BELFAST - 2

[gate 22]

This is my last word on this subject, but after reading on the LCY thread this morning I felt I had to write this. London City is operating under restrictions truly represtative of what an airport which operates in a residential area should do. A part from only small aircraft using it and other restrictions blah, blah, blah, today is a bank holiday and the airport remains closed until 0900 to give locals a lie in. And I think the same thing happens on a Sunday morning were it remains closed until some time late morning. This is a planning restriction which the airport actually obeys no early arrivals permitted to land. Far cry from bhd's policy 'determined to expand beyond all boundaries' and not take on board the rights of locals.

[Maude Charlee]

I'm surprised anyone can even hear aeroplanes over the sound of whinging. House prices go up and suddenly there's NIMBYs everywhere.

[wingman863]

and not take on board the rights of locals

They're a business and specifically what rights are being infringed?

I'm not wholly on the side of the airport but there alwasy has to be compromise. It's when one side seems so inflexible that I start to lose sympathy. The same could be said for both the airport and the residents however in this case. I'm probably going to side with the airport because I like using it and it doesn't annoy me too much in my day to day life.

[Tower Ranger]

Oh, just wait till you hear the outcry when the early morning departures start on Sundays in a couple of weeks!! Thats just from the guys that have to get up and get them airborne!!
But you didn`t hear it from me, alright!!


Gate22, Lcy is pretty exclusively a buisness airport, so not much call for early flights Sundays or Bank Holidays. There are only a couple of inbounds of BHD before 10.30 on any given Sunday by which time most of the locals should be up picketing the Bangor road to highlight noise pollution or maybe even Translink as that damn railway line is way too close to the houses. I`m sure all those who complain about the noise would gladly accept a policy of one vehicle per household for themselves to cut down on noise in their area! Yeah, thought so!

[BHDflyer]

anybody heard anything more regarding bmi? A move of half of the flights to bfs might work because, although bmi in the past were unsuccessful with 5 flights from bfs and 8 from bhd before march 2003, this would mean that the whole heathrow operation from Belfast would have 5 from each airport. In the past bmi tried to have the eight flights from bhd, plus an additional 4 or 5 form bfs, which was simply too many flights. I know some might say there was once 14 flights a day with BA and BMI, but after BA axed people lost alot of interest in flying to Heathrow and they went for easyjet who were expanding on their london routes at the time. But now, people living in the 5 counties in NI other than county Down are starting to wake up and realise that they are actually having to travel further to get to bhd, get up earlier, sit in pain in the backside traffic and therefore want flights to be put back at bfs.

[Danmadole]

Has anyone any idea of how well or otherwise Wizz bookings are holding up? They have done next to no advertising in NI :confused: so I suspect they must be concentrating on the Polish market. When do flights actually start?

[Charlie Roy]

Danmadole

Pity to hear about the lack of advertising :ugh:

Katowice - Belfast 28 May
Warsaw - Belfast 21 July

[BHDflyer]

Does anyone know why bmi seem to have 2 early morning departures within 45 of each other from BHD to LHR?

06:30 and 07:10, that means two airbuses nightstopping (must be getting crowded up there!)

Seems unusual:confused:. It may be increases in business pax but maybe I'm wrong?

[richardnei]

Yes! 2 Early Morning departures from BHD.

06:30 - A319
07:10 - A320

I've heard the loads on the 06:30 departure are not great but the 07:10 is always full. 06:30 may be to early for most business pax.

I think this is operating throughout the Summer.

Brgds

Richard

[hushkit77]

I believe its a slot saver for LHR also.

[CaptJ]

As far as I can see this is not a slot-saver as there are no extra flights involved.

The two early flights is a result of the previously last flight out now overnighting.

There were 8 flights a day, and there are still 8 flights a day.

[ESCNI]

I see the first of our Polish routes has opened today (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/article2481632.ece).

:)

[gate 22]

Read on a thread some where about an annoucement with Easyjet this week in Brussels - possible base being set-up (rumour). If in deed this was the case, Belfast would be in a strong position to be served from here.

[chec tunset]

BFS is no more likely to get a BRU than it is to get a MAD, BUD or anywhere else. No pending orange route announcements for BFS. They're too busy with their European trainset.

[Count von Altibar]

bmi works in mysterious ways believe me! These strange flight timings exist throughout a number of destinations on their timetable and are nearly always due to slot-saving. Don't think it's some strategic move to increase market-share on their currently most profitable route.

[gate 22]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6590137.stm

rail link!! do you think it will actually happen, would it be popular? I think it will be rejected due to cost.

[gate 22]

Things are quiet at BFS, have to write something to keep Belfast on main page, no rumours anybody out there. Of course things are looking up at Bhd with all airports on mainland Scotland now covered with Dundee being added, Wick and Prestwick are the only ones left. Maybe Jet 2 will set up a base at Prestwick to serve west Scotland, very popular for Northern Ireland folk. There has been talk of Jet 2 increasing frequency on Blk to 3 on M,W,F. What about charters, today there are 2 Mytravels to the sun, is this the case this year as per last 2 Mytravel A320 1 Sun-Fri, and 1 all week (as per last year) one FCA A320 all week. I know there is a BD on Saturday to Las Palmas, starting late May does it remain the rest of week. BD apparently are doing Verona on a Saturday from Bhd. Would I be right in saying the 4 or 5 times Thursday flight BHD/Malaga operated last year, 'w' pattern from Bfs is not operating this summer. Come on folk waken-up some good old craic on aviation in NI is missing. Are you not fed up reading about Cardiff!!!!!

[Kestrel_909]

MyT's schedule must kick off today, two A320s operating to/from BFS this afternoon. The FCA A320 arrived in lastnight and has started services today.

Wizz start their first service at the end of this month, the other in July. easyJet's Krakow service started last week.

[Belboy]

The Krakow route seems to have surpassed all expectations with load facotor in the 90s, early days, but still good as most of the workers from Poland must have been using Dublin to travel to and from their homes previously.

I would expect that Wizz may pick up even more of the Polish traffic as they would be better known at the Polish end.

[gate 22]

Jet2 have 3 BFS based aircraft tomorrow, Prague, Palma and Bergamo on departures board for first thing tomorrow morning, in fact between 0705 and 0830 there are 5 LS departures. Well at least all weekend there must be 3 aircraft based if not during the week from now on, can anyone confirm

[bfsalphaone]

hello all

I’ve been registered for a while here, but never got around to posting something.

gate 22, Jet2 currently have 3 base aircraft. There is 2 B733: G-CELY & G-CELE, along with a leased Futura B734 EC-JNU.

G-CELE has been operating from elsewhere over the past week or two, when there is only the one aircraft needed in BFS.

EC-JNU is operating on the MJV, AGP, and some PMI routes, until apparently an American registered Futura arrives, which there is still no sign of.

The other early morning Jet2 flights are English based aircraft from BLK & LBA.

[BHDflyer]

Has anyone heard anything about the bmi rumour?

[Danmadole]

Tell us what the rumour is and I'll tell you if I've heard anything about it....:p

[Charlie Roy]

The Krakow route seems to have surpassed all expectations with load facotor in the 90s ...I would expect that Wizz may pick up even more of the Polish traffic as they would be better known at the Polish end.

There's definitely room for both Easyjet and Wizz. While Easyjet fly to Krakow a more touristic city, Wizz are flying to Katowice a larger city with a much greater catchment area.

We can also expect the Warsaw route to be a HUGE success :ok:

[EI-BUD]

I think the comment above that Easyjet will not expand BFS destinations or frequencies in the coming year, They are operating the based(5 aircraft I believe?) and they work to capacity so it is highly unlikely that anything significant will happen until the Airbus is based at BFS for them. There is no definite guide on this ( if anyone knows different let me know!), However, I do believe the last 319s that will arrive to replace 737s about 2009 and Luton will be the last airport to get the replacements as There is a 737 easy maintenance facility there...

Pity really... we will have to wait and see what happens, I think we will be looking to Jet 2 for new routes and Maybe AerLingus ..:D

[Count von Altibar]

Don't you mean Ryanair? I see that they have agreed to new conditions on their takeover bid which have been submitted to the EU. Any new Aer Lingus base will be elsewhere in the UK from what I hear. I think Easy have pretty much established control at BFS by now.
Regards, The Count

[en2r]

The Count
The Ryanair bid for Aer Lingus is Dead. The only question now is how MOL will get rid of his shareholding in Aer Lingus without getting burnt financially

[gate 22]

I thought zoom airlines was an all 767 operation, however this morning a zoom 757 flew over head on finals for BFS, yesterday the Vancouver was a 767. The 757 was from Toronto. I noticed on ceefax a flight in from Glasgow at around 1300 today, it was zoom. Is that the return to Toronto or maybe Halifax/Toronto, ie did that morning Toronto flight head off to Glasgow and then back to BFS at lunch time.

[Kestrel_909]

Yep, the 757 routed YYZ-BFS-GLA-BFS-YYZ, C-GTSN. Not sure if it's to be a regular or whether it was a one off. Also an MyT A330 positioned in from Glasgow to operate the flight to Faro and back, and will be positioning back to Glasgow in the early hours.

[Straightahead]

Kestrel
Myt to Fao on the A330 was a split load with Gla,will happen next Sun as well then done by Excel airways on behalf of Myt.Happy spotting

[SKY's4ME]

Replying to a message before it is now rumoured that BFS will change to the Bus in 2008 and an anouncment will be made towards the end of this year. Then let the expansion begin great possibilities could see BFS grow to an ezy fleet size as BRS. 10+ a/c. However this could be accelerated but is unliklely as a/c deleveries will slow down over the next 12 months. And Harrison has announced a doubling of capacity out of Germany!

[gate 22]

'And Harrison has announced a doubling of capacity out of Germany'- SKY's4ME, Where did you read this?. Interesting to note that although BFS has only 5 Easyjets based, there are a lot operating through BFS, 1x4 GLA, 1x4 EDI, 1x6/7 LPL, 1x5 LGW, 3/4 flights per week from Berlin. With this shear high volume of traffic not forgeting the fact that there are probably more rotations per aircraft from BFS as the routes are shorter with respect to London, Belfast must not be far behind Bristol as it stands at the moment.
P.S. Inverness is still shown as operating from BFS in booking machine and on route map!!!!!

[richardnei]

I think easyjet operate 45 flights a day from BFS. Most of them by non-based A/C.

