is that it will be a couple of months before the combined BA/BE route network is known - that is on the basis that the take-over goes ahead.

Ringwayman

20th Nov 2006, 19:56

.
The only thing that does seem certain is that it will be a couple of months before the combined BA/BE route network is known

They're looking to do an announcment by 1st Jan having spent "months" tinkering around the schedules of both BA and BE. They're not taking on all the routes from BACon so I'm trying to work out which are the potential routes to be pulled from MAN (Geneva, Vienna and Lyon?). But with some duplication of timings on Southampton and Belfast City, we may see some new additions (or should I say, extra Glasgow and Edinburgh!)

Vuelo

20th Nov 2006, 20:14

Monarch wanted to go double daily on MAN to BCN from nextMarch, but were unsuccessful at the slot conference, and that's from Martin Jeans himself. No late evening slots from BCN available.

Scottie Dog

20th Nov 2006, 20:23

The lastest airfield chart on the AIS website shows a works area for an extension of the above taxiway from its junction with Tango to a point on Victor, midway between DZ & FZ.

Any idea when this work is due to commence?

shark1

21st Nov 2006, 08:36

I saw on the Amadeus website that Bmi Regional will withdraw the MAN-TLS service from january 5.
Jet 2 will begin to fly this route in mid-april with 5 weekly services.
So, no flights between MAN and TLS for 4 months ?

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

21st Nov 2006, 09:28

Singapore Airlines are to go daily non stop from beginging of January with B777
after dropping the 2 x 1 stop flights via Zurich at end of December that gives MAN quite a large increase in capacity on the Tuesday and Thursday flights

Excellent news

G-I-B

Scottie Dog

21st Nov 2006, 10:58

Somebody had better tell SQ then, as they are not selling Tuesdays or Thursdays in February at the moment!!

Vuelo

21st Nov 2006, 16:33

I hear whispers that Kenya Airways and Saudi Arabian are looking to commence services in to MAN for next summer. Any truth in it?

AUTOGLIDE

21st Nov 2006, 16:46

Does anyone know the answer to the following?

In the retail developments update of T1, will there be anywhere decent to eat airside? By that I mean not BK, not the over priced greasy spoon, not the coffee outlet in the bar that has 1 person working and a queue that doesn't move. The only half decent options are a Boots meal deal, or maybe better, the other bar in the middle that does a very limited choice.

Is the cramped, ancient style baggage hall ever to be updated? It looks like something you used to find in East Europe 30 years ago.

Will the patched up carpet and ridiculous post office style rope queue thing at immigration where you walk round and round looking stupid to be modernised?

I hope the answer is positive, because I absolutely hate this awful, dirty, horrible dump of a building, and find it an embarrassment to the city.

Playamar2

21st Nov 2006, 17:05

G-I-B & Scottie Dog

The flight goes to a daily B777 for the period 29 December-22 January according to the Singapore Airlines timetable and then back to 5 per week. The last B744 is on Thursday,December 28th.

Playamar

FlyZB

21st Nov 2006, 17:19

Rapid

21st Nov 2006, 18:46

hi i know this post shouldnt go in here but ive tried and failed in where are they now forum as it only ever seems 2 people read it....im after tracking somebody down who works for servisair t2 ramp....if anybody knows the lads could you please pm me regards!!!!!

Man_User

22nd Nov 2006, 11:06

I heard rumors and seen plans to an updated T1 at man, so its more like T2 where you checkin then go into depatures, ie getting rid of the big hall after checkin and having secuirty just after the ramp down to the hall.

But then the depature lougue would become massive, as during the summer there is hardly any where to sit, never mind the huge queues at secuirty.

All that said they are only plans, but there are looking into changing MAN T1 in the near furture, they are spending alot of money at man with taxi ways being re laied, T1 arrvals, and new FEP's going in.

Never know we might even see new air bridges (cross fingers for that one) all going well in my view, but things take time :ok:

mikeyuk

22nd Nov 2006, 11:39

Does anyone have any idea what the AMD type things are in T1 just as you go through customs? You have to pass through them as you go throught red channel etc

Many thanks

AUTOGLIDE

22nd Nov 2006, 14:00

Autoglide, the T1 baggage hall has not long been revamped and personally I think it looks pretty smart now they've brightened it up and removed the old black floor tiling. Exactly what your gripes with it are I do not know. I do agree with everything else you comment on though.

I think it's fair to say that a lot of people on here are disgruntled with MAN at the minute. But the constant moanings regarding poor management, security issues, the ageing state of Terminal 1 etc etc are getting a little boring. This thread is in danger of becoming the 'Lets slag off Manchester as much as we can' thread and whilst I agree with some - not all - of the ill comments being thrown around, it would be nice to have a bit of positive stuff on here rather than the constant MAN bashing that seems to occur on a daily basis at the moment :ugh:

Absolute rubbish. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending all is OK to avoid a bit of truth is not going to help. The baggage hall may have been improved, but it is still sub standard compared with any other airport I have used in the last 3 years. I currently cannot think of another terminal with patched up carpets, where it always takes at least 30 minutes to get your bag (if you're lucky), and where you have to take some bizarre convoluted twisted route to even exit the baggage hall. If you think this baggage hall is even remotely good, I suggest you travel more. Personally as someone who does, I find it, and rest of the terminal, utter garbage. As for praising the positives, well sorry, but it's been a long time since there were any to praise. Not addressing these issues is just another way of losing customers and airlines to airports that a) actually know what they are doing, and b) give a damn.

FlyZB

22nd Nov 2006, 15:06

Autoglide, I hear what you're saying and believe me, a lot of it I agree with myself. My concerns were regarding the amount of negative posts that seem to be replicating the same issues over and over and my comments were not individually aimed at your post alone.

I'm sure you have a greater knowledge of travel than myself and are therefore in a better situation to make comparisons. I have experienced quite a few airports around Europe and I do admit that some put MAN, and T1 in particular, to shame.

I have friends that work for MAG and without disclosing too much information, for whatever reason they are not in the best situation financially at the minute to make the necessary upgrades that I agree certain parts of the airport needs. The whole reason that retail development is being solely focused upon right now, is because it is one of the biggest sources of profit for the airport. Even with the present queues at security, income from retail is still at a significantly high level. It's the same with those awful gambling machines we all loathe. You'll be sorry to hear that the amount of slots and games around the airport is to be doubled by next summer. The reason is because of the amount of revenue that they bring to the airport.

From what I can gather, the long term plan is that monies coming in from more retail outlets and more gambling machines will help to finance much needed improvements around the airport such as leaking ceilings and patched up carpets. If the Fat Cats at the top didn't take so much for their own back pockets then maybe this is a situation that the airport wouldn't be facing. But unfortuantely through bad management, that's the mess that MAN is in. And those much needed improvements around the terminals that people love to moan about on Pprune, well all I'll say is don't hold your breath guys coz you might be in for a bit of a wait!

Mr A Tis

22nd Nov 2006, 15:23

If MAG think the pax will put up with this situation, in the long term they are completely wrong. No wonder the other regional airports continue to chip away at MAN traffic. They gave away EZY to Liverpool & now Liverpool are about to embark on their first regular longhaul flights.
Previous posters from the Duty Free shop in T1 claim this year has been dire due to the inadequate security situation.
I suppose if they can get the walkways working & the train station escaltors working for more than 24 hours then maybe that would be a positive.
I've used MAN for in excess of 30 years, it was always ahead of the game & I regard the "Golden" era to be when Sir Gil ran the show.
Alas the purchase of other airports seems to co-incide with starvation of funds at the main base.
It's really sad to see a wonderful regional airport creaking at the seems.
Barcelona has a great terminal, built for the Olympics in the 80's...but have you seen the huge scale of re-development taking place there now ?...truly awesome.
Meanwhile, it can take 3 months to change a bulb here.:(

steve platt

22nd Nov 2006, 18:18

How many years have saudia been wanting to come to man at least 20 i think. Is it finally going to happen? heres hoping. as for kenya airways would there be the market? if i hear anything will post it here.

roverman

22nd Nov 2006, 20:43

Scottie Dog - taxiway Sierra extension is not going ahead for the forseeable, although it remains in the longer term plans. It was planned to be constructed this winter in order to assist whilst taxiway repairs were carried out on the southside of the airfield but now an alternative solution is being pursued which will involve various closures, beginning with Tango next week. The construction area will be taken out of the AIS chart in due course.

14 loop

23rd Nov 2006, 07:42

So what is the future of this route?

Not yet on sale for S07, however Jet2 have announced NCL-LGW with 3 rotations a day, the morning arrival at Gatwick being at exactly the same time as the MAN flight.

Question is MAN being binned in favour of NCL or have Jet2 got some additional slots? To my mind these are as rare as hen's teeth in the morning peak.

Momentary Lapse

23rd Nov 2006, 09:24

I agree with a lot of what is said above.

Years ago MAN made good profits because there was little competition. Now there is competition (LPL, Finningley etc), passengers are obviously voting with their feet. MAN are guilty of doing the "same thing" harder (cutting the workers' wages, building more retail, and putting more buckets in the departure lounge when it rains) rather than doing "new" things (new CX/directors/senior management on more sustainable wages, ignoring expensive consultants' advice, and hiring enthusiastic, talented people from genuinely successful airports, for example).

They pocketed the profits when times were good, but won't make investments when times are bad, which arguably is when you should make them. The investment process there is so convoluted and difficult that even getting a light bulb changed is genuinely too difficult. The process would involve writing a report to justify it, getting someone to check the material prices were "market tested", then the same for the labour price, then having four layers of management checking each other and reporting it up to their boss, while covering their own ass on the way. :confused:

British Leyland, anyone?

Vuelo

23rd Nov 2006, 18:40

So who are the airlines that are to start new services from MAN to Seville, Porto, Vilnius, Bucharest and Moscow?

ManchesterMan

23rd Nov 2006, 21:24

Big welcome back to the silly season

MM

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

24th Nov 2006, 00:58

Scottie Dog

24th Nov 2006, 09:06

quite sure if this the correct forum as it covers 4 airports
http://thebusinessonline.com/Document.aspx?id=BE482F1C-EE05-4523-8FA3-23E2C3551733
So firstly if mod likes to move no problem
Secondly any comments/ thoughts
It`s all yours guys, personally I think it is probably the best thing Manchester can do as It will release plenty of cash to sort Manchester out before they sell it
G-I-B

Personally I could not agree with you more. I never could understand the logic of buying the other airports - with apologies to BOH, EMA and HUY. It seemed as if the Board of Directors had a fixation on trying to compete with the BAA. I can not remember the amount that the original company paid for the other airports, but I do hope that the sale will realise more than was spent.

