Service Pay - Comment by Boris Johnson [Archive]

anotherthing

26th Oct 2006, 08:03

Boris Johnson is seen by many as a bumbling fool. I think he's not too bad... although obviously from healthy stock he holds no airs and graces, does not think he is better than the common man (or at least that's how he comes across).

Compare him to the likes of Two A**es, sorry 2 Jags, who is a Labour man, supposedly the party of the people, and his attitude.

Good on Boris for writing this piece. Watch with interest as the Government strike at the speed of a somnabulent 3 toed sloth to remedy the situation.

endplay

26th Oct 2006, 09:17

Not wishing to denigrate Bumbling Boris and his attempts to better our lot but one or two areas of concern over his piece.

From AFPRB report 2006. Military salary for a new recruit is £12162. The lowest rate of pay post phase 2 training is £14323. Also, by implication she is a Servicewomen in the RAF. If so, why would she be required to vacate her quarter because her husband left her? If serving she would be entitled in her own right. And pension contributions?

This seems to be an attempt to have a pop at the government (no problems with that) but he has tried to raise the profile of his attack by cashing in on the current sympathy (?) for the Armed Forces and I do have a problem with being used to further the personal ambitions of any politico.

The lady in question would appear to be an ex dependant (wife of) who works for the MAC in supply flight. No doubt worthy of our sympathy but not RAF.

WPH

26th Oct 2006, 09:24

Not convinced the article refers to Armed Forces Service pay, rather MOD Civil Service pay. Our lowest pay band pays about 14K before tax and we obviously have a non-contributory pension scheme. But I'm all for rewarding our highly skilled under paid, hard-working civil servants with a well deserved pay rise. Anyway, she better hope the Union don't find out that she's currently working 45 hrs a week - she's supposed to be working to rule!

EndPlay beat me to it!

nigegilb

26th Oct 2006, 09:28

Endplay, agreed, not uniform. However, Boris is highlighting 2 important points. Brown has cleverly been buying votes by using state money for susidies. In doing so he has created a huge disincentive to work at the margin. He is making millions of people dependent on state coffers and more likely to vote Labour. Council Tax has risen because public sector pensions are not fully funded by Govt and yet he has also massively increased the public sector workforce. Never said he (Br00n), was not clever!

Molesworth Hold

26th Oct 2006, 10:23

Not convinced the article refers to Armed Forces Service pay, rather MOD Civil Service pay. Our lowest pay band pays about 14K before tax and we obviously have a non-contributory pension scheme.

Just to clarify a couple of points.
The lowest pay band in the Civil Service, E2 starts on £11.220.
My pension is contributory at 3.5%
The normal contracted hours are 37 working hours, there maybe some reference to 42 hours but this assumes a one hour unpaid lunch break.
Holidays are , 25 days, rising to 30 day paid holiday plus 10.5 days public and privilege holidays. Job security was also and incentive.

The downsides can be working with service people who resent the creeping civilianisation of 8-5 jobs. This is more apparent in the middle management who seem to get upset that they don't have the same powers over a civilian as they do a service person. To add some balance there are plenty of Civil Servants who are complete co*ks.

mutleyfour

26th Oct 2006, 10:50

Did Helicopter Lady provide those figures I wonder? Furthermore I notice there is no mention of CSA payments (or similar) from Hubby?

Wader2

26th Oct 2006, 11:07

The downsides can be working with service people who resent the creeping civilianisation of 8-5 jobs. This is more apparent in the middle management who seem to get upset that they don't have the same powers over a civilian as they do a service person.

Not a defence, just an observation. As they are paid 8-4.30, with flexitime allowed grudingly and overtime not at all, you can understand why some are apparently jobsworths.

It would be too easy to work through lunch, smile, and give a service. Unfortunately the treasury isn't paying them to :) .

Where they all go for lunch at the same time, assuming there is more than one, then that is an issue that management should tackle. Unfortunately they might counter that they all want to go to lunch/mess/gym or wherever as a social group.

Yes, uniformed middle management does not have much power except when it comes to a bonus recommendation. Even then it becomes a lottery and the best deserving may be disincentivised by being turned down after a good recommendation.