[SKY's4ME]

Sorry for not being more acurate before but I was commenting on the shear number of a/c based at BRS. Of course EZY already operate an impressive show at BFS but this could double with a larger a/c fleet based at BFS which can only happen with the arrival of the airbus and or other possibilities such as NCL changing to airbus allowing their 7 737's a/c to go elsewhere?
Harrisons comments were made at a recent press day at SXF celebrating the arrival of Easy's 100th A319.

Pity about INV it is a great route!!

[chec tunset]

Dunno where you got your airbus rumour from Sky but its 2 years adrift. BFS doesn't need airbuses to double in size. If NCL or LTN goes bus there will be plenty of Boeings going spare. Easy may have a long term plan to double in size but unfortunately that isn't likely to work very well when other operators get their first...which is happening now.

[SKY's4ME]

CT
Some how I believe a company the size of Easy are not that worried about ''the other operators'' out of BFS i.e Jet 2 and bmi baby. I am afraid these companies are only bidding their time until ryanair and Easy Jet decide enough is enough.
Both operate old antique a/c and are not able to keep pace with the likes of EasyJet and will struggle as time goes on. I say to them make the most of things while you can!

[omoko joe]

Jet2 in BFS make their money on their 7 year mail contract. Playing with scheduled services from BFS is an added bonus for them and somehow I don't think they really give a monkies what Easyjet are up to. Then there's Wizzair..who have basically stitched up the Polish market ex BFS under Easy's nose. The Easy KRK route was an afterthought in response to Wizz's plan being leaked. In the same vain, the IBZ was launched with a poor once a week schedule after Jet2 had already gone ahead. What Easyjet need is a commercial department with some regional focus. They are the best paid commercial bods in the industry..time they worked a bit harder. BMI baby are about to announce a major fleet replacement too so at best it is foolish to discount any competitor. If you want proof of that then have a look a LPL where Ryanair nipped in under Easy's nose. The same happened at EMA and it's a surprise that they didn't do the same in BFS because they talked about it. Easyjet is a major local employer and it would be great to see Buses and expansion plans but its widely known amongst the local staff that it isn't happening. Lets hope they change their minds soon.

[gate 22]

Forgive for being very rusty on freight movements at BFS, but would I be right in saying that there are two large airbuses (A300) one TNT the other one channel express, a 146 and a couple of props based at BFS, I note these at a glance as I collect my car from the long stay. Then do Jet 2 use 2 of their 737's for post/freight. Does anyone have info on regular routes times etc, at a guess Edinburgh, East Midlands, Brussels, Stansted, Bristol. I have seen one of the Airbuses departing around 20.00 regularly over the years what time do they get back in at. There is quite a presence of aircraft, but one only ever sees them on the ground as obviously they operate in the small hours. Are there any regular freighters going across the pond.

[bfsalphaone]

gate 22,

you would be right on the two A300s, TNT & DHL both operate the A300.

the TNT departs every night Mon-Fri at 2030 to EMA and onwards to LGG, and the DHL shortly after about 2050 to EMA. TNT arrives back in at 0615 from EMA, and the DHL about the same.

there is also a B767-200 operated by Star Air (Maersk Air) on behalf of UPS, it departs at 2010 to EMA and then to CGN. the UPS arrives back in 0535 from EMA.

Jet2 operate the Royal Mail twice a night Mon-Fri to EMA using a quick change B733, the first departure is 1920, the second 2240. the aircraft arrives back in at 0205 from EMA, then overnight the seats are reinstalled ready for the early passenger flight.

Titan also operate for the Royal Mail to STN twice a night Mon-Fri using a quick change BAe146, first departure 2245, the second 0150.

Atlantic Airlines operate the Lockheed Electra, but i'm not sure of the routes or times they operate.

on the odd occasion you might find a BAe ATP of Magic Bird or Atlantic Air sitting on the Freight Apron

and before emerald airways lost their AOC, the HS748 operated to LPL twice sometimes three times a night for Securicor and Royal Mail.

as for freighters departing across the pond, there have been a number of B747-200 mvts recently operated by Klitta Air to YYZ, taking out aircraft engines from Shorts. prior to these mvts Vega Airlines operated many adhoc charters using the AN12 to YYZ, also taking the engines from Shorts.


anyway thats all i can think of for now

bfsalphaone

[gate 22]

bfsalphaone,

Thanks very much for that info about what goes on in the background at BFS.

[garethm872]

does anyone know where i could find out what time the My Travel A330 to faro is due at BFS this Sunday. thanks, gary

[bfsalphaone]

the MYT A330 is due in from GLA at 1535, and then depart for FAO at 1635

it also returns from FAO in the early hours of the morning, then on to GLA



bfsalphaone

[garethm872]

thanks very much bfsalphaone

[gate 22]

So we are back to the usual 2 steps forward then 1 step back situation at BFS. Last autumn was very rosey with Jet 2 expanding for this summer along with the introduction of whizz etc now the summer has barely started and Jet 2 have started cutting back. Meanwhile Easyjet have been dragging their heals and curtailing expansion at BFS, and with no airlines ceasing on this opportunity and introducing new services, it looks like the expansion is all happening at BHD now. In fact from Christmas the only positive announcement for BFS has been Zoom, correct me if I am wrong. I can never understand why AF-cdg and KL-ams are not operating to any of the Belfast airports despite operating to almost the whole of the UK (these are an alternative to LHR which should have been snapped up long ago). What about Brussels, Dubia all possible from Belfast.

[Count von Altibar]

I agree that BFS needs to seek more flights that connect to the bigger hubs. Emirates to Dubai, KLM to Amsterdam, BA to Heathrow etc.

[BHDflyer]

flywhoosh will start flights from BHD to Dundee -

[bfsalphaone]

if anyone wants to see a DC10 at Aldergrove tonight, there is one on its way from EGNV (Durham Tees Valley) due to land at Aldergrove at 2125 local time

anybody any ideas what or who it is operating for?


bfsalphaone

[BFS/BHD]

More than likely a military charter.

[gate 22]

Over 5000 more passengers used LHR - Aberdeen than Belfast as the numbers continue to slide at BHD. Its time BD wised up and moved their operation to where people actually want to use ie BFS. There are now nearly as many folk use LGW compared to LHR from Belfast as a whole. When compared to similar markets eg Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen - LHR is carrying in some cases over 100% more passengers from these airports compared to LGW ( So the potential is there at Belfast but not being utilised). More than 100% more passengers used BFS instead of BHD to fly to LGW last month (LGW-BHD capacity increased by BE on this route last month 15% drop in passengers-12% rise at BFS). STN to BHD only 8500 last month-poor - 13000+ LDY-STN same number of flights (slightly larger aircraft). Its time BD got their act together and maximised their operation out of Belfast.

[BCALBOY]

Firstly ,have to disagree with comment from GATE22 that LHR-ABZ,EDI.GLA are similar markets to BFS/BHD. The Scottish routes have always carried a much higher proportion of business travellers with the price sensitive travellers using others modes Train, Coach,Car.
With the advent of low-cost , their main source of new travellers on Scottish routes has been former surface travellers.
On BFS/BHD their main source of traffic is those who previously used LHR.
Therefore LHR-BHD has been harder hit than LHR-Scotland.

Easyjet traffic grew 12% (=3500 pax ) on BFS/LGW but declined 7% on LTN(= 2300 pax) and 3% ( =1100 pax ) on STN , so overall their BFS/LON traffic ex BFS is ths same as last year .

LHR/BHD was down 14% ( 8000 pax) ....LHR/GLA BA/BD was also down 8%(9000 pax ) and LHR/EDI BA/BD down 6% ( 7000 pax ) , so their are other factors e.g. increased security congestion @ LHR.

AB operated BHD/STN with 8500 pax which I don-t think they did last APR. Scotair/Air France optd BHD/LCY with 900 pas both of which may have hit BD/BE as BHD operators more than EZY.

If pax are switching to BFS because its more convenient than BHD they are having to use LTN/STN/LGW ilo LHR which would be less convenient for a lot of others.Also for many LON originating ( esp high yield business travellers BHD is more convenient ).

Finally BD have over the last 18mths being targeting yield rather than volume....retiring 321s ( for which BFS was a prime route with all 8 svces at one time on 321) and replacing with lower capac 319/320.
They are therefore selling fewer cheap seats ,sacrificing volume for higher yields and probably higher profit.
With the recent increases in APD taxes BD prices may have gone up while Easy may be trimming margins tro keep prices loer ( Easy have recently said they are having difficulty charging the prices they would like i.e they are having to reduce their basis price so that when the increased taxes are added the total price doesnt hit volume too much. )

I don-t think BMI moving to BFS would have any significant effect on their traffic ...there are loads of other factors in play.
If they could get a super deal with BFS and charge lower prices and maintain margins , maybe !:)

[gate 22]

How come in 2000 before the BD move figures for the regions to LHR were (2006 in brackets) figures are approx Bfs - 1,168,000, (665,000) Edi -1,700,000 (1,495,000) Gla - 1,500,000 (1,284,000), how come Belfast is so different from the other regions, I would say very similar, in fact as there are no trains buses from belfast/london there would be higher proportion of fliers. So you would say that the massive decline only experienced at belfast is Easyjets fault, and that security congestion at Lhr would ironically put belfast passengers off and not scottish. BFS london flights remain stable as more direct options is taking any growth away from London, while BHD is constantly falling away. (As are most other options from BHD)

[Straightahead]

If you consider 3-4 years ago BFS had only one direct link to the outside world and that was KLM to AMS.To get anywhere from BFS you had to go to LHR.Now with so many direct options from BFS there is no need to go to LHR.This is probably why pax figures are down on BFS-LHR hence the downsize in aircraft.

[Belboy]

The increased range of destinations may well be a contributory factor for the decrease in the LHR traffic, but there are many others, not least of which are the fares charged by bmi. The shorter hours at the city also have an impact, I regularly have to return via BFS as the last flight to BHD doesn't suit my schedule, and I have met others who have to do the same.
It is only a matter of time before someone else provides competition on the only route in the bmi network that does not have competition, and I look forward to it.

[kwoody]

Hi,

Who are the charter operators this summer? MyTravel and First choice again?

