CARDIFF - 3

[caaardiff]

All this talk about NYC/DXB etc. As stated previously, DXB is well served from BHX, less than 2 hrs up the road. EWR is served from BRS, would another operator succeed? Bearing in mind part of the situation is for the airport to attract the operator. But surely its the operator that needs to make the route succeed.
An airline would have to gamble on either making CWL work for them or placing the a/c elsewhere on a possiblly higher earning route. E.G EK placing a Daily A330 into CWL (like NCL) or expanding their route network as someone has mentioned into USA/Africa etc.
Whilst i agree the terminal needs a good sorting out. From a business point of view, would it be commercially viable for Abertis to spend millions on a terminal, just to maybe attract an extra 2/3 long haul routes??
I have to say the new walkway is a load of rubbish. Its like walking through a cold school corridor. Pax are certainly not happy with it. The lack of seating is ridiculous for a boarding area. I assume this is as gates 12-15 are only temporary, Hopefully when the next stage is built out towards BAMC they will build it properly with plenty of space and some basic facilities!
Gate 15 is a waste of time, they could put a basic domestic arrivals hall there, with one, maybe two belts. Simple yet basic, but avoiding the long walk and fiasco situation that immigration are causing with domestic flights.
We have a serious problem with lack of space to expand the apron area, without serious investment. Any airline looking at expanding would have to get the airport to sort out stands. If Flybe and Baby were to eventually further expand, and the possibility of XL coming back in 2008, parking space will be tight!
The road/rail/bus link is also down to the council/road/rail operators. Hopefully with the recent news regarding St Athan, that may push the road we need forward.
The road from Culverhouse down to Rhoose is constantly chocker. Something needs to be done just to cut the traffic. A road from M4-A48-Rhoose would be ideal, this would not only benifit the airport, but people of rhoose and cut traffic going through the top of Barry and Wenvoe, which in turn would cut traffic on the nightmare Culverhouse cross roundabout which is a constant bottlenexk throughout the day.
Baby...baby have no get up and go at the moment. Its as if they are scared to do anything. They are the main domestic operator at CWL, yet as someone mentioned they are cutting the GLA to x1 daily? Which is no good for business pax surely. If Flybe had any sense and did come into CWL they would only face serious competition on a few routes. E.G BFS/BHD, EDI, GLA. They could open several new french/German routes, NCL, GLA, EDI, INV etc which could mean at least one based A/c.
As for Paris, if TOM continue to mirror their low-cost bases elsewhere, im sure they will possibly go for a paris route. BOH and CVT offer PRG and AMS, but i cant see TOM operating these route as they are already covered by baby.
And to finish my rant. Hopefully the masterplan will come into effecto much before 2015, the plans they have offered for 2015 need to be sorted now, otherwise the airport will go nowhere for years and fall even further behind BRS' shadow.

[cwl747]

Totally agree caaardiff, but the management at cardiff really need to pull there fingures out of there a**e, because at the moment the airport would be better of run by a group of amazonian monkeys!!!!!!!!

[mathers_wales_uk]

here here Caaardiff, I totally agree with you there.

Gate 15 is a waste of time, but apparently it is going to be used as a bussing gate. Maybe if there is a flight boarding from nearly all of the gates at the airport (like in the summer or during rugby flights) then this gate would be justified but other than that i can't see why it would be used, and i haven't yet seen it be used. Looking at the Masterplan it seems that when they extend the walkway out towards BAMC then gate gate 13-14 walkway will dispapear and the road will go in fron ot the stands. This will then make it not possible to put a domestic arrivals in that area unless they remove the security building. Immigration do allow domestic flights to use the new pier, providing there are no international flights using it the same time, but Special Branch will only see flights from gate 1 because of recording equipment.

Also looking at the plans, ICS building will disapear and the Staff car park.

Somone mentioned the multi-storey car park. This is planned but not anytime soon.

Gate 11A - Now this is definetly a waste of time. There is no way to enter this gate other than from the apron. No other doors other than a fire exit. What is the point of this?

Anyone seen the planes of the new extension instead of the tent? I know theres belts being placed at ground level but are they going to extend departures or will it be yet another extension of the exec lounge? I believe once they make the whole of upstairs the departure lounge, then maybe there will be a chance of better facilities.

Is anyone going to the consultative meeting tomorrow? If they are could they post some notes on here please.

:ok:

[Smile!!!]

All this talk about NYC/DXB etc. As stated previously, DXB is well served from BHX, less than 2 hrs up the road. EWR is served from BRS, would another operator succeed?

You get me too Birmingham in 2 hours! LHR is the most conviniant airport by EK for the South of Wales, and yes, you did hear me say LHR most conviniant. Getting to BRS is a joke and again I would still go LHR, the price differance isnt big enough for me to go BRS.

As per the new link, see my post above, where Rhodri Morgan said on Wales Today (BBC) That with StAthans, and all that is happening there, a road link to CWL and StAthans from the M4, aka a new junction was inevitable. Some good news there. If I was very gullible I would think that 08 will be an extreme year, XL, TOM leaving BRS (coming to CWL), BE, WW. Will this all happen? I have my doubts and, can with some certinty say no.

[mathers_wales_uk]

To be honest Smile would there be room for all this to happen? And as the road is concerned, i doubt that would be there by 2008 as well, it would be completed ready for the St Athan project thats if they don't decide to widen the roads instead.

:ok:

[teifiboy]

Latest plans are for a link road between J34 0f the M4 and CWL/St Athan. Unfortunately it is only going to be Single Carriageway.

[mathers_wales_uk]

thats much better than the road there currently, where the road goes through pendoylan and the lanes where it is very damaging to a car if you have to do the journy every day.

We wouldn't see this road build finished till roughly 2010 by the time they plan it, compulsary purchase land and then build it.

I know in the masterplan sumwhere i read there is a possibility of a Miskin Parkway which will be roughly J34, new station which is on the high speed line direct from paddington with a shuttle bus service from there to the airport.

:ok:

[caaardiff]

CWL-ORY offered by Thomson, operated by an ATR4 (assuming this to be Aer Arann) commencing in May!:ok: :D

[mathers_wales_uk]

i know they used the Aer Arann ATR last year for the Jersey Route, which is still operating this year.where did you hear about the ORY route? Nothing is on sale yet.

[caaardiff]

From the ACL slot allocations issued. From this its also showing as a daily route!
The JER route will be operated by TOM's own 733/5 this year

[Wellington Bomber]

Mathers Wales

Are you going to start complaining now that Flybe are not operating to Paris on those Q400's and that the fares are so expensive to Paris using Aer Arann and the smaller aircraft.

I bet you are typing already:ugh:

[bycrewlgw]

News from The Casino Advisory Board.

Cardiff Airport has been named as one of the reasons why the board rejected Cardiff's application for a super-casino. It states that the airport is undeveloped and that together with other factors would not expect the casino to do as well as in other places!

This is a big blow to Wales, ok not sure if the population wanted it, certainly know that the assembly wanted it. Hopefully the Assembly government will have a few little words with the airport as not to lose any future projects! :ok:

[a1234]

Thomsonfly?! Flybe would have been better, frankly most people will think this is charter or something and keep using BRS. CWL could have done better.

[Smile!!!]

Latest plans are for a link road between J34 0f the M4 and CWL/St Athan. Unfortunately it is only going to be Single Carriageway.

No, I do believe that it is planned to be a dual carrigway, to be ready for St Athan in 2013, so yes a long time of J33/ Culverhouse cross/ The CWL tour of roundabouts mysery:suspect:. But I do think it is quite definitavley goning too happen.

a1234, i must agree with you there, people dont think of Thomsonfly as a LoCo, in my experiance. That is why I would except it would be better for WW to operate Paris and Barcelona (or yes, even BE.) Still with aer arann operating. Bring on Tuifly in that perspective.

I am sure that the casino is not a big loss, Cardiff isnt any vegas, so basically, it would just bring more misery to the lives of the areas poor. I dont think we need a casino, whatever Rhodri says.

