Obtaining ATC licence by possibly underhand means

[Co ordination unaffected]

I remember a while back, when I was at the college, that it was alleged that some cadets had obtained the scripts for summative exercises. I left shortly afterwards, but still wonder if anything became of it.

PM me if you'd rather.

[Gonzo]

Couldn't possibly comment......... :suspect:

Oh, and it wasn't me!

[AlanM]

Blimey - when I was there they used to be kept in a filing cabinet - and the odd person (and I mean ODD!) was seen to be reading them. The folders were then kept shut.

Having said that though, it doesn't matter that much - esp on radar as a whole sim run can change with one heading or level in a different order

(oh and one of those caught is now an LCE..........)

[Jerricho]

Oh yes you could Gonze.

I'm sure you could come up with names as well.............. ;)

(It wasn't just scripts, it was strips as well. They took them home and memorised both)

[radarman]

In the days of the 'Car Boot' course we used to practice every fortnight on the actual nav plots used in the exam. And with all the theory exams based on a question bank, all you had to do was get hold of the old exam papers, learn the answers off parrot fashion and... Hey Presto, a yellow peril (with posh yellow laces!) was yours for the asking. Well, not quite - you still had to put up a reasonable performance in the practicals. (But we had seen them previously too. Only the callsigns had been changed.) Oh for the good old days :)

[CUNIM]

Well you could cheat at the exams maybe, but you would never get past the practical field training and validate. If you are going to play - don't play at being a controller - safety of people comes first always:mad:

[360BakTrak]

Hmmm.......stealing and reading scripts wasn't just taking place on my course then?! I recall that some students had some sort of pc-based radar sim, to assist with the radar skills course, loaned to them by a certain instructor there too......the 5 of you know who you are!!!!:E :=

[Gonzo]

360BT,

Many PC-based ATC radar sims were/are available for free, so I don't think that it's underhand in any way for students to take advantage of that.

[360BakTrak]

IIRC it was software owned by CATC and was therefore not for general use. This was, however, a long time ago so maybe that was the case.

[Gonzo]

Oh, ok, I stand corrected! :}

[ATCO2]

Hi everybody,

When we are talking about exams, I want someone of you send me an example of the written test that trainees in your country have to pass for the any of ratings (ADI,ADV,APP,APS/RAD etc.) I want to compare it with some exams in my country.

I will appreciate if you do it.

Best regards

[Jerricho]

Question 1:

Aircraft ABC is at the same altitude and on the exact reciprocal track to Aircraft XYZ.

Is this

A) A good thing

B) A bad thing

C) They are outside controlled airspace, who cares.

[jumpuFOKKERjump]

There was a bloke that went throught ATC SKOOL about the same time as me who got stuck in the simulator for months during his field training with nothing to do but do unsupervised sim runs on the sector he was to be trained on when the sim wasn't doing anything else. In no short time he had memorised all the available exercises & reinforced any and all bad habits he had to a formidable degree, leading to a jaw-dropping experience for his trainer when the real training program commenced.

"Womble242, request FL370."

"Womble242, not available due crossing traffic."

(trainer) "What traffic?"

"Bungair11, out of Blergle. He doesn't depart for 10 minutes so we don't have a strip yet..."

[Jerricho]

Hey Plazbot, wasn't there a guy on your course who, in the simulator, would listen to what the person next to him would do and copy it word for word..........and somebody set him up by issuing a toally bogus clearance that he "used" and repeated?

[tobzalp]

Yeah but as expected he got sorted out in the field. Not surprising. Prick never paid his share of the taxi coming back from the pub. What goes around, comes around.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

This thread saddens me as there are obviously "controllers" out there who probably can't spell "professionalism", let alone practice it. How would they feel if they knew that the captain of the aircraft they were on had obtained his licence by deception? I trust that they get their come uppence on-station and receive lifetime bans (some hope nowadays).

When I trained at Hurn the examining branch steadfastly withheld details of questions and I see no good reason to change that. If you need to cheat you're no bl**dy good.

[chevvron]

A certain person in examining branch once told me how he'd gone to an airfield in the south of England to do a validation board and recognised the candidates face, but not his name. A quick check of his records confirmed he'd given this guy a board at an entirely different airfield some time previously, and the guy had then used a totally different name! Whether he actually had two licences, or was 'standing in' for someone else I don't know.

[Dances with Boffins]

CATC are aware that there were "hooky" versions of summative exercises in the early courses in circulation. Various small but devious changes were then made to the summative ex's so that anyone trying to perform a "rehearsed" run would give themselves away. :mad:
Hell and damnation was then positioned on high, ready to drop upon the unholy.:E

Small and devious changes will continue to be made to render any future attempts futile. The entire training system is under re-write now. If anyone has a simulator at home that can run Advanced runs, tell NATS. It must be a pretty fancy bit of kit...

[Gonzo]

DwB,

I believe the originator of the thread is referring to people who used to take the scripts and strips for 'tomorrow's' exercises home the day before and practice them to spot confliction points.

[Jerricho]

Or the individual who knew exactly what time and what aircraft would be stopping just inside the LLZ sensitive area in the LVP exercises.

[bottom rung]

Not guilty m'lud....
But I made great use of the "Question Bank" for the oral boards though.... surely this is just as underhand?

[DirtyStopout]

Is use of a question bank really underhand? In my experience looking at a comprehensive question bank pretty much covers both MATS 1&2, therefore making you go and read up on both and know pretty much everything you could be asked.

What it highlights is the style and type of question you will be asked. It's one thing knowing the questions, but you have to know the answers, whether you know what you may be asked or not.

I don't think there has ever been a qustion bank that tells a trainee that there are only a few topics that they need to learn to get through!

At the college for me the biggest indicator of what you may be asked was never a question bank, but a knowledge that certain instructors had 'pet' subjects like Met, ATSOCA, etc and brushing up on those was always more invaluable than any question bank!

[Dances with Boffins]

Gonz

The little buggers have got even more devious than when you came through :ugh:

[Spamcan defender]

On the subject of question banks, all the good ATPL ground schools have them for their students to study. Hell, you even get the 'confusers' for PPL etc. I dont see how a question bank could be deemed underhand when our 'customers' more than likely used them at some stage to get their ATPL's in the first place. TBH, I probably would never have passed my Air Law exam for my PPL had I not had the confuser :eek:

:ok: :ok:

However, ATC is much the same...There are only a finite amount of questions that can be asked. For someone to put together a list of these questions to aid their study shows initiative.

Spamcan