Thanks

[gate 22]

Due to still poor figures NCL-BHD despite increase in flights, do you think that BE may shift this operation to Durham, and give up competition with EZY, as they have done at BRS/LPL. I think they had 3 flights per day NCL/BHD for most of April (2800 approx passengers), Leeds/bhd 3 flights per day (6500 approx) however Doncaster has 2 per day (2800 approx) probably higher yield (no competition). Maybe Durham is too close to Doncaster. GLA/EDI routes seem to be holding their own against EZY.

[wingman863]

I'm on the edinburgh routes with flybe quite regularly. Use sleazyjet occasionally too and their flights are nearly always full. Flybe is rarely more than half full and added to this, it's a much smaller aircraft that they use. I havn't seen the figures but it'd be a miracle if they're making much of a profit.

[Wellington Bomber]

Gate 22

Durham to Doncaster is about 2 hours traffic permiting. hardly too close

[myairways]

Hello There,
Belfast Will Be Operated By Myt And Fca As Per Normal And Also Thomas Cook Airlines Will Do Selected Flight Out Of There Belfast Brochure From June To September The Aircraft Will Be Brought Over From England Or Subed To Fca, Myt. There Will Also Be Thomsonfly Will Be Doing There Routes However I Think They Have Added More Flights For This Year.

[EI-BUD]

Last Thursday I was driving away from BFS and on approach was a 747 aircraft, I couldnt work out what the airline was or if it was Freighter or passenger. I also couldnt get near the pc to check where the arrival was.

It was on approach at about 1315 on Thursday afternoon. Does anyone know where it was from and what airline?

In addition, I heard that on Sunday (tomorrow ) that there is a very signifificant Fire drill being carried out that will try to simulate a plane crash and be a near to real life situation for the firecrew at the airport.
Should be interesting!

Ei-bud

[kwoody]

Thanks myairways. EI-BUD do you know what time this fire drill will be happening at?

[richardnei]

The 747 was Kilitta Air operating a cargo flight from BFS-YYZ. Has been operating every couple of weeks over the pass few months. Always routes AMS/BFS/YYZ.

The Emergency Drill on Sunday will take place from about 10:00. I think the crash is at 10:45.

[BFS/BHD]

I believe there is also a fire drill happening at BHD tomorrow.

[spanishflea]

The drill is involving a flight from BHD to LDY diverting into BFS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/6668555.stm

[gate 22]

What do folk think are the chances of Belfast becoming the 1st UK base for Aer Lingus.
Personally I think that they would be quite high
I heard they are initially basing 3 airbuses at this new base.
1. LONDON HEATHROW - It would take one of these all day to operate back and forward to LHR plus one other aircraft for a rotation if say they were to have 6 per day. This route is a winner, would say its already making BD nervious about there Belfast Heathrow link (rumours of talk with BFS). Aer Lingus have experience of this exact route/competition at Dublin.
2. With so many east european workers in the whole of Ireland the North is greatly under represented in relation to options with thousands from Hungary, Portugal, Poland, Latvia etc etc a couple of flights a week to each key city would easily use up another airbus.
3. Belfast is still lacking a few key west european cities eg Frankfurt, Brussels, Copenhagen etc this would keep the other airbus busy.
4. Long haul future development. With Aer Lingus considering cities in the far east, what about some flights originating in Belfast and routing through Dublin to Dubai/Hong Kong/ Austrailia.
People tend to rule Belfast out when Bristol/ Birmingham/Glasgow are mentioned but taking into consideration some areas in the Republic which would find Belfast handier than Dublin you are talking about a catchment of not far of 2 million. In fact BFS/BHD combined traffic is around 7.1 million.

[en2r]

I heard they are initially basing 3 airbuses at this new base.
No there will only be 2 new A320s for the new base.

1. LONDON HEATHROW - It would take one of these all day to operate back and forward to LHR plus one other aircraft for a rotation if say they were to have 6 per day. This route is a winner, would say its already making BD nervious about there Belfast Heathrow link (rumours of talk with BFS). Aer Lingus have experience of this exact route/competition at Dublin.
LHR is key. A BFS base will almost definitely not be set up if the can't get a codeshare with BA for LHR. However there is the small problem of slots. I heard before that they have slots leased out, so perhaps these could be used, or a rotation dropped from the underperforming Shannon route. 6 flights per day is highly unlikely, they simply would not be able to get their hands on that many slots. However they would need to get the agreement of the Irish Government for any change in use of the slots.

Personally I'd tip BHX for the new base. It has a lot less competition than BFS and a much better and more affluent catchment area. They could operate routes to Madrid, Berlin, Venice, Vienna etc. where there are currently no competitors as well as operating the flights to Dublin and Cork which are currently operated by Dublin/Cork based aircraft. Lots of Northern Ireland travellers travel via Dublin anyway (over 1 million per year according to Wikipedia), so if they just advertised more in the North they could probably attract more people to travel via Dublin without actually setting up a base in Belfast.

[gate 22]

Well if only 2 aircraft are to be based at this airport then that's better news from a Belfast point of view. Two aircraft considering Lhr would be utilised to their full potential. Any gaps at Belfast will be used eventually eg when EZY get more aircraft or J2/baby/BE expand, this will take away the need to travel to Dub, so EI could come in now and clean-up.

[Tower Ranger]

" Come in now and clean up "

I must admit you do cheer me up no end. There is already so much competition on London routes that it would be a bit of a gamble to start another one.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Right. I see.

You can currently fly to or from Stansted (9 times a day), Luton (5 times a day) or (6 times a day) Gatwick with easyjet at an aveage ticket price of £43.

Thats 9+5+6=20 * A319's with 156 seats = 3,120 seats into AND out of Northern Ireland to London ALONE. Not to mention Bristol, Newcastle, Liverpool or the Scottish Airports...


Discuss: A business plan that will yield a decent profit from offering an airline seat out of BFS to London.

That would be a laugh to read.

WWW

[flyingbug]

WWW

I think the point is, they are not talking about flying from Belfast to Luton, Stansted or Gatwick, but to LONDON LHR.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I get that.

But to whom is LHR such a boon?

Handy for the West End and a night In Town. Despite the £45 taxi fare or the £22 rail ticket.

Otherwise anyone wanting to go to London for business or pleasure is better off tackling it from them South, East or West (Gatwick, Luton, Stansted).

Thiefrow is best enjoyed as a Long Haul connector.


WWW

[gate 22]

Come in and clean up was a suggestion that EI could adopt routes not already operated from NI eg Gdansk, Riga, Lisbon, Budapest, Brussels, Frankfurt etc, maybe not all daily but certainly a couple of days a week. As for LHR BD have taken advantage of no competition with over inflated prices. I know a guy who recently travelled to Vancouver, Dub-Lhr (EI) then onto Van, it was over £200 cheaper than BHD-LHR then Van, this guy lived on the north side of Belfast.
Stn-Bfs (5) Stn-Bhd (2) Lgw-Bfs (5) Lgw-Bhd (5)
People seem to underestimate the traffic from Belfast on the domestic front, its not far behind Gla/Edi when you combine both Belfast Airports, these services have been operating successfully for years only Lhr has declined over the past 6 years.

[Unionjet28]

en2r,

Where is the source that EI's SNN route is underperforming? It's been going long enough, I wouldnt have thought that was the case? Things got difficult during Easyjet's short tenure at SNN, but that has obviously since come to an end. Loads always seem strong, fare levels generally similar to DUB.

[en2r]

During the extremely busy April month which included the whole of Easter the route had a load factor of 70%. That compares to a load factor of 78% for Cork. During the quieter months that often slips down into the 60s. While this is not that bad, when you consider how valuable the Heathrow slots are, on one of the busiest months of the year it should be getting better than 70%. Perhaps Shannon should go down to 3 times daily all year around, which would allow an extra Dublin rotation or perhaps a Belfast rotation.

[omoko joe]

Which Loco is planning the BFS-MAD? The logical case would've been orangejet but I heard that wasn't the case. Anybody got some info on this one?

[gate 22]

Where did you here the rumour about Madrid?????

[Unionjet28]

en2r,

Ah, ok you mean underperforming as compared with ORK. EI really have a number of options if they wished to launch BFS flights. They could scrap the early LHR-SNN (EI371) and late SNN-LHR EI384 (which operate during the summer sched), which always seems to have quite a few seats free. The other flights are generally quite full.

Of course, we dont know the Yield, but im guessing with Ryanair's presence at SNN (Although to London, its a similar amount of flights as from ORK) it must get "interesting" at times. None the less, the schedule has been the same at SNN for years now, so it must be making at least some money, otherwise I would imagine Mr Walsh would have swung the axe quite some time ago when he was still at the helm.

DUB also has 14 rotations per day, and I'll bet not all of those go full either, so a few slots could be freed there, perhaps making more use of the A321 (or even 330) on the remaining flights.

Lastly, they could chop a ORK flight. (I await the roaring from Leeside...;)...... as we all know, ORK is the centre of the known Universe :rolleyes:)

Seriously though, a reduction in the ORK schedule is probably the least likely outcome.

Also, EI have one slot pair at LHR that is currently leased out to another carrier, so there is quite some flexibility for BFS ops in Aer Lingus' slot pool.

[gate 22]

Jet2 to announce BFS/LAS PALMAS starting October 07, 757 I think 235 (passengers) 1 or 2 flights per week initially Tues/Saturdays, if its a 757, would it be Bfs based or LPA. Source Belfast Telegraph.

[BFS/BHD]

This is good news, espicially for those NI fans looking to get out Gran canaria.

[bfsalphaone]

gate 22,
jet2 planned to have a 757 based during the summer this year and then it had to be put back to the winter, so any new routes to the Canary Islands hopefully will be operated by the base 757.

also has anyone seen the new jet2 ticket desk, beside the servisair desk? from what i saw in a flying visit recently the new signs had a couple of new routes: Chambéry & Arrecife.

anybody got more info?


bfsalphaone

[gate 22]

Good on jet 2, some big announcement waiting in the wings!!!, its about time to, no more waiting on EZY to get a spare plane. With EI possibly starting in Feb and jet2 's anticiped announcement the overall dominance at Bfs with EZY may be coming to an end this winter.