Yes, Manchester needs to seriously concentrate on getting itself back into order. The whole industry in the north is now so vastly different from what it was in the days of Sir Gill - I remember the cynical (or tongue in cheek) T-shirts etc that were around when Gill left British Airways; they read 'Would You Trust This Man to Run Your Airport'. Well Sir Gill turned out to be the man that you could trust.

Without wanting to get too political it seems that there is a lot of talk of the airport's directors being 'fatcats'. Now I have no idea as to how their salaries compare with others in industries with a similar turnover, and isn't that how we should be comparing them? It would probably go down well with the seemingly large number of disgruntled employees if they were to make a one-off' donation of a percentage of their salaries towards the building fund but would it really make a difference?

Hopefully the airport will now start to look towards it's roots and remember that it has a big role to play in the region along with its newly developing neighbours. They do say that competion is good for you, so let's hope that the dismemberment of MAG, it the rumour is true, will help to rekindle this flame.

Momentary Lapse

24th Nov 2006, 12:33

I think MA paid about £240m for EMA and BOH. I can't remember how much for HUY, but it can't have been much can it?!

At the time EMA and BOH were worth about £140m as security for the loan (based on industry standard multiples of profit) and the rest was secured against MAN, which until then had been debt-free.

So a sale for £500m would be a tidy earner I guess. The only person who understood the deal, and got the payments under control, was the former group finance director whose name also escapes me. He went off to be a City whizzkid I think.

The whole group was always over-exposed to debt, which dragged MAN down. Apart from EMA the regional airports have never performed to expectations either.

Sell off BOH and HUY at least. Keep EMA as it's close enough to MAN, and profitable enough, to make it worth investing in.

Oh, and review the directorial team. Goes without saying, really.

Momentary Lapse

24th Nov 2006, 12:36

Does anyone have any idea what the AMD type things are in T1 just as you go through customs? You have to pass through them as you go throught red channel etc
Many thanks

Radiation detectors, to test if you are importing radioactive material.

If you set the alarms off, loads of armed guards jump on you and try to kill you. Or one guy in a cubicle somewhere yawns and goes back to reading his paper. Who knows?

Bagso

24th Nov 2006, 14:11

I think talk of Kenya and Saudia ia a tad premature.
I personnally think MAN can forget long haul outside of what we already have, there may be the odd straggler but lets be honest the list of airlines ready to give MAN another go after previous failiures, self inflicted or otherwise would be pretty thin and they would be the main players, QF CX etc
I think I first heard Saudi 30 years ago but then the Ex Pat community was really strong, times are so much different now anyway, so where on earth would the market be for this service..?
As for Kenya well what if they did appear, I think they would be following in the steps of Air Seychelles and Air Mauritius - 2 years of discounted fees then a pull out.
Surely China or Japan is the place to be looking but they appear to have no interest in serving the North of England.
Rather than chasing new or dare I say old long haul airlines the watchword s/b retention, hold what we have AND compete head on with Liverpool....."who would have thought that 10 years ago"
MAN was complacent when EZY started flights from there and appears equally oblivious to the threat of new long haul flights to New York and Toronto flights.........sad really !

Scottie Dog

24th Nov 2006, 14:12

Just been looking at the provisional figures for October and noticed that Finnair are down by 28pc. Can anybody confirm the aircraft type that was being used on the route last year in comparision with this October? Am I right in suspecting that this rather severe drop is due to use of the Embraer as against the Airbus?

Oh and what is the capacity of the 2 aircraft types.

Thanks in advance.

dwlpl

24th Nov 2006, 15:00

.... could also be that the new Liverpool/Tampere Ryanair route has had an effect.

Momentary Lapse

24th Nov 2006, 20:09

.... could also be that the new Liverpool/Tampere Ryanair route has had an effect.

Insert airport name of choice after the "Liverpool/" bit. You listening Mr Muirhead?

Vuelo

28th Nov 2006, 09:59

How are VLM doing on the Antwerp route?

MANFlyer

28th Nov 2006, 11:04

One slight bit of good news. Due to heavy advance bookings SQ locally have managed to persuade the powers that be to find them another 777 to offer a daily nonstop service to Changi from when the last 744 operates in on 28 December, until 22 January when it reverts to 5 times a week nonstop as planned.

Although only temporary, this is quite a result bearing in mind how short of aircraft SQ will be from the end of December.

TURIN

29th Nov 2006, 15:43

Page 3, post #57
G-I-B & Scottie Dog
The flight goes to a daily B777 for the period 29 December-22 January according to the Singapore Airlines timetable and then back to 5 per week. The last B744 is on Thursday,December 28th.
Playamar

Helps to read the thread!!:rolleyes:

Vuelo

29th Nov 2006, 18:18

Fantastic if it happens, and a good step forward is that the Saudi and Kenyan flights are already in the AMOSS system for next summer. Saudi twice a wek via Geneva and Kenyan three times a week via Paris. Pencilled in for T1.

From what I hear KQ has got a slot for a 1000hrs arrival.

Vuelo

29th Nov 2006, 20:58

fly start the expansion process at MAN with new routes announced to Rennes, Brest and Glasgow.

AlphaWhiskyRomeo

30th Nov 2006, 05:44

The Glasgow route must be the BaCon flights they are taking over, looking at the number of daily flights????

john11

30th Nov 2006, 15:08

so is it confirmed that kenyan and saudi are operating next year.

jay_hl

5th Dec 2006, 11:26

Please dont shoot me down, as I havent used the search button as I need an answer quickly.

When will Manchester's Runways Change officially and to what!

Thanks everyone

Johnny F@rt Pants

5th Dec 2006, 12:16

It will change to 23/05 left and right on 7th June 2007.

jay_hl

5th Dec 2006, 12:37

Johnny F@rt Pants: It will change to 23/05 left and right on 7th June 2007.

Cheers, thanks for that!

initial

5th Dec 2006, 15:39

Austrian Airlines are to introduce a weekly Innsbruck service from 23rd Dec

OS9351 arrives 09.20 Saturdays
OS9352 departs 11.15 Saturdays

Sky Europe are withdrawing Salzburg at end of winter season, leaving only TOM twice weekly over the summer.

TURIN

6th Dec 2006, 19:49

so is it confirmed that kenyan and saudi are operating next year.
Probably just a code share.
Kenyan and KLM etc.

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

7th Dec 2006, 07:58

Manchester November figures

Nice to see pax figures back in the positive even if it is just less than 2%

G-I-B

RoyHudd

7th Dec 2006, 20:11

What happens to the high-frequency BE/BA traffic, once they merge? Anyone got hard info yet?

Ringwayman

13th Dec 2006, 17:38

New Irish service starts next year: Aer Arann 4 weekly to Sligo.
And Ryanair have confirmed expansion of MAN operations: an extra weekly service to Shannon to make it 4 weekly.

Scottie Dog

13th Dec 2006, 18:03

Reports on another site suggest that major changes to Terminal 1 will happen around Easter 2007.

The story is that a new security screening hall will be built above the MyTravel checkin hall and that the whole of the main concourse from the foreign exchange bureau on the link bridge will become 'airside'.

It does make sense in a way, as this appears to work fine at Heathrow Terminal 4 where there are very few shops on the landside. With the cost of car parking I suspect that friends and family would be better off financially just dropping of their pasengers and then going straight home!!

wiccan

13th Dec 2006, 18:52

I too have heard that Scottie....but where ate ATC going to get their butties from?.Will the corridor from T1-T3 be Air or Landside?
bb

Momentary Lapse

13th Dec 2006, 20:31

Using the shell of the proposed extension they were going to use for the new check in hall I suppose? Saves having to make a tricky connection into the baggage system, but where will future check in capacity go now, or do they expect self service check in / internet check in to save the day?

It's a good idea, removing the need to put security upstairs in the Lancaster area, with escalators and lifts, which with an increased risk of breakdown and bottlenecks, could upset passengers of reduced mobility or with pushchairs/wheely bags.

Nice bit of thinking that. Well done, MAPLC.

Railgun

13th Dec 2006, 21:51

SSK's are just a stop gap measure. The future of air travel is home checkin and internet boarding cards.

Man_User

14th Dec 2006, 10:39

Scottie your right, there will be a corridor from where travelx is thrn accros and above the mytravel/jet2 check-in hall, this will carry on through the offices above the checkin hall, as i am working from one of these offices and we are to be moved 'soon'.

Easter 07 sounds about right, when it gets busy.....:ugh:

Ringwayman

14th Dec 2006, 19:52

New VLM service to Rotterdam starts 26th Feb, operates 11 weekly (2 daily Mon-Fri and a single Sun)

BYALPHAINDIA

14th Dec 2006, 21:01

682ft AMSL

15th Dec 2006, 10:00

Jet2 have added a daily Prague service for next summer. Could be a bit of a bun fight with WW and CSA.
682

682ft AMSL

15th Dec 2006, 10:12

...accommodated it seems by dropping Warsaw.

jongeman

15th Dec 2006, 14:06

Not a good move by Jet2 there. PRG passenger figures have been contracting this year (everyone's already been there).

I hope we're not about to see another situation like BCN a couple of years ago, where too much capacity will lead to OK WW pulling out.

It's unfortunate to see LS chasing after the same old destinations. Similar to the problem down at BHX, where incumbent airlines are often accused of failing to find new and interesting places to fly their planes.

OltonPete

15th Dec 2006, 16:39

jongeman

Spot on about BHX, there has been some relief in the last few weeks with Rome, Lisbon Dubrovnik, Waterford and Marseille announced (although two out the five have been served before).

BHX - PRG load factors averaged between 70-80% all year before OK
pulled out. It had reasonable amounts of pax up front and 5-20 transfers per flight but yields killed it (I assume the front end were not all full fare
paying) and with Cork being or been pulled, Glasgow gone it could be bad news for the route.

Pete

GrahamK

15th Dec 2006, 16:51

I understand SkyEurope may be set to announce a new MAN-VIE flight.

Mr A Tis

15th Dec 2006, 19:54

Bit of a surprise there Jet 2 dropping MAN- Warsaw before it even starts !! Surely the Prague is already saturated?
I would have thought Munich, Vienna, Bilbao, Tallin or Riga would have been more interesting & challenging for Jet 2.

