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Little Dog
2nd Nov 2006, 01:05
My company wants me to fly their plane that now runs on ethanol to other Ethanol Plants around the country... Is it a safe thing to do? No FBO I know of has 200 proof at their pumps!

barit1
2nd Nov 2006, 11:38
My company wants me to fly their plane that now runs on ethanol to other Ethanol Plants around the country... Is it a safe thing to do? No FBO I know of has 200 proof at their pumps!

Basically - do your homework. Is their flight planning realistic? As them what is their logistics network like - where are fuel stops located? If you have to make an unscheduled stop, what is their Plan B?

Ask to see the certification paperwork for the aircraft and engine. What limitations apply to ethanol operations?

It could be reasonably safe (nothing is perfectly safe!) if the planning is well done. Good luck!

equinox145
2nd Nov 2006, 12:12
You don't say what kind of aircraft or more importantly what kind of engine. Assuming that the aircraft engine will run, or has been modified to run on ethanol, the biggest problem you face is in flight planning. Ethanol has a lower specific energy (Joules / Kg) than petroleum fuels. This means fuel consumption will be higher. You will need to carry more and carry more again to carry the extra weight. Maximum range will be about half to three quarters the equivalent petroleum fueled aircraft. Other problems are that ethanol is more corrosive to aircraft systems than petroleum, freezes at a higher temperature and can cause vapour lock at lower temperatures. Increased volatile organic compounds help destroy the ozone layer and avoid inhaling the exhaust at idle power, higher organic acids and aldehydes.

chornedsnorkack
2nd Nov 2006, 12:20
Other problems are that ethanol is more corrosive to aircraft systems than petroleum, freezes at a higher temperature and can cause vapour lock at lower temperatures.

The freezing point of ethanol is -114 Celsius. Is this really an issue?

Of course, unlike petroleum, ethanol is a single compound. It behaves differently on freezing and boiling - no lower BP components.

equinox145
2nd Nov 2006, 13:47
Apologies. It is not the ethanol that freezes. Ethanol absorbs water vapour readily, far more than petroleum fuels. At any sub-zero temperature there would be more ice crystals forming in ethanol. In sufficient quantities these ice crystals will block fuel filters.

Bolty McBolt
2nd Nov 2006, 14:47
I dont know much about alcohol ops but i do know the stoicametric ratio in a piston alcohol fuel engine you are looking at a ratio of 6 - 1 which is about double the consumption of avaition gasolene at 12 - 1 cruise (as equinox points out).
Good luck. I hope you have large tanks with fuel to burn...

With the issues around fuel icing that others have pointed out

Good Luck:ok:

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU
2nd Nov 2006, 15:59
An additional consideration is the energy density. AVGAS 100 is around 34 Mj/Ltr and Ethanol around 20 Mj/Ltr.

Brian Abraham
3rd Nov 2006, 03:12
You will quite likely need the OK from the FAA (your profile says USA) as ethanol can be quite destuctive to engine componentry. Brazil has done some work in this area. See,
http://www.news24.com/News24/Technology/News/0,,2-13-1443_1677017,00.html
For research in the USA see,
http://www.age85.org/gallery.htm
Contact one of the companies mentioned in age85 and get info from the people who know.

jumpuFOKKERjump
3rd Nov 2006, 04:27
I've read a little about the AGE85 project in the US, it sounds like you are involved. Can you give us a bit more information? Other than US insistance on using corn as a base it may be the future and more news would be welcome.

http://www.age85.org/ProjectDescription.htm

http://jumpufokkerjump.googlepages.com/age85fuelthingie.jpg

They are/have been testing the product in aircraft, so they should be able to answer you concerns about it's compatibility with aircraft systems in general. I expect your safety concerns are more about its practicality with no infrasctucture, like Madame Daimler who bought a tank of petrol from a chemist to get home off the first cross-country car ride. I can see that if you are flying from X to Y there will be situations where you are faced with the choice of diverting to Z (ethanol free) or bending your own standards/regulations to get to Y and your next tank of motion lotion. How safe that is is entirely up to you:)

angelorange
3rd Nov 2006, 08:18
Wonder when we will see a bio diesel powered Diamond DA40 or Twinstar? A 5 % blend should be fine but anything more will probably need a fuel heater. In any case the results should provide better fuel consumption than 100LL and Ethanol blends.

barit1
24th Nov 2006, 19:31
An interesting treatise on ethanol production (http://www.cei.org/pdf/5532.pdf).

angelorange
25th Nov 2006, 15:24
Nice one barit1. Yes there are issues with corn prices and ethanol. What will become of cornflakes if the USA moves to ethanol for it's cars and light a/c?

Far better to wait for Branson's lot to produce synthetic ethanol (uses almost any waste so not crop dependant) or grow elephant grass or Jatropha which can actually improve food harvests whilst making bio diesel.

eg:

The Vanilla Jatropha project undertaken through the Kenya Small Project Facility provides an example of the sustainable development benefits that can result from a small-scale CDM project that has generated interest from buyers. Local farmers will cultivate jatropha trees whose seeds will be harvested for expelling oil that will be used for production of jatropha oil. The raw jatropha oil will go through a transesterification process to produce bio-diesel and glycerol. The jatropha oil will replace the use of kerosene for lighting and cooking, and the bio-diesel will provide an alternative fuel for combustion engines such as generator sets. By-products include seed cakes that can be used as organic manure and glycerol that can be used to produce soap. Benefits to local families and farmers include both financial savings and income-generating opportunities, improved health benefits from using a clean fuel, and the additional benefit of organic fertilizer and glycerol production.

see also: http://www.aegis.com/news/PR/2006/PR060918.html

barit1
25th Nov 2006, 17:35
I have heard it alleged that if the farmer gave away his corn crop to the cereal mill, the price of the cornflakes box on the shelf might drop by one cent. The price supports create much oversupply of the ag product corn, good to eat, but inefficient for ethanol manufacture.