[teifiboy]

Smile!!! I will refer you to the following link

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/tm_headline=-100m-transport-boost-on-back-of-st-athan%26method=full%26objectid=18548797%26siteid=50082-name_page.html

[mathers_wales_uk]

why do you think that Wellington Bomber? At the moment FlyBe have no further plans to add anymore routes from CWL and the current one will have the A/C based at belfast. (Maybe once the deal is done that could change).

If Thomson are going to use their 737 on the Jersey flight then they will be compeating against Bmi Baby on the route, which is a bad thing for BMI Baby.

If Thomson want to use Aer Arann ATR to operate the Paris flight then thats up to them obviously they be making money on it which would mean the fairs will be higher. (At least a company is making an attempt to operate a paris flight again).

Airbridge 10 is back in a blue colour which sticks out like a sore thumb. Airbridge 7 has now been removed.

Did anyone go to the consultative meeting tonight?

Anyone else got any news?

:ok:

[GBALU53]

mathers wales uk

You said about Thomsonfly being in direct competition with BNI baby on the Cardiff Jersey some of us would not think so when you leek at the schedules.

BMI Baby one flight a week starting on the 31st March saturdays only.

Thonsonfly start the beginning of may and by the end of may there will be five flights a week with them being morning rotations where the Baby flight is late afternoon.

So one could say not in direct competion.

Thomsonfly are only carrying on from last year where the had four return trips mid morning with AER ARRAN operating on there behalf, so they are now doing it themselves with an increase in capicty good for Wales and all those Uni students from the Islands.

[TwinAisle]

You get me too Birmingham in 2 hours!

Umm, not difficult from the centre of Cardiff - do it quite often in less.

LHR is the most conviniant airport by EK for the South of Wales

As a Gold Skywards card holder, I can assure you that LHR is not the most convenient airport. BHX is way easier. Also, the experience is much nicer at BHX (albeit the lounge isn't as good, but hanging around airports waiting for longhaul flights isn't my scene), the parking is a fraction of the cost and getting your luggage back doesn't take days.....

Back on topic -

Orly from Cardiff is great for getting to Paris, not so great for connections.... ah well.

[mathers_wales_uk]

Even though Thomson are not flying at the same time, without a shadow of a doubt the increased capacity of a 737 (149 pax depending on the class of a/c) five times a week will effect BMI Baby.

Giving the consumer a much better option to fly whenever they want rather than on Saturday as S06. Thomson did not pose a threat last year to BMI Baby as all their flights were full with old leasure travellers. But this year i am guessing that there will be empty seats on the WW - Jersey. I maybe wrong but we'll just have to wait and see on this one.

And if you read the thread closely there is no mention of direct or indirect competition. But if there is an opourtunity for WW Passengers to be lost and travel with TOM then maybe the Jersey route will disapear off the WW scheduling for S08 or maybe an icreased frequency by WW. Will there be a price war on this route? this could be interesting and are WW allready regreating not putting in the Fourth A/C at WW?

:ok:

[MonkeyB]

Baby also reducing Faro to 1 weekly from 3x weekly in S06 in response to TOM 5x weekly.

MB

[TwinAisle]

We wouldn't see this road build finished till roughly 2010 by the time they plan it, compulsary purchase land and then build it.

Most likely true, M_W_UK, but you forgot to add on the inevitable planning enquiry that will precede the planning stage.... and since anything to do with improving airports these days is about as popular as Mother Theresa in a whorehouse, then I'd add a few more years to your estimate, unfortunately.

I've said this before tho - the road is an excuse. The lack of growth at Cardiff is always held up to be due to the road, but being honest, there are many airports in the UK with sharply WORSE access, and they do better than CWL. I'd point the finger somewhere else... have a reread of Caaaardiff's postings, I won't repeat their thoughts!

BTW - people who suggest that baby could/should do Paris with a 737 need a lesson in airline economics, I am afraid... ditto BRU.

TA

[sweet home ncl]

BTW - people who suggest that baby could/should do Paris with a 737 need a lesson in airline economics, I am afraid... ditto BRU.


I'm sure if we can have 5 daily flights to paris up here (3 AF F100's and 2 EZY 737's) you could manage a daily baby737, have some faith!

[TwinAisle]

But "A" daily 737 just doesn't work. The Paris route from Cardiff has traditionally been a business route, with the route paid for by the boys and girls in Club, or paying Y class tickets. So it has to be double daily. So that is 600 seats per day with a 737. Baby would want to fill at least 500 of those, and at a sensible yield that covers the nasty costs of CDG. That just won't happen any time soon from this part of the world, I am afraid.

What it needs is someone with a smaller aircraft that can offer a BA type service. Baby wisely aren't touching it with a mucky stick.

TA

[pipertommy]

So really Paris would be a good opening for Flybe`s expansion?

[caaardiff]

How successful were Air Wales with the CDG, considering it was on behalf of baby?
Obviously baby felt then that it wasnt worth a 737, so why would it change now.
On the other hand. It must have been alot of leisure pax, if i remember rightly the ATR's were often overloaded with luggage....this wouldnt have happened if some/most pax were business pax.
How did Air Wales operate it...timings, frequency etc?
people dont think of Thomsonfly as a LoCo, in my experiance. That is why I would except it would be better for WW to operate Paris and Barcelona (or yes, even BE.)
Thomson have the marketing power to overcome it. TOM operate AMS, PRG, BCN, VLC etc from CVT/DSA/BOH, not your average bucket and spade charter they are best known for, and also high freq.
Thomson will be able to market ORY as a leisure route. Pax do see Thomson as a Leisure operator. But if word spreads and its the only option, then maybe some business pax may catch on.
Could FlyBe - CDG on a DH8, and TOM - ORY on ATR4 work along side each other?
CDG being for business pax, ORY for Leisure pax. Correct me if im wrong, but isnt ORY the airport that serves Disney? and CDG not only provides links to Paris itself, but also Transit pax connecting to elsewhere from CDG?

[TwinAisle]

but isnt ORY the airport that serves Disney?

Well you can get there from any Paris airport, but CDG is way better - the park is at Marne La Vallée, east Paris.

6G did fine operationally with CDG, but financially baby couldn't drive the yields high enough to make it worthwhile. Expensive place, CDG!!

TA

[nospeedrestriction9]

From what I remember Air Wales did very well on CDG in terms of pax loads often achieving averages of around 85% however the yield that was needed to operate into such a highly expensive airport just wasn't there.

I think an ATR72 will do well into CDG but I don't think ORY will capture the type of passenger that will pay the high yield, there's not enough leisure passenger to fill the aircraft alone, not when there's an EZY and BA service just down the road.

Cheers

[TwinAisle]

So really Paris would be a good opening for Flybe`s expansion?

I would say so, yes - but since they don't seem to be wanting to base aircraft at their Cardiff "base" (wonder what dictionary they use down in EXT?), I can't see it happening with them.
Air France are out, because of KLM.
Aer Arann don't seem keen.
I wish ThomsonFly all the luck in the world with the ORY (if indeed it is confirmed, no sign of it on the websites yet) but have to say I would be VERY surprised if they make a go of it. Unless the RDF is chipping in shedloads....
I think an ATR72 will do well into CDG but I don't think ORY will capture the type of passenger that will pay the high yield, there's not enough leisure passenger to fill the aircraft alone, not when there's an EZY and BA service just down the road.

Yep, that's my take as well.
TA

[cwl4eva]

If CWL is struggling to secure ORY then it is doomed. I used to use CWL quite a bit but now BRS is miles ahead. Frankly the management and JH are pathetic they keep going on about securing routes and talking to a number of airlines but nothing ever happens. CWL is not going anywhere and its a real shame.

[TwinAisle]

Forgive me, but that wasn't a very helpful post....

If CWL is struggling to secure ORY then it is doomed

Why? ORY and Paris in general is a tough market to get into, and an even tougher one to make any money on. The fact that Cardiff isn't yet playing in this pond doesn't mean it is "doomed".

CWL is not going anywhere

Pax numbers up and loads of rebuilding. Potential of a new road to the motorway. And who knows what else this year... :ok:

No, going no-where fast...:ugh:

[cwl747]

Sorry to be blunt, but has this ORY route been confirmed yet?

