Logging T/O & Ldgs

[jma]

After instructing dual circuits where I havent had to touch the controls, should I log the take-off & landings?

As PIC I have been doing this previously but I stopped the other day & have been giving it a bit of thought! Couldn't find this in LASORs or JAR-FCL.

Thanks

[Craggenmore]

I logged each T.O and Landing even if I did not touch the controls. I hope this is right. The tip-exing I will have to do if not correct does not bear thinking about :\

[Whopity]

Who cares? Art 35 tells you what you have to log, and it doesn't include T/Os and Ldgs, anything else is up to you.

[Jinkster]

As far as I am aware logging take off and landings doesnt mean anything at all......

[helilad]

Its still useful for keeping an eye the 90 day rule ,I think it says you need 3 t/o and landings before you can PIC with pax on board, ie students who dont hold a license or medical.Important as well for night stuff you do.

If your logbook is ever audited by CAA you have a better and more accurate detail of your flying and the students flying while under instruction.

Does this help ?

[tescoapp]

If instructing the student is counted as flight crew not pax. Even if they don't have a medical or license.

So the 90 day rules does not apply. Also if you don't have an IR you don't need to have one circuit at night for the same reason.

This is one of the discussion topics on the instructor seminars.

The only T/O and landings the caa seem to be worried about is the night qualification. Had a log book returned because in the remarks we hadn't put "x full stop landings" next to each flight with circuits. They only gave credit for 1 per sortie.

[jma]

Thanks for the replies.

Particularly interested in the comment that if instructing then the student is flight crew (not pax, which makes sense) so the 90 day rule doesnt then apply.

So when I recently headed back with a student to avoid contravening the night requirement we could have continued for longer as there were no pax on board!

I'm a new instructor so I havent yet attended a seminar.......is the material that is discussed during the seminars available in the meantime? Seems a shame to wait for another two years or so to hear about these things!

Cheers

[tescoapp]

Its not in writing. It was some bod from the CAA that discussed it.

The only thing you have to have to be able to use the twilight time is the night instructing restricting removed.

If you have that removed you haven't any worries.

If you start back after night time starts and you don't have this removed the student all of a sudden turns into a pax when the bell tolls. Then you would need to comply with the 90 day rules with one night landing if you don't have an IR.

You can actually do the night qualification as part of the PPL course. Most folk who go to the US do it as part of the 45 hours. One lad even did his XCQ at night but he was on a mission to get his 100hours night solo done before starting his cpl. I might add that now I think this was dubious from every point of view.

It is frowned apon extremely by most of the old and bold in the UK. They say that the 45 hours isn't really enough to cover the whole of the ppl course anyway which is true with most pilots who fly once a week with stoppages.

The main reason is that you have just removed 5 hours for the NRQ course which could have been an extra 6-700 quid in the bank. Most PPL's stay interested enough after the PPL to get a NRQ. Its not until afterwards they realise that it is next to useless in the UK unless they are willing to pay heaps of money for large airport landing fee's.

I wouldn't recomend getting the restriction removal though.

Night training risk factor is way high compared to day training and its 4-5 more stressful and tiring than day instructing .
You have just set yourself up for 12 hour + days all year round.
It's a ball ache sitting on the ground supervising the 2 hours solo.
You won't get much of a return if any on your 250 quid to get it removed.
The amount of night hours towards the magic 100 won't really be much over 2 years you will be lucky to get 40.