Jetstar to spread like contagious disease....... :)

[blueloo]

Jetstar to expand flights to Europe and US

November 3, 2006 - 12:22PM





Qantas' low-cost carrier Jetstar will expand flights into Europe and North America by 2010, Jetstar chief executive Alan Joyce says.
Mr Joyce today unveiled four refurbished planes that will begin taking the airline's first international passengers later this month.
The international fleet will begin with four 303-seat Airbus A330s, with the inaugural flight from Melbourne to Bangkok on November 23.
Other international flights being phased in from late November will go to Japan, Vietnam, Phuket, Bali and Hawaii.
Mr Joyce said the airline would expand into Europe and North America by 2010.
He said the refurbished Airbuses had been inherited from Qantas and were three years old.
But, he said, Jetstar would purchase a Boeing 787 by late 2008 and ultimately replace the current fleet with up to 15 of the planes.
"We've been saying in advertising now for the last few months that it's all about choice,'' he told guests at Melbourne Airport.
"The first big one worth mentioning is StarClass (StarClass). StarClass is a business-type product at economy prices.''
The revamped Airbuses still sport the silver body and orange under-belly of the domestic carriers, but the seats have been reupholstered with plush leather.
There are 38 StarClass seats where passengers will receive a full meal and entertainment service.
Passengers in the 265 economy seats can pay as they go if they want food or extra entertainment.
AAP

[PammyAnderson]

RIP Qantas mainline conditions, promotion career path, :(

[Ultralights]

Goodbye Qantas....... i suppose we will have to get used to wearing thongs, tracksuit pants and a Flanno when we fly anywhere, i suppose a plastic bag for carry on wouldn't look out of place either...

how long before first and business class service are relegated to train travel only?

[LetsGoRated]

Enough of the "Newsflash" already!!!
This has been common knowledge for the last 18 months, why are you guys so suprised??:rolleyes:

[Ultralights]

i suppose the real question is, how long before QF start handing their routes to J*? and give pax more "choice"?

[Still Lookin'......]

Any one know anything of the rumour that QantasLink will eventually become "Jetstar Regional", or "JetstarLink" or similar?

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Jetstar to expand flights to Europe and US

November 3, 2006 - 12:22PM


He said the refurbished Airbuses had been inherited from Qantas and were three years old.

AAP

in·her·it (n-hrt) Pronunciation Key
v. in·her·it·ed, in·her·it·ing, in·her·its
v. tr.

To receive (property or a title, for example) from an ancestor by legal succession or will.
To receive by bequest or as a legacy.
To receive or take over from a predecessor: The new administration inherited the economic problems of the last four years.
Biology. To receive (a characteristic) from one's parents by genetic transmission.
To gain (something) as one's right or portion.


Well he got that right...:{

[Chronic Snoozer]

"The first big one worth mentioning is StarClass (StarClass). StarClass is a business-type product at economy prices.''
The revamped Airbuses still sport the silver body and orange under-belly of the domestic carriers, but the seats have been reupholstered with plush leather.
There are 38 StarClass seats where passengers will receive a full meal and entertainment service.
Passengers in the 265 economy seats can pay as they go if they want food or extra entertainment.
AAP

This is all a bit of smoke and mirrors isn't it?

A 'business-type product' at economy prices??

'passengers will receive a full meal and entertainment service' Isn't that just today's economy service? (on every other half decent airline) So you get an economy service at economy prices?? Wow.

I really wonder whether there are so many of the great unwashed that are prepared to torture themselves for 8 hours on a pay-as-you-go basis for the sake of a few dollars. Methinks Jetjoke are trying to force customers down a very unappealing road of choice to a product of little value. Vote with your feet and bring on more services to Australia by Emirates and their ilk.

[mauswara]

Yes Mr. Joyce it is all about choice.This trip I'll CHOOSE Emirates, next trip ,maybe Singapore.Good bye Qantas!

[Pete Conrad]

Your missing the point guys...it's Jetstar spin, we have to believe it, It's called brainwashing, it happens when you accept a position as a pilot with Jetstar, so why should the public be any different.

[longjohn]

Yaaaaawwwwn.

There actually WAS a time when I shared the same sentiments as those above. Unfortunatley reality kicked in.

Domestically they are doing extremely well. I believe September was a record month, have not heard about October yet. T

The FACT is that Jetstar international is WAY ahead of its own projections for forward bookings. Ask your hairdresser, neighbour etc about them, they all know about Jetstar international and are excited about the prospect of cheaper international travel.

Sure, the passengers tend to be more from the rougher end of town, so what?