[Smile!!!]

No, well its not on sale yet anyway. Theres also been no press realeses on the subject. Anyone have any ideas when its going up for sale?

[cwl747]

oh i dont know if this has already been mentioned but heres some news on airport developement

Air passengers in Wales can look forward to getting their luggage faster after flying into Cardiff International Airport thanks to a new baggage carousel.
The £2m scheme will create a new baggage collection hall - complete with an international-standard conveyor belt - to ensure the two million passengers who use the expanding airport will not be left frustrated, waiting for their suitcase to reach them on the carousel.

heres the link

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/tm_method=full%26objectid=18556317%26siteid=50082-name_page.html

[MonkeyB]

Anybody else noticed the TOM adverts in the Western Mail / Echo over the last couple of weeks? Some days it's 29 destinations from CWL, others it's 30! What's all that about?

If I could be bothered I'd have a count up.

MB

[Smile!!!]

I am sure that it is 30, or is that 31?

BTW, does anyone know when the Orly flight is planned to go up fopr sale?

But "A" daily 737 just doesn't work. The Paris route from Cardiff has traditionally been a business route, with the route paid for by the boys and girls in Club, or paying Y class tickets. So it has to be double daily. So that is 600 seats per day with a 737. Baby would want to fill at least 500 of those, and at a sensible yield that covers the nasty costs of CDG. That just won't happen any time soon from this part of the world, I am afraid.

Totally agree CWL doesnt support that sort/ and that large a market of Biz types to Paris, when BRS is a 'mere':hmm: 2 and more hours away, or there is ofcourse via AMS with KLM/AF, after all all the KLM CWL flights have a AF flight number.

[mathers_wales_uk]

Any KLM Business passenger would stick to using the current CWL - AMS - CDG route just because of the frequent flyer cards that it offers and the benafits.

And as the report suggests a 2m investment which will cut down on the wait of passengers collecting their luggage. That is a laugh, especially it's the amount of staff offloading the planes not how many belts they got. They don't care putting 3 flights on one belt if theres enough boys to offload them the same time.

All this rumours about a paris route, i just been given another one of the senior staff at work. It has been accepted now that the 4th WW a/c will not be coming to cardiff this year. But one of the captains asked the dispatcher if they were aware of loosing one of the baby's, which would explain the loss of the daily glasgow. After discussions with that senior membor of staff they then told me that it is not true as the scheduling has gone out but a paris flight may be one of them but it is a possibility, but they did mention the high price of landing fees at paris.

Did anyone go to the consultative meeting?

:ok:

[TwinAisle]

Any KLM Business passenger would stick to using the current CWL - AMS - CDG route just because of the frequent flyer cards that it offers and the benafits

Exactly right. The problem with Paris is that the BA regulars who, to a large part made this service work from Cardiff, doing the trip a lot and paying the big fares, did it with BA for the Executive Club benefits.... when BA pulled out, a lot of them will have decamped to BRS to carry on flying BA. Will they come back to Cardiff? I doubt it in many cases - they have got used to what they are doing, and most peope who travel like this (myself included) are creatures of habit.

I can't see baby going back to CDG. Why would they, when they tried it and it was nasty for them (hence the 6G operation of it at the end) and where are they going to get CDG slots from??

TA

[flower]

But aren't BA CON pulling out of BRS so the service to Paris with BA will cease so no executive club points?

I'm too out of touch with what is going on to really comment, I do hope that the Airport though and the WAG will have taken account of the comments made in the Report regarding the Super Casino.

[TwinAisle]

A good point, and one this red wine had made me forget ;)

I do hope that the Airport though and the WAG will have taken account of the comments made in the Report regarding the Super Casino

Amen to that....

TA

[TwinAisle]

but could it get the slots

Indeed. Could baby get them back off mainline either?

TA

[teifiboy]

A question for those with a close interest in CWL:-

How many airlines have served Paris from CWL in the last 10-15 years and how long on average have these lasted before being pulled?

[xtypeman]

6G did the route for baby so that mainline could keep the slots. You will have noted that this was the only baby flight that 6G operated under a WW flight number. The cost where astronomical for an ATR. 6G lost a lot of money on that route and yes it is down to yield looking at BRS BA will keep the slots they are too valuable. FlyBe is changing from a true Loco cost will rise and fares will too hence yield goes up. This will then attract the business flyer. On the subject of the slots 6G did apply for slots at CDG but did not even get a reply from the slot co-ordinator hence the use of WW numbers. Lets get real if you want a Paris ex CWL you need to define your market and then use the airport thats best for your situation for Loco with pax for EuroDisney you need to look to Beauvais if your market is Paris for leisure then look at Pontoise as Debonair did. Twinaisle is right the business pax has left CWL and is now a creature of habit also business travel is declining as we use internet video confrencing e-mails etc etc......

Any one heard anything on OneWales who have put in interest for the PSO route?

[pipertommy]

Who`s "ONEWALES" is this the north south link???Tell us more :E

[Stall-Warner]

Mathers

For someone with as little inside knowledge on the management and running of CWL, you sure do have a lot to say for yourself.

I suggest you keep doing that pathetic job of yours, and never consider a career in journalism, professional commentating or for that matter, managing an international business.

Good luck with your homework...

SW

[xtypeman]

pipertommy i have it on good authority that a company called OneWales have shown an interest in the CWL to Valley link using a Metroliner. Does any one have any idea who they are?

[pipertommy]

Never heard of them before:confused: Would be good to see a new Welsh airline in Cwl:ok:

[TwinAisle]

Means nothing to me, or indeed to Companies House...

There is a OneWay Airlines though... a mishearing? And they are looking likely to be struck off the register. Daft name for an airline anyway!!

TA

[cwl4eva]

Doesn't CWL look like it is putting all its eggs in one basket if it confirms the ORY route? If baby aren't keen on expansion soon we could see TOM become the dominant low fares airline at CWL much like CVT and DSA. Jersey, Faro are two mentioned where TOM has taken on these routes and have seen baby cut back as a result. Now that TOM is also providing BCN and possibly ORY what will this mean for baby and for any BE expansion? Mind you both BCN and ORY seem to be much cheaper than EZY's alternatives at BRS. Just tested the prices and on the same day its 44.50 return from CVT (ORY) and around 60.00 from BRS with EZY.

[Cymru in Paris]

Evening all.

It would be great if there was a link to Cardiff again saves driving from Bristol down to West Wales.

As for BMIbaby, if you look at the flights for Summer 07, it looks as though there will be only two a/c based there.

Take the Monday 4th of June - there is a 6:50am departure to Edi and a 6:00am depature to AGP. No other depature until after 10am.

The only possible explanation could be new routes which could be announced prior to the summer schedules.

Any thoughts?

[cwl747]

We can all but hope, i think WW is pritty keen on expanding at BHX at the mo and they have been stepping down 1 or 2 services from cardiff, if they were to launch a new route i couldnt possibly see any where on their current route map that would be an immediate hit in-time for the summer. best of luck to them at CWL i hope that TOM make a go of it CWL and really expand there:ok:

[bmibaby.com]

bmibaby will not base additional aircraft at Cardiff if the airline can make more money, or seize more opportunities from another base. At the moment, BHX is the focal point for bmibaby, as the airline has a lot of potential market to gain from the flybe-BA Connect merger, and sadly this means that other bases are having the brakes put on them. We can all see the reasons why WW ought to expand from Cardiff, there is very little direct competition on some core routes, serving one of the UK's most exciting cities. The sad thing is, under bmi management we are heavily under-resourced and under-funded, we don't have the same mass expansion power that bigger carriers like EZY or RYR have, thus if they can afford to keep CWL at it's present size they will.

I wouldn't be surprised to see flybe or Thomsonfly take advantage of this situation over the next year, as they serve very different markets that encompass the bmibaby route network. Flybe do well on point-to-point business routes (Scotland, Northern Ireland and France) whilst Thomsonfly's market are holiday spots (like the Costas, Portugal, Italy, Canaries) increasingly being flown at scheduled like frequencies. Combined, they could easily push bmibaby out of the market.

