Air Nelson to get additional 4 aircraft

[Sqwark2000]

Heard a rumour about the above, Q300 fleet to 21? to start new south island destinations.

Anyone else to add/confirm??


S2K

[propaganda]

Heard a rumour about the above, Q300 fleet to 21? to start new south island destinations.
Anyone else to add/confirm??
S2K Good time to expand after Origins demise...good rumour:ok:

[Cloud Cutter]

I don't think it's a rumour, it was apparently in the business section of the Herald the other day, I didn't see it though.

This doesn't really come as a suprise, it's been in the pipelines for some time. Now will they get the other 16 :E

[slamer.]

But are they Q300's or Q400's ...... :oh: ???

[Flyin Low]

Four more Dash 8 Q300's have been confirmed to take the fleet to 21. The five year plan was to have an additional five aircraft, two of the extra four planes were to take up the slack that Origin left behind. So only two of these planes fit into the five year plan, the other two were just gimme's from Origin's demise. At this stage they will operate 21 aircraft but want to operate 24 by the time the Dash 8 introduction is complete.

[Uncle Chop Chop]

I hear there' big new jeta1 tanks installed at NZMC......

[empacher48]

I hear there' big new jeta1 tanks installed at NZMC......

Yes, One oil company pulls out of NZMC, and takes all the equipment with them, leaving nothing but mini tankers...

Pioneer have scored a contract with a UK based tour company to fly pax from NZMC to NZCH (or elsewhere), with tours coming through the area usually every second or third day. So the big tanks maybe just for a Convair??

Plus with NZUK not an option (due to minimum runway widths not being enough to carry a DHC-8) if NZMC gets those good strong Westerlies the MacKenzie country gets (87kts recorded on the ground around that area about 2 to 3 weeks ago). Its certainly not like the good old Mt Cook days with 748s flying in and out of there...

If anyone was going to look into something like that, you might want to fly something a tad smaller first, then move into the DHC8-300s...

[Dodgy Boy]

emapcher48, you don't know which Uk tour company it is do you?

[empacher48]

Heard through the grape vine that the company is Allways Pacific, they used to come from Dunedin or Queenstown up through to Mt Cook for the night, then drive back to Christchurch, but now they drive into Mt Cook and do a Scenic Flight in a Pionair Convair!!

[Sqwark2000]

Well the news from the Eagle Tauranga base meeting, last night, suggests that an additional Q300 will go to Tauranga at the expense of the B1900 and the crew base. Extra Q due in TG Jan/Feb 08.

Eagle crew to be redeployed to HN, aircraft unsure where that's going yet.

S2K

[Cloud Cutter]

Oh dear, that doesn't sound good.

How long has it been since Eagle made compulsory postings? I would imagine the aircraft would also go to Hamilton, and take over the HN-NS and HN-PM runs that Vincent are doing. There was talk of the 18th Beach (if that ever happens) going to Hamilton.

[mattyj]

I have a couple of questions.
How is it that AirNSN made such a healthy profit last year when Eagle just scraped a couple of mill together.

Why is it that Eagle crews are rushing around like blue arsed flies all day looking stressed at NZAA whereas NSN guys seem happy and relaxed? Eagle have way more takeoffs and landings and some poor guy/girl is constantly going out to do a check ride with a very serious looking training captain. (when will they admit that a sim will save them big money?)

How can the managment justify a 4 day interview process. Who can afford to transport themselves to HN for 4 days off work to prove that they are gods gift to aviation? Why do those new hires for NSN always include a couple of Eagle drivers?

Is the grass really that much greener? (those q300s are really nice up front too)

[Sqwark2000]

Matty J,

I think you'll find that Eagle has always made a $2-3M profit and that is pretty much standard with the exception of the last 3 or so years when the budget was cleared of fleet replacement costs and prior to major engine overhauls and heavy maint schedules kicking in. I think the last 2 or 3 years the profit was around $9-11M, but the forcast with fuel increases and overhauls and heavy maint has dropped that to just $2M or thereabouts.

Who knows about the 4 day process?? maybe we're just keeping 1 day ahead of Air Nelson and Mt. Cook who are themselves moving to 2 and 3 day interviews.

Eagle has traditionally been, for the most part, a stepping stone company with employees looking to move on to bigger machines and locations with required lifestyle so there's nothing new there either.

As for the sim question, eagle only does 2 checks a day, monday to friday and the odd check on the weekends at bases where a C&T Capt is based and an aircraft is available ( WR Sat afternoons and Sunday mornings, WB Sunday mornings etc) Getting a sim for 3 hours a day utilisation is not a business case to be won, but there are plans in progress, just don't expect there to be a full motion cat D simulator in another port-a-com annex at the HLZ headquarters soon.

S2K

[flyby_kiwi]

I guess re: TG there may not be the need for an 18th Beech now, who knows? And Yeap, the consensusis that the HN guys will take over what vincent do already with NS, PM etc. Only 2008 will tell.