[Ultralights]

so what? i CHOOSE to have a premium service, i CHOOSE to pay a little more for a nice big seat and to be waited on.. when i travel by air...

with Jetscar taking over everything, i no longer have that CHOICE! :ugh:

hence i have no longer Chosen QF.... :=



Sure J* are doing well, and good on them for opening up air travel to the great unwashed masses, but what about the great clean masses that appreciate service? and a quality product?? and don't mind paying for that quality..... what Choice do they have? obviously not an Australian option anymore!:mad:

[Pete Conrad]

Yeah, Jetstar Internationals initial bookings are good, they are all the transferred passengers from Qantas services........same thing when they started the Tasman flying, bragged about athe high load factors when really, they were QF pax transferred from Qantas/Jetconnect flights. Never let the facts stand in the way of good press...or in Jetstar speak, good spin.

If Jetstar are doing so good, why are Virgin undaunted. Virgin are making good profits without hedging and the same handouts that QF give Jetstar. Maybe a good frequency of flights to certain centers in the jungle jet with Virgin might turn out to be more of a success than one Jetstar A320 everyday to the same port? I reckon Virgin may be onto something?

I wonder how many passengers will return to Jetstar international after discovering they don't get the perks no more..time will tell.

[RENURPP]

Ask your hairdresser, neighbour etc about them
I wouldn't bother asking my hairdresser or neighbour, I tell them all about Tiger and what a neat lttle service they provide ex darwin, and around 50% the Jetpox price.

I used to travel Qantas, Now my choice is not to fly Jetpox.

Go Tiger I say.

Darwin to Phuket return, and you can get there in 1 day, $450.
Jetpox is around $900 just darwin Singapore return.

[Going Boeing]

The only way for this contagious disease to spread is if they get sufficient pilots. The only way that we can stop conditions being undermined is for us all to stop sniping at the perceived tall poppies and band together. I know that some of you will say that it's fine for me to mouth off when I'm enjoying the job that many of you want, however, I'm very concerned about the future of our profession. I want all those new to the profession to have the same opportunities that I have had.

With the very large number of aircraft that Qantas and Virgin Blue have ordered as well as many of the overseas carriers, there is a very strong demand for pilots over the next 3 to 6 years. If as a pilot group we black ban working for Jetstar, then conditions will not be eroded. Those of you in GA who want an airline job will be making a better long term decision about your careers by rejecting Jetstar now, staying another 12-18 months in GA and then end up with a career with QF, DJ or a quality overseas operator (possibly based in Oz). At least you would have decent terms and conditions and you will have a sense of pride in that you didn't contribute to undermining your profession. :)

[podbreak]

Going Boeing, I support the cause, but suggesting GA guys should knock back JetStar is insane. You can't ask that of these folks. Perhaps hold out on application, but even that is a tall order. I'm sure you are aware that the * has been offering opportunities to some pilots otherwise condemed to GA or small regional operators. As I understand it, unlike QF, Jetstar don't need year 12 graduates, and thus opens the door to many folk who can't go overseas for all sorts of reasons.

I should point out that I don't work for the *, nor do I support the conditions which they offer their pilots. However, I think its unreasonable to expect those who are offered an opportunity to further advance their career, to fight our fight. I do understand that QF can potentially erode mainline into the dust by expanding the orange beast, but I do not think that Joe GA who has been offered a significant pay rise and jet flying opportunity should knock it back because QF pilots (and potentially the rest) will get screwed. How we actually attack the problem? I dunno.... :{

[podbreak]

Thought this might relate to this thread:

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5847613

[Wingspar]

Are they changing the rego?

Pity to see those great old Qantas rego's that have adorned the premier aircraft over the years plastered on the side of that rubbish!

[Ron & Edna Johns]

Yes. What a disgrace..........

http://www.707.adastron.com/gallery/vh-ebd-1.jpg

Boeing 707-138 VH-EBD at Karachi during its delivery flight in August 1959, according to http://www.707.adastron.com/gallery/vh-ebd-1.htm

[DutchRoll]

Yaaaaawwwwn.
Domestically they are doing extremely well. I believe September was a record month, have not heard about October yet.
Well I hope that's backed up by their next profit. It sure as hell wasn't on their last one, despite all the capital equipment and services they pilfered from QF mainline. Wow, September was a record month! By what milestone, exactly, was that measured?
The FACT is that Jetstar international is WAY ahead of its own projections for forward bookings. Ask your hairdresser, neighbour etc about them, they all know about Jetstar international and are excited about the prospect of cheaper international travel.
Uh huh. Not exactly a great claim to fame when you completely cancel mainline services to a destination being taken over by JQ International. Oh, and when was the last time you saw the choir singing "I still call Australia home"?

