BELFAST - 2 [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

BHDflyer

2nd Nov 2006, 21:22

Is the expansion going to compete directly with the likes of Jet 2 to finish them off at BFS! Are will Easy open up new european markets?

Heard also BRS and NCL frequencies are to be increased after the demise of Flybe-although these may be operated by BRS/NCL crews?

Alright I got the 'Bristol' part of it but is Flybe's Newcastle to go aswell?
I was at BFS a couple of weeks ago I'm tellin you easyjet on that place now, infact sometimes the bright orange blinds me! Soon there'll probably be no room at BFS to expand, so does this mean planes parking on top of each other? (!)

Of the topic a bit, but does anyone know how BA are lasting with no more Belfast night stop/early morning MAN flight? Have seen the odd Embraer in BHD recently and I think if BA changed the route to this aircraft it could save the route. The Embraer is a jet aircraft and is faster than the Dash-8. Back in the day when BA were at BFS the MAN was nearly always Embrarer 145 operated and passengers preffered it to the ATP on BHD-MAN because the ATP was louder and was not as fast as the Embraer. So seeing the situation nowadays, BA Connect could consider this. There is way more Embraers in the fleet, and funnily enough most of them are based in MAN.

BHDflyer

True Blue

2nd Nov 2006, 21:37

True Blue

3rd Nov 2006, 09:35

Will today's announcement the Bacon is to be sold to Flybe mark the end of all BA services to Belfast??

True Blue

BHDflyer

3rd Nov 2006, 10:32

True Blue

I think so:{

BFS/BHD

3rd Nov 2006, 16:20

Saw this morning's early arrival from Gla to Bhd was combined with the later flight around 1.00pm. Seems to be happening on a regular basis at Bhd as I've noticed this before. Is it because of low pax loads, lack of crew or lack of aircraft? Perhaps those who only see those things positive at Bhd could tell us!!
True Blue
I don't think its the fact they have low pax numbers, just the fact that the Q400s are going tech, and so combine two flights together while the other is still on the ground.
I don't think either that Flybe will be pulling the NCL flight as they have just made it 2x on weekdays, not sure on weekends.
And as for new routes by EZY i'll hazard a guess at: Copenhagen, Madrid, Cologne, Valencia and Budapest :) .

True Blue

3rd Nov 2006, 23:25

I don't think either that Flybe will be pulling the NCL flight as they have just made it 2x on weekdays, not sure on weekends. :) .

According to the their web site, there is only 1 flight per day Bhd - Ncl available for booking. It won't be long before they are out of Ncl and Lba just like Brs. More rubbish quotes from flybe in the Belfast Tele tonight, the takeover of bacon gives them the opportunity to consider large increases in frequencies on routes, like Bhd - Man, up to about 10 a day. What they don't say is that 10 a day is about the current frequency between Flybe and Ba. More of the same rubbish that they used to spout about their position on the Ncl - bhd route, major player and all that. A quick check tonight on prices to Galway and doncaster tells me that you will see them go the same way as Nwi and Lpl. Is'nt it great to be so selective with the facts. I think Flybe, more than any other, is always trying to put this great spin on their news to make it seem much better than it really is.

True Blue

True Blue

3rd Nov 2006, 23:28

no actually,Krakow plus 5.

Former gk

These new routes, will any of them have more than 1 flight per day or are they all say 3 - 5 times a week?

True Blue

stevNI

5th Nov 2006, 16:38

Is there any more news on new transatlantic routes for bfs? Hope to see delta flying to Atlanta or JFK, Do you think either would harm continental's BFS-EWR service? Hope to see this service increased to 10 times weekly as it seems popular!
It is about time Belfast started to get new transatlantic routes and I think that there is demand for more.

Im also glad to see the huge expansion at BFS with Jet2, wizz air and easyjet (are they ever going to announce these new routes?). The new routes should preform well, especially those to Eastern Europe.

richardnei

6th Nov 2006, 21:21

I believe CO are looking at introducing a 767 next Summer on the BFS-EWR route. Most flights seem to have been full during this Summer, so a larger A/C would more suitable than extra rotations.

Richard

Confirmed Must Ride

7th Nov 2006, 05:49

richardnei

I doubt this very much...there will be quite a few stations ahead of the queue for a 767. Not enough to go round until the 787 comes online in 2008.

Kestrel_909

7th Nov 2006, 14:43

I'd have thought 8-10x weekly would be more likely than introducing the 767, like Edinburgh.

OltonPete

7th Nov 2006, 17:51

The 762 would only get you some extra cargo space and a few more
business seats and the 764.......well no chance, as I would expect
Manchester would be near the top of the list if there are any available.

Also you do not want the same as what happened at BHX when it went double daily - went from reasonably profitable to one of CO's top ten Int. loss making routes per some info posted on another forum.

Alright you can't believe everything you read but it was a pretty
convincing post and from a reliable source, if not a little naughty.
I notice that they didn't post the top ten most profitable Int routes;)

Perhaps 10 a week, it certainly got the pax and out performed BHX-EWR numbers wise during some months in spring.

Peter

the former gk

7th Nov 2006, 23:56

Danmadole

8th Nov 2006, 15:54

Portugalia is a definate from May 2007 to Lisbon and Oporto on the EMB145.

Former GK..... Interesting if true. Surely Orange Airlines cant embargo an elaboration on your sources on this one :hmm: ! I assume you refer to BFS?
Perhaps BHD would be more appealing for a 145 operation? On the off-chance they upgraded to a Fokker 100 it would still be OK for BHD.

As far as EZY go, BOH and MXP would be no surprise.... no prizes there.
Still not convinced about these "five routes".....

chec tunset

9th Nov 2006, 09:16

my local orange contact is also confused by these supposed 5 new routes as the base was recently briefed by the big boss to expect little in the next 12 months. That would only leave scope for a possible MAD or MXP using airbuses originating from those bases.

True Blue

9th Nov 2006, 11:03

chec tunset

Well how does that square with the press release issued under the name of Paul Cable on 29 Sept, when they announced the Krakow route? He also said Easy where looking forward to announcing more routes and higher frequencies in the coming weeks. Read the statement on the Bfs site.

True Blue

chec tunset

9th Nov 2006, 11:55

The implication was that little of this has anything to do with the BFS based crews ie any expansion would be using machinery running in from other bases. The irony here is that Easyjet don't like doing that. Up until now W patterns have been frowned upon. I believe BFS does a W through STN. Perhaps that will be scrapped to make way for the Krakow. As its unlikely that Krakow will be running 7 days a week that may leave leave scope for increasing a frequency or 2.

BHDflyer

9th Nov 2006, 19:03

Now Now boys I cant give away my sources but the routes are a comin,believe me.From what I have heard Boh and Mxp are defos and Lgw could go to 8 per day.Portugalia is a definate from May 2007 to Lisbon and Oporto on the EMB145.

If ezy make the slightest increase on bfs-lgw then flybe are bound to go. before easyjet started lgw from bfs flybe had the route to themselves from bhd with around 6 or 7 flights on a weekday. when easyjet started with 3 flights on a weekday out of bfs, flybe axed 3 out of there 7 flights and to this day still have 4 out of bhd. a thing to notice as well, is that flybe were a bit too kind and basically stopped 3 of their flights .The flights they axed(I think it was the 0840, 1550, 1925 bhd-lgw rotations that went), were exactly the same flight timings that easyjet were about to start from bfs! It was as if flybe were actually going to LET them have rotations that they once flew.so all I can say to flybe is you try to help people and thats the thanks you get.:uhoh:

eastern wiseguy

10th Nov 2006, 04:14

all I can say to flybe is you try to help people and thats the thanks you get.

What a bizarre post....try to help??? Would that be the same assistance that Jersey/British European/Flybe were offering when they moved their Stansted up to BFS ...killed off Air Belfast(remember them?) and then moved BACK to the Harbour?,only to roll over and die the second Easy and Go appeared on the route?.The idea that they have some sort of "gentlemans agreement" is laughable...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

BHDflyer

10th Nov 2006, 17:34

eastern wiseguy

Alright maybe its not true then, just seemed a bit of a coincedence that ezy started flights at times which flybe once operated. Yea I do remember Air Belfast 1-11s to STN , they were bankrupt in 1996 weren't they? And then JY took all the 1-11s (previously owned by Air Belfast), returned to BHD only to be stuffed by GO. Brings me back! Anyway out with history, I think the FLYBE will FLYAWAY on BHD-LGW if ezy expand on the route:suspect:

True Blue

10th Nov 2006, 21:12

BHDflyer

Tough for Flybe! I remember Air belfast well, used them a lot and also Flybe taking action to put them off the route. Live by the sword, die by the sword comes to mind!

Can't help but think and it is my personal opinion, have Flybe bitten off too much with this purchase of bacon? I think it will be very difficult to merge 2 very different cultures. It isn't the first time where a purchase like this has ruined the whole operation.

Also, does it not put Bhd in a difficult position, I bet 90%+ of their income now will come from Flybe. In any business, that situstion is not good.

True Blue

ALLMCC

11th Nov 2006, 10:20

True Blue

And does not 90%+ of BFS's income come from Easyjet? Is that situation any better?

AbeamPoints

11th Nov 2006, 11:40

BFS has many income streams of which EZY comprises no more than 30%. As the City airport is destined to remain a small runway/limited operating hours marginal airport then BFS has nothing to worry about business wise.

The 10 minute difference in driving times between (say) City Hall and the BHD or BFS check in desks is not enough to turn BHD's handicaps into an advantage.

AP

cesare.caldi

11th Nov 2006, 15:24

From April on the Milan-Belfast route start Jet2 with BGY-BFS 4x week. Now Easyjet seems would start MXP-BFS maybe daily.

There is enough space for two LCC on this thin route?

eastern wiseguy

11th Nov 2006, 23:06

cesare.caldi

In all honesty I would be amazed at it supporting ONE!:hmm:

True Blue

11th Nov 2006, 23:15

True Blue

And does not 90%+ of BFS's income come from Easyjet? Is that situation any better?

Well, with a decent % of movements from Baby, Jet2 expanding, a good spread of charter business and other operators like Wizz, Glopespan and others coming on board, my take on it would be that the easy % is falling. But I have no knowledge of any sort, just an educated opinion.

Just a laymans view, butif the bacon merger happens, Bhd will have Flybe and BD as any major sources of income. 4 smaller operators form the remainder of income from ops. The Easy % is falling, I think, the Flybe % isn't. What do you think?

Bell Rhyni

12th Nov 2006, 11:47

Does BFS not also handle a fair amount of freight?

johnrizzo2000

12th Nov 2006, 12:45

Re 767 at BFS!

Manchester and Dublin are first in line for a 767. But thats conditional on them not opening a new route that is dependent on the range of a 767! As much as BFS has great loads, it is only starting to make money. 10 weekly 757 may happen!

Kestrel_909

12th Nov 2006, 16:02

Does BFS not also handle a fair amount of freight?

Yep, not sure of the exact figures but it was around 50,000tonnes in 2004.
TNT, DHL, Jet2, UPS, Air Contractors, Titan, Atlantic...

ALLMCC,
90% is a bit of an over-exaggeration. Don't forget Jet2 and bmiBaby's daily services, thrown along with the extensive summer charters, trans-Atlantic scheduled services, freight... and Flybe diversions.

eastern wiseguy

12th Nov 2006, 16:14

and Flybe diversions

cruel young Kestrel ...cruel:D :D :D

Belboy

14th Nov 2006, 16:34

Flybe reported in Belfast Telegraph to be requesting that the soon to be released EIP results must include an extension of one hour if they are to expand their operations out of City. This would reduce the number of diversions to BFS, but how likely is it to happen?

eastern wiseguy

14th Nov 2006, 17:07

would surely could...unless they also have the wind switched off for them as well!!:E

jollypilot

16th Nov 2006, 17:56

No, 'would' is correct.

The vast majority of flybe movements at BFS are not technically diversions at all - they are re - routed flights duue to the restrictive opening hours at BHD.

Very very few (i can only think of one or two in the last few years) of flybe's diversions to BFS are due the wind. Every now and again CATII approaches are flown (BHD only CatI) and I know of one which had a hydraulic pump fail and went to BFS for the extra runway length.

Jollypilot

True Blue

16th Nov 2006, 21:03

The vast majority of flybe movements at BFS are not technically diversions at all - they are re - routed flights duue to the restrictive opening hours at BHD.

Jollypilot

What restrictive opening hours are these?

Perhaps these are the hours that allow arrivals on a regular basis into Bhd at up to 23.30hrs as seen on ceefax P457 quite often? The restrictions would only be a problem if they were enforced, which they haven't been for a long time, if ever. What reasons will then be given for the airport that keeps expanding while pax decline, if after the "restrictions" go, pax numbers don't go up.

See Flybe are promising major expansion at just about every airport in the UK. And they're going to use slots at eg, Fra now used by say services from Man, to launch services from Bhd. Why would you lose a service from say man or bhx into fra or Cdg to launch from Bhd. Surely the earnings potential from one of the majors across the water must be better than Bhd, regardless of whether there is a service from Bfs? This isn't a Bfs vs Bhd point, I just can't see that from the Flybe point of view, this would be an effective use of scarce slots. Will it ever happen?