Can't see Sky Europe on the VIE, surely that would compete with their own Bratislava service. All their flights use Bratislava not Vienna.

GrahamK

15th Dec 2006, 20:22

If you go onto the SkyEurope website, look for Vienna (VIE) and Manchester comes as part of a large list...

Mr A Tis

15th Dec 2006, 20:29

Re Sky Europe, I think if you look at it, the "flight" number is a BUS that takes you to from Vienna to Bratislava airport for the flight.
Always has been & still is.

jongeman

15th Dec 2006, 21:22

Spot on about BHX, there has been some relief in the last few weeks with Rome, Lisbon Dubrovnik, Waterford and Marseille announced (although two out the five have been served before).

BHX-LIS is one that I've missed, but now notice that it's a new WW route. Hopefully expect to see BE announcing OSL and ARN. 2007 is looking better already for BHX.

I'm disappointed about MAN-WAW because it was the one service I was planning on using next year. This route was primarily for Poles, like all UK - Polish routes, so was it a little premature to expect them to book so soon in advance? Flights to Spain during peak periods and school holidays get booked up very early, but not so VFR routes like to WAW and KRK.

dwlpl

16th Dec 2006, 09:31

This route was primarily for Poles, like all UK - Polish routes, so was it a little premature to expect them to book so soon in advance?

You can book Liverpool/WAW (daily at times in 2007) all the up to mid September 2007 with Wizz Air.

OltonPete

16th Dec 2006, 09:53

jongeman

Yes Lisbon from BHX was a nice surprise although it was apparently on
the airports hit list.

You have also mentioned another one - Stockholm.

November CAA provisional stats: - Manchester Stockholm 8000 +
Birmingham - Stockholm Nil

I think flybe were rumoured to be looking at Scandinavia after the DUO
collapse and SAS pulling the Dash 8 from the Stockholm.

Pete

Evileyes

18th Dec 2006, 15:24

Lets discuss MAN issues here and BHX ones on their thread please.

Cheers,
The Mods

Charlie Roy

19th Dec 2006, 15:45

Sky Europe today announced that they will base 2 aircraft at Vienna airport and operate 16 destinations from there.

However Manchester is not featured in this list of 16 destinations :ouch:

jongeman

19th Dec 2006, 20:12

Lets discuss MAN issues here and BHX ones on their thread please.
Cheers,
The Mods

A mere one post comparing Manchester and Birmingham is perfectly legitimate in either thread, especially if you read the context in which they were being discussed!!!!

Charlie Roy - I'm not surprised that NE haven't included MAN from VIE because of the Bratislava service. It's an interesting development because VIE has so far been largely left behing by LCCs, and SkyEurope is usually reported to be struggling, so VIE could be a good place to open a hub.

I'm wondering at the moment whether BE will continue their inherited MAN-VIE route. It carried 1462 passengers in November on a daily ERJ service, which equates to a load factor of approx. 50%.

wiccan

19th Dec 2006, 20:47

More than one BHX post.....:suspect:
As to the 50% load on VIE, the ERJs AFAIK, were "leased" at a "not very advantagious rate"...so the Dash8Ds "should be quite competitive....:ok:
bb

Scottie Dog

21st Dec 2006, 14:48

Sabre CRS shows PK709/710 Wed/Fri operating with 777-300 effective 3rd January.

These are LHE/MAN terminating flights.

Scottie Dog

AlphaWhiskyRomeo

21st Dec 2006, 16:35

Sabre CRS shows PK709/710 Wed/Fri operating with 777-300 effective 3rd January.
These are LHE/MAN terminating flights.
Scottie Dog

Whose 773 is that? Or are they due to be getting their own one?

I know they are using an MH 772 at the moment, but didn't know there were any 773s knocking around for lease.

Adola69

21st Dec 2006, 23:53

Charlie Roy;Sky Europe today announced that they will base 2 aircraft at Vienna airport and operate 16 destinations from there.
However Manchester is not featured in this list of 16 destinations :ouch
Possibly because Austrian Airlines have applied for 3 / day slots VIE-MAN from April 2007 with FK70 aircraft. Time will tell !?
Adola:ok:

spud

22nd Dec 2006, 13:50

Manch was one of the few fog free UK airports yesterday but it was good to see that they weren't letting their pax miss out of their share of misery by having an hour long queue at security in T1. The YTS girl telling people that having a magazine in a carrier bag constituted a second cabin bag and wasn't allowed enhanced the overall experience.

Twinning the place with Bombay would be unfair to Bombay's reputation.

Rant over - diving for cover.:ugh:

AlphaWhiskyRomeo

22nd Dec 2006, 14:20

Manch was one of the few fog free UK airports yesterday but it was good to see that they weren't letting their pax miss out of their share of misery by having an hour long queue at security in T1. The YTS girl telling people that having a magazine in a carrier bag constituted a second cabin bag and wasn't allowed enhanced the overall experience.
Twinning the place with Bombay would be unfair to Bombay's reputation.
Rant over - diving for cover.:ugh:
I found it ok last week, but I did fly out on a Sunday.
Fog due overnight and tomorrow I believe.

gms1991

24th Dec 2006, 10:45

Could Manchester do with a second airport?

MAN is getting very busy, and cannot offer good enough rates to attract EZY or other LC airlines into the airport. Jet2 and BMIBaby are giving it a good go, but a second airport would provide the carriers with better turnarounds (if it was smaller) and better landing rates.

Glasgow, which attracts less traffic than Manchester, has two airports Glasgow International and Glasgow Prestwick. How can Glasgow sustain two airports, where as Manchester has to do with one?

Would be very pleased to hear thoughts.

MichaelDoyle

24th Dec 2006, 10:50

I can see your point.If this was to happen,possibily convert Woodford into a LCC base by extending the runway/apron and also build a terminal.

sisyphus1965

24th Dec 2006, 10:56

I thought they already did - at Speke!!!

MichaelDoyle

24th Dec 2006, 11:08

Suppose Ryanair could market it as:
Liverpool/Manchester West

Penworth

24th Dec 2006, 11:40

Yeah, and Liverpool is closer to Manchester than "Glasgow" Prestwick is to Glasgow!

gms1991

24th Dec 2006, 11:47

Liverpool is definately strong enough for Ryanair to call it Liverpool. Manchester would probably make no difference at all.

A new airport in Manchester would cement the city as the second city of UK. Would be great for the economy.

If a new airport was opened, and offered same rates and facilities as LPL, does anybody think either FR or EZY would transfer, being able to fly to a far bigger city for the same prices?

Skipness One Echo

24th Dec 2006, 12:24

Why in the world spend billions on a new airport when the old one isn't close to capacity?

gms1991

24th Dec 2006, 12:32

We never said anything about replacing MAN. I think that there should be a SECOND airport. Maybe, like MichaelDoyle said, take Woodford and do a majopr revamp and runway extension. This wouldn't cost billions! Maybe 20 million.

Mr A Tis

24th Dec 2006, 12:53

..and how do you think the aircraft into this second airport would dovetail into the airspace around the Manchester TMA? The expansion at very close Liverpool makes the airspace around Manchester complex & congested as it is. Add in Blackpool & Leeds & you have very complicated airspace with everyone climbing, descending & crossing each other. We already have far too many airports in the UK as it is. Do we need a Liverppol AND a Manchester? Do we need Birmingham, Coventry AND East Mids? Do we need Doncaster, Leeds AND Humberside?

mmeteesside

24th Dec 2006, 13:07

..and how do you think the aircraft into this second airport would dovetail into the airspace around the Manchester TMA? The expansion at very close Liverpool makes the airspace around Manchester complex & congested as it is. Add in Blackpool & Leeds & you have very complicated airspace with everyone climbing, descending & crossing each other.

Well there is an answer to that, make flight times longer by introducing new routes, don't know how easy it would be, but, for example, MME-LHR flights currently go through the Manchester TMA when they could be routed east of it before crossing over to the west further south. Lower EDI-LCY (Scot Airways Dornier 328's) could route down the east coast to use the STAR into LCY around the Southend area.

mmeteesside

take-off

24th Dec 2006, 13:14

as a person living in blackpool, why should manchester get an extra airport, when there is spare capacity at local airports? i.e liverpool and blackpool .shouldnt manchester be the hub of the northwest with the local airports picking up th extra capacity, all it would do is put extra strain on ther road network around the manchester area, surelyif people travel from all over the northwest to man , what would the difference being for them to travel to lpl or blk?
And looking at it from a green enviromentally friendly side , and new airport is hardly goint make matters any better? Im not in aviation but just my point of view ,feel free to rip it to bits .

Merry Xmas

gms1991

24th Dec 2006, 13:28

I am a great believer in local airports such as BLK and LPL. I think that every part of the country should be able to access the world from an airport within 30 mins car distance.

BUT, if Manchester is to compete with cities like Glasgow and Birmingham, it needs to strengthen it's worldwide transportation links. The Olympics are arriving in the UK in 2012, now we have all seen the nightmare at MAN when the Champions League Final was held at Old Trafford a few years back. Imagine the airport like that for 2 months! Would drive normal passengers mad, seeing hundreds of extra planes delaying their flights due to eco-friendly restrictions and slot requirements.

If Manchester is to keep upto date with the latest in world transportation, then surely LC airlines need to have more of a presence in the city. Another airport would ease traffic at MAN for long-haul and charter, and the new airport would be able to provide the city with the LC links around Europe, if not further.

About the pollution issue. If a new airport was to be built, it would probably be roughly the same size as LPL or EMA. Both of these airports make less pollution than Runway 3 at Heathrow will, and that has been approved by the Government.

Musket90

24th Dec 2006, 13:35

Isn't Manchester's problem that the second runway for many different reasons doesn't meet the capacity demand. Best to look at sorting out the existing airport first.

Funny how two single runway airports in the SE achieve much better traffic figures than Manchester.

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

24th Dec 2006, 14:20

Firstly you could never use Woodford as for each movement there you lose one at Manchester
It`s not just the runway that constrains or adds movements its the taxiways as well, Heathrow has many exits and their airfield layout is very different from Manchester
Gatwick gets more off one runway as does Stanted due to one very big factor, the mix of aircraft as has been mentioned many times before because Manchester is the only one that has a large number of Turboprop and smalljets
(EMB145, CL65 etc) mixing it with a large number of wideboy causing big gaps to be provided

Heathrow will have fun when the A380 starts because a very large gap has to be built in between the following aircraft ( 12 miles I believe at first )

G-I-B

Going loco

24th Dec 2006, 14:41

So your proposal gsm1991 is to invest tens of millions of pounds to build a new airport that looks like Liverpool, will handle all of the traffic that Liverpool has at the moment, putting that airport out of business, and to make sure it is closer to Manchester than the current 40 minute drive it takes to get from Manchester to Liverpool airport.