No, mixing lowly hourly paid workers with daily rate workers is always going to lead to friction laregly caused by not understanding the differences.

Kev Nurse

26th Oct 2006, 11:41

I find it sad that a person working full time within the RAF structure, as this lady is clearly doing, is not eligible for a Family Quarter. Her dependants are also the dependants of a serviceman, which adds to the disappointment. Civilianisation is creeping ahead throughout the Armed Forces and the DHE (DEFENCE HOUSING Executive) policy relating to eligibility should be reviewed.

Paul Wilson

26th Oct 2006, 11:50

From what was said about Council Tax at near the end of the article, it seems as though Council Tax is being deducted from her pay, for the Married Quarters she was in with hubby, despite the fact she has moved out. Definatly need more info to make an informed judgement though.
Although Hubby sounds like a bit of a :mad: though if he isn't making a substatial contribution to his kids' upbringing - even if it might be "off the books" - though this would be madness as maintenance payments are taken from pretax income, and the only benefit of going off books is when the maintenance would take your ex-partner over thresholds for benefit payments.

Wader2

26th Oct 2006, 12:30

I find it sad that a person working full time within the RAF structure, , is not eligible for a Family Quarter.

You have to be a member of the forces to get a quarter. It is not clear that she is a serving member or whether Boris is just using smoke and mirrors to effect.

What seems clear is that the quarter was in her husband's name. The husband leave - her entitlement ceases.

Hard rules and one where there may be room for some element of compassion, such as when the cessation of entitlement is a result of the husband's death in active service.

If every 'ex-wife of' was able to retain a quarter . . . no don't go there.

Hirsutesme

26th Oct 2006, 13:24

And yet, bizzarely, good old Boris voted everytime against the introduction of a national minimum wage. I just cant understand it:confused: :*

Wannabe1974

26th Oct 2006, 16:31

I'd be really interested to hear from someone on this forum who is a current serving member of the armed forces that feels that they are underpaid in someway.

Kev Nurse

26th Oct 2006, 17:06

Wader, I am aware that the lady does not carry a F1250. However, she is working within the RAF structure and, as such, is as much a part of the team as you or I.
Lets take the move of HQPTC to High Wycombe as an example. Married service person within HQPTC, owns a house in Gloucester and is then moved to High Wycombe. That service person is eligible to move into an FQ and rent out the house in Gloucester. A civilian person, also married and owns a house in Gloucester, working on next desk, cannot move into an FQ upon the move to High Wycombe. I'm not saying that MOD civvies are disadvantaged when faced with these problems (I'm sure there are allowances and compensation schemes), but I do think that DHE's eligibility policy could be widened to include the growing numbers of civilians in our ranks.
I made the point about the dependants because her family, although split up, is truly a Service family (mum and dad both working in/for the RAF). DHE should move with the times.

A2QFI

26th Oct 2006, 17:20

I'd be really interested to hear from someone on this forum who is a current serving member of the armed forces that feels that they are underpaid in someway.

Any Squaddie in Iraq for a start - but he probably can't get onto a computer to tell us! Pay recently calculated at £2 an hour when hours worked are calculated against monthly pay.

Saint Evil

26th Oct 2006, 21:03

Wannabe1974

26th Oct 2006, 21:28

Any Squaddie in Iraq for a start - but he probably can't get onto a computer to tell us! Pay recently calculated at £2 an hour when hours worked are calculated against monthly pay.

I seem to remember making a similar calculation about my own pay. I think the idea is a bit of a headline-grabber rather than reflecting reality. Yes, lots squaddies are doing too many tours out there. Yes, the conditions are awful and yes I do think they deserve much better support. But, averaged out, over a year, is that still a realistic calculation? And even more so when you factor in the enormous additional benefits? I don't know the answer. I just think that on the whole we're paid pretty well. Even at the most Junior OR band.
Most PVR surveys show that pay is not normally a factor for people leaving the services.

Kitbag

26th Oct 2006, 22:32

Wannabe

The enormous additional benefits you mention, care to educate me?