True Blue

eastern wiseguy

17th Nov 2006, 13:01

Very very few (i can only think of one or two in the last few years) of flybe's diversions to BFS are due the wind. Every now and again CATII approaches are flown (BHD only CatI) and I know of one which had a hydraulic pump fail and went to BFS for the extra runway length.

OK ...the wind was facetious...HOWEVER .the number of diversions arriving around 2300 or later and the number of diversions to BFS due to "problems" with the aircraft over the years I have been at BFS ARE substantial.

Danmadole

27th Nov 2006, 19:22

Most UK new routes opened for booking today. Only see Krakow mentioned under BFS....... another false dawn me thinks.....

:confused: :confused: :confused:

ESCNI

27th Nov 2006, 19:24

No signs of the five extra routes.

:(

Belboy

28th Nov 2006, 10:02

I don't know about the five new Easy routes from BFS but I see that flybe have announced two new services from the City. Rennes and Newquay are joining the network and I hear there are at least three more to come in the next few weeks.

ESCNI

28th Nov 2006, 11:58

Oooh......so we've now got two international airports again?

:ooh:

eastern wiseguy

28th Nov 2006, 12:05

Rennes once on a Saturday.........give it a month!!:hmm:

mysecretsmile

29th Nov 2006, 08:08

Good to see Flybe Rennes & Torquay to the schedule from BHD.
Anyone any idea what the 3 other likely routes are going to be ?

- Paris, Brussels, Cardiff, Copenhagen ???

richardnei

29th Nov 2006, 16:12

Hi All!

Just noticed that BMI are doing a BHD/VRN flight next Summer for Falcon Holidays on as Sat.

BRGDS

Richard

ALLMCC

2nd Dec 2006, 11:10

Rennes once on a Saturday.........give it a month!!:hmm:

Another positive comment, as usual - I thought the more routes out of BHD would be the better for you - after all if BHD were not there, would BFS need all the controllers they have now - food for thought!

eastern wiseguy

2nd Dec 2006, 11:17

What a STRANGE COMMENT:hmm: ...thought you didn't read or post here?.As it happens I am NOT going to discuss manning levels in the Belfast TMA with a spotter but welcome back!

ALLMCC

2nd Dec 2006, 11:21

eastern wiseguy

2nd Dec 2006, 11:55

announcement from Manx2 to start ops from BHD is a precursor to pulling out of BFS at or before the end of the winter schedule!

I suppose they will be taking up the space left mysteriously UNOCCUPIED by the much vaunted BMiBaby move......:cool:

cessnarocket

2nd Dec 2006, 17:29

now now kids behave could be a very interesting day at bfs 2 morro gusts to 55kts just came through the fax machine going to enjoy being on the ground looking up rather than up wishing i was down :)

Danmadole

3rd Dec 2006, 16:42

Nice to see a few Shamrock tails on the ramp at BFS today. Could be more of the same tomorrow if the wind continues....:yuk:
8 lingus 320's and a CSA 737 apparently

cessnarocket

3rd Dec 2006, 18:42

A total off 9 shamrocks a320s plus a csa nice to see northern ireland having an airport for a change any 1 got any nice pics off it, was a real sight all lined up around the international peer :) :)

Belboy

5th Dec 2006, 13:48

Press release from flybe today confirming 12 flights per week from Belfast City to Cardiff. bmi recently announced an increase from 1 - 2 daily, passenger are bound to benefit in the short term but what will happen in the medium to long.

the former gk

5th Dec 2006, 18:41

Bmibaby cost base is much cheaper with lead in fares at £13.99 against Flybe at £19.99.In the long term the winner will be whoever has the most cash in the pot ala easyJet/flybe on routes to Bristol,Liverpool and Newcastle.

JobsaGoodun

5th Dec 2006, 19:06

the former gk

Not necessarily.....
It's fair to say that Baby's lead in fare may be lower but this is nothing to do with their 'cost base'. It would be interesting to see just what sort of financial figures Baby is posting but they seem to keep such figures close to thier chest, unlike Flybe.
Whilst it is easy to cite markets such as LPL/BRS and NCL where Flybe competes with Easy and has reduced its flying, there are markets such as LGW, GLA and EDI where Flybe ares undoubtably competing very effectively against the 'orange one'.
Easy has a huge base at LPL and this has helped them keep passengers. With Flybe now operating 5 daily flights ex BHD to MAN daily, and along with the anticipated aquisition of BAConnect, Flybe's aspirations look to be centred on Manchester instead of LPL where I imagine greater yield exists.
The rivalry between BMIBaby and Flybe appears to be hotting up at present. With BMI encroaching on Flybe's patch in BHX with further based aircraft and Flybe building up MAN and now the announcement of BHDCWL, the launch of the full Flybe summer programme could be very interesting.

True Blue

5th Dec 2006, 21:15

I just do not see the point in 2 Lcc's fighting it out on a low pax nos route. Flybe left Brs route, which has about 20k pax per month. Why then move in on Cwl, unless they think they can put Baby off completely. Baby will have to change the very silly summer times that they have at the moment, I think.

True Blue

richardnei

6th Dec 2006, 10:20

Just seen Jet2 have put the BFS/LBA, BFS/BLK routes on sale for Summer07.

BFS/BLK - Operating 2xDaily on weeks days (Early Morning/Early Evening Departures) with 1 rotation on SAT/SUN.

BFS/LBA - Operating 2xDaily with a 3rd flight on Fridays and 2 Evening departures on a Sunday.

BLK route must be doing OK!

Brgds

Richard

fredtheanorak

6th Dec 2006, 11:58

eastern wiseguy

A spotter! - if only you knew how wrong you are!! Oh and by the way, almost forgot - the recent announcement from Manx2 to start ops from BHD is a precursor to pulling out of BFS at or before the end of the winter schedule!

I think yure wrong on this one. Just had a girl going round BLK airport here today with a new leaflet pushing the 4x a day Belfast/IOM/ shuttle and a new second Sunday rotatiun to Aldergrove. The website has flights to BFS available right throu 2007.

the former gk

7th Dec 2006, 17:17

JobsaGoodun,easyJet are operating A319 on your said routes against Flybe Q400,s and are carrying upwards of 80% of slf on lgw/gla/edi routes.The caa stats are there for all to read.With the 2 daily Doncaster/Sheffield services are they going to start running from Jet2 as well ala lba.

richardnei

12th Dec 2006, 17:49

All details below:

Delayed night flights facing £800 penalties
Email Article
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Tuesday, December 12, 2006

An independent panel has recommended that a community charge of up to £800 a time be levied on flights breaching the night-time curfew at George Best Belfast City Airport.

The proposal was made in the report of a panel which convened an Examination in Public in June, details of which were published today by the Planning Service.

The key recommendations are:

Night-time curfew from 9.30pm to 6.30am to remain in force, but a community fund be set up to penalise delayed flights.
Cap on seats on offer per annum to be raised from 1.5 million to two million (inbound and outbound).
Restriction on aircraft movements to 45,000 in any 12-month period to remain unchanged.
Brian Ambrose, chief executive of City Airport, said they welcomed the findings of the panel, which were consistent with the Government White Paper of 2003.

"The findings provide a sound basis for moving towards a new planning agreement," he said.

"The challenge facing airports throughout the world is to manage the increased demand for air travel in an environmentally sensitive manner."

Environment Minister David Cairns said his officials would open discussions with the airport management following publication of the report.

No chance of a late BMI flight anymore!

brgds

richard

True Blue

15th Dec 2006, 23:06

See from the Caa stats just posted that Bfs seems to have handled just over 5m pax in the rolling 12 months to Nov 06. I believe that this is the first time that Bfs has exceeded that total. Bhd, small decline again.

Where has all this talk with easy about new routes and increased frequencies went to?

True Blue

eastern wiseguy

16th Dec 2006, 09:27

I rmember years ago the (then) owners suggested we could have a new tower when we broke 5 million pax.......not holding my breath:p

omoko joe

16th Dec 2006, 10:42

a little orange birdie told me that easy's supposed abundance of new routes was a knee-jerk reaction to Jet2 treading on their patch. I don't think they new what routes they were talking about themselves and nothing has been sanctioned by LTN (yet).

Danmadole

16th Dec 2006, 17:34

BNW seem to have thrown in the towel on the BHD route. That leaves Manx2 and Euromanx to battle it out.

EI-BUD

20th Dec 2006, 03:42

I think the comment that Easyjet announced that 5 new routes were coming is in fact a polite warning to Jet2 to stay off EZY patch at BFS!

It will be interesting to see what goes on in terms of competition on the competing routes to Faro/Ibiza/Malaga. From memory those are the new routes for Jet2.

My wish for Christmas is that AerLingus would start up at Belfast International .A new base is badly needed.??

richardnei

20th Dec 2006, 13:00

From what i've heard all the new Jet2 routes are doing very well for bookings with many flights having over 100 pax booked already for next June/July. Jet2 got the head start as easyjet didn't start selling their routes until a month after jet2 announced the AGP/PMI routes.

Could be fun since Jet2 are operating a 757 on the AGP/PMI routes.

Brgds

Richardnei

johnrizzo2000

20th Dec 2006, 15:07

I would also love to see EI go back to BFS. They had JFK service, but i think they could do well with services to Europe.

Belfast to: Warsaw, Riga, Madrid, Barcelona, Milan, Budapest, Hamburg/Frankfurt or Munich, and possibly a few more!

I think EI offers great fares, and good service. Most of those routes could also be operated in a W pattern from Cork or Dublin, so not many crew or a/c would need to be based at BFS!!!!!:O

COME ON AER LINGUS, COME BACK TO BELFAST!!!!:O :O :O

Wee Weasley Welshman

20th Dec 2006, 16:29

en2r

20th Dec 2006, 17:05

Right - so let me get this straight. Aer Lingus at Dublin who have to compete with Ryanair should open a new base up the road where they would have to compete with easyJet... is that just sadism or is that actually what you think wuould be a good plan?

Aer Lingus would have no problem competing with Easyjet on fares. Easyjet have much higher fares than Ryanair. One of the reasons Easyjet failed on Gatwick-Cork was because their fares rivalled Aer Lingus, not Ryanair, without the added benefit of Heathrow. Aer Lingus have a headline fare for their UK routes of €1 plus taxes. When are Easyjet fares ever that low? Also if EI did return to Belfast, it would probably be from Belfast City (where they operated previously), and not Aldergrove, where Easyjet operate from.

CCR

20th Dec 2006, 17:10

Think it would make sense for Aer Lingus to launch more services out of airports where Ryanair are not a major player such as Cork & Belfast.

johnrizzo2000

20th Dec 2006, 18:32

There are plenty of routes out of Belfast that EI could serve, that wont compete directly with EZY or Jet2

eastern wiseguy

20th Dec 2006, 20:25

if EI did return to Belfast, it would probably be from Belfast City (where they operated previously),

I have worked in ATC since 1978 and for a local Belfast travel agency before that and I have NEVER heard of Shamrock operating out of anywhere other than BFS. :confused: :confused: :confused:

johnrizzo2000

20th Dec 2006, 20:50

Somehow, I dont think EI operated an A330/MD-11 from BHD to SNN to JFK! It was BFS

en2r

20th Dec 2006, 21:06

I have worked in ATC since 1978 and for a local Belfast travel agency before that and I have NEVER heard of Shamrock operating out of anywhere other than BFS. :confused: :confused: :confused:
Oh sorry my mistake, I mixed up the airports

BHDflyer

20th Dec 2006, 21:34

If there is continuing evidence to show that bmi loose yet more money on the BHD-LHR then I think EI should give the flights a go. If bmi do give up, and BA won't come back, then there isn't really anyone else who would operate it apart from EI. However if the caa stats show decreasing pax numbers before bmi ditched the A321s then that could be another reason why the route lost out, as the route (only up until recently) was entirely A321 operated. bmi may be secretely binning the 321s because the aircraft weren't being filled, and they saw the sense that an A320/319 would better suit the flights. So say if only about 120 of the 195 seats on an A321 were being filled all the time, then a slightly smaller aircraft is the answer. But then again maybe I'm wrong and the stats were produced after bmi got rid of most of the 321s but who's to say really:confused:

Wee Weasley Welshman

21st Dec 2006, 05:14

BFS - LHR used to work. These days though EZY offer daily 4 rtn flights to Gatwick, 5 to Luton and 5 to Stansted.

That is 28 sectors a day between BFS and London. About 4250 seats every day. Including a wet Wednesday in February. Morning, mid day, afternoon and evening. With the ability to slip onto the earlier or later flight for £25 if you want. Sitting on either a 5yr old 737-700 or a 2yr old A319 which will have got you in yesterday in the fog with its Cat3 capability at both ends of the route.

I wouldn't waste a pair of valuable LHR slots against that.

Not to mention all the other companies offering connections between N Ireland and the London area.

Sorry,

WWW

EI-BUD

21st Dec 2006, 05:39

I have to agree with Eastern Wiseguy on this one. Aer Lingus highly unlikely to fly to BHD. If they did go to Belfast they would be most likely to prefer BFS. For many reasons. One being they could if they wished land an A330 if they needed to add capacity ? I dont think the BHD facility could handle this aircraft or am I mistaken??

Aer Lingus have many aces to play with a service from Belfast. The possibility of interlining at other airports gives passengers a choice of destination all on one ticket via interline arrangement that EI have drawn up with many big airlines.