Whilst it's been about two years since I was last down at CWL, the base always had fantastic local crews, and the aviance staff were excellent as well. How is handling at CWL these days?

[OltonPete]

Surely something is going to happen at Cardiff, as it was pointed out
a few posts earlier that the summer 2007 schedule just has too many holes?

There is a morning and evening slot available and these are unusual
periods to have aircraft down time. Is a new route (or two) to be
announced or reduce the base to two units by chopping a couple
of flights?

I know BHX has had down time in the past (usually midday) and it is
happening again this summer 2007 - there is a gap from 10.30-14.30
Monday Friday and another the days the Marseille does not operate.

Is there going to be another summer 2007 announcement of routes
for Cardiff & BHX?

OP

[cwl747]

Off the point, ive noticed that BRS first Longhaul flight starts tomorrow to Sanford, with 222 pax booked up, via MAN. Im slightly mythed at why cardiff longhaul schedual doesnt start until May, after all CWl has always been where long haul flights have gone from over BRS, so if BRS can get pax now why shouldn have Cardiff been able too? Its absolutely ludacrus that an airport with a history of no or very little long haul schedueld services, gets to start there season this early, if TOM had done the same as FC or did it last year cardiff surely would have been able to fill up the plane wth loads similar to this. oh neh:*

[caaardiff]

MyTravel usually start off the season. This year they are using their own a/c longer than they did last yr (about 2 months this yr i think) Starts end of March i believe. Even though the flight is a split with either BHX or MAN.
As far as Tom is concerned, i agree with you. However this yr it may be down to a/c charters or availability as some of the fleet is still in refurb till may.

[T_Walker]

I've been reading this forum for some time and after seeing mentions of route losses and struggles to get a Paris route, it made me wonder how far the airport can actually go to make sure that the south wales region actually has a proper 'international' airport. Although i'm not an aviation expert i know there are a variety of factors that determine whether an airport gets new routes or not and it would be interesting to hear views from you guys on what routes could be supported here if airlines were to give our airport a chance.

[TwinAisle]

I've been bored today for once, and so spent a few minutes looking at the baby S07 CWL schedule. Well, first the good news, it definately needs three aircraft (eg, at 1115, one aircraft is en route BFS, one en route PRG, one returning from AGP) - I used a Monday for my thinkings...

BUT:

This is NOT a good low cost schedule. It has holes everywhere, which is precisely not what the low cost airline needs, and usually does all it can to avoid.

My guess is:
Aircraft 1 does AGP-ALC-BFS (out at 0600, home at 2145)
Aircraft 2 does EDI-PRG-EDI (home at a VERY early 1910!)
Aircraft 3 does BFS-GLA-AMS (out at 1020 - late - and back at 2205, with some looooong turns in there at CWL)

Either
1. baby have some planned maintenance - odd for the summer season; or
2. they have some ideas coming up to fill the gaps and make better use of the aircraft; or
3. they are going to be using an aircraft as a hot standby for, say, BHX; or
4. their scheduling team have had a brain fart; or
5. based on OltonPete's BHX study, they can't schedule anyway; or
5. they have lost the plot!

what routes could be supported here if airlines were to give our airport a chance

It doesn't really work that way. The airport is not a charity case, but a supplier to the airline industry, in the same way that a fuel company is. It is up to the airlines to find routes. Being honest, almost any route can be filled by any airline, if the fare is right - the trick is, can the revenue be lifted high enough to make it worthwhile. I call this the "Field of Dreams" school of airline management, Xtypeman will understand that!!

TA

[mathers_wales_uk]

At the moment, handling at CWL for WW is very good and i think they are the best airline to work with as the crews are so friendly.

But time will tell as dispatchers will soon be based outside and there is to be a restructured aviance. All staff to turnaround a/c (meeting/boarding) will be organised front of house, and therefore the dispatchers have no control on staff that will turnaround their a/c and a lot of trust will be needed. This will either be an excellent choice and more professional or it will be a disaster with a lot of passenger service delays. We will just have to wait and see.

Apparently if WW will have only 2 a/c based at Cardiff then there will not be a need for a Baby representative to be based at CWL. The representative has not been informed of one aircraft being removed at CWL or him being based at another airport.

As somone sugested that the downtime maybe used as a standby for BHX. This could be possible as there were times last summer where CWL a/c went tech and they then sent a/c down from other stations within 3 hours. Is this because those stations had downtime or is it because they cancelled flights from those other stations?

:ok:

[xtypeman]

Twinaisle has shown that the schedule bears no sense. The Loco policy is maximum aircraft utilisation and for Loco this is between 0700 and 2300. Most Loco do not operate night flights beacuse it burns crew avaliability. Do we see a crew numbers issue at CWL. Also if you look at some of the times are baby on self destruct BFS could be a buisness day GLA once a day when 6G where doing it twice a day loads where very high. There is something going on with baby we will all have to wait and see.

As to routes out of CWL you either use the scientific approach CAA origin and dest data or you use the Ryanair version if you have two lots of population with either water or grater than 500 miles apart and you sell at the best price you will get passengers to travel. This does open up all kinds of potential route oportunitys. Put all the routes now operated out of cwl on a map and see where the holes are thats where routes can do best. The first that come to mind are Germany and Scandinavia home to Lufthansa and SAS both major owners of Bmi!!!!! Eastern Europe, North Africa. However the sunspots already served are according to info i have seen at maximum and need more services to supply the demand. Do not build your hopes up that Flybe will come in as the night in shinning arm. All cwl is getting is a dash 8 400 best you can hope is Uk domestic and Northen France you wont see a Flybe jet for a long long time.

[mathers_wales_uk]

At the moment CWL is not having any type of a/c from Flybe. The A/C is operating from BFS this has come from Flybe itself. This may change if the deal between BaCon and Flybe. With competition from EasyJet they may shift their BRS operation to CWL instead. Or they may not at all, we'll just have to wait and see.

[cwl747]

At the moment CWL is not having any type of a/c from Flybe


Indeed flybe's description of a base is some what shallow, more like an airport to fill a gap or show BRS that they mean business, i hope in the long turn they make a success of cardiff, but its not going to happen soon, but i would like to see some of the embrear scooting about the apron lol

[a1234]

In regards to TOM, are the lowcost wing changing their name to TUIfly.com as it is in Europe or are they retaining Thomsonfly? Wouldn't this help to distinguish between the low-cost and the charter operations of the airline?

[airhumberside]

TOM will become TUIFly in a couple of years. The TUIFly brand wll become Europe wide

Keeping TOM wouldn't distingush between LoCo and Charter as that is already TOM. Bringing BY for charter would do that (well, I can dream ;) )

[MonkeyB]

Taken from todays Echo. Anybody know what the implications of not trunking sections of the A48 etc will have on this scheme?


AMs pledge to build M4 airport link

Feb 7 2007


Phillip Nifield, South Wales Echo


The Welsh Assembly Government today announced plans to press ahead with plans to improve road links from the M4 to Cardiff International Airport.
Their announcement comes in the wake of the decision to site the £14bn defence training complex at nearby St Athan.
The scheme would improve Five Mile Lane - the A4426 - to cater for the projected growth at the airport, improve road safety along the link and support development in the south of the Vale of Glamorgan.
There were proposals to trunk the A48 from Culverhouse Cross to Sycamore Cross, and parts of three roads leading to the airport.
But following public pressure from villagers a public inquiry ruled that the roads should not be trunked and that has been accepted by the WAG.


Transport Minister Andrew Davies said: 'Following the announcement that St Athan is the preferred location for the £14bn Defence Training Academy, I am delighted to bring forward a scheme to improve road access from the M4 to Cardiff International Airport.

'We are aiming to start this work at the earliest possible opportunity, subject to completion of the planning process.'

The costs of the work has not be finalised.

Nothing on the WAG website yet, although that's never all that quick of the mark.

MB

[pipertommy]

Run it in from M4 jun 34!Make the five mile a dual carriageway do it properly for once:ugh:

[taffman]

Why do it properly, nothing at the airport has!