But hey longjohn, why let facts get in the way of a good story?

[Keg]

.....suggesting GA guys should knock back JetStar is insane. You can't ask that of these folks.

Knocking back? Perhaps. Not putting an application in? Perhaps. The point that GB makes is that whilst pilots continue to apply for and sing on to crap terms and conditions then there is no reason to change the terms and conditions is there. The GA driver who says no to a $35K endorsement bill and $40K as an 'cruise F/O' ( :rolleyes: ) today may well be the same GA driver who signs on for a bond and $60K in 12 months time. It only works if all GA drivers value their own worth though. :ugh:

[longjohn]

Wow, September was a record month! By what milestone, exactly, was that measured?
Uh huh. Not exactly a great claim to fame when you completely cancel mainline services to a destination being taken over by JQ International.

Which International mainline services have been cancelled in favor of Jetstar International?

Phuket?
Bangkok?
Osaka?
Ho Chi Min?
Honolulu?

Perhaps you are meaning Australian Airlines operated services, now operated by Jetstar Asia?

These are the FACTS.

There is no doubt that the wages paid to pilots in Jetstar are below Qantas, however, are Jetstar Pilots earning less than Virgin Blue pilots? So why the vitriol solely directed at Jetstar?

Like many other readers of this forum, I am getting tired of the myopic view held by some when it comes to Jetstar. That unmentionable year has been replaced by Jetstar in Pprune as a topic seemingly incapable of attracting rational discussion.

Yet, sure as hell, if Dixon were to announce tomorrow that QF pilots were to operate the JQ International services, (on current JQ terms and Conditions) that would be fine. :oh: :ok: If not, then Dutchy and his mates better let Woods know that he is wasting his time. :hmm:

Oh, and one more thing, if we are seriously suggesting that GA pilots should boycott Jetstar in order to prop up Qantas pilots terms and conditions? If so, then why not Virgin Blue as well? After all, it was Virgin Blue pilots who started the rot, Jetstar was merely a reaction. Then what about National Jet? Or Alliance?

Given that Qantas management appears to be a massively pro - Jetstar , I would have thought we should be trying to engage the Jetstar pilot group?

The current strategy of hurling insults from the sideline only serves to foster division and drive them closer to management

[flyingins]

Here's a great idea,
How about any Qantas pilot who feels it necessary to advise some bloke flying a 310 in the Territory that they will "be making a better long term decision about (their) careers by rejecting Jetstar now, staying another 12-18 months in GA", tenders their resignation immediately and allows the GA bloke to take their QF position.

That way they can show all the other GA pilots just how "valuable" they really are (OMG, a former Qantas pilot is in town!) and also the GA pilot can have the only job he or she may be allowed to accept under your narrow, utopian view of the world.

There's an old saying out there, gentlemen - "Fight your own battles". Asking GA pilots to refuse employment with any airline is a little bit too much like what Cathay pilots did to their "colleagues" after the 49ers dispute.

The world won't go out of its way to protect you or (like you give a stuff) "the industry". You have to do that all on your own.

As longjohn quite correctly said, you "should be trying to engage the Jetstar pilot group" - we are more than amenable to it but by virtue of numbers aren't able to instigate an effective campaign - there are 2500 of you and 300 of us. What's worse - our existence or your inaction?

[illusion]

DirectAnyWhere- another FACT to add to the list:

Impulse pilots approached AIPA about 6 years ago to join the union and were unceremoniiously told to "f++k off" as AIPA was only for QANTAS skygods.
The only interest AIPA now has in the regionals and J* is to control the pilots and belatedly protect their own after the horse has well and trully bolted.

[DutchRoll]

Wow flyingins. You score the PPrune prize for the most flagrant contradiction ever typed into a single post!

You agree we "should be trying to engage the Jetstar pilot group", but advocate "fight you own battles" and "you have to do that all on your own". I personally think we should engage the Jetstar pilot group (and certain former AIPA presidents should be taken outside and given a flogging for not bothering to try and unite Oz airline pilots much earlier), but your "have to go it alone - go and get stuffed and fight your own battles you arrogant mainliner" style makes me think that is a pipe dream.

Edit: and Pete's point below about certain members of the JPC is also very valid - they have demonstrated that they are absolutely not interested in any sort of reconciliation/unifying concept whatsoever.

[Kanga767]

Longjohn, try Darwin-Singapore.

As previously mentioned in the thread, I'll be going Tiger from now on. Oh and we're talking 2 or 3 journeys a year here too.

K

[kellykelpie]

I have to agree with flyingins.

I think asking a GA pilot to "perhaps" reject a much better job shows a lack of perspective.