Pontius Navigator

27th Oct 2006, 07:07

The Civil Service will help people to move house if they are forced to move by the Civil Service. A friend of mine left Valley for Northolt and she was told if she could sell her house and buy a new one then the Civil Service would make up the losses or even buy the house in Valley.
Beats moving into a substandard quarter.

Kev Nurse, and their lies the rub. Indeed would an essentially civilian employee actually want to live inside a guarded and gated compound, one where friends and relatives have to book in at a guardroom after showing a passport or driving licence and then brave armed guards to get to visit them?

And the service family issue. Sorry. If there is a welfare issue the service has enough difficulty delivering a service to its own personnel and not the entire baggage train. There is SSAFA and RAFA and RAF Benevolent Fund. In this case I think housing was a factor not a potential solution. I think Boris made quite clear she does not want help or handouts she wants a proper wage.

ORAC

27th Oct 2006, 07:16

I think Boris made quite clear she does not want help or handouts she wants a proper wage. No, she just wants the thieving barst*rds to stop taking so much of it straight back in the form of one tax or another.

I´d be all in favour of raising tax thresholds to take a lot more of the poor out of the poverty trap whilst reducing various grants and allowances as an incentive to work. Labour works on the opposite premise with the aim of making those at the bottom beholden to them.

SirToppamHat

27th Oct 2006, 07:46

As endplay suggested way back, she may well be part of the MAC (Multi-Activity Contract) - in other words a civilian, working not as part of the Civil Service, but for a civilian company (eg Serco, McAlpine, ESS etc). She may have nothing to do with the Civil Service at all, let alone the RAF.

These days I'm pretty a-political. I don't trust any of them. However, I don't recall the Conservatives making too much noise about our pay when they were in power. Oh and please remind me who it was who sold off all the FQs for peanuts to the Japanese and agreed to keep releasing them at a rate of 10% per year for sale to the public? Some Conservative MP called Portillo, wasn't it? Labour are no better mind. Forcing us to close bases all over the place - how much is being paid out for SSFA in the High Wycombe area at the moment? When I was there, the going rate was about £1800 a month for a Sqn Ldr/Flt Lt. Must ... calm ... down. Must ... take ... medication.

Pontius Navigator

27th Oct 2006, 07:49

ORAC you sound like a mealy mouthed politician talking round the facts without admitting anything - not

Why don't you stand for parliament next time?

Safety_Helmut

27th Oct 2006, 07:59

I'd be really interested to hear from someone on this forum who is a current serving member of the armed forces that feels that they are underpaid in someway.
And even more so when you factor in the enormous additional benefits?
This is a joke, right ?

S_H

enginesuck

27th Oct 2006, 10:37

I'd be really interested to hear from someone on this forum who is a current serving member of the armed forces that feels that they are underpaid in someway.

Hi yes here me me me me

Propulsion/Airframe technician, 9.5 years experience on 25k a year. Ive had a job offer for nearly double that doing very much the same as I am now. Without getting mortared, doing gate guard and endless deployments.
What do you think I should do ??

dodgysootie

27th Oct 2006, 12:33

Enginesuck

I fully understand your predicament, to be honest my fine fellow Sootie, if your not in the "pension trap" (as I am) vote with your feet Pal, as you know there are already a multitude of PVR's at ISK going through at the moment. I'll even give you a reference!!

Sooties honour
DS

Mad_Mark

27th Oct 2006, 13:44

The Civil Service will help people to move house if they are forced to move by the Civil Service. A friend of mine left Valley for Northolt and she was told if she could sell her house and buy a new one then the Civil Service would make up the losses or even buy the house in Valley.
Beats moving into a substandard quarter.

OK, so can you clear this up for me?

Taking an example of 2 similar properties currently on the market, both the nearest of that type found to the particular RAF Stations. If said person sells a 3-bed mid-terraced house in Holyhead for £114,950 and buys a similar 3-bed mid-terraced house in Greenford for £284,950, will the Civil Service (for which read 'our taxes') pay the difference of £170,000?

MadMark!!! :mad:

Pontius Navigator

27th Oct 2006, 15:11

Oddly enough the October issue of Paperclips illustrates the benefits associated with a move. Not only that you you will recall that Tone has just addressed the same issue designating armed forces and critical public service officials as entitled to various assistances.