In addition Aer Lingus while appearing cheap than the competition, often charge more than some competitors. Eg I fly bmi LHR DUB advertised fare of EUR5 v EUR1 for EI , bmi ticket net price usually ends up few quid cheaper! So Aer Lingus can certainly give out the notion of low prices which gets people moving!!!!

Maybe the disappearance of BA brand from NI will mean that EI will see the need for a network carrier at BFS. bmi are supposed to be making arrangements with BA for interline on BHD LHR. Surely BA would prefer EI ???

What does anyone think ??? Maybe SUmmer 2007 ?

johnrizzo2000

21st Dec 2006, 16:05

EI operating BFS to LHR would be ideal for both EI and BA!!!! BA to doesnt have to operate the route, but gets all the connecting PAX. At the same time, hopefully it will make EI money and build EI's brand awareness (particullarly in the business market). Then, EI can go ahead and build its presence at BFS!

Wee Weasley Welshman

21st Dec 2006, 18:24

Lingus pulled out of the One World alliance I thought.

The fact is there are already nearly 5000 scheduled seats everyday from BFS to LON. Yes some might prefer LHR but most would not. I think they would be far far better off deciding if they want to be a low cost, long haul, full service or no frills airline, rationalise their fleet accordingly and then equip themselves with a more suitable structure for the next 20 years.

Flying scheduled services to the London area is a battle long ago lost to EZY and Ryan.

They are effectively a niche operator that survives by virtue of LHR slots and North Atlantic restrictive practices.

Cheers

WWW

EI-BUD

22nd Dec 2006, 04:48

[quote=Wee Weasley Welshman;3031955]Lingus pulled out of the One World alliance I thought.

Wee Weasley Welshman, Aer Lingus are coming out of the OneWorld Alliance early next year, But they have agreed to a series of Interline agreements with its choice airlines, ones that suit its network. This arrangement will include more airlines than they had through the OneWorld Alliance.

I believe a route to Heathrow from Belfast BFS would provide a good connection point throught these interline facilities. The Catchment area around Heathrow is incredible when compared to the other London airports.I dont believe that most WOULD NOT prefer HEATHROW. Take Dublin London Market in 2005 as an example,

Total Passenger : 4,364,284
Heathrow total : 2,089,220

48% of passenger choose Heathrow and many more I believe would have except the low fares and widespread availablitity of same on Ryanair persuaded many to use STN, LGW & LTN. I know quite a few who would prefer LHR but find it hard to shy away from the FR prices. and I know EI & BD have low prices but not nearly as widespread as FR.

So to respond to your comment that most would not choose LHR , I disagree, given a choice I would see very little difference DUB & Belfast in terms of which London airport is served.

I do agree with you strongly, that Belfast is very well served from London particularly by Easyjet. Curiousity got me there and I check CAA to see how AirBerlin is doing on BHDSTN . They carried a total of 8462 passengers on the route in October 2006, And the Easyjet BFSSTN route is nearly the same as same period last year so they havent adversely affected Easyjet in the Stansted to Belfast Market. I would love to know what % of Air Berlins passengers are travelling on to Germany ???? Do you know anything about this ??? Unless AB are using a F100 on all flights, I would say that 8462 (daily avg each way 136) is not too hot ??? Do you know if the Airbus or the Fokker is doing most of the flights I know it has been both ?

I would also like to say that I am not fully in agreement with your comment that AerLingus is simply a niche operator. They have a fairly good Euro network , they have some work to do on the medium to Long haul offering but otherwise they are still the Irish national airline (eventhough FR carrying more Pax from DUB!!!). If Aer Lingus is a niche carrier as you put it well most airlines could be called the same thing....what do you think ??

Wee Weasley Welshman

22nd Dec 2006, 06:49

Lingus is no longer the State National airline - its a business listed on the stock exchange like any other. Take away the LHR slots and the N American special arrangements and you'd destroy most of the value of the airline thus you could describe their business as niche.

I define niche as Within a habitat, a special area with special conditions that supplies a species with factors necessary for its survival. There is nothing at all wrong with that, it can be a stable and profitable thing to be.

You think that a direct connection between BFS and LHR operating twice daily would be a better proposition than a BFS to STN LTN or GWK spread five times daily. Sure for some it would be, particularly leisure travel headed to the West End and Central London. For a lot of people though getting to and from LHR is an expensive nightmare and any time saving is used up in the hold at Bovingdon or by being number 16 for take off.

I'm no analyst but I see Lingus having far more opportunities developing the premium leisure market (everyone has an eleventy million euro house these days) and expending some more money and thinking on the North Atlantic product - those A330's are getting pretty tired these days, for reference go see what product Emirates or Gulf or Virgin are offering on pond hoping; its impressive.

Cheers

WWW

omoko joe

22nd Dec 2006, 10:52

I have never understood the fuss about LHR. Its an old, dated overcrowded mess and a mare to get to in a car. The LHR express has improved the tedium of getting to central london but given the choice I'd take LGW any day. As for EI doing it, well if BMI pulled off the route then fair enough as they'd inherit a proven market which they could possibly develop.
Last time i flew with airberlin BHD-STN it was only half full (B737-700). Their service is vastly superior to that of Easy and Ryan but they havn't exploited it. Despite using the same equipment as Easy, their aircraft have a more spacious, pleasant feel to them. Easy's 73's may be only a few years old but they appear wrecked on the inside and out.
I think the coming year will have some problems for Easy's BFS base as they have so far failed to respond to direct competetion launched at them by Jet2. They could do with a revamp in NI in the form of an Airbus makover and actually launching some new routes instead of just talking about them. With other low cost operators joining the fray in BFS in 2007 the heat will intensify.

True Blue

22nd Dec 2006, 11:11

In Easy's last press statement, they referred to new routes and increased flights on existing routes. Well the new routes seems to have gone nowhere, what existing routes have had increased frequencies? Has all the flights to Lgw and Stn gone on sale yet for the summer?

True Blue

BHDflyer

22nd Dec 2006, 21:38

See that the ten past nine night time arrival from Heathrow tonight will now land at half eleven. What a joke! When does the city airport close? Will someone remind me?

True Blue

22nd Dec 2006, 23:22

That's not fair. These are the very prescriptive rules that are causing bhd to see a decline in pax numbers this year. You know, 9.30pm becomes any time!

Heard an interview on Radio Ulster yesterday morning, gent from Bhd, talking about the annual increase in pax nos at Bhd, around 5%pa. They must have different figures to those published on the Caa web site.

true blue

EI-BUD

23rd Dec 2006, 03:57

Dear WWW,

I didnt say that Aer Lingus was the State National Airline. I said it was the National Airline. What I mean by this is that Aer Lingus is the Flag Carrier for Ireland, just as BA is for Britain. I am aware that EI is listed on the SE , but this has nothing to do with its status as the National Airline.

You are probably aware from my last response to you that I was mainly replying to your comment that Most Would NOT prefer LHR over the Other. On that note you may also note that I gave DUB as an example as to the preferrd choice of London Airport. I pointed out that if all things being equal (ie frequency and Price) Passenger would choose LHR.

I also didnt imply that a twice daily link between BFS and LHR would be better than the current choice and freq to STN LGW & LTN.

Have a nice Christmas WWW, i wasnt having a go at you.

I read in further threads someone said what is all the fuss about a LHR BFS link.Its probably a fair comment . Something tells me this time next year we will still not see it happen .

I mentioned Air Berlin in my last thread. I said that there passenger carrying on STNBHD has not effected Easyets BFSSTN route at all. But I have studied the stats for the last 2 years on London Belfast and its seems that BMI have taken the worst hit since the arrival of AB. Although they were in decline the rate of decline is far greater since last May. In addition, all of Easyjets new routes from BFS have been growing but Berlin route is few hundred passengers behind of last year per month since AB arrived. I find this amazing as it seems that AB is almost immune to competitiors on STN routes inside Britain & NI ? what does anyone think. Is it that passengers are choosing AB over BMI for such good service or are they mostly connecting to Germany via STN ?? Anyone have details ??

virginblue

23rd Dec 2006, 10:17

If bmi pulls out of the BHD-LHR market, it is highly unlikely that anybody would be able to take over the route. Even if Aer Lingus wanted to, there is literally zero chance that they would be able to. How is Aer Lingus supposed to get the slots at LHR needed to operate a high-frequency service out of LHR? There are non available and bmi does not need to surrender them if they simply use them for other services. The potential cost of buying the slots on the grey market the only option - is certainly prohibitive for Aer Lingus.

frequentflyer2

23rd Dec 2006, 13:31

See that the ten past nine night time arrival from Heathrow tonight will now land at half eleven. What a joke! When does the city airport close? Will someone remind me?

And will East Belfast turn to dust? Will houses along the North Down foreshore fall into Belfast Lough? Isn't it about time this ridiculous curfew was relaxed to allow a late return flight from Heathrow and perhaps another couple of arrivals as well. I live in Ballyhackamore - part of East Belfast for anyone who doesn't know the city - and delayed planes do land and take off after 9.30pm. An A320 and a few more Dash 8 400's will not turn the Lower Newtownards and Albertbridge Roads or Holywood (depending which approach is used) into the Hounslow of Northern Ireland. The capacity of BHD would tend to suggest any extension of the deadline will not lead to 777's thundering over every two minutes. Personally, I think the howls of protest which follow any suggestion a few planes should officially be allowed to use the airport after 9.30pm are ridiculous and short sighted in the extreme.

fredtheanorak

23rd Dec 2006, 14:33

BNW seem to have thrown in the towel on the BHD route. That leaves Manx2 and Euromanx to battle it out.

Seems Manx2 are taking the initiatif on BLK and Belfast and having taken BNWA off of BLK are now going 4x daily into BLK, 3x daily into BFS and double daily into BHD.:D This will stuff up seat capacity into Belfast but maybe it tyes in with a deal with EuroManx for them to consentrate on MAN:O EuroManx seem to like these sort of deals, having come to sum arangement with AerArran when they pulled of IOM-LPL:ok:

Wee Weasley Welshman

23rd Dec 2006, 15:26

EI BUD - Merry Christmas to you. I'm not sure a what a National Airline is or whether it exists in either the UK or Ireland any more. Air France would be one as would Alitalia. But BA stopped being one decades ago and I think the same happened to Lingus a few months back. If you are not owned by the State and are not even the biggest airline in the country then you are just another airline. Flag carrier is a phrase that hasn't really meant anything since the 1960's.

I think the current chaos and misery at LHR neatly illustrates why many passengers would prefer to avoid the place. LTN and STN have marched on pretty much regardless of the fog as they are not so capacity restricted. EZY ran a 96% programme yesterday not because their pilots eat more carrots or their aircraft are more advanced.

Lingus entering the BFS to LON market is a singularly difficult thing to do. Their product and branding and history and everything else screams DON'T compete with EZY&Ryan on similar routes. More profit and less heartache elsewhere I suggest. See First Choice airlines for an example on the holiday side of the business.

Cheers

WWW

eastern wiseguy

23rd Dec 2006, 17:02

WWW.. just a thought but will ezy ever start to consider adding some value to their product? I mean that Air Berlin seem to be able to move bags between their services at STN why can't EZY. It would seem to me to make sense(even at a premium)for business travellers and would have the added effect of further cutting the legs out from under the LHR mob:hmm:

bmibaby.com

23rd Dec 2006, 17:24

Remember with the Airbus 321, that not only are they harder to fill in terms of pax numbers, but generally they are more expensive aircraft to operate. They require more cabin crew, more fuel, potentially heavier landing charges etc. compared to an Airbus 319 or 320, so considering the number of pax bmi are now transporting on the route - it makes more sense to operate a smaller aircraft.

stevNI

23rd Dec 2006, 22:21

I think Belfast International Airport has much more potential for transatlantic traffic. With only 1 daily flight to New York and a few weekly services from Zoom and flyglobespan I believe Belfast is still underserved.

You only have to look to Dublin where there are usually 10 transatlantic flights daily! With 6 daily flights to New York, destinations such as Boston, Chicago, Atlanta and LA. I have even heard that Northwest airlines are planning detroit for 2007.

Why such a difference? Belfast is the Second largest city on the Island of Ireland. The population of the Republic of Ireland is 4.2 million and that of Northern Ireland 1.7 million, OK it is understandable that Dublin being the largest city on the island and many US companies situated near by attracts more services but things still don't add up!! The Republic of Ireland has only 2/3 of the population of the island but over 90% of the transatlantic traffic (this is not even including transatlantic flights from Shannon). Why does all the transatlantic traffic and growth seem to go to Dublin and very little to Belfast?

RT_060590

24th Dec 2006, 00:23

Hangover from the troubles probably, which DUB didnt have to contend with, as things have brightened up in recent years we have seen alot of welcome expansion at both Belfast airports, instead of the BA and BD shuttles and the JEA LGW. Glad to see EZY getting a run for their money courtesy of Jet2 but EZY don't seem to be putting much effort into fighting back. Jet2, however, do seem to have an all round nicer product despite having older aircraft. If EI were to come to BFS could they not operate a 3/4 a day service from BFS to LHR rather than a high frequency shuttle as in place now, thus more chance of a full aircraft every flight and reducing the amount of slots needed?

I reckon flights to L.A., Las Vegas, San Francisco, Boston, Chicago, Washington D.C. and Miami could all do well out of BFS, could be wrong though!