[Jetsbest]

1. The insults seem to go both ways, so some should stop trying to always point at QF w@n#ers. It's a bigger group so, naturally, more opinions to disagree with.... nothing new there.
2. History is just that... NONE of the current AIPA Executive told the JPC to get lost a few years ago ok. It is also recognised by many (& maybe most?) that to not get J* pilots on board before it came to this was a big mistake. There're plenty of theories about why that may have been allowed to occur at the time.
3. Even previous AIPA helped improve J* conditions from abysmal to be tolerable to some.
4. Despite QF & GD continually talking in the media about the many awards and unions which need simplification, when AIPA seriously proposes award unifications, simplifications and a 'group opportunity list' (who has the most to gain from that?) they get told "It's never going to happen!" by GD! Who does that serve, and why do some J*-centric opinions not see through the spin and ulterior perception management going on?
5. I believe Mr Joyce's August letter misrepresented several issues to you. As I understood it, AIPA's valid concern was that new and different standards (ie not as stringent as have previously applied to QF itself) were being applied to an expedited ETOPS approval under the implied commercial duress to CASA of selling tickets on iminent services yet to gain ETOPS approval. It's just too easy to write it all off as purely an 'industrial claim'. QF pilots have realised that it pays to have a healthy cynicism: look through the spin. The truth is there somewhere, sometimes a LONG way beneath the surface.

And GA guys/gals? Take whatever opportuity fits you best. Just realise that, in the current climate, and only in the most limited numbers, does anyone change between any QF-group airline. The QF group management is playing dirty to keep all the QF-group pilots apart. It seems that until large numbers start leaving from any 'separate subsidiary', most likely from the bottom-dollar up, QF will remain an aggressive employer offering slow progression unless you're in the bottom-dollar group. The flip side is that maybe, in the not-too-distant-future, it's the bottom-dollar pilots who'll use the expertise gained to fly the coop for some 'world's best practice' remuneration, often substantially better than QF's! Those of us looking at nearly 20yrs to command because we took the QF discount (S/O and slow promo) in the first place, are now feeling pretty naive in retrospect. :sad: :* :suspect: :hmm: :*

[MIss Behaviour]

RENURPP

Your post got me thinking....however the most ideal rego for the 'flagship' of the fleet has already been taken. :{ :{ Although VH-POX & VH-EBD have one thing in common - one is an amateur built aircraft and the other is an amateur built airline, or should that be an airline built by amateurs??? :D :D

The following info has been cut & pasted from the CASA website (my bolding).


The following aircraft matches your search criteria.

VH-POX

Power Driven Aeroplane with tricycle-fixed landing gear
Single Piston engine

Manufacturer: AMATEUR BUILT AIRCRAFT
Model: CH300
Serial number: N93
Aircraft first registered in Australia: 15 March 1984

Full Registration
Registration holder as of 19 July 2005

ANDERSON, John

34 Shiprock Rd
PORT HACKING NSW 2229
AUSTRALIA

Registered operator as of 19 July 2005

ANDERSON, John

34 Shiprock Rd
PORT HACKING NSW 2229
AUSTRALIA

[Pete Conrad]

The JPC and their illustrious leader didn't want anything to do with AIPA, although, the JPC and their group of merry men will go around telling everyone that AIPA shunned them. The JPC saw that QF mainline flying was going to go to them, and under threats and intimidation by the once TJ, and AJ re base closures, loss of command prospects etc, they were told to have nothing to do with AIPA.

Then when the Tasman flying came along, JPC and their illustrious leader again went sniffing to the company to get a deal, but were told by TJ that if you roll over your EBA, you will get the Tasman flying.

Then to add insult, when they start flying, they put out all sorts of spin saying how well they are doing, mmm, now lets see, they get all the handouts from QF, plus they get all the transferred pax from QF flights....

But hey guys, keep the dream alive, you guys rock!! Jetstar is such a cash cow for QF......yeah right!

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

Ironically, two of the founders of Impulses/QFlinks/Jetstars very 1st EBA are now with Qantas.One is a 767 F/O, the other a 2nd Officer on the 747. The package that these two put together was not popular but somehow it got up!. Laughably, the SO has been vocally critical of the jetstar group on qrew room. He was also the same guy that a few years ago continually over transmitted a SAR chopper, searching for a downed aircraft west of BNE, on guard. Organising your social life in the US should occur on the phone, not 121.5.

Double standards? You bet!!. Got to laugh at the comments coming from a group with a confirmed hull loss!!. Jesus wept!!.

The comments on this thread only serve to enhance your rep as a professional group!!.