A wild guess here, but is the 1991 in your user name the year of your birth by any chance?

loco

ManchesterMan

24th Dec 2006, 14:52

The silly season continues.............

MM

MichaelDoyle

24th Dec 2006, 16:04

Maybe move LS,WW and other LCC carriers alredy based at MAN to Woodford as a LCC base but to say that EZY and FR can't use it as a base so it wont effect LPL.Or if EZY move like they wanted to let FR develop LPL as a major base like STN.

Ronaldsway Radar

24th Dec 2006, 16:57

Manchester and Liverpool still have plenty of capacity. The focus should be on using available capacity to the most efficient way possible before spending millions on a new airport in the nearby vicinity. (And that's not a dig at ATC or ground handling at either airport who do a great job under pressure as it is)!

And regarding re-routing flights...!

"Hi is that Ryanair? Hi I'm the Manchester Airport General Manager, would you mind re-routing your flights around the north a bit to free up some space to land aircraft at Manchester?"

Sorry can't see any airline at all agreeing to re-route flights on a longer route wasting hundreds of thousands of £££'s each year to allow an extra few aircraft per hour land at their destination.

Then again, I saw mommy kissing Santa last year, who knows what will happen next ;)

Have a great christmas all, do take my post with a pinch of salt or two.

RR

Lite

24th Dec 2006, 17:52

Manchester still has plenty of capacity available, and I can't admit to having read their masterplan, but can imagine that the airport authority and government understand that there must be expansion to coincide not only with the Olympics like you mention but also the fairly big number of passengers the country can expect in 2012 for the Olympics.

However, it's important to consider a couple of things. There is still capacity at airports which might be considered in the region, ie where pax using MAN currently fly from. These not only include "north-westerly" airports like BLK and LPL, but also airports within a 90-minute drive such as EMA & LBA. Also, air travel on some routes will diminish freeing up slots. Improved train links from Manchester to London and Scotland for example, won't mean an end to these routes, but maybe a contraction of capacity as more people use rail.

Bagso

24th Dec 2006, 18:29

...do u know something we don't ?

I cannot see why we would need 2nd airport but there has been lots of local gossip about Hawarden....

45 mins from Manchester and Liverpool, can easily handle up to A320 and I guess would be dirt cheap with BAe looking to exploit any opportunity.

,,,,and far enough away to avoid airspace issues.

LBIA

24th Dec 2006, 18:35

Manchester has already two airports, Well i really mean a international airport at Ring Way but how about developing BARTON airfield into an regional airport. Good connnections to the motaway network (M62) as well as the trafford and Salford area's of greater MAN.

bmibaby.com

24th Dec 2006, 19:42

Manchester does not need another airport. As has already been mentioned there are plenty of existing opportunities on the airport site for further expansion, and the airport itself has arguably struggled over recent years to get a strong foothold into the longhaul and low-cost markets, though this is beginning to change. Spill-over capacity from when MAN does reach full capacity, which is still some time away, can come in the form of LPL & BLK as has already been stated. Also consider the fact, and sorry to call anything north of Watford Gap the north, that there are two struggling airports in the form of Sheffield which is on the brink of closure and Humberside which is just keeping its head above the water. There is already capacity which can be found from existing UK airports, and when the time is right, this capacity will be reached not by launching new airports but expanding existing ones.

wawkrk

25th Dec 2006, 07:16

Why extend the runway at Woodford ?
It`s already the same length as Liverpool. 7,519 ft.

Whitehatter

25th Dec 2006, 09:49

Extend the taxiways between 24R/06L and 24L/06R and build a cow shed for the lowcosts over on the South Side, fed by the Wilmslow Road and an extension of the Heald Green bypass.

Problem solved and no need to open anything else in Cheshire with the NIMBYs howling at full throttle. Doing any kind of airline related expansion at Woodford would unleash a s**tstorm of planning objections and all kinds of Swampy protests.

There also isn't the road infrastructure in the Woodford area to handle the traffic. Sticking a new (cheap) terminal up that hill from the Moat House could be a good plan, but the Powers That Be don't always think in straightforward terms, do they? :*

Sir George Cayley

25th Dec 2006, 13:45

...Manchester has 2 airports and Ringway is the second!
Forget Woodford on two counts
1) BAe - nuff said, couldn't organise it.
2) The Air traffic scenario. Their ops are dependant and MAN and would be adversely affected, nullifying the advantage.
Barton is likely to fill the niche market for Business/top end GA that will enivitably get squeezed at MAN. Early morning departure slots ad hoc are already getting hard to come by.
Once Peel ease LAC out of the way (Mar April 07) expect a master plan that shows a lit hard surface rwy. With GPS non-precision approaches just over the horizon the small number of lost landings will outweigh the savings in an ILS.
2010 or there abouts. Bet ya!
Sir George Cayley

Scottie Dog

25th Dec 2006, 14:43

Went to get some fresh air to clear the head this afternoon and noticed a couple of planning application notices on Ringway Road.

One related to the demolition of the thatched cottage opposite the 24R holding bay. The second and more interesting was with regards to the closure/diversion of Ringway Road and the revised use of said road and parts of the longstay carpark for Aprons.

Whilst I did make a note of the website, I failed to note the application number (possibly a job for tomorrow?), and a search of the Manchester City planning site produced no hits.

Anybody got any more information.

Oh, and before I forget, Happy Christmas one and all.

Scottie Dog

Momentary Lapse

25th Dec 2006, 16:01

Christmas is a good time to bury bad news :D

The thatched cottage is a listed building, so an inquiry will be required. It's been boarded up for years, yet strangely none of the local wildlife ever broke in and burned it down. I hope it can be saved, or at least relocated elsewhere for posterity.

MAN desperately needs more apron, and old Ringway Road is not really needed now except to access internal sites that will be demolished anyway. Pity they didn't buy the land near the Etrop Grange that the two carparks are on, or the site that's now an empty business park, when they had the chance.

I believe some people were trying to get B217 listed due to its importance in WW2. Where did that campaign get to?

Momentary Lapse

25th Dec 2006, 16:10

There is capacity overall in the NW. If people want to fly, they'll find a route somewhere that meets their needs of convenience and cost.

If airlines find demand for a route pair, they'll supply a route from a NW airport to meet it.

MAN is a mature airport as recent pax figures show. Any capacity for new routes/pax will be at a higher marginal cost, and lower marginal efficiency/convenience/ease of use.

It is more likely that other NW airports with capacity to provide it to airlines and pax at a lower marginal cost & a greater marginal benefit will grow to increase overall NW capacity.

That's the free market. It's only political influencing that distorts it; something MA PLC has always been good at.

Scottie Dog

25th Dec 2006, 16:45

[QUOTE=Momentary Lapse;3037121]Christmas is a good time to bury bad news

Actually the notices - if I remember correctly are dated 7th November. I'm surprised that nobody has raised the subject on this thread before. Obviously we should all get out and about more - rather than driving and sailing past notices of importance!!

Momentary Lapse

25th Dec 2006, 17:31

Maybe we should! Merry Christmas.

7th November? You gotta watch those Tuesdays! Crafty blighters.

AUTOGLIDE

26th Dec 2006, 06:48

What would be the point? You can fire a cannon down the runways at MAN most of the time without much risk of hitting anything.
Another airport equals extra cost and duplication in terms of ATC/OPS/Engineering/Ramp Handling etc, when all these things are already available at MAN. Plus the chances of building another airport in the UK in the present climate are considerably lower than bugger all.

TechProblem

26th Dec 2006, 09:21

As some people have said, manchester dosent need a new airport, the 'Terminal 4' issue at manchester has been talked about for ages, but just to build it for low cost carriers wouldn't be very cost effective.

I personal dont think there is a need for t4, maybe a revamp of t1 (ie the piers) would do ringway much better.

O and the reason Manchester is more expensive than lpl, just look at last week (ie week b4 christmas). I didnt hear of any flights diverting to lpl :p

Scottie Dog

26th Dec 2006, 09:38

Thanks to a member of another site for providing the correct application number and date for access to the plans for Terminal 3 apron expansion plans.

The link for the application is as follows:

www:manchester.gov.uk/planning/publicaccess. Go to applications and the application number is 081134/FO/2006/S2.

As would eb expected there are a large number of documents to be perused and very informative they are.

Scottie Dog

gms1991

26th Dec 2006, 09:40

O and the reason Manchester is more expensive than lpl, just look at last week (ie week b4 christmas). I didnt hear of any flights diverting to lpl :p

This is because there is no space available at LPL. MAN can guarantee space and 10000ft runway operations. ATC would find the easiest way to land the aircraft, i.e) EZY at BLK instead of MAN. Also, during that week, LPL was closed!

Also look at :

http://www.uk-airport-news.info/stansted-airport-news-241206.htm

MAN777

26th Dec 2006, 10:10

MAN already has a lo cost terminal. Its called T3. It was built on a tight budget, check out the painted breeze block walls and lino floors ! Baby already use it and as soon as that BACON lot move out its open for Flybe.

T1 as much as they tart it up and adapt its still a 1960s building that is not on par with modern terminals.

If money could be made available I think that T3 should be expanded ASAP (as per plans) T2 extended to the west and then T1 completely knocked down and rebuilt.

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

26th Dec 2006, 11:00

Yes I agree T1 is such a mish mash of extension and extension on top of the old building

G-I-B

Mr A Tis

26th Dec 2006, 11:02

MAN777 is pretty much right. Now BA has thrown the towel in, all Lo Co ops should move to T3. All longhaul & full service / legacy scheduled operators (DLH,SAS etc) moved to T2. Leaving T1 for charter & pseudo scheduled operators MON,MYT,TOM etc).
Mind you T2 is in desperate need of gate seats with cushions as the present seating has disintergrated.
Sell Humberside & Bournemouth & raise some cash, so that T1 can be virtually demolished & rebuilt. It fails on every count as a modern terminal. Falling apart, leaking, creaking, umpteen different levels & a nightmare obsticle course, how long can you go on patching up a 1960s building?:sad:

The AvgasDinosaur

26th Dec 2006, 13:41

Can anyone tell me the dates that 20/02 and 28/10 were NOTAMd as closed to traffic and what was the last movement either in and or out.
Thanks in anticipation.
Be lucky
David

initial

28th Dec 2006, 11:39

Norwiegian adding a third weekly flight to Bergen on a Wednesday from the start of the summer 07 timetable.

