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View Full Version : Simulator Training: Realistic demonstrations or just another Gimmick?


A37575
1st Nov 2006, 12:05
Low hour newly graduated first and second officers is practically the norm in some airlines. Asian airlines are examples of this trend. With lack of exposure to real life situations faced daily by experienced general aviation pilots who have been fortunate enough to get an F/O slot, one wonders how these inexperienced second-in-commands can have the foresight to see an accident in the making.

Perhaps during their early simulator training a crash could be demonstrated by the simulator instructor by himself as an experienced captain flying in the left seat a deliberately unstable approach to a wet runway. He could actually patter the flight. You know the sort of thing - tail-wind on final - inaccurate speed control too fast over the fence - long float due trickle of thrust left on inadvertently - delay in selecting speed brake - - delay in selecting reverse thrust - with an obvious over-run as the end result.

From this scenario, it is hoped the trainee airline pilot can now see for himself the end result of a poorly flown approach and in his future career will be able to recognise the early warning signs of the approach going tit's up and he will know the probable result of pressing on regardless.

Is this so called "negative training" or could it be seriously useful when aimed at inexperienced first time airline pilots?:)

Old Smokey
2nd Nov 2006, 10:09
I don't think that a deliberate crash would achieve much, but at our airline Captains are exposed to deliberate mistakes (the likes of which you refer to) as an exercise in recovery from these excursions into no-man's land.

Destabilised approaches, bounced landings, mis-handled crosswind landing, excessive float, and of course everybody's favourite, the unusual attitude recovery, are regularly practiced. All good value.

The few occasions when I've been conducting sim sessions and couldn't get to the freeze button fast enough, leading to a crash, inevitabely lead to the trainee's demoralisation, hardly any training value in that!

Regards,

Old Smokey

411A
2nd Nov 2006, 15:09
In my professional and personal opinion, simulator training should be as realistic as possible, and this is where I find the LOFT sessions quite interesting.
Real life scenarios induced on a regular line flight, with all the little problems that can indeed come up at the last minute.
To my way of thinking this is most valuable to the new inexperienced guys, and helps them hugely with transistioning to the line...and it sure makes it easier for the line training Captains as well.

A37575
3rd Nov 2006, 12:10
411A In my professional and personal opinion, simulator training should be as realistic as possible

I'll go along with that. However what I do think is a waste of valuable simulator time is someone forced by the instructor to spend 15 minutes of taxiing time around Gatwick as part of the LOFT.

When some pilots are lucky to get just one four-hour sim session a year while flying in a third world country it is a gross waste of time to spend two-thirds of that LOFT 4 hours on autopilot in holding patterns reading checklists and long drawn out cover your arse briefings.

LOFT has it's place but not at the expense of flying skill practice. That said, to do a good LOFT with all the hats the instructor wears, he needs a course in Shakespearan acting. It is the pilot that needs the practice - not an actor type instructor.

Mercenary Pilot
3rd Nov 2006, 12:41
Personally, I don't think it is a good idea at all.

The sim shakes, the screens go blank and that’s it. No written off aircraft, no fire, no dead bodies, no consequence. It will just enforce a feeling of invulnerability.

The lesson should be "if it’s not safe, DONT DO IT!” Also let’s not forget that many of accidents blamed on pilot error have been caused by an experienced crew being complacent.

I agree that training should be as realistic as possable. In todays high tech world of modern FDR's, with lots of companies now monitoring its pilot's approaches, if you do something silly you will be pulled up for it. Same in the sim, only it will be your instructor rather than management asking "WHAT THE FCUK WERE YOU THINKING!!!" :E

I'll go along with that. However what I do think is a waste of valuable simulator time is someone forced by the instructor to spend 15 minutes of taxiing time around Gatwick as part of the LOFT.


I'm going have to disagree there too. Taxing should be considered a critical phase of flight and some very serious accidents and incidents have been caused by both members of the crew being distracted during taxi in/out. However, alot of Sims are very limited in respect to taxing so maybe it should depend on the specification of the "box" whether LOFT should include ground movement.

Centaurus
5th Nov 2006, 12:56
The lesson should be "if its not safe, DONT DO IT!

I have heard the same objection to practicing unusual attitude recoveries in the simulator. As one CAA inspector put it: Far better to teach the student not to get into an unusual attitude in the first place rather than teaching the recovery.

This is like saying that there is no point in teaching a child to swim - far better to teach the child not to venture near the water...