DM

[Pete Conrad]

DM, I wouldn't be so smart re your hull loss comment, Impulse have had their fare share of mishaps...you want to talk about the loss of inflight control of a 1900 at Willy, or the 717 that came within 300 ft of the Bruce Highway... For a man of your purported stature thats an unfair call...then again, all Jetstar guys are defensive,must be as a result of the labotomy after the interview process to get in.

[Hugh Jarse]

VH-POX

Power Driven Aeroplane with tricycle-fixed landing gear
Single Piston engine

Manufacturer: AMATEUR BUILT AIRCRAFT
Model: CH300
Serial number: N93
Aircraft first registered in Australia: 15 March 1984

Full Registration
Registration holder as of 19 July 2005

ANDERSON, John

34 Shiprock Rd
PORT HACKING NSW 2229
AUSTRALIALaughed my arse off MissB :}

Jock Anderson is a Gynaecologist and a fine Scotsman......:E Apt choice of rego.

I taught Mrs. Anderson to fly. Both have great senses of humour :E

As for the rest of this thread:
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i6/HugeArse/retarded.jpg

[OneDotLow]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=230649&page=5

take a look at the top of page 5 of this thread... for those of you too lazy to click the link here is a reproduction of what I wrote back in June with regards to the former JPC president, who now is being groomed into a company training position on the JQI A330!

i hope you didnt sign off on the agreement by just listening to Romeo Hotel and his cronies... if you did, then you have been spun by the doctor! if i were a betting man, id put $50 on that bloke having a job in management within 2 years of the introduction of JQI. He did the same "smooth the boys over for us" job that QF's illustrious leader did!



i guess i should have put $5K on that and specified that it would happen BEFORE JQI even flew their first passenger... I hope you JQ pilots feel as though you were well advised when it came to that said agreement! I say, WELL DONE!!!:ugh:

[OneDotLow]

So why the vitriol solely directed at Jetstar?


why the #ark do you think?!

[RENURPP]

I don't work for either.Double standards? You bet!!. Got to laugh at the comments coming from a group with a confirmed hull loss!!. Jesus wept!!.

What a rediculous comment. Is this an indication of the style of jerk that works for Poxstar?

Pox star are new comers and have nothing to brag about.

QF's safety record to date is some thing to be proud of. The reasons may be many and varied but it is thjeir record.

Just hope they are able to maintain it in the current environment.

[Angle of Attack]

Jet* International will fail in Japan no doubt about it, I know people there and the general public doesnt have a clue who they are. Its all about brand recognition, and if you can go Singair for same price why go with Jet* , But having said that figures can be doctored how much of a loss will they subsidise until they give up? Jet* will go quite well to some destinations no doubt but going down to Melbourne to stay with your best mate for a weekend is different to an international holiday people arent gonna do it nearly as often, and I think they will struggle with the inbound market with brand recognition. But I will eat my humble pie in one year if I am wrong, its just my guess thats its not gonna be all its hyped up to be. Unfortunately if they fail, its bad for Qantas (because of all the funds squandered while the likes of Emirates etc double probably) and if they succeed it will be bad for Qantas mainline too its a no win situation. :(
But my guess is once they have to really compete rather than reduce mainline and substitute for Jet* they will fail miserably

[Chronic Snoozer]

This thread has crept onto the inevitable and predictable. Can't you guys duke it out on your own website or something? Perhaps you could swap mobile numbers and talk about it man to man. Honestly, its like mud-wrestling a pig....after a while you get the feeling you guys enjoy it.

Its ironic that Qantas lobbies the gummint hard to protect its routes all the while replacing its flagship fleet with, IMHO, a sub-standard product J*, which even more ironically is propped up by sharing a large part of its cost base with its parent. And they complain about M-rats!

I refuse to be shoehorned, nay almost blackmailed, into an inferior category of traveller because of the ridiculous protectionism displayed in Oz. Qantas whines to the government, competition is restricted, Qantas screws over the work force until its cost base is competitive and for what?? J* pay-as-you-go 'economy'? Stuff that, give me choice.

Sound management strategy from Qantas though, shareholders are pleased.

[mppgf]

blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah, blah,blah,blah,
blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah, blah,blah,blah,
blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah, blah,blah,blah,
blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah, blah,blah,blah,
**** ME!!!!!!! :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[Capt Fathom]

**** ME!!!!!!!
As a pilot in Oz these days mppgf, if you're not already, you soon will be!

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

Gday Pete.My old mate.Stature? well thats been long non existant in Aus aviation.Thats no secret. defensive?, only because of the terrible double standards that are obvious to all but the "chosen few". Im counting the days to my retirement,and after 38 years they are near. The shame of aviation these days is that its not the once great job it used to be. Through decades of head in the sand"im alright jack" union stances its been degraded to a unrecoverable point. Jetstar blokes are not to blame. Id argue that as the beacon of aviation in this country and the world mainliners high moral ground would be to include all QF group pilots instead of slagging from the high ground. Conditions not up to your exulted standard? perhaps a little pressure on AIPA may help. take a look at Nat Jet. No staff travel. I havent seen a debate about this ever!!!!. doesnt matter because it doesnt affect you?