[mathers_wales_uk]

They are going to run it from J34 but the problem is that they have mentioned the railway bridge there leading towards hensol, which suggests that it will be a single carriage way. Even so, if it is a decent road with a national speed limit direct to the airport then it will cut the journey probably by 10 minutes.

The main problem is how will they overcome the A48 crossing to the 5 Mile lane. The only thing i can suggest is that there will be a roundabout there.

*********************************************************

I can see that they are moving along nicely with the new £2M baggage reclaime extension. They have put the first floor slabs in now, i'll try and get some pics of the development. Anyone spotted airbridge 10, half is blue and other half is white.

*********************************************************

Scottish rugby airlifts start tomorrow with Globespan making a visit to fly the Welsh rugby team up to EDI (Weather Permitting) Hearing the rumours thats floating about they maybe here next year. KLM Cancelled flights for tomorrow. 8th Feb KL1058 KL1059/KL1060 KL1065/KL1066 Due to bad weather. Could see more cancellations to come with this snow.

Fly Safe

:ok:

[Smile!!!]

On the junction from J34, I am sure that I heard RM say a new Dual Carrigway from J34, in the BBc news (Wales) when St Athans news was announce to be open by the time St Athans is partially open 2009. I have however seen the earlier post that says its too be single lane carrigeway. With the link too IC Wales. I think this is everything that CWL needs, finally a direct link too CWL from the motorway, another one up on BRS. I am sure they could build a new railway bridge to span a dual carrigeway, and good old Network Rail will probably close the tracks for a while, if it is single or dual carrigeway.

Smile!!!

[Stall-Warner]

I see you are another CWL management basher...seems to be a sad Welsh trait you fellas have!

[CheekyVisual]

When have the WAG or before that the councils ever done anything properly. If a link from the M4 to the airport is every built I will eat (my soon to be redundant) BA hat.

The plan for a link and a park and ride is a very good one. But it just won't happen. It never does. The St Athan development will be forgotten by next month and the locals will block everything and anything. There is not the will for the fight. The environmental folk will descend on Cardiff Bay and no one will want their "green credentials" tested.

They will do a little bit of cosmetic surgery on 5 mile lane. They will spruce up the A48 (not enough to anoy the good folk of St Nicholas) and not do anything about Culverhouse Cross. But the whole thing will be trumpeted as the greatest development South Wales has ever seen and the problems will remain the same.

If it doesn't happen this time (and it won't) it never will and CWL will slip further behind the rest. Sorry to be so negative. I just have no faith in Rhodri and his chums doing the right thing.

[MonkeyB]

The development of the MOD academy in St Athan is an investment of somwhere near £16 billion. Remeber Metrix / St Athan are preferred bidder, nothing set in stone yet.

If surface transport improvements of £100 plus million are a deal maker / breaker then I'm sure that even WAG aren't thick enough to let that slip by, especially with Assembly elections around the corner - I'd bet my banannas that all the main parties will be making manifesto pledges on this.

MB

[taffman]

Some of us have the ability to face reality and not live in a dream world. Having lived and worked at Rhoose as well as longed for route improvements and the upgrades to the terminal building for years, I know little will happen to this sad place.

I have said this before in previous posts about CWL as you like to call it now, any place that has a car park in a hole in the ground with out any proper access to it for the users on foot with baggage for years and years must be a good indication of the pace of change at the place.

The spending of the now cancelled project to make St.Athan a centre of excellence for military aircraft maintenance must give even the simplest of people clues as to the commitment the government or the WAG has to the area. Spend money on buildings as these can be pulled down afterwards but roads and railways, a different kettle of fish.

[caaardiff]

Flights from 0730 still not departed. Obviously down to the snow, how come its taking so long to clear?

[Smile!!!]

Well firstly no snow was forcast for today, and on the weather this morning, it says we were suprised there was snow today so there was no warning.
Secondaly in the south and west of the UK (The area of the country that has the least snow) what is the point spending millions on equipment that is only used a few times a year? There isnt much need, and it this tight cost industry, you cant just spend millions on equipment, when there is so little return. Hopefully the snow will quickly clear and things will get back too normal.

[mathers_wales_uk]

the reason it's taking so long to clear is that they only have one plough and it is done by fire setction. They then have to plough all the runways and taxyways. The runway was closed yesterday morning up untill 11:30am.

Since it's the scottish rugby airlifts this weekend, extra flights are handled and the departure lounge is full. Causing BMI Baby to cancel all flights out of CWL except for the 10am flights which are only now boarding and the EDI tonight which will be extremely delayed.

I think they don't start clearing the runway and taxyways until the snow stops.

[pipertommy]

Hi,We start clearing the snow straight away even if it is snowing,yes we do the snow clearing along with other departments.Towards the end of yesterday one of the ploughs packed in(ex-belfast airport:rolleyes: )
We try our best to get the runway open asap,but you have to remember its not like clearing a main road!It has to be 100% ok for braking action ect so it needs to be completely clear of snow and slush.
It is a slow process as Cwl has limited but good equipment,does`nt snow that much so why spend all that money as stated before.

[mathers_wales_uk]

I can tell it's a slow process as it stopped snowing at 8:30am yesterday but the first plane didn't push back until at least 11:30. Where are the ploughs kept? The only one i've seen is the one thats been by MT i think or the graveyard.

It's like everything else at CWL, you got to do the best with what you've got. Captains been keeping passengers on the planes instead of the terminal while the clear up has been going on because they don't want the passengers getting drunk in the terminal.

There's been reports of a deutch pilot refusing to go because of the snow does anyone know if it was KLM or one of the Rugby Charter Flts?

:ok:

[pipertommy]

Kept in the groundsman building southside basically behind the light a/c maintenance hangar!I know what you mean,make do!

[a1234]

The airport have announced (see SW Echo or Icwales.co.uk) that they will be seeking to open routes to Rome, Katowice, Paris and a German city within the next two years. The failure of establishing a Paris route so far is blamed on high airport charges in Paris.

However isn't this what they said two years ago but made progress on not a single one of the routes on their wishlist? Also same old nonsense about starting services to the Far/Middle East.

[pipertommy]

Yip groundhog day:rolleyes:

[cwl747]

As usaul JH bull:mad: , and where's this orly route that was going to be happening in the not to distant future?

[mathers_wales_uk]

This is the article from ICWales as mentioned above.

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/tm_headline=airport-hopes-for-polish-connection%26method=full%26objectid=18604125%26siteid=50082-name_page.html#story_continue

I think a reaction from most people that work around the airport would be that we'll believe it when we see it. Mind how long has this person been in post that's supposed to bring in all these new routes? And the Nantes route is last years Larient operated by RE so we lost a route to gain a route.

:ok:

[mathers_wales_uk]

I have also just realised that they expect another record year for passengers in 2007 but where are they expecting this to come from? Especially with Excel pulling out, theres a little extra routes/flights to take their place and increase the numbers.

[cwl747]

Well you know this is cardiff airport, However as much as i want it to succed it doesnt have the right people at the helm to do it, Orly has come and gone theres no news on it and was discussed here about 2 weeks ago and nothnig about it since, and excel now have only two routes on sale, Thomsonfly, is about there biggest chance for europe at the moment as for Poland Maybe Wizz, But fingures crossed :ok:

[mathers_wales_uk]

Yeah thats totally true. BmiBaby are hiding something though as theres gaps in their schedule. Orly route has gone quiet. One of the Excel routes (ACE) are operated by Air Malta KM6408V.

I can't see where these record figures are going to come from unless there will be suprise route anouncments very soon. And the Bristol closure helped towards reaching the 2M passenger mark.

[cwl747]

Cheers for the inf, and i doubt very much not updating there website will atract custom either, if i werent into the avistion industry i would have never known you could fly to Kos and Barcelona, tried to book a Lorient flight with fail, and also woulndt know that Flybe is a schedualed operator, i did actually e-mail CWl and got no response back:rolleyes: , um i wonder what else they could have been doing certainly not securing the airports future:*

[mathers_wales_uk]

well the RE lorient service of S06 will now be the Nantes service in S07 even though they advertising an extra route from Cardiff without no mention of them removing the Lorient service.