[gate 22]

Tenerife/Las Palmas winter flights now available jet2, both flights BFS based

[omoko joe]

Not sure who's in the frame for Mad. All I know is that Easyjet isn't which is strange as they have the base there. That's the only way they could do it without a W or another airframe in BFS.....which is not on the cards. My money's on Jet2. They seem to be the only ones interested in BFS these days

[bfsalphaone]

Did anyone see the American Airlines B757 at BFS on Monday 21st? It was a diversion from Shannon originated from Chicago, it diverted in because of fog at Shannon. Dublin couldn’t take them so they landed in Belfast with a near fuel critical situation. The aircraft refuelled and when the weather cleared up, they returned back to Shannon.

I also heard that Delta have been looking at airport and ground services at BFS recently, in particular looking at Catering. Their plans at the min are to start flights early 2008.


bfsalphaone

[EI-BUD]

As LDY is closing as at Midnight there is very little information around at the moment about it .

Loganair are moving their GLA & DUB fligths to BFS from 0740 tomorrow morning. So BFS ppl expect some SF3 in and out and a return (albeit temporary) to the BA colours!!!

EI-BUD

[gate 22]

What sort of limit is there for transatlantic flights from BFS. Republic of Ireland pop approx. 4 million, Delta, air canada, continental , aer lingus, american, continental operate in some cases muliple flights per day to several US/Canadian cities. Northern Ireland, not far of 2 million, tourism not as lucrative as down south, but rising, Irelands No 1 attraction Giants Causeway, surely BFS could have 2 or 3 operators with regular flights to various US cities. Even if they were to route through Shannon. I read on the shannon thread that some flights are operating 30%-45% full. If these originated in Belfast, they would be near full.

[en2r]

Republic has population of 4.2 million, North has 1.7 million, Republic's population is approximately 2.5 times that of North (source Wikipedia). Belfast probably still hasn't recovered from all the bad press the troubles brought. The APD probably hasn't helped either. The Republic also has a far more affluent population, the GDP per capita of the Republic is more than double that of the North (again from Wikipedia), so I suppose people from the south are more able to afford trips to the US. Also Dublin is far more centrally located for the whole island of Ireland than Belfast. As for the loss making services at Shannon, most of them are now being axed now that the Shannon stopover is finally ending. Just this week 3 airlines have announced that they are pulling their Shannon routes to concentrate on their routes from Dublin.

[NWSRG]

Not convinced about your GDP assumptions...and even if there is a gap, that will begin to close quickly now. BFS has a strong catchment area into the RoI now...if you live in Monaghan, Louth, Donegal, Sligo etc. then it would be 50/50 whether you would choose DUB or BFS. Add in the fact that BFS is a much easier airport to fly from (DUB is overcrowded not to mention downright dowdy), and it's not hard to see how another transatlantic route or two could thrive...CO to Newark is reportedly doing very well, and DL to ATL would do well me thinks. Also Canada has a large ex-NI population...maybe an AC 787 once or twice a week before too long?

[Cyrano]

Surprised no-one mentioned this, from Wednesday's Irish News apparently:
Aer Lingus may take off from Belfast International
Aer Lingus could be about to start flying from Belfast International Airport (BIA). Executives from the Dublin-based airline are meeting BIA officials today to talk over a deal that would see Aer Lingus base three aircraft in Belfast, flying 15 new routes.
I don't have access to the full article but have reason to believe the paper were at least correct about the meeting taking place.

[gate 22]

Aer Lingus may take off from Belfast International
Aer Lingus could be about to start flying from Belfast International Airport (BIA). Executives from the Dublin-based airline are meeting BIA officials today to talk over a deal that would see Aer Lingus base three aircraft in Belfast, flying 15 new routes.

If this was to be true then the phrase 'come in and clean up' would be well expressed here. Maybe this is where the Madrid rumour is coming from, as one of the 15 routes. I wonder if any of those would be across the pond. At long last BFS is inches away from a LHR operation. If this happens I will have nothing more to say on local aviation and may retire.

[frequentflyer2]

The BHD curfew appears to have claimed another plane load of victims tonight.
A quick look at the arrivals page of the airport's website showed the last Flybe service from Manchester has been diverted to BFS where it's due to land at 23.00.
Another victory for the unholy alliance between the 'North Downies' and the 'Lower Newtownards/Albertbridge Roadies'.
To be honest I don't really understand why it was necessary. I can clearly remember landing later than this at BHD in a delayed Flybe Dash 8 - 400.
Tonight's delay must have been so frustrating for the passengers. Firstly, their flight took off from Manchester around two hours late.
Then they found they were going to land a good 20 miles from their original destination.
This must have inconvenienced not only them but friends and relatives waiting to collect them.
It must have been particularly irritating for people who had to collect their cars from BHD but perhaps lived on the north side of the city.
It really is a farce. All this inconvenience just so the objectors don't hear one solitary aircraft for approximately 30 seconds as it passes overhead.
It's time this was sorted out once and for all.
The only diversions should be for weather and technical reasons.

[True Blue]

Why should it be sorted for the bebefit of the airlines? All have known for years now what the RULES are, both airlines and pax. So if they want to have flights arriving so close to the curfew period, bad luck. BMI complain about this, but they knew about the rules befoere they moved from Bfs. Why is it so important now? Flybe knew the rules before they decided to expand there. If they want to operate 24 hrs, then there is a 24 hr airport up the road. How many airports with extended opening hours does a population of about 1.6m need?

True Blue

[nav3]

True Blue.........unfortunately it is all about politics but I do agree with your sentiments about Bmi kicking up a fuss...yes, if they want to burn the candle at both ends and live dangerously then they have to take the rough with the smooth IMHO !

[True Blue]

I had a quick look at the Caa stats for last month and noticed that Baby had quite an increase in pax on the Bfs -Man route, if memory serves me right about 41% up. Any views on why? They carried only slightly less than Flybe who about up to 9 flights per day.

True Blue

[gate 22]

I suppose last year there were 3 airlines flying Belfast-BHX, Belfast-MAN with 2 of those flying out of BHD hence the higher figures. It will be interesting to see what happens with Cardiff, I can't see WW & BE both operating for too long together on this one.

[Straightahead]

It is quite strange how 2 Flybe aircraft arrived home on Thursday night well after the curfew.One again was the Manchester flight at about 2340.The Gatwick flight made it home about 2300.So different standards being set,can stay open when it suits.Any aircraft well after the curfew should be diverted to BFS.

[gate 22]

May figures for BFS should be interesting with J2 & EZY now on Malaga. Basically Malaga figures for BFS have been really poor-Apr 07 - BFS (7948), BOH (7505), BRS (18777), CWL (12542), EDI (12390), Doncaster (6685), LBA (10891) etc. This must be down to the fact that EZY have not been providing enough capacity due to aircraft shortage, Belfast surely should have at least 12000 plus when compared across UK. Does anyone know how the Malaga flights are going this month with both operators. If my observation is correct then Paris/Amsterdam could easily go twice daily, Rome/Berlin daily and lets face it Geneva would fair alright a couple of times a week. EZY need to sort out their BFS operation by supplying extra aircraft or they will pay the price, with respect to other operators taking advantage. Maybe J2 could do a morning Paris flight.

[richardnei]

There' s been a number a diverted flybe flights from BHD over the past week.

From what i can remember, when flybe and bmi ask for a public inquiry to be held about extending the opening hours last year. The outcome was that the opening hour would not be extended, however instead the airport would begin to fine airlines that had delayed flights arriving after the 21:30 deadline.

There seems to be more and more diverted flights from BHD over the past year or so.

[frequentflyer2]

"Why should it be sorted for the benefit of the airlines? All have known for years now what the RULES are, both airlines and pax. So if they want to have flights arriving so close to the curfew period, bad luck. BMI complain about this, but they knew about the rules before they moved from Bfs. Why is it so important now? Flybe knew the rules before they decided to expand there. If they want to operate 24 hrs, then there is a 24 hr airport up the road. How many airports with extended opening hours does a population of about 1.6m need?"




Actually, I'm suggesting it should be sorted out for the benefit of the passengers and I'm not suggesting Flybe are totally blameless in the situation.
However, I'd be interested to know just who decides when a flight can break the curfew and when it cannot.
I live in East Belfast and different rules do seem to apply on different nights.
If the situation cannot be sorted out then surely passengers booking seats on the late flights should be told at the time of reservation any delay could result in a diversion to BFS.
It's not as if any of these flights are particularly cheap. The fare paying passengers deserve better.
I have booked return flights to Manchester with Flybe in July. Both sectors were advertised as £0.00 fares - but the whole thing still cost more than £130 for two people.
The return flight is the last of the day and it will definitely be very inconvenient for us if it's diverted to BFS.

[Wellington Bomber]

Frequentflyer2

Do not use them then!

Do not come on here and start moaning and groaning about someone then use them, in my world you would be called an hypocrite

[frequentflyer2]

I can't really see how it is hypocritical to suggest passengers booking on the later flights should be advised of the possibility of diversion to BFS in the event of a delayed departure.
I'm not 'moaning and groaning' about Flybe per se - I'm just suggesting the fare paying passenger deserves better treatment whatever airline they're travelling on.
When these diversions occur people are genuinely inconvenienced. It's frustrating but understandable if the diversion is safety related but these curfew related diversions add at least an hour to people's journeys home late at night.
Imagine how frustrated someone in Yorshire would feel if they lived in Pudsey or Bradford and were told just before a delayed evening departure for LBA their flight was going to land at Robin Hood International instead just so as the aircraft could not be heard by the residents of Yeadon.

[Wellington Bomber]

Trust me any Yorkshireman would say once bitten twice shy, they do not suffer fools gladly. And Flybe are sailing too close to the wind.

[frequentflyer2]

I know - my immediate close family - mother, sister etc - all live in Yorkshire (Knottingley). But the problem is Mrs. Frequent Flyer and myself live five minutes by taxi from BHD. If we want to go to visit my immediate family we want to fly to Leeds Bradford, Doncaster or at a push Manchester where there are good train connections. Q - who operates all these routes from BHD? A - Flybe. Apart from the bmi service to Heathrow and two flights a day by Air Berlin to Stansted Flybe with its Dash 8 - 400's and ageing Bae 146's really is BHD. The only other option is to trundle up the road to BFS for Jet2 or bmibaby which seems really inconvenient when there's an airport just round the corner.