TechProblem

28th Dec 2006, 11:50

Airside work has started on the new food court area, the old area by security will be turned into more security space, once the new one is finished.

The new area is going to be above where Starbucks was (starbucks will be in the same place once its all finished).

Burger King and all round that area is going to go upstairs in the new part of T1. Not sure when its all going to be finished, id hazard a guess at early summer 07.

Bagso

2nd Jan 2007, 11:58

Well nice start to 2007 with Air Asia and Jestar possibly looking at Manchester.

With Long Haul in the South East saturated what do people think about MAN as the UKs potential lo cost long haul hub ?

With a massive network already in place based mainly on domestic and European services, the opportunities for locost long haul to India, Hong Kong, rest of far east Australia, must be massive, especially as yields from 1st class should not be a factor.

Lucifer

2nd Jan 2007, 14:36

especially as yields from 1st class should not be a factor.
Why not? That is precisely the attraction of London (though it required so as to cover the greater costs of operating these).

If it makes money, someone will do it - but don't bank on the network being there as an attraction. It has to be sustainable from a local point of view to be worth doing - as Austrian Airlines have proven by now withdrawing from longhaul travel. India/Pakistan - possible - but consider that market is already taken care of by some airlines.

Joe Curry

2nd Jan 2007, 16:59

Well nice start to 2007 with Air Asia and Jestar possibly looking at Manchester.
With Long Haul in the South East saturated what do people think about MAN as the UKs potential lo cost long haul hub ?
With a massive network already in place based mainly on domestic and European services, the opportunities for locost long haul to India, Hong Kong, rest of far east Australia, must be massive, especially as yields from 1st class should not be a factor.

One of the relevent articles:confused: stated that other UK airports were being considered?

nt639

2nd Jan 2007, 17:47

Looks like Air Asia will be Stansted!

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlebusiness.aspx?type=businessNews&storyID=2007-01-02T032425Z_01_KLR134773_RTRUKOC_0_UK-AIRASIA.xml&WTmodLoc=Business-C1-Headline-1

Momentary Lapse

2nd Jan 2007, 17:48

What are MAN management doing to combat the security queues to ensure people have enough time to spend shopping in the new retail outlets?

It looks like the new hand-baggage and search requirements are here to stay, which will lengthen everyone's time being processed through security.

How much has the "passenger per hour" rate been hit? How much new security capacity is being provided just to stand still and protect the airside retail investment?

I hope the Board are asking these questions of management.

Anyone here have the answers?

pwalhx

2nd Jan 2007, 18:23

I went through T2 about 6.00 am Friday, queue was quite long but moved quite quickly, ally the scanners were manned and working.

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

2nd Jan 2007, 21:24

I would think that Air Asia thought of Manchester first as one of their planes is already in Manchester Utd colours and with a very big market in Asia for football fans of UK teams it should be interesting to see what traffic comes this way

(even Stockport County has a fan base in China )

G-I-B

TechProblem

2nd Jan 2007, 22:56

Momentary Lapse, The security point in T1 is in its first part of expansion, this is soon, if not already, is now up and running. Now all the airport need is more security staff to man them :)

The second stage will come once the new food court is finished and the old one is coverted into more security space.

chiglet

2nd Jan 2007, 23:51

G.I.B. An Air Asia A320 in Man U colours :yuk: ...So.... It's a heck of a loong way from Manch to [anywhere in] Asia...especially in an A320 :ugh:
Get REAL
watp,iktch

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

3rd Jan 2007, 00:09

Chiglet
That is not what I am getting at, never suggested using an Air Asia A320
What I said is that they have a close link with Manchester through Manchester United and it just happens that they are involved with a sponsorship deal and the plane is in Man U colours which of course happened to visit Manchester last summer

There is a great market for fans from Asia to come to Manchester as fans do from Scandinavia in there droves, now if the fares are right it might make feasible to come from KUL, after all if these fares that are being banded around are not much different than a train fare from London

Sorry if my previous mail wasn`t clear

ManchesterMan

4th Jan 2007, 14:13

Has anybody heard of the TLV travel club hoping
to start a weekly Sunday service sometime in April/May
this year.............?

MM

Whitehatter

4th Jan 2007, 14:22

There were some rumblings about Arkia doing a once-weekly MAN-TLV service. Presumably that's the one.

IJUSTWORKHERE

4th Jan 2007, 18:33

Airside work has started on the new food court area, the old area by security will be turned into more security space, once the new one is finished.

The new T1 OBC will be above the MY Travel/Jet2 Check-in hall. The entrance to this will be where the Travelex is located. Once paxs have gone through security they will enter the concourse opposite the Impulse record shop. This means that the existing landside concourse will now be airside. The existing OBC will be opened up and this area along with the new area above Starbucks will be all Retail.

Fingers and toes crossed tomorrow when I hope Air Asia will be announcing a daily A340-600 flight from MAN to KUL

This looks interesting from the Manchester City Councils web page

http://www.publicaccess.manchester.gov.uk/associateddocs/selecteddoc.aspx?081134-DSP-0002.pdf

IJWH

AlphaWhiskyRomeo

5th Jan 2007, 14:37

BBC News North West announcing Air Asia is very likely to start a KUL-MAN service, and interviewed an industry professional who said he believed than MAN would get the nod over a London airport.

pb115

5th Jan 2007, 16:23

The new T1 OBC will be above the MY Travel/Jet2 Check-in hall. The entrance to this will be where the Travelex is located. Once paxs have gone through security they will enter the concourse opposite the Impulse record shop. This means that the existing landside concourse will now be airside. The existing OBC will be opened up and this area along with the new area above Starbucks will be all Retail.

IJWH
If the new OBC details are true,how do Pax arriving by bus,coach or train get from the skylink to T3?:ooh:

pb115

5th Jan 2007, 17:22

[quote=IJUSTWORKHERE;3050954]The new T1 OBC will be above the MY Travel/Jet2 Check-in hall. The entrance to this will be where the Travelex is located. Once paxs have gone through security they will enter the concourse opposite the Impulse record shop. This means that the existing landside concourse will now be airside. The existing OBC will be opened up and this area along with the new area above Starbucks will be all Retail.

How will Pax who arrive by Train,bus or coach get from the syklink to T3?http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/infopop/icons/icon9.gif

gms1991

5th Jan 2007, 17:33

Has AirAsia's 'big announcement' taken place yet?

airhumberside

5th Jan 2007, 18:09

BBC News North West announcing Air Asia is very likely to start a KUL-MAN service, and interviewed an industry professional who said he believed than MAN would get the nod over a London airport.

Plus the MAN-KUL route is now unserved and a stop en-route could help fill the plane. I am assuming Air Asia would offer connections at KUL, or are they strictly point to point?

gms1991

5th Jan 2007, 21:47

the MAN-KUL route is now unserved and a stop en-route could help fill the plane. I am assuming Air Asia would offer connections at KUL, or are they strictly point to point?

I firstly agree totally!:D

I am assuming that the MAN KUL will be non-stop, but as another site suggests, the airline is in talks with other LC airlines in Europe and beyond about connection types. This could mean EZY aren't out of the picture. Then again, EZY don't serve MAN at the moment...Jet2...Monarch? Personally I think it will be LS because they serve city destinations aswell as Sun destinations.

The airline want to aquire 20 a/c for the venture, but A333 or B772/3ER are undecided yet. Hoping for a July start! Fares starting from under £2!!! (ex. t&c of course!)

Vuelo

6th Jan 2007, 11:53

From mutterings at MAN I hear it sounds like it is all systems go for the Air Asia routes from Manchester...yes, I did say routes, not route. I understand from a friend in the know that the airline is likely to announce something Monday and KUL, HKT and MNL are all rumoured. Looking forward to seeing what happens! and

Hawk

6th Jan 2007, 19:55

The thread is about Manchester Airport and while obviously that will include references to the football team from time to time, the thread isn't here for any broader football discussion.
Thank you
Mods.

IJUSTWORKHERE

6th Jan 2007, 20:06

How will Pax who arrive by Train,bus or coach get from the syklink to T3?http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/infopop/icons/icon9.gif[/quote]

A lot of senior people are very annoyed that this has been "overlooked" and a scheme is under way to ensure a landside route remains from The Station to T3 as well as landside transfers from T2.

I've heard that there will be no UK route announcement by Air Asia until the end of January once Tony Fernandes and Co have visited UK airports, of which MAN is one.

IJWH

Mr A Tis

6th Jan 2007, 20:12

Thank you Mods.
How do you lug all your bags from "The station" to T3, when T1 becomes virtually all airside- yes, completely overlooked. It is already an obstacle course as it is, maybe the buses will come back?
Next, if you check in with MYT or Jet2, do you queue on the stairs to get into security / airside?
Have all these issues been thought through? I don't know, as information seems very sparse.
Another issue is the travelators from T2 to "The station". Every night, usually about 8pm, they are all turned OFF. This is to save money, as there are no departures from T2. Meanwhile, every night people struggle with lots of bags over the huge distance, without walkways TO "The Station", no consideration being given to any of the many T2 arrivals at night.
Of course in Germany & the like, travelators are used "on demand"-they STOP auto if no one uses them & start auto when they do.Maybe they cost more...but save on running costs.
Come on MA, flog at least one of your airport "empires" & spend some money at your home base & get Ringway back into the top league where it used to be when Sir Gil ran the show.:D

Vuelo

6th Jan 2007, 20:55

I think we'll see the T3 bus link to and from The Station and T2 reinstated. Can't happen soon enough in my opinion! Will no doubt be combined with the Staff West car park bus?!

TBirdFrank

6th Jan 2007, 21:11

Want to find a surprise pot????

Go and look at the part One compensation budget for Runway Two and see what provision has been made and what has been spent.

If this facility were moved into the investment scenario, once the statute of limitations period expires, then it could do some good instead of just lying around

chiglet

6th Jan 2007, 22:01

Hawk
How's about a "Geographic" Airport/Football thread...Like what I posted
Just a thought. :ok:
watp,iktch

Vuelo

6th Jan 2007, 22:06

Unless any of you boys are prepared to post pictures of yourselves in your footy kit, let;s give soccer a wide berth on here, eh?!