Eastern Airways are only operating twice daily Newcastle on weekdays with the weekends flight being removed.

Excel pulling out except for two flights, one being operated by Air Malta and the other by their own a/c.

Bmi Baby only doing a once daily to glasgow and at the moment gaps in their schedules.

Onur Air will be adding an extra weekly flight to Turkey

Flybe twice daily to Belfast City

Thomsonfly Adding Barcelona and operating Jersey on their 737 instead of Aer Arann's ATR.

First Choice adding more destinations but i think some will be operated by Thomson's.

Not sure on ZOOM's flights or My Travel.

Monarch not operating this year.

******************************************************

By looking at the above especially with excel going, there is a lot of downsides compared to the upsides for them to reach their target again this year. If anyone knows more plz feel free to add.

[travelbuddy]

I understand fully what you are saying about cardiff and its route i was approached bythe Airport about two years ago to take onthe route development position but onlyhad experiemce in retail - the job was ghiven to someone else which is frustrating as i know i could have done better.!!

[bamcb38c]

my travel will be subcontracting out some of thier flights, ie tunisia will be a kathargo 737 and air malta will be taking the malta flights.

[mathers_wales_uk]

It's all very well that they got a Head of Aviation Relationships (Route appointer). But at the end of the day if new airlines don't want to come into Cardiff and theres no incentive for them to come into Cardiff except from the WAG then whats the point of the post?

Him entering the post was announced on 25 august 2006, is he really doing enough to earn his salary?

According to ICWales for the Cardiff - Valley

Welsh Assembly Government-supported Cardiff to Valley in Anglesey service. Three airlines are competing for the heavily subsidised three-year contract, which is expected to be announced next month.

I thought that originally they were only going to use a small a/c to operate this service and now they mention airlines. But if as they say it will be announced next month, then when will the flights start operating? I'm sure there will have to be facilities built in RAF Valley.

[a1234]

So now the NCL route has been downgraded? What is going on with CWL, first GLA now this what next? Frankly the management are a disgrace they will keep issuing rosy press releases but make progress on absolutely nothing. I think many people are becoming increasingly angry (especially people from S Wales who wanted to give CWL a try) and turned off by the joke that is CWL's management.

[cwl747]

It is a joke i sometimes wonder if they are even there, I visited the airport countless times last year either to fly myself or to pick up/drop off someone. Not once did i see anyone in a suite on the airport floor, no customer relations at all, absolutely disgracefull it puts the mokers on welsh friendlyness.

[tightturnaround]

Just to be cler re: T3 NCL. The route isn't/hasn't been downgraded - it has never operated at weekends. Initially showing as remaining 2x daily M-F for this Summer (no change) but with the high passenger numbers a frequency increase at some point would seem likely and seem to fit better with T3's business model.

[nospeedrestriction9]

It's hardly surprising the route will increase capacity at some point, the route was handed to them on a plate 6 months ago by Air Wales, which was a 3x daily ATR operation.

[mathers_wales_uk]

it's a different type of pasenger though e.g (Business only). T3 operates a 1st class service including access to the executive lounge at CWL. It would be good to have an increased frequency of T3 especially since they only operated the BRU route for couple of Months. What happened to the Aberdeen route that they originally were planning to operate. Could T3 be one of the airlines looking at the Valley - Cardiff?

The airports DM's are usually behind check-in desk 16 and 17 and as for JH he's usually up in his office by the tower. There was a meeting every morning for issues to be risen by handling agents, retail, security etc. All matters that were risen in the meetings especially by handling agents were something simple like hooks on doors (leading out onto the apron)to keep them open because they were slamming shut and hitting staff. Took about 2 months to get that sorted.

It is a joke at the moment and talking of these new routes to Germany, Poland and longhaul to New Zealand, Australia and the Far East is just laughable.

[cwl4eva]

The management seem to be extremely incompetent and have achieved very little in the last few years. Was looking through the airport news archive and a piece two years ago mentioned establishing routes to Germany, Italy and Scandinavia with key aspirations for DXB. Well the latest press release seems to have dropped Scandinavia now that BRS have Stockholm and its likely that this is all just a smokescreen to distract increasing criticism from all quarters. I agree that people's patience has been tested and they have waited long for something to come out of CWL but seems like none of the management give two hoots about establishing anything more than an intra-Wales service what a pathetic bunch I will not use CWL in protest at this sorry lot, which is a shame.

[xtypeman]

Sorry you can not lay the blame soley at CWL management. Lets get it right. The Airport has a wish list of routes it would like to see operated. Eu rules will only allow an airport limited means of supporting new routes(RDF)(Ryanair Brussels south!!!). It is the airlines that have to look at the commercial case for any particular route. CWL needs a new operator to come in to operate new routes. Baby have space XL are pulling out Flybe are starting one service. These are established operators now that have to plan months and months ahead(Slots etc.) before commiting on any new route. You think CWL are bad before Mr Burns arrived at MAN they opened a second runway and the only new service they got was the Do228 Air Wales service from CWL.

[Stall-Warner]

At last - someone who clearly understands the markets and the forces therein!

This thread appears to have become a thread for bashing JH and anyone associated with business development at the airport.

The truth is that CWL will always lag behind BRS, for one predominant reason only - the size of the catchment area. BRS has a potential catchment area of circa 5m persons within a one hour drive time. CWL has a population of 2m in the same drive time.

Not rocket science then that BRS has over 2.5 times the number of pax!!!

I would suggest that JH and the CWL management are developing the business really rather nicely - the last numbers I saw which were over two years ago before I left, indicated that EBITDA was well in excess of £12m for one year - not bad for a 2m pax airport.

Now try to convince me CWL management are ineffective...

[cwl747]

Well lets face the truth, although i myself may seem to be blaming the whole CWL situation on JH, its obvious it isnt entirely his fault after all im studying economics and were currently doing the aviation market, but you have to agree yourself that all these European city routes that by now should be well established at CWl according the article nearly two years ago have just not come, as for the website its good fair play but please update the ruddy thing.

The truth is that CWL will always lag behind BRS, for one predominant reason only - the size of the catchment area. (All depends how you look at it after all it is one of the fastest growing european cities with probably the slowest to react airport.

[TwinAisle]

As someone who is currently studying economics, I am sure, cwl747, that you will see the innate common sense in the writings of xtypeman and Stall-Warner. The airport is there to make money. That is what it does, based on S-W's figures, it does it well. Get off JH's case!!

The catchment area argument is a bit of a red herring as well, however. It all depends on the route offered. If you consider, say, Edinburgh, then the catchment area is relatively small, since you can get there from BHX, BRS etc etc. But for a route that ISN'T available elsewhere (eg YYZ, YVR), the catchment area expands outwards rapidly.

Does the airport have a wishlist complex? Yes, like all airports I have ever come across!!!

TA

[cwl747]

Well lets face the truth, although i myself may seem to be blaming the whole CWL situation on JH, its obvious it isnt entirely his fault


TA im not on JH's back, hes isnt the only one incharge of that airport, i myself am using his name purely because i dont know the names of the other management there.


innate common sense in the writings of xtypeman and Stall-Warner

I certainly respect there opinion and no doubt they know much more on the aviation than me, regardless of that fact we in this forum are free to voice our opinion and reason it within one another to a certain degree.


Does the airport have a wishlist complex? Yes, like all airports I have ever come across!!!

Yes but arent many of them making theres come true eh? :)

[caaardiff]

Route developments is mainly down the Airlines.
Transport access is down to Government and Transport companies
Terminal expansion is down to Abertis.
Selling the advantages of improving all of the above is down to the management 'team'.
Unfortunately, very few of us actually knows what goes on behind the scenes.
What i do know is that employees, locals and pprune'ers as well may talk some pretty good sense, and its as if the management dont want to know and thunder on with ridiculous ideas pretending that they think everyone will love what their doing.
Also I think the whole catchment area thing is not the 'major' factor some people perceive it as. As Twinaisle says, the further away the route, the further people will travel to the airport to fly the route. If people are willing to travel from South Wales and the South West to LHR,LGW,BHX for long haul routes... (a drive of between 1 1/2 - 4 hrs, why wouldnt they drive to CWL if the route was there.
There are also alot of Welsh accents you can hear when a BRS flight diverts in.
I think, (and this is my personal opinion) BRS got lucky because
A) Go were there, and thats where easyjet stayed.
and B) CO has improved BRS profile.
If CWL had a sparkly new terminal the same time as BRS and a good team to profile CWL to the world, i wonder how it would have turned out.

