Kids in the Plane

[GWidgery]

I'm a PPL holder and offered a friend a flight today. He asked if it's possible for his two young sons to come along (almost 3 and 6). What's the general consensus of taking children this young up in a light aircraft.

More importantly is it legal?
I was thinking about insurance, harnesses, headsets etc.

Anyone have any advice on this?

[Twiddle]

perfectly legal and they'll love it, get either cushions or boster seats so they can see out, my 3 (4,6 and 8 but been up since 2,4, and 6) love helis and fixed wing, 8 year old has even flown a pa28 for half an hour, top sprog!

[Gertrude the Wombat]

they'll love it
Maybe. Mine just fell asleep at that age, so I did rather wonder whether I'd have been better off giving the seats to someone else.

[GWidgery]

Did you give them normal headsets? or special kids ones?

[IO540]

Without a doubt, have an adult present, in case the child(ren) get frightened, etc. You don't want to have to deal with a serious passenger situation while trying to fly and land the plane.

[visibility3miles]

Kids love it, but yes young ones tend to fall asleep. Use a car seat for children -- it buckles right in as it would in a car and gives them a better view.

I always had kids sit in the back seat unless they were old enough to not play with all those cute knobs and gizmos. (Like the fuel or yoke!) Having another adult along is a good idea.

I also have them use those small foam ear protectors, as their ears are probably more sensitive to noise than an adults and they may be too small for a headset or may find it uncomfortable. If you do have headset(s) that fit, the older one at least would probably enjoy a commentary. Fly over their house or yours or their favorite park or someplace else they know.

And bring an airsick bag or two just in case, but I never had a problem with that.

[RatherBeFlying]

The elder Master RbF twice got sick during the flare of a crosswind landing when aged 3-4 years:ouch:

[aluminium persuader]

Master Persuader first flew at 6 weeks old, his sister at two years. Didn't use any ear defenders or headsets & it didn't bother them at all. A/c is no noisier than my lawnmower anyway!

Master P did throw up all over his car-seat during a very turbulent flight once. Gave him a little bit of a travel-sickness tablet before the return leg & all was fine.

[S-Works]

There is a lot to be said of aircraft with cargo holds.....

[BEagle]

Yup - a soundproof, leakproof steel trunk bolted to the floor of the baggage hold sounds the best idea to me!

[tmmorris]

My 2 year old didn't really start to enjoy flying until around his 2nd birthday (now nearly 3) but he loves it now - though he does usually sleep for some of the time. He now has his own headset.

I haven't yet dared take him on my own - I always take another adult so they can deal with him if he is scared/ill/wriggly - but some time when he is 4 or 5 I expect this will be OK. He is lucky enough to have a godfather who is also a pilot (a professional one) so the three of us usually fly together.

His toy aircraft are apparently not allowed to fly until he has pronounced 'Clear takeoff'. I fear I may have warped him.

Tim

[Farrell]

Yeah, always have another adult with you if you have kids on board.
Can't stress that enough.
But they absolutely love the whole adventure of it all!

[scooter boy]

Funniest thing I heard over the radio recently was some poor bu@@er in an R44 flying his family to Tresco (presumably for a relaxing break!)

Every time dad came on the radio to say something he was drowned out by his kids who were literally screaming in the background :{ - it must have really been mayhem in there with his poor Mrs trying to calm them down. This is why aircraft have a pilot ISO switch. It makes "are we nearly there yet" in the car almost palatable by comparison!

Flick to pilot ISO, put some music on and turn around and smile at them benevolently - remember first fly the aircraft.

SB

[Arrowflyer]

My 17 yr old falls asleep EVERY time about 30 seconds after take-off (having deposited some foul smelling gas before he does so). 30 secs after take-off, my 14 yr old asks if he can use his game boy now (and why the 17 yr old always does that).

Actually, kids love it, but you have to make it interesting. I have participated in some Young Aviators days where pilots take kids (Cubs & Scouts) up for a 20 minute flight and aerial treasure hunt.

Getting them to point things out that they are familiar with is a great way to work a first (or any other) flight. Get them on Google Earth, find some landmarks on your route, print them out and get the kids to see if they can find them. It's really good fun and keeps them occupied.

Keep sick bags handy and do not let them sit in the back on their own (or at least behind the pilot as you cannot see their expressions of comfort or otherwise). You need to be able to deal with any issues that arise so keep back seat youngsters in sight.

You can of course play "I Spy".

[Martin @ EGLK]

I went through the same things a few weeks ago. The responses from then are linked below.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=246730

Good luck. I hope they enjoy it as much as Jess did.

[Al Smith]

I went up with my three year old daughter, my stepson (15) and his friend (15). Got myself into a silly situation really where I was landing down wind and my daughter was screaming her head off. It was not helped by the fact that I was pretty sure I was going into vortex ring. I got down in one peice eventually, but screaming kids are not conducive to stress free flying. My advice is always take an adult when flying with small children.

[gasax]

Children are rather like dogs - that goes for their behaviours and most other things!

They can smell fear - so if you're worried - they'll magnify it!

If you're confident and competent - they will act like they usually do. So if you're kids are ill mannered little toerags - strangley enough that's what they'll be.

My daughter flew with me from a couple of months until she was 13 (flying is now no longer cool - largely because her friends cann't do it and so it's too elitist.

But up until she was 4 or so she generally slept. From about 6 she wanted to fly and by 11 she was an expert at cloud busting.

I remember it as a series of wonderful experiences.