[gate 22]

What's happeing with BE with regards to delays on the MAN route, the first flight into BHD was cancelled yesterday morning and today. Is it due to staffing problems or poor passenger numbers. The passengers on the first flight seem to be brought in on the 0910 arrival into BHD. There is a MAN via IOM arriving in at 1205 is that a charter, as BE don't do the IOM from BHD. First Edinburgh, 2 and a half hour delay, again appears to be combined with 10.40 arrival into BHD. These delays have been on going on various routes at BHD for a number of weeks now.

[hushkit77]

Its generally a crewing problem.... we are way short. BHD based FOs are as rare as hens teeth for both Q400 and 146 and when the Q4 loses a bunch shortly to train on the E195 I think we will have 5, for 5 aircraft. I hear the E145 is very short of crew too and its doing various trips from BHD, plus its tech a lot these days!!

[cessnarocket]

Just Heard aer lingus to make an announcment regarding there belfast base (new) by the end off the week services due to start 1st nov routes heading into eastern europe and spain off course heathrow is on the cards 6 times daily should made life interesting for bmi and bfs managment part off the deal 2 include an exclusive area for EI

[BFS/BHD]

Excellent stuff! I was aware of the rotations to LHR and that crew are to be looked for from next month. I wonder if there will be any transatlantic stuff?

[chec tunset]

As of Friday at 1700 there had been no decision but it will be no surprise if it does happen. BFS is fertile ground for anybody with a modicum of interest.

[True Blue]

IF the speculation about EI doing Bfs - Lhr IS TRUE, could BD be forced off the route to Lhr completely? Although I have no idea of the answer, these sort of things do happen. BD helped force Ba off the route, now they might feel the pressure themselves.

Also, Flybe do not seem to be having a good time at Bhd. Seems to be a lot of delays and cancellations. Have they bitten off more than they can handle? Any views?

True Blue

[gate 22]

EI rumour or fact???
As for transatlantic possibilities, the guys on the EI thread seem to rule it out, but then again they ruled out BFS as a base altogether. I would still say that if they choose BFS they would, maybe not initially, operate flights across the pond. These may not be non-stop ie via SNN. The majority of Dublin flights non-stop, SNN flights originating at BFS. This gives a bit of extra traffic to SNN transatlantic, and gives Dubliners a direct link to America, no stop-over.
Aer Arran could operate SNN-DUB, on a higher frequency if EI get some ageement with them as is on the cards.
Question, if EI were to choose BFS and they have a feeder agreement with Aer Arran would Aer Arran shift their Cork-Bhd services up the road, share facilities etc.

[Buc Driver]

If EI are coming to BFS, and want their own area, might that explain the building work going on around the viewing gallery area at the moment!

[chec tunset]

the building work was happening anyway and started long before EI had BFS on their shortlist.

[EI-BUD]

Aer Arran could operate SNN-DUB, on a higher frequency if EI get some ageement with them as is on the cards

Aer Arann dont do DUBSNN these days however Ryanair are launching it from November which will be a complete disaster in my opinion. Anyway, as regards if EI come to BFS I couldnt see Aer Arann moving to BFS over BHD.

I would be so glad if EI come to BFS , it would suit me so well. However, now that it's official that FR cant buy EI buy EU say so, I wouldnt be surprised if FR follow EI into any new bases , just as they did at MAD with EZY??

However, I was always surprised that FR never flew to BFS given it overall business with the owner who has a few other airports. And last week when LDY was closed it was surprising that FR did not use BFS as when Weeze closed Eindhoven was used instead.

What does anyone esle think? some comments on the forum suggest that FR went into BRS ahead of a rumour that EI was planning that same thing??

[omoko joe]

I believe Belfast International Airport and the Ryans 'don't get on'. There was much talk last year of harp tails in BFS but it never happened. There would be inevitable duplication of routes and the end result would be no winners. Easyjet let Ryanair run them out of the south. I wonder if they would let them do the same up north?

[Tower Ranger]

EIBUD
I hate to be the bearer of good news but you are going to be very glad!
I can`t say any more than that.

[Thumperdown]

Albert Harrison and FR don't get on - two hard nuts and no give.
EI - 4 BFS based airframes and 10 routes to be announced shortly

[Charlie Roy]

EI - 4 BFS based airframes and 10 routes to be announced shortly

So apart from Heathrow, does anyone know any of the other 9 routes?

[en2r]

EI - 4 BFS based airframes and 10 routes to be announced shortly
They are only basing 3 A320s at the new base, unless they steal one from one of their other bases, but with the intense competition from FR, I very much doubt that. The new base isn't going to start until about February when they will be getting a delivery of new A320s, so I'd say an announcement of where it will be could be some time off yet.

[True Blue]

If EI do come to Bfs, BD could take a real hit on their Lhr route. I have just been checking prices to Lhr ex Bhd. The 6.45am on the 5th. Nov 2007. The cheapest fare is £161 plus tax. I know it is a peak departure, but that is really milking their monopoly position.

True Blue

[True Blue]

So apart from Heathrow, does anyone know any of the other 9 routes?

There was mention of Madrid being looked at by other posters on this thread. Could that be one?

True Blue

[Kestrel_909]

After that True Blue, I just checked DUB-LHR on the same date with bmi and EI.

EI a whopping €57 and bmi €49, both 0640 ish departures. That's around a £5 difference after conversion, and the fares both under £40 including taxes. City more expensive to operate to? Ok, but not by £100+ per passenger.

[gate 22]

Ok whats going on.
1. en2r seems quite certain that nothing is going to happen until February if at all with reference to Belfast. (annoucement not imminent)
2. cessnarocket talks about announcement for the end of this week, with services starting 1st November.
3. Tower Ranger, is playing ones cards close to ones chest but is positive about Belfast
4. I think that most of the rest of us don't actually know anything for certain. However EI are talking to BFS, with BRS out of the frame things are looking good.
What about BHD as an option EI were talking to both Belfast airports.

So the two extremes are en2r (not too positive about BFS) and cessnarocket (very positive about announcement this week) and Tower Ranger in the middle, not revealing too much.

[Straightahead]

Thumperdown
Just to keep you up with the times Albert Harrison has retired from Belfast.Ryanair do not like diverting to BFS as they have no deal in place thus paying full landing and passenger charges.To keep the orange machine,the imminent arrival of the shamrock,jet2 and the tiny baby all happy, i think the harp would cause many problems.

[EI-BUD]

Thanks for that simple explanation, i should have thought of that!

Makes sense..why FR dont use BFS for diversions as in the case of LDY last week

[the former gk]

When Aer Lingus announce their new BFS base I think that it will be a turning point in aviation in Northern Ireland.BFS,the main airfield will again become the major IATA and OAG destination for Northern Ireland and its people.Instead of BHD to LHR and BFS to EWR(the only two IATA routes),Aer lingus as a member of IATA will open up BFS as the destination it was before,and available to worldwide connections.Hope that there will be a transatlantic destination in their announcment too as I predicted six months ago.Anyway"Look up its Aer Lingus".

[aeulad]

Apologies if I have missed something, but is EI at BFS confirmed? Lots of talk about what will happen when EI come to BFS, but I didn't think anything had been announced?:confused:

Regards

Mike

[Count von Altibar]

'Look up it's Aer Lingus'? If I look up the history of Aer Lingus out of BFS it's one of operate a route for a while and then withdraw due to it being economically unviable. I seem to remeber A330s a few times a week to SNN & then across the pond, what happened there then? If EI enter the Northern Ireland market again it will need to be with a very low cost base. They're competing with Easy who have dominance at BFS, I can see the potential for LHR though. Don't forget that EI are the flag carrier for the Republic of Ireland and no matter how much it's nice to pretend it doesn't exist, a lot of people from NI won't choose to use them on that basis alone.

[the former gk]

I think those old days of sectarianism are long gone and decent working class people want to forget the past and move on.True,there are still the few out there who want to cause trouble, but dont forget the people who have lost loved ones on both sides,but we all have to look forward.Aer Lingus are part of the peace process like it or not and part of the divident to make our country work.They are coming to Belfast and investing in our part of the country again.Good on them

[BCALBOY]

Where are the LHR slots coming from ?

EI currently have 22 deps/arrs daily @ LHR fm ORK,DUB,SNN , ...are they going to reduce these services to fund BFS ?

Have read elsewhere that American carriers willing to pay big bucks to
get their hands on slots @ LHR due Open Skies....and EI is one of the big potential sources but opening BFS would make this very difficult.


Are EI scaling back DUB/LHR as they expand LHL and Euro intl fm DUB ?:O

[keepitlit]

How do you know its EI and they are going to LHR along with others.
Im hearing a different carrier going in a different direction!!!!!!!!:oh:

Its called a curved ball:E
RGDs
K.I.L.

[en2r]

Gate 22, I am not being negative about BFS, EI simply do not have 3 or 4 aircraft lying around to start a new base, any new base will be started by new aircraft (or planes displaced by new aircraft). The have one A320 arriving in September/October I think, but thay have already announced 5 new routes from Dublin to fill that one up. There are no other new aircraft arriving this year (bar the A330). I just think people are getting ahead of themselves with comments like "when EI announce their BFS base". Nothing is confirmed yet, and Birmingham and Manchester are still very much in the fray for the new base. I still feel that EI will set up a base somewhere they already operate to. As for longhaul from the new base, dream on! EI are having enough trouble getting enough capacity for new longhaul routes from Dublin, I'd very much doubt there will be any new longhaul routes from anywhere except Dublin for the next 3 or 4 years, until their new longhaul fleet comes on stream. As for LHR slots, they already have one slot leased out to another airline so that could be used, reducing Dub-LHR is very unlikely. Dublin-London is the busiest airroute in Europe and the second busiest airroute in the World. DUB-LHR is by far EI's busiest route, I'd say at the very most 1 rotation could be cut, but I'd say any reduction is unlikely. As for Cork, that has a load factor of nearly 80%, and fares aren't that cheap so I'd say all 5 rotations are safe. Shannon could possibly drop a rotation, but I wouldn't hold my breath. There was some outlandish comment before that there could be up to 6 flights per day to LHR, but thats completely out of the question considering how hard it is to get LHR slots.

[johnrizzo2000]

EI would have a/c to start new routes/new base. New routes have been announced, but its important to remember some routes are operated as summer only routes TLS, ATH etc. 4 A320's, and another A330 are due to be delivered, with both A330's going on expanding the US operations. A new base is definately possible, but i'm not sure it will be BSF. I think 10-15 routes was mentioned, but EI would find it hard to operate 10! I think BHX or MAN seem's more likely

[BHDflyer]

RUMOURS, RUMOURS, AND MORE RUMOURS. Would anybody care to tell me where they have ACTUALLY heard that Aer Lingus would be starting a BFS base? This is to all that said, "I heard Aer Lingus were going to announce a BFS base", WHERE did you REALLY here this?