NWSRG

24th Dec 2006, 12:12

Think there is definately more scope for international flights from BFS. Now that the roads network is improving between Belfast and Dublin, there is no reason why BFS should not be marketing itself as a direct alternative to DUB. Having travelled through both recently, I have to say that BFS is a much more pleasant experience...whether parking, check-in or boarding, there is simply more space per passenger. Obviously this will change as BFS numbers grow, but Belfast should be selling itself on being a less stressful option...

As for where these flights will be to...it seems as if the daily CO to Newark is doing well enough that CO are considering a second 757...any more word on this? Also DL might be able to put their toe in the water with a 757 to ATL? Many connection options there...wonder what the chances are of us seeing a regular 787 sometime soon?

johnrizzo2000

24th Dec 2006, 12:45

As for where these flights will be to...it seems as if the daily CO to Newark is doing well enough that CO are considering a second 757...any more word on this? Also DL might be able to put their toe in the water with a 757 to ATL? Many connection options there...wonder what the chances are of us seeing a regular 787 sometime soon?[/quote]

If CO is gonna send more 757's across the pond, it'll be to new destinations! BFS hasnt been operating that long, so I would be surprised to see it go 2 daily. Maybe 10 weekly during the summer! Would a 757 make it nonstop from BFS to ATL??????????????

richardnei

24th Dec 2006, 16:07

BFS-ATL should be within range for the 757.

I remember when Air Scandic operated a Finnair 757 BFS-SFB a couple of years back they sold the flights as operating via Gander but and most flights was able to operate wth a full load (228 PAX) non-stop to SFB.

ATL would be about the same distance from BFS.

Richard

RT_060590

24th Dec 2006, 16:18

Would Delta be able to support flights to ATL from both DUB and BFS? CO have done well as people want to go to NYC aswell as connect with the CO network, could this be repeated with ATL? I don't think ATL would be successful as a destination, the majority of people would travel for connections.Would this eat into DUB loads or would it have no effect at all ???
Would be a good way around the SNN stopover though!:}

ESCNI

27th Dec 2006, 21:59

As well as Gordon Brown’s recent hiking of air travel duty (from £10 to £20 per return flight) it now appears that the car parking fees at Belfast International Airport (Aldergrove) are also due for a substantial rise.

For example, in the Main Stay Car Park, the charge for a day's parking will rise (from 1st January) by 13% from £8.40 to £9.50.

For more details, read the recent article...http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article2096025.ece (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article2096025.ece)

:*

stevNI

27th Dec 2006, 22:01

Yea I think BFS should be marketing itself as a direct and much less stressfull alternative to Dublin. Only today the Republic's Tourist Industry confederation said that overcrowing at Dublin airport was a major obstacle to future growth of the tourist industry. Spokesperson Eamon McKeon said “The capacity in Dublin airport is just grossly inadequate to handle the numbers that are going through there presently,”. I think that BFS should capitalise on this fact!

I hope to see soon an inceased frequency on Continental's service to Newark, perhaps 10 per week or double daily. And I read a few months ago that Delta was interested in flying to Belfast. I think a service to Atlanta or JFK would be sucessfull.

True Blue

27th Dec 2006, 22:51

2 questions:
1. Has Easy released all their flights for summer 07 out of Belfast yet, from Mid July, Lgw and Stn show 4 daily weekdays, 5 up to then?
2. Next summer, will Jet2 be a larger operator at Bfs than Baby?

True blue

ALLMCC

29th Dec 2006, 10:47

And will East Belfast turn to dust? Will houses along the North Down foreshore fall into Belfast Lough? Isn't it about time this ridiculous curfew was relaxed to allow a late return flight from Heathrow and perhaps another couple of arrivals as well. I live in Ballyhackamore - part of East Belfast for anyone who doesn't know the city - and delayed planes do land and take off after 9.30pm. An A320 and a few more Dash 8 400's will not turn the Lower Newtownards and Albertbridge Roads or Holywood (depending which approach is used) into the Hounslow of Northern Ireland. The capacity of BHD would tend to suggest any extension of the deadline will not lead to 777's thundering over every two minutes. Personally, I think the howls of protest which follow any suggestion a few planes should officially be allowed to use the airport after 9.30pm are ridiculous and short sighted in the extreme.
At long last a positive post about BHD instead of the usual verbal crap from the BFS supporters club! The recent report from the EIP panel recommends increasing the passenger cap at BHD to 2m passengers annually each way and this will be written in to the revised planning agreement shortly.
The folk at BFS will no doubt be a little unhappy about this particularly when they submitted objections to increasing the passenger at BHD to the EIP panel (a thinly disguised attempt to prevent competition from a neighbouring airport which is distinctly unethical if not illegal) In fact, the General Consumer Council recently commented that, while welcoming the development, the cap should have been removed altogether.

NWSRG

29th Dec 2006, 11:37

The folk at BFS will no doubt be a little unhappy about this particularly when they submitted objections to increasing the passenger at BHD to the EIP panel (a thinly disguised attempt to prevent competition from a neighbouring airport which is distinctly unethical if not illegal).

When it comes to airports, competition should not be the primary driver. Government has a responsibility to provide, or at least encourage the development of, the correct infrastructure. And while I don't necessarily agree, there is an argument that says if NI had only one major airport (with the magic 6 million plus passengers), we would actually have more airlines offering more routes...

As for BHD, there really is no argument for not allowing some additional night flights. I live with a railway line at the bottom of my garden, but no-one consults with me when trains run through the night! ;)

cartmanfly

3rd Jan 2007, 10:29

Easyjet have just poked Jet2 in they eye with the launch of BFS - IBZ for the summer. Great for pax, bad for profit.

richardnei

3rd Jan 2007, 13:17

Could be over-kill on BFS-IBZ route as we already have the following operating IBZ this Summer:

My Travel (1xWeekly)
First Choice (1xWeekly)
Jet2(2xWeekly)
BMI (1xWeekly)
Air Europa (1xWeekly)
Easyjet (1xWeekly)

plus any others to be up on sale. Is there really demand for so many IBZ flights from BFS!

Brgds
Richardnei

Kestrel_909

3rd Jan 2007, 13:49

How many have we had the past two years? I don't recall seeing too many, maybe two each week?

omoko joe

3rd Jan 2007, 17:06

Total waste of time. IBZ has never been a great seat only seller ex BFS. Very disappointing effort from Easyjet. Supposed multiple new rotues from BFS have turned into a half assed once weekly to IBZ. Should've left it to Jet2 if they can't launch a decent response.

eastern wiseguy

3rd Jan 2007, 17:49

the General Consumer Council recently commented that, while welcoming the development, the cap should have been removed altogether.
This was the same council that insisted on the type of open competition we have today(and I believe it should be AIRLINES NOT AIRPORTS which should be in competition) ,and I for one DO agree that we have shot ourselves in the foot by encouraging the developement of two airports less than 12 miles apart. This has to impinge on NIplc's ability to attract airlines to an area which would be attracting circa 7.5 million pax per annum.
I am NOT having a pop at the resident cracked record here just looking at the thing with a dis-passionate eye.
As far as BFS-IBZ is concerned I am afraid I think that that is a waste of time.What sort of revenue is there to be had there ? Surely the type of punter that is attracted to IBZ is the sort of guy who will hang around teletext and try to pick up 7 days flight/hotel included for as little as possible.I agree with OJ ..missed opportunity:rolleyes:

johnrizzo2000

3rd Jan 2007, 19:23

Thats a lot of flights to IBZ!!! I dont think Dublin even has 3 per week during the summer!!!!

EI-BUD

4th Jan 2007, 04:01

If Easyjet were intent on challenging Jet2 on the Belfast Ibiza route, it is surprising that they did not at least match the frequency of Jet2 on the route??

Sanjo

4th Jan 2007, 07:52

it looks like easyjet increased frequency on the rest of their Jet2 head to heads from BFS too.

AGP daily v 4 x week from Jet2
ALC daily v 5 x week from Jet2 to MJV
PMI 6 x week v 4 week from Jet2

a few days ago these were part weeklies...

Wee Weasley Welshman

4th Jan 2007, 09:32

Don't get too hung up about frequencies - think about average ticket price. Not the loss leader 'From' prices on the billboards but what the average person on the average day will be quoted. EZY are mounting a very stiff challenge in this regard.

Cheers

WWW

Kestrel_909

4th Jan 2007, 09:56

Does the increased frequencies mean another aircraft based or more of the other routes operated by non-BFS based aircraft?

cartmanfly

4th Jan 2007, 11:41

No more aircraft. You may see the STN W pattern dropped though to cover some of these. Anything beyond this looks like out of town aircraft unless commercial do some waking up.

ESCNI

4th Jan 2007, 12:04

(from BBC NI)...

Airport parking prices criticised...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6230589.stm

Sanjo

4th Jan 2007, 14:05

No more aircraft. You may see the STN W pattern dropped though to cover some of these. Anything beyond this looks like out of town aircraft unless commercial do some waking up.

so let me figure this out...

one STNBFS rotation dropped every day and then flights to AGP, ALC, PMI flown in the same schedule gap... this either is an extra aircraft in BFS or it must be a record braking flight time to Spain

Kestrel_909

4th Jan 2007, 14:48

Sanjo

I believe a BFS based 737 does BFS-STN-somewhere else-STN-BFS as far as I know, hence the 'W'

True Blue

4th Jan 2007, 20:55

See during the main summer season, Easy have changed the Bfs - Stn times. They have 2 flights ex stn within 35 mins of each other at 15.00hrs approx and the last flight back is at 18.30. How stupid. I suppose this is to facilitate the fight with jet2. Might they not have been better looking at other possible routes rather than this and given NI Plc an ever better choice.

Has all the flights to Lgw been released now?

True blue

True Blue

4th Jan 2007, 21:37

See Goldtrail/Onur Air have increased flights ex Bfs to Dlm & Bjv to 2 weekly and also introduced Antalya for S07. Xl have dropped 3 destinations however.

True Blue

SelectMgt

6th Jan 2007, 05:57

Hi,

Is there any news on the BHD Expansion Plan Working Party type thing that was going on up until July and supposed to report in August?

Never heard what was approved or not approved. Also the "Belfast City Airport Watch" website has gone (for good i think). Does this mean they were defeated and/or gave up?

Any info appreciated

Belboy

11th Jan 2007, 13:13

Why were there several cancellations at the City today. Cork, IOM and Heathrow, was it due to wind in Belfast or elsewhere in the UK? I had been hoping to go to Cork but was unable to. As usual there was little explanation as why the flight was cancelled just that it was.

omoko joe

12th Jan 2007, 17:50

Are Jet2 still planning to operate a 757 out of aldergrove this summer or has that one quietly been put to bed?

cartmanfly

13th Jan 2007, 12:35

I heard it was toast, dumped in favour of another antique 73.

stevNI

17th Jan 2007, 20:06

Can anyone see any new airlines coming to Belfast International in 2007? What is the likleyhood that if so they will be full priced airlines? I would love to see perhaps Lufthansa to Frankfurt to provide connections. I think 2007 will also see a new transatlantic carrier in BFS.
It is going to be a very busy summer for the airport with all these new scheduled european destinations!

chec tunset

20th Jan 2007, 22:34

There's a Vegas in the pipeline.

richardnei

21st Jan 2007, 08:58

Yes! Heard that Yesterday.

Anyone know the airline?

Brgds

Richard

MontyP

21st Jan 2007, 09:37

MyTravel. Bookable on their website for March and April 08. Looks like its just a one off:)

MontyP

22nd Jan 2007, 16:50

Viva Las Vegas! Direct from Belfast

21 January 2007

The bright lights of Las Vegas are now one step closer for local holidaymakers. MyTravel will launch direct flights from Belfast International to Las Vegas, the entertainment capital of the world, in March 2008. This will be the first ever direct flight to Western USA direct from Belfast and offers local travellers the chance to sample the delights that Vegas has to offer on 7 or 14 night breaks.
John Doran, managing director, Belfast international Airport, said, "We are delighted with the introduction of this flight to Las Vegas. Local holidaymakers will be able to fly direct to one of the United States most amazing cities and all from their local airport. We are committed to offering travellers as much choice as possible and we believe Las Vegas will be a fantastic addition to the growing list of destinations available from Belfast International Airport."

Kestrel_909

22nd Jan 2007, 16:53

Beat me to it Monty, only just :)

Quick look at MyT shows it first departing on 19/03/08 @ 0935, and arriving back into BFS at 0820 the following day.

Dee747

26th Jan 2007, 11:53

Some interesting stats from the CAA for the year ended Dec 2006, showing the following -

BFS Flights up 1.1% on 2005 to 48,214
BHD Flights down by 1.1% on 2005 to 36,891

BFS Pax up 4.1% on 2005 to 5,015,264 (The first time past the 5m mark I think)
BHD Pax down 5.9% on 2005 to 2,105,644

Without descending to the vitriol which sometimes clouds people's rational thoughts when both airports are mentioned in the same breath, what can we (or indeed, should we) read into these simple stats? I know they need to be looked at in a wider context, but can we read anything into them as they stand, other than the blatantly obvious?

Dee747

richardnei

26th Jan 2007, 16:57

Wouldn't be surprised if BFS was to record 5.4> million PAX in 2007, with so many new routes and increased frequencies already added for this year.