Hawk

7th Jan 2007, 05:34

Hawk
How's about a "Geographic" Airport/Football thread...Like what I posted
Just a thought. :ok:
watp,iktch
Heavens chiglet..you say United is not based in Manchester and Manchester City is based in Manchester. If we do anymore "geographic" we're going to have the Socceroos posting in here soon. :E

PRuNe's moderators have decided members can only make passing references to football on the Manchester Airport thread. I don't think that is unreasonable.

Now for those who want to post about the Airport and not football, can we get back on track.
Thank you

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

7th Jan 2007, 14:58

Still partly on the football front but not being a utd fan do Air Asia normally do as much advertising as they have today at the match? or this this a good way of getting to be known by the public before they announce a Manchester route

G-I-B

SWBKCB

7th Jan 2007, 15:09

That was pretty much standard - doen't think there was any extra to tie in with the recent flurry of interest.

Evileyes

7th Jan 2007, 16:37

To those still a bit fuzzy on the concept of this being an Airport forum and not a football one (particularly the ones that have been deleted since the last Mod post): If you are feeling kamikaze-like do it again.

On the other hand there is now a thread in Jetblast where you can discuss it to your heart's content.

Cheers,
The Mods

Bagso

8th Jan 2007, 17:13

Vuelo -

looks like your contacts gave us the kiss of death unless its old news ...!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6233295.stm?ls

Air Asia have announced London services, no mention of Manchester unless they are doing both and we do not warrant inclusion !

Another one down the pan !

jongeman

8th Jan 2007, 17:42

With an initial order of 'about 20 aircraft', operating initially 2 or 3, it's doubtful that MAN will be one of the first destinations served.

All this speculation about MAN services, on a variety of different sites is driving me nuts, and all for the sake of a dodgy report by a dodgy hack linking Air Asia with an unlikely Virgin and easyjet. Anybody who gets too enthusiastic about the constant annual deluge of unsubstantiated rumours deserves all the disappointment coming to them.

For the time-being, if it's the Far East and Oz/New Zealand you want, there's a reasonable choice of SQ, EK, QR and EY.

Vuelo

8th Jan 2007, 19:56

Well we got an announcement so I guess half of it was right! Shame MAN wasn't mentioned, but we live in hope!

ManchesterMan

8th Jan 2007, 21:39

jongeman

You are forgetting that it is the 'silly season'
- happens every year about this time when
the nights start drawing in and the people
have too much time on their hands sat
hunched over the PC waiting..................
for the next bright idea to hit the keyboard
Still, its a social thing in its own way........

MM

SeamusCVT

8th Jan 2007, 21:42

Forgive me if this quotation has been posted before, but paragraph 13 of the attached URL states:

"FAX chief executive officer Raja Azmi Raja Razali said the first three flights, in July, would be to Manchester, Hangzhou and Tianjin."

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/1/6/nation/16493788&sec=nation

ManchesterMan

8th Jan 2007, 22:33

WOW !!!!

I thought there was a long waiting list to get
new build A330/B777's ?????????

Still give them a chance...........

(Is that better Wan2fly?)
MM

chiglet

8th Jan 2007, 22:41

IF any new flights arrive at Manch, then I hope that all the pax bring their hiking boots. The "Travelator" between the Station and T2 was TOTALLY stopped tonight [10pm] :ugh: :mad:
watp,iktch

Mr A Tis

9th Jan 2007, 06:47

Chiglet, I refer you to post 186 re the T2 travelators, they are ALL switched off after 8pm to save money.

Just another unanswered question re the T1 new airside plans. I doubt whever any of the senior team walk around the terminal at midnight, but if they did, they would find a number of people resting/dozing in chairs.
These are people who travel long distances to fly from MAN & need to overnight in the Terminal ready for 4-5am check-in.
When the terminal becomes all airside, what provision will be made for people like this to wait for check-in? Or has this been overlooked too like the provision of a route from The Station to T3?:rolleyes:

lexxity

9th Jan 2007, 11:21

When the terminal becomes all airside, what provision will be made for people like this to wait for check-in? Or has this been overlooked too like the provision of a route from The Station to T3?

I believe the answer to that is Bewleys or any of the other airport hotels on site. Nobody has forced people to overnight in a terminal.

Mr A Tis

9th Jan 2007, 13:08

believe the answer to that is Bewleys or any of the other airport hotels on site. Nobody has forced people to overnight in a terminal
Well that's a rather simplisttic view, do you work on the airport board?
There are many arrivals by public transport 10/11pm, who need to check in at 4am. Would you fork out the airport hotel rates for just a few hours rest?
It should not be beyond the airports ability to provided restful seating for these people, like they do in many airports around the world.
Making the airport more difficult to use will just put people off & send them elsewhere.
Security queue lines, switching travelators off, obstacle course routes to terminals, lack of adequate seating etc etc these will all contribute to loss of pax unless they are thought through properly & perhaps consult people who work & know the aiport, rather than bean counters who decide these things remotely from the real world.:rolleyes:

ManchesterMan

9th Jan 2007, 14:16

There is always the Travelodge.

You can get a room for £26 in Feb/Apr/June/Sept
and it sleeps 2 adults.......en suite.

Not too expensive I think!

MM

Mr A Tis

9th Jan 2007, 14:29

DOH!!:ugh:
I didn't realise I had to spell it out.
Arrive "The station" 11pm, get bearings, find way to hotel, check in midnight. Check-out 3am to find way back to terminal for 4am check-in, or get a "comfy" airport chair for 4 hours. I thought that was a no brainer.
We are talking convenience & facilities, obviously if you are arriving earlier & checking in later, some of the airport hotel options are good.
All I'm saying is that there should be different options for different situations.
MA seem determined to make travelling from MAN more & more difficult & it now completely revolves around shops rather than a transport terminal.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

spud

9th Jan 2007, 15:23

If you aren't able to book well in advance and can't be very flexible - the Travelodge will be £50. Other airport hotels require an Ocean Finance loan. A nap in a comfy chair wins hands down and shouldn't be too much too ask. Sad to hear that Manch' airport only seems to want people to linger in the security queue.

Vuelo

9th Jan 2007, 17:19

There are over 80 seats in the T1 arrivals area, as well as around 40 in the LS/MYT check in area and lots more in the T3 arivals area near the information desk there.

You can also use the self service check in to check in for your flight the night before then just drop off bags in the morning. There are check in kiosks at The Station.

TechProblem

9th Jan 2007, 18:09

It should not be beyond the airports ability to provided restful seating for these people, like they do in many airports around the world.
Making the airport more difficult to use will just put people off & send them elsewhere.
Well it seems to work in T2, apart from the bit above secuirty, (which alot of people dont know about) there isnt any seating on the depaurtes level, doesnt seem to put people going out of T2.

Security queue lines, switching travelators off, obstacle course routes to terminals, lack of adequate seating etc etc these will all contribute to loss of pax unless they are thought through properly & perhaps consult people who work & know the aiport, rather than bean counters who decide these things remotely from the real world.:rolleyes:

Security queue's have only started because of the new secuirty measures, and only at peak times, and the reason for taking more space is to put in a better secuirty search area, not so people can sleep in the airport and take up 5 seats. Ok its also for more shops to, but there in the business of making money. I, for one, think its a good idea.

chiglet

9th Jan 2007, 18:41

Tech Problem
Ok its also for more shops to, but there in the business of making money. I, for one, think its a good idea
Sooo, I "check in my bags" and get my boarding card. I then go "Airside" and I see a "Sale"...of..Clothing. So I [impulse] buy two pairs of trousers, and two sweatshirts for £30...bargain :ok:
Question, bearing in mind that I have "hand luggage"...How do I get my [B]bargains[B] onto the aeroplane?
watp,iktch

Mr A Tis

9th Jan 2007, 19:02

The ONLY reason T1 airside is moving is because the T1 landside shops lost a fortune last year.
If you think queues only appear at peaks, then you obviously don't use T1 very much. Severe queues are likely anytime, the last time I went through-3 of the x ray/search areas were closed-despite long queues, so a bigger area won't help.
The same search criterea are now in use EU wide, I haven't experienced any delays going through Hamburg, Cologne, Berlin, Barcelona or Salzburg over the last month.

StoneyBridge Radar

9th Jan 2007, 19:34

Security queue's have only started because of the new secuirty measures, and only at peak times,
What a load of utter Bullocks Coaches.
Security has been run on a thread string for years. It's an attitude of "Bugger the passengers; we only see most of them once a year."
MAN is a dump. I never, ever in my wildest dreams thought I would ever say that, but as someone who was on the North of England Regional Consortium and wrote regularly in support of MAN (especially in the 80's when the Stansted enquiry was ongoing), I hate to say, Manchester does not deserve either respect or patronage from any new operator until they get back to basics and remember their primary function and respect their income stream.
Stoney

FlyZB

9th Jan 2007, 20:02

The main reason why security queues are often so long is because passengers are still trying to take prohibited items in their handluggage. This is despite them being told at checkin, at the security prep point and on massive bright green posters dotted around the terminals what they can and cannot take. Maybe security is being run on a shoestring and maybe improvements can be made but queues are still forming even when all the x-rays and archways are being used. The airport has to follow the Dft regulations, as do all UK airports, and if passengers are trying to take items through that they shouldn't, then of course queues will build up. These regulations are not as strict in Europe so comparing the queues at MAN to places such as Hamburg and Barcelona isn't really a fair comparison.

With regards to the issues about overnight sleeping on chairs then may I remind you that this is an 'Airport' not a hotel. It's function is not to put people up for the night and it is under no obligation to do so. As another poster commented, these facilities are not so widely used in T2/3 and it doesn't cause a problem.

And Mr A Tis, i'm afraid I have to disagree with your comment about people not using MAN because the travellators don't work or the security queues are too long. People generally will favour price and locality to where they live when choosing a departure airport. If a family can save several hundred pounds on a flight/holiday by flying from MAN as opposed to another airport then they're not going to pay the extra to fly from elsewhere just because there are no chairs for them to sleep on at night or whatever!

StoneyBridge Radar

9th Jan 2007, 21:12

FlyZB

9th Jan 2007, 21:49

StoneyBridge Radar, i am not saying this is the sole reason for the queues or in any way using it as an excuse. I do feel extremely sorry for travellers when faced with an hour long queue and believe that it's unacceptable especially at this time of year. However, having worked at the airport for 3 years now I can safely say that in that time at least, I have not seen queues for security anywhere near as bad as they have been over the past 6 months. And the main reason for that is these restrictions. Ok ok, it may not be the sole reason. Under staffing, bad management etc could well play its part. I'm not an expert on security and have no idea of the flows per hour at which passengers should be processed, how many machines should be used in proportion to the number of pax going through, the average waiting time compared to other UK airports etc etc. Perhaps there are people on here that have this knowledge, perhaps there are people that fly more frequently than I do, perhaps there are people on here that are in a much better position to comment and critisise then I am. That's fair enough. But from my own experience of working within the airport, I have to say that these DFT restrictions seem to be the main cause of the problems at the moment. And that is not the airport's fault.