Ill tell you straight up that, that was the comment from CM at the initial meeting after Impulse was aquired by QF. " We wont nor want to represent you in negotiations with the company". This was followed by the obligitary stunned silence.

My point is that for a perfect organisation that sets the standard and critisises all other players, you have to be perfect!!!

Ill mention a few places. Perth, Canberra, Darwin, Launceston,Sydney ( FMS initialisation issues) and of course the big one. QF 1.

All within the last 5 years.

No ones perfect. No one knows everything about flying. Simple.

DM

[Sandy Freckle]

My point is that for a perfect organisation that sets the standard and critisises all other players, you have to be perfect
They are YOUR words, DM, and yours alone. No-one in QF has stated that they are perfect. Your paranoia gets the better of you, mate.

Got to laugh at the comments coming from a group with a confirmed hull loss
So where exactly was that "hull loss" ya donkey?

And remember the phrase "there but for the grace of God go I"?

There is some serious dribble on this thread from both sides, but it is as obvious as the nose on your face that the terms accepted by the JPC and their members are draconian.

This is the sad thing is that this affects all of us in Australian Aviation.

Characters like DM, who throw barbs rather than attempt to resolve and improve the situation are responsible for the quagmire we ALL find ourselves in.

[flyingins]

My only barb of note was highlighting the audacity of anyone who thinks making third-parties suffer in order to further their own industrial cause is a prudent or justified move. It is not and suggesting GA pilots "refuse" to apply to or accept work with Jetstar is a selfish and unrealistic policy.

Dutch roll,
Carefully re-read what I previously wrote. "Fight your own battles" is a little different to "Fight the battle on your own". Believe it or not many Jetstar pilots want an accord with AIPA and its members very badly as we can see that it may become a mutually beneficial course of action. All we're railing against is the constant bombardment of asinine chest-beating and "holier-than-thou" name-calling any QF vs JQ thread automatically turns into.

[cunninglinguist]

Pete, very dissapointed, took you 'til post 10 :=

Alot of responders to this load of unadultarated crap wanna watch out, drug testing is now in and alot of you are obviously smoking crack:D

The fact that nobody can see any wrong in a 200K+ a year pilot asking a deathtrap flying 35K a year pilot to not join Jet* ( and not be laughing their t!ts off ) raises some serious questions about the physcological well being of some posters on this forum.

But someone did come up with a good idea, something about all sticking together, black banning something ...............................how about everyone who has nothing nasty, critical or non constructive to say about Jet*, black banning these threads ?? :D

[DutchRoll]

I've read it, re-read it, and re-read it again, and it still comes across as contradictory.

Anyway flyingins, you and longjohn both clearly said, "you should be trying to engage the Jetstar pilot group". I, quite clearly, agreed and am deeply disgusted at previous AIPA presidents attitudes towards Impulse pilots etc. And the Jetstar pilot representatives (NOT the line pilots), quite clearly, are not interested in such engagement.

It really is as simple as that unfortunately. When AIPA finally came to its senses mainline pilots were told we "had a seat at the table" by a certain very senior executive. The reality was that the table and chairs had already been packed away and we were led on a goose chase. The deal had already been done. Your representatives (not your line pilots) took the table and chairs away in the full knowledge of what had been said.

Your CEO has a publicly stated aim of preventing "mainline culture" (whatever that might be - I guess a good days pay for a good days work, rewards for the associated responsibility and professional requirements of the job, still one of the worlds best safety records, dunno - could be any number of things he doesn't like I suppose) from infiltrating Jetstar. Your representatives have so far been fully supportive of that aim. Like I said. Engagement? Won't be allowed to happen at the moment.

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

Well said Dutch Roll. That just about sums it all up. There are many dissatisfied line guys here. The last "negotiations" were a mere formality. The move for union representation is strong now as under the present situation we virtually have no representation. The need for transparency in negotiations has never been so immediate.

Id suggest that the engagement of a union is being actively discouraged by the JPC because of the effect that a real representitve group will have on Jetstar conditions. As it stands at the moment Id say that AIPA and the JPC are rowing up a long river in the same boat.These are just my opinions though.