[TwinAisle]

hes isnt the only one incharge of that airport

Yes he is. He is Managing Director.

i myself am using his name purely because i dont know the names of the other management there

Ouch....

Yes but arent many of them making theres come true eh?

Most have bits that come true, and bits that are wishlists. BRS declared years ago that it wanted a New York, a Chicago and a Dubai. Well, one out of three isn't bad I guess. CWL has delivered some as well, but like all airports, it is up to the airlines to fly from there, not the airports.

[cwl747]

TA you seem to be slightly arrogent and a bit of a know it all, you have so many ideas that roll of your tongue so easily, a bit like JH in a way!!!!!

Oh and if you think im the only one ripping the guts out of cardiff just read this http://www.airlinequality.com/Airports/Airport_forum/cwl.htm


Yes he is. He is Managing Director.
Oh do grow up

[Cymru in Paris]

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/tm_headline=could-we-soon-fly-from-wales-to-the-world-%26method=full%26objectid=18618307%26siteid=50082-name_page.html

[TwinAisle]

What FACTUAL part of what I wrote do you disagree with?

He is MD, therefore he is in charge.

Taking the fight to JH simply because you know of no-one else to criticise is frankly puerile.

"Airline Quality", like most websites of its genre, is written by those with axes to grind.

TA

[Buster the Bear]

http://www.sopo.org/cgi-bin/news.cgi?action=full_story_SOPO&id=76228&unpub=false&strt=&act=search_SOPO&term=&keyword_bool=&websiteId=2

[TwinAisle]

It will be a surprise hit

If it is predicted to be a hit, how will that be a surprise? :}

TA

[MonkeyB]

From the same article in today's Western Mail:

"Cardiff International has reintroduced services to Paris, a route that was dropped when Air Wales ceased operations. And it hopes to see new services to Aberdeen, Dusseldorf, Munich and more routes to Spain, Italy and to Katowice, Poland."

Is this a slip by the WM or PeterP? Is Paris about to be confirmed?

MB

[TwinAisle]

Mr Phillips knows how to irritate bmibaby as well...

"Belfast City will join our existing Irish routes to Dublin, Cork and Galway."

Anyone for BFS?

[caaardiff]

Spencer Birns, head of the airport's Aviation Business Relationships, said top of its wish list was to attract a US route, complementing Zoom's regular low-fare services to Toronto and Vancouver.
Bookings to Canada are 10% up on this time last year.

This time last year Zoom had already started YYZ (in Jan) and it run direct CWL-YYZ through the summer.
This year it doesnt start until Apr and both YYZ and YVR are via BFS. Great progress! Also Zoom UK wont be around CWL for a long time, or even at all!
:ugh:
It is nice to see the possibility of these routes starting, and the fact they are now being talked about in more detail is promising.
But as other have said in the past, with CIAL, i wont beleive it until i see it.

[flower]

Gosh for such a small airport it certainly gets plenty of posts.

I'm going to write in defence of the airport, before John Horne and his colleagues took over the running of the airport it had been neglected for many a year, capital expenditure had been poor to non existent with projects pushed back and back so that when the current hierarchy took over they were faced with a massive project of works just to bring the place up to standard let alone push forward with expansion. Many projects which most at the airport and certainly passengers will not be aware of have gone ahead which have costs hundreds of thousands if not Millions. We are now seeing an expansion of the terminal building, increase and improvement of stand layout and lets face it an increase to over 2 million passengers last year.

We can all stand back and say oh we aren't Bristol, we aren't Manchester but lets just look at what has gone on at the place. I have been here 7 years and have seen a marked improvement in the place.

Most of us with any connection to the airport wish to see it's success and that will most definitely include the MD and fellow board and other members of the management team. It is easy for those working for handling agents etc to say it's crap and nothing is happening but do you truly believe they just sit in their offices not trying to figure out how to make the best of the airport?

As regional airports go it is a lovely little place, airside is so much better than other small regionals I have been too, that isn't to say i don't want it to be improved and yes there is plenty of room for improvement but it is a dilemma for those trying to balance the books, they have to fund these changes and you only do that by the amount of capital you have.

Sometimes unfortunately you miss the boat and when Go was looking for a place to set up Cardiff wasn't in the position it is now, if it was who is to say how things would have been.

Just an aside in defence of Twin Aisle, where he and I may have certain personal differences of opinions he has been in the business of airlines for many a year, perhaps he does come across as arrogant at times, but then who doesn't when they talk about their own profession, his posts are worth reading and directed personal remarks are below the belt.

[pipertommy]

Don`t these extra routes sound abit like Flybe`s ground Paris ,Aberdeen,Germany...??
Why does it seem to be refered to as a base if it`s not planned to be one at present??
Anyone know more about the north/south airlink?

[mathers_wales_uk]

aparently there will be an announcment in the next month of who has got the contract to operate it. In the last article i looked at it said there were three airlines competing for the contract.

[pipertommy]

Thanks Mathers,not long then:) Thanks

[TwinAisle]

I'd like to publicly thank Flower for her comments. She is right, her and I have had a few personal differences of opinion, but her views on the airport are, typically for her, spot on. She, like me, comes at this with years of experience of the industry, her in a technical professional role, me in a managerial role, and spookily enough, we tend to reach the same conclusions. If I come across as arrogant, well I am sorry, but it does become very wearing on here reading all the spotter's wishlists for the airport, alongside the misinformed comments of those who think they could run the airport/its airlines/its ATC unit better than those who do. Those of us in the industry - and who are close to the industry in Cardiff in particular - know the players involved, and yes, I have questioned some of their decisions in the past. So has Flower - but in both our cases and others I am sure it is a case of frustration, optimism and to counteract the "Cardiff is a Dump" claims of too many on here. Could I do JH's job better than him? No, absolutely not, and I wouldn't even want the stress of trying.

Cardiff is indeed not as good an airport as many - I'm thinking Dubai, Singapore etc. But it is a DAMN sight better than many airports of its size. I won't name and shame the dozens of regional airports I can think of that come well below CWL in terms of investment, potential, and ease of use.

I am sure if JH and his team had a magic wand, or a shed full of tenners, they would probably start again and build 21st Century airport, probably not at Rhoose, with a mainline station on site, four runways, one amazing terminal and dozens of jetway-equipped stands. They would install chaises longues for all the passengers to wait on, and fountains full of asses' milk for the ATCOs to bathe in, and a free bar and gym on site for all the ground handlers.

But in the absence of a magic wand or shedloads of tenners, they, like all businesses, must do what they can with what they have.

Cardiff is visibly better than it was even two years ago, let alone the seven years that Flower referred to. It is building traffic, and building revenue - perhaps not as fast as many on here would like (myself and Flower may well be in that band!) but what can really be done about it that isn't being done already? Do you think, say, BA would still be there, or Emirates would be there, if the airport gave them zero costs? I don't.

What Cardiff needs is a new, based operator committed to the area. It needs someone to give it a major boost in traffic and pax numbers, to get it through the 2.5-3m mark, and give it serious critical mass. This would then give the team at the airport more clout, more money and more ability to get the better shops, better restaurants, better bars etc that the airport would surely benefit from - but who are not going to give the place a second glance with low footfall numbers.

Perhaps the airport has someone in mind for this. Perhaps they will have to pick up whatever routes they can and build critical mass slowly. Whatever, some of us will carry on banging the drum for the old place!