StoneyBridge Radar

9th Jan 2007, 22:09

Then we must agree to disagree, as Terminal 1 and 2 departing pax have long been subject to doing a long and winding Can-Can around the landside shopping areas in the summer for many years, with the occassional zig-zag around the buckets in Terminal 1 placed strategically to collect the unique water feature called "leaking roof."

The end winners, bizarrely, are BA and BD. Terminal 3 has the shortest queues, and many business travellers are actually migrating back to connect out of LGW and LHR; now who would have ever thought that would happen to our proud "airport for the regions"???

Stoney

ManchesterMan

9th Jan 2007, 23:11

SBR

Can you substantiate your last paragraph with any figures please.....
I would like to know your source for this info - with thanks.

MM

PENNINE BOY

9th Jan 2007, 23:34

Have to agree with Stoney on this one!!!!

The place is a HOLE either land side or airside, travelators out of use during the day is a regular thing!!!
Land at night and end up on a remote stand and wait for eternity for buses due to there being only 2 available at times!!!!!!

:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

FlyZB

9th Jan 2007, 23:35

So what you're saying as that many business travellers would rather make an additional stop in London, as opposed to flying direct and waiting in a 30 minute security queue? Hmm, well more fool them! LHR is a nightmare and why anyone would choose to travel through there over MAN given the choice is beyond me. And surely other UK airports experience the same queues that MAN does at peak times? I haven't had the experience of travelling through that many airports in this country so my knowledge is limited but you're not telling me that you can just breeze through LGW security on a busy Saturday morning in August surely?

spud

10th Jan 2007, 07:21

Seems to be a love it or hate it sort of airport. I suspect that those sticking up for it like it because it's their local airport and they're used to it. Most criticsms are based on experience and my fairly consistent experience is that it's not much fun, that T3 is the least of the evils, T1 is third world and the taxiways to 24R are like that old fairground game with the hoop over a squigly wire connected to a buzzer.
Don't know if I'd go to LHR to avoid it though.
ATC has always been good I must say just to add some balance.

Mr A Tis

10th Jan 2007, 08:48

I think you find alot more people are using Liverpool.
I know plenty who do this now, people who live on top of MAN. I too have now booked flights from Liverpool, I live 6 miles from MAN & have worked there for over 25 years.
Security regs are now the same EU wide. Plastic clear bags, single bags etc.I find the German search experience far more extensive than given at MAN, but without the queues. So you can compare MAN with HAM,CGN,BCN,SZG etc & there is no comparison-but to blame the delays on the passengers is frankly laughable.

FlyZB

10th Jan 2007, 10:03

Well, when I travelled through Arrecife a week before Christmas, there was no sign of these restrictions being in place. So either it's come into force in Europe since then or it only affects major airports. Anyway, just to clarify, I wasn't putting blame on the passengers, I was putting blame on the restrictions and the confusion they have caused since the rules changed. There are that many grey areas that even the security staff are unclear on certain rules and if they don't know then the passengers certainly don't stand a chance. And despite what anyone says, I believe this is the major cause of the queuing right now. If you have to stop every single passenger at the security prep area to give them a plastic bag, have to perform extra screening of bags because the passengers have left liquids in there that they didn't know were included in the restrictions & have to send people back to checkin because they don't want to lose their expensive 125ml perfume, then of course you're going to get queuing. And this is mainly down to unclear regulations, not poor airport security. And if you still don't agree with what i'm saying, go and stand by the security preperation point in any of the terminals for several hours. And when you see the amount of people still bringing through restricted items, the amount of people still unclear as to what they can and cannot take through and the delays this is causing, maybe you'll change your minds.

spud

10th Jan 2007, 12:22

The security staff shouldn't be unclear on the regulations - it's their job. The check-in staff do, from my experience, question pax about liquids and tell them clearly what they can take.
I recently spent some time in the T1 queue where pax having a briefcase plus a newspaper in a carrier bag were being harangued by security for having two bags and being told that it wasn't allowed. Result - queue delays due pointless repacking of bags.
Hardly a common sense approach designed to speed people through (or even enhance security).
I'm afraid that I just avoid the place as much as I can.

TechProblem

10th Jan 2007, 14:33

What a load of utter Bullocks Coaches.
Security has been run on a thread string for years. It's an attitude of "Bugger the passengers; we only see most of them once a year."
MAN is a dump.

Sorry to go back a bit here, but, im with you on the airport needs updating, and that is what they seem to be doing with the whole checkin-straight to airside thing.

But are you saying that there a Major queues, ie up to the checkin area, throughtout the day? I think not... Hence my general post about 'Peak times' ie one being 7-9 in the morning.

Its right that the security areas in T1 and T2 have never really been big enough, and last year made it far worse, hopefully when T1 has a full quota of security staff in, i think the queue's will be either faster or they will be less frequent in 07. Although im not sure if the new part of T1 Security is being used as yet beacause Staff have there own channel.

Mr A Tis

10th Jan 2007, 15:04

New EU wide rules came in on Nov 1st. The Canary Isles as always ( ala customs) isn't included as EU.
I can assure you security is very thorough in Germany, but on the other hand very efficient, thus few delays.
Yup, I can confirm, a carrier bag from WH Smith with a Daily Mirror in is always refused at security at MAN as a NOT allowed extra bag, delays ensues whilst they put the newspaper in their carry on, if they put the Dail Mirror under their arm & throw the bag away-they are waved through:confused:

Vuelo

10th Jan 2007, 15:42

Then we must agree to disagree, as Terminal 1 and 2 departing pax have long been subject to doing a long and winding Can-Can around the landside shopping areas in the summer for many years, with the occassional zig-zag around the buckets in Terminal 1 placed strategically to collect the unique water feature called "leaking roof."
The end winners, bizarrely, are BA and BD. Terminal 3 has the shortest queues, and many business travellers are actually migrating back to connect out of LGW and LHR; now who would have ever thought that would happen to our proud "airport for the regions"???
Stoney

And your figures for this come from where, exactly??

ManchesterMan

10th Jan 2007, 16:29

FlyZB

10th Jan 2007, 19:54

I do agree that the 2 bags ruling is crazy, especially as i've just found out that this is not a DFT requirement and is being imposed by the airport itself.

I go along with Manchester Man's comments. For those of you that are no longer satisfied with the facilities that your local airport provides and choose to travel from elsewhere, then fair play and good luck. It is 2007 and we are lucky enough to have that choice. But I for one will still be using MAN as I support my local airport and live less than 10 minutes away so cannot justify travelling to LPL, LBA or wherever else just because the security queues there are shorter.

When all said and done it's what's most important to you. If you feel you can justify travelling that extra distance just to use an airport that has travellators working all the time or whatever, then great go for it. For me it's a matter of convenience. And like myself, there will be many others that continue to use MAN on a regular basis regardless.

StoneyBridge Radar

10th Jan 2007, 21:38

Mr ATis
I see that we can no longer try and convince you to stay
loyal to your 'local' airfield (for local people!) and sadly we
have got to say goodbye to your custom.
I hope that the grass is greener for you and your family
flying from Liverpool.I should not expect you to have any
further problems with your travelling from there.
Happy Happy Happy new year !!
MM
And doesn't that reply smack of the arrogance shown over the last few years with regard to MAN management and their once loyal customer base. How many people in management who had the same smug cock-sure attitude now regret rejecting the advances of the likes of Easyjet only to see them set up shop 30 miles down the road at an airport they used to look down their noses at.
Sadly, the chances of reality setting in at MAN are remote with comments like that quoted still being bandied around.
WRT figures for people choosing LPL, LHR LGW etc now over MAN, I have none, but I am sure CAA stats will show this, as and when they come out. From a personal perspective, I have observed a trend of now seeing people travelling again via LGW or LHR who I have not seen for years and who, like me, were ardent supporters of anything and everything direct out of MAN (and almost always at extra cost), but who are no thoroughly fed up of everything Terminal 1 and 2, that Terminal 3 is now the departure point of choice, whatever the connection point may be down route.
I can't name the company, but a major chemical and pharmaceutical company with MAN as its nearest departure airport now feeds its staff through Liverpool if possible. Their attitude...? No frequent flier parking anymore in T1, awful lounges in T1 and T2, priority luggage never comes out first at MAN, long queues for security. Without what are perceived as essential business perks being delivered, why not safe a huge chunk of revenue over a year and travel down the road to an airport where they can 'enjoy' a similar lack of facilities, but pay lo-cost fares.
Sad, but fact, and until those supporters wearing rose tinted glasses realise that something is seriously awry, MAN has no prospect of gaining/retaining/clawing back the passenger throughflow its location really does merit.
Stoney

StoneyBridge Radar

10th Jan 2007, 21:52

I go along with Manchester Man's comments. For those of you that are no longer satisfied with the facilities that your local airport provides and choose to travel from elsewhere, then fair play and good luck. It is 2007 and we are lucky enough to have that choice. But I for one will still be using MAN as I support my local airport and live less than 10 minutes away so cannot justify travelling to LPL, LBA or wherever else just because the security queues there are shorter.
When all said and done it's what's most important to you. If you feel you can justify travelling that extra distance just to use an airport that has travellators working all the time or whatever, then great go for it. For me it's a matter of convenience. And like myself, there will be many others that continue to use MAN on a regular basis regardless.
And you see, there we go with another passive response which could have come straight from current MAN management.
The reality is that MAN have to get real and have a large dose of liquid reality check.
Are you really so conceited and smug about MAN's status to not value every single person who travels through the airport and who airs an opinion? Are you so convinced of your own argument that the air of dissatisfaction expressed so widely has not sunk in ? Are you really happy to turn your back on even one, single passenger? That, my friend, is the attitude of the old legacy carriers , and see where some of them have ended.
People have been raising issues not because they are trying to snipe or support another airport. The vast majority are MAN fliers, loyal to the core, who have been rebuffed, ignored or patronised by MAN and their attitude to them. There comes a point when enough is simply enough.
I really hate to say this, but MAN had everything going for it in the 80's; good management, good customer base, happy operators. The big mistake was that MAN got smug. They rested on their laurels. They thought domination through aquisition was the best ploy. They thought they didn't need the carriers who would open up the world to Joe Average, and as they lost the plot, they neglected their business fliers in the process.
MAN has more than new roofs and lounges to build; they have alot of bridges to build also, some of which I fear have already burned too much to ever be restored.
Stoney

chiglet

10th Jan 2007, 22:18

On a "lighter" note, the Travelators were working tonight [from the Station to T2] at 1010pm :ok:
watp,iktch

Ringwayman

10th Jan 2007, 22:19

Funny how the CAA October stats show that both LGW and LHR show a decline in passenger numbers on 2005 (LHR being a particularly large fall of 16%). NOt looked at the other months but suspect LHR has been falling for a while.