Wannabe1974

28th Oct 2006, 09:06

This is a joke, right ?

S_H

No. See below.

Wannabe

The enormous additional benefits you mention, care to educate me?

Certainly.

1. Armed Forces Pension - widely acknowledged to be the best available to anyone in the UK. Worth about 10% of your monthly wage, as we don't pay any contributions (standfast those in receipt of specialist pay who can make AVCs). Index linked and not based on a fund - so you cannot lose it.
2. Free medical and dental. Worth, depending on your age, somewhere between £40 and £100 a month.
3. Free travel to get you home as well as enormous discount on rail and coach travel for your whole family.
4. Interest free loans to put a deposit on a home.
5. Massively discounted, maintained family quarters.
6. Tax free bonuses for retention and now for Op Tours (ok I can see that not everyone will be delighted about claiming the latter).
7. Annual pay rises in line with inflation (I wonder how many private sector organisations do this? Just about none...).
8. Generous relocation packages.
9. Boarding School Allowance (just ask anyone who gets it how much this is worth - its loads).
10. Enormous help, on company time, to get qualifications above and beyond degree level.
11. Free use of gym and pool for the majority of people - worth anywhere between £40 and £100 a month.
12. Annual pay review board which takes into account factors of service life and almost always recommends a raise.

Hi yes here me me me me

Propulsion/Airframe technician, 9.5 years experience on 25k a year. Ive had a job offer for nearly double that doing very much the same as I am now. Without getting mortared, doing gate guard and endless deployments.
What do you think I should do ??

If thats the case, I'd leave and take the job offer! You were a volunteer right?
People are only worth what someone is prepared to pay them and it sounds like the RAF are undervaluing you. On the surface, seems a simple decision to me. Or you could get yourself promoted I suppose, if that's a possibility for you.

Thought of some more:
13. Enormous opportunity to carry out PAID adventurous training, around the world, entirely at your employer's expense.
14. Continuous pay, even when sick.
15. 30 days paid leave per year + 6 bank holidays. In civvy street, you're lucky to get 20.
16. PLUS post operational tour leave which is granted after you have effectively done what you are trained for.
17. The most generous resettlement opportunities I have ever heard of.
18. Time in your working week to enable you to keep physically fit.

I could go on....

geezerBJ

28th Oct 2006, 10:51

1. Armed Forces Pension
This isn't a gizzit from the Government, contributions are actually built in to our salaries.
Free medical
Doesn't everyone receive this? We are no different to civvies these days as the majority of treatment is provided by the NHS.
enormous discount on rail and coach travel for your whole family.
No, I have to pay for my railcard these days. Not much different to buying a family railcard for me ... which any civvy can do.
Massively discounted,maintained family quarters.
Which the last pay review board recommended rents should be brought into line with civilian equivalents. Have you actually tried to have anything done to your SFA since MHS have taken over ... ????
Tax free bonuses for retention
Who gets a tax free bonus ? I've never had one :confused:
IMHO the forces are being hugely let down by current government policy. Yes we are overworked, under resourced, under paid and taken advantage of.
If I wasn't so close to pension (that I have worked and paid for!) I would emigrate tomorrow.:)

Wannabe1974

28th Oct 2006, 11:15

If I wasn't so close to pension (that I have worked and paid for!) I would emigrate tomorrow.:)

In other words the generous pay, terms and conditions are keeping you from leaving? :}

Seriously though, I know we work bloody hard for the money (well, most people), but the fact remains that people stay in the services because they do not believe that they can get a better deal outside. As I said before, pay is very seldom a factor for people who opt to go outside.

Wyler

28th Oct 2006, 14:39

Sounds like a good offer.

What is the contract length? 6 months? a year? Bet it is no longer than 2. Does the contract include time off for study? Will they find/provide subsidised accom for you? Will your rent include all repairs, albeit slow and not top calss workmanship? Will they find a dentist for you or pay the monthly fee for a private one? What about sick pay? Will they contribute towards school fees if you want to send your kids to private school?