By looking at the pax numbers for routes from BHD it seems the LHR route is the one that is losing the most passengers, prob a result of less interline traffic, with so many new direct European and USA routes from Northern Ireland people don't have to get connecting flights anymore.

Any other thoughts

Brgds

Richard

EI-BUD

27th Jan 2007, 08:16

[quote=richardnei;3091372]Wouldn't be surprised if BFS was to record 5.4> million PAX in 2007, with so many new routes and increased frequencies already added for this year.

By looking at the pax numbers for routes from BHD it seems the LHR route is the one that is losing the most passengers, prob a result of less interline traffic, with so many new direct European and USA routes from Northern Ireland people don't have to get connecting flights anymore.

I agree with you Richardnei, mostly due to loss of interline traffic. If you look at the Air Berlin figures on BHD STN they seem to be very close to the loss of traffic for bmi on LHR(compared to same months last year since AB started), while the AB routes is showing no effect on EZY on BFSSTN !

True Blue

27th Jan 2007, 14:15

This still doesn't explain it. If pax are now using AB rather than BD, they are still using Bhd. But the pax nos for Bhd are down as a whole, in spite of a whole raft of new services. So why is that? Also, if they are offering more services, but pax are falling, so must load factors, I think. I checked the no of pax per flight for AB, I think it was december 06, from memory it came in at about 66. Is that successful for them?

I think AB would have been better to use Bfs and be part on a very good frequency to Stn , instead of offering 2x to bhd, which will suit few.

True Blue

EI-BUD

29th Jan 2007, 10:01

[quote=True Blue;3092635]This still doesn't explain it. If pax are now using AB rather than BD, they are still using Bhd. But the pax nos for Bhd are down as a whole, in spite of a whole raft of new services. So why is that? Also, if they are offering more services, but pax are falling, so must load factors, I think. I checked the no of pax per flight for AB, I think it was december 06, from memory it came in at about 66. Is that successful for them?

True Blue thanks for the reply. I was in particular refering to bmi LHR numbers. Bmi LHRBHD is down 7226 for NOV and AB is at 7114 which is a new route it is fair to say that AB have picked up some would be BD pax who would probably have travelled via LHR to eg German destinations. You will notice EZYs boarding on STNBFS have been largely unaffected by AB arrival onto the Belfast London Market.

The explanation as to why numbers are down overall is not one single thing but a few.
1. More direct flights from BFS to Europe and US mean many people who would have flown via UK and started their journey at BHD are using BFS.
2.Competition on many routes is intense. Eg LPL BE have cut back severly only to Weekend leisure route.Jet2 LBABFS is growing at BE expense.Due to changes to scheduling on many routes and competition from EZY (&WW) at BFS the following routes have big declines. NCL,LPL,LGW,BHX. Its a mixed bags of ups and downs as follows:

Ref to Nov details...compared to Nov 05
LGW -780
LHR -7226
STN +7114
BHX -2845
BRS -2057
DSA +3431 New
EDI -340
EXT -316
IOM -435
LBA -728
LPL -9296
MAN +12025
NCL -4040
NWI -2044
SOU -979
Changes as per CAA totals=-8516
some routes with small no.s excluded.

The future does seem like it will be interesting. I think Bmi will recover to some extent there numbers substantially as and when BA option is removed from the belfast equation. There will be a lack of interlining options. And I understand that BA & Bmi have an interlining agreement organised for after BAConnect is gone from BHD, so BA can offer a BHD link from the world via Bmi. You may be able to confirm this?

There is in my opinion a good opportunity for a carrier who will provide interlining facilities.

There are plus for 07, the new CWL , NQY and the first continental Europe services will bring good more passengers but how BE treat BHX and MAN after BAconnect is adsorbed will be important and I can see at least some rationalisation. The new numbers from new routes would not go far towards compensating for losses on these routes.

As regards AB being better off going to BFS , perhaps they have did not want a direct response from EZY. And AB have probably looked at there experience ex STN on other short routes that compete with EZY?

The loads dont seem to good on AB STNBHD but it has been growing and I would expect a company like AB to take the longer term view on the route. Grow the business, await a profit after a year or two and get the brand recognised locally. The loads would be in % ok on a F100 and quite poor on an Airbus.Again we will never know the yield that they are achieving, so hard to say how successful it is.We will just have to wait and see what happens no doubt 2007 will be an a year of change for the City airport.

richardnei

5th Feb 2007, 22:51

Seems VLM are operating 2 charter flights on SAT's from BFS this Summer. Operating for Channel Island Travel Service.

FLIGHT DETAILS:

SAT BFS/JER DEPARTS BFS @ 11:40 / ARRIVES BFS @ 11:10 26/5-8/9
SAT BFS/GCI DEPARTS BFS @ 13:15 / ARRIVES BFS @ 12:20 26/5-30/6

FLIGHTS OPERATED BY F50 A/C

Will make a change from all the usually charter traffic from BFS!

Brgds

Richard

Spotter McS

6th Feb 2007, 09:32

Noticed on the Stansted arrival board FR612, due to arrive from Belfast. Has MOL finally seen the light, or is he testing the water. Any ideas anyone?

Cheers

Medway Control

6th Feb 2007, 12:04

Diversion... Due to operate to stroke city, but diverted to Belfast. MOL has no interest in Belfast whatsoever, and if he wants a base in NI, stroke city will bend over backwards to make it happen!!

True Blue

7th Feb 2007, 21:46

I flew twice Bfs - Lgw on Easy last month, on the 2135 ex Bfs. There was only about 30 pax on both flights. While I understand Jan is a quiet month, if that flight had been leaving early am, there would have been more that 30 on it I bet. Why does Easy not offer an early departure ex Bfs, or someone else? I know there are slot problems at Lgw, but I think there is availability up to about 8.00am for an arrival. Is Easy losing interest in Bfs? I believe that Bfs will be the last base to convert to the A319. Why?

And why is FR not interested in Bfs? It offers better prospects than Ldy ever will long term.

True Blue

Danmadole

10th Feb 2007, 17:01

Just heard from a reputable source that Air France Cityjet are interested in basing an RJ85 or a 146 at BHD for flights to London City and Paris. It wont be too soon though as they are slowly but surely trying to train staff on the RJ85. This is taking longer than anticipated.

Also seems they are keeping some of their current 146's and looking to purchase extra RJ85s on top of the Mesaba machines (some of which have electrical problems having been sat in the Mojave desert for a while).

Head to head with EZY to Paris could be interesting......

en2r

10th Feb 2007, 18:31

The route wouldn't really be in competition with EZY, but more with BMI. It would be, like Dublin to Paris, operated so passengers can connect at Paris onto a longhaul Air France flight. With the increases in Air Passenger Duty, especially on long haul flights, it could be cheaper for many to transfer via CDG rather than LHR.

Danmadole

15th Feb 2007, 19:27

So the rumour was only half right.....:(

Cityjet are to start ops between LCY and BHD. Flights will be operated by Scot airways, so I assume their Dornier 328's will be used.

Advertisement link removed.

eastern wiseguy

15th Feb 2007, 19:39

Well swipe me ANOTHER Belfast London service...nearly as many as to the IOM !! :p :p

True Blue

16th Feb 2007, 19:59

Read on another site that EI are seriously considering both Belfast airports for next base.

If true, which would be best? Would they not want a pop at Lhr, if they go to Bhd they would have direct competition with BD. Also at Bhd, there is this operating hours restriction, apparently!

Any views?

True Blue

eastern wiseguy

16th Feb 2007, 20:18

Anyone else feel that the NI London area seems to be full up?.It appears to me that with EZY having STN/LTN/LGW pretty well stitched up and the choice of direct and "connecting"type routes via AMS/CDG/EWR there is even LESS reason to attempt another LHR route.

True Blue

16th Feb 2007, 20:21

The Caa stats for Jan 07 have some interesting reading.

Bd to Lhr under 50, 000, is this the first month that this has happened?
Jy to Bhx down 11%, WW up 36%
JY to Lba down 17%, LS no change.
Jy to Ncl must be in real danger, only 1447 pax.
WW to Man up 17% and Jy up 32%

Both airports up for the month Bhd 3 and Bfs 4. For the past year Bhd down 5.7% and Bfs up 4.1%.

True Blue

silverhawk

18th Feb 2007, 07:41

Anyone know if there's a cycle lock-up for staff at Aldergrove?

cougafer

19th Feb 2007, 20:45

hey,

does anyone know when the Cityjet BHD LCY flights go on sale? i cant seem to find them anywhere...:s

aeulad

20th Feb 2007, 09:30

The new flights to LCY will be operated by a ScotAirways D38.

Regards

Mike

True Blue

23rd Feb 2007, 22:47

See Flybe has changed the times Bhd - Cwl. A quick reaction to the changes by Baby.

True Blue

ESCNI

26th Feb 2007, 20:28

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6398983.stm

Airport scraps free car parking

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42280000/jpg/_42280586_airport-203.jpg

Free parking at Belfast International Airport is to be scrapped, the BBC has learned.

The Consumer Council has said the move will create more congestion at the terminal. Stringent security measures at all airports mean that cars are not allowed to park outside terminal buildings.

Since last year, people picking up friends and relatives at Belfast International have been allowed to park free for 10 minutes. If they exceed that time in the short stay car park, they have to pay. It costs £1.50 for up to 30 minutes and double that for up to an hour. To avoid this, people are entering and leaving the short stay on several occasions, or parking illegally out on the main road.

'Increase congestion'

The car parks at Aldergrove are operated by Q-Park, which has now scrapped the free parking period. It says people picking up passengers will now be able to park for up to 30 minutes for a fee of £1.00. The move has angered the Consumer Council - it says the free parking period should have been extended to half an hour, not cut altogether. And it claims the decision will increase congestion at the airport at peak times. The new tariff comes into effect on Thursday.

:*

cougafer

5th Mar 2007, 14:00

FLYBE BECOMES EUROPE’S LARGEST REGIONAL AIRLINE FOLLOWING ACQUISITION OF BA CONNECT DEAL AND SEES NEW ROUTE TO PARIS FOR NORTHERN IRELAND TRAVELLERS

05 March 2007

From today, passengers are set to benefit from lower fares, more routes and increased frequency on Flybe services as the airline announces the completion of its acquisition of BA Connect, the regional airline business of British Airways.
In addition to the launch of new routes and destinations, Flybe will take over many BA Connect routes with significant price savings of an average of £19 per passenger.

The deal will have a significant impact on Flybe’s operations out of George Best Belfast City Airport with the creation of a new through running service to Paris Charles de Gaulle via Cardiff and the increase of daily services on the airline’s already successful Manchester route from five to nine.

In total, the deal brings the creation of 11 new routes out of Flybe’s regional bases and sees the airline taking over 20 of the routes currently operated by BA Connect.

With 152 routes, operating from 22 UK and 34 European airports, Flybe will become Europe’s largest regional airline and will carry a higher proportion of business passengers with new routes to key commercial centres including Paris, Düsseldorf, Frankfurt and Milan.

This latest news confirms Flybe’s commitment to the regions with more growth, more flights and more investment.

Flybe plans to phase out all of the existing BA Connect fleet as soon as possible and fast-track completion of its £1.2bn investment programme in new Bombardier Q400 and Embraer 195 aircraft by 2009. Flybe will have a fleet of 82 aircraft, which will be one of the youngest and most environmentally sensitive fleets in the world. In line with its environment policy, Flybe will by then have reduced fuel consumption by over 50% per seat.

Says Mike Rutter, Chief Commercial Officer, Flybe: “Today’s announcement is not only great news for air travellers in Northern Ireland but across the UK and Europe. As the largest scheduled carrier operating out of George Best Belfast City Airport Flybe will continue to demonstrate its commitment to Northern Ireland with ongoing growth in the route network, investment in the local community and tangible support for both business and tourism sectors. With our direct service to Rennes scheduled to begin operations in May and the new through route to Paris announced today, Flybe is focused on maximising the network opportunities afforded by this acquisition to further increase our European connections for Northern Ireland travellers.”

“With minimal route overlap, integration will be seamless and passengers will soon be flying to 56 business and leisure destinations in new, more efficient and significantly more comfortable aircraft.”

Lead in one way fares including taxes and charges for Flybe’s service to Manchester start from £19.99. The new through running service to Paris (via Cardiff) will begin operations on 25th March and will offer a lead in one way fare including taxes and charges of £39.99.

----------------------

Do you think we could ever see a non-stop service from BHD to CDG in the near future? Surely the necessity of stopping off in Cardiff would be off putting to potential travellers, no?
Also it doesn't mention the frequency of these flights, is it just 1/daily?

C

mysecretsmile

5th Mar 2007, 21:19

I don't really think the BHD to CDG (via Cardiff) really offers that much benefit to the consumer. A direct flight would be a huge success (if they use the right aircraft i.e. ERJ 145)

I think joe public now demands direct flights and the fact that Easyjet already offer this from BFS to CDG suggests to me it won't work via Cardiff.

eastern wiseguy

5th Mar 2007, 21:20

Do you think we could ever see a non-stop service from BHD to CDG in the near future?

No

Surely the necessity of stopping off in Cardiff would be off putting to potential travellers, no?