TA

[cwl747]

I do reailise the airport has come on greatly, i just sort off got on my soap box, i will apologise if i offended any one in my comments, and if i came acroos as a bit of a know it all that im not luckily. And thank god we got a PAris route back:ok:

[TwinAisle]

And thank god we got a PAris route back

Has this actually been announced by anyone? Nothing on any website I can find....

[Smile!!!]

Well no, the route hasnt even been realesd yet. (That if it is too be realesed). To skeptical, I think not.

Through reading all this recent JH bashing, (And yes I have done this too) I must agree that the whole management team havent done that bad with what they had. There are some similar regional airports who have invested a hell of a lot less, with in some ways a worse management team. But sadly there are realities with CWL, such as the poorer catchment area, certinaley not on its knees, but certinaley not the wealth that the BRS catchment area.

I also read about the woman who was 'chucked' off a EZY plane at BRS going from BRS-NCL, because she had too babies and a stranger had agreed too carry the baby, but EZY wouldnt allow it on child protection rights, anyway back too the point, she was seeing her family in Cardiff, surley if a different airline such as BE came on that route there would be 3 more PAX (Never minding the fact they were ejected). That eastern, although having its own large market from CWL, isnt attracting too many Non-BIZ PAX.

The routes too mentioned are a bit like looking at the current BE routemap from the rest of the UK. We will only tell when the BE_BA debacle is over, and we see a better picture of what will be happening at BRS, and at BE after the merger.

Smile!!!

[bycrewlgw]

Totally off the subject of the past few post guys and gals, but it was said some while back, maybe over a year ago, that BA were looking at making a come back at CWL. Could this be why BE are coming in to CWL? Random I know but just a thought!

(EX! :) )BYCREWLGW

[TwinAisle]

BA back at Cardiff? Well, past experience has taught me never to try and double-guess the people at Waterworld, but it would fly in the face of all logic if BA are winding up their regional operation just about everywhere else, only to, in parallel, reopen routes to someone else's low-cost hub.

I have a feeling this rumour can trace its routes back to wikipedia - someone suggested on there that BA were looking to run a 777 service to JFK from CWL. The danger of wikipedia is that anyone can write it, even the terminally clueless....!

It was removed very quickly, but this one seems to be doing the rounds... fuelled no doubt as well by the peripatetic A320 at Cardiff recently...

I would guess flybe are having a pop on the BHD to see what baby do, rather than to pre-empt a BA re-appearance, à la Banquo's ghost.

TA

[bycrewlgw]

TA, yeah thats probably where I got it from! Cheers matey!

[Morrihell]

Funnily enough BMED have sent another load of fresh air down the M4 from Heathrow tonight, the first one since the new year.

No doubt it'll go back again around midday.....

I went to Amsterdam today from BRS with Easyjet, plenty of Welsh accents on both the outbound AM flight and return PM one, and different sets of people flying each way. Wouldn't Baby be a better idea if you didn't intend to do a day trip from South Wales?

MH.

[mathers_wales_uk]

LHR - CWL (Night Stop) - LHR

This is due to having to keep the slot at LHR until it's new route is confirmed.

The reason it has not been operating since the new year, is that offices (im not sure if it was ATC in london) were being moved and no unecessary traffic were to move. This came from BMED ops but i doubt it would take a month to move offices.

According to the flightdeck, Virgin do similar things but they fly a light a/c instead of one of their fleet as it is cheaper on running costs.

[flower]

I see that Rhodri windbag has said that there is no money for an upgrade of the Road to the airport or the New St Athan facility.

Of course if we didn't have that waste of money called the WAG the money would probably be there, and they are already backtracking from promises made to Matrix. All bodes well.....not

[Cymru in Paris]

bmibaby flying to Murcia from Cardiff, and upping flight to Faro, Jersey and Palma...

http://info.cwlfly.com/en/news/3/245/bmibaby-announces-further-developments-at-cardiff-international-airport.html

Still

[MonkeyB]

bmibaby are fighting back against TOM and flybe:

PMI going daily instead of 3 weekly
JER 3 weekly
FAO 4 weekly

BFS morning departure retimed to 7am instead of the stupid 1020

New route to Murcia 4 times weekly

Taking up slack in the schedule so no 4th aircraft

MB

[PeterP]

Is this a slip by the WM or PeterP?
This WM article came from a young lady who didn't seem to know anything about the field and didn't seem to be listening to the answers she got. I certainly made no reference to Paris and suggest that the entire piece could never stand up to PPrune scrutiny, shall we say? About as accurate as a caption on a Sun Page 3 picture.
Good to see realism among many of the posts now appearing here. We are still predicting pax growth but venture to remark that carriers need to see better yield from all UK airports this year ... 2006 was not good ... so the system should not add capacity in too great a measure. Unless everyone wants to work harder for less money, that is.

[MonkeyB]

This WM article came from a young lady who didn't seem to know anything about the field and didn't seem to be listening to the answers she got. I certainly made no reference to Paris and suggest that the entire piece could never stand up to PPrune scrutiny, shall we say? About as accurate as a caption on a Sun Page 3 picture.



Doesn't sound like the WM they're normally so accurate!:}

No truth to this TOM Orly rumour then Peter?

MB

[PeterP]

I've heard that rumour, too. :ugh:

[mathers_wales_uk]

nice to see that there will be extra flights by BMI Baby, i'm guessing that means the A/C will be coming in Later at night, S06 seen the ALC come in at 2am if i can recall corectly (if it does then good news for the handling agents). I'm guessing that the paris route was too expensive thats why their adding muricia instead.

What does the scheduling for the 3 a/c look like?


Murcia x 4 (New Route)
Palma x 7 From - From 4 times weekly
Jersey x 3 - From a Weekly
Faro x 4 - From a Weekly
Belfast x 2 - Changed schedule to make better for business pax
Glasgow x 1 - Reduced from twice daily
Edinburgh (Twic Daily) - Stays the same
Alicante ?

Advertising links removed

*******************************************************

The fourth A/C has definetly gone to Birmingham now, but i think it was a close call as it took them so long the make a decision on the last a/c.

[a1234]

I really am starting to get a bit annoyed by baby now, I fly on CWL-GLA every Thursday and Saturday and I always use it as a so called business day return but instead of ramping up Palma they could have sorted this one out instead! Looks like it won't just be me going to BRS and having to use ezy from march now that this is just once per day. Another thing that annoys me is the Welsh accent at BRS on flights like AMS!

And murcia?! Yes its a good route, but what about Rome or even Lisbon? Why can't they show a bit of innovation and try focusing on this so called base a bit more? Now that they have 9, yes 9, based 737s at BHX (with 5 daily Glasgow returns) and just 3 a/c here we all know where their interests lie. I'll make a point of never flying with them again because if they hadn't bothered coming here in the first place with such fanfare maybe we could have had a proper investment by Flybe then. Baby are pathetic and show no vision whatsoever, and the abomination that is the CWL management they need to be chucked out soon, because they have lost my business.

So whos going to operate a Rome route now? And paris, well that was just a joke anyway looks like the airport think thats not important anymore either. Looks like their wishlist will remain just that a piece of paper to ward off ever increasing criticism.

[xtypeman]

Its good to see support for CWL Flower and TA. Heres another thought to ponder. If an airport gets a dominate airline EZY RYR or the like it could damp off interest CWL has attracted several different airlines a good case of not all your eggs in one basket. Flybe are trying BHD and may well look at other routes but only using a Dash 8 that limits the oportunitys (sorry guys do not know the performance of a Q400). Airlines have to plan well in advance for any new route. I start this week planning slots for winter 07 and the airline i am currently with already have an outline timetable for summer 08 as well. Operating between point A and B is a culmination of a lot of elements. A/c crew maintenance slots marketing etc etc.... If an operator is going to start ORY this summer then slots have just been finalised. As per Bmed this could be a holding route. Flybe some years ago operated an EXT-LGW twice daily with a Navajo just to hold the slots. Slots at major airports are worth a lot especially at peak times i hark back to Air Wales operation into CDG this was using a Bmi mainline slot that was avaliable at the time. CWL airport long live the wish list keep up the improvments and you never no what may happen!

Continued: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3132073#post3132073