The grass always seems greener. I have just (literally) come back from visiting a friend in Muscat who works for a civvy company. His current contract (2 years) ends in Dec. He has been in 'negotiations' about a renewal, still no decision. They have said, so far, that if they renew they will be removing the comany car and looking to reduce his wages as the 'job review', carried out without his knowledge or input, has downgraded the post. They have also said they want to look at contract renewal every 6 months and not 2 years, as was the initial offer. So, he is overseas with 3 kids and may have to move back to the UK before Xmas. If he stays he will be forced to accept a much reduced offer, and one that can be binned/reduced further every 6 months.

He too left the RAF because he was fed up, crap pay, crap leadership etc. He now realises that there was a lot of good stuff as well and his initial decision was a bit hasty.

I wish you well, genuinely, but be VERY careful about accepting offers before dismissing what you already have.

As for Boris. Yet another outstanding example of a politician using half truths, smoke, mirrors and blatant ignorance to make a dodgy point.

enginesuck

28th Oct 2006, 14:47

I am not leaving, and I never intended to, My original post was intended to highlight the temptation which is grabbing a lot of good guys at the moment. I love my Job but with a Wife and a kid on the way I need the security... I just think that certain trades need their expertise recognised. Im getting paid the same as a cook at the end of the day....:ugh:

Wannabe1974

28th Oct 2006, 14:53

Wyler

28th Oct 2006, 14:56

Could not agree more with the last 2 posts.

vecvechookattack

29th Oct 2006, 10:34

How can this woman be labelled as Poor? She earns £12500 PA for goodness sake. She runs a car, holds down 2 jobs, pays her taxes, has her bins emptied regularly etc etc....how is that poverty?

Biggus

29th Oct 2006, 17:16

One technical definition of poverty (one of many, and not neccessarily mine!) is being in the bottom 10% of wage earners for that location/country/region etc.

If you use this definition it is impossible to eliminate poverty, and even if everyone in UK earned £1 million+ there would still be people 'living in poverty'!

SirPercyWare-Armitag

29th Oct 2006, 19:43

Wannabe1974

29th Oct 2006, 20:03

Wannabe,

I know freedom of speech exists and all that but would you mind not putting "we" in your posts as if you are a member of HM Forces please

Having just spent time with chaps returning from Afghanistan and Iraq with limbs missing and shrapnel still embedded in their bodies, it is fairly clear that they are extremely grateful for their Railcard. Especially after it went up to £12

"I forgot the biggest benefit of them all! Security. Can't think of many firms that offer you decades of guaranteed employment."

Guaranteed employment? Top tip. 11 November is coming up. Why not take a wander along to a Church on the Sunday? Take a seat. Listen to the service. Have a jolly old read of the names engraved on the war memorial.

Then get down on your knees and give thanks and stay there

I am a member of HM Forces. And I've seen enough of what you're talking about without feeling the need to go on about it thanks.

Is your solution to pay everyone a million quid on the basis that they might get shot? You have to accept that everyone in the armed forces, chooses that career. And like any other career, someone, somewhere, has to come up with a package of benefits. OURS (if indeed you are a fulltime member of HMAF, which somehow I doubt) is pretty good when added up.

I don't think this patronising drivel is adding anything to a debate on pay and conditions. Try the Daily Mail.

Ginseng

29th Oct 2006, 20:11

Are you serious?

The Daily Mail!

They make even more mistakes than I do!

Regards

Ginseng

Wannabe1974

29th Oct 2006, 20:14

Spell it right! I'm a Wannabe, I don't wannabee....
;)

Ginseng

29th Oct 2006, 20:19

Apologies.

Regards

Gosnig, the well knowm dislecksik.:)

Wader2

30th Oct 2006, 10:51

Some civilian comparators. I admit not all are available to all civilians buit they represent a selection which a prospective employee can chose as part of his job choice.

1. Armed Forces Pension - yes it is contributory at 7% albeit deducted from the headline pay.

2. Free medical and dental. Worth, depending on your age, somewhere between £40 and £100 a month.

Employers give BUPA.

3. Free travel to get you home as well as enormous discount on rail and coach travel for your whole family.
Metropolitian police get free travel.
Original Netwrok Rail employees get free first class travel.

