JAA FI onto UK BCPL(R) ?

[Talkdownman]

Learned colleagues, I have a 'grandfather rights' UK BCPL (Restricted) with FI rating [ie. pre-Oct 1988 PPL with AFI]. I have been offered an FI position on condition that I 'acquire a JAA FI rating'. My BCPL FI 3-year validity ceased in 2003 therefore I am a bit out of touch, and currently a stranger to the FI & E forum. Can anybody tell me if it is possible and, if so, what I have to do to fix it? Is it hidden somewhere in LASORS ?

MTIA!

[BillieBob]

My understanding of the deal when JAR-FCL was introduced was, basically, that you keep what you've got but if you want anything else you comply with JAR. The BCPL, especially the 'grandfather' version, is a peculiarly UK licence, which is not recognised by the JAA.

In other words, if you want a JAA FI rating you must pass, at least, the JAA CPL theoretical knowledge exams, just like everyone else.


Just like BEagle, I disassociate myself from any random advertising that may attach itself to this post

[Talkdownman]

......if you want a JAA FI rating you must pass, at least, the JAA CPL theoretical knowledge exams.........
Thanks for that, BillieBob. That is what I feared, unless anybody else knows differently.

[BEagle]

1. Renew your BCPL(R) and associated ratings. Only difference nowadays being that the licence lasts for 5 years, not 10 (the CAA sneaked that in without much warning) and you need a JAA Class 1 medical certificate (again, thanks to an ar$e decision by the CAA).

2. Renew your Flying Instructor Rating and complete the JAA 'declaration of knowledge' form.

You should then be permitted to teach to PPL(A) level and receive remuneration.

There is no obligation to convert to a JAA licence and the CAA cannot 'take away' your grandfather rights.

Many people still teach on BCPL(R)s, incidentally. And I have never heard of any BCPL(R) holder having to sit the CPL exams to continue instructing; the JAA 'declaration of knowledge' is simple and strsaightforward and you sign as having understood the changes introduced by JAR-FCL.



I do not endorse any goods or services described in any advertising which may have been included in this post without my agreement.

[Talkdownman]

BEagle, thanks, I knew it wouldn't be long before you came along with your expert guidance.

1. is completed, new (sneaky) 5 year licence in tatty blue cover along with new JAA Class 1 Med (instead of old Class 2, sneaky again) and associated ratings valid. So that box ticked, thanks.

2. Seminar and FIE test planned. Have signed the JAA 'declaration of knowledge' before via the (now defunct) FTO. Will I have to re-submit that? I recall guidance in an AIC, number of which is not known, any ideas?

3. Not take the JAA CPL theoretical knowledge exams after all. Great!

4. Teach to PPL(A) level and receive remuneration. I hope that it has gone up from 6 pounds fifty per flying hour...............

Thanks, both.

[BEagle]

From LASORS Section H1.14:

For a FI(A) rating that has expired by more than 5
years, application should be sent to PLD for
endorsement together with the appropriate fee as per
Scheme of Charges. In addition, applicants will also be
required to submit completed form SRG\1153 to
demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Authority that
knowledge of the relevant parts of JAR-FCL and
JAR-OPS has been acquired.

An existing FI who has not previously passed CPL level
examinations whose FI rating has expired by more than
5 years will be required to pass the JAR-CPL
theoretical knowledge examination before the FI rating
can be renewed.

Since your FI rating only expired in 2003, you clearly do NOT need to sit the CPL exams. Neither do you need to send off anything to the CAA - the FTO conducting your renewal should be able to sign the Rating page in your licence and you should be able to instruct immediately after it has been signed.

As you were instructing in 2003, you would have signed the JAA declaration; there is no need to do so again.


I do not endorse any goods or services described in any advertising which may have been included in this post without my agreement.

[Talkdownman]

Case closed, then. Thanks very much, all !

[Whopity]

A point to note is that your instructor rating when renewed will still be a UK National FI rating not a JAA FI rating! Because UK ratings are now maintained to JAA standards that will not preclude you from instructing for a JAA rating in the UK. You can only get a JAA rating on a JAA Licence!

[BEagle]

What on earth are you on about, M..., err, 'Whopity'?

Talkdownman was instructing to your CAA-accepted JAR-FCL requirements until 2003 - all he is doing is renewing his FI Rating.

Of course his licence probably isn't recognised outside the UK - but inside the UK any flight instruction he gives will meet the JAA requirements you lot have already agreed to.

[Whopity]

RTFQ

I have been offered an FI position on condition that I 'acquire a JAA FI rating'He will have a UK FI rating not a JAA FI rating!!!!! It may not make any difference but the job could be somwhere else in JAA land! He does say Locations; Various!

[BillieBob]

Precisely my point. It is not possible to attach a JAA rating to a purely national licence, although it is possible to attach a national rating issued in accordance with JAA requirements.

[BEagle]

OK, Whopity, I see what you mean. ISHRTFQ!

But, as you lot have, quite appallingly, accepted JAR-FCL PPL(A) flight training conducted by FIs who do not even hold national FI Ratings issued in accordance with JAR-FCL at certain PPL farms in the USandA as long as they are 'under the supervision of a JAA FI' (oh yes, of course that happens, doesn't it....:rolleyes:), surely this is a moot point?