Yes

omoko joe

5th Mar 2007, 21:21

can't see the attraction of a 1 stop service even if you don't like orange :rolleyes:

gate 22

6th Mar 2007, 15:23

Hi I am new to this forum - just a quick question - bmi seem to be operating 9 flights each direction on a Monday in March and this Friday (BHD-LHR) arriving in am and departing late afternoon does anybody know the reason for this

Regards

Gate 22

NWSRG

6th Mar 2007, 18:47

I wonder will the acquisition of BA Connect help to improve FlyBe's customer service any? It can't make it any worse...

SELF SERVICE C/IN

6th Mar 2007, 19:05

Monday and Friday extra flights bd098 lhrbhd arr 1145 bd099 bhdlhr 1615, are slot savers.

gate 22

6th Mar 2007, 19:51

Well it looks as though Fly-be are certainly trying to dent Easyjet's dominance at Belfast this summer, with Newcastle up to 2 daily, Gatwick to 5 daily and a weak attempt at Paris via Cardiff (which BA operated with a J41 several years ago-I wonder how successful that was - considering there were no direct non-stop flights to Paris then). I suppose from Easyjet's point of view an early morning departure to Gatwick, double up on Paris with an early morning departure out (as per their plans at Bristol) This would probably involve the addition of one aircraft (which I suppose is due at some point in the near future) With holiday flights leaving later in the day the six dedicated aircraft could serve the London's (3) Paris (1) Bristol (1) and Amsterdam (1) or 'Brussels' (The EEC capital missing from Belfast since 2001) with the additional aircraft a few extra holiday additions could also be thrown in like a Saturday flight to La Rochelle (what a waste that Ibiza flight is this summer) maybe a couple to Venice 'one can dream'

Air Badger

6th Mar 2007, 19:58

Hello all, just wondering what you guys think of potential for BHD-DUB... was quite surprised when i heard noone's doing it, despite the short distance (surely it's no different than MAN-LHR/LGW, on a smaller scale)! There must be the demand by businessmen as well as tourists, as DUB has far more scheduled international destinations than BFS, no?

Devonair

6th Mar 2007, 20:13

Air badger
RE tried BHD to DUB and it lasted for only a few weeks or so. Incidently according to the AA; Dublin to Belfast via road is only 166km (1hr 56mins), Manchester to London is 321km (3hrs 53 mins). Plus the M1 in Ireland is a pleasure to drive on in comparison to the car park that is the M6. Once the last stretch of road between Newry and Dundalk in dualed journey times will be reduced yet further.

Air Badger

6th Mar 2007, 20:21

Ah ok thanks Devonair. I was going by train times for the comparison with MAN-LON... 2 hours compared to 2 1/2! I'm assuming it was low pax numbers that stopped RE? Do you know what a/c they were using?

Kestrel_909

6th Mar 2007, 21:20

An ATR42, or was it 72, but an ATR anyway.

As for an early morning departure BFS-LGW, it's been discussed before and isn't happening as they don't have the slots for it. At the minute all BFS-LGW and LGW-BFS are operated by LGW based A319s. Not sure about a 6th? based 737 either in BFS, some have already started leaving the fleet and not sure what availability there is.

gate 22

6th Mar 2007, 21:43

That old BA classic route BA7801 CWL-CDG BA7802 CDG-BHD/BFS-ABN BA7805 ABN-BHD/BFS-CWL-CDG BA7806 CDG-CWL (a bit of nostalgia-9yrs ago) I think this operated via BHD until about 99 then moved to BFS, and I think if was a wee J41

chec tunset

7th Mar 2007, 01:49

Reality check guys. There is no 6th airframe, no early LGW and no doubling up on CDG. The writing has been on that wall for ages. The lack of effective response to Jet2 moving in on EZY routes should've spelled it out clearly. Ezy are busy frying Non UK fish. Their eye is not on the BFS ball. Open season for other carriers methinks :hmm:

gate 22

7th Mar 2007, 13:51

I cannot understand the obsession which airlines seem to have with bhd particulary so called business airlines. Most travellers who use NI airports originate from NI. Apart from North Down, East Belfast and the Ards area, all other areas of NI have to travel into congested Belfast if they want to fly to say LHR. It would seem to me that people are voting with their feet (quite literally today) by using alternatives-declining numbers since bmi moved - also the passenger figures for STN - BHD are on the face of it very poor. (Easy jet untouched after Air Berlin operating for nearly one year now). I wonder if there is a very limited market for BHD which the airlines who use it refuse to accept.

True Blue

7th Mar 2007, 14:11

Gate 22

I agree with you totally.

If you live in the Northwest and need an early flight, it's bad enough getting to Bfs without having to drive past it to Bhd. I know since Lhr moved to Bhd, I rarely use it, use Lgw instead if possible. And I would be a fairly regular traveller.

True Blue

gate 22

7th Mar 2007, 14:31

Even if you have to use any route into Belfast including M2/M1, Saintfield road, etc etc between 0700-0930 in the morning 1600-1800 in the evening and you want to catch a plane or arrive back in the province forget it. And any way if your plane arrives in after 2330 or so, or its windy your up to Aldergrove any way, then in a bus back down to the City to get your car, then your stuck in traffic (if its windy during rush hour). So really operating hours of Bhd are 06.30-07.00, 09.30-16.00, 18.00-21.30 for the travelling public with regard to road congestion. The only problem is no LHR at Aldergrove, no signs of Emirates yet anybody

cityjet

7th Mar 2007, 15:15

Hi All,

New Cityjet Routes now on sale!

Cityjet

tallseabird

7th Mar 2007, 15:31

Just had a look, out on a Monday morning and back on a Friday afternoon or evening - Total £ 448.40 - reminds me of the good old days before Easyjet!

Spotter McS

7th Mar 2007, 20:03

Looks like CityJet have priced this one way out of any Leisure travellers reach. I also can see Business Users finding prices a little too steep as well :ugh: I get the feeling that CityJet's heart isn't in this one :suspect:

Spotter

mmeteesside

7th Mar 2007, 20:19

I imagine it may well be Scot Airways that set the prices (or at least they'll want so much from Cityjet for operating the services) as they are the ones who are operating it :confused:

chrism20

7th Mar 2007, 20:29

I imagine it may well be Scot Airways that set the prices (or at least they'll want so much from Cityjet for operating the services) as they are the ones who are operating it

True, Scotairways are not the cheapest but the service is excellent - they are on a par with Eastern in my opinion.

Strangely the BHD-LCY is not on sale on Scotairways own website, I would have thought that they would have wanted to flog a few seats themselves seeing as it's on their metal

the former gk

7th Mar 2007, 21:20

Give them six months at the most.Never worked for flybe on a 37 seat dash at lower fares.Just tried to book off peak flights and came up with £110.00 return.No way I say.Also,for how much longer can Air Berlin sustain low loads and heavy losses on the BHD/STN route.
Flybe to CWL isnt exactly business friendly either,with an early morning dept from BHD however,the same aircraft not arriving back into BHD until well into the afternoon because off the CDG service.Therefore no business service to BHD am.All of to WW methinks.

tommyc2005

8th Mar 2007, 08:29

GK - How do you know AB are making heavy losses on the BHD? Remember yield is the key, and their fares tend to be reasonably high compared to other 'LCCs'. Plus their loads aren't diabolical, probably around 60%ish.

ALLMCC

10th Mar 2007, 11:17

Gate22/True Blue

I see your locations are both Co Antrim hence the obvious bias towards BFS - however, not everyone lives in or wants to travel to or from Co Antrim - there are five other counties in NI not all in the North West which is precisely why BHD continues to be so popular!

On the subject of LHR from BFS, don't hold your breath, it's never going to happen.

eastern wiseguy

10th Mar 2007, 17:48

there are five other counties in NI not all in the North West which is precisely why BHD continues to be so popular

What tosh......glad to see the static from our anoraked friend is as incomprehensible as ever. The figures for the airfields speak volumes....:ugh:

NWSRG

10th Mar 2007, 19:53

ALLMCC,

So only Co. Antrim has better access to BFS than BHD?

Co. Londonderry...straight down the M2 to...BFS
Co. Armagh...Moira roundabout, then A26 to...BFS
Co. Fermanagh...M1, then as per Co. Armagh to...BFS
Co. Tyrone...As per Co. Fermanagh, or to Cookstown then as per Co. Londonderry to...BFS
Co. Down...ok, we'll give you this one, BHD is handier (unless of course it is south Down, in which case it's the A26 again...)

So if you live in east Belfast, or North Down, then BHD is definitely handier...otherwise...BFS!

And of course, once you get into the airport itself, that's another story...give me BFS anytime!

Buc Driver

11th Mar 2007, 10:32

ALLMCC, as someone who lives only 10 minutes from BHD, I have to say that for me its BFS everytime. Geography does not dictate choice!

True Blue

11th Mar 2007, 18:23

Has anyone else read on another forum (starts with letter A) that Mr Walsh addressed the chartered accountants annual gathering in Belfast on Saturday and stated that Ba want to restart Belfast - Lhr?

Also in the same thread, someone has stated that Bmi are to soon make some big decisions regarding Belfast. Expand at Bhd and move WW there or move Bd to Bfs. Also said that Bd want to go 10 daily to Lhr. Seems odd as weekend services to Lhr seem to be going to 6 at the start of the summer season. I did read recently in the Business telegraph the WW were looking at ways of expanding ops at Belfast.

Please don't shoot me, I know nothing about these rumours, as I said, read them elsewhere.

True Blue

Flybeeeee

11th Mar 2007, 19:54

NWSRG: "I wonder will the acquisition of BA Connect help to improve FlyBe's customer service any? It can't make it any worse..."
You cheeky sod.....before I really defend myself here could you clarify which area of Customer Service you refer to:
Customer Call Centre?
Customer Relations?
Customer Service at airports provided by 3rd party handling agents?

BHDflyer

11th Mar 2007, 20:41

What was the name of the forum yo heard this in?:confused:

NWSRG

11th Mar 2007, 21:46

Flybeeee,

I'll gladly tell you where FLybe has atrocious customer service...

A customer service centre which has refused to reply to customer queries on three separate occasions. But it really got to me when I asked about a flight I was due to take two weeks from the time of query...I got a reply telling me that they had 28 days in which to respond!

Check-in staff at LGW (and I hasten to add it was only two of them...there may be many sensible ones) who could offer no answer other than those programmed into them at the android engineering centre...

And one particularly obnoxious hostie whose customer training was obviously provided by David Brent...(although again, her colleague was much more reasonable).

Just seems to be a much higher occurence of poor treatment than with Easy, BMI, BMIbaby, Jet2 etc.

Flybeeeee

11th Mar 2007, 21:58

NWSRG

I am sorry to hear that your experiences of Flybe Customer Services seem to be somewhat dissapointing. Whilst Flybe do have 28 days to respond to all queries, we are very proud that a response can usually be turned around in less than 24 hours should it be a simple query or less than (usually) 14 days should something need investigating (delays etc)

Any emails or anything like that which are recieved are either logged into a system for official response or if allowed, responded to when recieved. All E-mails are answered unless it is junk emails selling Viagra which unfortunaltey happens would you believe! So I am truly sorry that you are dissapointed however I can assure you that had your query been recieved, it would not have been deleted or disposed of.

As for London Gatwick, the services are offered by a handling agent like most of the Flybe stations. This is not unique to Flybe as it often has many benefits however since August 2006, London Gatwick appears to have caused a few problems.

Flybe prides itselves in having the best crew around and this is regularly supported by other passenger feedback. So Flybe would only be able to apologise for any dissatisfaction felt on this occasion.

Whilst I do not work in Customer Relations, I have enough knowledge on how it works and I can safely say that we have a brilliant team. Any pre-flight queries (Should the passenger not wish to contact the Call Centre) can usually be answered by emailing [email protected] I do hope that you will allow my colleagues a chance to prove themselves again at some point (And then again, in some ways we hope you won't need to contact them if you see what I mean;) )

nav3

11th Mar 2007, 22:05

What IS nice is the fact that amongst all the rumours, there are actually some real people out there working for these airlines who do take the time and trouble to assist others even if the company they work for fails. ...Well done 'Flybeeeee of Devon' !!:ok: ..........and all the rest of you kind enough to reply on these forums.

True Blue

11th Mar 2007, 22:13

"On the subject of LHR from BFS, don't hold your breath, it's never going to happen"

ALLMCC - how do you know that it's never going to happen? I would like to share in your thinking on this subject. Of course, you may well be very right.

True Blue

gate 22

12th Mar 2007, 08:15

Let me state my position on the Belfast airports thing. I believe Belfast only requires one airport for the following reasons:-
1. Population very small (recent debate down south seems to suggust that Dublin is too small a city for 2 airports!!!!! manchester has one - no further questions!!!!!
2. Handier for me (the flier) simply gives me more choice, I can park my car at one Belfast airport and have a greater choice of options, eg fly Easyjet to Bristol and back form Exeter with Flybe - The competition is between the airlines not the airports-I would have 7 options to STN up to 9 to LGW etc.
3. Environmental-with one airport there would be a slight consolidation of services less flights good for environment. Also with BFS obviously being the preferred option as the airport, then the housing shortage in NI would be helped be ths acres of land currently uccupied by Bhd, which could be turned into 1000's of homes. Also the people of Belfast will have a better quality of life without interference from Airbuses etc every 10 mins. (hopefully an adiditional levy will soon apply to these city airports from government in the short term to curtail there growth and reduce the carbon emissions for city centres)

I can't think of any reasons at the moment but anyway

eastern wiseguy

12th Mar 2007, 10:52

Gate 22....logical...thought out and intelligent. Don't expect anything other than drivel in response from Allmcc. I personally agree 100% that two airfields actually STUNTS the development of the aviation infrastructure in NI.The argument was posed when the Consumer Council came out in favour of development of both airfields,however they thought that competition should be between AIRPORTS (12 miles apart) rather than AIRLINES. They were misguided then and I believe the idea behind that competition remains misguided now.