4. Interest free loans to put a deposit on a home.
Bank employees get low cost loans.
Other employees can get advance of pay.

5. Massively discounted, maintained family quarters.
Yeah well.

6. Tax free bonuses for retention and now for Op Tours (ok I can see that not everyone will be delighted about claiming the latter).
Annual company bonus scheme, payable to all, related to company performance and often equivalent to one month's pay.

7. Annual pay rises in line with inflation (I wonder how many private sector organisations do this? Just about none...).
And other do and also right to negotiate own pay and conditions as responsibilities increase

8. Generous relocation packages.
Yes lots give that.

9. Boarding School Allowance (just ask anyone who gets it how much this is worth - its loads).
Available to some civilians too.

10. Enormous help, on company time, to get qualifications above and beyond degree level.
Met two employees undertaking OU degrees both fully funded.

11. Free use of gym and pool for the majority of people - worth anywhere between £40 and £100 a month.
Companies have sports and social clubs and subsidised memberships too.

12. Annual pay review board which takes into account factors of service life and almost always recommends a raise.
So?

The point is that not every job can be compared one with another. Merchant seamen get better leave and better pay and tax treatment. Not a few ex-servicemen have found this out on cruise ships as environmental officers.

Mmmmnice

30th Oct 2006, 11:22

As has been said before:
1. If the grass is greener, then move to a different field.
2. No-one is making anyone stay in the military (bar amortisation and the usual PVR notice periods)
A lot of the time the other fringe benefits (like a 2 min walk to work for instance) make the mil a good option. However....the current deployments featuring lots of actually doing what we train for (fighting, supporting fighting etc) make virtually every other job look much more attractive. Comparing hours worked on det vs pay is the simplest/cheapest form of manipulation of numbers to make up impressive headlines. The additional compensation that is on it's way (apparently - anyone seen my £700?) will go some way to offset the grim reality of getting shot at - but, in the long run, I'd settle for no bonus and no bullets.

WorkingHard

30th Oct 2006, 20:05

Wader2 - so how many jobs do you need in civvie street to equate to the ONE you have in the services? Met copper + train driver + bank clerk + + + + ???. I agree comparisons are not a good indicator but look at the GROSS annual pay of a middle ranking officer or airman, then add the tax free allowances and see what you can get in civvie street (without being shot at and bombed etc?)

PPRuNeUser0172

31st Oct 2006, 07:52

And your point is WorkingHard? the original post was about an SAC on not very much money, not a middle ranking officer or airman.

Are you saying we are paid too much?

Are you trying to be inflammatory (as usual)?

Taken from the Armed Forces Pay Review Board publication

In reaching its recommendations, the Review Body is to have regard to the following considerations:
• the need to recruit, retain and motivate suitably able and qualified people taking
account of the particular circumstances of Service life;
• Government policies for improving public services, including the requirement on the
Ministry of Defence to meet the output targets for the delivery of departmental
services;
• the funds available to the Ministry of Defence as set out in the Government’s
departmental expenditure limits; and
• the Government’s inflation target.
The Review Body shall have regard for the need for the pay of the Armed Forces to be broadly
comparable with pay levels in civilian life.

There you go WH I think that explains where our pay figures come from. I sincerely hope you are not suggesting that 'middle ranking airman/officers' are paid too much.

Come on man explain yourself

WorkingHard

31st Oct 2006, 08:04

No DS I was not intending to be inflamatory which is why I made the point that generally in civvie street you do not have various people trying to kill you. The comparison with other jobs is at best very tenuous and as others have said above there are many things in the services not found in civilian pay structures. I am not saying at all you are paid too much or too little, just that you cannot compare what you do with others. I see you are listed as a pilot, how many hours per annum do you fly and how does that compare with an EZY pilot for example? If the disatisfaction is running so high then find a role in life that suits you better. What keeps you there if pay and conditions are so poor? There is always a way out from the service is there not? Was the original post about an SAC? If so then the figures quoted were indeed very innacurate.

PPRuNeUser0172

31st Oct 2006, 08:18

I am more than happy with my pay and conditions thanks WH, it seems I may be in the minority but would not want to leave................yet!:ok:

Where in my post do I say that 'our' pay is poor?