Further to S2K's comments, I think you will find its big brother that wants the loss making sectors to go ahead to get the punters on a more profitable connection. Dont know for certain but think youll find its 50/50 as to which sectors are the ones making vs loosing the $$$. As soon as they become a gold mine the Beech will pull out and a Dash or Saab will take over and the Beech will look for a new run, Wanganui - Wellies to be next im told.

[Cloud Cutter]

mattyj

It is difficult to make large profits with a fleet of 19 seat aircraft, what you have to look at (and the reason for Eagle's existence) is the impact on the group as a whole. As flyby_kiwi pointed out, 50% of Eagle's sectors run at a loss, but it is Air New Zealand who decides where we fly. It's all about providing a feeder service.

When routes are running close to capacity and making a good profit (like AA-TG) they get taken off us and given to a bigger aircraft (makes sense) so it is a constant struggle to turn a profit. I'm not saying any of this is wrong, it is the way things have to work.

With respect to your statement on the demeanour of Eagle crews operating out of AKL, I think most of us (while very busy) are still pretty happy. Of course being last in line for service on the ramp (not from fuelies of course) can quickly put you in a bad mood. There are plenty of us who are not dead set on moving any time soon.

That's my view anyway. Cheers.

[Split Flap]

Eagle have a 4 day interveiw process because they want the best of the best of the best... with honours... sir...
Lets not forget it is the most sophisticated turboprop in the country...:ugh:

Nsn seem to find a little half hour chat is enough get the good chaps (and chapesses).:ok:

[mattyj]

If you can show you have 3 or more re-entries (preferably hand flown) the candidate may go straight through to the simulator course in Toronto. Of course a Moon landing will ensure a Direct entry command shot!

[ZK-NSN]

The Eagle sim check does'nt sound like its anyting too drastic. a few holds, then a -4g inverted dive with a Mig-28 close enough for you to get a polariod. Although i hear its an instant fail if you dont catch the #3 wire on landing.

I heard that Origin accounted for about 8% of the regional market. Im sure AirNSN could have easily swallowed this capacity, not that im complaining. Heres hoping they get another 4!

[Hanz Blix]

Ah good to see little bro (eagle) is always getting the shafting from big bro and fellow pilots (mainly air NSN:ugh: ).

Good luck to the TG based guys, they are all good buggers and I sincererly hope they don't close that base down.:{

The only thing I do agree with here is that a 4 day interview is way overboard. Management need to have a serious look at what its achieving. GA guys and girls can't afford much in life let alone take a week off work fork out for accomodation and travel ect. I know management in Hamilton are a sensible bunch but this decission is a poor one. Time for a rethink:ok:

[Cloud Cutter]

What a load of ****e. There's no sim even used these days. The only reason it's over four days is that they couldn't fit the various exercises for 10 people into less time.

Everyone's quick to judge when a bunch of new F/Os don't make it through line training, but heaven forbid the company should try to do something proactive and work on the preselection.

All the guys I've talked to off the last round said they had a blast going up for a blat in the plane, and I think if most of us think back to that stage in our careers, we would have loved it too.

What about the poor Aussie pilots who not only have to fork out a few bucks to be at an interview, but pay for certain assessments, and of course $10K for a type rating.

[kiwipilot02]

Heard Wellington- Invercargill direct with the Dash is on the radar.

[Cloud Cutter]

Does anyone know if they're looking at TRG-CHC after Origin paved the way?

[mattyj]

What about the new AirNSN base at Hamilton? Has that been confirmed yet?

[flyby_kiwi]

The Airnsn base at hamilton has been happening for years and years. Cant confirm its actually going ahead any time soon tho.

Yes TG - CH is apparently starting in the not too distant future (I think about 6 months is what i was told)

[always inverted]

Let us just remember that Eagle is a stepping stone in the majority of cases, sure they work hard and stand in the rain sometimes, but remember, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
Unless I'm mistaken, the comments regarding the TG base are slightly incorrect, the aircraft will be going to HN at this stage and the company will be working with the guys there during the period between now and the closure to work out where the crew will go, it's not just "it's closed, you go here..." unless I'm mistaken...
With 4 or 5 so called m/e ifr, high time guys not getting through the training earlier in the year, is it really a wonder that the company wants to eliminate the d@#k heads getting through the interview then costing lots of money to eventually fail the check, good on them, comming up with an interview system that works must be quite hard and good on them for trying something else.
Air NSN have historicly required time in an ATO before going for an interview, and around 1500 hrs of probably hard done time, therefore sort-of reducing the chance of green around the edges getting through- as ga is sort of self sifting.
Once people stop bitching and moaning about this and that and remember that they have a job in an a/c with the koru on the tail, allbeit a 1900 (which is actually quite a fun plane to fly) and also what it was like in ga for the majority of people- instructing does not count the better it will be.
Maybe a bold call but the ones that moan the loudest seem to be those that think that Eagle should be privelaged to have them work for them or those that have been told no thanks. But at the end of the day, people will always moan, it wont matter how much money they get or how much time off they get.:= := :=


(standing by for a whipping)

[Hanz Blix]

Thanks for clarifing whats going on with the TG base:ok: Hopefully it works out for all the guys there and they don't get based in palmy or something:eek:

HB

[sexy time]

Alas some of us werent either worthy of getting the call for the rigourous selection process...