Flybeeeee

12th Mar 2007, 11:20

NAV3 - We all have to do our bit ;) Thanks for the comments though :)

wingman863

12th Mar 2007, 14:06

I personally much prefer BHD but your arguement gate 22, is a very compelling one. BFS would obviously be the only option for such a merging of services for the size issue alone, nevermind the redisents of the surrounding area whinging about the increase in traffic.

My problem with BFS is that is simpily vile. Both airports have some of the most rip-off eating establishments I've ever experienced but BHD is a much more plesant place to be. The BFS lounges are terrible and to be honest, the people you tend to get flying from there on many occasions, are complete Henry Lloyds jetting off for a week of getting sunburnt and usually are sitting in the pubs beforehand getting smashed. On three occasions from Aldergrove I've experienced a band of louts on a flight but never yet, touch wood, from BHD. While the airport can do very little about this, it does contribute to BHD being a nicer airport from which to fly.

frequentflyer2

12th Mar 2007, 14:10

As much as BHD suits me as in taxi terms it's just round the corner, I can see the problems posed to the development of air services in Northern Ireland by having two airports. To be honest I sometimes wonder if either airport is in the right place.
It seems when the decision was taken to move from Nutts Corner one of the locations considered was the former Long Kesh airfield at Maze.
This was rejected in favour of Aldergrove but it's hard to understand why.
For people who do not know the geography of Northern Ireland the Long Kesh site is approximately 12 miles from Belfast City Centre just south of Lisburn.
It's right beside the M1 motorway and the province's main railway line.
At times of congestion it would be much easier to get to than BHD for people living north of Belfast.
At the same time it would be much less problematic than Aldergrove for people from North Down and Ards as they would not need to negotiate the rush hour melee on the M3 bridge and M2 foreshore section.
It is likely the close proximity of the railway would mean many more people using public transport to get to the airport while coach services could take full advantage of the neighbouring motorway.
If an airport had been developed at Long Kesh I doubt whether BHD would have been quite as successful.
It's probably a mental block but if you're flying to Great Britain and you live in East Belfast or North Down it's seems ludicrous to drive past an airport serving the destination you want to fly to and then face another 15 miles slog up to Aldergrove which is a good 10 minutes drive from the M2.

gate 22

12th Mar 2007, 15:03

On the facilities at BFS they certainly could be better, but lets look at the past. In 2001 say May if you had said to me, what are the chances of bmi moving to BHD? I would have answered no way!. If you then had asked, why?. I would have replied that Bmi use the Airbus A321 and that aircraft is banned from using the City airport as well as the night curfew and passenger number restriction etc etc. Okay back to the present on earlier posts we have heard of Aer Lingus discussing a Belfast operation with BOTH airports/ bmi baby switching to BHD etc etc. Now when I think about these rumours I would say for commercial, common sense, environmental reasons etc etc No way will not happen, BUT it all has happened before. Now if I was the managing director of BFS would I invest heavily in a new 2 level terminal with multi-storey carpark and fast frequent rail link. Not with the present threat of expansion at Bhd. Even the last outcome of the planning report has left more questions than answers. Will Bhd get planning for late evening scheduled arrivals? - possibly. Will they extend the runway and be granted 24hr operation? possibly. That's why with 2 airports, the travelling passenger is the loser at the end of the day. If there never was a Bhd, Bfs would be a huge airport competing against Dublin carrying over 7 million passengers pa not far behind Edinburgh. The infrastructure would be improved with the shear volume of traffic - maybe we would be discussing the new rail link, new muli-storey carpark (keeping us dry) something that will actually benefit us as travelling passengers, rather than fighting which is the 'best' airport to use. Oh and people in North Down, South and East Belfast would sleep well in bed at night knowing that the chances of an A321 landing on their roof was remote.

the former gk

12th Mar 2007, 15:16

Totally agree with you and I have said exactly the same on this forum a few years ago.There is no need for two airports within the small catchment area that is Northern Ireland.I will say it again.Competition should be between airlines and not airports.If a flight cancels for some reason then people in Belfast simply cant go and rebook onto the competitors service because their ticket desk is 19 miles away either up,or down the road,in another airport.Its absolute bonkers.

gate 22

12th Mar 2007, 15:52

Good point - I never thought of it like that. So in actual fact its the airlines that win with two airports from early negotiation's through to operation. I suppose at Belfast there are no competing routes from the same airport apart from IOM - i think, so as you say, if a flight is cancelled you can't nip across the hall. Yet the belief out there is that two airports give's passengers choice, which is only an advantage if you live close to a particular airport. So at the end of the day the airlines win, airports and passengers end up losers. Cannot be good for NI plc. Oh and the loss in traffic to Dublin another by-product of this silly situation.

eastern wiseguy

12th Mar 2007, 16:35

loss in traffic to Dublin another by-product of this silly situation.

Slight thread drift...but the way UK tax is increasing t will drive more and more pax to airports outside of NI . I personally now arrange Mrs EW's flights to and from Cleveland(oh) out via DUB and return via BFS to prevent Gordon getting his hands on as little of our hard earned cash as we can !

wingman863

12th Mar 2007, 20:15

The Dublin problem is a growing one with the vast improvement in the road network heading south. Aircoach run pretty regularly from outside the Jury's hotel in belfast straight to Dublin airport in VERY comfortable coaches and so flying from Dublin has virtually none of the hassle it used to. I think a return ticket is either 12 £ or 12 euro if my memory serves me correctly which either way, is pretty cheap. My ideal situation would be for the city airport to expand, get a longer runway through extensions and utilise what seems to be considerable space at the other side of the airfield. Its a much more central location in terms of Belfast although I doubt BHD would ever have the capacity for the cargo operations located at aldergrove with the large dedicated apron and associated warehouses.

What is the situation regarding the RAF at aldergrove? Are they likely to move out any time soon? Is the cost of running the airfield shared fairly between the RAF and BIA or do the RAF pay a hugh chunk which would cause BFS to crumble should the RAF pull out?

While I love being a passenger from the city, being a GA pilot is brilliant in aldergrove. The ATC in aldergrove is famously pilot-friendly (esp if your thick like me) and it is a great opportunity to mix it with the commercial heavy metal using the place too. I doubt GA could exist to the same extent at an enlarged BHD.

BHDflyer

12th Mar 2007, 21:10

Belfast City Airport gets my vote because it is a newer airport than Belfast International and at least it looks like an airport after security. Belfast Interntional now looks like a shopping centre after security. However, if you asked me, say in about April 2001 (before the new terminal of the city airport opened), whic airport did you prefer, I would say Belfast International because back then, it was an airport. A large open window around the Gate 18 area with light shining in and you could see the planes, and friendly staff who actually worked for an airline and were proud of their jobs, and a duty free shop which lets face it, was all you needed! I then would have said that Belfast City was just a shabby old garden shed where you might as well be standing waiting for a bus! Belfast International nowadays is the same building which has just been installed with too many retail outlets to try and make it look modern, whereas Belfast City has just what you need: a bar, a newsagents, a small duty free, windows, and alltogether a warmer feeling to it, an airport.

stevNI

12th Mar 2007, 22:37

I see that zoom have announced a new transatlantic service from BFS to Halifax in Canada!
Also good to hear that BFS has launched a cross-border advertising campaign! The 4 week advertising campaign is now being run in the border counties to attract attention to BFS and the huge number of new services here, some of which are not avaliable from Dublin. The cost of the advertising is said to be a six figure sum and is hoped that more travellers will be attracted from the Republic.

Tower Ranger

13th Mar 2007, 10:35

GATE 22

You have made one very interesting justification as to why there should be two Airports. They are virtually no competing flights at Aldergrove as competition has been killed off by LCC`s. If there was only one Airport there may be competition in the short term but as has already happened the eventual outcome would be one airline operating one route with no competition and no consumer choice. The choice of two airports ensures that NI travellers have the option to chose which airline they travel with to the same destunations ensuring competitive pricing.
I just tend to travel with the cheapest which often happens to be Flybe or the most convenient for onward connections through Heathrow which is always Bmi. I check the price and make up my own mind rather than have one Airline rip me off!!
In reality there is no point saying what you`d like. There are two Airports so get over it and have a pleasant and somewhat cheaper flight whichever one you choose!!

PS Traffic congestion in Belfast relative to any other Capital City is a minor delay!! Try getting through Dublin at 8am!!!
Cheers

nav3

13th Mar 2007, 10:40

....try getting through or around Dublin at ANY Time !!:uhoh:

gate 22

13th Mar 2007, 11:45

Are you saying that if there has always only been one airport for Belfast, then there would be only 4 airlines operating domestic uk flights WW, LS, EZY and BD, oh and plus IOM flights, that Fly-be would simply close-up shop and leave - I actually think that what you would find is that Fly-be's prices would come down and they would become more competitive. I mean look at Glasgow or Edinburgh all the airlines compete there. Why don't we have an airport in Portadown (Aer Lingus), one in Ballymena (BA) oh and one in Cookstown (KLM). NORTHERN IRELAND IS TWO SMALL FOR 3 AIRPORTS.

cougafer

13th Mar 2007, 15:46

Is it likely that easyJet will announce new routes from BFS in the near future? Perhaps for the winter timetable? Perhaps new based aircraft? How many aircraft are currently based at BFS?

ta

c

richardnei

13th Mar 2007, 21:07

Easy currently base 5 x 737-700's at BFS. I don't think theres any plans for any more based aircraft since the 737 fleet is being withdrawn.

Most likely new routes include: MAD/DTM.

Prob more chance of Jet2 expanding than Easyjet at the Minute.

Brgds

richard

cougafer

13th Mar 2007, 21:39

you mentioned DTM, I really wish either Jet2 or easyJet would launch some new French/Swiss/German/Austrian routes, as a keen French and German language student, cheap flights to such places would be very beneficial :) :) plus I would like to see my local (intl) airport expanding.

perhaps Air Berlin would launch direct, or should I say non-stop services to Germany, instead of via Stansted, e.g. Düsseldorf would be good :)

gate 22

13th Mar 2007, 22:39

I flew from Dublin with Ryanair in September to La Rochelle. On both flights the number of Northern Ireland accents surprised me. I thought that it would be a good weekly flight on a Saturday with Easyjet this summer, as they already fly from BRS to La Rochelle, but they chose to compete against Jet 2 on Ibiza. I know Flybe have talked of La Rochelle from Belfast. Vancouver is to go all year with Zoom, great ski destination. I wonder if Jet 2 will introduce a few ski destinations from Belfast this winter.

richardnei

14th Mar 2007, 20:28

If Jet2 were to start any new routes for this Winter, Mostly would be:

ACE
DUS
CMF

Brgds

Richard

cougafer

26th Mar 2007, 13:34

Have flybe repainted any of BAconnect's erjs? I swear i just saw one in a flybe colourscheme fly over my house on approach to BHD

Checked BHD website Arrivals page, and the time matched a BE flight from Manchester - BE7018

ta

c

gate 22

29th Mar 2007, 14:40

There is an article today on the beeb website about residents winning first round of legal challenge into the lifting of the passenger cap. I thought this was all sorted out with the recent planning review and that the cap had been lifted with all parties happy, and that the planners were in the process of producing a final document. Financial remuneration to local residents with respect to late arrivals etc etc

NWSRG

29th Mar 2007, 17:58

Probably seeing things, as the eyes aren't what they used to be but I thought I saw an Aer Lingus A32x go into BHD today...

Could I be right?

eastern wiseguy

30th Mar 2007, 06:54

OK ...trying this again...my post of last night has vanished. I checked the strips and found no EIN callsign yesterday in the Belfast area.

Medway Control

30th Mar 2007, 09:47

might've been the charter flight for the sweden supporters from stockholm... it was in bhd around lunchtime yesterday... Dont know what colour it was though, but it definitely wasnt a shamrock

ALLMCC

31st Mar 2007, 10:11

So called "residents groups" concerned with expansion at BHD have been given leave to appeal against increasing the passenger cap by 1m annually - according to a spokesman granting of this would constitute a "change of use" for the airport and in breach of current planning legislation!

Ah hello! - what change of use would that be? BHD will still be an airport simply looking to expand, not a licensed house of ill repute!

It really is time for these "concerned" residents to be told that their continued interference in operations at BHD will no longer be tolerated! They've made their point so now's the time for all to move on!

eastern wiseguy

31st Mar 2007, 10:18

It really is time for these "concerned" residents to be told that their continued interference in operations at BHD will no longer be tolerated!

Ja mein fuehrer:rolleyes: :rolleyes: ....what a load of bolleaux as usual...Airports HAVE to live in harmony with their surroundings NOT trample over people so that spotters can see more aircraft through the fence!

BHDflyer

31st Mar 2007, 16:17

"Ja mein fuehrer:rolleyes: :rolleyes: ....what a load of bolleaux as usual...Airports HAVE to live in harmony with their surroundings NOT trample over people so that spotters can see more aircraft through the fence!"