You are right about the comparison being tenuous but for some the differences are smaller than others depending on how relevant your skills are outside the mob, eg pilot is a very easy one to compare in terms of pay and quality of life etc etc. To answer your question about how many hours I get compared to EZY, significantly less is the answer, but its quality, not quantity;)

Obviously you will have heard of the 'x' factor (not the pikey one on sat night) but the bit of pay we get to make our jobs more comparable with their civvy counterparts and supposedly alleviates the huge burden of going to hot sandy places.............

Bottom line is we all joined voluntarily and largely speaking can leave voluntarily if we see fit to do so.

Wannabe1974

31st Oct 2006, 17:01

I am more than happy with my pay and conditions thanks WH, it seems I may be in the minority but would not want to leave................yet!:ok:

I don't think you are in the minority. Just in the minority on PPrune...

Widger

1st Nov 2006, 13:19

Wanabee,

I think I could get most of the benefits you mantion from working with a company like NATS. The extra salary would go a considerable way to make up for those aspects that NATS didn't cover like quarters.

Getting back to the thread topic, I think Boris was really just emphasising how large our tax burden is and I agree. Everything from National Insurance to Road Tax, Fuel Tax, Insurance Tax, AirportTax, VAT, combined with the rising cost of most utilities has led to an almost unbearable situation. (See threads on JB about UK economy). I am reasonably comfortable (Wife works) but I still struggle to meet the bills every month. I cannot imagine how the subject of Boris' tirade can live on what she earns. There is a small minority in this country who earn vastly inflated amounts and obscene bonuses (yes I am jealous), a not inconsiderable minority of leeches (see Daily Mail for details), sucking away all the money we pay in tax and a huge majority of earners who are struggling to make ends meet.

I feel it..so others must!:(

peppermint_jam

2nd Nov 2006, 18:47

Though I'd add my 2 pence to this discussion.

I've been in just under 10 years and am one of the dying breed of J/T's left in the RAF. My annual wage on level 9 works out to about 25.5 k per year. I personally don't think that is a bad wage at all. Couple that with all the afore mentioned perks, like free medical and dental care, access to and time off for just about any sport you can imagine, the chance to go around the world as I have been on some awesome Expeds, married quarters for the familily types, and all the free clothes you can imagine! (as long as you like blue or green!) I also know that there is no chance of me rocking up to work on a monday to be handed my P45 due to staff cuts or the like. I enjoy my job, i can quite easily pay my mortgage and car loan on my wage. Don't get me wrong, there is the 2 months i do in the desert every year and guard etc, but you have to take the rough with the smooth.

I've seen alot of damn good techies PVR in the last few years, all ranks and trades, and I think there's going to be at least 3 or 4 more on the Sqn before the year is out. It's a shame to lose the good guys, when the deadwood seems to remain! I guess this job doesn't suit everyone, but it suits me just fine!

You can get as much or as little out of the Forces as you choose to, I'm sure that I could find a job that paid more in civvy street, but i doubt I'd be as happy!

I was just wandering though, who looks after the two bin lids when she goes to work on the weekends?

Originally Posted by enginesuck http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2933860#post2933860)
Im getting paid the same as a cook at the end of the day....

Careful mate, they don't like being called cooks, I do enjoy asking them to chef me some eggs in the mess though!

P_J

WorkingHard

2nd Nov 2006, 18:54

PJ - how wondeful to hear another who says he is basically happy with his lot. Good on yer! Is the £25k you quoted total gross taxable and do you have any other allowances not included in that?

peppermint_jam

2nd Nov 2006, 22:29

PJ - how wondeful to hear another who says he is basically happy with his lot. Good on yer! Is the £25k you quoted total gross taxable and do you have any other allowances not included in that?

Working hard, The only thing I forgot to mention is that I get home to duty money. I live about 30 miles away from where I am stationed, and off the top of my head I get around 150 pound (in the gulf and this American machine has no damn pound sign!) towards my petrol costs.

The 25K is gross taxable, with my home to duty money on top of my wages, after tax, National Insurance and all other deductions I clear just over 1800 per month.