[James236]

Ok, just to clear up a few things here. Aer Lingus will definitly be establishing a new hub by early 2008 as they previously announced in February:

"Aer Lingus is to spread its wings by establishing its first base outside Ireland. The move is part of an expansion which will establish 15 new European routes.

The airline is planning to tie down the location of its first foreign base in the coming months with a view to the new routes coming on stream in January of next year.

Tickets for the new routes are expected to be offered for sale in October."
Source: Irish Independent - http://www.independent.ie/national-news/foreign-hub-plan-as-aer-lingus-takes-off-54900.html


With regard to the fleet, Aer Lingus will receive delivery of 2 leased A320s from Aercap in December, and its expected that these will be operated from the new hub. Aer Lingus also has 10 A320/A321 options to exercise during 2008, and these will surely be exercised by EI. Dermot Mannion has also said before in previous interviews he intends to acquire 2 A330-200s during 2008, and this will most likely be part of the package offered by Airbus in EI's possible A350XWB order. And regarding long-haul routes from the new base, EI also stated it would be starting 15 new European routes initially, and I think thats key to remember, as it shows that they will be considering long-haul as an option from the new base.

Belfast is not a dead winner, far from it, and anyone on here making claims that BFS will be announced as the new base without any proof to back their claims up is waffling, but all will be known tomorrow I'd say. As great as it would be for EI to choose BFS as it would increase competition there, I can somehow see BHX or MAN being better options, but unlike BFS, BHX and MAN are in close proximity to EMA and LPL, Ryanair bases, and thats a big risk for EI, and this is why BFS is still on the cards.

As for the political aspect of EI choosing BFS as their new hub, I don't think this comes into play, simply for the reason business is business, whether you're a Nationalist or a Unionist, I don't think anyone could give a rats arse as long as the airline offers cheap fares to places where people want to go. I think it would be great to have an all-Ireland airline, but I really doubt anyone would choose between easyJet and Aer Lingus based on them being orange or green, except Ian Paisley.:)

[gate 22]

I have to say that on Sunday I was quite hopeful of Belfast being a base for EI, now however it seems to be Man is the talk of the town. Well I suppose rumours are the food of this forum and we will have to just wait and see how it pans out.

[cessnarocket]

BHDflyer, sorry but i couldn`t possibly reveal my source!!!!!:= wait and see.;)

[gate 22]

cessnarocket,

I hope you are right, what about the 6 returns to LHR, en2r seems to suggest no way.

Gate 22

[MontyP]

Where are they going to park these aircraft and check in all these passengers if Aer Lingus to come north? At night there is only around one free stand and anytime I pass through the check in hall its bunged and barely enough space for what there is at the min! If BFS seriously wants to attract a big airline lets have a semi decent airport and not some re-hashed creation of the eighties. Stick another ten desks in the check-in hall, another 3 stands and a couple of gates and re-plan that international pier then i might believe a story about Aer Lingus, Delta, American Airlines and any other airline coming to BFS. :cool:

[Kestrel_909]

Don't be getting too excited just yet, this week's big announcement from EI is the order for more A330s and A350 WXBs and not about a new base.

[Charlie Roy]

this week's big announcement from EI

this week's first big announcement from EI...

[snipes]

Ok I'll bite.

What day this week will be no. 2?

[gate 22]

I thought the Katowice flight was due in at 0800 today, however it is not showing on the arrivals or departures board, it does operate on Thursdays. Unless it has been and gone by 0810am.

[Straightahead]

:ugh:you are quite right has been rescheduled to arrive at BFS at 2300 this evening and depart at 2330.This was due tech reasons but many people arrived at normal checkin time but went home again.

[Belboy]

Is EI at BHD an option? I would have thought that if LHR is to be one of the suggested destinations that BHD would not be an option. Selling that one to bmi would be a tad difficult, and would probably expedite their return to Antrim. Would operations to eastern Europe be possible from the BHD runway? The restricted hours may also prove problematic for achieving the sort of programme that EI would want, why would an airline such as EI chose the constrained operation when their services would be unconstrained from BFS. But I, like many others, await any announcement that Belfast is to be a base at all. Personally I woulkd like to see it and think that the impact of an EI base at BFS would be a better move for all, particularly the travelling public who are being ripped off on the current LHR service.

[gate 22]

What are the chances of Chambery/salzburg from BFS, as jet 2 announce ski flights next Tuesday.

[Straightahead]

Gate 22
A little flutter on Chambery by Jet2 for the winter.
Happy sking

[snipes]

Charlie Roy

Quote:
this week's big announcement from EI

this week's first big announcement from EI...


Time running out?!

[tallseabird]

I have it on good authority that Qantas are going to join forces with Virgin and operate 15 direct routes across the world from BFS using a mixture of 744s and A346's, least thats what SRB told me last night - mind you maybe I was dreaming at the time, its hard to tell these days

[gate 22]

ha ha ha ha ! April 01 has passed several months ago. Listen I think Belfast's next 'big one' will be if Jet 2 announce 1 flight a week to Chambery for the winter, and I am really beginning to think that will be all BFS is capable of attracting new this year.

[chec tunset]

Airport management seem to the the EI BFS-LHR plan is a done deal. The're tight lipped about any other EI routes though. Jet2 mumblings point at CMF too and possibly ACE

[cougafer]

I live under the flight path for BHD, and over the last few days, cos its been sunny, ive been sittin out the back with the laptop, but one thing has been puzzling me. I keep seeing a plane that looks like VLM, but i just checked BHD arrivals page, and the only thing arriving soonish is BE form MAN.

Can anyone shed some light on this? Charter for IOM TT?

Many Thanks

[Kestrel_909]

VLM F50 operating for FlyBe on some of the MAN rotations.

[richardnei]

With jet2 basing a 757 at BFS this Winter. Its currently operating the LPA route on Mon/Sat and TFS on Tue/Fri. So poss of more new routes for the 757 as the a/c is free on WED/THU/SUN.

An ACE route would do well on THU/SUN and a CMF on WED or at the weekend. Both would do very well from BFS.

We wait and see. Jet2 to announce ski routes on TUE.

[bhd-lonFLYer]

I have heard that CITYJET are planning to start jet services on the bhd-lcy route. Will this work or will the planes not be filled up?

[keepitlit]

Already started this with a scotair D328

rgds

K.I.L.

[Belboy]

If Air FranceKLM/Cityjet/Scot Airways can't fill a 30 seat turbo prop, why would they put a jet on the route? I accept that a jet might have more appeal, especially to business travellers, but the fares are too high in a market place served by over 30 flights daily from NI.
How long will a route with such poor load factors continue? I used the route once, just out of interest, and while it was interesting going into LCY and the service was good it was too expensive and over an hour late home to BHD. I was told by staff on arrival at BHD that it is always late.

[bhd-lonFLYer]

I got this info from an airfrance manager, maybe the fact its a bigger aircraft(rj85) will bring down seat prices and it will also speed up the flights.

[NWSRG]

Hi folks,

Was a passenger on LS336 into BFS from Bergamo today. Lined up over the lough for a 17 landing. All seemed fine. Then at about 500ft (?) we went around, and circled over the western shores of the lough for about ten minutes. Captain then came on to advise us that a 'minor technical problem with indication' had occurred. We then had an uneventful landing on 17 (although the approach seemed a bit rocky this time). Purely out of curiosity, would any of our BFS colleagues know what happened? And why was 17 in use? I know go-arounds are routine etc. but out of curiosity I have to ask!!

[Kestrel_909]

There was work in progress on 25/07 today, hence 17 was in use though it switched back to 25 shortly after you arrived as the inbounds behind you used it.

[NWSRG]

Thanks Kestrel,

Any word on the 'technical problem'?

[True Blue]

The BBC NI News at 22.30 tonight carried an article on the possibility of EI coming to Bfs. Said Bfs was one of a number of airports being comsidered, to create up to 1000 jobs and up to 15 new routes. Wonder what has prompted BBC to carry the article now?

True Blue

[cessnarocket]

yep tech problem was with the gear not locking local standby declared

[bfsalphaone]

I have heard from a reliable source at BFS, that the final choice for the new EI base is between BFS and BHX.

If they do open a base at BFS, has anyone any ideas if they would go self handling or handling agent?


bfsalphaone

[cessnarocket]

when they open the bfs base the agent will be servisair 90% certain

[Kestrel_909]

when they open the bfs base the agent will be servisair 90% certain

When they open? So if it's decided, why hasn't it been announced? I'd love for it to BFS as much as anyone, but until I see it in black and white from EI themselves, I'm not getting my hopes up.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/6743097.stm

[akerosid]

I saw on one of the news sites this morning (I think it was Breakingnews.ie) that Jeffrey Donaldson was very anxious to see EI start up at BFS. Now, BHX may offer more traffic, but I can see a political angle hear and I would imagine that there is a LOT of behind the scenes political pressure to get EI to set up at BFS.

When you have the DUP wanting EI to set up there, you can see how far things have developed in NI!

[bhd-lonFLYer]

jet2 and easy jet offer many flights to european destinations although there are still key european buisness destinations not served by airlines direct from belfast. This should be resolved if aer lingus open a new hub at bfs but if they do not do you think the likes of klm/airfrance/lufthansa will start flights.

[gate 22]

Well Chambery in the bag with Jet2, weekly on Sat starting Dec. I wonder if Toulose/Milan will operate throughout winter as well. Still cannot name 14 European destinations for EI, maybe say Boston via Shannon, Dubai via Dublin (I know I have mentioned these before, but they would work quite well and would account for 4 destinations Boston, Dubai, Dublin, Shannon.) Dubai will happen from BFS in the future, and be popular, so why would EI not start it up now, there are quite a lot of NI flyers use Dub at the moment to travel to Dubai, EI would lose most of these if direct services were to start from BFS.
Heard strong rumour about Bmibaby to base an aircraft in BFS. Although most of the rotations suggested where to Man, Bhx etc no mention of new routes. They are showing double daily BFS/CWL, throughout the winter, which is good considering flybe entering onto the route. Who will fall first I cannot see both surviving.