She always had hearing protection, initially just ear defenders then a kid's headset. In the back she always had a car seat and generally enjoyed it. In the front she had a booster seat (and I worked the pedals!).

So if you don't know the kids get someone who does. It they haven't flown (the minder that is) before they are a no no - they also must exude a level of confidence - remember kids can smell fear and many of them can be very wimpy!!

This is not a huge adventure - it is an everyday occurence, its supposed to be boring - if it isn't then the 'pilot' is n't doing his job. Then the kids can look out the window and enjoy things and that is the point.

[Al Smith]

Gasax,

Sorry to hear your daughter thinks flying is uncool, she must have very high expectations in life. I am a low hours PPL H - and I guess that my sham of total control and confidence, although belived by the well mannered adults (well they give the impression of not being terrified), does not fool the kids. I have to say my daughter has been OK on subsequent flights but from now on its with her mother in the adjacent seat.

[skydriller]

I first took SD jr up when he was two and a half, first flight was a 20min local tour and back to the aerodrome. He sat in his car seat in the back, with another adult along side me just in case, and he loved it. He had previously taken an interest in my flying stuff, so he had tried on a normal headset just for fun prior to the flight. A month later I took him up alone for the first time and did just a couple of circuits as a tester, again in his car seat with a normal headset -no problem!! From day one, before each flight I always tell him not to touch anything without me saying its OK first or he wont fly with me again, and I have never had a problem with him as regards the controls etc even when he now sits next to me in the front.

SD jr is 5 now so sits on his car booster seat and comes flying around once a month, sometimes for a jolly, and sometimes we nip over to see his grandparents for the day, or sometimes to drop him off for a few days "holiday". So far the longest flight has been about 45-50 minutes. He has always loved going "sideways" and doing "bouncy bits".......so much so that on a BA flight to London last year during the high winds, when we exited the aeroplane he complemented the crew on how cool the flight was "cause it was really bouncy, just like when daddy flies".......er....thanks son.....

Regards, SD..

[TurboJ]

I have taken my kids up since the age of 3 and they love it. My boy is now 7 and helps out with the R/T. Much better than some of my PPL students as well. (I am an instructor so it is legal as well.)

Booster seats are essential. Take a friend on the first few trips. Keep the first few trips short. Any noises such as gear and flap extension, retraction should be explained so as not to frighten them.

Another tip is also know how to use the autopilot and how to couple it to the GPS as this gets another crew member involved should you need to give them some attention for whatever reason.

I would thoroughly recommend getting kids involved from an early age. The days of visiting the flight deck on commercial aircraft are long gone and this is an ideal way to get them involved.

[kingtoad]

I've had both my kids in my Cessna 210 since they were about 10 weeks old. The 4 yo absolutely loves it, the 1 yo & the missus just fall asleep. It is sooo much nicer to do 1hr 20mins in the plane vs 8 hours in the car with kids this age to go visit oma & opa.

We use their seats from the car. I have an adult headset that I put on the 4yo. Nothing for the 1 yo.

Its all good !

[gingernut]

Mine love it, but I've got this thing about not taking them both together.

Just in case.....


Funny thing is, never even have the same thoughts if I'm taking them out in the car.

[tmmorris]

Having now tried it... don't do single-pilot IFR/IMC with a three-year-old and no other adult. I got overloaded at the point when Brize asked me to contact Gloucester on box 2 - two radios plus the 3-year-old was more than I could handle!

But with another adult (and preferably an audio panel which can isolate the pilot for busy times) - fine.

Tim

[rateone]

Both my boys (age 10 and 6) love it. The younger one is probably the keenest but tends to be a little overexcited and talks a lot which is rather wearing. The eldest is much quieter and we have been away together on several overnight trips since he was 5 or so. He is rather blase about the whole thing and on long flights tends to play his gameboy. Both have been flying since they were small. Both made their first flights aged about 18months and both fell asleep. When they were small we used car seats and small ear plugs and I always flew with another adult on board. Now I get by with a booster seat and cushions but they do have a child's headset.

Like Gingernut I don't fly with them together, nor do we fly as a family - just in case. This is largely due to spousal pressure. Odd that, as we have no qualms about travelling the length of the country in a car.

This year we are planning a longer trip and the possibility of single pilot IFR with a child on board is a little worrying.

[Ridgerunner]

I've always had two trains of thought about this. I don't have kids and don't plan on having kids for several years yet (lol probably a decade), but what I would worry about is that taking the kids up from a young age, they would find it blase eventually and would not see the thrill and excitment of it when they come to choosing careers, hobbies etc. I have been surrounded by aviation to a certain extent when I was very young (like my uncle flying me around on a dinner tray playing flying saucers) to having lego and toy aircraft. I didn't fly in a light aircraft until I was 15 but before then I was hooked on Microsoft Flight Sim and knew it inside out. So flying was always a big thrill and adventure and I couldn't wait to get my hands on a real aircraft. Now I have my PPL and I am in a UAS and I feel like I am fulfilling my dreams, so if I wanted my kid to be a pilot, I'm not sure if flying them as they grow would be conducive. Then again, they should have the opportunity to decide their own futures!

Anyone have any opinions on this?

[Al Smith]

Ridgerunner, I have beeen in and around aircraft since I was a baby, my father used to fly us regularly and had an Auster based at Shoreham. Both my brothers are commercial pilots and I myself am a PPL(H) so I think it's good to start young. It has in no way diminished the thrill I get everytime I go up.

Al.