There is a push going on right now for a union to take over proceedings. BOTH GROUPS AND THE REGIONALS HAVE BEEN SOLD SHORT BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE!!!!.

[Howard Hughes]

The fact that nobody can see any wrong in a 200K+ a year pilot asking a deathtrap flying 35K a year pilot to not join Jet* ( and not be laughing their t!ts off ) raises some serious questions about the physcological well being of some posters on this forum.
Love it...:D :ok:

[bushy]

If he is flying a deathtrap he is irresponsible, and should not be in the industry at all. He will probably not get the opportunity to fly for major airlines if his character is such that he consents to fly a "deathtrap".

[longjohn]

Well said that man.

Since 89' AIPA have been THE prominent pilots association in Australia. Even at it's zenith, the Ansett Pilots Association only had some 720 odd members, versus AIPA's 2000 odd at that time.

Yet despite it's strength AIPA has never taken any more than a passing interest in events outside of those effecting Qantas pilots directly.

In the meantime, their employer has establised Jet operations in:

Airlink
Jet Connect
Jetstar Asia
Jetstar Australia
and Express Freighters Australia

Meanwhile, in the industry Southern Australia pilots were led out and shot
Eastern pilots continue to fester and that just in the Qantas group.

When are AIPA going to wake up and realise that what happens in the GA and regionals does have an impact on them. Even the collapse of Ansett has to some extent had a negative impact on AIPA members by providing experienced pilots to assist in establishing Jetstar / Jetstar Asia and Jetconnect.

Whilst I do not think the answer lies with 200k pilots telling GA drivers what jobs they can take, maybe AIPA should adopt a 'paternal' role in helping to establish standards in GA / regionals etc.

At the end of the day, if a regional Captain were earning $110k plus in a Dash 8, would he take a $30k drop to join Jetstar?

[hotnhigh]

LJ, How long has AIPA been asking for a 'grouplist and group opportunity?'
What is the plan when GD says get stuffed? Your shot at AIPA is off the mark.
Heaven forbid another group of true foreigners undercutting the Jetstar blokes JPC style.
Anyone speak Afrikaans????????????
The future is bright, the future is orange.

[CaptCloudbuster]

Jet* International will fail in Japan no doubt about it, I know people there and the general public doesnt have a clue who they are. Its all about brand recognition


I heard the other day to overcome this problem in Japan 1* will be marketed as QANTAS/JETSTAR... a$%^holes:yuk:

[airbusthreetwenty]

I heard the other day to overcome this problem in Japan 1* will be marketed as QANTAS/JETSTAR... a$%^holes:yuk:

Well I actually hear that the tickets sold in Japan will be marketed under the Jetstar brand. I also hear that any tickets paid for in Japanese Yen will be all inclusive. So the Japanese punters will get their meal and they'll get their comfort pack.

So don't be so sure that JQ will fail in Japan. I'm sure JQ realise that Japan will be a tough market and I know they've taken appropriate steps to make sure it won't fail.

:hmm:

[Mr Seatback 2]

Didn't they try that with Australian? Free food, drinks, 'Qantas Group' titles on the side, all inclusive pricing...

[B A Lert]

....Well I actually hear that the tickets sold in Japan will be marketed under the Jetstar brand. I also hear that any tickets paid for in Japanese Yen will be all inclusive. So the Japanese punters will get their meal and they'll get their comfort pack......

Are you for real? What ding-a-ling thought up this passenger differentiation? How in hell will the Cabin Crew determine who bought his or her ticket in Japan and who bought them elsewhere? Or will 1*provide the extras FOC to anyone who remotely looks Japanese' ignoring caucasions and other ethnic punters???

The more one sees and hears about this outfit, the sillier it looks.:yuk: :yuk:

[QUOTE]Didn't they try that with Australian? Free food, drinks, 'Qantas Group' titles on the side, all inclusive pricing...]QUOTE]

Yes.

[airbusthreetwenty]

Are you for real? What ding-a-ling thought up this passenger differentiation? How in hell will the Cabin Crew determine who bought his or her ticket in Japan and who bought them elsewhere? Or will 1*provide the extras FOC to anyone who remotely looks Japanese' ignoring caucasions and other ethnic punters???

The more one sees and hears about this outfit, the sillier it looks.:yuk:

SSR codes & a flight manifest I would imagine.

[Sonny Hammond]

SSR code? Transponder? huh?

[airbusthreetwenty]

Special Service Request codes.