[ALLMCC]

Find it difficult to understand what all the fuss about Jet 2 and ski flights to Chambery from BFS is about - Flybe have operated Chambery ski charters from BHD every winter for at least the past 5 years!

The rumours of EI at BFS is rapidly turning into a joke and more about wishful thinking and the involvement of the DUP is laughable. In fact, a press release I saw the other day mentioned several airports were still being considered, amongst them GLA and, wait for it, BHD! My own personal feeling is that Belfast will not be the new base at all.

There also seem to be some recent press rumblings about MOL being asked to consider Shannon to Belfast - I have also heard that, whilst BFS may seem to be the natural choice, BHD has not been ruled out.

[eastern wiseguy]

Shannon to Belfast - I have also heard that, whilst BFS may seem to be the natural choice, BHD has not been ruled out.

I must say I would be surprised to see RYR at Belfast even more so at BHD .I wonder where the management would get the stands from for EIN ...still we await with interest.


Hold on though just a thought.....when Bmi Baby move down to the sh*tty that would make room eh Mr McCall!!:p:p:p

[gate 22]

I don't think Baby will move to BHD (I take it that sh*tty refers to BHD). BA moved down then left. BD moved down there numbers fell - still falling, LGW is now for the first time on an equal footing with LHR as an option from Belfast (unbelievable doesn't happen at any other UK airport). BE operating more and more routes still there numbers keep falling. Air Berlin poor passenger numbers (must be a very high yield). I would say that if Baby move down to BHD, EI would say right that gives us BHX/MAN. If EI don't operate from BFS, Jet2 would announce BFS/MAN maybe BHX. So we would have WW/BE scrapping it out at BHD. While LS or EI pulling in the numbers at BFS. WW would then leave. I think its more likely that BD would move up the road. BHD is the graveyard for airlines in Belfast, they move down from BFS then slowly die, the minute EI operate LHR bye bye BD. I mean BD announced some time a go that they wanted a late night arrival into BHD to 'help the local economy' as they put it. Really BD why don't you actually help the local economy and reduce your fares.

[True Blue]

Gate 22

Well said, that just about sums it up. I have been asking for a year now, how come Bhd keep adding routes and pax keep falling, never can get an answer. Look at the most recent Caa stats, pax bhd - Lgw down again. Yet haven't Flybe added another flight weekdays on that route? What has that done for the yield? If Easy add more freqencies to Lgw it will be by Flybe as well. Also Ncl not doing well.

True Blue

[True Blue]

A poster on another forum is reporting that a friend of his at Ei has been offered a transfer to Man for a new base opening there. So the assumption is being made that the new base will be in Man not Bfs.

True Blue

[gate 22]

EI base,

There a lot of rumours floating around about where it will be from Latvia to Bristol. The hard stuff is what circulates in the media. I would say its between BHX and BFS as published in the papers last week. Although it was announced by a politician, I would say he went public with actual facts known to himself. Also the Man threads are quiet on this subject. With LHR as a winner and other possibilities I feel BFS has a good chance. The only problem is 15 destinations, but they don't have to be daily. Toulose and I think Bordeaux are options with EI from Dublin, but I think I am correct in saying they only operate a couple of times a week for example. Also BHX/MAN have a lot of competition, and if EI move in Ryanair will just react with a massive expansion at LPL/EMA. However I suppose they could expand at Londonderry if EI opened up at BFS, or although I think unlikely Ryanair could go to BHD. But BHD wouldn't suit the Ryanair model, I don't think they could operate a base there due to 1. Restrictions 2. Space.

To throw another spanner in the works is Ryanair still trying to buy EI, and if so what would the outcome be, oh this is complicated-a way out to sit in the rain.

[OltonPete]

gate 22

In ABTN there is a direct quote from Enda Corneille (that's how it is spelt)
EI Commercial Director stating Birmingham, Glasgow, Manchester and Belfast are being considered. They are also not ruling out UK-US flights (article is still viewable).

I'm a BHX local and everyone is tight-lipped here but a few weeks ago it was thought to be in the bag by some (due to various reasons), one of which was the switching of the BHX-ORK schedule on Tuesdays, Thursdays & Saturday for winter 2007/8 from a Cork based aircraft to a BHX based aircraft.

It is still shown as the same now and there has been no change to the BHX - DUB schedule to accommodate the Cork. It was thought that the aircraft might route DUB-BHX-ORK-BHX-DUB.

They are going to great lengths to keep everyone guessing, just wish
they would put us out of our misery.

Pete

[gate 22]

Find it difficult to understand what all the fuss about Jet 2 and ski flights to Chambery from BFS is about - Flybe have operated Chambery ski charters from BHD every winter for at least the past 5 years!

Yes but apart from folk in Northdown and East Belfast who actually wants to use BHD on a holiday flight. I mean if your delayed there's actually nothing to do. Car parking options are limited. If there's high winds which quite often happens (especially in winter) then you will be diverted to BFS anyway. Give me one reason why anyone outside the above areas would want to drive into Belfast when they can use BFS. You use the west link - carpark and you may get a brick on the head. I live just outside Belfast and BHD by distance is closer. When going to Aldergrove on a flight you head out into the country side on open roads and in 10mins you are parking at BFS relaxed stress free, knowing that the aircraft probably will arrive back in the same airport. Going to bhd its like commuting to work-I tell you after a stuggle through Belfast to arrive at that airport and hear your flight is delayed - HELL!!!. Most destinations are now available from BFS and that will suit most people which is good, however I don't think are any flights to Verona this year from BFS, I am thinking of going next year, if they don't do Verona there is always Milan. Does anyone know if Verona is available from BFS-I'll have to have a word with Thompson/Ingrams about that.

[keepitlit]

Gate 22
I have been reading your misleading information/slating BHD and the only conclusion I can come to is either you have shares at BFS or you feel the harbour is a threat to your lively hood, the 2 airports serve different purposes and both do it very well, I believe there is a big enough community/population to service both, I suggest you build a bridge and get over it.

If you should do a small search on the internet i.e. BHD web site you would have gained the info about a flight to VRN, but I’ll save you the bother,
Yes it operated in the winter as a ski charter and now as a beach holiday to Garda for the summer, it’s been going twice on Saturday for about 3 weeks and they are using a 319(144 config).
With regards to who would use it, I’ve operated it over the last couple of weeks and the lowest pax figure was over 130(for a 144 I'd say that’s popular wouldn't you)

"(Especially in winter) then you will be diverted to BFS anyway"
What are facts have you based this assumption on, I’ve operated into BHD for 8 years and have diverted once due to fog not because of winds, very few have so get some facts before you bring our profession into question.

"Going to bhd its like commuting to work-I tell you after a struggle through Belfast to arrive at that airport and hear your flight is delayed - HELL!!!."
HELL! You don’t know how lucky you are, you want to try getting to airports in London.

Both have purpose, for one we are glad to have BFS as a diversion and im sure some of my easy colleagues would say the same for BHD.

rgds

K.I.L.

[Belboy]

The idea that Ryanair will start anything from the city is surely not realistic. Is the runway at Harbour not shorter than CODA, and they are having to take houses down to facilitate RYR? Can you see the local director of friends of the earth and the other good burgers of Kinnegar alloowing that one to happen? Baby will not be moving and Jet 2 are also at BFS to stay despite attempts to woo them away. BD have a dilema, the most profitable route on their network, the only one with out competition, is being decimated despite the fact that the competition is not even to the same airport LHR, but to the other London airports, and now you have a realistic threat of direct competition, BFS - LHR. BD realise that the decision to move in 2001 was for all the wrong reasons and are now seriously considering how they should react to secure this ultra lucretive route. If EI don't announce a BFS - LHR beforehand I think you will see a move back up the road by BD, at least in a limited form, 4 daily including late night arrival to BFS, but this will only be the precursor to moving all services back.

[keepitlit]

BEL

You may see a late rotation but they wont move just yet, they are happy to stick with situ at the min as its doing the job nicely:ok:

Rgds

K.I.L.

[gate 22]

My interests from Bfs point of view are plain and simple COMMON SENSE. I know of several folk who live under the flight path (and are fed up with the noise) and having worked under the flight path myself I think from a COMMON SENSE safety and enviromental, point of view, there is no reason as to having an airport in a built up area when there is one just up the road. (I mean for the size of Belfast this is just common sense, nothing else). People will reply with nonsense about living beside airports is desirable and they do not annoy folk, (these folk can only be spotters). Speaking on behalf of myself (I know that I am mad in the head for saying this but I would not like to live right under the flight path, aeroplanes are NOISY. Like wise I would not like to live beside a motoway or a nuclear power station as a result of this I DON'T. However not everyboby has this choice and these people need protection (the planners have not treated BCA like LCY is, no 737's A320 operate in the latter.
NI plc does not need BCA. In fact their owners are a construction firm, and I am sure we are not far from a point when the value of the land for development occupied by BCA is greater than the value of running the airport. Belfast is short of housing, rather than destroy the countryside BCA should be developed as an area for high density housing. This would be welcomed by most. This decision will be based on economics by the owners and will happen as the value of land keeps on rising at a rediculous rate. I think this happened in Hong Kong.

As for diversions keepitlit, you are lucky the amount of folk I know who have been diverted to BFS would put anybody of, for reasons such as high winds, late arrivals or as you say fog. You obviously work for BD which they seem to operate pretty well with relation to delays but not BE on friday night (I think) there were 2 diversions.

[keepitlit]

Youve shown your colours "(and are fed up with the noise)"


As for safety please explain your point are you suggesting we are unsafe!
I can furnish you with our requirements which are above and beyond legal requirements.


"the planners have not treated BCA like LCY is, no 737's A320 operate in the latter."
I think youll find LCY is getting approved for 319's. its nothing to do with it being a city airport its the steep approach criteria which has to be met!

If the owners wanted to sell for development why would they apply to expand it!