Of course, some Belfast people like you are actually louder than the planes that leave the city airport!!!:=

eastern wiseguy

31st Mar 2007, 16:54

BHD Flyer
I fail to see what relevance your "jibe" has. Does it move the discussion one iota? No? thought not. Now shuffle off and check your "reggies":=

ps I am from Bangor!

BHDflyer

31st Mar 2007, 19:15

I apologise. I just assumed by your words you were a moaning resident from that area in East Belfast, but I shouldn't jump to conclusions.

Sorry again

frequentflyer2

31st Mar 2007, 21:46

I'm not trying to belittle people's genuine concerns but what is it these residents groups are scared of?
Would a later arrival from Heathrow really make that much difference? We're only talking about an airbus and possibly a couple of Dash 8 400's from other airports.
As a passenger I've arrived at BHD much later than the 'watershed'. I remember coming in on a delayed Flybe flight from Liverpool at almost midnight and on a delayed BA flight from Manchester at around 11.00pm.
I can't remember which approaches we flew but the residents of both East Belfast and North Down appeared to survive the experience.
I really is a case of NIMBY. I take it these people are quite happy to depart at all hours of the day and night on holiday flights and lo-co services from Belfast International.
People live there too. For example the majority of approaches pass over Killead seconds before touchdown - many of them long after 9.30pm.
I work with someone who lives in Crumlin and they get the full benefit of easyJet, Jet2, bmibaby, MYT, First Choice etc as they take off.
Many people in that area work at Belfast International and appreciate the economic benefits it brings.
Perhaps someone who is concerned about later flights into Belfast City could explain clearly what they fear.

wingman863

1st Apr 2007, 02:15

Amen.

I live quite nearby to the flightpath, not directly under but I certainly hear the planes as they depart or arrive from BHD. The loudest is without doubt are the bmi airbusses, but even they wouldnt stop you from sleeping. Its just backround noise which comes hand in hand with living in any urban area. One thing which is undoubtedly true is that a largish lorry (not articulated or anything, just your standard delivery van for the likes of a Vivo) clattering up my street at 6am is FAR more likely to wake me than an overflying airbus on approach to BHD.

I say we burn the Vivo vans!!! :}

Seriously though, while for a few people it may be a pain in the ass, its really not worth the overall fuss. I'd love a late night in from edinburgh please... Ban noisey trucks, car horns, kids in the street (wee bastards) and skateboards. All of the above are much more disruptive than aircraft so I demand a protest group.

gate 22

1st Apr 2007, 09:25

Now come on now, residents have rights. I worked in East Belfast for 2 years, about half a mile from the airport and the noise was very intrusive. I mean if you lived right under the flight path and your having a barbeque on a Saturday evening, a string of flights flying over head, with folk waving from the windows kind of ruins the moment. As for road traffic nuisance-roads have been around now for 100 years, so if you buy a house in an urban area near a road then expect traffic noise all day and night. However if they decided to turn the Newtownards Road into the 'M6' then there may be a little noise from residents. As for Killead and out lying areas its about damage limitations ie the BFS does't affect too many people here where as BHD affects 100's of thousands of people. What are the statistics most aviation accidents happen while landing and taking off.... Final point Bhd are taking the mickey. Its suppose to be a business airport like LCA (which actually seems to respect its residents eg do Airbuses, 737's use it, does it have charter flights to Malaga, Verona, Chambery - its geared up for business) Bhd is trying to grow beyond its original intention and thats why it needs to be legislated in its use. I mean is it necessary for sun sand and sea flights from Bhd. I'm quite sure people who live away out there in Bangor and are going to Malaga for a week will not mind an extra 20mins to the airport.

wingman863

1st Apr 2007, 15:58

How do you legislate to ensure that charter flights do not use an airport? Surely pricing them out of the airport is the best solution but can this really be set down in law?

While I see your point that BHD affects many more people, the number of people it affects to an intrusive extent is very small indeed. While for a few people having a barbeque in their back garden on a sunny saturday might be a bit pissed off, these flights pass close to where I live (albeit at a higher altitude) and cause virtually no problems, disruption or irritation.

And while roads may have lay in the same place for 100 years, the vivo truck clattering up the streets around when I live hasn't been. Change can be a pain in the hole but it's necessary and we might just have to limit our NIMBY mentality to take account of this.

Bell Rhyni

1st Apr 2007, 21:34

People who purchase property near an airport do not get to browbeat said airport- those who have made a fortune by actively investing in such property have even less right. How much for a two-up two-down near LHR now vs 20+ years ago, for example? BHD similar?

eastern wiseguy

1st Apr 2007, 21:37

Yes .....BUT LHR has been there for years doing it's stuff...the City was a tuppeny hapenny hole in the hedge which has expanded (allegedly) beyond its remit. Hence the review. In this case it is the AIRPORT which has moved in on the residents...:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

gate 22

1st Apr 2007, 22:01

How many planes does Jet2 have based at Belfast and what are they. Reading on a thread recently suggested 2 737's for the summer. Today there were 3 in this evening from Prague, Murcia and I think Barcelona all arriving within a couple of hours of each other (ceefax p457). Is this just on a Sunday?

Also things are quiet at BFS, nothing in the pipeline eg Emirates (which starts at Newcastle in the autumn). There have been rumours floating about in the press over the years about this option. I mean we have peace and the best golf courses outside of the USA now, keep the routes coming.

Why is Inverness still listed as a destination in the pull down menu with Easyjet/Belfast from Inverness end (administration error I suppose).

Answers please on a postcard!!!!

Kestrel_909

1st Apr 2007, 22:05

Jet2 - 2 based 737s 7 days a week as far as I know, one 733QC and one 734 of Futura. Not sure what happens with times like Sunday evening.

chec tunset

1st Apr 2007, 23:46

they've 3 for the summer, including the langford lodge brigade.

BFS/BHD

2nd Apr 2007, 16:50

I noticed last night that the viewing gallery is closed due to terminal developments. Does anybody know what these developments are?

Straightahead

2nd Apr 2007, 21:18

This is due to enlarging lounge 17

Tower Ranger

2nd Apr 2007, 22:20

Eastern, really!!
" In this case it is the AIRPORT which has moved in on the residents..."

You know that is not really the case.

Taking Heathrow as the example, what has the movement growth been there in the past ten years? I`d guess that its been around 10% which for an airport of that size is a substantial increase in traffic.
With all this wailing and gnashing of teeth from the beleaguered residents groups Belfast City must have had a similarly spectacular increase in traffic? Far from it! Belfast City has had fewer movements in the last year than it had ten or eleven years ago. Not only are there less aircraft but the slow climbing noisy turboprops have been replaced with newer quieter aircraft with much better climb performance enabling them to be clear of the noise abatement restrictions much sooner after departure.The terminal is now further from the nearest housing and due to the improved taxiway system there is less time spent taxying for departure.
So, rather than the Airport moving in on the residents its really just the changing face of society, the whinging culture and political correctness that pervades every area of our lives that has led to so much fuss about less aircraft.

Gate22, you`re a very funny guy and you must have terrific eyesight if you can see people waving at you from a plane over 600ft above you. I can`t even see them waving at me from the runway and i`ve got a fairly good view of that!! I lived under the 04 approach path within 3 miles of the threshold for almost 2 years and there was no significant aircraft noise and certainly no complaints from any of my neighbours.

My theory is that the propensity to complain appears to be directly proportional to ones income and inversely proportional to how hard one has to work for a living.Now let some NIMBY prove me wrong!!

eastern wiseguy

2nd Apr 2007, 22:38

You know that is not really the case.
Now now TR you are being most economical with the truth. When the good folks of east Belfast saw the RNAS Sydenham decline they certainly did NOT expect to have an airport which is trying to push upwards of TWO MILLION people through it on their doorsteps. In that case I consider my opinion to be fair and correct.They have seen the infrastructure change beyond all recognition from a series of ...errrrrr.....nothing to a snazzy new terminal building(on a clear day you can see the old entrance!) and a series of flights which kickoff now at 0630 and which if things are to be believed might extend as far a 2230 (under NORMAL circumstances. Remember M B....Y on tv once saying how huggy feely BHD was inasmuch as they only opened between dawn and dusk).If that is not a "change of use" then I will give out IOM 90:ok: . Glad to see you are still with us.......long time no hear

gate 22

2nd Apr 2007, 23:09

Its quite late and I think I will hit the hay! . Now Tower Ranger I take it from your many assumptions that 'gate22 is a masculine name!!!! anyway. 'People waving from the window' was not mean't to be literal its kind of like saying, while one is sitting in one's swimming costume or 'Y' fronts, depending on ones gender, having your barbeque, some other person sitting in a 'quiet'(see shortly) plane may get a glance of you i.e. invasion of one's privacy. 'Quiet Planes' like the whisssspppppeeeeerrr jet. I have yet to come across this plane that people always talk about, you know the one, slips in through the back door in the middle of the night takes your keys, next day the cars gone, the damn dog didn't even bark. All planes are loud on take-off/landing when they fly over your house its just that some are very loud. Now all I will say is that from a common sense point of view noboby wants to live anywhere near spitting distance from an airport, do a survey I will guarantee 80% plus - no way. (Spitting distance is a phrase)

BHDflyer

3rd Apr 2007, 11:02

I saw that the viewing gallery was closed on Friday, after playing that crane and teddybear machine beside the entrance (rip off those things!!!) Is lounge 17 supposed to be that business lounge that the airport advertises?:confused:

hushkit77

3rd Apr 2007, 14:16

Gate 22,

I also had to laugh at your comment regarding people looking out the window at your BBQ. Invasion of privacy my arse!! Living under a flight path is no different whatsoever than someone living next to or near a railway line. There is noise for a few seconds and then it is over.
I have no problem with people moaning about BHD and its location but what really gets on my wick is when the moaners still manage to use the airport services when it suites them. Very convenient !!!

richardnei

3rd Apr 2007, 14:17

Yes! The viewing gallery is closed at BFS as Lounge/Gate 17 which is below it is being rebuilt and entended. This work is due to last well into June. Not sure how long the Viewing gallery is going to be closed for.

It's about time that Lounge was refurbished. It hasnt changed since the 80's

Hope this helps

Richard

gate 22

3rd Apr 2007, 15:28

Resident groups in the vicinity of BHD do not fear, you will not have to endure your pain for much longer, as its just a matter of time before the price of land rises to an extent whereby the owners will place an application in for thousands of housing units, light industrial and retail units to be developed on the site, and sell it to a developer to make a nice we profit.

keepitlit

3rd Apr 2007, 21:21

Little birdie told me a new gate and bridge, lounge etc being built for bmi and they may operate out of both airports as soon as march next year.
BFS holding arms open wide I believe the comment was "what ever it takes"
bmi need the late slot and still a big number like BHD for convenience, hope they do use both:O

Rgds

K.I.L.

richardnei

4th Apr 2007, 13:21

Heard this Rumour at the weekend from a BMI Crew member based at BHD! From what I heard they want a separate lounge/gate area designed for BMI/BMI baby.

Could this have something to do with the demolishing of the old BA buildings beside the business centre. This would create additional apron space and the ability of building an additional pier at this side of the terminal.

Anyone now anything more about this?

Brgds

Richard

wingman863

4th Apr 2007, 18:35

If i was BMI I would want a new terminal too. Passengers used 2 BHD would be a bit pissed off at finding themselves in the BFS terminal seeing as its fairly awful. They're not expecting the BFS people to may for it though are they?

gate 22

4th Apr 2007, 18:59

If bmi were to split there services between BFS/BHD (seems unlikely) what way do you think they would operate it. I suppose they could have the LHR based plane inbound first thing to BHD, Belfast based plane BFS to LHR first flight from Belfast out, giving longest possible day in London for NI folk. But do you think it would really work. Would BMI's thinking be to put off an operator for LHR setting up at BFS eg Aer Lingus or a return by BA.

chec tunset

4th Apr 2007, 19:20

Funny how aviation goes in cycles. A few years ago BMI hoofed off to BHD in a huff because BFS was pandering to orange whims. Now having let Easy rule the roost for several years, they want back in? From a pax point of view its a winner because it would be nice to have a london service in BFS with allocated seating but it really sounds more like 'oops landing fee deals are up for renewal, let pretend we're thinking of moving' :hmm:
Maybe it would wake up the sleeping dinosaurs in LTN too before their patch is danced on properly.

gate 22

5th Apr 2007, 06:26

Richardnei mentioned a rumour about the site of the old BA cargo centre, isn't that the proposed site for the new 'east terminal'. Is it cost effective for an airport to have 2 non eu departure terminals. The reason I am asking is that in the old days domestic was seperate from international, whereas now its eu and non eu for obvious reasons. I think the new east terminal was planned to be a kind of business terminal. So from an economical point of view, could you have the likes of Easyjet, Jet2, Bmibaby, Zoom all charter airlines operating out of the 'west terminal', present complex, and Continental, bmi (if they moved all or part of their operations up) and any other business airline that Bfs would attract (Delta, Emirates etc) operate out at a premium from a new east terminal. I mean at present there would only be 1 business flight a day (Continental), but if the new terminal had an adjoining covered carpark, minimum walking distance car-plane, quiet modern equiped business lounge it may win over business folk who find bhd more convient. The thought of not being outside from leaving the house and almost guaranted to be landing at the same airport where the car is parked. Any thoughts!!