StoneyBridge Radar

10th Jan 2007, 22:48

Ringwayman

That is more to do with point to point travellers choosing rail...yet again, business travellers.
A previous post used the argument "Sorry to see you are no longer willing to use your local airport."
How lame.

My nearest grocery store is Sainsbury. I get a better shopping experience and better value at Tesco, another 5 miles away. Do I use my local ? No, I use the provider which gives me the best service at the best price and at minimum inconvenience.

If that means I drive past MAN on my way to Liverpool, then so be it.
MAN management.......WAKE UP ! Can you hear the alarm bells yet ?!!
Stoney

StoneyBridge Radar

10th Jan 2007, 22:53

NOt looked at the other months but suspect LHR has been falling for a while.

Perhaps something to do with the fact that BA have converted the shuttle from being a crew bus for it's own long haul staff into a tidy money earner with smaller aircraft but higher yields. See how many BA staff now have to travel on BD for confirmation.

Passenger figures on a route like MAN-LHR can never be used to guage success, and someone so apparently knowledgeable shouldn't try to pull a stunt like that.

Stoney

FlyZB

10th Jan 2007, 23:19

Fair enough Stoney. You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else on here. I could argue further over your latest comments but I see no point. From the discussion over the past few days it has become clear that there are plenty of people with negative views but also people who support the airport too. Perhaps it's fair to say that no matter what an airport the size of MAN does, it cannot please everyone. Best example is the new security area in T1 being built above MyTravel. A good solution to sorting out the security queues that many have gripes with but now many people are voicing their concerns over the lack of landside facilities, most notably chairs for pax to sleep on. No matter what MAN does, it cannot please everyone. There will always be someone who is unhappy with a decision and thinks they could run the airport better. This is why the likes of Liverpool have an advantage. It's smaller, newer and much more manageable. And with considerably fewer pax per annum than MAN it can cater for the individual needs of its passengers with greater ease. Do you really think it would be like this though if it too had 22 million passengers passing through its terminals. Perhaps not...

Anyway, we could all keep going round in circles with this debate. Maybe it's time for something positive. Anyone heard any whisperings regarding new routes? Is it likely that Kenyan and Saudi will be coming in? Last I heard talks were in an advanced stage.

TechProblem

11th Jan 2007, 09:28

Im with you on that ZB.

The ammount of work being done at Manchester will be costing alot of money, and cant be done all at once. Last year the arrivals in T1 was renewed, and the apron renewed throughtout last year and into this.

Never mind the runway resurfacing, then T1 airside is getting a new food court area, then the whole of T1 airside is going to be revamped (apart from the piers-but im sure that is on the list) So things are being done, but they cant just close the airport and build a new one.

Lpl has its advantages, but most are low cost and apart from Flyglobespan and someone else there isn't much chance of going long haul now is there.

dwlpl

11th Jan 2007, 09:34

Lpl has its advantages, but most are low cost and apart from Flyglobespan and someone else there isn't much chance of going long haul now is there.

Who is the someone else?

TechProblem

11th Jan 2007, 16:16

Not sure, it might be in the lpl post. Might have been a American carrier.

MichaelDoyle

11th Jan 2007, 17:29

That other LPL flight is only a charter. To Barbados with TOM

Vuelo

11th Jan 2007, 18:15

Look out for the following new carriers at MAN over the net year - they may well appear!

Kenya Airways
Saudi Arabian
Bellview Airlines

All good stuff for MAN if they do come!

Shed-on-a-Pole

12th Jan 2007, 01:24

For those of you who elect to bypass MAN for the Nirvana that is LPL, fair enough. It's a free market out there. But do remember to keep your £2 in change handy for the turnstiles at LPL security, won't you! Nowhere is perfect.

And as for low fares, have you checked out all the seat-sales currently in progress for ex-MAN flights?

AUTOGLIDE

12th Jan 2007, 06:14

As much as I resent paying £2 for security, it is still better than feeling totally :mad: before you even get to the aircraft as is the case at MAN. Plus, I save the £2 in cheaper parking charges anyway.
I don't care about 'suppporting the local airport'. This local airport is a dump. It's just like the seventies and eighties when we had calls to support British Leyland by buying inferior cars.
If MAN does not have the funds to do a decent job, than sell it to BAA. For all the criticism of LHR it's worth remembering it is pushing through 69 million people a year and making a much better use of it's space and resources than MAN. You can also find somewhere decent to eat which is a rarity at MAN. On a more comparable level, LGW is far and away more pleasent than MAN too.

Bagso

12th Jan 2007, 08:03

Just whilst we are comparing locost versus locost, Manchester has more locost services than Liverpool by a considerable margin.

The fact that ALL liverpool flights are locost sometimes appears to imply that it is the NWests leading loCost airport...

.....it isnt and this is sometimes blurred.

The ratio of locost airlines and destinations is much higher at Manchester...

By implication Manchester which is of course is much larger and has a massive infa structure is now trying to run a major international hub with a fair % of lower income from locost airlines than it did 10-15 years ago and has had to adjust accordingly.

The only comparables are Stansted and LGW but are both subsidised by LHR.

Notwithstanding that, there are still some major cock ups here and there from the management which could be avoided....!

just a thought !

dwlpl

12th Jan 2007, 10:17

For those of you who elect to bypass MAN for the Nirvana that is LPL, fair enough. It's a free market out there. But do remember to keep your £2 in change handy for the turnstiles at LPL security, won't you! Nowhere is perfect.

This has yet to be brought in and I cannot see it being so in the way its been 'publicised'.

IB4138

12th Jan 2007, 13:14

This has yet to be brought in and I cannot see it being so in the way its been 'publicised'.By dwlpl.

Then it is more likely than not to appear! :rolleyes:

Just remember the extra fuel you will use to get to LPL in your car and then a possible extra £2 per pax as well for security reasons.

Sounds like a no brainer.

dwlpl

12th Jan 2007, 14:01

..... not as 'publicised'.

Its (the Security Charge) got to provide something different from what they (the airport) provides to passengers now with the reason being the passenger has already paid the Security Charge within the air fare.

Well thats the explanation given me by a friend who works in Trading Standards.

Curious Pax

12th Jan 2007, 14:08

I read elsewhere that the machines are already installed, but not yet in use. An expensive mistake and egg on someone's face if it doesn't happen.
All this MAN v LPL bickering is pointless. LPL is bound to have a superior overall terminal as they had the benefit of starting from scratch a few years back, whilst MAN (in T1 at least) have to tweak what they have, that is many years older. T2 and T3 are bit less problematic for the same reason. The only way this would be solved would be if MAN copied LHR, and built a new terminal that would give sufficient extra capacity to allow T1 to be closed for a couple of years whilst it was knocked down and rebuilt - financial constraints make that unlikely.
I flew in and out of T1 last weekend, and it could be worse, a lot worse. As usual when travelling from Amsterdam I looked at both EZY and Jet2, compared prices and the relative convenience, and this time opted for MAN (I also use LPL sometimes). The ease of use of the 2 airports is not sufficiently different to push me towards one or the other; the ticket price difference and the distance from the 2 airports to my final destination is.
If both airports were popular to be interlined through eh route to a final destination then the rivalry might be bigger than in the minds of a few locals at each place, but the nature of their respective traffic means that this also is a minute consideration.
This is not to suggest that MAN is a beacon of good service or management, but spotters allied to both MAN and LPL do sometimes demonstrate a stunning ignorance of what matters to 99% of passengers!

wiccan

12th Jan 2007, 20:19

Silly Me :rolleyes:
I "thought" that an "Aviation Security Charge" was already being levied by Grabbing Gordon....:}
bb

ManchesterMan

12th Jan 2007, 21:45

Curious Pax

Thankyou for your well written and considered
post.........I concur with most of what you have
written.

MM

EI-BUD

13th Jan 2007, 05:47

Bagsgo I read your above post and you got me thinking. Yes Manchester airport has more LC flights but In my view the LOW Fares are much more widespread from LPL. Obviously thats because costs are lower, and there is FR and EZY on a big scale from LPL.

Bmibaby is borderline LCC in my view and if it were not classified as LCC would MAN still be a bigger LCC operations airport that LPL?

Jet2 sure are a good example ofLCC they will be leading the way at MAN for a long time to come I think!

FlyZB

13th Jan 2007, 17:08

Just read on another forum that ZB are set to announce some new routes out of MAN within the next couple of weeks. Any ideas as to what these might be? Will there be any surprises from Monarch here or will it be the usual bucket and spade Spanish destinations and, if so, what? They've pretty much got Spain covered now!

dwlpl

13th Jan 2007, 17:13

..... and there is FR and EZY on a big scale from LPL....
Between them, EZY and FR, carry around 400,000 passengers per month now from Liverpool.

emaint2003

14th Jan 2007, 05:02

The problem with MAG is that at the top there are now no aviation people. Very sad really but the bean counters/councillors are most definitely in charge.

Momentary Lapse

14th Jan 2007, 19:41

By dwlpl.
Then it is more likely than not to appear! :rolleyes:
Just remember the extra fuel you will use to get to LPL in your car

Don't forget the large ribbon of population that can get to LPL easier than MAN, e.g. Lancashire, N Wales, Warrington, Skem etc. etc.

MAN has had a monopoly on the region for years. Now the free market has allowed others to reach critical mass (LPL etc) who are providing an interesting alternative, better in some respects and worse in others, but alternatives nonetheless. MAN's figures are therefore slowing and plateauing, but the usual MAN-supporters-but-competition-deniers can't accept that new Reality. "Reality" I say. MAN must accept the Reality and adjust their performance and attitude to compete in the new Reality. That means customer service, usability, price, access, car parking, working infrastructure, delay management etc.