Ive heard this all before but I think BHD will outlive both of us!

rgds

K.I.L.:ugh:

[eastern wiseguy]

Actually KIL I suspect you are correct in the assertion that it will "outlive us both" HOWEVER a very strong case can be made for the existence of two airfields so close together actually STIFLING overall growth.The duplication of costs and lack of interchange between airlines (pain in the bum in places like BHX/MAN/GLA/EDI if you miss a BEE and see there is an EZY departing for a different airfield) not useful for business travellers. A flight from the capital which leaves ridiculously early in the evening doesn't help.The total number of passengers in the same place might actually act as a pump primer for MORE services from the US /EUROPE and dare I say it beyond?. Noise IS a factor for many people who did NOT move beside the airfield (IT actually moved in with THEM .A naval air station morphs into a facility which is regulary shifting in the region of 1,000,000 people per annum)..
The solution IS BFS .....as unpalatable as it may be to us rich folk in North Down.:E

[keepitlit]

Mabe, but it anit going to happen any time soon, I hear they are to put the noise gear in so the jurys out on that one.

Im just happy to work out of both,


As for "to us rich folk in North Down" I wish LOL:D:D

Rgds

K.I.L.

[cuthere]

Having used both airports many, many times over the years I'd like to say getting delayed at either is HELL. In fact, getting delayed at any airport is HELL. In BHD's defence, at least, providing the delay is long enough, which on occasion it has been, you can hop on the bus into Belfast city centre (and on more than one occasion the nice peeps at Flybe check-in even took my number to give me a call if a miraculous fix to any delay was achieved) . At BFS you're sort of stuck there.

Anyway, isn't it in the interests of everyone in Northern Ireland to have three thriving, successful airports, with BFS as the main or hub international airport; Belfast City providing the service it already does, for business travel, regional passengers, a selection of charters and easy access to flights for the people in its immediate catchment area; and for City of Derry to provide a selection of regional and charter routes to the 400,000 people or so in the NW of Ireland (Derry City Council figures), for whom travelling to either Belfast airport can be an expensive pain in the bum?

It seems in the south of Ireland any town of any size has an airport (Galway, Waterford, Knock (not much urban sprawl there!), Kerry, Sligo etc etc), and they seem to be doing ok. So why should the north be any different?

I don't see the need for the "my airport is better than yours" bickering....but there you go.

[gate 22]

Keepitlit,


‘shown my true colours’ well the ‘noise’ doesn’t actually bother me I don’t live under a flight path, but there are people who do if you have no regard for them well fair enough.
Safety-I would like to think every airport satisfies the highest safety requirements or the CAA will shut you down. An accident is most likely to occur while an aircraft is taking off or landing therefore as BHD is located in a built up area there would be a higher risk involved with respect to casualties because 1. its harder to perform an emergency landing in a housing estate as opposed to open fields, 2. Because there is high density housing the risk is higher to the number of casualties on the ground. You can throw the book at me all you want but one cannot argue with this ‘risk assessment’. I mean if you were to site an airport at a city that didn’t have one, and you had a blank canvas, the airport would be sited away from built up areas. "(Especially in winter) then you will be diverted to BFS anyway"
What are facts have you based this assumption on, I’ve operated into BHD for 8 years and have diverted once due to fog not because of winds, very few have so get some facts before you bring our profession into question


BEE132



GLASGOW


22:55


22:55


DIVERTED FROM


I used the term high wind diversions loosely to imply that there is a high chance of a diversion at BHD. The above extract was copied from the BFS arrivals board earlier this evening, I wonder where that has been diverted from, I wouldn’t want to bring any ones profession into question

[richardnei]

Must agree with Gate 22.

Flybe diversions at BFS are becoming more and more regular. Some weeks it's a daily occurance. It must cost them alot in coach transfers, crew taxis and out off hours ground handling.

It only seems to be Flybe. You very rarely see a bmi divert to BFS.

[eastern wiseguy]

Anyway, isn't it in the interests of everyone in Northern Ireland to have three thriving, successful airports


Frankly no...for the reasons given above

[cuthere]

Surely the economic drivers within the aviation industry will determine the need or otherwise for two, three or ten airports in NI. Are we to believe that airlines will keep operating unprofitable, underused routes, when pressures such as fuel costs etc are considered? Especially BMI, whose slots at LHR are no doubt valuable to them?

If, as some on here seem to be suggesting, BHD is superfluous, then surely that will become all too obvious in the cold light of hard economics and the likes of Flybe and BMI will take their aircraft and routes elsewhere.

[eastern wiseguy]

I think you have to look at the type of deals airlines are given by ALL airports in NI. The fact remains that if you were to take a cold look at what was best for NIplc you would come to the conclusion that TWO airports(ignore City of Derry..it is a specific niche) chasing fundamentally the same business is not economical nor sensible.

[cuthere]

If that's correct the result will be one of the airports in question becoming economically untenable, with inevitable loss of business and possible closure; and surely that can't be good news.

[eastern wiseguy]

If you were an accountant and you looked at it long and hard ...what would you do?.As it is they are there,seperate,competing, and I believe it to be a poor use of resources.

[controller friendly]

Bloody Hell...Have I woken up in August 2001....? Haven't we ALL been here before...?

:ugh::ugh:

[eastern wiseguy]

bloody hell thought you had retired!!:)

[cessnarocket]

bfs took delivery today off two nearly new clumbus 3000s for remote parking busing im told they are keeping there existing buses as well so thats 4 in total (2 with 70 pax each) and 2 with 150 pax each now make up your own mind what they spent 250,000 est on buses for

[ESCNI]

For transferring rerouted Flybe passengers to/from BHD?

;)

[gate 22]

I just wonder if EI would maybe announce 2 bases, splitting the aircraft 2 at one, one in the other depending on how many aircraft they have for this expansion. I have heard 2,3 & 4 aircraft rumoured. Last week it was between BFS & BHX, now its between GLA & MAN. I have never understood why GLA has not so many scheduled flights to continental europe, however with Ryanair at Prestwick, we all know what would happen if EI was to announce GLA. I would say Belfast is certainly still in the running. Anybody heard anything (cessnarocket-still playing your cards close to your chest - what do you know?)

[SKY's4ME]

Gate 22 and others.

Lets be very realistic there is no hope of Lingus moving to BFS or BHD in the short term anyway at the most possibly a LHR-BFS Link but nothing else. EI do not want to compete direcly against another Loco like EZY. They have enough problems with Ryanair at Dublin.

I agree the future development opportunities at BFS are great but those developments will come from current operators most likely Easyjet! Aswell as new transatlantic opportunities from elsewhere.

[chec tunset]

You can be assured that BFS expansion will not be fuelled by Easyjet. Their domestic yields are under pressure and all roads point to bases in Europe. Currently last on the list for the bus and with a commercial team that have little interest in the regions they more likely to open a base in Basra (great potential catchment area!) than develop any further in BFS anytime soon. BFS expansion in future will be unlocked by others, probably Jet2 and i'll wager EI will at the very least be on a LHR fairly soon. What BFS needs is it's own airline...any takers? Thought not :*

[gate 22]

EI do not want to compete direcly against another Loco like EZY

EI cannot run and hide from competition, the matter which airport they choose they will be up against some other loco, if not at that airport, then one nearby. If what you are saying is true then we are talking Inverness or Aberdeen. GLA (EZY, - PWK RYR) MAN (JET2, WW, BE, MON - LPL EZY, RYR) BHX (WW, BE - EMA RYR, EZY - Coventry , Thompson) BFS (EZY, JET2) so where are we talking about. However I would agree that EI may only do LHR initially, thats why I was suggesting that they may go for a base at say MAN/BHX/GLA and then operate 1 aircraft from BFS/BHD to LHR.

[en2r]

If EI were to only operate LHR-BFS, I'd say they wouldn't open a BFS base but would base the aircraft at LHR, and operate flights using Dublin crews similiar to the way they operate LHR-Shannon. I don't know would it be economically viable to open a 1 aircraft base.

[gate 22]

would it be economically viable to open a 1 aircraft base.

I wouldn't know the economics of it but plenty of airlines station aircraft at airports that are not bases eg Bmi at the city, I know they normally have 1 aircraft based there although they do have 2 this summer. However the low cost airlines seem to night stop only at their dedicated bases. If EI operate Belfast-LHR then they should definately night stop at Belfast.

[hushkit77]

actually I'm sure BMI do have a base at BHD....
They have their own ground staff, flight/cabin crew and aircraft at BHD. If that doesn't make it a base what the hell does???:confused:

[gate 22]

actually I'm sure BMI do have a base at BHD....
They have their own ground staff, flight/cabin crew and aircraft at BHD. If that doesn't make it a base what the hell does???

I was trying to justify that there are bases/stations, whatever you want to call them, were only 1 aircraft is based. Now obviously if an aircraft is parked over night (or 2 during the summer at BHD this year) then the crew would also have to be based there. (I don't actually think the crewless aircraft is in mainstream yet, if it was then that would be Ryanairs fleet by now). Another example would be when KLM/Sabena night stopped at BFS, I don't think BFS was classified as a base for them (I could be wrong). Now I don't know if they would have had a back-up crew in those days but they could well have done. A base to me would imply several aircraft parked over night, with full back-up services, several routes etc.

[SKY's4ME]

Chec Tunset,
There is nothing behind the fact BFS is last to get the bus in the EZY network. Infact if they could accelerate orders from Airbus they would base the bus at BFS. Just not enough A/C to go around.
The 737's last of which only delivered at the end of '04' have alot of life in them (less can be said for the likes of Jet2's steam driven types some of which unlike ezy's new models look abit scruffy aswell) and they will to be around at BFS for another 2 years.
There will be opportunities as LTN phases in the bus for 737's to be transfered to BFS and expansion will happen. A company expanding at the rate of EZY needs A/C and that is what is slowing expansion nothing else.

[chec tunset]

There is plenty behind the fact BFS is last on the bus list. It spells out where their priorities lie. The extra seats on the bus could be used to good effect in BFS but more importantly, as BFS is an extra 45 mins up the road from most European destinations and the bus is cheaper to operate it should've been a no-brainer. Base coversion is also 3 years away, not 2. As for expansion, Easy have allowed Jet2 to tread on their patch unchecked after some initial bravado from the boss about seeing them off. There was also much talk about route expansion late last year which never materialised despite the fact it was announced in the press. Easy had plenty of aircraft to play with this year...they just put them in other places. Have a look at the mess that was made in LPL, GLA, EDI and EMA..all bases where the competition has eclipsed the orange machine and then see if you think it won't happen here.

[gate 22]

I see there are to MYT flights today for Sanford 1015 and 1315, I suppose the second one will only run for a couple of weeks over the holiday period say to mid July or will it run right through to late August/September.




Continued on: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3361710#post3361710