[haughtney1]

Once people stop bitching and moaning about this and that and remember that they have a job in an a/c with the koru on the tail, allbeit a 1900

Give your brain a chance mate :hmm: 4 days for a job on a 1900????????????????? ....that my friend is what is called a piss-take.

:hmm: No wonder the mythical eagle warrior STILL exists.....(I saw one today:yuk: )

[always inverted]

My brain gets plenty of chances thanks, but I'm not saying that I think that it is a good thing to have a 4 session interview but a job is a job, if you dont like the process or the company then dont apply, I dont know if I would get through the current interview...but hey thats all I'm saying, trying to be impartial.

[cowpatz]

Anyone care to shed a litttle light on what is done over those 4 days? Seems excessive and signs of an unrestrained HR division.

[haughtney1]

Four days for an assessment is a joke...plain and simple

I know that I would struggle to reach the lofty heights of an Eagle F/O if I had to go through a process thaaaaaaaaaat long:sad: (even though I've got BE200 & 350 time on my logbook)

Air NSN will hopefully change at some point.........but probably not soon:=

[propaganda]

Four days for an assessment is a joke...plain and simple
I know that I would struggle to reach the lofty heights of an Eagle F/O if I had to go through a process thaaaaaaaaaat long:sad: (even though I've got BE200 & 350 time on my logbook)
Air NSN will hopefully change at some point.........but probably not soon:=

Couldn't agree more......a short chat with the Chief Pilot...no HR physio crap,
A quick wizz round in the Sim....tried and tested ...should take 2 hrs max :ok:

[Thump & Go]

Master Caution - the Egos are landing........

[Hanz Blix]

Thats funny because I thought Air NSN had recently gone to a 2 day interview?! (not 2 hours) However if I am wrong accept my humble appologises.:\

HB

[nike]

with you thump.

[cyco]

With all the slow down in our beloved industry and the loss of jobs suffered by our mates of late, its a shame we have lost sight of the positives that the small amount of expansion being realised by Air Nelson and Eagle brings.

New planes mean new jobs and a 4 day interview can only mean one thing, that someone is interviewing, which can only mean that yet another lucky soul is soon to join this great fraternaty of ours.:D

[propaganda]

I've never heard of a turboprop regional airline...wasting so much time effort and money on selecting F/O's....there must be a reason.....was there a higher than normal failure rate previously ?, or are they involved in a new flight test programme for NASA......or is it the massive salary......or more likely a junior manager trying to justify their existance...;)

[mattyj]

.....was there a higher than normal failure rate previously ?,

At the initial interview level..YES
At the check to line level...YES
At the regular renewel level..YES
At ATPL issue..YES
Even experienced captains are known to have average checkrides

I have heard from Eag drivers that the checks are difficult at times and completely unrepresentive of modern two pilot crew operations.

I reckon there are two reasons..even when you operate in that environment on a daily basis, it doesn't expose you to things like assymetric holding, missed approaches on one engine..fire drills..emergency checklists. You must have to do serious study before the checkride.
Secondly..Students can't afford to train themselves to the level previously required for an Eagle driver nowadays, and in the old days there was so little movement, only the elite ever got through with many drivers who would've dropped out once, now getting a shot.

[Hanz Blix]

Surely hell isn't freezing over:}

[Cloud Cutter]

I think I saw a flying pig somewhere too......

But it's really happening this time, honest. Just a few more negotiations to make, a few more snags to sort out:rolleyes:

[always inverted]

Haughtney1,
I think that if you step off your soap box for a minute you will find that the process is 3 days but for the ones they think show proimse, on the 4th day those will go flying, the others can go home.
I really dont apreciate the scarcasim, as I was only previously trying to answer a question, I'm not getting into a slinging match as it's a waste of my time and for those reading the forum, as usuall, the forum has gone well off track.
Seeing as we are on the subject tho, how would you conduct the interviews, given the idiots that were high time previously and failed to meet the std for a check to line. Let me be clear, I am not talking about the peope who missed checks or commands, just the ones that got through the interviews and failed the check to line- please keep the scarcasim to a minimum if you must use any, other than that lets get this forum back to the original topic of the 4 Q300s.:=

[Cloud Cutter]

While we are off topic, did I hear something about some big wigs at Mt Cook having a chat to the lads in Brasil? Could chooky see jets yet?

[max rate]

:rolleyes: I think I just saw a whole squadron of pigs fly by.................:8

[Hanz Blix]

Heard from a good source a few days back that EMB190 was making a stop in chch for a demonstration.

[pakeha-boy]

HB...you know what mate.....a little competition never hurt anyone...and she,s not a bad product either......spent a little time in Rio myself...kiwis do well there mate!!....flashing the sword and playing "sir Lancecelot" is not a bad way to go!!!....KIWI...you bloody beauty...:} PB