[Going Boeing]

Some of you have misinterpreted the intent of my previous post. I do not want GA pilots to help prop up QF T & C's - I want everybody to help maintain Pilot Industry Terms & Conditions. There are going to be a huge number of jobs in this region in the future so this is the right time to make a stand against the race to the bottom. If a person accepts a position with Jetstar now he is accepting these low T & C's and as we know, the majority of pilots stay with the first airline that offer them employment so in fact they are accepting a poor lifestyle for the rest of their career. By rejecting Jetstar, you still stand an excellent chance of employment with a major airline in the near future on terms and conditions that will give a lot more enjoyment throughout your working life.

The attitude of the Joyce and Dixon is that they do not want any cross contamination between QF mainline pilots and Jetstar pilots, so, if you accept a job with Jetstar, QF pilot recruiting will then never offer you a position with mainline (management would have issued directions that ensure QF does not undermine Jetstar pilot recruitment). The only way you would be able to "upgrade" would be to go to Virgin or an overseas airline.

I'm also strongly opposed to the concept of pilots having to pay for their endorsement. With the shortage of pilots about to hit it's time to say at the interviews that if the airline wants your skills then you require the ailine to fund your endorsement. If enough applicants do this then the airlines will have to change their position. ie It's time for pilots to band together and tell the airlines what T & C's we will work under. :ugh:

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Have the J* guys and gals considered who they will turn to if, god-forbid, they need to carry out an evacuation in Japan and accidentally kill someone?

The JPC, with no IFALPA affiliation is not going to be a lot of help. The JPC, with zero experience in these sorts of matters, is not going to be a lot of help getting the pilots out the jail where they will most certainly be put.

Whatever you may think of AIPA, there is a wealth of experience in those sorts of matters there ready to be tapped for its members. Something to think about.

[airbusthreetwenty]

Have the J* guys and gals considered who they will turn to if, god-forbid, they need to carry out an evacuation in Japan and accidentally kill someone?

The JPC, with no IFALPA affiliation is not going to be a lot of help. The JPC, with zero experience in these sorts of matters, is not going to be a lot of help getting the pilots out the jail where they will most certainly be put.

Whatever you may think of AIPA, there is a wealth of experience in those sorts of matters there ready to be tapped for its members. Something to think about.

Freehills.

[Baxter Dewall]

Going,

I would not worry about cross contamination mate. In 5 yrs time JQ will be a distant memory. It'll all be QF again, a-la Australian. That was the catalyst my friend
Same paint job
Same uniforms
Just differing(read lower levels) of remuneration

A united pilot group. IN THIS COUNTRY:ugh:

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

THIS THREAD IS TESTAMENT TO THAT. :yuk:

"TELL 'IM HE'S DREAMIN'"

Baxter

[max autobrakes]

A320 you for real mate?
Freehills, the same mob who wrote the WorkChoices Act.
The same mob Qantas use.
Do you honestly think that the company will back you up after you've bent an aeroplane? I would think the company would be looking for a scape goat and probably the only thing you would be getting from Freehills is a summons. That is after you've rotted in a Japanese jail awaiting trial for god knows how long? You think I'm joking well ask ALPA how many expats are presently cooling their heels in the land of the rising sun at present.

[desmotronic]

Any incumbent QF pilots who have done the hard yards in GA are quite entitled to advise current GA pilots on their carreer choices wrt Jetstar or airlines in general. If you are a cadet then shut the f**k up!!!!!!!

[blueloo]

Desmo, have you thought of paying a psychiatrist for the help you clearly need?

Either that, or take some turbo lax, sit on a dunny for a good few hours and have a bit of an internal clensing.

[Tropicalchief]

Can report that Jet* have been receiving a bagging, and QF a backlash, since Jet* Asia took over the CNS-DRW-SIN route. Complaints of being "dumped" onto Jet* Asia without being notified. Pax having to sit bolt upright for six hours with the additional inconvenience of an hour stopover in DRW. Having to pay for drinks/blankets/food/pillows does not sit well with them. Pax paying for the relative comfort of a Qantas flight only to arrive at airport and discover that they are travelling Jet*.

Treated with contempt by airline management when they complain. Check in at CNS airport at Jet*, dom and int, is chaos. I would suggest that the Japanese and Koreans won't cop Jetstar even if they do get preferential treatment i.e. comfort packs. Low cost carriers can be tolerated for 1 or 2 hrs but not for 8. Have seen several very irate American, European and Asian pax after turning up to check in for QF flights only to be shunted down to Jet*. Not very pretty. Airport staff could not give a stuff.

I used to fly quite often CNS-SIN on AO and can report that the fares have not changed.

[rammel]

Also on the SIN-DRW-CNS route, there are a decent ammount of pax who join in SIN who have flown in from Europe and connected with this flight. I can just imagine what they are thinking by the time they get to CNS.